Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea/Archive 4

Rfc
See Requests_for_comment/Jiejunkong. (Wikimachine 03:04, 10 July 2007 (UTC))

Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 11
For anyone who is interested, I've proposed a rename of the somewhat oddly-titled Category:Feature-quality Korea-related articles to Category:FA-class Korea-related articles, to bring it in line with the others at Category:Korea-related articles by quality. PC78 07:57, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

The following categories have been create by Prove It. Thank you! For non standard classes:
 * Category:FA-Class Korea-related articles
 * Category:A-Class Korea-related articles
 * Category:GA-Class Korea-related articles
 * Category:B-Class Korea-related articles
 * Category:Stub-Class Korea-related articles
 * Category:Start-Class Korea-related articles
 * D-class will be merged into Start-Class or Stub-Class. This should be manually done based on each article's quality.
 * Unstable will be removed from the quality scale. However, I'll include new parameter in Korean to indicate unstable articles.
 * Project, Tool, Category, List will be kept, since they don't require quality assessment. eDenE

So we're changing our assessment scale to bring it in line with the rest of Wikipedia? OK, I can see the logic in that! :) Let me know if anything needs doing, since I guess I'm partly responsible for this I'll try and assist in any way I can. PC78 17:29, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, I forgot to say "thank you!" for bringing up this issue. I wanted to change the names too, but wasn't sure how to do it. Thanks again PC78! eDenE  21:57, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No worries! I was thinking that our assessment page could do to look more like this. If I get chance later today I'll look into it a bit more closely. PC78 07:44, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Userboxes
Not that there's anything wrong with our current userbox (although the image is perhaps a little hard to make out), but I thought I'd have a go at redesigning it anyway. I did this for fun as much as anything else, so I don't mind if people want to stick with what we've got. For what it's worth I kinda like the middle one, but perhaps use of the flags makes it a bit too political? On the other hand, the one on the left matches our fancy new project template.

Any comments will be welcome. Alternatively, should anyone want to edit these userboxes themselves (be my guest!), you can find them in my user sandbox. PC78 17:21, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for offering new userboxes we can use. I agree the middle one is political (and since WP:KO covers more than North and South Korea). The left and right one are both good IMO. If others think one is better, we can vote on it. Good friend100 01:43, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely nice, & make good additions to our current choice. (Wikimachine 16:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC))

Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 13
Another category renaming proposal, this time for the contents of Category:Korea-related articles by working group. The proposed names will more accurately descibe the contents of the subcategories, and bring them in line with Category:Korean military history task force articles (which perhaps should be changed to Category:Korean military history working group articles, but I'm not sure since it also belongs to another WikiProject). PC78 19:33, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Korean baseball task force
I notice that the Baseball WikiProject recently set up a Korean baseball task force. Is this something that should perhaps be integrated into our Project? PC78 03:45, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Baseball is very small field in comparison to our working groups, and there's no manpower to support Korean-baseball articles at this moment. Thus, I would rather create 'Sport' working group and include a section for Baseball, if there's demand for such working group. eDenE  15:58, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not suggesting that we create anything; this Baseball task force, small as it is, already exists, so it shouldn't require too much effort to bring it under this project. Having said that, it doesn't seem to be particuarly active and I'm not even sure that it has any members, so if there's no interest at this end it would only be wasted effort. I don't mind either way, since I'm not really a baseball fan anyway! 'Tis just a suggestion. :) PC78 20:12, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Koreanname
I have rewritten Koreanname -. I've also documented what's been changed and included some examples. Please feel free to poke holes and tell me what you think. eDenE 02:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC) Done. eDenE 03:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the rewrite! But I can already see what might be a bug --- at User:Edene/Sandboxes/01, looks like the image is stretched to the width of the Infobox even though the image tag specifies 70px width? cab 03:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * is the logo that goes on the top-left corner. The image you mentioned is defined by  parameter, in this case  . Unless   is given, the image will be resized to fill the table. I added width=100 to the example for you. :D  eDenE  04:06, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks good! My only crit would be having the image fill the table by default - personally I think it looks nicer with a bit of space around the edges, but that's not really a big deal. Do you intend to make similar changes to the other Korean infoboxes? PC78 13:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I added 10px left & right paddings to the image (there were similar discussion regarding the padding on Koreanname's history). And yes, I'm going to change Korean infoboxes. What do you think about the colours I chose? for South and for North . I'm planning to use these colours for other infoboxes as well. eDenE  22:24, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Better, and your colours are OK with me. :) PC78 23:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * One other thing --- for very long titles which wrap to more than one line, it seems to double-space them (at least in IE), unlike the old template; e.g. see User:CaliforniaAliBaba/Financial Supervisory Commission. Cheers, cab 06:08, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed :) eDenE  11:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

How many members are still active?
We seem to have a lack of contributions/active users lately.. Where has everyone gone? Jegal 19:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I cleaned up the participants page recently. The result is 62, which is not small. Many of them are still actively contributing to Wikipedia and WikiProject Korea. However, it seems like not many people are visiting this page. :( eDenE  21:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

You are right about that. Good friend100 07:11, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we need to be encouraging new members to join. I've redesigned Welcome WPKorea, so please feel free to use it! PC78 18:11, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Most Koreans are stuck in Naver.com. (Wikimachine 00:41, 25 August 2007 (UTC))

Reference desk translation request
There's a short translation request at Reference_desk/Language. The person who posted the request would like a Korean translation of "Sorry, I meant to say, 'I am tired'." If any native Korean speakers would give a translation, that would be great. --Reuben 15:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Hero or heroine of Goguryeo
I have to ask this question. What's the purpose of the userbox hero or heroine of Goguryeo? For example, User:Kprideboi has one. Is this some response to the dispute on Goguryeo? Because that could be POV & the Goguryeo issue is pretty much settled.

I guess this is a direct question to user:Yes0song since he made it here: User:Yes0song/GUS/Proud Goguryeo. Also, that userbox makes me wonder if all those people with that userbox are sock puppets. (Wikimachine 17:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC))

I also don't get. I've never seen this flag before. (Wikimachine 17:51, 19 July 2007 (UTC))

Hello hows things here
Please visit my gallery. I took about 100 pictures at the National Museum of Korea on 7/10/2007. Note that I only have about 25 images uploaded onto Wikipedia as of now. Good friend100 07:10, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

New colours for WikiProject Korea.
I recently chose two colors for Koreanname -  and , each representing South and North. However, there was a objection by User:Badagnani. So I thought it would be nice to have inputs from others regarding color changes. eDenE 21:17, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Which articles are going to use these colors? Mr. Killigan 21:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the lack of description. This colors are to be used by any Korea-related templates, if applicable. eDenE  22:02, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh so for articles that have different names for the north and south? Mr. Killigan 22:50, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - The objection was the unilateral change, a few days ago, without discussion, from the previous Korea template color of "CCF" (a light purple) (see Galbi for this color) to sky blue. The sky blue is too similar, however, to the grayish-blue color of the bar in the template used for China-related articles (see Zha cai for this color). The colors were chosen carefully and there was no reason to change them. Further, it hasn't been made clear here which of the colors below was the previous color used for the top bar of the "Koreanname" template, used previously on the Koreanname template. It should be indicated below which of these colors is CCF and that this color was the default. That color was Internet-safe color "CCF" and I don't see it as any of the choices below. Badagnani 00:43, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * and  are very similar. In fact, #ccccff is clearly blue with the same level of red and green. I really don't understand your claim. This is the colour used in Chinesename . Here's the comparison among the three colours:  eDenE  01:17, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - CCF is light purple and both of the others are blue. You cannot argue that purple and blue are the same color; it just doesn't make sense. Badagnani 02:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strongly object to this poll continuing if the Internet-safe color CCF is not added as one of the options. You simply cannot change the rules by unilaterally deleting the CCF color, which we've used with no problem in the "Koreanname" template up till now, then present an entirely new set of colors, none of which is CCF. I have made a good-faith request above and I expect that it will be followed up on. Badagnani 19:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Did you even look at the table below? Neutral A is #CCF. For this reason I removed option D that you added and changed your answer from D to A. Again, #CCF is not used for all Korea-related articles. #CCF is SIMPLY the default header colour for navigation templates. eDenE  21:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - Did you? The color there is "ccccff," not the Internet-safe color CCF, which we've always used. It was presumptuous of you to make this unilateral change in the first, place, worse that you presented color choices that did not include this color, and even worse that you undid my addition of this original color. Badagnani 02:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * # CCF is a short form of #CCCCFF, and I removed the option you added again. eDenE  02:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Option 2: Use one color

