Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law Enforcement/Archive 4

Archived away!
Latest archive has been done! SGGH 20:36, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Good, who do we reckon should write the note for Patchbook? hmm, I volunteer as i haven't even spoke to him and he my listen ... nah I doubt it actually! Dep. Garcia ( Talk  |  Help Desk  |  Complaints  ) 20:39, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Let's not do anything yet, we can blissfully do nothing now. Only if he does something wrong in the future shall we intervene in the way that we normally would be vandalising or attacks or whatever, other than that lets wash out hands of it and hope that he contributes helpfully from now on. SGGH 20:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, are we still going to remove patch collecting from our scope or should we just "play-it-by-ear" for now? Dep. Garcia ( Talk  |  Help Desk  |  Complaints  ) 20:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Remove it, ill do it now. I don't think it falls into the scope of our project. SGGH 23:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * not that it means much, but just for the record, I strongly agree EMT1871 23:15, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Guys, sorry I just got this, that is a brilliant solution. I too am disassociating myself with further edits. Let him wallow in this own article and show his character thus. Thank you for being as supportive as you have. Chris 03:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Right, there is one last thing left to do. We will all (I hope anyway) put things behind us. I don't want to step on toes here, but all the users involved ought to just revert to standard, no altered treatment both' negative or positive for any user involved in any future projects, how 'bout that? :) SGGH 22:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Missing topics
Hello. I have a short list of missing topics related to law and law enforcement. I've tried to find all the similar articles but I'd appreciate if anyone could have a good look at them. Thank you. - Skysmith 13:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * We also have a list here, which needs to be updated a revised to reflect the recently discussed scope of this project. Bobanny 22:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Some one might have to go through skysmiths list and work out what topics would be better off as sections in already existing article, according to my brief glance just now... SGGH 22:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

United States law enforcement decorations
I have split up the huge List of U.S. state and local law enforcement agencies, though the coding/appearance could be better. I propose to split this one up tooo, as it is potentially unwieldy. Chris 08:42, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I always think articles that just list wikilinks seem so... weird. SGGH 18:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Decoy car
Having watched a documentary on this last night, I created the following article. It's got references and sources cited, it just needs expansion.

If anyone can help me, I'd be grateful for that! --sunstar nettalk 10:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Have given it a go, its a neat little article, but one thing I think is to remove things like "is used by the california police" or "essex police" because this system is used by countless law enforcement agencies in the UK and American at least. We have them prowling A&S down here, good work :)! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SGGH (talk • contribs) 18:05, 1 March 2007 (UTC).
 * I didn't notice this message before, but I put a "merge with Bait car tag on the article. I'm not sure what the most common (and therefore most appropriate) term is globally, but "bait car" is the preferred term in my neck of the woods, where BaitCar.com is a popular part of the local culture. Bobanny 23:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I merged Decoy car into Bait car in lieu of any objections. It's a little more meaty than were the individual articles, but could still use a spit shine.Bobanny 04:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Good good, I've jumped the assessment up one notch, and removed the WPLAW tag, its not anything to do with legal stuff... its a police thing not a courts thing. SGGH 10:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

the banner
The banner seems to be vomiting techno-blurb all over some of the talk pages (see the talk page for Decoy car above to see what I mean) can someone take a look and fix it? I reverted the most recent change but doesn't seem to have had an effect. SGGH 19:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It looks fine to me. -- Necrothesp 19:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

It has stopped now, i think the revert to the banner template did the trick, if you check this history, the edit before my revert added content which was very similar to the technobabble schpeeled at the bottom of the banner on talk pages that has any other than a NA rating... SGGH 20:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

{{#switch: {{{class|}}} | FA|fa|Fa|A|a|GA|ga|Ga|B|b|Start|start|Stub|stub|Future|future|Disambig|disambig|Template|template|Cat|cat|NA|na|Na |List|list| = + {{{!}}style="text-align:left;" width="100%" + {{!}}-  + {{!}} {{#switch: {{{class|}}} + | FA|fa|Fa|A|a|GA|ga|Ga|B|b|Start|start|Stub|stub|Future|future|Disambig|disambig|Template|template|Cat|cat|NA|na|Na |List|list = {{{{{class}}}-Class}} +   + {{#if:{{{hide-auto-cats|}}}|| + {{#switch:{{{class}}}

