Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Archive 18

Help with project notice tagging
We need to get WikiProject Military history added to the talk page of (almost) every article in Category:Soldiers and its many sub-categories (and probably on the category pages themselves). I'll try to do some of this, but I'm stretched somewhat thin at the moment, so I'd really appreciate any help. —Kirill Lok s hin 19:44, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Wow, that is a lot. I'll pitch in. --Loopy e 04:18, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Been hunting for articles (unsurprisingly, mainly China-related) and adding the tags. Will do the soldiers articles after I finish, uh, writing 2 lab reports and studying for 2 tests. :x -- Миборовский U 05:01, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks! (We'll probably want to come up with a more orderly plan for the various military people categories at some point; they're an awful mess right now.) —Kirill Lok s hin 05:22, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


 * On me way CapN :>--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 18:32, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Category:Soldiers is finished and currently working on Soldiers by nationality. I notice some tags from Snipers has been removed ? MadMax 13:07, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I think there may have been a few non-military snipers mixed in there. —Kirill Lok s hin 16:34, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Artillery
I have done survey of the articles relating to Artillery and they are a mess. We have multiple articles dealing with the same subject under "Naval Gunfire" "Naval Artillery" "Naval Gunfire Support" etc. Additionally, Field Artillery (capitalized) is an article about US Army Field Artillery whereas field artillery (not capitalized) is an article on the subject in general etc etc. There seem to be a bunch of merges and moves that would be appropriate. I have tagged a few, but not all. Input on the discussion boards on those articles would certainly be helpful.--Counsel 04:44, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Campaignbox review results
The campaignbox review is basically complete. Using the numbers from the end of January, we have:


 * 331 historical and 8 fictional campaignboxes present on the main list
 * 60 redirects to campaignboxes
 * 21 campaignboxes that need attention

This last category includes a number of empty and redundant campaignboxes that I'll be placing on WP:TFD shortly, as well as some that don't use the standard Campaign formatting and need to be fixed. Aside from that, the major issues are:


 * The Seven Year War campaignboxes - we have 9 separate (but often overlapping) campaignboxes for this war. They  should probably be merged (possibly to a single box); do we have anyone with enough knowledge in this area to be able to get the chronology right?
 * Template:Campaignbox Muslim Conquest - this has been partially split into a number of different campaignboxes, but the set still has some overlaps that need to be removed.
 * Template:Campaignbox Conquest of Canaan - where do we put this?

Any help with the three points above would be appreciated, as would any general feedback on this. —Kirill Lok s hin 00:22, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Naming issue at Flag of Western Sahara
Hey guys! I'm trying to mediate a discussion on Flag of Western Sahara, with mixed success. I already posted this at WP:RFC/P, but was hoping I might get some additional interested people here. There has been an ongoing argument at Flag of Western Sahara about the name of the flag.

Western Sahara is a region claimed by Morocco and a government in exile of indigenous people, the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic. Both parties control a portion of the territory and both claim the whole of it. The flag is the flag flown by SADR, but it is generally known as the "Flag of Western Sahara", mainly because Morocco does not recognise the term Western Sahara (calling it Moroccan Sahara), so there is no other flag which also might bear the name. There have been extensive discussions about comparisons with Flag of Tibet, and Flag of Taiwan, but up until now no conclusion.

To break the stalemate, a vote has been proposed here, and I would very much appreciate any and every input. The more the merrier!

Thanks and greets, The Minist   e   r of War   (Peace) 09:07, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Amazing and bemusing how micronations such as Sealand and small articles such as this one can cause such big arguments.--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 02:33, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

US Department of Defense military Definitions
The following definitions come from Joint Publication 1-02, the U.S. Department of Defense Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms. Their use could make a strong move towards article standardization.


 * active duty — Full-time duty in the active military service of the United States. This includes members of the Reserve Components serving on active duty or full-time training duty, but does not include full-time National Guard duty. Also called AD. See also active duty for training; inactive duty training.


