Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lutheranism

Lutheran Music
I have a background in Lutheran church music and can start an article on it. I am looking for some feedback concerning the scope for the article. The article could focus on: My idea right now is to start with a short history of Lutheran music. Beyond this, the issue is origin verses use. Commits, questions, suggestions? Weberc (talk) 16:17, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Lutheran composers
 * Musical compositions used in Lutheran liturgy
 * Lutheran hymnody
 * History of Lutheran music

Here is the article as it is being constructed. Weberc (talk) 17:45, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm very interested in helping with this article if I have time. Although I'm not an ultimate expert on the subject, I've devoted a lot of time researching it as a church musician and as someone who enjoys preserving the heritage of Lutheran hymnody.  I'll open up the talk page on that proposed article.  Thanks!  --Dulcimerist (talk) 16:32, 13 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I proofread it and helped to smooth out the existing material. Hopefully the changes I made aren't too drastic, as I ended up making more adjustments and spending much more time with the article than I had intended.  I apologize if I did too much work on it.  Please let me know if I can be of more help.  Thanks for starting this article!  --Dulcimerist (talk) 07:20, 14 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Cool. I'm glad you are working on it!--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 02:24, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Christian Symbolism Article
Should the Christian symbolism article have a WikiProject Lutheranism tag on it? It seems somewhat relevant to our WikiProject, although it would likely be a low priority. I don't know how to go about adding the tag, and thought I should ask here first before adding the tag anyway. Thanks! --Dulcimerist (talk) 16:48, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Go ahead. Try to include it the way it is on the Lutheranism page-- as a Christianity article that is project Lutheranism supported. You could copy and paste, but you would need to change the importance.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 02:23, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

FAR notice
I have nominated Gregorian chant for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Dana boomer (talk) 14:26, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

I just noticed
that Michaelangelo shows up on the Category:People celebrated in the Lutheran liturgical calendar and I was wondering why that might be, or more to the point, if it is accurate. So I decided to pass this on to you to figure out. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 18:26, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It does appear to be true, but I would question whether it is a DEFINING characteristic of Michaelangelo, and therefore an appropriate categorization. It appears that many people who are celebrated in various churches have been categorized without any regard for categorization guidelines. --JFH (talk) 15:35, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Portraits of 42 protestant reformers
Hi everyone! You may want to have a look at this recently uploaded high resolution picture with portraits of 42 protestant reformers.Beat Estermann (talk) 22:55, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Communicatio idiomatum: Lutheran-Reformed debate
I am working on expanding the patristics aspect of this article but don't know enough to tackle the section on the "Lutheran-Reformed debate" which is unreferenced at the moment. Help would be appreciated. Jpacobb (talk) 21:21, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Beerwolf
Why Beerwolf, when the German is clearly Bearwolf?--DThomsen8 (talk) 01:05, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

AfC submission
This submission might be of interest to this WikiProject. Regards, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 18:49, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Bengt Sundkler
Dear Lutherans: This AfC submission will be deleted soon as a stale draft. Is this a notable subject, and should the page be kept and improved instead? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 15:11, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Anne Delong. I believe this person is notable. He was a professor and had four honorary doctor degrees, including at the University of Tübingen which is a leading university of Lutheran theology.(Diff). His book Bantu Prophets has almost 1000 citations according to Google Scholar which I think is quite high for a modern theological work. And he also had roles of importance outside academica. The article also seems to be in relatively good shape, pretty similar to his Swedish Wikipedia article. Regards, Iselilja (talk) 15:25, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Iselilja. I have added the online link that you provided and created a citation with that reference.  I added the Google Scholar report to External links.  I also found another book reference at the Swedish Wikipedia and added it to the reference section.  I did some copyediting and removed some promotional language.  The article needs work, particularly some inline citations and wikilinks, but since it's not a BLP I have accepted it and it's at Bengt Sundkler. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 16:42, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
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This is a notice about Category:Lutheranism articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. Iceblock (talk) 23:38, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Category:Lutheran sermon writers
Category:Lutheran sermon writers is currently being discussed at WP:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 November 25. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:36, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!