Thats what it was, it was sitting at the bottom of the template before I reverted it SGGH 20:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Police force stubs
Any I can expand upon?? If so, just let me know! --sunstar nettalk 14:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Check here here and for police force stubs in here :) SGGH 16:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * And here for another variation. I'd suggest going more by what would be interesting to you, just because there's an endless sea of stubs to choose from. Maybe a country you'd be interested in learning about, or showing off what you already know. Looks to me that the UK police forces are in the best shape over-all. Cheers, Bobanny 16:31, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Youth Offending Team
This article has been asking for a peer review since January, and it has been up on the notice board for months as well, can someone please take care of this? :) SGGH 15:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Impersonating a police officer
I haven't found any article describing the US crime of impersonating a police officer, which is frequently referenced in other articles such as Nathaniel Bar-Jonah, Kenneth Parnell, Tom Murray (politician), Carl Freer, and so on. I imagine there are similar laws related to impersonating other public officials that could be lumped in. Does such an article exist, and if not what's the best title to create it under? Thanks. Deco 13:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It comes under Section 90 of the 1996 Police Act over here in the UK, but I can't find an article relating specifically to that either. I find it hard to believe there isn't an article on it, so I would be inclined to keep searching before committing to writing something! SGGH 14:38, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, I'm pretty sure impersonating a police officer in the US is known as 'impersonating a peace officer'? I think that's right... SGGH 14:40, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Here you go, direct from my copy of the Beat Officers Companion:
 * An offence is committed by any person who, not being a member of a police force or special constabulary, wears any article... has in his possession any artice.... intends to impersonate...makes any statement or does anything calculated to suggest he is an officer... tries to gain access to any prohbitied place as a result of the uniform Section 90 of the 1996 Police Act :) SGGH 14:45, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I knew it - Police community support officers are impersonating police officers (they wish), lol Dep. Garcia ( Talk  |  Help Desk  |  Complaints  ) 18:09, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah, how could they miss that out? :O SGGH 19:09, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Create Category:Crimes by year ?
While categorizing an article about a particular crime, I noticed that there doesn't seem to be a category for the year of the crime. Almost everything in Wikipedia has a category indicating the associated year of the event/birth/creation/etc, so it looks like an oversight that nobody has created Category:Crimes by year or something similar.

Since your project seems like one that would have significant influence on maintaining such a category, what do you guys think? Currently the only option for categorizing crimes by year is to put them under the "year by country" category, such as Category:1977 in the United States for a US crime that occured in 1977. It might be useful as a way to study crimes in a similar historical context, and would be a consistent category tag that basically any crime event article could include. Dugwiki 17:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * This project doesn't include crime in its scope, that'd be these folks.Bobanny 18:41, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Gotcha, thanks for the link. :) Dugwiki 21:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Richard Walter - Fraudulent Article
Richard Walter, which claims to be part of this project, seems to have been created with a large amount of false information, perhaps gathered from a phony/ anonymous press release posted at "www.richarddwalter.com". Walters's false testimony was actually confirmed in NY v. Robie Drake. In 2003 and again in 2006 his testimony was determined to be false, misleading and could be presumed perjurious on at least one point (perjury being a very specific type of false testimony) by a fedeal judge.

This is all confirmed in the judge's ruling at: "NY v. Robie Drake" (2006). The acrobat file here was obtained from United States District Court, Western District of New York. Just select judge John Elfvin's rulings for March 2006 re: the Drake case. You'll need to select more than 100 documents per page to see it. Get the drake file.

I editted the many factual inaccurancies in the page with references to the court record online and articles regarding Mr. Walter's false testimony. However an anonymous editor immediately swooped in and removed those edits. I have reverted the page and posted a warning to the anonymous editor. Now, an original anonymous creator of this false information page designed to rescue Walters flailing credibility, has stepped in to replace anonymous editor. I am not certain these are two separate individuals.

