Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea/Archive 5

Talk:Hirohito
An editor files a RFC regarding Hirohito's name: Talk:Hirohito. Hirohito is a notable Japanese figure around the world, so if anyone are interested in this matter, please visit the site. Thanks.-Appletrees (talk) 16:17, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

The disambigous page: SNU and East Sea
A Japanese user Yuan.C.Lee has insisted on applying his "OWN" rule to SNU. Even though he violated 3RR (WP:AN3, his disruptive edits are not ceased but expanded to East Sea disambigous page. Please give an advice if there is anyone. Thanks.-Appletrees (talk) 16:22, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * For the record, User:Yuan.C.Lee has been blocked for his sockpuppetry along with his loving sock, User:Boldlyman. -_-
 * You can see the result, Requests for checkuser/Case/Yuan.C.Lee

--Appletrees (talk) 16:37, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Category:Chinese chess players
This category name is highly confusing, since Chinese chess is the common English name for a different board game, and one would naturally expect it to be filled with players of Chinese chess. Any suggestions on renaming it? 70.51.9.174 (talk) 07:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Why not call it by the romanized version of the Korean name for the game, something like "Changkee"? --Dan (talk) 17:12, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Recognized content section?
It would be nice to have something like the "Recognized content" section similar to the one at the Japan project --WikiProject_Japan. Display our good articles, DYKs, etc., and encourage the creation of more. Any thoughts? Dekkappai (talk) 00:40, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * We had one before they did =). Ours is at Korea-related topics notice board. cab (talk) 01:01, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'm new here and had a DYK to add. Dekkappai (talk) 01:07, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion for merge of Names of Seoul and Gyeongseong
Chinese transcription for Seoul (for convenience) and one of the old names of Seoul, Gyeongseong are all about the name changes of Seoul inside and outside of Korea, so I don't think the separate articles are needed. And I think this article has to deal with other names for Seoul like Wirye-seong (위례성; 慰禮城, Baekje era), Namgyeong (남경; 南京, Goryeo era), Hanseong (한성; 漢城, Joseon era) or Hanyang (한양; 漢陽) as well.

Les talk about it at Talk:Names of Seoul --Appletrees (talk) 13:38, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Translation
Could someone who speaks Korean look at the reference in this diff and see which is the more appropriate translation?  MBisanz  talk 20:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * This might be a belated answer to you, but the tone of the two sources attached in the article are very different from one another. Sim rejected the president never said such word unlike the gossip. --Appletrees (talk) 16:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sea of Japan and WP:NC-KO
As some of editors have seen, the naming convention is not set in stone, but becomes a subject of tendentious edit warrings. The issue is questioned by one of the the other party, User:Endroit at ANI. Here is the naming convention with which many editors seem to not satisfied through many articles. I think it is the time to make a new poll to decide the naming convention. It is complicated and not handy and Japanese editors keep chasing and falsely accusing Korean editors of vandals. That is not a constructive way to get a consensus.

Sea of Japan (East Sea) from Naming conventions (Korean) Per the vote that took place from 18 July 2005 to 8 August 2005 here, this is the new naming convention for the body of water that separates Japan and Korea:


 * 1. For all international articles use: Sea of Japan
 * 2. For all Japan articles use: Sea of Japan
 * 3. For all Japan/Korea and South Korea articles use: Sea of Japan (East Sea)
 * 4. For all Japan/North Korea articles use: Sea of Japan (East Sea of Korea)
 * 5. For all Korea and South Korea articles use: Sea of Japan (East Sea)
 * 6. For all North Korea articles use: Sea of Japan (East Sea of Korea)

Per the conditions of the vote, use (East Sea) only once at the first mention.

so anyone who thinks the naming convention and disputing comes to your interest, please feel free to input there. Thanks. --Appletrees (talk) 23:21, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that the current system is confusing, complicated, and "not handy". But as I believe the most common term in English, by far, is Sea of Japan, I think that should be the end of it. Outside of texts directly relating to Korea, particularly those which are simply translations of Korean texts, is it really common at all in English to see the term "East Sea"? LordAmeth (talk) 13:49, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

uploaded a couple more images
User:Good friend100/Gallery

long overdue. Wikipedia has been the last thing on my mind since second semester started. Sorry about that. Please note that I have many more images, I'll have to upload them too. Good friend100 (talk) 01:50, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Wonderful images as always but you didn't upload them directly to Commons even though I asked you for it. -_-;; Please upload them with just "Korea" category!--Appletrees (talk) 01:59, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Education in South Korea needs cleanup.
Education in South Korea needs cleanup. -- 201.37.229.117 (talk) 14:13, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Transportation in South Korea
apparantly, i don't know how to post properly, but would it be possible to create transportation working group? There are lots of bus terminals, rolling stock, canals, and other projects and landmarks out there.DaronDierkes (talk) 03:24, 1 March 2008 (UTC)]]

Some problematic edits
Hi, these articles have seen some bad edits, from User:Lee King Daughter. Multiple policy/guideline violations, including WP:V, WP:POV, WP:NOR, WP:COI, WP:3RR and so on. Please keep these articles under your watchlist, and help out Lee King Daughter, if necessary. Thank you. --Kjoonlee 02:49, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Bangja, Crown Princess Euimin of Korea
 * Crown Prince Euimin


 * Hmmm.. I don't know much about the subject but the user seems very socky per the edit contributions and user page. --Appletrees (talk) 17:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

FAR for Korean name
Korean name has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --Kaypoh (talk) 02:25, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Youn Shim-Deok
I have written a little entry on Youn Shim-Deok but am still a bit new to wikipedia and not a Korean or Korean speaker and don't know how to add Korean language things and links. Any help would be welcome. Hope it is OK to post this here. Thanks (Msrasnw (talk) 20:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC))
 * Nice start on an interesting subject, Msrasnw. I've added the hangul and a section heading. Cheers! Dekkappai (talk) 20:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your little addition Dekkappai. I didn't know if I should try to make one or was supposed to have a little box Hangul and Revised Romanization and McCune-Reischauer things in? Anyway Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 17:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC))

Talk:Sea of Japan
Well, except me and other, Korean editors who always oppose to the naming convention haven't appeared to participate in discussion or to a vote at the talk page, I guess everyone just satisfy with the current situation. However, this process is really getting intriguing because several hilarious shows are presented such as sock puppetry and meat puppetry. If you have a little interest in what's going on, visit and take a look at Talk:Sea of Japan. --Appletrees (talk) 16:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Need a translator
Need some help with this if anyone's Korean and English are good enough Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents--Crossmr--Crossmr (talk) 16:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

pooling resources on articles

 * List of Baekje people
 * List of Goguryeo people

Any help on these articles would be appreciated. I need help with people who know famous people from either of these kingdoms other then rulers, Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Easternknight (talk • contribs) 22:49, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Korean Place Infobox References
Does anyone have any idea how references work in the Infobox Korean settlement template? I've tried sooooooo much to get them to work with the Suwon article, copying the stuff from the Seoul page, but nothing's working. It seems to be completely impossible to put a normal cite web reference into this infobox, and simple references see maddeningly torturous, too. Help, please! JPBarrass (talk) 15:51, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I got it to work, but still cite web doesn't seem to. JPBarrass (talk) 15:59, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's fine as long as you use the tags. PC78 (talk) 15:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

What are the names of the copilot and flight engineer of Korean Air Flight 801?
What are the names of the copilot and flight engineer of Korean Air Flight 801?

Some source suggested "Song-Kyo Ho" for the copilot but I am not sure if this is correct. I KNOW the pilot is Park Yong-chul from watching the Mayday episode about it. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That is correct info according to this blog

이 녹음테이프는 801편이 김포공항을 이륙한 지 3시간18분이 지난 8월6일 오전 1시11분51초(괌 현지시간)부터 추락 때까지 조종실 근무자인 기장 박용철(42), 부기장 송경호(41), 기관사 남석훈(58)씨의 목소리를 담고 있다.

