Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Merseyside/Archive 1

Time to make a start!
OK, we'd better think about articles to include within the scope of the project, and their priority level. Off the top of my (outsider's) head, I suppose these would be a high or top priority:


 * Boroughs/Districts: Metropolitan Borough of Knowsley, City of Liverpool, Metropolitan Borough of St Helens, Metropolitan Borough of Sefton, Metropolitan Borough of Wirral
 * Places: Liverpool, Birkenhead, St Helens, Crosby, Formby, Wallasey
 * Geographical: River Mersey, Wirral Peninsula
 * Transport: Liverpool John Lennon Airport, Merseyside Passenger Transport Executive, Merseyrail.
 * Sport: Liverpool F.C., Everton F.C., Tranmere Rovers F.C.

Just some initial suggestions to get us going. Hassocks 5489 (tickets please!)  20:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Stuff like parly constituencies, listed buildings, main churches and smaller settlements would probably be the next level down, I imagine ("High"-priority?). What about "iconic" buildings—the Royal Liver Building, the two cathedrals and so on—High or Top?  Important historical features such as the Overhead Railway should probably be High.   Hassocks  5489 (tickets please!)  20:47, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Those suggestions seem good, although St Helens RLFC is missing ;-) I'll start tagging these as top priority. I'm not sure about the "iconic" buildings, I think they should be high but I could be easily persuaded they're top-importance. I'll hold off on tagging them until we get some other opinions. Nev1 (talk) 21:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Other articles to consider

 * Media: City Talk 105.9, Radio City 96.7, Liverpool Echo, Wirral Globe, Liverpool Daily Post
 * Buildings: Liver Buildings, Liverpool Echo Arena, Liverpool One
 * Art: The Super Lamb Banana
 * I'm unsure of how many we should be tagging at an early stage, but these seem to strike me as things important to the local community. Byeitical (talk · contribs) 11:32, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Agree with these. Other lower-importance articles (probably "High"): Some more: Paypwip (talk) 12:53, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Transport: all open and closed stations listed at List of railway stations in Merseyside (and that list itself), and the individual routes (Borderlands Line, Wirral Line, Northern Line (Merseyrail), City Line (Merseyrail)).  Manchester to Southport Line only has a small section within Merseyside, but is worth including for its wider context.  A case could be made for British Rail Class 507 and British Rail Class 508, which are used exclusively by Merseyrail.  M53 motorway, M57 motorway, M58 motorway and M62 motorway.
 * Education: University of Liverpool, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool Hope University.
 * Sport: Anfield, Goodison Park, Prenton Park, Stanley Park Stadium, Grand National, Aintree Racecourse, Haydock Park Racecourse, Royal Liverpool Golf Club, Hoylake, Royal Birkdale Golf Club.  Hassocks  5489 (tickets please!)  11:56, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Media: Radio Merseyside
 * Buildings: Cunard Building, Port of Liverpool Building, St. John's Beacon, St. George's Hall
 * Transport: The River itself and the two tunnels underneath it, Merseytram, the Port of Liverpool, Albert Dock
 * Other: The two cathedrals, Merseybeat

Tagging articles
We have a template for adding article to the project: or  (they produce the same thing). Just add either of these templates to an article's talk page. For example: The parameters of class and importance don't have to be filled in, but it would help the project get an idea of the quality of the articles we're working on. The "class" of articles should be measured against Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment and can be list, stub, start, C, B, GA, A, or FA. The "importance" is either low, mid, high, or top. Nev1 (talk) 12:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

List of railway stations in Merseyside
I'm going to make a start at bringing this list up to the standard of the West Midlands and Greater Manchester equivalents. I'll work on it in one of my user subpages here (ignore the misleading title!). Feel free to drop by and help. Hassocks 5489 (tickets please!)  14:12, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Moved across, although some citations need to be provided (e.g. opening and closing dates). Will continue to work on this.   Hassocks  5489 (tickets please!)  20:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Small jobs
Hey, I joined this project to help with the small, gnome-like tasks (categories, templates, etc). What needs doing? &mdash; Polish Name  19:13, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * At the moment tagging any articles would be helpful. A good place to start would by . Nev1 (talk) 19:16, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Tagging articles
When tagging articles for this WikiProject, should we also be removing banners for the parent projects such as WikiProject UK geography and WikiProject England? I have done in the few articles I've tagged, as such repetition seems silly, but I would like to know if this is correct before I go any further. Small-town hero (talk) 13:29, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * We should be keeping any other projects tags, and placing ours alongside them. The "mother" projects still need to generate national statistics for progress, and the extra support doesn't do any harm either. :) --Jza84 | Talk  13:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Going forwards
From my experience with other projects, to make this project a success, and not dormant, I believe we need to make the following things happen:


