Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Malaysia/Archive 2

MalaysiaKini
I'm probably not the only one but I now have a subscription to MalaysiaKini (but not the archives) so if anyone wants me to verify details in a recent article from there, drop a message on my talk page. Incidentally, Verifiability does not forbid the use of subscription based sources (I've seen this claim before). I guess because few contributors have access, we probably don't make enough use of MalaysiaKini which is unfortunate since it provides an alternative POV to what appears in most of the government linked media and there is limited coverage of some issues outside of Malaysia (meaning no foreign sources). I don't know whether there's ever been any discussion but MalaysiaKini would IMHO meet the definition of Reliable sources in most instances. BTW, do remember that foreign language sources are acceptable if there are no alternatives. So if something is covered in the Chinese media or Malay media then you're welcome to use those as sources. Nil Einne (talk) 22:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ya this could be useful. I also think it is a reliable source, but i've heard other ppl here disagree. Is this a yearly subscribtion? kawaputra torque 06:35, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Apart from Malaysia Kini, the Malaysia Today is also another source. Malaysia Today news sometimes violates NPOV, however, Malaysia Today has stories that do not covered by printed media. For example the PKFZ story.Jannisri (talk) 13:39, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Citing Malaysia Today should nominally be for a "as it was reported" basis, or if the writings in the articles are also verifiable with other news sources (independent or government-owned). MT is not considerably reliable as a source of facts, as writers have occasionally been very outspoken while certain articles border conspiracy theories. - Two hundred percent (talk) 08:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree, the most reliable source of information is New Straits Times. Malaysia Today can provide secondary sources. Jannisri (talk) 08:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm treating the NST in the same vein as MT. The NST has the tendency to border pro-government propaganda itself. - Two hundred percent (talk) 03:35, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Project template up for speedy deletion
Malaysian collaboration nominee

This template is up for deletion. Im not sure if its really useful. If anyone think its useful go ahead and contest the deletion. kawaputra torque 11:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Nvm. Its fixed. kawaputra torque 07:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

March Collaboration
Dear wikipedians, the collaboration of the month for March 2008 is Economy of Malaysia. Lets help make this a better article. Please inform others if you have time. Thanks. ќמшמφטтгמ torque 05:55, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

April Collaboration
Can we decide that Malaysian Airlines is the April collaboration yet?Wai Hong (talk) 15:24, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Standisation of collaboration template
I have to object to part thereof of Kawaputra's indiscriminate reversion at the collab page. It's fair enough if minor changes such as the use of the hash and auto dates on the header are unnecessary, but I for one would prefer at least an additional section for comments, seeing some of our earlier nominations had them. From my experience with other collabs, templates provided for new nominations have space for at least support votes and accompanying comments. What we currently have is a system that apparently requires only votes with no allocated space for actual comments. The layout also implies a dumbed down system that favours numbers of votes instead of solid justifications and consensus. This has resulted in nominations that simply consist of bare votes winning over nominations that are accompanied by helpful explanations as to why the article in question merits a collab (see Malaysian Airlines over Kampar, Perak and Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party for example). - Two hundred percent (talk) 06:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Im sorry 200%. I think i overlooked the comments section before reverting your edits. Ya, go ahead and add that part. I have this knack to simplify everything. I would suggest this, but it is up to u guys:
 * ===Article===
 * # Comments optional/compulsory. ~

ќמшמφטтгמ torque 14:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll have the comment section added after April's nomination is selected. The current configuration is still a bit flawed though, since comments automatically count as support votes. - Two hundred percent (talk) 07:28, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, Im not sure how else we can decide which article gets chosen for the collaboration other than by looking at which article which gets the most votes. Looking at the merits provided by the nominators can lead to uncertainty. I dunno, what others think? ќמшמφטтгמ torque 11:06, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I know participants of this project in general tend to lack critical thinking, but that's not a good excuse to not improve the system. Plenty of collab projects in Wikipedia and WP:AFD rely on consensus rather than vote counts; so having a seperate comment section is a minimum must for fair selection. Besides, a system where one picks nominated articles based on the number of vote is fundamentally flawed due also to sockpuppets. - Two hundred percent (talk) 10:54, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ya, this sounds good. I never thought of it that way. ќמшמφטтгמ torque 03:35, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

