Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea/Archive 13

[Propaganda or Valid Information]
In reading all of the general and more specific articles on DPR of N. Korea, many subjects such as education and literacy do not correspond to independent reports of visitors. IE: close to 100% literacy seems barely possible, article reports of grade attainment and the statement that "English and Russian were required subjects from middle school" is both uncorroborated and inconsistent. A recent book a woman, Suki Kim, who spent two years teaching in an elite secondary school said that "the internet was unknown to these students" which implies that the vast compendium of English language sources would also be unavailable. The is no logic to requiring English comprehension if the state is excercising strict control of information to their population.

Several articles on this subject in Wikipedia seem more like the official line of the DPR, without even a strong caveat that this is the case. An example is the sentence that "heuristic education methods are used." The word sounds like pragmatism but with only a bare sentence as a source, it is meaningless to readers. This line, and others, were from something called "Country Studies" from the Library of Congress, which does not constitute inherently valid reports for this encyclopedia

In a closed society such as DPR of N.K. certain events such as their famines, because of international aid can be researched and reported with confidence of validity. Educational methods, literacy based on internal surveys, and other data that are subjects of propaganda ministries even in democracies should not be presented as factual in the absence of independent validation. Arodb (talk) 17:25, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not getting your point; (Maybe because I don't edit N.Korea related articles?) If you think something is propaganda, I think you should be WP:BOLD to fix it, AFD, etc. &mdash; Revi 17:43, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * The paragraph on education in North Korea seems to be a reasonable collection of cited facts, except for the sentence on heuristics, which is brief to the point of misrepresenting the cited source. Also, given that the paragraph on "heuristics" in the cited source is largely in quotation marks, rather than in the source's voice, a better source is probably needed.  If you have sources that refute the claim that there is 100% literacy, or that English and Russian language instruction is compulsory (or sources that claim languages are not taught in spite of being compulsory), that information could be added.  Education in North Korea looks more problematic.  It's certainly interesting to see the North Korean government's public rationalization of its social education program, for example, but a more objective account is desirable.--Wikimedes (talk) 18:47, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Bureau 121
With the brouhaha concerning Sony Pictures Entertainment, do we have an article that covers Bureau 121? -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 11:27, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Ekem, for writing a new articlet. -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 00:17, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
 * If we could expand it to 250 words within the next week, it would be eligible for WP:DYK. I could help with the technical side of the nomination as soon as it is expanded. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  06:00, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
 * The article has been expanded, -thanks. Ekem (talk)

Need help with a Korean War Mystery!
I had an Uncle Pvt. Edward Donald Howser born Oct 2, 1931 in Rochester New York and was killed in Action maybe abt July 16, 1950. This is where it gets strange, I just received the org OBIT from a family member, and it says that my Uncle Edward 18 years old at that time was seen 2 days before he went missing in a Associated Press Dispatch participating in a Reconnaissance mission with the US Army Engineers, that would place the date abt July 13 or 14th of July. He was a Dynamite Juggler blowing up bridges along the line of a Red Advance. He had been assigned to the 3rd Armored Division, Corps of Engineers. I need to know how I can get that film, ( Press Dispatch ) does anyone know how I my find it and I have searched all over looking for infor and other soldiers that may have served with Edward, and can't find any infor about this group of Brave young men, please help our family get some answers, we really need to see the Press Release, any help, and infor, would be much loved by the family, please help us! De, please answer to medevil5@yahoo.com Gidget12345 (talk) 19:36, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I am afraid Wikipedia is encyclopedia, not a help forum for locating information about family members. How is your request related to building an encyclopedia? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 15:30, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Missing article: macadamia nuts controversy
On the subject of missing current news articles, someone should write that up. Would make for a nice DYK. It has gained enough notoriety and coverage to be notable. Plus, Category:Scandals in South Korea needs more content... and South Korea is missing entirely from Category:Controversies by country. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 06:05, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
 * &mdash; Revi 07:45, 19 December 2014 (UTC)


 * It isn't clear to me that this topic will have any long-term notability. I think the press will soon ignore it, and the world will soon forget it.147.46.57.248 (talk) 08:09, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Notability does not degrade over time. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 16:29, 19 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Exactly. Which is why I don't think the topic is notable. Widespread interest in this topic will not last long. (I feel it's fading already.) Thus, I don't believe it's a notable topic. Just my opinion. 147.46.57.248 (talk) 00:26, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Interested editors may want to expand Draft:Macadamia nuts controversy. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 17:05, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