At any rate, I expected that whoever created the page would change the edits and that this issue would become something that needed an official look - as there are quite a few dedicated and obsessed people determined to keep the actual substance of this court ruling from being public. It hurts Walter, and it hurts more than a few because of their association with him.

Anonymous editor 24.240.17.187 has removed the Richard Walter page at least six times aleady and has also removed this section from the Talk: Richard Walter page at least six times, since 3/18/07 to prevent me from even having a civil discussion about it with others. has done the same. Not exactly actions that are conducive to resolution, let alone communication. They just don't want the ruling public because of their hero worship (that's assuming that one of the individuals is not actually Richard Walter -this a very distinct possibility).

This informaion is not libelous. It is corrective. It is the posting of a court's ruling using the court's own document. The Wikipedia entry currently states that Walters was exonnerated by the judge in the Drake case. This is not just false, it is beligerantly deceptive at this point.

Note please that I am the only person in this dispute who must testify in court on a regular basis, under oath - and that I am also the only one willing to be identified.

As it stands, the article is full of false and bloated information about Walters that is designed to prop him up despite the court ruling - so that those who use Wikipedia as their primary nfo source (and there are many too many) will be misled. It is a disgrace to the professional community, and it is the furtherance of a weakly crafted fraud.

Do not hesitate to contact me for further assistance.

Brent E. Turvey, MS - Forensic Scientist Bturvey

Continued libel
It is a good thing that Mr. Turvey points out that Mr. Walter has "flailing credibility". Mr. Turvey's credibilty must remain impeccable, lest he lose financial stability as an "expert witness". If that happened, he might find himself with money troubles and may even end up with a tax lien on his house: http://dnr.alaska.gov/recorders/sag/DocDisplay.cfm?SelectedDoc=20060017500&District=103

08:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Both of these posts are relating to a subject that has already been (or shall be shortly) taken to dispute resolution and the bio-wikiproject, at best it is also wikiproject crime but as per our scope I am 99% certain that it has nothing to do with us. SGGH 08:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Not that I'm shrugging it off or anything. But dispute resolution is much better as it's quite serious allegations and so on. SGGH 08:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The article is locked, so there's not a lot we could do anyway. In any case, this is an encyclopedia, not a battleground, nor a place to make or break reputations, win elections or sway court decisions. Take it outside, kids.  Bobanny 16:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Has been sent to NoticeboardBLP now, they will take it from here. SGGH 20:07, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

requested articles
There are a lot of articles in the requested articles list that are outisde of the newly defined scope. The list itself is a duplicated version of WP:RA anywho so it's okay for users to start going through deleting those that are outside our scope (the criminology onces stand out the most, thats part of a sociology wikiproject) also the law ones are outside our scope, and I think famous criminals also? The latter being wp:crime or wp:bio. If others could join me in the clear out it would be appreciated. SGGH 15:47, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've culled quite a few, but some may have still slipped through the gaps. I've removed all criminal bios, criminology topics and other unrelated articles. Keeping specific police technique articles, officer bios etc. SGGH 15:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

New plan
I've been thinking that we open up something new for this project, perhaps some sort of collaboration system or something? Perhaps have fortnightly or monthly projects to improve all the articles about police forces in the united kingdom, or all the articles on police vehicles or something. Or any other ideas about project sub-projects or... anything else at all that people have? SGGH 14:46, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me, have weeks or months were we improve all certain types of articles (eg. police stations/forces etc.), count me in!! Dep. Garcia ( Talk  |  Help Desk  |  Complaints  ) 16:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe a meeting on IRC or an IM to discuss a plan?Jeff503 00:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well for starters we could standardise all the articles of policing by country to a "law enforcement in...." and then fill in the gaps in the coverage of each countries law enforcement, that would be a good project to get started on, so I'm thinking.


 * 1) make sure the articles are all "law enforcement in..." (or another suitable title that we can hash out here)
 * 2) make sure they all follow a roughly similar format and are all up to scratch
 * 3) fill in any gaps in coverage with new articles.