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Requested move proposal, Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Great Apostasy
Hi. I'd like members to have a look at and the accompanying discussion at Talk:Great Apostasy. It seems to me that they alter the in a POV way, giving undue weight to fringe Protestant views of the Catholic Church such as idol-worship, worship of Mary, and the hybrid "pagan Mother-Son worship". And not only that, but these fringe views are copied to the, totally skewing it. The citations are a collection of far-out Christian websites: http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception_end-time_paganism_Catholic_sun-worship, https://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/how-the-sabbath-was-changed, https://www.gotquestions.org/worship-saints-Mary.html, http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/catholic_church_idolatry.html, https://bible.org/question/it-okay-worship-statues-jesus, and a self-published 1914 pamphlet, The Practice of Idolatry, none of which come anywhere near satisfying WP:RS. Any input into the discussion is welcome. I'm copying this to other Christian WikiProjects. Scolaire (talk) 15:19, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Local church listed at Requested moves
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Lutheran denominations reorganization proposal
I'm not sure if this page is watched by many active Wikipedians, but I figured I'd try asking this here anyway on the hope that it is. I recently spent a fair amount of time expanding and sourcing the List of Lutheran denominations. Now that I've substantially finished my work on that list, I'd like to make pages for the many (over 100) Lutheran denominations that don't currently have Wikipedia pages. Unfortunately, many of these denominations are too small to deserve their own pages, possibly including some of the denominations that do currently have their own pages. I see two ways to proceed despite this problem. The first would be to list smaller denominations as a section on the page of the largest denomination in the country (most countries have a dominant Lutheran church and one or more much smaller Lutheran churches). So, for example, the "Evangelical Lutheran Church of Angola" would contain a short paragraph on the "Confessional Lutheran Church in Angola" within a section entitled "Other Lutheran churches in Angola" (or something along those lines).

The second solution I see would be to create a series of articles that focus on Lutheranism by country, with sections on each denomination within the article. Thus "Lutheranism in Angola" could contain a section on the "Evangelical Lutheran Church of Angola" and the "Confessional Lutheran Church in Angola." For countries with one major Lutheran church and several smaller churches, the section on the largest church would contain a brief summary of the church along with a link to its own separate article.

Either way, I would foresee this applying mostly (or only) in the case of African, Asian, and South American Lutheran churches—in other words, in areas where Lutherans have historically been thin on the ground.

If anyone has any thoughts on either of these ideas, or if you have another suggestion on how I might best proceed, please let me know. I'm open to any ideas on how to include information on all the redlinked articles within the List of Lutheran denominations. Bnng (talk) 23:29, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the second option, articles named "Lutheranism in Country", would be better than the first. It would also be possible to move any country-specific detail from the Lutheranism by region article into these articles. In particular, we need a Lutheranism in the United States article for a good overview of the history of the various Lutheran bodies there. Much of the history is already present in the individual denomination articles, but someone not familiar with it would have to read a number of articles to try to understand the big picture. Indyguy (talk) 01:48, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, good, I was hoping you'd chime in. I prefer that option as well, even though it will probably be quite a bit more work. If that ends up being the route we† decide on, do you have any thoughts as to how much information there should be on an individual denomination before it should have its own article? Take, for example, Evangelical Lutheran Church of Angola. Not counting the historical information that doesn't directly pertain to the IELA, do you think there's enough there for it to have its own stand-alone article, in addition to being mentioned in Lutheranism in Angola?


 * †Incidentally, do you know if there are any other Lutheranism-interested editors who are still active on Wikipedia? You're the only one I've seen making a large number of edits recently. Bnng (talk) 02:53, 8 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm still here. I organized Template:Lutheranism_in_the_United_States in 2009 & 2010. Since then, I've realized that there is a better way to organize Lutheran denominations. A simplified version of this approach was used in a practical manner by Jaroslav Pelikan, but I have yet to put it into practice.


 * All of the textbooks on the history of European Protestant theology divide the Lutheran (and some Reformed or Union) theologians of the 1800s into three categories--Kantian, Hegelian, and Christian Existentialist. Mainly they fit into the first two categories. All three groups had their own spectrums, with Objectivist vs. Subjectivist Kantians, the Hegelian Left and Right, and Secular vs. Christian Existentialists.


 * Because Hegel and Kant wrote extensively about political structures it is easy to identify these traits when looking at polity. Basically you can sort all of the Lutheran denominations by their polity style. Theology, worship, internal culture, and translation preferences generally follow the same basic pattern that polity does, but it is not perfect.


 * The impact of polity here is especially due to the history of the free church movement in Germany in the 1800s. It is basically impossible to justify splitting off a free church under a Hegelian framework, because Hegelian philosophy is incompatible with the doctrine of the Lesser magistrates. This locked in certain churches into a Kantian polity.


 * Examples of what I am referring to: European state churches and Evangelical Lutheran Church in America are Hegelian, more or less Hegelian Left. Wisconsin Synod and most of the Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference churches are Hegelian Right.


 * The Missouri Synod and the small split off bodies from it such as the Lutheran Churches of the Reformation are objectivist Kantian. The Missouri Synod has a decent sized Hegelian faction inside it, which is reflected in the polity of the English district. Churches in fellowship or other associations with it across the world are either Kantian, Hegelian, or both.