I don't know whether you can read Korean, but the source says the names of three pilots. Park Yong-chul, Song Kyeong-ho, Nam Seok-hoon. However, this source is only for confirmation because blog sources are not acceptable here--Appletrees (talk) 17:44, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I figured out the names by seeing the characters after the ages in parenthenses. I do not know Korean but I use Wiktionary to confirm characters. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_February_23
Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_February_23

I don't know where to report it regarding Korean related CFD or AFD. The category is created by or his alternative sock (literally exclusive use for disposal of Chosenjin) and has been tagged to Korean related articles by him without any good source. The category has been abused by him, and no such category exists. If you have any interest, give your input. Thanks--Appletrees (talk) 21:43, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Korean names
Hi! I have a question to the style of the Korean names. Why are e.g. all boxers (Category:South Korean boxers), all table tennis players (Category:South Korean table tennis players), and nearly all footballers (Category:South Korean footballers) are written in the style "Xxx Yyy-Zzz"? But all badminton players (Category:South Korean badminton players) are written in the style "Xxx Yyy-zzz"? This is very confusing for me when I edit Olympic pages, because in different sports I had to use different styles for the Koreans... And on pages like South Korea at the 2004 Summer Olympics the different styles had to be used side by side... Isn't there a possibility to bring them in line?? Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 17:19, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Per WP:NC-KO, personal names should generally be written as "Xxx Yyy-yyy", unless that person has a known preference otherwise or there is some other established form of the name. Generally you should sick to the one style unless you have good reason not to. PC78 (talk) 19:01, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for your answer. Yes, I read this already. But is there a general "good reason" to write e.g. all badminton players and nearly all football players in the style which does not correspond with the convention? To me it looks like that many more people have "good reasons" not to follow the convention? So is the convention only for a minority? Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 23:12, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know enough about Korean badminton or football players to give you a real answer. Perhaps the names are often capitalized when written in the media? That might be enough to constitute an "established" form of the name. I suspect, though, that it's more a case of users not being aware of the guideline. PC78 (talk) 01:04, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks again. To me it looks like that in general the "established" form of Korean names is in the style "Xxx Yyy-Zzz". So I am wondering why the convention is saying that we had to prefer the style "Xxx Yyy-zzz". E.g. a google check for Park Sung-hwan shows that nearly all pages (except to wikipedia) write his name capitalized... It looks easier to me to change the convention... Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 09:17, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it depends what name you're searching for, and as I hinted at above, I suspect it depends to some extent on your field of interest. If you do a google search for Song Kang-ho, for example, you'll see that his name is far less often capitalized. PC78 (talk) 11:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok! Thanks to user PC78 for being so patient. Well so it looks like that everyone can choose how he wants to write the name. As for Park Sung-hwan, there is one external link given which shows his name capitalized nevertheless wiki writes his name in a different style... This looks to me that one user wanted to make the spelling of all badminton players equal regardless if there is an "established" form or not. Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 19:29, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

John Lee (placekicker)
Does anybody know the Korean name for this 1980s college football star?--Endroit (talk) 20:12, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Korean Fried Chicken
Is this a legitimate Korean dish? Badagnani (talk) 23:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The dish shown in the image is yangnyeom chicken (양념치킨), fried chicken with a spicy sauce which is AFAIK distinctively Korean. However, no real Korean chicken place would think of confusing this with actual "fried chicken" (후라이드 치킨), which is the same dry, bland, greasy stuff you can get anywhere in the world.  How yangnyeom chicken is marketed outside of Korea, though, I have no idea; it may well be packaged as "Korean fried chicken." -- Visviva (talk) 02:44, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I just added the photo. I don't know if the photo I added is of the right dish (that is, the dish intended by the page's creator). Could we find out which dish s/he meant? Badagnani (talk) 02:47, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Aha. Well, the original one-sentence version of the article contained this link:, and the chicken portrayed therein is not yangnyeom, just somewhat seasoned fried chicken; think it would be called "barbecue" (바베큐) in most places.  It wouldn't have occurred to me that there was anything culturally unique about Kyochon barbecue chicken, but apparently I've missed the boat.  In any case, it would probably be best in the long run if the article covered all forms of Korean fried chicken, of which there are a fair number. (especially depending on your definition -- is 닭쌈 fried chicken?) -- Visviva (talk) 03:00, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

That's a good idea. I hope someone will have the expertise to add all those, so we can celebrate the wide world of fried chicken in all its glorious richness. Badagnani (talk) 03:15, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Maps
The maps which locate cities in provinces are really inadequate. The provinces need to be shown in their place in Korea on the same page. I realize that for some other cities and countries this practice is also followed, but it should be changed. We can start with Kroea. Kdammers (talk) 07:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * What about using two maps? One for the city in the province and another for the province in the country.  Personally, I prefer the province level map, but concessions should be made to users like you as well.  I tried to edit the Bucheon page to show both maps as an example to show you, but i'm incompetent and can't work an infobox apparantly.DaronDierkes (talk) 08:43, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Jong (bell)
I prodded this article last night, but now I'm not too sure. Does anyone know what the article is actually about? Is jong just the Korean word for bell, or is a jong a specific kind of bell? Is the article just talking about the word in general? PC78 (talk) 16:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's just describing the Korean word for "bell", with a mention of the family name. I don't think it's about a particular bell, like the Emille Bell. Although it might be referring to-- or could be made to refer to-- Korean bells in general, their unique style, history, whatever. Maybe Appletrees can give us more input, but it looks prod-able to me. Dekkappai (talk) 16:50, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Unless it is expanded with much addition on history of Korean bell or several unique properties, it is likely deleted. In such case, I would prefer the article renamed as Korean bell. --Appletrees (talk) 13:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Korean bells (like the large temple bells that are struck on the side with a large wooden stick) aren't significantly different from Chinese or Japanese ones. They can be discussed in the Bell article. The pyeonjong and teukjong can have their own articles. Hence, this article seems unnecessary unless it talks about the surname more. Badagnani (talk) 18:28, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but they do have a separate history. I think the subject would be interesting and deserving of its own article. This particular article, as it stands, is not it though. It's not even the beginning of such an article. Dekkappai (talk) 18:40, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, although I don't agree with your opinion that Korean bells is not much different from the neighboring countries, article regarding bells in East Asia is worthy to be created. The pyeonjong is also part of jong.


 * The surname Jong is very rare in Korea according to several surveys. --Appletrees (talk) 19:53, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If describing the surname, it should be under Jong (surname). If describing Korean bells (which undoubtedly have a long history, if talking about the large temple bells rather than the several other kinds used in court and ritual music), then it should be under Korean bell. Pyeonjong (which is a bell chime rather than the large single temple bell) already has its own article, for example. Badagnani (talk) 18:45, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

(Unindent) Based on a quick search, I think Appletrees is correct. Korean bells seem to have been particularly praised and valued, according to some sources, apart from Japanese or Chinese bells. A couple of quick links: An article, Sounds of ancient Korean bells in The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America,, an article on a physicist who analyzed Korean bells, an assertion by a physics professor that "their characteristics are unique and quite different from those of the neighbored countries, China and Japan" (striking this out-- it referred to Korean celadon, not bells) "Korean bells... due to its uniqueness and its origination in Korea, have several peculiar characteristics.', etc... Anyway, it's definitely a subject worthy of an article (maybe one of us should start one up?), but, again, this particular article isn't that article. Dekkappai (talk) 20:10, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - Are these sources referring to the large cylindrical temple bells struck with the end of a large stick, or the pyeonjong or teukjong? It's an important distinction. Badagnani (talk) 07:46, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Rename proposal; input needed
Should Korean spicy cold noodle be redirected to bibim guksu? My opinion is "yes." Badagnani (talk) 07:46, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I moved it to bibim guksu because of WP:MOS-KO. --Appletrees (talk) 12:02, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Korean Nationalism
Wikipedia's page on Korean Nationalism needs a heavy NPOV facelift. if anyone is interested in the page I would very much like help repairing the overall negative tone and informational disarray. I made a few changes including a brief introduction and origins section, as well as a history section which will be filled in the upcoming days. Overall the entire article needs to be restructured, it reads like random bits of information(related to korean nationalism or not) thrown on the page. CatherineKim (talk) 05:06, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Need information
Do we have an article about the dancer Choi Sung-hee (최승희, 崔承喜, 1911-1969), a Korean modern dancer during Japanese occupation? Badagnani (talk) 21:09, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Found it at Sai Shoki. Is that the proper article title? Shouldn't it be under her Korean name? Badagnani (talk) 21:24, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I would think it should be Choi Seung-hee. There's an English-language documentary on her, I'll add that as a source. Dekkappai (talk) 21:34, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, good. You and Appletrees are quick. Badagnani (talk) 21:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Huh, what on earth are thinking! Apparently, Nanshu who associates with 2channel has vandalized Korean related articles for really long time. I wonder why the disruptive editor has still been here. He might have been living in the period during WW2. I should give him a proper warning.--Appletrees (talk) 21:40, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Need hangul
Need hangul and expansion at Independence Hall of Korea. Badagnani (talk) 21:09, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Sookmyung High School
Do we have/need an article on Sookmyung High School? Or is this the same as what is today Sookmyung University? Badagnani (talk) 23:14, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a famous and good school founded by a concubine of King Sunjong. It is not the same as Sookmyung University.--Appletrees (talk) 23:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