 * 1) Use CCF, the color we had previously, for all Korea-related articles. If consensus is for using two colors, use CCF for South Korea-related articles and some other color (pink doesn't seem like a very good choice, though; as seen here it seems rather obtrusive) for North Korea-related articles. Badagnani 00:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Note that #CCF hasn't been used for all Korea-related articles. #CCF is simply the default header colour for all navigation templates. eDenE  03:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) I think it is best to use a single default color, as for many of these topics national affiliation is a relatively minor property.  It's good to be context-sensitive, which is why we've had context=north and equivalent tools for so long, but we should still keep in mind that the table is defining a Korean name, not (in most cases) a North/South Korean name.  (We probably should have separate colors for Korean district, though.)  Prefer CCF, because I'm an old stick-in-the-mud, but the various other options seem OK too.  -- Visviva 12:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) I've been swayed by Visviva's arguments, so I'm changing my vote! :) In many cases, having different colours for North and South will be a redundant feature anyway - when used alongside other infoboxes, the idea is to change the colour manually so that the two match (eg. Kim Il-sung, Chilbo-san (Gyeonggi)). I still stand by changing the default colour of this infobox; #CCF is used by many unrelated templates, so it wouldn't hurt for us to use something more distinctive. PC78 11:24, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Option 2: Use two colors (for North and South)

 * 1) Support (and Strong oppose option 3 below): Using a different colour for "context=north" seems like a good idea to me (though Badagnani has a valid point about the pink), but I really don't think that using three different colours is the way to go. PC78 19:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Option 3: Use three colors (for North, South, and Korea as a whole)

 * 1) Strong support Having different background colours will help readers to distinguish if the article is North Korea- or South Korea-related, especially for widely used Koreanname and confusing tools such as Gangwon and Kangwon. The third colour is necessary for general Korea-related topics such as history, Korea, etc.  eDenE  03:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Poll 2
Please feel free to propose other colors.

North

 * 1) C  eDenE  03:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) C Wikimachine 04:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) C Mr. Killigan 12:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) A or B, pending a better alternative; C doesn't have enough colour for my liking. PC78 19:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) weak D Visviva 02:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Neutral

 * 1) C  eDenE  03:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) C Wikimachine 04:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) A. This is our original Internet-safe color of CCF, used without any problem for a long time, and which has come to be associated with Korea-related articles. The light blue is too similar to the Chinese infobox color, visible at Chop suey. Badagnani 19:12, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * C, nothing wrong with change. PC78 19:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Anything that is unlike the Chinese color. Mr. Killigan 01:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) weak A Visviva 02:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

South

 * 1) A  eDenE  03:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) B Wikimachine 04:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) A Mr. Killigan 12:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) D. This is the color we've always used, and which has come to be associated with South Korea-related articles. There is no reason to change and the light blue color that is being proposed is too similar to the color used for infoboxes in China-related articles, visible at Chop suey.  Badagnani 19:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Actually, the color at Chop Suey looks more similiar to "D". Mr. Killigan 01:55, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - That doesn't make sense, because the China template is blue and the Korea template is light purple. The proposed color is also blue, which causes confusion with the China template.
 * A, which should be sufficiently different to the blue-gray used in Chinesename to alleviate Badagnani's concerns. PC78 19:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - A is blue and the Chinese template is blue. They're too similar. Badagnani 01:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * There's just no pleasing you is there? As you've already said, the Chinese template is blue-gray; this sky blue is nothing like it. PC78 17:53, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - Retaining CCF, the color we have always used and which has come to be associated with Korea-related articles (and which does not create confusion with China-related articles by also being blue, as is the China template) will please me. Badagnani 23:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) weak D Visviva 02:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Discussion
The structure of this poll does not make sense to me; Poll 2 presupposes a certain outcome from Poll 1, which means that it is quite likely that the two polls will come to incompatible conclusions. And while it's too late to do anything about it, I don't understand why we don't just label specific colors A, B, C, etc., instead of the rather confusing complex-options layout above. -- Visviva 02:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * My intention was to use Neutral color if Option 2 is chosen, use North and South if Option 3 is chosen, and ignore Poll 2 if Option 1 is chosen and... (which I should have explained) Also, having three different rows of colours were to make sure no one chooses the same colour for all three. Since, that's is done by Poll 1. Anyways, sorry about the confusing layout! (my lack of experience in Wikipedia) eDenE  02:33, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Collaboration of the month
Wasn't it supposed to be Science and technology in Korea? Just wondering b/c the redirect is toward Japanese invasions of Korea (1592-1598). By the way I won't be able to work on the science & tech article b/c I'v got all the materials for the Japanese invasions ready & want to finish it as a featured article. (Wikimachine 05:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC))

It is but no one is working on it anymore, I plan on working on it every now and then. Our new collaboration should be Korean swords, Korean armour, Korean knife etc. They have been placed on the to-do list. Jegal 01:50, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Nam tran AfD
Good evening all. An article about Nam tran, '...a famous gangster of Korea from the 1940s.' has come up for AfD. The main need is for verification. Can you help? --Malcolmxl5 20:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Templates for deletion: Korean subway infoboxes
I've nominated no less than ten of these infoboxes for deletion, since they are hardly being used and all pretty much redundant to Koreanname anyway. I mention it here in case anyone sees the value in keeping them, however at the very least they could all be streamlined into a single infobox. PC78 17:31, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

About the official English full name of Seoul
See Talk:Administrative divisions of South Korea#"Special City" or "Metropolitan Government". ― 韓斌 /  Yes0song  (談笑  筆跡  다지모 ) 15:18, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Namwon
About a month ago User:Shamus7792003 contributed a lot of useful photos to the article on Namwon. The only problem is that he didn't provide captions to them and so far hasn't replied to my inquiry about it and I have the creeping feeling that he won't be responding any time soon, so could someone who knows Namwon provide captions to the images?