I moved it to mainspace and nominated for T:TDYK. While some c/e is still needed (I am a bit unclear about who was fired - attendant, or flight chief? Some sources refer to "purser"...) it is mostly ready. One final to-do: apparently commons:Category:Macadamia nuts as food doesn't have any pictures of Korean macadamia-nuts brands (or any macademia nuts in packs at all). If someone could buy a packet or two, photograph it and upload to Commons, it would be quite helpful in illustrating this. Regarding Heather Cho, Google Images shows some free pictures at, but I am nos sure which one is of hers (if any). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 15:29, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * AFAIK nobody was fired (I'll search again). (No local Macadamia nuts (AFAIK again...), but images of packs are needed...) &mdash; Revi 15:35, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Now also discussed at Articles for deletion/Macadamia nuts controversy. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 12:40, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Please help expand new DYK: Slavery in Korea
As it is a potentially controversial topic, some expansion would be nice. In particular, I focused on the history period, so the information on modern slavery, both in the North and South, could use expansion. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 12:48, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Identify two government members
Hi all. In early 2014 I uploaded File:Park Geun-hye and South Korean delegation receive Stephen Harper and Canadian delegation on 11 March 2014.jpg. I've identified all the Canadian individuals, but only one of the three South Korean individuals in this photo. If anybody recognizes the two unidentified individuals, could you update the file description. Thank you. Mind matrix  20:08, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sure that the man at the end of the line is Yoon Byeong-se, minister of Foreign Affairs, but not sure about the other guys. (ofc, Park is already identified.) &mdash; Revi 13:42, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Minister of Trade, Industry and Energy Yoon Sang-jick. See a spot on his upper cheek.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 13:31, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yoon Sang-jik makes more sense. &mdash; Revi 13:57, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
 * So, can we update the description with Yun Byung-se in the back, and Yoon Sang-jik in the front? ☺ ·  Salvidrim!   ·  &#9993;  17:10, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yup. &mdash; Revi 18:24, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Re-evaluation of Reliable Sources
Hello. There's been a long (and now, kind of hard to follow) discussion in the popular culture working group about the current reliable sources list. There are some concerns that some of the sources probably shouldn't be on the list or, at least, should have limitations appended to them. For instance, MWAVE is published by CJ, which has direct links to many, many singers & kpop groups. This make is unsuitable for establishing notability, but probably fine for general reliability. There are also some that may be a little too tabloid-ish to be on the list. For instance, I can attest that Metro Seoul is a tabloid. It's given away for free in the mornings near subway entrances and is front-to-back gossip. Anyway, we've been trying to have a discussion of it and would like to have it with all of you, too, since you're the ones that drew up the list. :) Instead of trying to navigate the long mess on the popular culture wg page, I'd like to get something going on the reliable sources talk page. Is that okay?  Please join in, as I think it's really valuable to get everyone's information and points of view on each source. :) Shinyang-i (talk) 01:40, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Could someone translate (or at least summarize) those to policies into Korean?
I am often discussing those topics with my students, but despite them being at university, their English is often not good enough for them to understand this. If I could refer them to Korean language sources, it would be very helpful: I am sure Korean Wikipedia would benefit from having those policies there as well. Thanks! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 10:37, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Copying text from other sources
 * Close paraphrasing
 * Support this idea 1000%. Good luck! Shinyang-i (talk) 01:56, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Order of listing nationalities of bi-national pop music groups
You are invited to participate in a discussion about the best way to describe the nationalities of bi-national group Exo (band). There has been a recent edit war on the subject. Join in here: Talk:Exo (band). Thanks for your input! Shinyang-i (talk) 00:31, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Help me improve this new article: National Aerospace Development Administration
It's North Korea's recently funded space program. Tetra quark (talk) 17:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Are these high importance articles?
I ran across a couple of articles that were tagged as high importance for WP Korea. The thing is, they were tagged as such by someone who is, as far as I can tell, not a member of this project (no big deal), but I can't fathom how these could be considered high importance in any project, let alone this one, as the subject matter barely relates to Korea at all. Both articles are about an annual international music festival held that year in South Korea. See ABU TV Song Festival 2012 and ABU Radio Song Festival 2012 Those kind of events are a dime a dozen in Korea. It even had a picture of TVXQ so old the member lineup was definitely not the one that performed at the event. So what is the etiquette in this situation? Can an individual editor like me change the importance (I'd put it as "low" for WP Korea), or should we get a consensus here, or should we just ignore it? I don't know the proper protocol. Thanks for any feedback. Shinyang-i (talk) 11:59, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Of course those are improperly assessed. My rule of thumb is: Top=People abroad probably know about it, High=Most people in given country know about it, Mid=Some people in given country know about it (1 in 10), Low=Nobody cares but a few people (1 in 100 or less). The festivals you cite are, of course, low importance. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 12:30, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback. I went ahead and changed them; we'll see if anyone yells at me. heh heh Shinyang-i (talk) 13:22, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Reliable sources discussion
This discussion has been sitting around for awhile WikiProject Korea/Reliable sources and I don't know what to do at this point. Can I go ahead and update the sources page as proposed? Barely anyone spoke up, as is usually the case. Can someone provide some guidance? Thanks! Shinyang-i (talk) 03:21, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * From looking at talk it seems there was enough agreement to make the change, I would just ask you be clear that we are talking about the forums because if anyone starts telling me MWave is no longer source-able I will give up searching for references until I learn Korean. lolPeachywink (talk) 03:38, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Kim Chi-ha or Ji-ha?
Please comment at Talk:Kim Chi-ha. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:19, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

-cha
See the Talk:Gugija Cha. I think it should change the article's name from "Gugija_Cha" to "Gugijacha" like other articles for korean tea. The proposal was rejected. How shall I do it? Thanks. --Idh0854 (talk) 10:44, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * You could resubmit your request as a second attempt and this time come here and make a post asking people to join the discussion to get more opinions. However I would urge you to post in numerous places asking for more opinions since it can be hard to get people interested in such discussions...maybe post on other Korean tea articles' talk pages about it to see if you can get more people to give their vote one way or the other.  However, I think it will still be difficult. Just from looking the general article on Korean tea it seems to be almost a 50/50 split between the spelling variations among the listed teas, making it hard to draw an opinion on which way is correct for those of us who are not professional translators.  Peachywink (talk) 17:40, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