 * 1) Set up the project page and develop all the tools, pages and templates that we will need to get things rolling.
 * 2) Make our own "brand", by which I mean identify a logo (or two) that will be the project logo, for use on our templates and user boxes. This may involve choosing some kind of coroporate colours.
 * 3) Ask WP:BOTR to tag all our articles for us. This would mean somebody may need to check that everything in the Category:Merseyside is as it should be prior to the request.
 * 4) Spend some time at Commonscat:Merseyside, bringing it upto scratch to help us with our articles.
 * 5) Ensure all our members have the project page watchlisted, and try to seek our any potential members that might not yet know about the project.
 * 6) Identify what the project wants to (realistically?) achieve in the short, mid and long term.
 * 7) Identify a space where we can pool together and share the resources which we can refer to that can aid our articles.

In addition to the above, there are a couple of things we need to agree on fairly early:

--Jza84 | Talk  17:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Do we use "in Merseyside" or "on Merseyside"? Should we be open to either or perhaps we need a criteria when each may be used?
 * 2) Do we agree to work in partnership with WP:GM and WP:CHES on some issues, like a newsletter and noticeboard (they are both also in North West England)?
 * 3) Does anybody have any reservations, concerns, aims, comments, ideas or anything else they think will be important to the project?


 * With regard to a "logo" for the WikiProject, I feel that Image:EnglandMerseyside.png (currently used in the project banner and user box) is somewhat inadequate. I would like to suggest using either Image:MerseysideNumbered.png (as used at the top of this page, though the numbers are meaningless without context), or perhaps the Merseyside CoA. Small-town hero (talk) 22:38, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, User:pbroks13 has kindly offered to redraw the coa's for us, so that might be an option. :) --Jza84 | Talk  22:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Is a coat of arms going to look rather crowded as a logo? How about just a liver bird? Peter I. Vardy (talk) 08:19, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Isn't the Liver Bird specific to Liverpool, and not Merseyside as a whole? Small-town hero (talk) 11:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What about something like Image:UK Legislatures.png, where we use the town halls of the 5 metropolitan districts? --Jza84 | Talk  19:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * In a project banner, that would look even more crowded. I like the idea of the coat of arms, it's distincitve, covers the whole of Merseyside, I'd like to see what pbroks13 produces. Nev1 (talk) 19:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Think how such an image would look when reduced to 60px! :) It needs to be something that will be easily recognisable even at small sizes. Small-town hero (talk) 22:33, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Okies... prob best to hang back for pbroks13.... :)
 * Any problems, issues or other observations about the other issues? --Jza84 | Talk  22:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The sooner we get a bot to tag all our articles, the better. Has a request been made yet? I don't know how familiar members are with articles covered by the project, but it's likely at some point that someone will insist that places in Merseyside are in Lancashire. This has already happened at St Helens, Merseyside. If anyone sees an article saying somewhere in Merseyside is in Lancashire, it should be changed immediately. Nev1 (talk) 21:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. This is adequately covered in our naming convention WP:PLACE, as well as multiple guidelines, such as WP:UKCITIES. Historic and former can be mentioned, but in context.