Also, I'd like to expand the article itself, but I haven't found any sources that are in English (my Korean is limited to a few words and phrases and the ability to read hangul). It would be nice to have more information in the article, e.g. on its history, transportation, etc., especially when virtually half of the prose is on Chun-hyang... -- ざくら 木 19:01, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I can read Korean, but I don't know much about Namwon b/c I don't live in Korea. Let me look at it. (Wikimachine 03:12, 7 August 2007 (UTC))

Goguryeo-Guk
User:Odst WP:PRODed Goguryeo-Guk, because it didn't exist. I unprodded it beccause I found it at the List of Monarchs, Anseung and Geom Mojam referenced as Bodeok. As I am not anything like an expert in Korean history, can someone look at the article, and if it is a hoax as claimed, nominate it for deletion, or if it is real, please add references. 132.205.44.5 22:57, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Hanja or Chinese?
I ask with regard to this edit to the Harisu article. I've been assuming that 河莉秀 is Chinese on the basis that I've only ever seen it used in relation to her Chinese releases (such as this). Is this accurate? I was going to revert these edits, but I want to make I'm right before I do. PC78 10:44, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Her name is an adaption of the english phrase "hot issue." So I assume that her name has Hanja correspondent. But I can't find any news/page talking about her Hanja name. eDenE  13:15, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I really don't know anything about Korean and Chinese languages - could it be that the Chinese and Hanja are in fact the same? If there is a different Hanja name then I've also never seen it used, and believe me, I did extensive research for this article. Given the context in which it's used I shall assume that my original assessment was correct, and shall proceed with the revert. PC78 13:27, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hanja means Chinese characters, and thus in most cases, hanja name and Chinese name are same. When Korea entertainers enter Chinses market, they usually use thier hanja name as a Chinsese name (for example TVXQ). However, some people (for example BoA) don't have hanja name and create Chineses name that mimics the sound of their Korean name. Harisu is a stage name and there is no legal (or official) record defining her hanja name. I guess you can put both Hanja and Chineses name. eDenE  15:20, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The BoA article gives a hanja name in the name table though - presumably this is the Chinese name you refer to? Do you think I should amend the lead of the Harisu article to say "Hanja/Chinese: 河莉秀", or shall I leave it be? PC78 15:50, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * BoA has no hanja name, and thus that table is wrong. There is a brief discussion on her hanja name on her talk page (it seems like no one cares.) Since Harisu has worked in China, I think "Hanja/Chinese:" should be acceptable. eDenE  16:15, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It doesn't seem to be hanja as that term is normally used on Wikipedia (or in English generally). I don't think this needs to be included at all; unlike the hanja forms of hanja-based names, it doesn't provide additional etymological/root information distinguishing the name from others with the same hangul reading.  It's basically just a Chinese name, but we don't normally include non-native non-English versions of personal names (otherwise we could potentially add Russian, Hindi, Thai, Arabic, etc.).  If Harisu's presence on the Chinese market is significant enough to merit a special section in her article, then the name could reasonably be mentioned in that section, but not in the article lead.  -- Visviva 16:43, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all your help trying to get a layman such as myself to understand all this language buisness! I don't agree that it shouldn't be in the lead at all, but it does perhaps require further explanation. However, I'm going to leave it as is for now, or at least until someone comes along and changes it again. Cheers guys! PC78 10:56, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Expert review: Ildeung Electronics
As part of the Notability wikiproject, I am trying to sort out whether Ildeung Electronics is notable enough for an own article. I would appreciate an expert opinion. For details, see the article's talk page. If you can spare some time, please add your comments there. Thanks! --B. Wolterding 15:19, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Correct romanization of the possessive suffix ("의") should be...?
I just found that the Korean title for the movie Memories of Murder is transcribed as "Salinui Chueok". Now, the "l" is clearly wrong --- it should be "r".

But how about this troubling "ui"? The thing is, that Korean possessive suffix "의(ui)" (equivalent to English "'s") is usually pronounced as "/에/ (e)". Also, the standard seems to dictate that, when the sound and the spelling differs, the Romanization should follow the sound. (For example, the Seoul subway station "학여울" is written "Hangnyeoul", even when there is no "n" sound in the spelling.)

I think this is a grey area, but is there anybody here who can dig up some reference? I think the movie in question should be written as "Sarin-e Chueok", but I'm sure people will disagree. Ahh, the fun of flaming others with esoteric transcription rules... Yongjik 18:20, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, the 표준어규정 (Article 2 Paragraph 5, available here and elsewhere) specifies only that the particle 의 may be pronounced either as 에 or as 의. Given that both pronunciations are acceptable, it makes sense to default to the romanization which clearly represents the written form, namely "ui."  I note that the RR standard specifically excepts ㅢ pronounced as ㅣ from the representation-of-pronunciation criterion, although separate case of the particle 의 is not mentioned.  -- Visviva 19:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Need a little help with some Korean text
Can someone who reads hangul please take a look at Jang Jin-young for me? I've used two Korean sources in this article (ref #2 & 24) and I want to make sure that they both support what I've written in the article. Thanks in advance! PC78 01:49, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Cheers Visviva! PC78 10:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Template:Koreanname → Template:Infobox Korean name
In case anyone hasn't seen it, a proposal has been made for moving Koreanname to Infobox Korean name. The discussion can be found here. Regards. PC78 10:45, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Su Dingfang
I've recently expanded the article Su Dingfang. Given that I don't know Korean, I was unable to use Korean transliterations for members of Baekje's royal household, and I had to use Hanyu Pinyin. Assistance on that issue would be appreciated. (Ideally, I think both Revised Romanization and Pinyin should be used.) --Nlu (talk) 20:51, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Done. :) Yongjik 01:36, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --Nlu (talk) 04:49, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Template:Korean district
I've done a complete rewrite of Korean district (see User:PC78/Sandbox8/a), using the current version of Infobox Korean name as the base. The new template has a number of extra fields and will be able to hold two images instead of one, which means it will supersede others such as Infobox City Korea and Infobox Korean province, and we'll be left with just one infobox for all Korean places. :) I also propose giving the template a more ambiguous name, such as Infobox Korean settlement.

I've put together a few examples of the new template in action, so it can be compared against what we've got at the moment:
 * Suncheon: current → new
 * Incheon: current → new
 * Jeju-do: current → new

Any comments or crits would be welcome before I implement the change, so let me know what you think! :) PC78 08:29, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your works. It should be implemented.Wikimachine 21:05, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The new template is now in place. Everything looks fine, but if there are any problems then please let me know. PC78 01:56, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Good work! Thanks for your work on all these templates.  -- Visviva 07:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Again thx for your contributions. The welcome template for inviting recruits was useful for me today. Also, especially the rebuild of all the boxes etc should make the project visually more pleasing & more attractive for new recruits. I didn't realize how many Korean Wikipedians there were - they just aren't here. I think that some of our very best editors have left or got bored so we need a new generation of editors - long live the 2nd generation (those who joined 1.5~2 yrs ago)! (1st generation would include Visviva & Kokiri, right?) Nvm. (Wikimachine 03:06, 29 August 2007 (UTC))

(Another) New infobox
I'm in the process of creating another new infobox (see User:PC78/Sandbox9/a), a kind of variant of Infobox Korean name that will be able to display names in other languages. It's still a work-in-progess - the main thing I want to do is try and get it to swap the order of names - but hopefully it should be ready soon. All comments will be welcomed! :) PC78 00:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't it be better to have the American name instead of the Russian? I think its more significant. Anyways, good job on the template. =) Good friend100 01:50, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * American? (I assume you mean English?) I don't think that's really necessary, since this is the English-language Wikipedia. Russian name is something that would actually be needed in a few articles. Regards. PC78 14:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

OK then, Template:Infobox East Asian is now up and running! To be honest I was a little hesitant to follow through with this, as I've seen the Chinese template creeping into an increasing number of articles, some of which have very little or nothing to do with China. Still, I don't think these two templates are entirely the same thing, and it was already coded anyway, so best to put it out there and see what happens. :) PC78 21:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

rating articles
Who can rate articles and put the rating on the infobox? If you can, how can you do it? Good friend100 02:48, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