May collaboration
It is May 1 and and the collaboration for this month will be Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party. Nominations are now open for the June 2008 collaboration here: WikiProject Malaysia/Collaboration. ќמшמφטтгמ torque 11:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Should Discrimination sidebar be on ketuanan Melayu?
Please comment: Talk:Ketuanan_Melayu. Thanks! Johnleemk | Talk 16:27, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Why not? The link is there, innit? - Two hundred percent (talk) 10:57, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a valid dispute about whether it constitutes an actual form of discrimination. I'm uncomfortable with the way ketuanan Melayu itself is presented on Discrimination sidebar since I don't think it's really a legal form of discrimination per se. Please comment on the talk page! Johnleemk | Talk 12:18, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Abdul Taib Mahmud
This article has been cited by Malaysiakini about him amassing wealth for 27 years: "S'wak CM in Wikipedia: 'Hush hush' in the assembly", Malaysiakini, May 9, 2008. ќמшמφטтгמ torque 11:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Kadet Remaja Sekolah Malaysia‎ -- appeal for assistance
Greetings. User:Keropi88 created this article a couple of weeks ago, but has failed to add substantial content to it. The KRSM page was created during the AfD discussion for another article on a branch of the organization, Sinar Bintang School Cadet Corps (SBKRS), by the same author. The branch article did not survive AfD, but the history was retained so that it could be used as a basis for material on the national organization.

I hope that someone from here at WP:MY can add some material to the article, as the organization is clearly notable. But if it remains in its current mostly-empty state, I will recommend that it be deleted per WP:CSD. Thank you for your time. -- Finngall  talk  21:24, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Draft Guidelines for Lists of companies by country - Feedback Requested
Within WikiProject Companies I am trying to establish guidelines for all Lists of companies by country, the implementation of which would hopefully ensure a minimum quality standard and level of consistency across all of these related but currently disparate articles. The ultimate goal is the improvement of these articles to Featured List status. As a WikiProject that currently has one of these lists within your scope, I would really appreciate your feedback! You can find the draft guidelines here. Thanks for your help as we look to build consensus and improve Wikipedia! - Richc80 (talk) 04:52, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

June Collaboration
I want to suggest we defer the next collab article to July, mainly due to small number of participants in the nominations this month (only 4 votes). Please say if u support or not. If not, we just go ahead with Geography of Malaysia as this months collaboration. Thanks. ќמшמφטтгמ torque 07:30, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to rename "Pedra Branca dispute"
There is a discussion on whether to rename "Pedra Branca dispute" as "Sovereignty over Pedra Branca/Pulau Batu Puteh, Middle Rocks and South Ledge (Malaysia v. Singapore)", as this is the official name of the International Court of Justice case: see "List of International Court of Justice cases". Your comments on the article's talk page are welcome. — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 17:31, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Use of honorifics - Don't
As per WP:NAMES, I would like folks who are updating or adding new articles to not use honorifics (ie. Datuk, Tan Sri, etc) as part of the names of individuals -

"'Wikipedia guidelines permit inline use of titles but forbid inline use of honorifics .. absence of an honorific title from inline usage does not and should not imply that the person does not hold a particular title that is associated with that (absent) honorific title - the infobox is the canonical location for all titles and honors.'"