So perhaps we should add this to the list of wanted articles at WPKOREA. Badagnani (talk) 23:27, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Qiu Tian De Tong Hua
Is this real? I've googled it, but so far as I can tell "Qiu Tian De Tong Hua" is just another name (Chinese?) for the tv series Autumn in My Heart. PC78 (talk) 12:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

It is a WP:Hoax because there is no such custom. I tagged the article with delete tag and gave the creator, a warning. --Appletrees (talk) 13:12, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

e-Kyujanggak
I intend to upload old images of Uigue (의궤) from Kyujanggak (former royal library), but accessing the site appears to be very challenging. I downloaded some of images, but my computer doesn't show any file. Is the problem lied on my computer or the site? If anyone can enlighten me, I would appreciate that. --Appletrees (talk) 13:32, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what images you want to download. If you are having trouble downloading them properly, you can always try to capture the screen, using Print screen key. eDenE  19:16, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Hunmin Jeongeum Haerye
I've been waiting quietly for someone to take care of Talk:Hunmin Jeongeum Haerye, but it seems really a bit too quiet. Does anyone mind? I'm afraid it's not just a trivial matter... Mulukhiyya (talk) 08:30, 23 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm glad it's fixed. :) 수고하셨어요! Mulukhiyya (talk) 14:42, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Korea: Articles of unclear notability
Hello,

there are currently 10 articles in the scope of this project which are tagged with notability concerns. I have listed them here. (Note: this listing is based on a database snapshot of 2008-03-12 and may be slightly outdated.)

I would encourage members of this project to have a look at these articles, and see whether independent sources can be added, whether the articles can be merged into an article of larger scope, or possibly be deleted. Any help in cleaning up this backlog is appreciated. For further information, see WikiProject Notability.

If you have any questions, please leave a message on the Notability project page or on my personal talk page. (I'm not watching this page however.) Thanks! --B. Wolterding (talk) 16:46, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Korean Chinese dishes?
I do not believe the dishes on "to-do list" added are Koreanized Chinese foods, so spent some time searching relevant info. Indeed these are just Chinese dishes not to have become such dishes like jajangmyeon, jjamppong, or tangsuyuk. Therefore, I removed the dishes except ulmyeon, because I'm not sure whether the dish, a similar to da lu mian (打滷麵) in Chinese cuisine is Koreanized or not in Korea. The rest of dishes are transliterated in Korean. Badagnani, I think you should request your list to Chinese project. You can add Korean name for the dishes if articles regarding them are ever created. I put their original Chinese name and hanzi, so you can find needed info over the web.


 * wēnlŭmiàn (溫滷麵 / ulmyeon 울면 in Korean) noodles, seafood, and vegetables in a chowder-like soup. It is similar to da lu mian (打滷麵)
 * laziji (辣椒鷄 / rajogi, 라조기 in Korean) sliced chicken and vegetables with garlic and chili pepper
 * ganpengji (乾烹鷄 / kkanpunggi, 깐풍기 in Korean) chicken and vegetables sauteed with garlic-flavored sauce
 * babaocai (八寶菜 / palbochae, 팔보채 in Korean) mixed seafood with hot sauce
 * liang zhang pi (兩張皮 or 洋張皮 / yangjangpi, 양장피 in Korean) peeled lamb gut, seafood, and vegetables in mustard sauce)

--Appletrees (talk) 21:50, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Korean wine
Korean wine has been proposed to be renamed. 70.51.9.57 (talk) 04:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

North Korea cleanup
Hi! I proposed some changes to the North Korea article on its talk page to remove the pov-tag. Can you review and comment them? Thanks! Mthibault (talk) 05:17, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

CJKV taskforce
The CJKV taskforce has been created to assist in disambiguation of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese when using Kyūjitai, Hanja, Hán tự, Simplified Chinese, and Shinjitai (Kanji). If you wish to participate, please come and help out. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:57, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Project notice
Hi. Your WikiProject notice is a little on the large side. Is there any chance you could make it smaller, possibly by adding a collapsible element to it. -- GW_SimulationsUser Page 21:49, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The project banner? It is collapsible, and in its default state not that big. PC78 (talk) 06:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Pages needing attention/Korea
You might be interested in giving you opinion in this page's Mfd-- Lenticel ( talk ) 11:34, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Need to expand museum related articles.
When I made List of museums in Seoul, and List of museums in South Korea, I hope somebody interested in those articles would create articles of the listed museums one by one. Several days ago, User:Blofeld of SPECTRE was very WP:BOLD to create a bunch of articles concerning the matter, and I appreciate his contribution. However, the problem is that the articles have only one sentence without resources. I've tried to implement the articles as adding sources and infobox, but the articles are too many, so I bring this issues to here. Please help to expand the articles, thanks. --Appletrees (talk) 13:58, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Need Korean at Dried shrimp
Need Korean name in the infobox at Dried shrimp. Badagnani (talk) 07:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think dried shrimps are extensively used in Korean cuisine, although they are often consumed as snacks o banchan. There is no official word for them, but they are usually called 마른 새우, 말린 새우, or 건새우. 마른, 말린, 건(乾) means "dried," and 새우 means "shrimp." eDenE  17:19, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm.. no, dried shrimp is rather used for making a broth in Korean cuisine. --Appletrees (talk) 17:50, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Can you add the best term(s) to the infobox there? Badagnani (talk) 22:33, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

The article says:

Badagnani (talk) 22:33, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Can the best term(s) be added to the infobox? Badagnani (talk) 04:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