 * I will take a look at the bot request and try to make it happen for us. Is there anything I need to be aware of? Is the assessment system set up and functioning for example? --Jza84 | Talk  21:12, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

(<-) I've made a request for a bot to tag our articles. Please ammend the request if there are any issues. --Jza84 | Talk  21:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Merseyside CoA
Hi guys,

The new, redrawn version of the Merseyside County Council coat of arms is to the right here. How would it be as a logo? --Jza84 | Talk  22:09, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Liverpool coat of arms
I've just noticed Liverpool doesn't have an image of the City Council's coat of arms. Can anybody help find a good copy? No need to upload it - I might be able to redraw it so we can avoid fair-use issues. Jza84 | Talk  16:58, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Merseyside article tagging?
Jza84 | Talk  had made a Bot request for tagging articles in Category:Merseyside for this project .. But since running recursively to all sub categories is very dangaerous, I have made a list of entire sub cats at WikiProject Merseyside/Cats. I request the project members to have a serious look on each cats and remove all possibly wrong categories. Once it is throughly checked and all the false positive categories are hopefully removed,, the bot will work on it soon. Thanks --  Tinu  Cherian  - 05:56, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it's ready. With the help of Mr Vardy, I've removed any offending categories from the list. --Jza84 | Talk  12:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ : Tagging completed for over 1400+ articles for the project. Skipped Category:Mersey-built ships because I wasnt very sure as it has ships of different countries. --  Tinu  Cherian  - 17:14, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Lambananas
Hi Everyone,

Just joined this Wikiproject and i'm gonna jump straight in with beefing up the Lambananas article to give more info on the whole go-lambananas craze. Anyway I wanted to get a consensus on what the article should be called. Its currently Super Lamb Banana, which i've got to admit i thought was one word. Should it stay as this or be changed, possibly broader to include the minis? Any views? --Daviessimo (talk) 12:38, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The BBC uses both superlambanana and super lamb banana but one word seems to be much more common. I think that people are more likely to look for superlambanana than lambanana but they can all be covered in the same article, so I'd go for calling the article "Superlambanana". Nev1 (talk) 14:04, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thats what I thought. The other issue is the spelling. Some sources have Superlambanana, some have SuperLambBanana and some SuperLamBanana. Based on the official site for the original model its SuperLambBanana with 2 b's, but the Go SuperLambananas website has just 1 b . I've confused! --Daviessimo (talk) 17:01, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Liverpool article
I've made a go of trying to tidy up the governance section of the Liverpool including merging the council wards etc into it. The intro to the section may prove an issue because of finding sources to verify statements that are generally true but could be contested (such as saying Merseyside and Liverpool are synonymous terms). Anyway I could do with some thoughts on how the article could be moved forward particularly which sections warrant their own article because the Liverpool one is very long and quite frankly looks a bit of a mess at the moment. Cheers --Daviessimo (talk) 13:06, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Assessment of places in Merseyside
I've made a start on assessing articles in the cat Towns and villages in Wirral for this project. Having done most of them, I wanted to get some feedback as to if the priority/importance assessments I've given are appropriate. My additions have been scaled according to demographic, economic and historical importance - as well as what is likely to be of importance to the project as a whole.

Birkenhead, Wallasey and Bebington were already assessed as Top priority and I've put West Kirby, Hoylake, Heswall and New Brighton (the latter more for historical importance) as High. Perhaps other large settlements such as Moreton and Bromborough should also be High rather than Mid. Small villages and hamlets might be assessed as Low - but my impression is that places should have a higher priority than this within the project. What does anyone else think?

By the way, shouldn't Southport also be rated as a Top priority article? Snowy 1973 (talk) 14:38, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Image needs replacement
Hello all...

An image used in the Merseyrail Electrics article, specifically Image:507026 Centralb.jpg, has a little bit of a licensing issue. The image was uploaded back when the rules around image uploading were less restrictive. It is presumed that the uploader was willing to license the picture under the GFDL license but was not clear in that regard. As such, the image, while not at risk of deletion, is likely not clearly licensed to allow for free use in any future use of this article. If anyone has an image that can replace this, or can go take one and upload it, it would be best.
 * And also Image:BirkenheadNorth.jpg in Birkenhead North railway station

You have your mission, take your camera and start clicking.--Jordan 1972 (talk) 00:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Merseyside composition
Hi team,

Does anybody have access to a map that would be simillar to this one (which is for Greater Manchester), specifically a map that shows the former districts of the region that went on to comprise Merseyside in 1974? I'm keen to draw us a map for the Merseyside article. --Jza84 | Talk  13:35, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Rainhill Image Swapped
It would appear that someone has changed the image at the top of Rainhill from a picture of the village centre to a picture of a single unidentified house, not by changing the Rainhill article, but by changing the image on commons. Is there anyway to revert the image on commons or should we find another to replace it? Paypwip (talk) 10:30, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It can be reverted at commons (it's a little difficult to spot, but there is a button there!). I'll be happy to do it, although the image looks like it will be deleted anyway.