 * Apostolic Lutherans are also objectivist Kantian. Their polity is similar to the original Stephanite colony which founded the Missouri Synod. The Evangelical Lutheran Synod is also mostly objectivist Kantian, due to their origin in the Johnsonian Awakening in Norway.


 * The Church of the Lutheran Confession and the churches associated with it have both objectivist Kantian and Hegelian Right influences.


 * The Lutheran Brethren are subjectivist Kantian, but there is no strict line separating subjectivist Kantianism from existentialism.


 * The Protes'tant Conference and the Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ have a Christian Existentialist polity.


 * Several forces have served over the last 100 or so years to blur and sharpen these differences. The pan-Lutheran movement and Confessional Lutheran movements attempted to get Kantians and Hegelians together by using the same basic strategy that Thomas Aquinas used to get Dominicans and Franciscans to align as the schola antiqua. Aquinas' Summa Theologica asked different questions while allowing both factions to represent themselves under his own system.


 * Against these two movements have been the ever present issues and impacts from culture, such as communism, Biblical scholarships homosexuality, and the ordination of women. These controversies tend to be resolved along pre-existing philosophical lines. Perceived threats of culture result in people digging in their heels.


 * What advantage does arranging denominations by polity serve for Wikipedia? It is a neutral, objective point of view. It resists the tendency to reinforce the LWF/ILC/CELC distinctions, which tend to be non-neutral in character due to the church politics involved. For example, one liability here is the longstanding practice of the LWF to count as "Lutheran" everyone in every member church body, even those which are union bodies where few members would self-identify as Lutheran. Besides using polity, the other main objective way to arrange the Lutheran denominations of the world is by their country. But with so many countries it makes less sense for the English reader, who probably is not even familiar with all of the countries to begin with. Of course, they aren't familiar with Kantians/Hegelians/Existentialists either, but it isn't that many categories, and they could be briefly explained Epiphyllumlover (talk) 06:09, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

RfC Notification
There is an RfC at the John Bolton article talk page members of this project might interested in taking part in here. -- ψλ  ● ✉ ✓ 01:32, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Ichthus May 2018 is available

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WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject
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Request to add sentence and category to David Trone article
Hello! On behalf of David Trone, I've proposed adding mention of his religion (Lutheranism), as well as mention of his family members' faith and which synagogue they attend, within the "Personal life" section of his Wikipedia article. I've proposed specific text here for one or more volunteer editors to review and implement appropriately. Adding Category:American Lutherans also seems appropriate.

I don't edit articles directly because of my conflict of interest, but I've provided sourcing and markup for consideration. Is a WikiProject Lutheranism member willing to review this request and update the article accordingly? Thanks in advance for any help. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:54, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
 * This edit request has been answered. Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 15:48, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

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OALC controversy section
Why is there no mention of child molestation in the southwest Washington (or others) OALC sect?75.100.226.132 (talk) 08:37, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Women in Red November 2018
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Eastern District (LCMS) listed at Requested moves
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Augsburg Fortress listed at Requested moves
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Church (congregation) listed at Requested moves
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Deletion discussion Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Lutheranism
Please see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Lutheranism – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 03:02, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

John R. Bolton listed at Requested moves
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John R. Bolton listed at Requested moves
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Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
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Rasmus Jensen listed at Requested moves
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articles stuck in draft
Lutheranism articles in "Draft." Currently:
 * User:Weberc/Lutheran music (this one looks promising)
 * (now an article)
 * (now an article)
 * (now an article)
 * (now an article)
 * (now an article)
 * Draft:Mary Holliday
 * Draft:Midwest Luheran Synod
 * Draft:Trinity Education Foundation
 * Draft:Kufre-Abasi Etim
 * Draft:VIVA Inclusive Migrant Network
 * Draft:Kjell Markset
 * (now an article)
 * (now an article)
 * Draft:Martin Edward Lee
 * Draft:Christopher Holman
 * Draft:Mozelle Martin
 * Draft:Macomb Lutheran North
 * (now an article)
 * Draft:Christa Jeitner (textile artist)
 * Draft:Lutheran Indian Ministries (blocked from ever being created)
 * Draft:Institute of Lutheran Theology (renominated) created
 * Draft:Ceylon Evangelical Lutheran Church merged
 * Draft:Trinity Lutheran Church Miles City MT (renominated) merged
 * Draft:Sani Ibrahim Azar (now an article)
 * Draft:Table Talk Radio Podcast deleted 23 July 2019
 * Draft:Serge Maschewski deleted 15 November 2019
 * Draft:Rev. Dorothy Forrest Trumbo deleted 14 December 2019
 * Draft:Biserica Lutherană Confesională din România deleted 7 February 2019
 * Draft:George Scott (politician) deleted 7 May 2019
 * Draft:Ryan Goessl deleted 6 November 2019
 * Draft:Jakobuskirche (Oberkotzau) deleted 23 June 2019
 * Draft:Mark McLaughlin (CVUSD superintendent) deleted 5 June 2019
 * Draft:Xan Krohn deleted 17 February 2019
 * Draft:Pre-Lutheran bibles in vernacular languages merged
 * Draft:Pre-Lutheran bibles in vernacular languages merged