For example, go to talk page of a Korea-related article. Edit Talk. See this? Change the "B" in class to C D or A, and importance to top, middle, and low. (Wikimachine 15:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC))

May Lee
I request for May Lee, Korean American anchor of CNN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crispy park (talk • contribs) 06:11, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * start the article yourself if your interested. Good friend100 14:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * At User:CaliforniaAliBaba/May Lee, feel free to add if you know other sources; I raised a request to have this moved into the mainspace at May Lee (which is currently occupied by a video game character). And anyone know her Korean name? all the Korean sources just refer to her as 메이 리. Cheers, cab 00:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Good friend100
Quiet recently, today, Good friend100, who started this project on September 14, 2006 (approx. 1 yr ago), got banned permanently for violating 3RR 7 times (over the long haul). I thought that might be relevant to here. (Wikimachine 21:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC))

That wasn't very smart of him, still its sad that he had to go, didn't he plan on quitting anyhow? Jegal 23:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Liu Rengui
Similar to my request with Su Dingfang above, I'd like help with Korean renditions of two names in Liu Rengui -- specifically, 遲首信 (Chi Shouxin in pinyin), the last Baekje general who tried to hold out even after Buyeo Pung fled, and 金仁問 (Jin Renwen in pinyin), the brother of Munmu of Silla, whom Emperor Gaozong of Tang tried for sometime to maintain as a rival candidate for the Silla throne. Assistance would be appreciated. Thanks. --Nlu (talk) 04:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Done! (Wow, my hanja is really rusty. I had to visit online dictionary to find out the sound of "ji" 遲... and it's listed there as a middle school level character! Geez...) Yongjik 03:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks! --Nlu (talk) 13:02, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Can somebody look at the Wiryeseong article?
It currently says that Baekje's first capital, Wiryeseong, might be in Chinese Liaodong... And I found something fishy about who inserted that sentence. See Talk:Wiryeseong. Someone more knowledgeable than me, please leave a comment. Thanks! Yongjik 09:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Ban Ki-moon
In case anyone missed it on the notice board, Ban Ki-moon is currently a featured article candidate. PC78 18:05, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ban Ki-moon article has successfully passed FA. I've updated the selected biography on Korean Portal. Congratulations. (Wikimachine 04:05, 12 September 2007 (UTC))

Naming convention question
It seems like Sunjong of Korean Empire should either be at Sunjong of Korea or Sunjong of the Korean Empire. My instinct would be the former, but I see it was moved from there to its current location by User:Korea history some months ago with the reason "As Korea it does simply and it does not become. Why cotton are Korea and Korea empire are because is a difference." Not sure what that means, but I figured I'd put the matter here since it might be a politically sensitive issue as indicated by the "pretender" infobox. Luatha 09:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, "Sunjong of Korea" sounds problematic to me, because "Korea" is such an overloaded term... it's unclear exactly which Korean dynasty it refers to. I'd suggest simply "Sunjong of Joseon" or "Emperor Sunjong of Joseon", but various history articles seem to refer to Joseon and the Korean Empire as two separate nations... Now, that sounds very weird to me.  As far as I remember, Koreans always say that the Joseon dynasty fell on 1910 (when it became a colony of Japan), not 1897 (when it became the Korean Empire).  Many regard the Korean Empire as merely yet another name adopted by the Joseon dynasty just before its demise.  There is no substantial change between the two, unlike when the Goryeo dynasty gave way to Joseon, but just a change of names.


 * But now I'm touching a politically sensitive topic, I guess. I'm a humble CS major, what do I know about history? (shrug)


 * By the way, speaking of User:Korea history, he must be a crackpot. And he is praised by various fellow crackpots... look at his talk page!  I see more Korean language there (whole paragraphs) than in the whole rest of English wikipedia...  And those Korean paragraphs say (sort of) "We must fight against Japanese and Chinese!  Koreans, let's fight together for Korea!"  Argh.  Yongjik 01:17, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Some of them are ok, I can only guess that they're rising 7th graders still learning stuffs about life. But some of the JPOV & CPOV dudes are no better. (Wikimachine 04:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC))


 * Ah, the power of choding. (A Korean slang for "elementary schoolers": they have a reputation of being invincible online.  Think velociraptors in Jurrasic Park.)


 * I agree with you think you must be right on JPOV & CPOV matter. (I'm relatively new here, I don't know much about them.)  It's just that my sense of patriotism works in a pervert way---I'm much more irritated at Korean crackpots than Chinese or Japanese crackpots.  Yongjik 05:02, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Call for help with Korean references for Starcraft articles
Hi,

After recent AfDs on Protoss and Zerg (see Articles for deletion/Protoss and Articles for deletion/Zerg), it was concluded that these Starcraft-related articles have a compelling need for references to Korean-language sources. Any Starcraft fans around this Wikiproject who understand Korean, your help would be very valuable.

Thanks. - Reaverdrop (talk/nl) 09:25, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Request small help on Commons
In Commons:Category:Seattle Korean Cultural Celebration, I think we now have the food pretty well sorted out, but if someone can improve descriptions and add any appropriate categories for the pictures of dancing and of people in traditional clothing, that would be much appreciated. - Jmabel | Talk 06:04, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a fascinating selection of rare Buddhist monk-style foods that one almost never sees in Korean restaurants in North America. This item is particularly interesting; I'd never heard of it but apparently it's a type of lichen. Does anyone know the species name? Badagnani 06:55, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

List of Asian Americans and other lists nominated for deletion
List of Asian Americans and a whole bunch of other lists have been nominated for deletion. If you have an opinion, please vote at the AfD. Please see Articles for deletion/Log/2007 September 12 for all the lists that have been nominated for deletion. Badagnani 01:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/List of Asian Americans
 * Articles for deletion/List of Chinese Americans (2nd nomination)
 * Articles for deletion/List of Korean Americans
 * Articles for deletion/List of Cambodian Americans
 * Articles for deletion/List of Filipino Americans
 * Articles for deletion/List of Hmong Americans


 * I've moved this over from the notice board given that all of these AfD's have now been withdrawn. For those who are interested, the discussion regarding these lists continues here. PC78 18:05, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Korean-Americans and Need Hangul/Hanja Tag
Is it really necessary? Somehow I doubt many Korean-Americans know the Hanja for their own name... Konamaiki 06:40, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Should apply only when relevant. (Wikimachine 02:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC))


 * If they have a Christian first name instead of a Korean one, it obviously doesn't need hanja. But if they have a Korean first name, hanja would explain the meaning behind the name, which is significant if their parents named them a specific name for a reason. Badagnani 02:36, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Even 2nd-gen overseas kids with local (e.g. English) first names typically have a Korean name given by their parents (either informally, or registered as their middle name), so this doesn't seem like an especially good dividing line. Don't quite see how parents come into it either as the choice of which given name to use is the individual's, not the parents'. Personally I'd say add hanja for overseas Koreans where available (unfortunately, local Chinese-language ethnic media tend to be the only possible source in this regard, and they're known for making up absolutely implausible shit, like "周水辉" for Seung-hui Cho), but don't specifically tag them as "hanja=!" regardless of what given name (local or Korean) they prefer to use.

