Wikipedia talk:WikiProject London Transport/Archive 7

Cruise Companies - are they notable?
I randomly came across the article Bateaux London which seems, at first sight, to be a wholly un-notable river cruise company. Is there some consensus that all London cruise companies are inherently notable? I was about to start a deletion process but though I should ask here first. Sionk (talk) 21:12, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Class 458 - Request for consultation
Talk:British Rail Class 458 -- Alarics (talk) 14:12, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Two WikiProject articles on the Main Page
9 March and 10 March will see two WikiProject London Transport articles on the main page. The first, tomorrow, will be 1910 London to Manchester air race followed by Baker Street and Waterloo Railway on Saturday.--DavidCane (talk) 18:43, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * How did Raul allow that? WP:TFA/R drops three points "if a similar article was recently featured on the main page within two weeks of requested date". -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:33, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I nominated BS&WR first which got five points, and the air race was just picked as a non-specific date article. They are reasonably dissimilar - one's about planes, the other about trains. I suppose that demonstrates the wide remit of the project.--DavidCane (talk) 21:25, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

London Underground electic locomotives
Hi, I have updated and expanded the London Underground electric locomotives article, and have conseqently removed the {no footnotes} tag, since all of it is now referenced inline. However, I am left with two {citation needed} tags, one of which I can find no evidence for, and the other where I can find evidence that contradicts it, which I have noted on the talk page. If it were a canal article, I would remove both statements to the talk page, but as I am not part of the London Transport project, thought I would ask for an opinion on what to do. Bob1960evens (talk) 16:17, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Hammersmith & City line navbox
Hey, it'd be good if someone could take a look at the concern I raised a couple of days ago at Template talk:Hammersmith & City line navbox. That page understandably doesn't get much traffic. – Arms &amp; Hearts (talk) 18:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:London Underground Tube Stations & Rolling Stock
Template:London Underground Tube Stations & Rolling Stock has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Simply south...... flapping wings into buildings for just 6 years 11:26, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Dead link: entry/exit figures
This link doesn't work anymore D: And, because it is on all the pages about tube stations ... could someone replace it? ty --0ne, Two, Three (talk) 12:05, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems that TfL has removed the data altogether. The best that now seems to be available is here which is a spreadsheet for the most recent year only.--DavidCane (talk) 08:51, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I have changed Infobox London station to use different citations for the old years and the most recent year (2011). An example can be seen at Barking station.
 * Citation London Underground performance exits is used for 2011.
 * Citation London Underground performance exits dead is used for earlier years.
 * I suspect TfL will replace the 2011 spreadsheet with a new one in 2013 to cover this year's data. --DavidCane (talk) 09:54, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Herne Hill railway station
Herne Hill railway station will by Today's Featured Article tomorrow, the 150th anniversary of its opening.--DavidCane (talk) 00:37, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * and I will be unavailable from 09:00, 25 August 2012 (UTC) until 18:00, 26 August 2012 (UTC) so won't be able to fix any well-meant bad edits. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

DLR usage now available

 * For 2007 - 2008 and 2008 - 2009 see here.
 * For 2010 - 2011 see here.

Simply south...... eating shoes for just 6 years 21:52, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Another year passes
So another year has passed. The project has added 103 articles, three good articles and two featured articles, plus four new members.

--DavidCane (talk) 23:08, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Possible date vandalism
An anonymous user has changed a few dates on articles related to trains. Several times he changed the A60 in-service date to an incorrect one, and he did the same at Anglia Railways. Both of these have now been fixed with references.

They have also changed the refurbishment dates for London Underground 1973 stock by 1 year. I don't have any references to hand, but could someone check to see which dates are correct. I don't have time now to check whether they have contributions under other IPs, but it will be worth doing. We should also keep an eye out for future date changes. Thryduulf (talk) 09:57, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Template:Infobox TfL line nominated for deletion
Template:Infobox TfL line has been nominated for deletion. Please comment at Templates for discussion/Log/2012 October 24. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:40, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Template:Access icon
Template:Access icon - which is used in all transclusions of where access is non-blank - has been nominated for deletion. Please comment at Templates for discussion/Log/2012 November 12. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:59, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