 * active duty for special work — A tour of active duty for reserve personnel authorized from military and reserve personnel appropriations for work on active or reserve component programs. This includes annual screening, training camp operations, training ship operations, and unit conversion to new weapon systems when such duties are essential. Active duty for special work may also be authorized to support study groups, training sites and exercises, short-term projects, and doing administrative or support functions. By policy, active duty for special work tours are normally limited to 179 days or less in one fiscal year. Tours exceeding 180 days are accountable against active duty end strength.


 * active duty for training — A tour of active duty which is used for training members of the Reserve Components to provide trained units and qualified persons to fill the needs of the Armed Forces in time of war or national emergency and such other times as the national security requires. The member is under orders that provide for return to non-active status when the period of active duty for training is completed. This includes annual training, special tours of active duty for training, school tours, and the initial duty for training performed by nonprior service enlistees. Also called ADT.


 * Active Guard and Reserve — National Guard and Reserve members who are on voluntary active duty providing full-time support to National Guard, Reserve, and Active Component organizations for the purpose of organizing, administering, recruiting, instructing, or training the Reserve Components. Also called AGR. (JP 1-03.17)


 * amphibious construction battalion — A permanently commissioned naval unit, subordinate to the Commander, Naval Beach Group, designed to provide an administrative unit from which personnel and equipment are formed in tactical elements and made available to appropriate commanders to operate pontoon causeways, transfer barges, warping tugs, and assault bulk fuel systems, and to meet salvage requirements of the naval beach party. Also called PHIBCB. (JP 3-02)


 * Armed Forces of the United States — A term used to denote collectively all components of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard. See also United States Armed Forces.


 * Army corps — A tactical unit larger than a division and smaller than a field army. A corps usually consists of two or more divisions together with auxiliary arms and services. See also field army.


 * battalion -- Unit composed of a headquarters and two or more companies or batteries. It may be part of a regiment and be charged with only tactical functions, or it may be a separate unit and be charged with both administrative and tactical functions.


 * battalion landing team — In an amphibious operation, an infantry battalion normally reinforced by necessary combat and service elements; the basic unit for planning an assault landing. Also called BLT.


 * battery — (*)


 * 1. Tactical and administrative artillery unit or subunit corresponding to a company or similar unit in other branches of the Army.


 * 2. All guns, torpedo tubes, searchlights, or missile launchers of the same size or caliber or used for the same purpose, either installed in one ship or otherwise operating as an entity.


 * battle honor --


 * 1. Award to a unit or individual denoting participation in a campaign;
 * 2. Streamer or band attached to the staff of the flag, color, standard or guidon of a unit denoting battle participation or award of unit decoration.


 * brigade — A unit usually smaller than a division to which are attached groups and/or battalions and smaller units tailored to meet anticipated requirements. Also called BDE.


 * brigade landing team -- An assault landing team. It is a balanced task organization composed of a brigade headquarters, two or more battalion level combat units, and the reinforcing combat and service elements required for combat and interim logistical support during the period it conducts independent tactical operations.


 * colored beach — That portion of usable coastline sufficient for the assault landing of a regimental landing team or similar sized unit (Red Beach; Green Beach, Gold Beach; etc.,). In the event that the landing force consists of a single battalion landing team, a colored beach will be used and no further subdivision of the beach is required. See also numbered beach. (JP 3-02)


 * company -- Basic administrative and tactical unit in most arms and services of the Army. A company is on a command level below a battalion and above a platoon and is equivalent to a battery of artillery or cavalry troop. Organic companies depend on the Battalion or Regiment for administrative support, while Seperate companies are self-supporting.


 * corps support command — Provides corps logistic support and command and control of water supply battalions. (JP 4-01.6)


 * corps troops — (*) Troops assigned or attached to a corps, but not a part of one of the divisions that make up the corps.


 * echelon — (*)


 * 1. A subdivision of a headquarters, i.e., forward echelon, rear echelon.
 * 2. Separate level of command. As compared to a regiment, a division is a higher echelon, a battalion is a lower echelon.
 * 3. A fraction of a command in the direction of depth to which a principal combat mission is assigned; i.e., attack echelon, support echelon, reserve echelon.
 * 4. A formation in which its subdivisions are placed one behind another, with a lateral and even spacing to the same side.