North Korea - Weblogs and external links
Hi, just thought I would draw your attention to the discussion on the North Korea talkpage about the external links section. The discussion originally started with a disagreement about the inclusion of weblogs in the EL, and has now widened to include the other external links too. I think some input from people familiar with Korean topics would be useful. Cheers, Eve Hall (talk) 14:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Links to the Galbijim Wiki
I just noticed that |an anonymous user has been removing links to the Galbijim Wiki, and some others such as this ip as well. As an admin on the Galbijim Wiki though it wouldn't feel right going around and reverting all the edits (I did revert the edits from the ip that did nothing but remove GJ wiki links but I don't think I'll be doing any more), so I'll just leave the subject here for others to discuss or take care of as they see fit. Trafficwise Wikipedia brings in almost nothing to the site so Galbijim doesn't suffer at all without links from Wikipedia, but I do like the idea of a Wookieepedia and Memory Alpha-type collaboration between the two, where one has general encyclopedic information and the other is suitable for as specific information as you like. Mithridates (talk) 15:04, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the site is a community site, so not quite providing reliable sources. --Appletrees (talk) 15:08, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You just also summed up another site that gets a lot of external links, Wikitravel, re: a wiki community site offering unreliable sources. Anyways, I'll defer to Galbijim's wikipedia page for a clearer understanding of what the site's role is and how content is governed. I should also draw attention that the wikipedia page had an RFD that was voted as a keep. IMO, I find it confusing as to why supplementary links to Galbijim content are deemed spam by some, yet the site and its content is deemed relevant enough to have a Wikipedia article about it. I sincerely hope that the anonymous user(s) who revert Galbijim Wiki links would first hold discussion on the talk pages of the specific articles in question or login and contest the links, if there is concern.--Gbozz (talk) 12:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Funny, Gbozz, your comment is exactly same as 데이빛 and insertion of the Galbijjim Wiki Besides, you edited on a same article around same period of the time with him. Your first edit is also interesting. .--Appletrees (talk) 12:17, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That guy is most definitely not me. I don't know a whit about prostitution in Korea (where the majority of the user's edits come from). Mithridates (talk) 03:41, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Appletrees, please note that Mithridates and I are 2 different people. You can see that we have 2 different profiles and photos of ourselves over on Galbijim.. I assure you that there is no grand conspiracy of any sort. I'm also a little curious as to why you chose to deviate from the central discussion over whether Galbijim references are worth keeping here and instead took the low road of ad hominem insinuations about Mithridates and I. You might be the wiser to avoid taking such angles, otherwise people might draw conclusions as to you possibly being the anon who reverts Galbijim external links. Let's please try to keep the discussion focused on the issue.--Gbozz (talk) 10:17, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Gbozz, I'm sorry that you feel unpleasant about my comment but how could people possibly figure out you're the user named "Galbijjim" in Galbijjim?(seems like an administrator there) I did not imply that you and the other are the same person, but may be deeply related to Galbijjimwiki. I felt a problem with your past edits, mostly from Prostitution in South Korea, one of articles that Japanese 2channel people contributed a lot. You used to edit the article dealing with the controversial subject without sourcing before I requested sourcing. It was also odd that you came here to defend Galbijjim wiki from your long break. If you imply that the anon is me, do compare the edit histories of the two editors. I said some people would remove external links if they thinks they're not reliable sources. That is not disruptive removals but conflict of interest and how interpret external links. So do a please take away the false accusation.--Appletrees (talk) 11:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I can sympathize with the confusion; for example, I've always assumed you and User:Appleby were the same. (For which I would certainly apologize if it's not true.) -- Visviva (talk) 02:05, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ????? I think it is the time for me to change my ID regardless of my initial intention of the naming. I do not need to hear your unnecessary apology, actually which even offends me more. I have not even met you before, and your saying even imply that I'm the same person of the banned user. Besides, what on earth you take the irrelevant issue here????? Your saying is just like hit and run somebody and saying, "sorry if you're hurt" as the driver driving away. Please don't make a sorry thing.--Appletrees (talk) 02:19, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ? Why the offense? A while back you thought I might have had a sock puppet, I told you I don't have one, and no harm done. Same situation here. No reason to get excited. Mithridates (talk) 17:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You must be joking. Harm has done to me a lot. Ever since I started to edit here, due to the similar name with some one, I have been monitored by now indefinitely banned Japanese sock/meat puppeters and 2channel people with not knowing that. What a spooky. Then, per your comment, I don't need to apologize to you. Besides, Visvisa is not YOU and his excuse or despair is really not my concern/no related to here. The request of your/another admin of Galbijjim is actually a matter of its notability issue. If it is notable, there should be at least one, but nothing I can find in Korean websites. So it is not appropriate that you and the other blame the anon's removal of the link here. --Appletrees (talk) 17:35, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, not joking, and the bit about notability, online forums and the rest of it is besides the point. I'm addressing WP:AGF, nothing more. Mithridates (talk) 18:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I know you were not joking but wrote it with a certain intention, so your above comment has really nothing to do with WP:AGF as you believe. --Appletrees (talk) 18:38, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The only intention is to avoid heated and off-topic discussions. On that note, I'll write no more on this tangent. Mithridates (talk) 18:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellent. If I were you, I would implement the article of Galbijim Wiki with reliable sources to secure the status and to prevent the unwanted removal by several people. --Appletrees (talk) 18:54, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I sometimes refer to Galbijjim wiki as editing Korean cuisine articles, but do not include it as a reference because they do not have any reliable sourcing. The anon might feel that the site is not valid site because of the fact. --Appletrees (talk) 12:29, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The anon (and must emphasize that there is no registered member making these edits or offering any explanation for the link removal. In fact, if you look at the history of this user, you'll see that he goes around making false or tiny edits on other articles around the same time of making the real edit to remove the Galbijim link. And there are a few other anon's doing the same with the exact same MO. It's definitely an issue of someone making malicious edits.--Gbozz (talk) 10:17, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If your mention of MO is modus operandi, I should thank to CSI: Crime Scene Investigation. I don't think the removal is wrong enough to be called 'malicious edits" by you. That would be more ad hominem attack for the anon. You could've left a note and started a discussion with the anon. Still, everyone may or may not agree with that Galbijjim is a useful website.--Appletrees (talk) 11:19, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I really don't know why you are taking the side of or play devils advocate of an anon going around making empty edits before and after performing a real edit plus not leaving any comments as to why the link was removed, nor why you don't find that the least bit 'odd', but me having the same username on the site that I am a member of, throws you into confusion. And Mithridates has previously left a note to one of the anons who removes links. Its not like we haven't tried resolving this on our own before coming to the point where we need to discuss things here. Anyways, this is not about what you or I find odd or not, nor giving each other slights. Your position of you not feeling that Galbijim links is relevant here, is duly noted. I just hope that we can put aside our differences and collectively agree that anons or users should not be given a free pass for their actions, after not making comments on these such edits or bringing them up here nor responding to us when we ask them about it. I also hope that your stance against having Galbijim links here does not encourage anon(s) to continue to remove links while not offering any comments or communication over their decision-making--Gbozz (talk) 16:26, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Lastly, to further debunk the 'non-reliable source' argument, to further illustrate the questionable edits being made by this anon(s) who removes only Galbijim links, I'd like to draw attention to the External Links on Daegu. Galbijim's external link always gets removed whenever we add it (I just added it back), yet the link to DaeguGuide (a site not only with unreliable sources, but its a site that its essentially a dead link, as the site owner has indicated on the mainpage that the site is not being maintained and will not fully active until later this year) remains untouched from the anon. The anon also never removes the link to Staypuff.net, which is a link to a personal blog of a foreigner living in Daegu. That, if anything, totally underscores why it looks to be malicious or grudge-motivated edits being made and I don't know how anyone can remotely justify keeping those two links, but removing Galbijims. Same goes for why wikitravel links (a non-reliable source) are kept, but I already made that point earlier.--Gbozz (talk) 17:08, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I found that site quite useful. Sites with other meaningful, relevant content could be linked in. --Cheol (talk) 11:19, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Other wikis may not be considered reliable sources, but they may be acceptable as external links. According to WP:ELNO, we should avoid "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors". I'm not familiar enough with Galbijim to know if it meets this criteria, but if it does then perhaps someone can add it to Interwiki map. Incidentally, we do have Galbijim which suggests a long standing acceptance of linking to Galbijim, even if the template is a little underused (assuming, of course, that there hasn't already been a widespread removal of these links). PC78 (talk) 14:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Visviva, who has been one of the largest contributors of Korea content on wikipedia over the past 4 years, created that template for use when linking to Galbijim. There were numerous articles that had external links using that template, however, almost all have since been removed by an anon editor(s).--Gbozz (talk) 10:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If you think the removal is totally wrong and administrative attention is needed, please visit Visviva's page (he is also an admin) or ANI.--Appletrees (talk) 11:22, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I'll leave a comment there then, though he doesn't seem to be very busy on Wikipedia as of late. Being an admin on the Galbijim Wiki I wouldn't feel comfortable just going around reverting edits from anonymous ips (nor could I even hope to find them all considering how many small towns there are) but I don't see any room for the argument that these removals are at all valid, as there has already been quite a bit of discussion on links to the Galbijim Wiki and the Galbijim Wiki page as well, both of which were deemed for the time being to be acceptable. It makes as little sense then that an anonymous ip should be given carte blanche here when a large number of them do nothing but remove links. And yes, I have left messages on their talk pages to no avail. Mithridates (talk) 17:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I'll leave a comment there then, though he doesn't seem to be very busy on Wikipedia as of late. Being an admin on the Galbijim Wiki I wouldn't feel comfortable just going around reverting edits from anonymous ips (nor could I even hope to find them all considering how many small towns there are) but I don't see any room for the argument that these removals are at all valid, as there has already been quite a bit of discussion on links to the Galbijim Wiki and the Galbijim Wiki page as well, both of which were deemed for the time being to be acceptable. It makes as little sense then that an anonymous ip should be given carte blanche here when a large number of them do nothing but remove links. And yes, I have left messages on their talk pages to no avail. Mithridates (talk) 17:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry I'm late. I agree that the Galbijim links are useful, and would argue in favor of retaining them if another discussion is held.  As things stand, the anon edits seem to be pretty clearly against consensus, and should probably be reverted (but that would need to be reviewed case by case). As noted I've been mostly inactive here for the past year, so my opinion should probably not be given undue weight.  On the other hand, I would give great weight to the opinion of User:Ryuch above. Cheers, -- Visviva (talk) 02:05, 21 May 2008 (UTC) (BTW, we need more Korean-knowledgeable contributors on Wiktionary!)

