Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea/Archive 1

Welcome!
Congrats on forming a WikiProject! I'm considering placing my name on the participants list, joining the Project, but as a Japanese studies major, I'm not sure how much I could contribute. Nevertheless, I do intend to continue cleaning up & expanding the articles on the Imjin War, and defending Korea's involvement in the early cultural development of Japan. If anything should come up that I can somehow help out with, please feel free to give a shout. Good luck! Keep up the good fight! LordAmeth 05:00, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Korea
Again, thanks for the support guys. Also thank you to LordAmeth for a great intro for this Wikirproject. I hope this project page can start becoming a lot better. Good friend100 22:00, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

template
Calling all interested editors: Currently, we are discussing what picture to use as the template picture. Several are being debated. Currently, the Gyeongbokgung picture is being used.

Also, there are several candidates for the template. If anyone has any suggestions or comments, please list below. Remember to state what template you support. Good friend100 01:47, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It seems there are only two users (maybe 3?) but I will vote anyways!!! yay!


 * My Gyeongbokgung Print: this is print of Gyeongbokgung. I equally support all pics, but I like this one especially b/c of its high contrast. It looks really nice at small resolution. (Wikimachine 02:14, 22 September 2006 (UTC))


 * The templates would look nicer if you merged part of the Portal: Korea template into it. What I mean by "part" is the "tasks you can help with" kind of thing. It will make the template look larger. One reason why the current template looks awkward is that the picture is really large, but there are not enough contents in the template itself for the template to be artistically proportioned. (Wikimachine 02:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC))

I agree with you. If you can merge the portal and wikiproject template together, that will make it better. Good friend100 02:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Question: Why not simply add the WikiProject to korean? It seems to me that any Talk page "within the scope of WikiProject Korea" is also within the general scope of Coreana. Furthermore, hundreds (thousands?) of articles have already been tagged with korean; so you can save a lot of work by simply changing that template slightly. Also that would avoid havng two gigantic redundant templates on top of each other. Cheers, -- Visviva 04:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I've just followed my own advice and added it under the "How you can help" section. Is that sufficient?  -- Visviva 04:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the advice. I am not really good with templates but I hope we can start improving articles =) Good friend100 17:04, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

general overview
Hello everybody, as more editors decide to join, I would like to inform you of the priorities we have on Wikiproject Korea.


 * Cleanup to do list
 * vote on template (remember to thank Wikimachie for helping out)
 * start working on new articles!

thanks Good friend100 19:00, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

basics
We are very limited. First off, our quantity of members is too small yet to make a signicant impact and growth on Korea-related articles. I suggest we ask others (NOT advertise) if interested (escpecially willing) to join WikiProject Korea.

And, how do you create articles?

I see that there is a Balhae article, which also needs improvement, but, there is no article for Daejoyoung, the founder of Goguryeo Balhae. Thanks Oyo321 02:55, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oyo321, to create an article, search for the title you'd like to use. If the article truly does not yet exist, a page will appear saying that there are no search results. This page will provide you with the option of creating the page you searched for by following a redlink of the article title. Hope that helps! -Fsotrain09 00:19, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You are welcome and encouraged to create new articles, in the manner Fsotrain09 describes. However, it would be appreciated if you first familiarize yourself with Naming conventions (Korean), as well as Manual of Style (Korea-related articles).  These help us to create consistent articles without duplication.  For instance, you will find the article on the founder of Balhae at Go of Balhae, in accord with the standard naming conventions.  Cheers, -- Visviva 01:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I'll keep it in mind. Oyo321 03:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Yu Seong-ryong
Yu Seong-ryong