I assume that we know that its not just Malaysians who are reading Wikipedia. Adding a Tan Sri in front of a person's name would just give a lot of folks that Tan is part of the person's name. Cheers. - Bob K 03:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. See also WP:MOS-MY. We may need to add the part about permitted usage in infobox. ќמшמφטтгמ torque 06:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject: Education in Malaysia proposal
This proposed WikiProject is meant to organize, improve and expand all articles related to Education in Malaysia at all levels, including adult education, vocational education, etc. A lot of the articles in this category need work. If you're interested or would like to discuss this further, please go to WikiProject Proposal entry. Thanks. - Bob K 07:21, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Naming conventions for institutions with no established English translations
I have been doing full edits of the articles of our universities and other higher education related articles and have been using the commonly used Malay names for the public universities. Generally I based my naming convention on how the Ministry of Higher Education lists them in their English language website, except for those which do have common and established English translation of their names like University of Malaya for Universiti Malaya. One reason I did so was due to the haphazard way in which some of the translated names were rendered, eg. Universiti Putra Malaysia was mistranslated as University of Putra rather than Putra University. I understand this might be problematic in view of WP:NC(UE) but there are exceptions provided for (re: WP:NC(UE) - No established usage). I'd like to solicit some feedback and views on this and whether or not we can come out with a consistent policy about this on this Style Manual. Personally I'd still be partial to using an English translation but there should be some consensus achieved on how the names of institutions with no established English versions of their name are translated first before the articles are published. There are way too many articles related to Malaysia that are written in "English" with local language syntax and grammatical rules, eg. I'm pretty certain I saw the word prestasi mistranslated in one article as prestation quite a while back. - Bob K 14:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't mind it being in it's english form, but I concur about the haphazard way some of the universities got renamed. It's appalling. I'd move them back to their original names but the worst thing I could possibly do is do a cut and paste move or have to come up against an admin that's gonna cite WP:NC(UE) for keeping it there. Chan Yin Keen  | User Talk Contribs 13:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If Malay names have never been given any English equivalents, there isn't any point beyond literal translation, especially with those of names that clearly consists of words similar in both English and Malay (i.e. university names). - Two hundred percent (talk) 07:09, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You may also want to disregard local but unusual interpretations of English in Malaysia and stick to British English when working on Malaysian articles. Our education system has done wonders regressing the standards of English for 40 years. - Two hundred percent (talk) 07:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
 * The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
 * The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
 * A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot  ( Disable )  20:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup
Currently, 2570 articles are assigned to this project, of which 501, or 19.5%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 2008-07-14.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. Subscribing is easy - just add a template to your project page. If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 08:44, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Werdnabot
The auto archive thing does not seem to be working. Anybody know how to use it? I have manually archive several discussion which ended earlier than June. The manually archived discussions does not appear at the index. ќמшמφטтгמ torque 05:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

The Werdnabot fairy has come to fix it. &mdash; Werdna &bull; talk 09:05, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks werdna. Er, can u also add to the index discussions which was manually archived? Im not sure how to do that. The index is here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Malaysia/Archive index ќמшמφטтгמ torque 13:14, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Chinese entertainer infobox
Template:Infobox Chinese, Taiwanese, Singaporean, Malaysian actor and singer → Template:Infobox Chinese actor and singer

There has been a requested move at WP:RM for this move. Apparently this infobox only applies to "Chinese-language" entertainers. 70.55.86.69 (talk) 08:55, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Pages
Hi, I was just wondering that could you possibly help me write one of the pages here? (the red ones/the unstriked ones) Thanks, H2H (talk) 13:37, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Malaysia
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 22:44, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Good free photos
There is a set of photos here on flickr that is CC licensed and contains a couple identified Malaysian celebrities as well as possibly some unidentified ones. Go have a look and see if you recognize anyone! Calliopejen1 (talk) 19:20, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

KL transport, Malaysian roads and template abuse
Use of templates to color every instance of the string KL-RTS-KEL in purple, like this, is really bleeping annoying and violates WP:TMP: Templates should not masquerade as article content in the main article namespace; instead, place the text directly into the article.