 * The individual is a troll I've had the pleasure of reverting many times before on Rainhill (see edit history), and I suspect this to be the ip address of User:Dmcm2008. --<span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;border:2px solid #A9A9A9;padding:1px;">Jza84 | Talk  10:43, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * User:Daviessimo fixed this. Incidently, our category at Wikicommons could do with a little TLC in terms of organisation, additions and creating new categories. --<span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;border:2px solid #A9A9A9;padding:1px;">Jza84 | Talk  10:57, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

New stuff
Do we have any way of notifying participants of what is going on day-to-day? Like new articles, expanded articles, suggestions for DYK (even successes at DYK - and above)? For example I have today made a double-nom for DYK for St George's Church, Everton and St Michael's Church, Aigburth, which are both much-expanded articles. Peter I. Vardy (talk) 20:21, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * We could do with a comprehensive front-page setup similar to WP:GM for recording stats, successes, new articles etc. This talk page is probably the best place for day-to-day announcements and ongoing "things", as long as everybody keeps it on their watchlist.  Having said that, a dedicated area on the main project page for us to add things we are working on could be useful in making everybody aware of what's being done.  Perhaps a template like , but including more things than just GA/FA candidates.   Hassocks  5489 (tickets please!)  21:03, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Would there be any objection to an integrated "North West England" newsletter or noticeboard, just out of interest? I agree we need to spend a little TLC on the project page/space too. --<span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;border:2px solid #A9A9A9;padding:1px;">Jza84 | Talk  21:07, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Also I think it would be useful if on the project page next to where people in the group are listed, each user could list their particular interests or expertise (such as history, transport or sports) so as to aid users in knowing who they can work with --Daviessimo (talk) 16:05, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * That's a good idea and it looks like Peter I. Vardy agrees. Did you have a format in mind? I just think it would be nice to smarten up our front page. Nev1 (talk) 17:34, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

DYKs
Just to let participants know that there are three suggestions waiting for approval for DYK, all about Grade I listed Liverpool churches; St George's Church, Everton and St Michael's Church, Aigburth (this is a double-nom); All Saints' Church, Childwall; and Church of Saint John the Baptist, Liverpool. If any or all make it, Merseyside will feature on the main page. Peter I. Vardy (talk) 10:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, the double-nom made it; top spot with picture too. Did you see it? I didn't; it appeared overnight and I slept through it.  The next one has been approved and will appear soon. Peter I. Vardy (talk) 08:12, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

New Article: Maritime Mercantile City
I've created a new article to deal with the UNESCO world heritage site in Liverpool. Anyway I wondered if someone could tag it as part of the project as I'm not sure how to do it. Thanks --Daviessimo (talk) 20:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * For a start I've added a couple of categories, and some project banners to the talk page. Peter I. Vardy (talk) 20:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I have moved MMC to Liverpool MMC as Unesco include Liverpool in the title. I didn't include the hyphen as UNESCO do because I take it there not included in title in wiki. Anyway hope this is ok. --Daviessimo (talk) 18:47, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

AfD:The Dissenters
Please see AfD for The Dissenters. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 04:59, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Update: the discussion closed on the 16th, the result was redirect to The Quarrymen. Nev1 (talk) 21:53, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Merseyside/Assessment
The project's assessment page is now up and running. Regards. Small-town hero (talk) 14:19, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Rainhill confusion
I've recently discovered on the www.visitliverpool.com website an address regarding a Premier Inn Hotel in Rainhill The address of the hotel is stated as; Premier Inn Liverpool Rainhill 804 Warrington Road Rainhill Liverpool Merseyside L35 6PE