My other question would be, should we even bother with the infobox for articles on overseas Koreans where all the references to them in Korean media don't even use a Korean name, but just the transcription of the local name (e.g. Anita Tsoi, Valery Kan, May Lee)? I guess the main uses are so that: Cheers, cab 03:12, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) The article shows up on a Google search for the Korean transcription
 * 2) People who want to look for Korean-language articles on a given person can just copy-and-paste into Google rather than try to guess how the name got transcribed


 * Well, we can't really blame local Chinese media. They have to write something in place of someone's name, don't they?  If they fail to send a reporter across the Pacific to find the closest relative and dig up the three characters that only their parents care about, it's hardly their fault.  Chinese name helps especially for historic persons, and it certainly wouldn't harm to add it when available, but for contemporary Koreans, it hardly means anything.  Heck, I don't even remember my mom's name in Hanja!  I'll bet if we ask Korean high school students to write their names in Hanja, a significant proportion will have to ask their parents and/or look up the dictionary.  Yongjik 01:15, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that it's fine to include hangul and hanja when they are known and come from a reliable source, and best to leave them out otherwise. No need to guess or use phonetic versions from Chinese media that may not have any more significance to the person than 乔治·沃克·布什 does to the president.  --Reuben 01:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Republic of Korea Passport
I just recently created a new article about Korean Passport yesterday. I think I need help expanding it. The article also has to be on the Korean-related articles list. Kingj123 20:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, great job. Like I said below you should try to get some cites. (Wikimachine 01:42, 24 September 2007 (UTC))

Manhwa
If we have any users who are familiar with Manhwa and could contribute to the article and especially the List of manhwa article any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Jegal 20:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Standards
I think that the standards here among editors interested in Korea-related topics are too low. Nobody cites anything - for example, the Korean War. An article as large as that should have about 100~150 cites. However, it used to have something like 30 & now it's grown to 50 (a big improvement). Another example is Japanese invasions of Korea (1592-1598). I'm half way done with rewriting the article which used to be 100% original research & uncited. Unless you guys make the efforts to cite your own edits, I can't get that article to featured article status. (Wikimachine 01:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC))

Also, a cited article is much less likely to be disputed & much less likely to cause trouble b/c those POV ppl think that a well built article is done by professionals & watched by many editors so they don't want to cause any trouble there. Also it's really hard to dispute a cited statement. (Wikimachine 01:44, 24 September 2007 (UTC))

Go look at WP:JP. See how many FA there are? Many reasons for WP:KO's lag & slow progress - first of all, there are too many ppl who can't write (i.e. English) but are willing to make quick edits & swiftly gain self-esteem, etc. Also, not many ppl are interested in Korea --> much less editors & among that smaller pool of editors there'll be much less skilled editors. And about that pool of editors, it's my opinion but they're mostly school kids (i.e. no college students & professionals). And then some ppl think they're uber good & put lv 9 English babel. Let's be more realistic. (Wikimachine 01:48, 24 September 2007 (UTC))

well, there seems to be a lack of editors in general these days, not many members are active like their used to be, btw I have a hectic school year but my main focus is still on the Science and Technology Article. Jegal 02:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I seriously don't understand how there aren't more editors from S. Korea when it's one of the most wired countries ever. (Wikimachine 03:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC))


 * Good points, everyone. Maybe people have come to take Wikipedia for granted, and think it's pretty much "finished" (though we know that's far from true). Or maybe people got tired of working on it for no pay...? Badagnani 03:52, 25 September 2007 (UTC)




 * As someone who works in the Korean IT industry, I can attest that the hype about Korea being "a leading nation of IT" is total bullshit. Yes, in terms of wiredness, we are supreme.  The fantastic amount of bandwidth is very well used in illegally downloading movies and manwha, playing StarCraft, Lineage, and WoW, and, most of all, soaking web pages with useless flashes and ActiveX.  (If you don't know what ActiveX is, consider yourself lucky.  It is a cursed MS technology that binds a web page to Intel/Windows/IE combination, and totally inhibits anybody else from using the page.  Try visiting a .go.kr page---any page---and chances are that you won't be able to click anything.)


 * In terms of contents generation, Korea sucks. It's not particular to Wikipedia: it's just a general nature of Korean online community.  In short, it is a given fact; we can't change it.  We have to work with it.  Some people think that the figure to the right is at least partly to blame---anybody who is intelligent enough to write a meaningful article in English works till night, 6 days a week, and need to sleep in the rest of the time.  Sorry if the image is too big.  Yongjik 01:35, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * In other words, let's consider, say, Korean War. We can't just google everything; to start, we need to know what to look for.  Ideally, someone to write a serious encyclopedia-class article on Korean War should know a dozen important battles during Korean War, scores of generals and politicians, and have read (at the very minimum) a book or two on the subject.  Thus, we have to find someone
 * who has read at least a book on Korean War,
 * can write good English,
 * and has enough free time to actually do it on Wikipedia.
 * Factor in the working-time figure, and the extremely poor average English skill of Koreans. Someone who satisfies two among these three is rare.  I guess less than fifty people in Korea satisfy all three criteria simultaneously, and I expect them to have other hobbies to spend time. :(  Yongjik 01:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Korean terrorists
Please see the vandalous additions from user:LactoseTI and user:Komdori in the Korean biography articles about Korean independence activists. They have categorized them as terrorists. Rfc is at Talk:An Jung-geun (however it has drawn no outside opinions so far).


 * Talk:An Jung-geun
 * Talk:Yoon Bong-Gil‎

(Wikimachine 21:39, 26 September 2007 (UTC))


 * FYI---Oddly enough, the Korean articles for An Jung-geun (ko:안중근) and Yoon Bong-gil (ko:윤봉길), as well as Kim Gu (ko:김구), had the "category:terrorist" tag until recently. Page histories show the tag being inserted and then deleted by many different people (mostly Koreans, as far as I can tell).  The problem(?) is that their act might (or might not) satisfy the dictionary definition of terrorism.


 * As for me, I don't know enough about terrorism to comment either way. (Sorry!)  Frankly, I simply don't see the value of having a "terrorist category" at all, other than providing yet another means of starting POV war over a dozen articles simultaneously... Yongjik 06:50, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Of course you do, and yes there's point of having "terrorist" category - it should be used properly. Look, I think you're NPOV sweating - something that every potential & good-faithed editors new to Wikipedia go through. You're too worried about your NPOV that you justify the opposite of what you'd normally view as right or appropriate. Wikipedia's NPOV policy specifies that NPOV does not justify prescription. (Wikimachine 14:55, 29 September 2007 (UTC))

Koreans are... Posterity of Heaven? What?
This article "Posterity of Heaven," arguing that Koreans regarded themselves as "offsprings of Heaven," is full of dubious claims. It all looks like original research, or "connecting dots" to create a picture when there is none. Cites only two references, neither of which looks quite credible.

With the level of reasoning so low, we might equally have argued that any culture considered themselves as offsprings of heaven. I propose that this article should be deleted to improve the average standard of Korea-related articles. Shall I file a removal request? Yongjik 08:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * delete as per no original research. 74.12.79.196 12:35, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Probably best taking it to WP:AfD. PC78 15:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Filed AfD: Articles_for_deletion/Posterity of Heaven. Yongjik 02:26, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The Rev. Sun-Myung Moon believes that the Korean language is the world's only "perfect" language--does that count? Badagnani 04:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm, IMHO, that will only serve to show that what kind of a religious nut Moon is. Besides, somehow I doubt that Reverend Moon would approve ancient Korean shamanistic tradition... Yongjik 06:32, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

PreHistory of Korea ( Prior to 3 dynasties)
Hello. I am inetersted in Korean cultutre and history, and am looking to research the prehistory of korea...eofre the 3 dynasties/kingdoms. I dont know much about the comuter and am very confused ecause it seems like there are two "sets" of thee kingdoms.....can anyody direct me in the right direction?

