Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Contest/Archive 1

German writing contests
(The German wiki has a long tradition of writing contests. While our systems are generally similar, they have a jury that creates a ranking of the winners. The clue is that other registered users do promise prizes for the participants. The first placed is the first to choose from these donations (can be anything, material or else, like a DVD or coedit help in the next article), the second next and so on. This way editors do have some non-virtual feedback. Some prizes are offered uder conditio that an article has to be written about a certain topic to get the prize. Naturally we are spread appart all around the globe, making these donations a bit more expensive to deliver, but on the other hand we reach a lot more wealthy donators than a bunch of 100 million German speaking people from Central Europe. Wandalstouring 20:13, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * So basically it's something closer to, say, Danny's contest than to a rolling point model, yes? Kirill Lokshin 21:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Prizes/Awards?
I was wondering if we would come up with some kind of award for the winner each month. Mabey a variation on the WikiChevrons or another sort of award. Any ideas? Cheif Captain 02:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Aside from the central recognition, you mean? We can always hand out WikiChevrons, I suppose.  (I wouldn't be surprised if the longer-term winners would receive the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves, for that matter.) Kirill Lokshin 04:33, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Recognition
You know, it would have been nice if you had credited us... Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 02:39, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I was assuming nobody really cared about such things (seeing as our developments have been silently "borrowed" by, well, just about everybody); but, if you insist... ;-) Kirill Lokshin 02:55, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Generally not when lesser projects take stuff. WP:BAY has directly copied most of our pages (their founder is a member), but it's nice when a bigger project pilfers ideas from smaller ones to credit them, I reckon. :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 03:10, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if I qualify for the contests, but...
As some of you know, I've taken on a task, which has been defining itself as I move along, of writing or improving a number of articles on intelligence and related areas, which have military components but are not strictly military. I would like to share the big picture of what I'm working on, as well as where I'm struggling with structure.

In the list below, !! indicates in-process but not published (not to say that any published article can't be improved), and ++ means that I am trying to reconcile ideas spread across several existing articles or drafts that I am considering. Indentation shows hierarchy:

Intelligence Cycle Management--includes tasking
 * Intelligence Collection Management
 * SIGINT
 * Historical and current, likely to need splitting
 * SIGINT by Alliances, Nations and Industries
 * SIGINT Operational Platforms by Nation for current collection systems (organized by ground, sea surface, submarine, aircraft and satellite--may need to split
 * SIGINT in Modern History for World War I to the present (probably needs to split)
 * Techniques ++ including ELINT/COMINT split, EOB, and where this fits vis-a-vis EW
 * MASINT (all of these have analysis as well as collection components)
 * Electro-optical MASINT
 * Radar MASINT
 * Materials MASINT
 * Geophysical MASINT
 * Nuclear MASINT
 * Radiofrequency MASINT
 * HUMINT (challenge of how CI operations, espionage, special recon fit); currently working on analyzing human networks, which might split
 * OSINT (working on existing article)
 * Intelligence Analysis Management
 * Intelligence Analysis
 * Intelligence Dissemination Management (the gaming and net assessment might split)
 * Intelligence cycle security!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hcberkowitz (talk • contribs) 14:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Review
Is there someone with an assigned job of reviewing these? It is already May 2 and they haven't been reviewed yet. -- Ṝέđ ṃάяķvюĨїήīṣŢ  Drop me a line §  13:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks for the poke. Woody (talk) 15:28, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. Ṝέđ ṃάяķvюĨїήīṣŢ  Drop me a line §  16:20, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