http://fr.visitliverpool.com/site/premier-inn-liverpool-rainhill-p44059

Would this regard Rainhill as being a suburb of Liverpool? and it additionally adds confusion as to whether Rainhill is classed as Prescot/St Helens. -worthelse, 18.04pm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Worthelse (talk • contribs) 18:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This is common with hotel companies. Its done to attract those visiting a particular location to stay in their hotel even though it not in that actual location. Its a bit like when Ryanair say they fly to Milan but its actually Bergamo. There target is those travelling to Milan but if they say they fly to Bergamo those people would be unlikelty to travel with them. Here they are targeting visitors to Liverpool even though the hotel lies outside the city boundary. It has no meaning in any other context (i.e. Rainhill is not in Liverpool). Hope this helps --Daviessimo (talk) 19:32, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Merseybeat
There's been an occasional discussion here about whether or not there should be an article on Merseybeat - the musical genre, not the publication - separate from the existing one on Beat music. The Beat music article is little more than a stub really, but I've put off improving it as my view is that Merseybeat deserves a separate article of its own. I can help writing it (I have some references and there are some good sites such as this one), but I'd be more than happy to support anyone else if they want to give it a go. Does the team think it needs a separate article? Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:05, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd support a Merseybeat article and to be honest can't understand why there isn't one already. Then again there was no article for the Maritime Mercantile City world heritage site until I created it. If we can get a straw poll concensus here I'd follow that result. --Daviessimo (talk) 19:36, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Liverpool article
Can we not get the indefinite semi protection on the Liverpool article because I don't know about anyone else but I think is is stupid that with the level of vandalism it receives it isn't already. It is stated here that repeatedly vandalised pages can be semi protected so I think it should be. Any thoughts?? --Daviessimo (talk) 19:40, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I was thinking the same thing just last week. Liverpool is a constant target. Manchester was semi-protected for much the same reason. --<span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;border:2px solid #A9A9A9;padding:1px;">Jza84 | Talk  19:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Couldn't agree more. Looking at the article's edit history, idefinite semi-protection is long overdue. Snowy 1973 (talk) 20:32, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Any objections if I make this so? --<span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;border:2px solid #A9A9A9;padding:1px;">Jza84 | Talk  20:37, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Go ahead punk, make my day protect that page. Nev1 (talk) 20:39, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅ --<span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;border:2px solid #A9A9A9;padding:1px;">Jza84 | Talk  23:45, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Great, Thanks --Daviessimo (talk) 08:22, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

We beat Paul Macartney in an audition to appear on Carol Levis Discoveries Childrens Programme on ATV in the 1950's
As a kid I belonged to a skiffle group (we were called the Broadyway Kids) and we attended an audition with my sister who played the spoons my brother who played the bass & Bob a friend who played the guitar, I played the washboard and at this audition susequently, was Paul Macartney & three other boys and as I recall they all played electric guitars. Of course we never knew this at the time I was only informed of this a few years ago when recieving a phone call from Bob. He said that he was listening to Desert Island Disc's on the radio (1980's)& Paul Macartney was talking on there about how when he came to london as a kid with his skiffle group he was pipped at the post (at an audition) to appear on the Carol Levis discoveries show by a skiffle group who had two girls playing in the group (unusual in them days) & one of them played the spoons. Bob also said that further to that he then went to a Paul Mcartney Concert & upon buying a programme this story was documented in it. He did eventually go to Liverpool visiting the Beatles Museum where he discussed this with the people & staff working their. They was very interested & wanted Bob to send a copy of the Programme and if possible a photo copy of us in our Skiffle Group. This I believe he sent to them. I would now like to contact Paul his agent or anyone connected to Desert island Discs who can confirm this story because it sounds so unbelievable to anyone I mention it to and unfortunately I have lost contact with Bob.

Yours Truly

Mrs jessie Morton —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.31.116.167 (talk) 15:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Rainhill (again)
This article is in a very poor state, and seems to consistently be a target from a certain range of ip addresses. I've even had to source that it is the the St Helens borough. Is anybody out there willing to help bring this article upto standard? --<span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;border:2px solid #A9A9A9;padding:1px;">Jza84 | Talk  23:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Liverpool F.C. at WP:FAC
One of our most important articles, Liverpool F.C., has recently been presented at FAC. Please take a look and see if there are any changes you can make, to help maximise the chance of this article becoming the second WikiProject Merseyside Featured Article (following on from its great rival!). Hassocks 5489 (tickets please!)  23:34, 22 December 2008 (UTC)