KTV
This disambig is missing a reference to whatever Korean station is using this abbreviation. See File:Choe Kwang-shik (7934136338).jpg (this is a Korean station, right?). --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 02:55, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, do you find KTV Gukmin bangsong? Thanks. --Idh0854 (talk) 05:31, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Korean education article notability discussion
I just wanted to mention this discussion taking place about whether 60 or so articles on Korean colleges should be deleted for lack of notability. I am strongly against these proposed deletions and am interested in hearing the opinions of other members of this wikiproject. Rystheguy (talk) 08:41, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Commented. Gotta give her props for boldness, I guess.  Situations like this come up in other countries too, perhaps a discussion with many editors that involves WP:WPSCH would help interpret notability guidelines in relation to these types of institutions. Shinyang-i (talk) 19:26, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Draft:Angel Musical Instrument Co., Ltd.
Your comments on Draft:Angel Musical Instrument Co., Ltd. are welcommed. Use, or use directly in the draft. -- Sam Sing! 02:36, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Probably spam failing WP:COMPANY, but all the sources are in Korean, so I will defer to readers of that language. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:53, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, subject itself is notable but spam spam lovely spam. &mdash; regards, <span style="color:green;font-family:Courier new, serif;font-variant:small-caps">Revi 04:29, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Undoing the WP:ROK and WP:DPRK confusion
The Wikiproject North Korea and Wikiproject South Korea pages have been moved back to their original place as working groups of Wikiproject Korea. However... Thanks! Shinyang-i (talk) 02:40, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) The pages themselves are still full of erroneous language; by looking at the history, I couldn't figure out how to undo it or what the original language was.  Can someone help?
 * 2) Though Template:WikiProject South Korea history indicates it was created very recently, the banner is present on over 500 articles ... it seems the banner existed for some time, or existed in the past, or something (I don't know).  All links on the banner redirect to WP Korea, but I personally find it confusing to have it in existence.  Ditto for Template:WikiProject North Korea, though its used on few articles.
 * 3) Should we nominate either or both templates for deletion?
 * 4) Should we try to migrate pages with those banners over to the WP Korea banner?  If so, does anyone know a way to do it non-manually?
 * 5) Template:WikiProject Korea apparently cannot be edited by regular editors.  Does anyone know how to go about making the changes suggested by the IP in the discussion above?


 * Those talk page templates should be redirected here. I think asking at WP:VPT may help. For making edits to protected pages, use Edit template-protected. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:17, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject South Korea?!

 * WP:WikiProject South Korea and WP:WikiProject North Korea

Okay, you guys might think I'm dumb, but I had no idea WP:ROK existed. There is an entire other Wikiproject for South Korea (born in 2010), and I only learned this because I saw someone tag a new article with its banner. All of the Korea-related content "infrastructure" is part of this WP, not that one. There are thousands of South Korea-related articles tagged with this project's banner, not that one, but can you imagine seeing an article with both WP KOREA and WP ROK's tags? From an organizational point of view, having both projects seems ... not good. It looks little-used though one editor is actively tagging for it and it has some 500 articles in it. Any comments, insights, etc? Shinyang-i (talk) 05:03, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Whichever is more active I think should take precedence and have pages merged into one...or whichever is the easiest to move ( has fewer things that would need to be merged). I am concerned about the loss of talk archives but don't know much about how merges this size are done so that's just my own thoughts with nothing backing up that fear.  Mergeing makes since that way all the editors working on these types of pages have one place to go.  (Side thought: Does WikiProject South Korea not work on the North Korean articles? Because frankly dividing those two is not ideal either as I think a Wikiproject North Korea would by name alone turn off a few potential editors.)Peachywink (talk) 05:24, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * There are many WPs within other WPs. For instance, WP Korea is "within" WP Asia; a ton of WPs fall under WP Biography.  But having both Korea and South Korea...that's just too close to me, especially when most content on modern topics in WP Korea is about SK by virtue of NK's closed nature.  Or else there needs to be a mass migration of South Korean topics to WP ROK and some kind of master plan.  I ain't manually retagging a gazillion articles, haha. (Talk pages are still accessible after merges, have no fear.) Shinyang-i (talk) 05:36, 2 April 2015 (UTC)


