Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Michael Jackson/Archive 1

Greetings
Hey guys, just created the project. Welcome to all! I still need to fix a few things, but mostly thing are quasi-functional. If you have any questions, let us know here. Check this talk page frequently for more updates. Thank you.UberCryxic 02:15, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion: Songwriting/production credits section?
There is no mention of songs he has written or produced for other people. Notably "Do the Bartman", "Happy Birthday Lisa", "Muscles" or some of the songs on 3T's first album. - or am I mistaken and it is featured somewhere else. If not, please can someone set this up, I haven't got the sources and honestly I don't know much about it, which is the reason why I think it would be good information to have. Thank you! TwinqleTwinqle (talk) 15:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Song citations
I think that there has to be a big drive to get more citations for songs. It it crucial that we get a lot of Michael's song to featured article status, but to do this citations are needed. I've had a lot of trouble finding citations for things like the Recording of the songs. It is important as a lot of these songs have had a wide influence, and deserve to be covered in more depth. Especially, many songs from Bad and Dangerous need more work. I think this should be a large focus of this project.--Paaerduag 07:32, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Picture
(grumble grumble grumble) I knew it would be another thriller era picture I just knew it. I no you said it wouldn`t be final so lets discuss it. Everyone on the planet has seen that picture now and its a little boring, I wanted to portrayed him as an almost god like figure a megastar which those military jackets of the 90`s do very well. This project will hopefully be revolutionary and I dont want it to lament over the thriller era as does the main article. you all no my stance on michael jacksons career and for that reason hopefully I will make a good contribution to the team. This project cannot go down the same road as the article. Lets have a more upto date picture. Also Uber thankyou for sorting out those issues with another user, hopefully its ended. cheers.Realist2 08:07, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

although at first I was looking for a later-era picture, I'm quite happy with UberCryxic's choice of the "Billie Jean" single cover. It's iconic, and anyone who saw that would instantly know who it was. I think it's a good choice.--Paaerduag 11:50, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I chose it because it's iconic, although the problem is that it's a free image and we can't use it. I've replaced that with the photo of MJ visiting the White House in 1984. I don't much like that one because there are other people in it, but unless anyone can find another legitimate image, it will have to stay for now.UberCryxic 17:45, 14 June 2007 (UTC) 19:31, 14 June 2007 (UTC)Realist2

Its poo lol, cant we have a change? besides its not that image thats iconic, almost every picture he`s in is iconic to some degree, besides it makes michael Jackson a laughable figure. His critics joke that he hasnt done anything worth mentioning in 20 years so its important people who like him show the truth, if we his supporters are seen to over play thriller it will only give them more ammunition. Realist2 19:38, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Can't we just use a fair-use rationale? After all, what is a better symbol of the function of this wikiproject? Perhaps a fair-use rationale similar to that which I provided for the Dirty Diana shoes would suffice for the "Billie Jean" cover? I hope it does, because I really want that picture to stay.--Paaerduag 11:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

pov
hi im a little confused on pov editing for the project, i never done a project before so obviously this is a bit nerve racking but are we allowed to be pov? this below to me at least is pov and it wouldnt have beem allowed in the MJ article. '''Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, is often regarded as the greatest and most influential solo artist of all time. The "world's most famous living human being," Michael has had an enormous impact on global culture. Having sold hundreds of millions of albums and singles worldwide, making the greatest selling album of all time, Thriller, ratcheting up more awards than any other musician in history, and being one of the highest paid entertainers of all time, Michael Jackson has revolutionized the music industry and has strongly influenced pop artists and groups throughout the world.''' A little confused on this. let me no policy thanx.Realist2 08:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

wikiprojects are generally designed for people enthusiastic about a subject. Therefore a little POV is no problem at all. This is a wikiproject based around people interested and enthusiastic about Michael Jackson and his music, and most of the people who join up are probably going to view him in a positive light. It is very common for wikiprojects to show POV.--Paaerduag 11:52, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Paaerduag is right. We could give a rat's ass about POV in wikiprojects, unless it's something vastly extreme (like, for example, racism or hate speech would never be allowed). Mainspace articles are different.UberCryxic 17:37, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

cool thats what I wanted to here I was just confused is all. excellent.Realist2 19:31, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