What about...?
Points for creating new articles? I tend to create a lot articles on a whim :) In theory, I could post here that I intend to create it, and than go ahead and so so, but usually I think of that only after I do so (in the past two hours I've for example created the Mongol invasion of Poland, and then remembered about this page). So what about a rule change or a different contest for articles improved and reported to MILHIST post facto? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:32, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * We do have the points for creating stubs, though it would be hard to enforce points retro-actively. It would be very hard to keep track on articles for CO-ORDs as you could just go through your contribs and select articles all the way back to 2006. If you forget, I am sure that the tallying coordinator would be amenable to giving you a poke at the end of the month, but that is not sustainable. Easy solution: don't forget! ;) Woody (talk) 22:39, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I have no problems if I can report my articles from the past few days or weeks, but under current rules it is impossible to report anything post facto. Can we agree on the finite amount of time one can report his work after it has been created/improved? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:46, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The past few days (ie 3/4) could be added to next months competition, but anymore than that and it is outside the discretionary period. I understand your problem, having done it many times myself, but this is not an article creation contest; it is an article writing contest, a development contest. Personally, I can't see how it would be feasible, or fair to create a large discretionary period. I have asked for some other coord input as this isn't the most heavily watched page. Woody (talk) 22:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree this may not be fair, although it would be nice to clarify in the rules that editors can report recently improved content here. How about starting a different contest, one rewarding editors for creating new articles? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, we can allow a nomination 24 hours after article creation. That would be trackable. Wandalstouring (talk) 17:28, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * So where should I report by Mongol invasion and similar articles in the future? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:29, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * To be honest, I'm not sure that we've ever had a really consistent approach to this issue; I do recall that people have listed articles after working on them in the past, and that it did not provoke comment at the time. From a motivational perspective, I think there's an argument to be made for either approach, but I think that opening up the listing period (in other words, allowing people to list any work they've done during the contest period at any point in said period) would orient this more towards rewarding article work in and of itself, rather than article work which happens to be planned in advance.  I'm not really convinced that there's a substantial benefit to preventing after-the-fact listings, so long as they're still within the current month. Kirill (prof) 22:46, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I share Kirill's view. The objective afterall is article creation and improvement. Providing the creation and submission are in the same contest month, I have no problem with this. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 07:51, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've done that myself. I don't have a problem with it. The only practical change is that people don't list 3-4 times as many articles that then get inspected and nothing has happened.  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket ) 03:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Should we give up?
Jesus H. Christ, Belhalla. Enough entries???? Jeez. =/ lol!  -talk- the_ed17  -contribs-  21:34, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * My secret plan is working… Mwah-ha-ha-ha! :) — Bellhalla (talk) 23:38, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should run to the hills before we are overrun by the sheer amount of Belhalla's upcoming point total. =)  -talk- the_ed17  -contribs-  00:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ...so I count 17 no, now it's 18 articles in Belhalla's list at the moment.  -talk-  the_ed17  -contribs-  05:40, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The solution is simple. Enter one article, and ninety-nine redirects to it :)) -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 07:37, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * But doesn't that mean creating 99 talk pages with 99 WP:MILHIST templates with 99 _-class assessments too? =D  -talk- the_ed17  -contribs-  07:47, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Bagh! You've found a flaw in my cunning plan. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 07:54, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ; D I try. Technically it's not a flaw, good sir, it's just an annoying problem that someone will have to deal with if they want to beat Bellhalla....though you'd have to be beyond bored to do something like that manually. =)  -talk- the_ed17  -contribs-  07:58, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, now I think about it, you simply redirect all the talk pages as well and hope that the assessing coordinator doesn't notice. You never know, it might work. -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 08:02, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Mmm that would be an idea...ecspecially if you were assessing your own! =D  -talk- the_ed17  -contribs-  20:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol! -- R OGER D AVIES  talk 20:40, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Scoring error?
Hi, just wondering - I submitted two articles, one of which went from start to B, and another from none to B, but in the table I only have one article for this month, and the points for one. Possibly this is because I've changed my signature - one of my entrants is signed as "Borg_Sphere," another as "Joe." Thanks - Joe  ( Talk ) 14:31, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Apologies, the new sig confused me. Should be amended now. Regards. Woody (talk) 16:28, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Joe  ( Talk ) 20:13, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Nevada