I am intetersted in the martial arts, and will be doing a thesis on the prehistory as part of my black belt exam. I have seen alot of information about the 3 kingdoms and after, but not so much on prior history.

thank you

jsd829 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsd829 (talk • contribs) 01:59, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Refer to Stone Age, Bronze Age, Gojoseon, tribal states, Proto-three Kingdoms and Korean martial arts Jegal 04:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Adding food articles
Hi guys. I've been assessing a ton of articles for the Food Project recently, as part of which I've also tried to add national Project tags as appropriate. So you may find some new additions to that might need a look - from memory most of them were pretty stubby/Starty. There may also be a few that were added to the main Korea Project before I discovered that you had a dedicated cuisine group, so apologies for that and feel free to add the appropriate tag! Cheers FlagSteward 13:11, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Ko Ba Woo
Do we have an article about Ko Ba Woo, an old Korean cartoon character? I may have the wrong romanization but can't find it under any permutations of spelling that I've tried. Badagnani 04:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I think it's 고바우. Does anyone know anything about this? Badagnani 08:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah just look it up on daum or even google. But then again my advice to you would be to not overstep other editors on topics you know little to nothing about.melonbarmonster 19:00, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Great, thanks, why don't you create the article about this, then, using whichever romanization you feel is most appropriate? I've already made quite a few on Korea-related topics, such as List of Korean traditional instruments, Important Intangible Cultural Properties, expanded Korean wine, etc. It's great fun documenting these things for the world to know about. And whatever one of us doesn't know, other knowledgeable editors can add to. It's a wonderful and gratifying process. Badagnani 19:03, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The full name is 고바우 영감 (Go Ba-u Yeonggam); there is a short article on KO about the series. Ko Ba Woo does seem to be the most common romanization. -- Visviva 01:50, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Korean War article
Hi all. I'm wondering if some of the people in this task force can lend some assistance to the Korean War article. Several sections need a massive rewrite, and I feel myself and another editor are going round in circles on the latest edits to the 'Proposed use of nuclear weapons' section. We're probably both wrong, so some outside assistance on getting some of the sections cleaned up, especially from a different POV would be welcome. Thanks. wbfergus undefinedTalk 12:53, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Move Chinilpa (친일파) to an English name?
I proposed movement to "Korean collaborators to Japanese colonial government" in the Talk:Chinilpa page. Perhaps there's an even better name. Please give us your opinion at Talk:Chinilpa.

I think the article shouldn't be named chinilpa, which is not an English word and lends itself to a number of misunderstanding... Until recently the article started with "[Chinilpa] is a Korean slur for pro-Japanese Koreans..." IMHO, it gave the impression that Koreans are a bunch of assholes who would scold fellow Koreans for liking anything Japanese. Yongjik 09:39, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Ahn Chang-Ho
My son is doing TaeKwon-Do and on the sheet he has to learn it says that the pattern he is currently learning is "Do-San" which is named after Ahn Chang-Ho who lived from 1876 to 1938. The Wiki page on him says 1878, as do various other pages if you google for him. Does anyone know for sure? --Xoke 14:52, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

1878. See Google results from Korean pages. (Wikimachine 19:04, 5 October 2007 (UTC))

About the Wikiproject Korea logo...
Could we color all the Korean peninsula in one single color, instead of showing the two divided Koreas as now? It's somewhat depressing to see my country divided so clearly... Yongjik 08:03, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It is depressing, but it's also a fact, and we are here to document facts. -- Visviva 01:51, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It could alternately, be divided into the Three Kingdoms... 132.205.99.122 (talk) 20:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Translation needed
Someone left this in the climate section of Namwon:

남원의 연평균기온은 12.7℃이고 1월평균기온은 0.4℃ 이고 7월평균기온은 25.9℃이다. 남원이 산등성이에 있기때문에 남원의 기후는 다르게 변한다. 바람은 겨울에 약하게 남에서 서로 불고 여름에 서에서 서로 분다.

What does it say? -- ざくら 木 13:13, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "The average yearly temperature in Namwon is 12.7 ℃, the average January temperature is 0.4 ℃, and the average temperature in July is 25.9 ℃. The climate in Namwon is different than elsewhere because of mountains and prevailing seasonal winds. Winds are light in the winter and blow in from the south, while in the summers winds come from the west." 74.12.80.137 20:36, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration on Liancourt Rocks
Due to some lobbying, & simple laziness/neglect (& possibly 1 of the arbitrators could be 1 of the disputants - for variety of reasons), I'm on the verge of getting blocked for 1 year. I trust that many editors who have worked with me to improve Korea-related articles in the last 2 years have very positive image of me & would disagree with the currently very possible outcome. I'd appreciate it if anyone would voice their opinion on this matter. (Wikimachine 20:20, 18 October 2007 (UTC))


 * Can you provide the link, or is that considered against the rules? wbfergus undefinedTalk 10:15, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Here's the arbitration link.74.12.76.28 12:20, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Not sure what I can say or do. That page seems to be only for the admins to cast their votes on, and it only needs one more vote to close the issue. All of the other 'voting issues' have already met the 4 vote minimum. On the few articles where we have both made edits, I have no problem with Wikimachine's edits. I have not been involved with Liancourt Rocks at all, and know nothing about it, other than just some vague recollections that there are many things disputed by Japan and other countries. I really can't comment on those either way, as they are beyond my knowledge. If the ban goes through, Wikimachine's edits will be missed on the few articles where we have overlapped. For others reading this, about all I can do is offer a bit of advice to watch your behaviour before things get to this point. Follow policies (even as convoluted as they are), use RfC's, request 3rd opinions early, and use reliable and verifiable sources constantly, especially when making an edit that someone may consider controversial, especially if they are trying to uphold a POV. I'm sorry I can't offer much more than that. wbfergus undefinedTalk 13:20, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Request for Outside Views
Hello contributors to the Korea Project! I was wondering if anyone would be willing to take a look at a few articles and lend a much-needed outside opinion. I'm particularly interested in the views of admins or long-time contributors, since one user has accused others (including me) of puppetry. The sites are involving Korean universities. Please especially consider taking a look if you did not attend any of these fine institutions, as the more neutral an opinion, the better.

1) Korea_University Problem: I believe this site is written like an advertisement WP:ADS (you can see what I said on the KU talk page or my own user profile) and stated my intentions to take a look at it. This provoked a rather nasty reply on my own talk page as well as the talk page of Korea_University. I still intend to try and improve the article to make it more encyclopedic, but I have stopped trying to come to agreement on the talk page because there is only one user responding- and I have no interest in continuing a useless conversation with him until I actually have re-written the article so that I can show him what I mean. I decided to improve the article but had no idea this would happen.

2) Sungkyunkwan_University The same user as above has decided that I am a student of Sungkyunkwan (false) and intends to try and 'retaliate' by attacking that site. I prefer not to be further involved with this user (he is misquoting me and continuing to act uncivil) so if anyone who is unconnected and can remain neutral would like to step in and help, please do.