 * It'd be easy to merge WPROK into WPKOREA as a task force. Since WPROK has had almost zero activity in 5 years, it should be merged here. It can be moved to WP:WikiProject Korea/South Korea ; WPKOREA can have a switch added for South Korea; the other South Korean taskforces are taskforces of WPKOREA not WPROK. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 04:46, 7 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I personally have no idea how to do that and don't even know some of the terms you use, ha ha. Is anyone up for this? Shinyang-i (talk) 18:44, 12 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Uh, somebody had a bad idea. We barely have people to make this one function; we (sadly) have not enough activity to support anything smaller than a Korea WikiProject. Based on next to no activity there, I have tagged it as inactive, and I suggest archiving its talk page and redirecting it here. This is how we salvaged WikiProject Poland years ago, by archiving subprojects for Polish geography and history, and merging it with Polish-language noticeboard. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 02:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * , there is also WP:DPRK and it looks like someone took the North Korea working group out of WP KOREA and added it to WP DPRK a couple of weeks ago. I see no discussion, though.  I had no idea it happened, I was still tagging pages as WGs within this Wikiproject.  This is all really confusing. Shinyang-i (talk) 03:15, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Revert it as no consensus to do so. &mdash; regards, <span style="color:green;font-family:Courier new, serif;font-variant:small-caps">Revi 04:28, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, a good find (re WikiProject North Korea). Another inactive project: no discussion at it's talk page for two years. I'd propose a similar action: archive talk page, redirect it here. We don't want new people signing up there, only to see no activity and go somewhere else. Here is where we have to channel their activity. Oh, I see that Korea-related topics notice board exists, through its talk page redirects here. Still, the page itself would probably be better integrated here. It is just a list of Korea-related featured content, and of little usefulness to anyone, particularly under its current name. Finally, I'd strongly recommend archiving and closing any taskforces here. Such pages are almost never anything but forgotten and unused wikiprojects masquarading as not. There is no discussion, no activity of a taskforce that cannot be handled better by the parent project, unless it becomes to active. Which I very much don't think our project here is. Let's pipe all those venues here; if we are lucky we may get one or two more active members... --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 06:13, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I cannot undo the page move, but I'm not sure why. I think it has to do with redirects and whatnot.  Regarding task forces, if you are including working groups in that (I see the terms used interchangeably), the popular culture working group has been used quite a lot but it might not hurt to merge it and bring in other Korea-interested editors that talk on the main project page.  I also recommend serious beefing up of the MOS and such, making it rather detailed when it comes to kpop, because there are like a teeny number of editors who have a vague clue how things are supposed to be and another 500,000 who just do whatever the hell they want and get all their how-to from other terrible kpop articles.  It's just a non-stop miserable fight to get even the smallest things cleaned up.  I was even working on a very rough kpop MOS a while back but it never went anywhere...  Shinyang-i (talk) 06:34, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * So... return WP:ROK to WP:WikiProject Korea/South Korea and return WP:DPRK to WP:WikiProject Korea/North Korea to return to the status quo from 2014. (we can ask at WP:RMTR for a revert of the two page moves, since they used to be subpages of WPKOREA, and were moved without discussion, clearly something that is highly anti-consensus for Wikiproject pages) Then the WPROK task force needs to be indicated on the project banner.

|tf 2= |TF_2_LINK            = Wikipedia:WikiProject Korea/South Korea |TF_2_NAME            = South Korea working group |TF_2_TEXT            = |TF_2_IMAGE           = Flag of South Korea.svg |TF_2_SIZE            = 30x30px |TF_2_MAIN_CAT        = WikiProject Korea South Korea working group
 * needs to be added between

|TF_1_MAIN_CAT       = WikiProject Korea South Korean politics working group
 * and the line that occurs immediately after it:

}}
 * And the taskforces that were severed from WPKOREA into WPROK also need to be returned to WPROK.
 * Also WikiProject South Korea and WikiProject North Korea needs to be reverted into redirects to WikiProject Korea
 * -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 09:16, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * WP:WikiProject Korea/North Korea is hardly inactive. We just like to keep discussions on individual articles' talk pages. The move that would have made us a separate Wikiproject was not based on any consensus (see here). Revert the move for now, but don't merge the entire taskforce into WP:KOREA. Finnusertop (talk &#124; guestbook &#124; contribs) 13:28, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I have requested a reversion of the undiscussed moves. Shinyang-i (talk) 14:42, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The moves have been completed, so WP ROK and WP DPRK are now again working groups under WP KOREA. I don't know how to do the banner editing because the page is locked.  Also, is there a way to non-manually change the banners on pages tagged for ROK and DPRK to the KOREA one?  I know nothing about those kinds of technical things, unfortunately. Shinyang-i (talk) 19:54, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 * You can ask for a WP:BOTREQ to fix that issue (replace WPDPRK with WPKOREA|nk=yes and WPROK with WPKOREA|sk=yes (or add |sk=yes and |nk=yes to an existing WPKOREA banner if there are multiple Korean project banners) -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 08:15, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Notable Enlistments: Conscription in South Korea
Hi,

I just need to point out that references are needed for notable enlistments (such as Lee Sungmin of Super Junior) in the Conscription in South Korea page.

Thanks!