Deletion proposal
See Templates_for_deletion/Log/2008_April_27. Badagnani (talk) 14:28, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Korean name
I noticed that the template "was" changed, especially Revised Romanization is shown as RR and other Ramanization is MR. Others can be the font size and weird spacing, The change was not discussed, so I reverted to the original status before altered it. Although I've always thought that the template is hideous and the selection of color is not so satisfactory. If I were knowledgeable of templates, I already would've made a new template for the Korean project. How do you think of the change? I partially agree with RR and MR change. --Appletrees (talk) 21:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Using RR and RM is improper; it should be spelled out. Badagnani (talk) 21:48, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Why improper? Chinese and Japanese projects call Roman with their pronounciaton such as Romanji. The Revised Romanization is toooooooo long and wastes space in the infobox. I think  and  could be an alternative option.--Appletrees (talk) 21:52, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * You know what the abbreviations stand for but most of our users don't, so spelling it out is correct, as seen at Ggakdugi. The supposed "extremely large" amount of space the terms take up is an exaggeration. Badagnani (talk) 21:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Your mention of "improper" is I believe, an exaggeration of yours and a subjective comment. You're not a representative for most of "our" users (what a repetitive cliche) Can people who do not know anything about Korea recognize "McCune-Reischauer" in the box at first glance? Spelling them as Romaja (로마자) could be a good option which I already provided above.--Appletrees (talk) 22:15, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * MR and RR are improper. Similarly, we don't put "PY" for pinyin. Badagnani (talk) 22:16, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You're not "WE". --Appletrees (talk)
 * Here is your double standard coming up again. Not only pinyin is not an English term but also short for Hànyǔ pīnyīn. If you're consistent, you have to claim that it should've been addressed as Standard Mandarin Romanization or Chinese Romanizaton.--Appletrees (talk) 13:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * With knowledge of Korean romanization, he/she knows what RR means. Without knowledge, it's just confusing all "Revised Romanization", "McCune-R", RR, MR, &c. Revised Romanization doesn't carry good information for common readers, nor McCune-Reischauer, Pinyin, Romaji... (Actually "Hanja" should be replaced by Chinese, but it needs another discussion.) "Roman" and "MR" is best, I think, but the problem is that MR is preferred when context=northkorea. Reduce, if not remove, texts and make the link work. Jisok (talk) 03:17, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * At first blush, it seems to me that Appletrees is right. while spelling out the abbreviations "might" be confusing to novices, leaving them as such seem to be unopenable mysteries.  There are many Wik discussions that I simply give up on because of virtually impenetrable abbreviationitis; we shouldn't be culprits. Kdammers (talk) 05:00, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

"Romaja" is not an English word; in English we use the word "romanization." Badagnani (talk) 22:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * "Romaji" is not an English word but is used for the project. --Appletrees (talk) 22:23, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I haven't seen the word "Romanji" used anywhere except as a redirect from an improper spelling. Badagnani (talk) 22:27, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You haven't, but I have. --Appletrees (talk) 23:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you think this countless articles linked to romaji mean to you? Even, official articles of Japanese language use romaji for the Romanization spelling.(eg. Chi (kana), Te (kana). Your rationales are just contradictory. --Appletrees (talk) 14:13, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - You consistently used the term Romanji, not "romaji," then apparently changed the spelling of my own comment. Do not change my comments again. Badagnani (talk) 00:55, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What a threat, Badagnani. I only wrote romaji as romanji a couple of times but realized it was misspelled, so I changed it. If my fixing the spelling with yours in one occasion made you felt so urged to preach it, well, what can I say? I learned a good lesson from you again. --Appletrees (talk) 01:14, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Romaji is an English word (on OALD and Merriam-Webster). The term refers to a system to write Japanese using the Latin alphabets, i.e. romanization. Using it to mean "romanized Japanese" is appropriate. On the other hand, romaja is not an English word and refers to the Latin alphabet, not romanization. Romaja state that it should not be confused with "romanization" and ko:로마자 links to Latin alphabet. Revised nor RR Roman alphabet does not make sense. --Kusunose 00:39, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Your saying is nonsense and is inconsistent. Of course, I know romaji refers to "Romanization of Japanese" not the Roman alphabet itself (who would'nt know the fact?) You seem to ignore the example of Chinese Romanization and romaja lies in the same context of romaji. Badagnani who're very akin to Japanese culture does object to romaji never to been heard of, I doubt it is a common English term. Google result also shows that the term is mainly from Japanese site or learning site. One thing more, I wish you stop chasing me any more.(ex. hanja of Seongdong-gu)--Appletrees (talk) 01:00, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Besides, romaji also literally means "Latin alphabet", just the same as romaja ("로마자"). However, it abbreviates the official meaning of "Romanization of Japanese". Revised romaja (revised Romanization of Korean) perfectly makes sense.--Appletrees (talk) 01:07, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - Please don't misrepresent the facts. I am equally "akin" to Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese subjects and edit Japanese-related articles least of the four. Further, your lack of knowledge about Romaji led you to spell it consistently as Romanji, confusing everyone, then altering your spelling (as well as mine, without my permission, in my own postings). Don't do that again. Badagnani (talk) 01:08, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - Please don't resort to retaliation and make false accusation. I have enough with your POV pushing and original researches. Badagnani, although I'm not a good at Japanese language, at least can read it unlike you. You're the one who mislead me about "piyin" (I checked that out on it falsely introduced by you). The misspell is not a clear evidence of my lack of knowledge. That is "misspell" as that menas. You always pick up my statement and moved them directly to articles without confirmation by yourself. So, you're the one who should take a responsibility of your learning process. Not me. --Appletrees (talk) 01:34, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - This is a page dedicated to improving Korea-related articles. Personal attacks have no place here, so please do not waste WP's bandwidth with them. Badagnani (talk) 01:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - This is a page to develop Korean related articles by people capable of providing "verifiable sources" and having open mind. Your false accusation, bad faith on my misspelling and the preach are nothing but horrendous personal attacks. However you do not admit your own fault and incivility. That is very unfortunate for the Wiki communities.-Appletrees (talk) 02:10, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I find myself in agreement with Badagnani on this point. While I think that using RR and MR as abbreviations would be acceptable under some circumstances (as a space saver in the inline ko-hhrm template, for example), but in a linguistic infobox it is something that should be spelt out properly. PC78 (talk) 06:57, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Disagreed. I think these cryptic words("Revised romanization", "RR", "McCune-Reischauer", "MR", or pinyin, romaji, &c) hurt, not help, common reader's reading. Links - with minimal texts - will suffice. Jisok (talk) 08:44, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * If anything, using RR and MR is likely to cause more confusion, not less. The abbreviations are simply inappropriate here. PC78 (talk) 17:03, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Points
I thought it's enough not to make prior discussions. Sorry. Korean infoboxes are very different from general infoboxes, and making it more general-looking is desirable, well, at least to me. Compare Busan with Boston. (Also note qi.) Four points: Jisok (talk) 03:17, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * RR, MR: See above.
 * Big fonts: Font is much bigger than other infos. Korean romanization is so important?
 * Right alignment of "Hangul", "Hanja", &c
 * Borders: Bordering every cells; it's Korean style.