List of Michael Jackson awards
Some comments on the talk page of this article would be appreciated. There are concerns over the reliability of the sources and the article just survived an attempt to delete it (well, it was deleted, but then it was re-created again).UberCryxic 21:13, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Tags
I've gone around adding a bunch of tags to the talk pages of various related articles. Paaerduag has done the same. Just remember to keep adding these whenever you get the chance. Thanks!UberCryxic 21:53, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Singles
Hi I have made improvements to some of the his singles to give them more meat so to speak. Remember the time I discussed the video and the Soul train awards and the performance in a wheel chair. In the closet I discussed the sexual nature of the lyrics.Realist2 13:14, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

The Non-notable songs issue
I've started fighting back, by adding references to, and expanding, the following disputed and AFD's articles: "Just Good Friends", "Speed Demon", "The Lady In My Life" and "Baby Be Mine". Please add keep votes to these, as I am in the process of expanding and saving them. Look at the "Just Good Friends" article to see what I mean. --Paaerduag 03:58, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I always liked speed demon.--Manboobies 01:31, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I like what you did with the Just Good Friends page, but I also think you should somehow cross-reference it with the duet "Get It" from Wonder's Characters album. MaJic 07:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Thriller....
Hopefully some people can take a look at a controversy brewing over at the Thriller article. I want the inclusion of a statement in the lead saying something about Thriller's and Michael Jackson's musical stature (check the recent history to see what I'm referring to), but there is someone who objects to this on grounds that the statement is POV, and I suppose unnecessarily POV, among other reasons. Any second opinions would be appreciated.UberCryxic 03:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

More deletion obsessiveness
Take a look/Vote--Manboobies 23:56, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Singles template
I made a template with all of MJ's singles, and took the #1 singles out of the main template.

Superior1 05:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I fucking love it. Have you put it in the article yet? It's great.--Manboobies 14:12, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey guys, I recently joined the Project. I love the template, too (I'd noticed it before I joined), although I don't really like the idea of there not being a link to the Michael Jackson singles discography page somewhere within the Michael Jackson template itself.. it looks rather bare without a singles section, or a link to the page, and I don't know where to put it. I don't want to make another section dedicated to "Other" in the template, as that would look rather ugly and I wouldn't know what else to put in the section to make it look not-stupid with just a link to the singles page there. Any ideas? Thanks. ;) User:Ss112 08:35, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I like it too. I just have a LITTLE quarrel with it. Like, if you're going to mention promos (ie. Girlfriend), you should at least mention all of them. (However, I'm not sure if Girlfriend is just a promo or a limited release single, so please correct me if I'm wrong.)

All of these can be found on mjcollectors.com; the site is in French though, so just look around until you find the search box. :) Bad-Speed Demon History-This time around, smile BOTDF-is it scary MaJic 08:01, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

a new page
Hey, I was thinking about starting a new page containing MJ's leaked songs. Let me know what you think:

Leaked songs In recent years, some unreleased Jackson songs and demos have been leaked online. These songs include :


 * Startin' Somethin' (the 1979 demo of "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' " from Thriller)
 * Carousel (the full version, unlike the cut version included on the Thriller: Special Edition; replaced by Human Nature on Thriller)
 * Trouble (intended for Thriller; has since been covered by Scott Baio and Musical Youth)
 * Nite Line (intended for Thriller; has since been covered by Ellen Foley, Randy Crawford, and the Pointer Sisters)
 * Hot Street (intended for Thriller)
 * Billie Jean (1981 studio demo; not to be confused with the home demo featured on Thriller: Special Edition)
 * The Girl Is Mine (solo demo)
 * State of Shock (demo version featuring Freddie Mercury; the song appears on the Jacksons' Victory album with Mick Jagger in Mercury's place)
 * There Must Be More To Life Than This (meant for Victory album; features Michael on vocals and Freddie Mercury on piano; Mercury did a different version for his solo album)
 * Love Never Felt So Good (written by Jackson and Paul Anka; later sung by Johnny Mathis)
 * For All Time (intended for Dangerous)
 * If You Don't Love Me (intended for Dangerous)
 * Gone Too Soon (demo)
 * In The Closet (demo)
 * Give In To Me (demo)
 * Who Is It (demo)
 * Jam (demo)
 * Keep The Faith (demo)
 * Remember The Time (demo)
 * Ghosts (early version)
 * What About Us (demo of Earth Song; originally intended for Dangerous)
 * Serious Effect (intended for Dangerous; contains verse by LL Cool J)
 * Xscape (or Escape; intended for Invincible)
 * What More Can I Give? (full version)
 * Todo Para Ti (Spanish version of "What More Can I Give?")