Tibbydibby (talk) 20:01, 26 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I just had a look at the page. Do we really need a huge list of pop stars who have been conscripted? It's beginning to look like a WP:COATRACK. -- benlisquare T•C•E 21:32, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
 * it seems unnecessary since most male celebrities have to go at some point. Peachywink (talk) 04:33, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Feels like it's detracting from the main topic. The page is no longer about military conscription, the laundry list of celebrities makes up a giant portion of the page. -- benlisquare T•C•E 04:39, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The list should be deleted. Or moved to a separate articles; the phenomena of pop stars in Korean army may be notable in itself. Is there any term for it? --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:48, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I feel like it's something to be listed on the celebrities Wikipedia page and only there. Except for maybe the instances of attempted dodging, as they can highlight the issue of people trying to avoid the mandatory service, and the incidents that led to the disbandment of the celebrity unit. Because it's not that notable that these celebrities served since they're legally required to unless they have a major health problem. Peachywink (talk) 13:49, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Coming to think of it, I'm going to have to agree with Peachywink with the majority of the list. Maybe a few Korean celebrities who have accomplished much in the Military can be listed in that article, but most of them that HAVE their own articles may just simply be talked about in their articles instead of this list. What do you guys think? Tibbydibby (talk) 15:27, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Obviously I'm in agreement. lol.Peachywink (talk) 19:41, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Shtykov
Hello everyone. I'm sure that many of you will be interested to express their opinion at User talk:Plumber, Talk:Kim Il-sung and Talk:List of leaders of North Korea about the claim that a Soviet general, Terentii Shtykov, served as the first Supreme Leader of North Korea. --Sundostund (talk) 13:51, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I looked into it and this user is actually going around changeing some important articles such as they now have changed Kim Il-sung's page to say he was the second supreme leader and edited the dates at which he held power. This is a huge problem.  The Supreme leader title was something Kim Il-sung made up and it is therefore pretty weird to say he was the second so I reverted it.  I feel that the editor should discuss it in talk at least before they make such a huge change.Peachywink (talk) 15:12, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Suggested merge in ko wiki
In English wikipedia, we just merged category:Troas to category:Troad, see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_March_18. I was unable to merge the Wikidata items (Q8873435, Q10099976) because ko wiki still has two categories: ko:분류:트로아스 and ko:분류:트로아드. Unless there is a useful distinction between them, please could someone initiate a merger in ko wiki? – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:31, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Guryong
I created a stub about this forgotten Seoul's neighbourhood. Not sure if this shouldn't be moved to Guryong Village, and a disambig created in its place? I think the corresponding ko wiki article is ko:구룡마을. Feel free to expand. Also, commons page commons:구룡마을 should probably be converted into a category. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:09, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The Commons gallery is created by known problematic copyvio uploader, I need to check them but there's so much files......... Anyway I agree that it should be Guryong Village. &mdash; regards, <span style="color:green;font-family:Courier new, serif;font-variant:small-caps">Revi 04:35, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

No Gun Ri Massacre
We are going through an overhaul on the No Gun Ri Massacre article, and I would like to include a translation of the name of the event in Korean. I don't speak Korean, nor does anyone else working on the project. Any help is greatly appreciated. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 18:37, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride!
<div style="padding:3em; font-family:'Helvetica Neue',sans-serif; font-size:110%; line-height:1.75;"> You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride!


 * What? Wiki Loves Pride, a campaign to document and photograph LGBT culture and history, including pride events
 * When? June 2015
 * How can you help?
 * 1.) Create or improve LGBT-related articles and showcase the results of your work here
 * 2.) Upload photographs or other media related to LGBT culture and history, including pride events, and add images to relevant Wikipedia articles; feel free to create a subpage with a gallery of your images (see examples from last year)
 * 3.) Contribute to an LGBT-related task force at another Wikimedia project (Wikidata, Wikimedia Commons, Wikivoyage, etc.)

Or, view or update the current list of Tasks. This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. Visit the group's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Wikipedia, plain and simple, and all are welcome!

If you have any questions, please leave a message on the campaign's main talk page.

Thanks, and happy editing!

User:Another Believer and User:OR drohowa

Last year I wrote Korea Queer Culture Festival. Sadly, the organizers ignored my emails and (during the festival) in-person requests to use CC license for their media. Someone could add some coverage of the recent events (parade banned by police this year), but I am moving on to other topics. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:41, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Request sources
Hi. I am improving The Arabic article of Joseon and I Just miss the sources to write a small paragraph about the Royalty. Could someone please notes some English sources about the royal family, its origin, sub-clans, and General information? Thank you.--Sayom (talk) 20:54, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject South Korea and WikiProject North Korea
WikiProject South Korea and WikiProject North Korea project banners still exist, even though the unilateral creation of these projects have been reverted to being taskforces of WPKOREA. Indeed WPNORTHKOREA's banner is broken, since none of the associated article rating categories exist. Can we have a bot replace all instances of these banners with WPKOREA's banner, and delete all the inappropriate article-rating categories? -- 70.51.202.183 (talk) 06:06, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I think we agreed to merge those templates into one. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Korea. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:07, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * So, has the WPKOREA banner been updated to support the ROK taskforce per that discussion? And can we file a botrequest to update the banners? -- 70.51.202.183 (talk) 07:10, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Copyright Violation Detection - EranBot Project
A new copy-paste detection bot is now in general use on English Wikipedia. Come check it out at the EranBot reporting page. This bot utilizes the Turnitin software (ithenticate), unlike User:CorenSearchBot that relies on a web search API from Yahoo. It checks individual edits rather than just new articles. Please take 15 seconds to visit the EranBot reporting page and check a few of the flagged concerns. Comments welcome regarding potential improvements. These likely copyright violations can be searched by WikiProject categories. Use "control-f" to jump to your area of interest.--Lucas559 (talk) 22:42, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

"King of Hell"
The usage and primary topic of "" is under discussion, see talk:King of Hell (disambiguation) -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 05:18, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Request for help
Hi to all,

Hope you are doing well. I am coming over from No Gun Ri Massacre, where a heated debate has been going for years, on-and-off. In essence, the dispute arises from contradicting sources. If anyone would be so kind as to come over and help me out, particularly through mediating and arbitrating the feud, I would be tremendously appreciative. Experienced dispute resolution mediators are ideal, but any help is great. Also, any volunteers will receive my custom-made No Gun Ri barnstar for their heroic efforts. If you simply wish to watch the argument unfold, that's also fine.