 * First I would like to thank you for your contributions, because your intentions were obviously good. But like the others I wasn't entirely happy with the change. What exactly did you mean by making the template "more wikipedian style"? There are many different infoboxes on Wikipedia, and they do not all share the same style. Font size, for example, tends to vary considerably. I also don't understand your comment above about the borders. To me, this was one of the least desirable of the changes. Like Badagnani I think the infobox is fine as it is, and don't see any real need to make such big changes. PC78 (talk) 07:19, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Proposals
It's a little better looking, isn't it? Jisok (talk) 08:44, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I moved your templates to your user page because they made the talk page very untidy. --Appletrees (talk) 12:37, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I also object to the inclusion of "square feet". That is only used in the US, not internationally used. I think a small icon or sign of question mark placed right next to km2 that can convert meter measure to sq would be enough.--Appletrees (talk) 14:40, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Poll

 * Keep box as is. There are no problems with it. Badagnani (talk) 07:05, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Right. It's not "who's right/wrong", but just about style. My proposal is shown here how the looks change. Example from Busan. Take a look, plz. (Excuse me for the blank it occupies.)


 * Comment - No, it's not better. Badagnani (talk) 08:57, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Support with some conditions. Can you make the gap between lines less (줄간격 사이를 좀 줄일 수 없을까요? If you're Korean) because I like the changed box setting except the RR/MR matter and it could save the space. --Appletrees (talk) 12:10, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Reflected. You can do it by . Jisok (talk) 15:00, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Retain current style - I like it better. -- ざくら 木 14:30, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Of your proposals, I like the look of E and A the most, though I'll reiterate what I've said above - RR and MR need to be spelt out fully and properly. I'd like to see more, but at this point I still support keeping the original. PC78 (talk) 17:09, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * D is my personal favourite, although it might be nice to reduce the font size as Jisok suggested. eDenE  17:28, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Logo position and other problems
What I don't like the most in the template is the logo position. I'm sorry if I may hurt someone's feeling who may make the template with his effort, but honestly, our template is the ugliest template I've seen in the Wikipedia. The weird position of the image makes logo very cheap and unbalanced, unharmonized with other information in the infobox.


 * If we use both logo/emblem and flag, Template:French_commune could be a very good selection and the color and composition is similar to ours.
 * If we just use either either of logo/emblem or flag, I think Template:Infobox Prefecture Japan could be a good model.
 * Or cut out unnecessary parameters and use only needed ones from Template:Infobox Settlement, (ex. Shanghai, New York City)


 * Our current infobox Korean settlement has so many missing parameters. Such as why does it not include "administrative dong (행정동)" and "legal dong (법정동)"? It is also missing subdivision or upper division section.
 * Website information is also missing. --Appletrees (talk) 20:34, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Again, I don't really see a problem here. Personally I like the placement of the logo image. If you think that the settlement infobox needs additional parameters, then by all means add them (or suggest that they be added). But if you are proposing big changes to this infobox, then my suggestion would be to abandon it altogether and use the standard Infobox Settlement, which is widely used elsewhere on Wikipedia. PC78 (talk) 21:11, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have a big problem with the template. You don't edit geographical information of Korea as much as I or others do. Whenever I edit or create those article, I feel very depressing. Maps are also terrible. If there are someone willing to edit geographic infos, I can make maps, but that jobs requires many times. Please see this User:Appletrees/Sandbox6. I don't know how to make templates, so the placement of the Korean names is not pretty much desirable (it should be placed over the logo/maps), but that is my best.--Appletrees (talk) 21:25, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with using Infobox Settlement if you feel it does the job better than our own template. PC78 (talk) 21:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It should be adapted for our project if we use the template. At first Korean name section should be going up, but I don't know how.....--Appletrees (talk) 21:48, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Infobox Settlement can already do this; see Lhasa for an example of how it works. PC78 (talk) 21:52, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but that does not look good......The name section are excessively crowded at the top. I think the below order would be good.


 * Seoul
 * Seoul photo
 * Korean name section
 * Short name section
 * Logo/ Flag
 * Government info
 * Area/Population --Appletrees (talk) 21:57, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Other information.......


 * Well, that's just your opinion. :) I assume that others who use this template think it looks ok. My point is this: if there is a widely used template which can do the job (and this one can), then we certainly shouldn't be creating new ones because one user thinks that it "looks better". Of course, you can always suggest that changes be made to Infobox Settlement.PC78 (talk) 22:02, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that is my opinion but this discussion already proves that Infobox Korean settlement is not saving space much and brings objection and I'm not the only one being dissatisfied with it. Besides, English people do not use hangul, hanja and have no need for using two different system of spelling Roman alphabet like us. Besides, why did editors who work for French and Japanese related articles creat their own templates? That is why the Infobox Settlement is not perfect and not fit well.--Appletrees (talk) 22:18, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, so far you seem to be the only one here who is dissatisfied with our settlement template. ;) Yes, there are sepearte templates for French and Japanese settlements, but many (most) others have already been deleted at WP:TfD and replaced with Infobox Settlement. I know you don't like the look of the template, but in what other ways do you think it "is not perfect and not fit well"? PC78 (talk) 22:36, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, you forgot to count . I think I'd better raise this issue at the take page of SKG working group who're mostly dealing withe our template among participants for Korean project. The language difference makes Infobox Settlement not fit with hangul/hanja/rr/mr. Also don't forget that Korean film project created adapted template.--Appletrees (talk) 22:39, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I think Jisok mostly wants to change the look of the Korean name infobox, but you appear to want bigger changes to the settlement infobox (and apologies if I'm misunderstanding you). I hope you don't mind, but I edited your sandbox page to show how Infobox Settlement would look for Seoul. Yes, we do have several Korean infoboxes (like the film one), but we shouldn't really have our own template unless they need to be different. PC78 (talk) 23:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't understand that why the current template only introduce "one" emblem of cities or districts because mostly they have a couple of flags or other logos or slogan signs to promote their administrative place. See this User:Appletrees/Sandbox5. It is not that changed compared with the current template. The two logos are dummy, so one has to be replaced with proper one. --Appletrees (talk) 00:05, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - I believe the template as it stands is one of the best templates at Wikipedia, and the position of the logo is very good. Badagnani (talk) 23:05, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course, you have been always a "keepiest" and don't want any change. --Appletrees (talk) 23:09, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll concede a few of those, but as I've indicated above, the template is fully capable of handling Korean names, there are various parameters for subdivisions (i.e. administrative divisions), and a number of blank paramaters than could handle additional stuff such as dialect. PC78 (talk) 13:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - This discussion is about the look of Korean infoboxes, not just Infobox Korean settlement. Thus, the discussion should be kept here. Anyways, we might just simply want to adapt the look of Infobox settlement but customize it to fit our needs. I don't think Infobox settlement can handle what we want... Then, we should change other infoboxes accordingly. eDenE  03:40, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In what way can't it do what we want? It can do everything our current template can do, and more. But I agree that we should focus on the main issue, which is the look of Infobox Korean name, and worry about other things later. PC78 (talk) 03:49, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What Infobox settlement lacks:
 * field for Hanja (i.e. second native name field)
 * fields for short name
 * field for Administrative divisions (gu, dong, etc)
 * field for Dialect
 * customized link for headings
 * and possibly more... eDenE  04:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Please note that transliteration fields shouldn't be used for Hangul and Hanja. In case of Lhasa, those fields are used improperly. I'll admit that subdivision fields can probably be used for administrative divisions, although the original usage is different. And I don't think using blank parameters are good, because those information will always be placed at the bottom, which is probably not desirable. eDenE  17:29, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, perhaps then. But I do think that we're getting sidetracked with this discussion. I would rather resolve the main issue with the general style of the infoboxes before we get too caught up in the finer details of the settlement template. PC78 (talk) 18:18, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Quicky template
Here is a template that Visviva made some time ago. I find it handy for short articles that either don't have complications or that I am not up to the nuances of:

Template:Korean article

Kdammers (talk) 05:06, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Isn't there a cyrillicization scheme from North Korea that should be included in the template? IIRC there was an identical template that was deleted four years ago from non-use. (It looked like the original Template:Chinese) 70.51.9.170 (talk) 06:39, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Use the context parameter in Infobox Korean name. PC78 (talk) 13:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a different template. 70.51.9.170 (talk) 04:26, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's used in Korean article. PC78 (talk) 15:03, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

wikiproject categories
There's no template category for this wikiproject, all templates are in the NA-class... shouldn't there be a template category? 70.51.9.170 (talk) 06:40, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Templates and such don't require quality or importance assessments, because they are not articles. Some projects use Template-Class (and others), but these grades are not part of WP:ASSESS, and in my mind, this over-asessment and over-categorization would be of no benefit to the project. NA-Class for anything that isn't an article should be sufficient. PC78 (talk) 13:36, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Korean ingredients
Hi, when adding information about Korean food, exotic ingredients might need to be added. Please take care to link to correct articles. I'll list some examples.