And yes, this has already spread like a cancer through Malaysian transport and road articles. It's time to kill them. Jpatokal (talk) 09:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll bring these up on TfD as soon as I'm ready. I must note User:Sirap bandung made far more of these things than I thought. It's not just excessive, it went unnoticed for quite some time. - Two hundred percent (talk) 14:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I would advise some caution about which ones to list, since the Template:KL-RTS route/station templates used in the routemap/station infoboxes are still (IMHO) justifiable. The body text ones (KL-RTS-xxx) should be nuked, but they should first be stripped out from the other templates using them. Jpatokal (talk) 16:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course. I'm only targeting those that merely bring up formatted text. - Two hundred percent (talk) 15:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to rename "Middle Rocks, Malaysia"
I have proposed that the article "Middle Rocks, Johor" be renamed to "Middle Rocks". I feel that adding "Johor" to the article name is unnecessary as there is no other article named "Middle Rocks", nor does there appear to be such a place anywhere else in the world. Do weigh in with your comments on the article's talk page so that consensus can be reached on the issue. Thanks. — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 09:20, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for everyone's participation. Consensus was reached to rename the article "Middle Rocks". — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 15:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

We! Will! Wikipedia! Emergency!
WikiProjek Malaysia members are invited to join the the community and other Wikipedians in the Annex, Centrel Market from 16-26 Oct to contribute regarding the first Malayan Emergency from 1948-1960.

Throughout the duration of the project, students, journalists (writers from The Nutgraph & The Star have confirmed), and others will take 1-hour shifts from 11am to 4pm daily to input materials related to the Emergency years. The participants will collectively grow the entries related to Malaya-Malaysia from 1948 to 1960 in the Wikipedia database.

For more information contact The Five Arts Centre or call 603-77254858. Alternatively, you can also contact mark.teh@gmail.com Diagramma Della Verita (talk) 12:13, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

November 2008 Collaboration Article
After long delay here is the new collaboration article:

p/s Do submit new nominations for December or January collab here: WikiProject Malaysia/Collaboration or WikiProject Malaysia/Collaboration/Nominees. ќמшמφטтгמ torque 07:16, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Klang
Klang says: "Klang is the royal capital of the state of Selangor, Malaysia within a district of similar name." -- This is very confusing. What is the "similar name"? (Please edit the article Klang, don't just discuss here.) Thanks. -- 201.53.7.16 (talk) 11:49, 1 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The town known as Klang is actually part of a district of the same name (Klang district). Almost all the area in Klang district is occupied by Klang, the town. Acs 4b  T C U 15:47, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Penang Botanic Gardens
Greetings from a damp & cold England. I am currently putting together an article on the Penang Botanic Gardens, as well as one on its first superintendent, Charles Curtis. Unfortunately, I am unable to find any free use photographs of the gardens and its flora & fauna which would improve the article. Can someone upload some suitable photos and let me know so that I can incorporate them. Cheers. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 12:14, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You could request Flickr authors of such photos to tag their photos for free use (with a valid reason), as some of them are not aware of copyleft licensing. I was able to upload photos for the One Fathom Bank Lighthouse article through this method. - Two hundred percent (talk) 10:20, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Why? Why does it have to be Malaysia...?
Forgive my over-expression on the title. I know the article Malaysia isn't the only one heavily vandalised, but it's more frequently edited in a non-constructive way than any other articles I encounter (maybe because it's in my watchlist...). The article was recently semi-protected for a short while – not many problems there. But when the time expired, you can obviously see more edits being made by looking at its history page. So, I hope that any admins can evaluate my suggestion to indefinitely semi-protect the respective article. Thanks. Hytar (talk) 23:13, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, I know it's unrelated to the article Malaysia, but I wanted to bring out an issue about the List of Astro channels article. The layout is recently overhauled substantially, and in a not-so-pleasant way. I wouldn't call it vandalism, but it does seems like it.
 * The editor who did that "major renovation" didn't even consult its talk page, where I suggested several things to improve the article. I also have other grouses about anonymous editors who are not serious in making edits.
 * I don't know whether the article needs to be semi-protected or not. The admins should know better. Obviously, I'm voicing it out here, and not in its discussion page, with reason mentioned above. Yeah, I seem to be quite fussy on details, but it's for the benefit of Wikipedia readers and potential editors. Hytar (talk) 22:12, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

FYI: New articles
A bot has been set up, which looks through the new Wikipedia articles and picks up those that are likely related to Malaysia. The search results are available at User:AlexNewArtBot/MalaysiaSearchResult and are normally updated on a daily basis. Colchicum (talk) 01:08, 29 November 2008 (UTC)