If you want to read up a bit on the event itself, here are a smattering of sources that might help out:


 * Article on the massacre in general:
 * Legal implications:
 * Washington Post article:
 * Article by Charles Hanley:
 * Thesis on the massacre:

Best,

GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 17:52, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Whoa. Just went over there and slammed into the wall of text, and that's gonna take some time to get through. However, I think I might be able to improve at least something. Dakarias (talk) 01:26, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not my area but I took a look at that debate awhile ago and felt true fear...good luck to you brave soul.Peachywink (talk) 03:42, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Chunseong
Could someone who can read the Korean-language sources please give attention to Chunseong, with a view to bringing it to an acceptable standard. Most of the present text is impenetrable. Thanks <b style="color:seagreen">Noyster</b> (talk),  13:09, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Why should we bring this article to any standard (apart from standard deletion) ? Pldx1 (talk) 10:11, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

I'll try cleaning it up. Jangdan (talk) 02:24, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

RfC at Talk:Joseon
there is currently an RfC at Talk:Joseon.  ミーラー強斗武   (StG88ぬ会話) 09:27, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Input needed
See Reliable_sources/Noticeboard. Thank you, FoCuS contribs ;  talk to me!  16:54, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Template:Korean
Just a heads up that I updated the Ko-hhrm template to include an optional parameter (links=no) that disables the wikilinks in the template. The lang&#8209;ko template already uses this parameter. It can be useful for articles that use the template multiple times to comply with WP:OLINK. Ry's the Guy (talk&#124;contribs) 10:13, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I also added the optional parameter "context=old" which displays Hunminjeongeum instead of Hangul or Chosungul, based on a comment on the template's talk page suggesting that there should be a more neutral term that can be used in articles about events before 1945. I'm open to suggestions about whether this should be modified in any way. Additionally the parameter "lit=" can be used to add a literal translation. Ry's the Guy  (talk&#124;contribs) 14:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
 * While we're on the topic, what is the correct way to display romanization only (without hangul) with language templates? The only way I've figured that doesn't render the hangul field at all is:, which displays: MR: Hangugeo  Finnusertop (talk &#124; guestbook &#124; contribs) 19:59, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * There's no way to do it with Template:Korean, at least that I know of. Your way might be the only way. Just curious, why would you want to include a romanization but not the corresponding Hangul? Do you have an example of an article in which you'd like to do this? Ry's the Guy  (talk&#124;contribs) 08:01, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Sometimes I don't know the hangul because I'm not a Korean speaker and my sources only include a romanization. For an example, see On the Art of the Cinema: "humanics" (MR: Hangugeo); "speed campaign" (MR: Hangugeo). I have a ton of other questions about these Korean language templates too as I find the documentation very much inadequate. Finnusertop (talk &#124; guestbook &#124; contribs) 12:06, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, feel free to post to my talk page and I'll do what I can to help. Thanks for your contributions! Ry's the Guy  (talk&#124;contribs) 12:34, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

I think we should update all romanizations to the Revised Romanization system?
As you probably know, the South Korean government has issued a new romanization system that is, in my opinion, more superior to the old McCune–Reischauer system. McCune–Reischauer is hard to read and write. Extra marks on top of vowels, and apostrophes after strong sounds (like Ch'ungch'ŏngdo (충청도)) distracts fluent reading. RR doesn't have any marks on top of vowels (whatever they're called) and it can be read much more closely to the native Korean pronounciation. Widely used Korean words such as Paektu and Chaebol aren't romanized to the current system. Of course, living in Korea, I see a transition phase, I see these two systems both being used widely, with the state defined Revised Romanization gaining more traction. The English Wikipedia should too, start converting old romanizaitons to newer verisions.

Some points that must be thought through a little more though:
 * 1) It's not fair because North Korea doesn't acknowledge the Revised Romanization system.
 * 2) Some expressions already entered the English language (maybe even Chaebol?) with the McCune–Reischauer system. I don't think these can be fixed.

Your thoughts?????

Jangdan (talk) 02:22, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Leave McCune for NK articles, replace McCune with RR for SK articles. For article covering both Korea, decide it case-by-case.
 * If some words are "fixed", leave it as is as it is not romanization of Korean anymore.
 * &mdash; regards, <span style="color:green;font-family:Courier new, serif;font-variant:small-caps">Revi 17:05, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The relevant guideline is MOS:KO and it already says use RR for SK articles and MR for NK articles. I think using MR for NK articles makes a great deal of sense since these are very often the common names of the subjects. Not only does NK use the system, as points out, but academic literature on NK uses it too.