In 2001, the France department of Epic Records issued a 2 disc test-pressing of "Dangerous: Special Edition", in which the second disc contained some of the tracks intended for Dangerous previously mentioned above. It also included 2 previously unreleased songs: "She Got It" and "Work That Body" (not to be confused with the Diana Ross song of the same name), in which the latter song contains Michael re-singing the refrain of the Jackson 5 hit, "ABC":

"Sit down, girl! I think I love you! No, get up, girl! Show me what you can do!"

Some French fans have them in their possession; one of them going so far to release snippets of "She Got It" and "Work That Body" (42 seconds and 54 seconds, respectively). However, the fan wants a payment of 250 euros for the full songs.

There are also songs that are in rare availability:

MaJic 23:09, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In 1982, Jackson re-recorded "You Can't Win (Part 2)" and released it as "Can't Get Outta The Rain". It was the b-side to the lead single "The Girl Is Mine".
 * In 2001, he released the song "Mind Is The Magic" for the Siegfried & Roy compilation, "The Secret Gallery". Siegfried & Roy also used this song as their theme song for their "Beyond Belief" show in Las Vegas.
 * Also in 2001, the single for Jackson's song "Cry" contained the unreleased track "Shout". It was considered for the Invincible album, but was replaced by "You Are My Life". This song was also sung by the Backstreet Boys in some of their concerts during their 2002 tour. This could be due to Nick Carter covering this song for his 2002 solo release, "Now Or Never", although it didn't make the album.

Assessment department
Just letting everyone know the assessment department is now up and running. However, it might benefit from having someone go through and place importance assessments on at least the top and high importance articles, and maybe isomg tje assessment criteria of WikiProject Songs and WikiProject Albums on the relevant articles. John Carter 14:47, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Project scope
Maybe this is a bad question, I don't know. But I think almost all of the articles in the Category:Jackson 5, and maybe most of the articles in the Category:Jackson family, are directly relevant to this project as well. Would the members of this project favor expanding the scope of this project to include those articles as well? John Carter 15:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

FAR notice
The Jackson 5 has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --RelHistBuff 15:04, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Expert review: No Friend of Mine
As part of the Notability wikiproject, I am trying to sort out whether the article No Friend of Mine is factually correct, and whether the topic it is notable enough for an own article. (The article is about a song that was allegedly produced by Michael Jackson together with two other musicians.) I would appreciate an expert opinion. For details, see the article's talk page. If you can spare some time, please add your comments there. Thanks! --B. Wolterding 12:36, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

New User Help
How do i become a member of this project? Sai 2020 15:16, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * By adding your signature to the "Participants" section of the main project page, basically. John Carter 15:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh! It's as simple as that? I thought some admins will probably have to approve or something. Anyway thanks a lot. Sai 2020 15:31, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion: Create a portal
With (151) articles in this WikiProject, you may wish to consider creating Portal:Michael Jackson, to showcase some of the WikiProject's related articles. See Portal. Cirt (talk) 16:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC).
 * The problems there are that the one best article the project at one point had, The Jackson 5, has had the banner removed. I proposed above a question about perhaps altering the project's scope, and possibly title, to include all articles related to the Jackson family, which I think might be useful. If there are any who would support such a measure, or oppose it, I would welcome responses of any kind there at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Michael Jackson. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 17:03, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletion: 2 Bad

 * --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 17:13, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletion: We Are Here to Change the World

 * --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 19:46, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Article for deletion: Baby Be Mine

 * --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 20:41, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

new page
Decade (unreleased album) MaJic (talk) 01:17, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Michael Jackson is just GA?
i think it ought to be FA. after all that is the major article in this project.. Σαι ( Talk ) 07:05, 22 January 2008 (UTC)