FAR
Greetings! I have recently nominated London congestion charge, an article under this projects purview, for review. Interested editors are welcome to comment at the review page. Thank you. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:24, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It would be a shame to lose this one from the project's featured article set, especially as it will be the tenth anniversary of the charge in February next year. This was nominated at FAC by Regan123, who has been inactive since February 2008. Anyone fancy a go at bringing it up to modern standards.--DavidCane (talk) 18:37, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ha! It made me smile - in a nice way - to see this. It is also almost the tenth anniversary of the first time I got in such a rage that I packed in Wikipedia ... yup, over that article. No Sherlock Holmesing around this please but wow, it's been a while. I guess you'll excuse me if I stay away from the article for another ten years or so ... :) Cheers DBaK (talk) 12:01, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

London Buses route 24 edits
Can someone check the recent edits to London Buses route 24? I am a bit suspicious of them. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 20:02, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What do you find suspicious?--DavidCane (talk) 22:20, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * It was the edits by . Looks like it is now sorted. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 22:38, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

1938 stock emergency equipment diagram
A picture I uploaded to Commons showing the diagram of the location of emergency equipment on the London Underground 1938 Stock has been nominated for deletion there. The key question is when the diagram was published - if anyone is able to help determine this or has any other relevant comments, please contribute to the discussion at Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Gb-ltmd-1938ts Emergency Equipment.jpg. Thryduulf (talk) 00:55, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Metropolitan Railway
To celebrate the 150th anniversary of the opening of the first section of the world's first underground railway, Metropolitan Railway will be on the main page as today's featured article on 10 January. The article was primarily edited and steered through the featured article process by Edgepedia.--DavidCane (talk) 01:50, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * We got 42,558 page views yesterday! Christian Wolmar in the Evening Standard  and the Diamondgeezer blog have speculated as to why TfL got the wrong day. Edgepedia (talk) 14:32, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Railway station articles: lists of bus routes
In articles about railway stations (whether National Rail or London Underground), how much detail should be given concerning bus routes? Until recently, they were typically a simple comma-separated list within a paragraph, but a number have recently been converted to tables which occupy much more space. An example is. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:34, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * My first reaction was unnecessary trivia, but one person's trivia is another's useful information. Indeed, I nearly needed this information myself last week, as I came down to E&C on the Bakerloo, intending to change onto the Northern Line southbound, only to find it wasn't running. (In the end, I was able to work out an alternative route by NR). My only comments would be that this information should ideally be sourced and up-to-date. (I don't know how often bus routes change round there). Also, the table is rather large compared with the article - it might be worth having it collapsed by default.  An  optimist on the  run!  11:57, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Such listings are against WP:NOTDIR and WP:NOTTRAVEL, and those policies are a bigger consensus than anything that may be said here.--Charles (talk) 13:02, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Aesthetics matter, and that table looks ugly. There's as always the question of maintenance. If there's an external link that provides the same information I think that would be preferable. Mackensen (talk) 13:48, 3 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I noticed some of these being added earlier in the week, but haven't had the time to do anything about them. They are not necessary and, like the platform arrangement diagrams that appeared on some articles for a while, they take up a disproportionate amount of space on the page, so that the lists are often longer than the text itself.--DavidCane (talk) 21:53, 3 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I added those - to be honest I don't like them but I don't know how to make them look better. I like the idea of a drop down menu as I appreciate that some are quite lengthy. I just think these offer more information than just listing the bus routes served - and it is handy for people with a slow and shared internet connection, like myself, to have all the info on one page. If anyone can give me a solution to making them look better, all comments are welcome - I am quite busy with my work currently and my next holiday is the week beginning 18 February, so it is unlikely I will be able to do editing / adding until then. To be honest, I am a complete beginner - I don't know how to do any fancy stuff - but then again I am quite good at computing, so I should be able to pick up something pretty quickly. CycloneConnor (talk) 17:21, 14 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I would note that railway station articles that have been rated as 'good' contain a prose summary of bus services, rather than a table. MRSC (talk) 14:44, 19 January 2013 (UTC)


 * With the recent launch of Wikivoyage, it's possible that Wikivoyage may be a better place for bus service information. This seems to be an opinion held at some recent deletion discussions, such as Articles for deletion/List of bus routes in Bury St. Edmunds & Newmarket. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:35, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