 * federal service — A term applied to National Guard members and units when called to active duty to serve the Federal Government under Article I, Section 8 and Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution and the US Code, title 10 (Department of Defense), sections 12401 to 12408. See also active duty; Reserve Components. (JP 4-05)


 * field army — Administrative and tactical organization composed of a headquarters, certain organic Army troops, service support troops, a variable number of corps, and a variable number of divisions. See also Army corps.


 * flag officer — A term applied to an officer holding the rank of general, lieutenant general, major general, or brigadier general in the US Army, Air Force or Marine Corps or admiral, vice admiral, or rear admiral in the US Navy or Coast Guard.


 * group —


 * 1. A flexible administrative and tactical unit composed of either two or more battalions or two or more squadrons. The term also applies to combat support and combat service support units.
 * 2. A number of ships and/or aircraft, normally a subdivision of a force,assigned for a specific purpose. Also called GP.


 * Individual Ready Reserve — A manpower pool consisting of individuals who have had some training, who have served previously in the Active Component or in the Selected Reserve, and have some period of their military service obligation remaining. Members may voluntarily participate in training for retirement points and promotion with or without pay. Also called IRR. See also Selected Reserve. (JP 4-05)


 * inactive duty training — Authorized training performed by a member of a Reserve Component not on active duty or active duty for training and consisting of regularly scheduled unit training assemblies, additional training assemblies, periods of appropriate duty or equivalent training, and any special additional duties authorized for Reserve Component personnel by the Secretary concerned, and performed by them in connection with the prescribed activities of the organization in which they are assigned with or without pay. Does not include work or study associated with correspondence courses. Also called IDT. See also active duty for training.


 * Inactive National Guard — Army National Guard personnel in an inactive status not in the Selected Reserve who are attached to a specific National Guard unit but do not participate in training activities. Upon mobilization, they will mobilize with their units. In order for these personnel to remain members of the Inactive National Guard, they must muster once a year with their assigned unit. Like the Individual Ready Reserve, all members of the Inactive National Guard have legal, contractual obligations. Members of the Inactive National Guard may not train for retirement credit or pay and are not eligible for promotion. Also called ING. See also Individual Ready Reserve; Selected Reserve. (JP 4-05)


 * inactive status — Status of reserve members on an inactive status list of a Reserve Component or assigned to the Inactive Army National Guard. Those in an inactive status may not train for points or pay, and may not be considered for promotion.


 * numbered beach — In amphibious operations, a subdivision of a colored beach, designated for the assault landing of a battalion landing team or similarly sized unit, when landed as part of a larger force. (JP 3-02)


 * Presidential Callup — Procedures by which the President brings all or part of the Army National Guard or Air National Guard to active Federal service under section 12406 and Chapter 15 of title 10 (DOD), US Code. See also active duty; federal service; Presidential Reserve Callup Authority. (JP 4-05)

Ready Reserve), for not more than 270 days to meet the support requirements of any operational mission. Members called under this provision may not be used for disaster relief or to suppress insurrection. This authority has particular utility when used in circumstances in which the escalatory national or international signals of partial or full tailored, limited-scope, deterrent, or operational response, or may be used as a precursor to any subsequent mobilization. Also called PRCA. See also Individual Ready Reserve; mobilization; Presidential Callup; Selected Reserve. (JP 3-57)
 * Presidential Reserve Callup Authority — Provision of a public law (US Code, Title 10 (DOD), section 12304) that provides the President a means to activate, without a declaration of national emergency, not more than 200,000 members of the Selected Reserve and the Individual Ready Reserve (of whom not more than 30,000 may be members of the Individual


 * Ready Reserve — The Selected Reserve, Individual Ready Reserve, and Inactive National Guard liable for active duty as prescribed by law (US Code, title 10 (DOD), sections 10142, 12301, and 12302). See also active duty; Inactive National Guard; Individual Ready Reserve; Selected Reserve. (JP 4-05)


 * reserve component category — The category that identifies an individual’s status in a reserve component. The three reserve component categories are Ready Reserve, Standby Reserve, and Retired Reserve. Each reservist is identified by a specific reserve component category designation.