 * WP:Common name| also overrides any concerns about established spellings not conforming to the preferred system of romanization. We should use the most recognizable name, as with all other topics. Finnusertop (talk &#124; guestbook &#124; contribs) 19:48, 31 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I think that sums it up. We just need to see if the titles are the 'most recognizable name'. And if it isn't, we're gonna change it. Okay. Jangdan (talk) 10:29, 2 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Dear 장단. Are you Jangdan like 'Presidency' or 'Rythm' or 'Long and Short'? Anyway, the 'new romanization' seems to be as new as year 2000, i.e. not that new. And the usage here is to comply with the BukRom/NamRom duality, using BukRom for specific North's matters and NamRom for the others. This is foremost an acknowledgment of which government governs which part of the world. Nevertheless, a problem to live with is the huge mass of random romanizations from the past. And therefore the most efficient way is to provide the original, Korean, name. According to Sejong's advertizing, the romanizations are only provided for those people that can't learn what a child could learn in a small period!   Pldx1 (talk) 11:37, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello! Yes, 장단 is the Jangdan rhythm, I like traditional Korean music. It's also related to my real name haha. I agree with everything you said, and I love your Sejong joke(?). It seems you aren't one of those people who need romanizations. Nice! If only we could have non-alphabet titles for Wiki titles. Jangdan (talk) 10:16, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Input requested
There is a discussion going on at Template talk:Hangugeo about whether this template is useful. Any input from Wikiproject Korea members would be appreciated. Thanks! Ry's the Guy (talk&#124;contribs) 10:20, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Korean diaspora.png
File:Korean diaspora.png has been nominated for deletion -- 70.51.202.113 (talk) 05:50, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Creative Common Summit next week in Seoul
Some Wikipedians from abroad are attending it, as are WMF representatives. I'll be there. If anyone else is going, or would just like to catch up for a lunch/dinner, it may be a good idea to chat here. More info:. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 02:26, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Discussion on WikiProject Korea classes
You are welcome to participate in a discussion about which additional classes (eg. Redirect, Draft) WikiProject Korea should support at: Template talk:WikiProject Korea. Finnusertop (talk &#124; guestbook &#124; contribs) 11:31, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Sok Pok Kim
I recently rescued this article from an inactive user's sandbox. It seems to be an incomplete translation of his Japanese article. It seems he has no bio on Korean Wikipedia (and is likely a controversial figure in Korea?). If anyone provide some useful Korean external links/refs, it would be appreciated. Cheers, --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:25, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I found one . My search term at Google was this. You can find many other references. --Cheol (talk) 09:32, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I saw some too, having done a search on GNews for his name in hangul, but my Korean is too poor to determine which ones are relevant. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:40, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Yi or Lee?
I can't decide: Yong-hun Lee. Feel free to move. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 12:21, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
 * It depends on the personal preferences and how other references address him as, imho. In this case, he is addressed as "Lee", so Lee seems fine here. &mdash; regards, <span style="color:green;font-family:Courier new, serif;font-variant:small-caps">Revi 13:38, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Wikimedia Korea chapter former, first mini-conference in late November
See ko:위키백과:오프라인 모임/위키컨퍼런스 서울 2015 for details (in Korean), I am afraid. I will be presenting (in English) about teaching with Wikipedia. Is there any other non-Korean speakers who'll be attending? --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:37, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Green tea in South Korea
I investigated the tea (Camellia sinensis i.e. Black tea or Green tea) production and consumption in South Korea. Some advocate green tea is an inherent culture of Korea. However according to FAOSTAT and other sources, tea production in South Korea began in 1960s and is 20% of Taiwan and 3.5% of Japan. Furthermore, tea consumption per capita in South Korea is one tenth of other East Asian countries. I would like to confirm this analysis is in line with the actual situation in South Korea.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:36, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia Asian Month
Just an FYI, I just noticed this: Wikipedia Asian Month -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 07:37, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Which hanja name choose the station?


I change the Hanja spelling Hanyang University at Ansan Station hanja.

I wrote that Hanja spelling for in website but station have different spelling.

I think website spelling is new spelling so change new spelling is right.

But is make something confuse because spelling is different to station so some people think which spelling is right.

How about thinking this situation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Myn727 (talk • contribs) 05:57, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * "漢" seems to be correct one. See the picture. &mdash; regards, <span style="color:green;font-family:Courier new, serif;font-variant:small-caps">Revi 07:59, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Hangang Railway Bridge vs Hangang Bridge
There is a number of images at commons:Category:Hangang Bridge showing both bridges, but none say which is which (first or second). This makes illustrating the articles a bit problematic; can someone clarify that? Ideally we should have a commons:Category:Hangang Railway Bridge too. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:04, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Bridge with island is Hangang Bridge, and the another one without island and with green-gray-green arch(?) is Railway one. &mdash; regards, <span style="color:green;font-family:Courier new, serif;font-variant:small-caps">Revi 12:14, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Song Yoo-geun
I have concerns about the notability of the subject of this article. While his accomplishments are certainly impressive, that alone is not enough to automatically meet WP:N or WP:ACADEMIC. From my quick searching, the English-language coverage amounts pretty much just to an article when he entered university, several blog posts this week about his paper being retracted , and a bunch of links to a Korean-language interview. Together these probably do not amount to substantial enough coverage to pass WP:N, and I was considering nominating the article for deletion through WP:AFD.