USAmerican psuado history and bias
Again we have USAmericans altering factual information and replacing it with the fake history that USAmericans are taught in the article History of the London Underground we have the fake clain that the Atlantic Avenue Tunnel in New York City, opened in 1844 is somehow relevent to the underground railway and it is somehow the first it is not in reaql history or to people educated outside the USA the Wapping Tunnel in reality proceded it, how can we educate the USAmerican of real facts and prevent them from altering real facts and inserting their agena on this "encyclopedia" of course I am aware the encyclopedias in the USa probably do cotain lies such as this but wikipedia needs to contain real facts not agtendas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.163.45 (talk) 11:40, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Naming of Uxbridge Road tube station
Please comment at Talk:Uxbridge Road tube station. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:57, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Name the station
Any ideas where this could be? It apparently dates from 1890. Lamberhurst (talk) 09:29, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I would say that it's somewhere on the Central London Railway. Compare the photo in
 * which shows Bank station (CLR) with the same style of tiling, advertising, wooden platform and "NO EXIT" sign hung from the ceiling. Points against other lines are that the tiling is all wrong for a Yerkes station, which eliminates the Bakerloo, the Charing Cross Euston & Hampstead and the Piccadilly; and the tunnel entrance seems a little too big for the City & South London; and there's a bridge which doesn't seem in the right position relative to the tunnel for either of the Waterloo & City stations. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:41, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
 * More: slightly above and to the left of the bowler-hat (worn by the seated man) is the staion name sign. Could two of the last four letters be " A_C_"? If so, only one fits - Marble Arch. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:48, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I believe you're correct. Having compared it with more recent images, this looks like it could be the eastbound platform; in particular, the shape of the tunnel mouth matches. Lamberhurst (talk) 08:25, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I believe you're correct. Having compared it with more recent images, this looks like it could be the eastbound platform; in particular, the shape of the tunnel mouth matches. Lamberhurst (talk) 08:25, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Looking at the same article, how about this image? Simply south...... catching SNOWballs for just 6 years 12:21, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The tiling looks similar to that found at Aldwych, see File:Aldwych_tube_station_platform_in_1994.jpg. Could this be one of the Great Northern, Piccadilly and Brompton Railway stations? Lamberhurst (talk) 21:51, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * If it is, it could only be Aldwych itself - at the other stations, the "shelter" accommodation was on the platform only, and not on the tracks - the trains still needed to run. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:32, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Compare with this image of Aldwych: the same line of jackets on the wall leading to a brick-lined tunnel opening with three lights, plus the same double-line tiling effect. Lamberhurst (talk) 13:04, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Colored link text
Interested parties, please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains, where a discussion has been going on about the practice of changing colors on links (which is discouraged by a Manual of Style guideline) in running text and in "Station layout" tables. I don't know how many, if any, articles under this project contain such links/tables, but folks here might have opinions or additional information they want to offer. - dcljr (talk) 18:16, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

DLR rolling stock - sources problem
I've just noticed that most of the sources for the Docklands Light Railway rolling stock article are either dead or inaccessible. Of the ones that aren't, most either don't or no longer verify the text they are associated with. I haven't got time to sort this myself at the minute, but it really needs doing. Thryduulf (talk) 17:55, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

TfL Website
Reading this, I noticed the TfL website is to be re-launched in July. Guess we could have a problem with external links and references using the site? Edgepedia (talk) 05:48, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

List of night buses in London has been nominated for deletion
The List of night buses in London article has been nominated for deletion at Articles for deletion/List of night buses in London. Your comments there would be welcome. Thryduulf (talk) 09:24, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Frank Pick on Today's Featured Article
To celebrate 80 years since the coming into existence of the London Passenger Transport Board on 1 July 1933, Frank Pick, its Chief Executive will be the Today's Featured Article on 1 July.--DavidCane (talk) 22:34, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Interchange
How far do we go with interchanges in the infobox for rail and Underground stations? See the OSI row in London Waterloo station; it seems silly to walk from Waterloo to Southwark (which has Jubilee line only) when you could board the same line at Waterloo. Is there an official list? -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:33, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Please help get LT-related listed buildings ready for the start of the Wiki Loves Monuments competition on 1st September!
In September the UK is taking part for the first time in the international photography competition Wiki Loves Monuments. Participants will be invited to submit pictures of listed buildings of significant importance (grades I or grade II*), as recorded by English Heritage. The main external website for competitors can be found here, and you can leave a message there if you have queries about competing. Do please join in, and let people in your local area know of this excellent way in which both existing and new Wiki users can help improve the encyclopaedia by contributing photographs of local listed structures. What about organizing a local Wikimeet to attract new people?