What do you think of this initial plan? SGGH 10:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Basically working off of this:

SGGH 10:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Template for deletion
Thought some of you might want to weigh in on the discussion underway to delete the policing by country template. The discussion is here. Bobanny 05:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Internet brigades
I'm not quite sure if this is within the scope of this project, but I thought I'd ask just in case.

Some help is needed in making a potential article over here - about the alleged flooding of the internet with information by secret police used by a few governments (currently the Russians and the Chinese have been alleged of doing this). Some notable sources are available in the references section.

The original article (which was very problematic and was deleted) was purely based on the FSB allegations, and an attempt is being made to make the future potential article more international. It is currently up for deletion review over here, where there is a tie of votes (9 to 9) between those who endorse its deletion and those who want it overturned and relisted.

This is a very controversial topic, but in my view there seem to be enough notable sources to make a decent article out of it, so I hope that someone here may be able to help. Esn 01:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Rigspolitiet
I created this stub article on the Danish national police force, I'm having a hard time finding references for it (the only sources I have are Police Stop! and Police, Camera, Action! videos - but finding other sources for this is tricky.

I'm not sure if this falls within the scope of this project or not, but any help is appreciated! --sunstar nettalk 17:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You might want to move it to "Law enforcement in Denmark" or "Policing in Denmark to match the title in the redlink in the template above :) I'll dig around for some sources for you. SGGH 20:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I'd keep it with that title. It's the title of an organisation, not a generic article on policing in Denmark. -- Necrothesp 12:56, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * True SGGH 15:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Look here by the way for starters :) SGGH 17:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I have started it off for anyone else to follow up and clear up! SGGH 18:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Newsletter
Please see Bot_requests - I am considering a newsletter for this WikiProject. Feedback is welcome. --SunStar Net talk 18:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It is a good idea but i dont really think it is compulsory just yet, as we do have a bulletin board on the front page, maybe when this project gets bigger we may need one! Regards Dep. Garcia ( Talk  |  Help Desk  |  Complaints  ) 14:28, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Watch this tonight
Wednesday - 4th - April - 2007

8:30pm to 9:00pm on BBC1 - Tonight

Car Wars starring GMP's TASU

Here is the describtion from Radio Times

''New series. Documentary series following Manchester's elite Tactical Vehicle Crime Unit - 20 officers specially trained in catching gangs who use stolen cars to commit burglaries, robberies and ram raids. Tackling one of the country's highest rates of car crime and violence, the force is uniquely allowed to use unmarked high performance cars to track the criminals. The cops are on the hunt for one of Manchester's most violent criminals, and their search leads them to a haul of cocaine.''

Dep. Garcia ( Talk  |  Help Desk  |  Complaints  ) 14:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

P.S I might be on there!!! But due to me being a firearms officer my face may be blurred or i may not be shown <b style="color:red;">Dep. Garcia</b> ( Talk  |  Help Desk  |  Complaints  ) 14:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

"my face may be blurred" - perhaps for the best :P. Enjoy your time in the limelight, I hope to get on StreetCrimeUK one day! SGGH 14:57, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I might be on StreetCrimeUK for the wrong reasons, lol! <b style="color:red;">Dep. Garcia</b> ( Talk  |  Help Desk  |  Complaints  ) 15:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Proposed merger at Crime statistics
For info, I've suggested a merger for various articles on global issues of crime statistics. (There are national articles too (e.g. National Crime Victimization Survey and British Crime Survey). Any thoughts? --VSerrata 12:50, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It would take some careful eradication of duplication and some clever organisational tricks, but yes it seems like a good idea to me. However if the merge takes place, it seems that only the USA and the UK will be examples, which needs to change to avoid failing-to-represent-the-whole-world problems :) SGGH 13:52, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah. There are some wider sources available in English, from work done by the UN and EU, so NPOV ought to be achievable (eventually). :) I've just added a new Category:Crime data to help organise what exists so far. --VSerrata 14:59, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Cool, keep up the good work! SGGH 21:59, 5 April 2007 (UTC)