However, the Korean version of the article (송유근) has a lot more references, so that might be enough to indicate notability. As I don't speak Korean, I can't really evaluate this. Is there someone here who speaks Korean and is familiar enough with AFD to be able to gauge notability here, and advise on whether it would be better to AFD this article or just tag it? Thanks, <b class="IPA">r ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 10:32, 26 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello. My opinion is that this article should be kept as is (for the moment). The fact that several newspapers have written (in 2005) that a 8 years child understood Schrödinger equation proves notability, even if this doesn't proves this or that kind of understanding (was is about factoring differential equations using some invariants, about describing a physical object as a linear combination of its allowed futures, about whatever ?) Now, in 2015, ten years after that understanding of the Schrödinger equation, some results could be expected. Instead of that,  we have this Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 15:58 last English reference, which is a harsh rebuttal for plagiarism. A novel writter could probably build a story from such an exceptionally large overlap between a 2002 book chapter (by Pr Park) and the 2015 paper (by Song and Park). But, as an Encyclopedia, we have only to wait quietely for more comments in reliable sources. The  (송유근) is more about playing drums. An amusing Google translation of a section is
 * Study, as well as exercise in a considerable talent even, basketball, soccer, tennis, swim, cycle, hiking, yoga, skiing, snowboarding and a lot of sports such as that. In particular, soccer passion for the metric ton, football player Cristiano Ronaldo with the EPL's Chelsea FC renowned as a big fan of the team, just three or four times per week, football is said to. As well as guitar and drums called considerable-class performance. The band is said to be active in extracurricular activities within the current South Korea Astronomy and Space Science Institute campus.
 * Thus: keep and wait. No tag for updating, since we are waiting. Pldx1 (talk) 15:02, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Follow up. A primary source (for at least someone, pretending to be a Korean PhD student, wrote...): http://scholarlyoa.com/2015/11/20/is-this-17-year-old-korean-ph-d-student-a-plagiarist/ the 'Yoo boy' post. Pldx1 (talk) 15:27, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Another. http://netizenbuzz.blogspot.fr/2015/04/child-prodigy-song-yoo-geun-confesses.html, English translation of http://news.nate.com/view/20150416n06909?mid=n1008. The original one is RS (nate). Pldx1 (talk) 15:42, 26 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your input. However, I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing really. Multiple newspapers writing more or less the same thing about one event (the fact that he understood an equation) is not really sufficient to meet the notability guidelines. The plagiarism issue itself is not really a concern of mine except insofar as it may pertain to notability (personally, I think being in the news once for entering college early and being in blogs once for a plagiarism issue is not enough to make a person notable). As for the scholarlyoa link, that is a blog, not a news website, and it's not adding anything beyond the two types of coverage I already mentioned above (in fact, that blog post is how I first found out about this individual); also note that Jeffrey Beall, the author of that blog, is definitely not "pretending to be a Korean PhD student". And the last link you post is nothing but the English translation of a source I already provided above. So all in all, it sounds like you have not uncovered any more than what I already had.
 * Also note that "no tag for updating" is not an option. The article clearly does not include enough sources to demonstrate notability; if the topic is actually notable, that just means the article needs to be improved, which means one would have to leave a tag. If the topic is not notable, then the article should be tagged for deletion. But leaving a sub-par article un-improved and un-tagged is not a good resolution. <b class="IPA">r ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 16:56, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello. I was saying two things. First: the one pretending to be a Korean PhD student, i.e. the author of the Yoo boy reply to the scholarlyoa blog, gives many clues about the situation, and could become the starting point of a further expansion of the en:wp article. Second: since the most recent event occurred November 24, 2015 we don't have yet any analysis of the event by Reliable Sources that could back up a section in the article space describing how "training the next to be Nobel Prize" has turned so wrong. Since the present state of the article says nothing rude about that living person, we can quietly wait for phase II, i.e. the publication of reliable secondary sources that will explain how the nate story (April 2015) turned to the aas story (November 2015). And thus a better tag could be "This article doesn't cover the most recent events. Waiting for reliable secondary sources to appear (2015-11-26). Pldx1 (talk) 17:38, 26 November 2015 (UTC)


 * I have nominated the page for deletion. You are welcome to comment at Articles for deletion/Song Yoo-geun. <b class="IPA">r ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 05:00, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Monarchs succession boxes
Hi. Someone added succession boxes to all korean monarchs articles. I find very odd the use of the ,,King/Queen of Korea" title and the use of the syntagm ,,Titles in pretence" for kings of pre-Goryeo periods. Does this monarchs realy used and pretended the title King/Queen of Korea, and to pretended rule all the koreans/Korean Peninsula ?! From what I read, I doubt. Shouldn't this be modified? Here are some examples: 1; 2; 3; 4; 5. Or at the Balhae monarchs, do we know for sure that they were Goguryeo claimants and pretended the same King of Korea title? Ex: 1; 2. Could a connoisseur of history check this? --Daduxing (talk) 17:40, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

#1 K-POP song without an article: Cherry Blossom Ending
Busker Busker's Cherry Blossom Ending reached #1 on the K-POP chart (see http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/k-town/1555270/busker-busker-top-k-pop-chart-with-year-old-single ).

Google was a "wall" of mostly-promotional- and fan-pages so I passed on trying to create the article, but I figured someone at either WT:WikiProject Korea or WT:WikiProject Pop music would like to take a crack at it. I think the topic would make a good Did you know? entry for Wikipedia's Main page. Recommended hook: "Did you know ... that Busker Busker's 2012 song "Cherry Blossom Ending" was #1 on the Korea K-Pop Hot 100 chart a year after its release?" davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  18:44, 28 November 2015 (UTC)