Does anyone know a source for this person? I want to write an article on him but cannont find any information. Good friend100 14:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Although it's not a reliable source in itself, the Korean Wikipedia article looks like a good place to start... Aside from that, any Korean encyclopedia or biographical dictionary should provide adequate refs for a good starter article. For instance, Naver, Empas (Empas is preferable since it actually cites its sources)...
 * I'm not sure where one would turn for a good English-language resource, though. The (incorrect) romanization of his name as Yu Songnyong seems to be quite common. See Google results.   I see that his Jingbirok ("Book of Corrections") has been translated into English; see .  That might have some good biographical info in it, if you can find a copy.
 * Hope that's somewhat helpful. Cheers, -- Visviva 02:47, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Pictures for Japanese General Government Building, Seoul
Do we need more? Tell me the kinds of pictures we need, and I'll find them after Chuseok (Lunar Thanksgiving) --General Tiger 17:17, 6 October 2006 (Korean Standard Time)


 * Thanks for your support. We really need pictures for Joseon, Imjin War or Hideyoshi's invasions of Korea. Good friend100 20:04, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * All right, just tell me the type of pictures we need, and writit in my talk page. I can't go and just look for any pictures, we need pics which will help the Korean Articles be featured. Also, do we need any more for the Japanese General Government Building, Seoul? -- General Tiger 04:15, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Needed pictures in general
I'll be gathering pictures for articles, and give the URL link for them. If you need any, just contact me for requests.

Taking a leaf from WikiProject Japan?
Why don't we systemize all Korean articles like WikiProject Japan?


 * Yes, I'd like to model Wikiproject Japan. They have made it very good over there. Good friend100 20:03, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I've set up korean to auto-categorize by importance and assessed quality. The arrangement is a little simpler than the Japan template; you just enter the quality for the first parameter and the importance for the second.  For the time being, I've left off the "unassessed" and "undefined importance" cats, since these don't seem to serve any useful purpose.  Please feel free to make use of this setup, and suggest tweaks to that template or the underlying assessment scales.  Cheers, -- Visviva 14:33, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Naming Problems
I believe we need to beef up our support of our articles which are being attacked(?) by those who advocate POV names.

I think that the Imjin War isn't a big issue, but we need to support Baekdusan, Cheonji, and the like. Please send your support for these and such other pages. -- General Tiger 04:15, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I also believe in opposing POV names. Please take an objective look at the issues raised by both sides on those pages instead of blindly supporting. I strongly believe that my proposals are based on legitimate reasons such as notability. Note that I am initiating discussions on moving both pages, while General Tiger simply did so without discussion, and has argued for moves on the basis of POV reasons. --Yuje 06:06, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I should say I've never blindly supported anything. Look to my post at the Imjin War, and you'll find that I changed my thoughts for the current version of the title. Also, most of your searches, if we look into it, contains unrelated hits (like the same thing as the Taekwondo Chonji hits) I've also been rebutting you searches with my own. Also, post these type of messages at my talk page, will you?-- General Tiger 06:18, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, you accused me of advocating POV names on this page. You asked for support from users from this board, so I simply posted a statement asking those same users to look at the issue in an objective way.--Yuje 07:46, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yuje this is the wrong place and wrong time to be discussing your "arguments." Please continue in your individual home pages. Oyo321 02:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Accused of being a puppet
Check my page. Who the heck is Appleby? Also, the accuser seems suspisious. How do I get off?


 * Appleby was a sensible editor here at Wikipedia before you signed an account. Appleby was actually a very capable editor at Korea and Japan related articles. Unfortunately he was a sockpuppeteer and got blocked from Wikipedia.


 * By accusing you, somebody might think you are acting like Appleby, your IP address is the same (if Appleby edited from his own computer), or if your behavior is a lot like Appleby. If you are blocked, take your case to WP:APB if you feel that the block is unjustified. Good friend100 01:51, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Moving/Redirecting
In trying to improve the Sujeonggwa article, I'm trying to make it more accessible by making nonexistent pages like "Sujeongkwa" or "Soojonggwa" redirect to it. Can anyone tell me how to do a redirect? = Kit eS  tring = 01:21, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Ask at the Korea talk page or something where many people see your question. Good friend100 01:52, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Go the page you want to create as a redirect, and enter the text " #REDIRECTSujeonggwa ".  Save the page.   Congratulations!  You've created a redirect.  -- Visviva 06:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