Epiphyllumlover (talk) 00:50, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!
==A requested move discussion is underway to change the title of the article on the hymm "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" to "A mighty fortress is our God"== The discussion is nearing its end unless its relisted. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:27, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

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RfC on ecclesiastical titles
There is a proposal for a new subsection on ecclesiastical titles being conducted at MOS:BIO. Interested editors are encouraged to participate. --Slugger O&#39;Toole (talk) 02:09, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Talk:Our Lady of Medjugorje
Please help by joining the discussion at Talk:Our Lady of Medjugorje. --Governor Sheng (talk) 16:43, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Obituary
Deceased_Wikipedians/2020--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 20:48, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Merging of congregations template
See Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_December_18.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 19:44, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It was merged.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 02:11, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

AfC needs review: Krish O'Mara Vignarajah, CEO of Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service
Hello all. I would kindly like to request a review of the draft submission for Draft:Krish O'Mara Vignarajah, notable immigration advocate, and President and CEO of Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service. Thank you in advance for your consideration.

Immigrant Issues (talk) 16:56, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
 * It got approved as an article, and is "Rated C-class, Low-importance" which I agree. Thank you for your work writing it.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 02:10, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Discussion
Members of this Project may be interested in this discussion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:05, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Articles in Draft

 * User:Weberc/Lutheran music
 * Draft:Faith Lutheran College, Plainland
 * Draft:Jordan B. Cooper
 * Draft:Bishop Laurie Skow-Anderson
 * Draft:Golden Grove Lutheran Primary School
 * Draft:Music in Lutheran services
 * Draft:Ulla Eho-Saario
 * Draft:Dijacson Loyal
 * Draft:Leonhard Kaiser
 * Draft:Merton P. Strommen
 * Draft:Hermann Bahlburg
 * Draft:Reformation numismatics
 * Draft:M. Butschkau
 * Draft:Andreas Grailich
 * Draft:Roald Nikolai Flemestad
 * Draft:East camp
 * Draft:Ezexzo
 * Draft:Foma Alexandrovich Cobley
 * Draft:James Todd Alger
 * Draft:Jon Ignatius Lumanog
 * Draft:John A. Knudsen
 * Draft:Elias Melin
 * Draft:Nathan Johnson (architect)
 * Draft:Matthias Hanke
 * Draft:Victor Karl Hermann Kohlschmidt
 * Draft:Nakeke
 * Draft:Davor Zovko
 * Draft:Emily M. Dickens
 * Draft:Paul Lee (environmentalist)
 * Draft:Friedrich Grote
 * Draft:Muriel Tillinghast
 * Draft:Colonial Rule in India - A Chronology--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 21:32, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Request for comment at Shroud of Turin
There is a new RfC open at Talk:Shroud of Turin which is relevant to this project. Instaurare (talk) 06:40, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like and turns it into something like
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from cite web, cite journal and doi.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

FAR notice
I have nominated Maximus the Confessor for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:36, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod title change
An editor has opened a move discussion for the Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod on its talk page to use either an emdash or an endash with spaces instead of an endash. Your comments are welcome. Indyguy (talk) 20:29, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Indyguy What does the Synod use? They get to call themselves whatever they want. That should supervene our predilections and end debate.  7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 21:53, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * As I commented in the discussion on the talk page., the synod uses an emdash with no spaces. However, from what I can tell, practically no one outside of the synod does. Usually only an unspaced hyphen or sometimes an endash is used in newspaper articles, etc., so the issue of common name comes into play. Indyguy (talk) 22:13, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Indyguy Typographical choices limit what others can (easily, or will) use. I stand by what I wrote earlier.  But it is a miniscule and obscure issue — of import to religious mavens and afficianados only — not unlike Endianism. Not worth arguing over. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 15:40, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * As I said, they get to call themselves what they want and in the style they want. They are free to call themselves a "peanut butter and jelly sandwich" or a "Pastaferian — Oops, not that – it's already taken.  Best regards.  7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 19:02, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Carl XVI Gustaf
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Carl XVI Gustaf that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:57, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Protestant Church in Germany
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Protestant Church in Germany that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 00:13, 2 June 2024 (UTC)