 * Reserve Components — Reserve Components of the Armed Forces of the United States are:


 * a. the Army National Guard of the United States;
 * b. the Army Reserve;
 * c. the Naval Reserve;
 * d. the Marine Corps Reserve;
 * e. the Air National Guard of the United States;
 * f. the Air Force Reserve; and
 * g. the Coast Guard Reserve.
 * Also called RC. See also component; reserve. (JP 4-05.1)


 * Selected Reserve — Those units and individuals within the Ready Reserve designated by their respective Services and approved by the Joint Chiefs of Staff as so essential to initial wartime missions that they have priority over all other Reserves. All Selected Reservists are in an active status. The Selected Reserve also includes persons performing initial active duty for training. See also Ready Reserve.


 * Selected Reserve strength — The total number of guardsmen and reservists in the Selected Reserve who are subject to the 200K Presidential recall or mobilization under declaration of war or national emergency.


 * special forces — US Army forces organized, trained, and equipped to conduct special operations with an emphasis on unconventional warfare capabilities. Also called SF. (JP 3-05)


 * special forces group — A combat arms organization capable of planning, conducting, and supporting special operations activities in all operational environments in peace, conflict, and war. It consists of a group headquarters and headquarters company, a support company, and special forces battalions. The group can operate as a single unit, but normally the battalions plan and conduct operations from widely separated locations. The group provides general operational direction and synchronizes the activities of subordinate battalions. Although principally structured for unconventional warfare, special forces group units are capable of task-organizing to meet specific requirements. Also called SFG. (JP 3-05)


 * table of distribution and allowance  A table which prescribes the organizational structure, personnel, and equipment authorizations, and requirements of a military unit to perform a specific mission for which there is no appropriate table of organization and equipment.


 * table of organization/table of distribution structure strength  The full table of organization and equipment strength (or type B or Cadre strength, when appropriate) for units organized under F or earlier series tables of organization and equipment; level 1 strength (or type B or Cadre strength when appropriate) for units organized under G or later series table of organization and equipment; and the authorized strength of units organized under tables of distribution and allowances.


 * unit —


 * 1. Any military element whose structure is prescribed by competent authority, such as a table of organization and equipment; specifically, part of an organization.
 * 2. An organization title of a subdivision of a group in a task force.
 * 3. A standard or basic quantity into which an item of supply is divided, issued, or used. In this meaning, also called unit of issue.
 * 4. With regard to Reserve Components of the Armed Forces, denotes a Selected Reserve unit organized, equipped, and trained for mobilization to serve on active duty as a unit or to augment or be augmented by another unit. Headquarters and support functions without wartime missions are not considered units.


 * United States Armed Forces — Used to denote collectively only the regular components of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard. See also Armed Forces of the United States.


 * US forces — All Armed Forces (including the Coast Guard) of the United States, any person in the Armed Forces of the United States, and all equipment of any description that either belongs to the US Armed Forces or is being used (including Type I and II Military Sealift Command vessels), escorted, or conveyed by the US Armed Forces.


 * United States Naval Ship — A public vessel of the United States that is in the custody of the Navy and is:


 * a. Operated by the Military Sealift Command and manned by a civil service crew; or
 * b. Operated by a commercial company under contract to the Military Sealift Command and manned by a merchant marine crew. Also called USNS. See also Military Sealift Command. (JP 3-02.2)

Abbreviations


 * ANG Air National Guard
 * ARNG Army National Guard
 * GUARD US National Guard and Air Guard
 * ING Inactive National Guard
 * MTOE modified table of organization and equipment
 * NG National Guard
 * NGB National Guard Bureau
 * NYARNG New York Army National Guard
 * PRANG Puerto Rican Air National Guard
 * TO&E table of organization and equipment

SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) 22:36, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Some of these are very Ameri-centric, particularly stuff like "battle honour" which is similar in concept in the Commonwealth forces but applied differently. Also stuff like brigade and regiment will never be standardized between the two systems so there is little need for that. "Active duty" is not a term used in Canada either. We may be better just to stroke out terms that are not "universal" and go from there. Michael Dorosh 20:39, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Aerial bombing
This subject is a mess at the moment. There has been a brief discussion about the problem under Talk:Strategic bombing during World War II and in that conversation (last comment 23 August 2005) the following overlapping articles were identified in what is probably not a full list:


 * Aerial bombing during World War II
 * Aerial bombing of cities
 * Aerial warfare
 * Area bombardment (which probably should be renamed area bombardment (air) to distinguish it from area bombardment (artillery) which the Russians still practice as seen in the First Chechen War).
 * Carpet bombing (has a merge into area bombardment template)
 * Close Air Support
 * Strategic bombing during World War II
 * Strategic bombing
 * Tactical bombing
 * Terror bombing
 * Template:WWII city bombing

See also military aviation which has a template for merging it into Aerial warfare which has a history section which pulls in some of the above articles.

The whole area needs sorting out. I hope someone who reads this is willing to take on such a large project. --Philip Baird Shearer 13:28, 21 February 2006 (UTC)


 * We do have a military aviation task force, but I don't think it's particularly large or active. If it were, this type of thing would be perfect for it to work on. —Kirill Lok s hin 14:24, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Infobox From US Military Academy page
SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) 20:20, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Template/Box for related wars?
Is there an infobox to list a series of related wars? For example, 1st through 4th Macedonian wars? One can adapt the Campaignbox, but this is really supposed to be used for battles of a specific war. In some cases, all battles of all related wars are listed like this, but would it not be better to restrict the battles to a single war, and have an additional infobox linking the related wars? - Vedexent 21:46, 21 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, the campaignbox format works just fine for this; see, for example, Campaignbox Italian Wars. —Kirill Lok s hin 22:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I know - I've adpated it to the Macedonian Wars myself. I guess it's possible to use two campaign boxes - one for the war's battles, and one for the related wars. I guess in the abscence of other options I'll just do that :) - Vedexent 22:29, 21 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Given that we can now use multiple campaignboxes per article, I see no reason not to :-) They have the advantage of being easily compatible with our other infoboxes in layout. —Kirill Lok s hin 22:31, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Battlebox Icons?
Just an idea that I think would be helpful: How about an icon as part of the Battlebox (I know it has been replaced - can't place the name of the replacement at the moment) indicating the type of battle - land, naval, air, etc. Say... an anchor, a plane silloutte, crossed swords, or whatever would convey the idea quickly? - Vedexent 00:25, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, we can't do standard icons (based on some unrelated parameter, such as |type=naval) until we get conditional expressions in MediaWiki. Having an icon slot without forcing it to be one of a pre-selected set of icons wouldn't be very helpful, in my opinion; experience shows that utterly inappropriate images would be added there.  So my suggestion would be waiting until we can do this properly.  —Kirill Lok s hin 01:38, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Military Aircraft Infobox
I've created a fully-functioning infobox for Military aircraft.

Blank fields do not appear. It is highly flexible. Please leave suggestions on the template's TALK PAGE. -- Killioughtta


 * Err, that's really an issue for WikiProject Aircraft to deal with; I think they are also developing aircraft infoboxes, so I don't think trying to undercut that is appropriate. —Kirill Lok s hin 12:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, thanks, I had no idea such a project existed. Will go there too. -- Killioughtta 18:05, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * For my money this is just what the air project needs. I think this looks freakin’ sweet. TomStar81 09:09, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks a billion. I think so too. -- Killioughtta 10:09, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Southern Historical Society
I'm not sure if veterans' organizations, such as the Southern Historical Society should be part of our project or not. Either way, if anyone would like to help edit that article, it would be appreciated. --Habap 15:32, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Why not, I'll copyedit it a bit. -- Миборовский U 03:24, 25 February 2006 (UTC)