In preparation for the start of the competition on 1st September there is still work to be done, and we would like to ask for the help of members of this wikiproject. Your local and expert knowledge of LT-related structures will be invaluable in ensuring that the lists of eligible buildings are up to date and correctly formatted. If you look at Listed buildings in the United Kingdom you will see how many structures are included. If you then follow the link to Listed buildings in England, you can get to the detailed lists for your area. Alternatively have a look at the WLM planning table. Can you help to ensure that the lists for your area are up to date and well presented?

Some of the lists have been semi-automatically generated from data provided by English Heritage. These use pre formatted templates (eg EH header) which will make it much easier for competition participants to upload their photographs to Commons as an automated process. Please don't change the template structure, as we need to ensure that the templates are properly compatible with the WLM standards that are in use worldwide. The format will allow a bot automatically to collect the information and to put it into the international Monuments Database.

The data still needs the attention of local editors:
 * The "title" may need wikilinking to a suitable article name (whether we currently have that article or not). If there are several buildings in one street all of the wikilinks point at an article about the street; however each entry has a separate line in the list.
 * The "location" column looks and sorts better if just the parish or town is included (& wikilinked).
 * The "date completed" column sometimes has eg "C19" for 19th century, and "C1850" for c. 1850 when the date is uncertain - these need to be corrected manually.
 * The "grid ref & lat & long" (which is occasionally missing) may be given to 8 characters — only 6 (grid ref) or 5 (lat & long) are really needed.
 * Clicking on the "list entry number" should take you to the data sheet for that entry on the English Heritage database which can be checked if needed for details.
 * The image column should have a picture added if we already have a suitable image on Commons. (N.B. if you are going to be taking photos yourself for inclusion in the competition don't upload them until September)
 * References may be added according to normal WP practice.

For further information, please see [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2013_in_the_United_Kingdom Commons:Wiki Loves Monuments 2013 in the United Kingdom. ]

If you have any queries, please post them not below but on the Organizers' help page on Commons.

Anything you can do to help improve these lists will be much appreciated.

--MichaelMaggs (talk) 06:52, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Selective vehicle detection
With iBus now fully rolled out, I suspect that much of the selective vehicle detection article is now out of date. Can someone who knows more about this system please update the article to match the current state of affairs? Thanks, -- The Anome (talk) 07:22, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

S Stock on the District line
Anyone seen anything official on S Stock trains running on the District line? I've been reverting claims in the last few days and there are photos such as http://www.flickr.com/photos/juliang2006/9670888083 (and the previous one) and a video on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qndzkzwai9c) of an S Stock train with announcements saying it's a District line train to Earl's Court running between and one of a train running from Sloane Square to Monument (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CgZ9IsEu3Y) with signs saying it's going to West Ham. All not reliable sources with other possible explanations, the photos could be of test trains; the video could be Circle line trains with the wrong announcements. Edgepedia (talk) 18:29, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Will the Edgware Road-Wimbledon route continue to be worked using part of the Circle/H&C fleet, or will it be finally assimilated into the District proper? If the former, it's legit to find S7 working a District service, as a stock positioning working to or from Barking, where some of the C Stock is stabled. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:23, 5 September 2013 (UTC)


 * According to page 556 of Underground News October 2013 edition, the monthly (paper) publication of the London Underground Railway Society the first S7 S Stock trains began service on the District and Circle Lines on the 2nd September. On the District Line it only travelled between Olympia and West Ham.


 * I have seen a timetable which suggests that at weekends it reverses at Parsons Green, only using Olympia when travelling to / from Lille Bridge depot. I have no information about the Edgware Road - Wimbledon service.


 * I have a youtube film of it at several stations in the District Line (I'm youtuber citytransportinfo) Spsmiler (talk) 13:30, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Platform layouts (2013 discussion)
There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains which relates to previous discussions on this page. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:12, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Station naming guidelines
I noticed this discussion rather late which is of importance Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles. Simply south...... cooking letters for just 7 years 18:46, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Proposed lines and extensions
is engaging on a crusade against any mention of proposed lines, routings and extensions at Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template and elsewhere. If he is successful in imposing his views on the non-notability and elimination of unbuilt proposals, then large sections of the history of London’s Underground will be deleted. Useddenim (talk) 12:19, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Untrue. WP:RDT explains how to use templates, and all I did was remove controversial content, not affecting the example at all. 117Avenue (talk) 02:44, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Annual review
It's been a quiet year. Since 30 September 2012, the project has added 63 articles, five good articles, one featured article (promoted from a good article) and one featured topic. One featured article has been delisted. Membership has increased by one, though the number of active users has decreased.

--DavidCane (talk) 01:50, 13 November 2013 (UTC)