General
General Uljimunduk-is there even an article on him? I don't think there is one. If there is none, I think Wikiproject Korea should put some serious effort to creating "Uljimunduk" a prominent Goguryeo general. Oyo321 05:48, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It really helps if you familiarize yourself with the Revised Romanization of Korean as well as Naming conventions (Korean) ... the article can be found at Eulji Mundeok, and I have created Uljimunduk as a redirect. -- Visviva 06:34, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Ahh, heh. I see. Thank you again. Oyo321 01:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Template(s)

 * 1) Created Template:WikiProject Korea.  In the future, to add this to articles, please use , rather than pasting the table code directly onto the talk page.  That will make future updates of the template much easier to effect.  Thanks!  -- Visviva 06:38, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) Created Template:Koralt, which creates a grid of various spelling/capitalization/punctuation alternatives for Korean names.   The number of possibilities this creates is somewhat frightening; if we really want to create that many redirects for most pages (do we?) we might consider getting a bot for the task.  This is an addition to the existing suite of tools like Template:Korean mountain names which help with the creation of suitable redirects and/or dab pages. Suggestions for additional alternate-name templates are welcome.  -- Visviva 09:25, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Assessment
The current assessment scales for quality and importance could probably use some fine-tuning ... they were just put together to give us a starting point.

In particular, I was thinking of adding a ranking called "Unstable" to the quality scale; this would go on articles that are subject to recurrent POV wars, and which are therefore difficult to assess in the normal fashion. Many of these (Dokdo and Sea of Japan naming dispute come to mind) are actually of a fairly high encyclopedic standard, at least occasionally, since the recurrent disputes lead to closer attention from the community and closer scrutiny under WP:V... on the other hand, trying to raise them to FA or even GA standard seems to be unrealistic unless a strong consensus can be forged among all good-faith editors. -- Visviva 09:35, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Not about any sort of system, but just a note in general about North Korea-related articles. They tend to either lack sources altogether, have many statements that need citation, and/or use embedded links, which don't look all that encyclopedic. Could the Project make it a goal to improve this situation? I'm more than willing to help. -Fsotrain09 18:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree that improving North Korean related articles is a goal. However, it is very hard to get information since North Korea is very secretive about their activities and political history.

Visviva, thanks for the assessment scales. There are several important articles to assess, and I agree that "unstable" should be one. Definitely Dokdo should be tagged with that assessment. Good friend100 02:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid the articles about the North aren't that much different from the articles about the South in this respect... however I would be delighted to participate in an effort to improve the quality & scope of our NK coverage. Might I suggest that we create "working groups" within this project, to focus on specific areas like this? -- Visviva 08:39, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that one of the goals of the WikiProject Korea should be to make Korean articles more like encyclopediatic articles. It's ridiculous to talk about games or movies made about Admiral Yi in his article. Imagine a section designated just for that sort of junk for any significant historical leaders like George Washington, Martin Luther King, Jr., etc. Unimaginable. (Wikimachine 01:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC))


 * Actually, "X in popular culture" is not an uncommon section for major historical figures. Even Martin Luther King, Jr. has one.  :-)  I do agree that it has gotten out of hand in some articles; for figures like Yi Sun-sin we might consider creating a spinoff article just for this aspect of the topic, as has recently been proposed for Confucius. -- Visviva 06:44, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Gwangaeto the Great
It is stated that Gwangaeto the Great died of a disease that is not specified. Did not Gwangaeto the Great die in battle? Oyo321 04:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * He died from a disease. -- General Tiger


 * Is there any evidence? Oyo321 05:04, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The Samguk Sagi just says that he died, it doesn't specify how:  . Neither does Encyber or KoreanDB.  Presumably it *would* be mentioned if he had died in battle, so it seems likely that he did die of disease... however, it would be nice to have a source for that. -- Visviva 05:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I've read that he died of an arrow. Perhaps it was both-an arrow wound that caused an infection that led to a disease and then death. Maybe. Thanks for the research too. Oyo321 01:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Userbox