 * 칡 : Some dictionaries might show "arrowroot." However, 칡 is actually kudzu.
 * 도라지 : Dictionaries might show "bellflower" or "Korean bellflower." However, 도라지 is actually Chinese bellflower.

In my experience, the safest way is to search for "칡 학명" or "도라지 학명" and double-check. I hope this information is helpful. --Kjoonlee 18:42, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you could make redirects from these hangul spellings. Which articles are you referring to, in which there were problems? Badagnani (talk) 18:49, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm, I'd rather not... I don't like Hangul redirects. However, the articles were probably naengmyeon and banchan. --Kjoonlee 20:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Any idea about famous festivals in South Korea?
I have not traveled much within Korea, so I don't know anything about festivals held there except Hi! Seoul Festival. I intend to create Festivals in South Korea but according to Doosan Encyclopedia, South Korea has about 300 festivals, much of which I've never heard of. (I'm kind of "a cat hibernating in a house". Don't think of something hideous in a well). Gangneung Dano Festival and Yeongdeungje are very notable for their designation as Important Intangible Cultural Properties, but how about Gapyeong Grape Festival(가평포도축제 加平葡萄祝祭)? So what do you guys think what should be included or not included in the list? Any input is appreciated. --Appletrees (talk) 13:54, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not many festivals would be notable IMHO. WP:NN --Kjoonlee 18:25, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your input but that doesn't really be a helpful answer. I want which is notable or which is not. I've never heard of even Yeongdeungjae before until editing Wikipedia but in fact, which is very notable in Korea. Have you lived in South Korea? You seem to be a Korean American.--Appletrees (talk) 19:12, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm no American; I'm British to the backbone! No, I'm just kidding. I learnt my English in Greater London and I currently live in South Korea. If you haven't heard of Yeongdeungjae, I guess it can't be that notable. There are so many festivals, there aren't many that are notable. --Kjoonlee 02:42, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm? Your user page says you're a native speaker of English and Korean and in England, there are very few people of Korean origine living. Anyway, I can't be the standard to judge which festival is notable or not because I had been very indifferent in any Asian culture including even my own country's. Well, then, I will start festivals with the intangible cultural asset title--Appletrees (talk) 03:36, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeongdeungje and Gapyeong Grapes are new to me; Gangneung Dano, I (once) heard of. Maybe big and crowded ones are first choices, eg PIFF or Jinhae Gunhangje. Others notable are: Jeonju Daesaseup, Gwangju Biennale, Cheongdo Sossaum bullfight, Geumsan ginseng fest, including others. Busan Sajik ballpark could be included, too. Jisok (talk) 03:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, I mixed the Yeongdeungje (연등제, lantern festival) with Yeongsanje (영산제, Buddhist ritual ceremony).. Gapyeong Grape Festival is an example of non-notable festivals. Thank you for letting me know of 전주대사습, 광주비안날레, 천도소싸움, 금산인삼축제, 부산사직구장, yeah. they6 seems very notable (although I've heard only half of them), and they can be a good start.--Appletrees (talk) 10:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Nonsan Strawberry Festival, Buyeo's Paekche festival (I don't recall the exact name), Busan Film Festival, Anyang Dance Festival, the Taecheon (spelling?) Mud Festival (Certainly the last three must be included, considering their international draws.)

Korean surnames
I've always been bothered to see some of Korean surnames near stictly following revised Romanization which could be interpreted or pronounced in wrong ways such as 신, 강, 안, 임, etc. They are common surnames for Koreans, but I never seen people with those name spell theirs as "Sin" (crime), Gang (mob), An (an article), Im (I am) but Shin, Kang, Ahn, and Lim or Yim. I think the names should follow to what people call themselves like we do not spell people with 김 as Gim. --Appletrees (talk) 14:46, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * In which article? Of course, in the Korean surnames article we should give all the romanizations that are used, including Revised. But in articles about people, we should title the article the way they themselves prefer to romanize their names, giving the Revised and McCune-Reischauer romanizations in the box. I don't think there's any problem. Badagnani (talk) 15:50, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Too many cases... Another problem is I think, our naming convention. Usually people don't like to put hyphen to their name if it is really necessary for others to pronounce their name correctly, but the naming convention has "-" in Korean names.


 * Shin Sang-ok --> Shin Sangok
 * Kim Ok-bin --> I can't imagine the Korean actress feels "OKay" with the spelling.

--Appletrees (talk) 19:18, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Possible New Article: MKMF
I ran across mention of the MKMF, an awards show in Korea, in the Article W-inds. (WPBiography, WPJapan). I do not know of what name MKMF is an acronym at present; if it does prove an acronym, a Redirect to the full-titled Article to be considered would be in order, provided that sufficient information about this MKMF is available to satisfy notability requirements for a full Article. Could you please investigate available information on this MKMF? B. C. Schmerker (talk) 05:20, 11 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Mnet KM Music Festival has its ko and ja pages. It looks notable. —jisok 05:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Roger the findings. Work could begin on an Article on the Mnet KM Music Festival and Auction, with MKMF redirecting thereto.  If an Article exists on this Mnet KM Music Festival and Auction at ko.Wikipedia.org, a Translation Request could be filed to expedite this article proposal.  B. C. Schmerker (talk) 04:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Update: ko:Mnet KM Music Festival is confirmed, and a Japanese-language port ja:MKMF also exists.  Recommend a Translation from the Korean, as the information is more extensive.  B. C. Schmerker (talk) 04:55, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

China and PRC articles request to be renamed
User:SchmuckyTheCat is requesting that China be renamed, and replaced by the People's Republic of China article at "China". This will greatly affect articles that use the link to China to refer to Imperial China, as they will need to be fixed. 70.55.88.176 (talk) 08:04, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not necessary, as I understand things--the Article People's Republic of China has all necessary explanatory Wikilinks under current guidelines. The Article China covers the civilization from Sun Empire prehistory through the Qiang Administration (see also Republic of China) to the present People's Party regime (Main Article:  People's Republic of China); it too has all necessary explanatory Wikilinks.  What justification, if any, exists for such a huge undertaking as proposed by User:SmuckyTheCat? B. C. Schmerker (talk) 04:51, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * At Talk:China, where the RfC/RM discussion is occuring, it is mentioned in discussions before the proposal that there would be a need to change internal linkages should the move occur. The myriad justifications, points and counterpoints take up most of the talk page at China. 74.15.105.204 (talk) 05:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Is the RM discussion directly related to WikiProject Korea? If not (I believe so), keeping the discussion at the relevant page is more suitable.--Appletrees (talk) 05:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Since the discussion for the proposal is at Talk:China/DiscussRM, any comments made here will not be considered, since they have not occurred as part of the discussion of the proposal. However, should the renames occur, it would be pertinent to WPKOREA, because of the change in the meaning of the link to China. So the effect of the proposal is relevant, but the proposal itself should be discussed at Talk:China. 74.15.105.205 (talk) 05:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the effect of the proposal would be just as much as the other RMs, nothing significantly pertinent to WikiProject Korea or Korean related articles. Historical Chinese dynasties are styled as Qing/ Ming/ Yuan dynasty of China, so discussing the matter here other than the initial notification is meaningless. Here is primarily the place to discuss "KOREAN related matter" not China.--Appletrees (talk) 05:43, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Isn't that what I said? Except using a few more words. It concerns WPKOREA in as much as Korean articles reference China in various aspects, through links to China. And also pointing out to B.C.Schmerker that all information and discussion was not occuring here. 70.55.86.34 (talk) 04:59, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, what I'm saying is that your "concern" and "agenda" do not really matter to Korean project and you should stick to discuss it at the very relevant page, not here. If PRC and China are merged, that would not affect their references on Korean related articles much, because China in history is styled as "dynasty" or "imperial", so I don't understand why you're seeking your side here.--Appletrees (talk) 10:30, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not a merge, it's an article RENAME EXCHANGE (China -> Chinese Civilization, PRC -> China), which is why links may need to be changed. If links need to be changed, then Korea, with alot of historical articles linking to China should have its associated WikiProject informed. I did that; that links may need to be changed came up as part of the discussion on naming of the article. BC Schmerker made a comment, I responded that the information and dicussion was occuring somewhere else. 70.55.84.39 (talk) 06:33, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No,it is NOT just rename exchange. If the PRC article is moved to the title of China, quite amount of contents regarding history before the civilization should be added. That is why I said "MERGE". Adding history section would've largely done in Chinese related articles not Korea/Japan/Vietnam articles. However, historical articles on China and Korea relation-articles are not over that just other RM. Korea is Korea from its foundation so is China. During the long history of China, "STYLE" IS DIFFERENT from dynasties. If the matter is so significant to the Korean project, I would not be "THE ONLY" Korean editor" who made my opinion there. Well, your persistent commenting here made me just curious to go over there, nothing else. --Appletrees (talk) 10:18, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I have an update concerning the RM: As of 01:30, 18 May 2008 (UTC), discussion was ended by User:Húsönd, with no consensus; i.e. China stays where it is. B. C. Schmerker (talk) 07:32, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Korean immigration to Hawaii‎
New article needs collaboration, expansion, and suggestions for improvement. Viriditas (talk) 12:31, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