In whole, I think all the universities (and even the article on SKY) could use the help of some neutrality to add to Wp:npov. If anyone is willing to take a look (and especially if you can not be accused of being a puppet, etc) please do! After some snarky remarks from myself (especially when it was suggested that I "leave" Korea) I've decided I will stay away from the issue except to try and improve the article- in other words, I want to stay away from the talk pages unless there are other people there besides myself and one opposed user. Frankly, I'm open to ideas, and I think an informal request for review by those who know the topics best is a good idea. Thanks to all! Epthorn 16:40, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The Korea University page is pretty blatantly NPOV, hopefully there can be a consensus without stepping on too many toes. Konamaiki 03:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Another request for outside views
I'm attempting to informally mediate a dispute between two users at Dano (Korean festival), but since I have limited factual knowledge of the subject, I wondered whether anyone here might be willing/able to add their perspective to things. Thanks! -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 15:04, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Anti-Korean spin on Wang In
Notoriously anti-Korean user User:Nanshu has moved and rewritten an article I started a while ago: Wang In. It is certainly much longer now, but he managed to give it an biased anti-Korean spin under Wani_(scholar). Unsourced controversial statements have to go, but I'm sure this user will take any substantial edit to the page personally... --Himasaram 08:38, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Interwiki help needed
Hello, all. I need some help with an interwiki link for ko:김민우 (스케이트 선수). Based on the fact that the person is categorized as a Korean figure skater, has a birth date of Feb 5, 1986, and a mostly-useless machine translation said that the person was in a car accident, I think the article may correspond to Kim Min Woo. However, there are none of the usual things I look for to validate that it is the same person before making an interwiki link. Can anyone who reads Korean help me out?

Thanks. :) Kolindigo 03:27, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * You are right, the subject of each article is the same person. 74.12.73.154 12:54, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Great! Thank you. :) Kolindigo 19:06, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Expansion of article -- requesting Korean perspective
Over the next week or two, I'll be gradually expanding the article Emperor Taizong's campaign against Goguryeo. In doing so, I am fully cognizant of the fact that my sources are (ancient) Chinese in nature (except for Bo Yang's modern Chinese translation of the Zizhi Tongjian) and may exhibit a Chinese bias even though I strive hard to avoid it, and so any help in neutralizing that potential bias will be appreciated. I will also need assistance with Korean romanizaiton of people/place names, since I have no knowledge of Korean. Again, it won't be done in one chunk -- I'm likely to be doing bits and pieces starting tomorrow -- and I would appreciate it if people can periodically check in and assist.

Some of you might ponder why this article was necessary given the existence of Goguryeo-Tang Wars. Effectively, I see this article as a sub-article of both that article and Emperor Taizong of Tang -- an intersectional subarticle, if you will. That's because, in the case of Emperor Taizong's article, it was way, way too big and required cutting, and therefore, with agreement from other editors, I reduced the amount of material on his campaigns and put them into subarticles (see Talk:Emperor Taizong of Tang/Archives/2023/October for details) that I promised to expand -- but only got to one by one recently. Meanwhile, I see the Goguryeo-Tang Wars article as one that should be about overall aspects of the conflict between the two states, where the article that I'll be expanding will concentrate (although not be exclusive) about the 645 campaign. Hopefully, it will stimulate a rewrite of the Goguryeo-Tang Wars article as well to be better written and organized overall as well. Eventually, I may write a Emperor Gaozong's campaign against Goguryeo article as well to cover the 666-668 campaign, depending on how big the Emperor Gaozong of Tang article will get after expansion (which is my next project after this one). Thanks in advance for help. --Nlu (talk) 04:30, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Your an administrator, there shouldn't be any substantial bias in you ;) I'll watch the article. Good friend100 22:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks! --Nlu (talk) 01:33, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I have completed the expansion. Again, Korean perspective as well as Korean romanization and/or Hangul, where appropriate (don't overdo it :-) -- see both WP:MOS-KO and WP:MOS-ZH) would be appreciated. --Nlu (talk) 18:39, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Was Goryeo occupied by "Yuan Dynasty"?
See Image:Territories of Dynasties in China.gif. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.28.177.33 (talk • contribs)


 * A problem with the image is whether it counts vassals. It appears not to, in which case it all depends on the time point the image was referring to.  For a time, the Mongols occupied most of modern Korea -- but not for very long.  (For more details, see Mongol invasions of Korea.)  --Nlu (talk) 06:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Intervention requested on Wei Man
Please see Wei Man and Talk:Wei Man. We have an editor who edit wars and who appears to believe that any reference to Chinese romanization is Chinese aggrandization and also makes derogatory remarks toward Chinese people in general without actually backing up his arguments with logic. As the editor apparently now believes that I'm part of the "Chinese aggrandization," I am hoping that somebody who would not be viewed in that manner can at least step in and get him to argue logically, if not stop this behavior entirely. Such intervention would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. --Nlu (talk) 05:09, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Stop abusing the category "Anti-Japanese sentiment in Korea"
Certain Korean editors are adding this category to every freaking article on Japanese figures, institutions, and Japan-related events in the early 20th century just because some Korean nationalists hate them. You don't include articles on George W. Bush, the Republican Party, etc. in the Anti-Americanism category just because anti-American persons typically hate them (or Jewish politicians in the anti-Semitism category). Stop the madness already. --Saintjust (talk) 19:33, 17 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If it continues, report them to an administrator. Its not like Korean editors from WP:KO planned it or anything. Good friend100 (talk) 14:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Mass deletion discussion on Rail stations
Articles for deletion/Taepyeong Station - about 250 in the list. Needs some qualified opinions - Peripitus (Talk) 00:08, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thankfully, the recent proposal for 250 of the articles under our scope to be deleted has been quashed, but it does raise a reasonable point: that many of our articles have little beyond a sentence, so I'd like to encourage us all to gather information from the equivalent articles in Korean Wikipedia and expand our articles. This could help us avoid any such criticism in the future.  An example of one I've been working on in this manner and which I think is now at a stage from which it's more viable as an article, is Sungkyunkwan University Station.  If we could have something along the lines of the London Underground articles, that would be amazing.  I know there are far many people there editing and researching, photographing and documenting, but we can at least aim for such a level and I'm sure we'll advance well and havea  much more tenable position.  JPBarrass (talk) 09:22, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Sealand Youth Training Center fire - Name list of victims?
Hi! I tried to make a list of the victims of the Sealand Youth Training Center fire - I know the names of some ("Kim Se-ra" and "Bae Han-sol") are revealed in English, but not all are. Is there a reliable source that has the whole list of victims? WhisperToMe (talk) 02:59, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

信誠
Can someone let me know what is the Revised Romanization for 信誠 (Xincheng in pinyin)? Thanks in advance. (If you want to insert it yourself, it's for Emperor Gaozong of Tang.) --Nlu (talk) 23:40, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The monk's name 信誠 is romanized as Sinseong in Revised romanized Korean. Not sure how you wanted it to be indicated in the text of Emperor Gaozong of Tang and so I didn't directly add it. Phlegmswicke of Numbtardia (talk) 21:07, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --Nlu (talk) 21:35, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

AfD
There's an article I've put up for AfD on behalf of another user: Goguryeo-Guk and Articles for deletion/Goguryeo-Guk. I'd like to request if anyone can help me confirm this is a hoax or otherwise, thanks. x42bn6 Talk Mess 14:06, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Goguryeo-Guk has been nominated for deletion as a hoax. As the talk page clearly says that it's not, I've changed the hoax tag to accuracy tag. 132.205.99.122 (talk) 20:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