 * As noted on the project page I've created a userbox for participants in this project. I might not be super-technical when it comes to boxes so if anyone spots any problems let me know. It also puts you in Category:WikiProject Korea participants.  Dei zio  talk 01:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Oyo321 01:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * My pleasure :)  Dei zio  talk 01:59, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! I noticed that you used the pic that I formed. (Wikimachine 03:25, 25 October 2006 (UTC))
 * I did, it's cool.  Dei zio  talk 16:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Focus weeks
I saw that in some WikiProjects, like WikiProject Anime, there are "focus"es. For example, there was a "Neon Genesis Evangelion week" where they completely peer reviewed the entire article. I think that we need to do that.

Especially Korean articles... they are usually messed up by anonymous Korean users who have poor English. So, in major articles, our efforts are muddled up.

Take a look at Imjin War. It's the worst looking article, even though users like Good friend100 have spent countless hours in order to improve it.

I think that we need to have a Imjin War week where we make Imjin War so good that there's no way it can't become a featured article. Then, any anonymous changes can be fixed or updated in relation to the peer reviewed state as the benchmark. (Wikimachine 03:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC))

Project directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 15:06, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the update. I do wonder if Wikiproject Korea will be as useful as Portal:Korea, which tends to become a parallel version of it. Good friend100 02:45, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * There shouldn't be any overlap between the two; a portal is simply an attractive entry-point for outside users, while a WikiProject is for coordinating work among active editors. However, people do tend to use Portal talk:Korea for purposes unrelated to the portal itself.  We could, of course, nip that in the bud by redirecting that page to this one.  :-)  Not sure if that's a great idea, though. -- Visviva 13:36, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Subway infoboxes
I've been working on infoboxes for Seoul subway stations. The prototype is finished,. It has 6 parameters, all of which are optional. This means that if a station is on 2 or more lines a full infobox for one line can be included and additional infoboxes as necessary which just hold the correct color and surrounding stations but not the full name etc. again. This template is now in action at Seoul Grand Park Station. Let me know if you like it and can see anything that can be improved or want help with using it. I'll update progress here.  Dei zio  talk 21:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Templates for the other lines are up, just substitute "4" with numbers 1 thru 8, or "line 4" for "Bundang line". Instructions are on the talk pages of each template.  Dei zio  talk 21:46, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the organization. Several articles on railway related articles in Korea are not so informative. Good friend100 02:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Articles for all kun
The following North Korean kun currently have articles: Sonbong, Samjiyon, Nyongbyon, Kilchu. --Reuben 07:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, guess we've got a lot of work ahead of us. I've added a few more; as I go forward, I'm probably going to follow the model I've used on Kyongsong (North Korea):  translate from the KO version, add infobox, and append Template:Baekgwa so that we have a notion of the coverage that's out there.  It is problematic that most of the KO articles are unsourced... -- Visviva 03:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks good! The "administrative divisions" link is to Administrative divisions of South Korea, though.  --Reuben 06:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Heh heh... fixed now. -- Visviva 14:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the status report, Reuben. And also for being so kind as to suggest that I have a "scheme." I'm afraid my own practice in naming has been less than consistent. Actually, in view of the fact that North Korea does not use diacritics in its MR-based system, I think we need to revisit some provisions of Naming conventions (Korean)... since we follow the South Korean system more or less to the letter, at least for administrative divs, it only makes sense that we should do the same for North Korea. That's a question for Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Korean), of course -- a page where I recently advocated exactly the opposite approach. Ah well, live and learn. :-) -- Visviva 14:18, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Wow, I see you finished off North Hamgyong. Awesome!  --Reuben 17:58, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Current status: have stubbed out all secondary divs in the eastern coastal provinces (Kangwon and the Hamgyongs). I reckon Ryanggang and Chagang are next, at least for me, then down the west side. -- Visviva 15:52, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Sinanju
Is Sinanju a significant place? It gets some Korean War-related hits on Google, but it doesn't show up on the list of si or gun. Perhaps it's just an ŭp or a tong? --Reuben 08:57, 6 November 2006 (UTC)