To do
I see that on WPKOREA there are three separate links for articles to be created. I recommend having just one.


 * 1) Korea-related topics notice board
 * 2) WikiProject Korea/To do
 * 3) WikiProject Korea/Redlist

Badagnani (talk) 23:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Well obviously the notice board isn't one, it just transcludes the to-do list. I agree that the to-do list and the red link list should be better organized, but they are fundamentally different in their purpose. The red link list is for requested articles only, while the to-do list is for general tasks. PC78 (talk) 23:21, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

IRC
I suggest that WikiProject Korea's IRC main channel.

irc.freenode.net, #wikipedia-ko and #wikipedia

I am connecting here, now. :) -- WonRyong (talk) 01:38, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * my MSN: iamjimy@hotmail.com

I want to work together by a chat. :) -- WonRyong (talk) 01:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Draft Guidelines for Lists of companies by country - Feedback Requested
Within WikiProject Companies I am trying to establish guidelines for all Lists of companies by country, the implementation of which would hopefully ensure a minimum quality standard and level of consistency across all of these related but currently disparate articles. The ultimate goal is the improvement of these articles to Featured List status. As a WikiProject that currently has one of these lists within your scope, I would really appreciate your feedback! You can find the draft guidelines here. Thanks for your help as we look to build consensus and improve Wikipedia! - Richc80 (talk) 22:00, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Open tasks
Jochiwon and other not-so-small communities. There could be a list of cities and towns that lack articles.

US beef imports in South Korea
The US beef import is the most heated and ongoing controversial issues in South Korea, so I think the article needs more attention and expansion. Thanks--Appletrees (talk) 02:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Korean music industry
I've been unable to find information pertaining to the Korean music industry, so I was hoping someone here could help me. Is there a Korean (North or South) equivalent to the Recording Industry Association of America or British Phonographic Industry? I ask because I'm working on a global music-market type article (List of music recording sales certifications) and I've been unable to find much info pertaining to the Korean music industry. Any help anyone could give would very much appreciated. Drewcifer (talk) 02:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's the Recording Industry Association of (South) Korea. Off the top of my head I've never heard a recent Korean album referred to with a certification level...record sales have plummeted in the last few years.  Good luck with your project! :) -- hamu♥hamu  ( talk ) 10:18, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Removal of info related to Korean manwha at Talk:Blade_of_the_Phantom_Master
I filed a WP:RFC several time, but for some unknown reason, it is not working well, so I need people's opinion on a tendentious dispute at Talk:Blade_of_the_Phantom_Master. The work is created by a famous manhwa artist and writer in South Korea and formated in manhwa style (paper oder is opposite to manga and others). In an interview with them, they said the draft was written in Korean and then translated into Japanese and first published in Japanese. Later, it was published in Korean language in South Korea. I think the work is manhwa as well, but the OCN ISP user and suddenly appeared user User:Jazz81089 after his 8-months-break did the same thing with the anon to the article: removing completely Korean mention and manhwa. The anon first removed Korean mention since last June, and I think it is absurd, because the work is created by Korean artists but he insists on removing the info completely. Manhwa/Manga are originally translated and introduced to the English speaking world as "Korean cartoon/animation, Japanese cartoon, animation", so my edit as "the work is a cartoon and an animation series created by Korean manhwa artists in specializing as Japanese manga published in Japan" is WP:NPOV. However, the duo or the one person-like anon/User:Jazz81089 denies it. I've talked to them (him or her) many times, and all are no use. Therefore, I'm writing this. Any input at the talk page would be appreciated much. Thanks. --Appletrees (talk) 14:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I can see this issue has been going on for awhile and is of deep concern to you. Because it seems like someone is intentionally downplaying the Korean contribution to a work you obviously value, it feels like more than just someone rewording an article about a comic, am I right?  There's no reason all the somewhat-atypical facts about this work can't be accommodated into its article, but I urge you not to get too worked up.  You've made some pretty strongly-worded accusations in recent months; they may all be perfectly justified but it's obviously really stressing you out.  This user may, in fact, genuinely be making these edits in good faith, just as you are.  Despite the frustration and what may seem like evidence to the contrary, it doesn't actually benefit you or anyone to assume otherwise.  In the end, the goal is to write a great article, and anything can be fixed.  So just keep it in perspective. :) -- hamu♥hamu  ( talk ) 15:33, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Manhwa
Does anyone have any objection to me proposing addition of manhwa to the scope of WikiProject Comics' world comics work group? This project's popular culture working group has it's hands pretty full with music, and I can't find any cohesive group working on manhwa. I had a terrible time just finding a manhwa infobox template. :) I figured the comics project's brand-new world comics group would be a good place to serve as a manhwa hub.  What do you guys think?  Thanks for your feedback! -- hamu♥hamu  ( talk ) 02:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

sorry for responding late, I think this is a great idea and I would be glad to help you. Jegal (talk) 03:13, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Awesome! It's never too late. :)  Please visit Wikiproject Comics World Comics work group.  There's a brief to-do list, a very long articles-to-create list, and most importantly - the talk page.  Things are still largely in the planning and organization state, and opinions are very welcome, so please stop by b/c I can only make so many decisions by myself, LOL!-- hamu♥hamu  ( TALK ) 03:17, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Article renaming just for romanization?
Hello. I'm wondering how project members feel with regard to renaming articles about people for the primary purpose of fixing issues of romanization or name order, to bring them in line with WP:NC-KO (and then leaving alternate romanizations as redirects). Is this overly nitpicky? I'm speaking specifically with respect to people like manhwa artists and such, i.e. people who aren't really going to have a "preferred" or established romanization amongst English-speakers. The current hoard of "non-compliant" romanizations I'm running into in the Category:Manhwa makes wikilinking a real challenge. Thanks so much for guidance and opinions. -- hamu♥hamu ( talk ) 05:17, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup
Currently, 1523 articles assigned to this project, or 24.2%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 2008-06-18.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 12:19, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Anti-American sentiment in Korea
Well, I was asked to implement the relatively recently created article of Anti-American sentiment in Korea created by User:Heroeswithmetaphors. However, I'm not knowledgeable of the subject much, so just put some notorious cases such as No Gun Ri massacre (노근리학살사건) and Yun Geum-i Murder Incident (윤금이 살인사건), and Two girls murder incidents (A.K.A 미순, 효순 사건), all of which are associated with the US Army residing in South Korea. I just added one or two sentences with tag. Honestly, I'm not interested in the subject. So if anyone who knows the incidents more than me or takes an interest in them, please implement the article. Thanks. --Caspian blue (talk) 17:12, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Need help from TKD article
TKD JJL is Very heavy JPOV Pusher. He try to rv. by JPOV extrem fringe theory. I need help from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Taekwondo He started a section at Reliable_sources/Noticeboard, too. This TKD page moderated by various other editor. However, He is a only one person Pushing heavy JPOV. Manacpowers (talk) 19:11, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Taekwondo
A discussion on a Korean language source here would benefit from some Korean speaking input. Thanks. --Nate1481(t/c) 12:16, 30 June 2008 (UTC)