RfC: Byung shin chum
There is a content dispute over the article Byung shin chum. --Saintjust (talk) 07:38, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Watch out, Japanese user's fabrication
Yeongeunmun Gate. some Japanese user edit like this. It's purely fabrication. cite is nothing,too. see discussion page. nobody prove it. be concerned about this article's fabrication. 774townsclear 11:40, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Brand new Article for Korea
Please help me expanding this brand new article Architecture of South Korea. I first copied word for word from Korean architecture, we need to expand our original texts. Kingj123 16:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Can you guys upload images directly to Commons?
Well, from the abvoe thread, I acknowledge again that there are so many good pictures of Korea. Some of images can be used for Gangreung, or Shin Saimdang, or Yi Yulgok. Unless the images are not in the commons, only a few people who are engaging in the relevant articles know where the images are placed. I've been moving many many images from English or Korean wiki to commons, but 저는 뒷처리반이 아닙니다. -_- Please upload pictures directly to Commons. If so, I would really appreciate you guys' effort. --Appletrees 17:25, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

American Taekwondo Federation
The article American Taekwondo Federation appears to be basically an ad for a Las Vegas Taekwondo dojang, and possibly will be deleted. However, the article may contain some content that we wish to include in other articles. (However please check for copyvios first.) -- Writtenonsand 20:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Chinese swords
Chinese swords has been nominated for deletion at Articles for deletion/Chinese swords 132.205.99.122 (talk) 22:33, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * So has Japanese swords 132.205.99.122 (talk) 22:07, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Grading importance scale.
I lately figure out the assessment system of WPKorea. I've added my input to some articles without grade scale. But as for film and history, I can't assume which movie is how much important. I think a movie which get a notable award or hauls great amount of viewer can receive "high" grade by our assessment system. But as time goes by, currently popular movies could've been regarded as trivial movies by people. If there are editors into Korean film and history working group, please enlighten me on the matter. Thanks --Appletrees (talk) 14:54, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about these importance ratings either... These films are being rated in relation to the overall Korea project and the general Film project. Since there is no specific Korean film project, it's unlikely that any Korean film is going to be rated above "mid" in importance. Even a film that receives a lot of awards and an international audience-- how important is that in relation to the Korea project as a whole?... I do think something like Farewell to the Duman River is pretty important for Korean film, since it established a major director's career, and, apparently, was a major hit at the time. But as far as the Film project in general? It's probably pretty low. Few people outside of Korea would have heard of it, and it has little coverage in English (or other non-Korean) sources... If anyone wants to make a Korean film project, I'd be very happy to join it and do a lot of work for that project. But I think the ratings of yours that I've seen, in relation to the Korea project, are pretty accurate, Appletrees. Dekkappai (talk) 22:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the answer. I'm afraid that I've made you keep waiting for my following answer so long. I don't know what to say about the "new" project proposal because my movie taste is not toward popular Korean movies. I can occasionally engage in several Korean film articles, but have to deal with lots of other culture fields. However, I believe that there would be potential participants faithfully into Korean film articles. Hmm.. As fo my rating on Farewell to the Duman River, you can change the rate to what you think is suitable. The movie is surely the turning point of Im Kwon-taek but many young people don't know the movie. Personally, I want to give higher rate to Spider Forest directed by Song Il-gon, but it did gain a success when it was screening in South Korea. I'm happy to see the unexpected article here. :) --Appletrees (talk) 23:13, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'm a big fan of Spider Forest also, and I'm gathering sources to re-write that article. (Currently it has a lot of text copied from other sources). I'd like to make it into a Good Article, at least, and maybe the first(?) Featured article on a Korean film. About the ratings, I don't think they should be based on what's popular here, or there, at this time. But on how significant the film is historically. As one example, according to my Korean friends & relatives, Im's Festival was not much of a success, but I think it's a film that will become more important as time goes on. But more than my own opinion, I've found some good articles that say this is an important film... It would be nice to have a separate project to discuss these things, but I don't see a lot of editors dedicated to Korean film in general. More, just random articles about whatever film is new or popular at the time. For example, I worked through the List of South Korean films, and you can see how heavily weighted it is towards recent films rather than important older films... It'll be something to work on though, as time permits. Dekkappai (talk) 23:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You're right. The quality scale depends on how significantly a movie has influenced on cultural, historical, social and artistic aspect of South Korea and outside world. I sometimes refer to other language films when I rate a Korean movie article, and I was surprised to see the grade of Battle Royale (film) and Yojimbo. The former didn't get any success in South Korea and is regarded as a bad movie, but the rating is "high". It might have deeply influenced upon Japanese society and some Japanophiles in Western world, but I was so disappointed that Takeshi Kitano even starred in such the movie. The latter is one of the masterpieces directed Kurosawa Akira, but the rating is just "mid". The rating tends to follow personal preferences of Wikipedians. I think if you make a Korean film project, people could emerge from underground. :)--Appletrees (talk) 15:32, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I do like Fukasaku, but, he's no Kurosawa, certainly... The comparison of those two films is surprising... Though it does point out my suspicion that the ratings/preferences and even article creation focuses more on the recent, and currently popular, rather than intrinsic, historical value. I've had my hands pretty full with the Japanese area, and am just trying to work out balancing that work with Korean cinema (which seems to need a lot of work), so I'm not sure if I'd be the one to start up a Korean film project... I'll certainly give it some thought though. Regards. Dekkappai (talk) 17:46, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Hobiyashi AfD
Hobiyashi is up for deletion, if you can add insight to the discussion please do so. Benjiboi 05:28, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Update; closed (and deleted) it as blatant nonsense. Benjiboi 06:13, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't understand why you brought the irrelevant subject to here. --Appletrees (talk) 22:54, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

South Korean presidential election, 2007
Since it doesn't seem to be getting much attention, I've updated the 2007 Presidential Election article a bit. I found a list of offical candidates as well as fixed some of the links. I'm going to remove the expansion tag as I think it's cleaned up enough to be removed from the list.

If someone has a chance, you might look at reevaluating it in terms of the quality since it is listed of high importance. Davidpdx (talk) 12:31, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

New WPKorea working groups: Arts, Architecture, and Film

 * WikiProject_Korea/Architect
 * WikiProject_Korea/Arts
 * WikiProject Korea/Film

I just made the two WP Korea working groups. I don't think it doesn't really change much because there are not many editors into Korean art. However, we need to distinguish articles from a lot of history working groups. And if you're interest in Korean film much, I suggest to make another project for Korean film articles. Thanks--Appletrees (talk) 15:42, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * OK-- I just started WikiProject Korea/Film. I've never tried anything like this before, so please take a look at it and correct any mistakes I may have made. Looking forward to improving the Korean film area! Regards. Dekkappai (talk) 19:16, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I also a newbie to make this thing in wikipeia. :) I'll join the project as well. But I think little advertising is necessary to people to have been engaging in the Korean film related articles. --Appletrees (talk) 20:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Silly edit war over at Galbijim Wiki
There's a silly edit war going on there between myself and another user about this edit. Getting dangerously close to violating the 3R rule, I'm going to leave the page alone for a while. Any thoughts? Mithridates (talk) 00:53, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Chung Dong-Young
From Lee Myung-bak: "He defeated his rivals Chung Dong-Young and Lee Hoi-chang ..." -- I assume that we would like to have at least a stub on Chung Dong-Young? (And see WP:Redlink) -- 201.37.229.117 (talk) 20:36, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. ;) Dekkappai (talk) 20:41, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Straw poll: should "Hangul" be changed to "Hangeul"?
See Talk:Hangul. Badagnani (talk) 03:35, 20 December 2007 (UTC)