Hi guys! Nevada, my entry, is now at A-class...will my score reflect that, or do i have to re-enter it for October? And do I get my own spot in the sweeeet table? =) &mdash; the _ ed  17  &mdash; 21:55, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a bit outside the discretionary period really for inclusion. All the points have been tallied up now. What you can do is relist it with the assessment as it was at the beginning of the month and it will be included for the October tallying. Then you get a place in the table. ;) Woody (talk) 13:52, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright! Thanks. (and wow, my question sounds like I am in 5th grade...) &mdash; the _ ed  17  &mdash; 17:15, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Now I'm sad--I didn't get any mention in the newsletter for my September entry of the Nevada, start => GA.... =( lol! (Boy if I didn't sound like a 5th grader then, I do now!!!) &mdash; the _ ed  17  &mdash; 00:15, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It'll be in the October edition for the A-Class, and also FA if it gets there in time: WikiProject Military history/Outreach/Newsletter October 2008. -MBK004 00:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol it's no problem regardless...I don't care if I get recognized...only 15 seconds of "fame"! (I'd rather work anonymously as to avoid Wikidrama...) &mdash; the _ ed  17  &mdash; 01:14, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Good God...
Did I count Bellhalla's articles right? 143? (as in one hundred and forty-three points...) — Ed   17  (Talk /  Contribs)  03:09, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Totals (not including me-still one more pending ... and does anyone feel like double-checking?)
 * Bellhalla @ 143 - Confirmed by Cam
 * JonCatalan @ 32 - 42, corrected by Cam
 * Georgejdorner @ 26 - 27, corrected by Cam
 * Ian Rose @ 17 - Confirmed by Cam
 * Abraham, B.S. @ 12 - Confirmed by Cam
 * Skinny87 @ 5 - Confirmed by Cam
 * ERcheck @ 1 - Confirmed by Cam
 * Rosiestep @ 1 - Confirmed by Cam
 * — Ed   17  (Talk /  Contribs)  03:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Checked. Cam (Chat) 05:25, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks :) Catalan's was such a dumb error.... — Ed   17  (Talk /  Contribs)  05:29, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Do I understand this correctly that after creating or editing 13 articles last month, I received a total of 1 point? --Rosiestep (talk) 00:38, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I am afraid so (well, actually it was two points). Unfortunately, the writing contest is not designed to reflect the sort of edits that you made over the last month, it is designed to reflect the significant expansion of the actual content. This contest does not have a mechanism of factoring in the addition of infoboxes and persondata as they do not significantly affect the "article assessment rating" by which we score this contest. That is by no means a reflection on the type of edit, it is just not what this system is designed to reflect. Sorry about that. Regardss, Woody (talk) 00:50, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Owen Tudor Boyd
I would like to ask how you rate weather or not an article has been improved? I would of thought that you would decide improvements by filling out the B-class check, it is there for the sole reasons of assisting assessments and showing what improvements need to be made. My recent entry Owen Tudor Boyd was said to of had no improvements, even though the B-class checklist was not eve filled out. If i was assessing that article i would find that it satisfied the B-class check list and would therefore re-class it as B-class. Can i ask why this was not the case? Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 13:22, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It must have been just an oversight, as the checklist is usually filled out. I have since re-assessed the article, but I still believe it is a Start. The main areas of concern are coverage and prose/grammar; the information is lacking in my opinion and there are no substantial paragraphs - in many places it is just a list of appointments. Not that these hinder the article's rating, but it would be best if more sources were used in the text, and I'm not too sure the "Promotion Dates" section is really necessary. Well, I hope this helped sort out some confusion :) Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 10:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. This will help me improve the article further. I was concerned that the article had just been glanced at before being assessed. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 18:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Forgot to add an entry...
Do we have to add entries to this list in order for them to count? I just noticed that I forgot to add 194th Engineer Brigade (United States) to my contributions for December. I created it this month and it's only a Start class so I normally wouldn't be particular about it, but it just so happens that the extra 1 point would put me in a tie for second place this month. - Ed! (talk) (Hall of Fame)  05:32, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Is that a no? - Ed! (talk) (Hall of Fame)  04:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid so, once they have been tallied up and the barnstars issued, we can't really then add more to them. You could add it for this months, but that is not what you asked. Regards, Woody (talk) 10:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Scoring errors?
For the January contest it looks like there may have been errors in scoring two of my entries: Thanks. — Bellhalla (talk) 21:07, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * SMS U-14 (Austria-Hungary) was at Start-Class at the beginning of the month, so the points awarded should have been 15 for A-Class, not 10.
 * SMS U-27 (Austria-Hungary) was not in existence at the beginning of the month, so the points awarded should have been 6 for GA, not 5.
 * See this edit, I realised that when I was tallying the score and amended them, but I must have edited an old version of the page when adding the tallies. Your actual score is correct though. Regards, Woody (talk) 03:59, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Help please
Poitrus' two entries that are not scored - are they within the scope of our project? — Ed 17  (Talk /  Contribs)  06:36, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Here is your response: User_talk:Roger_Davies -MBK004 06:39, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Scoring mistake?
I've been given 10 points for Hastings Ismay which went from Stub Class to A-Class. Shouldn't that actually be worth 16 points? Thanks. Cool3 (talk) 13:13, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Sorry about that error. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 14:09, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Scoring mistake
Canon de 138 mm Modèle 1929 is credited as start although it's rated B. Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 16:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

When do they count
I don't really like submitting stuff on behalf of myself, which is why I never really submitted anything here before, but in the past couple months I have turned more of my efforts on getting MOH recipents pages built up and promoted (took a while to do all the little tedious things) as well as some others mostly related to the Marine Corps. I have gotten several lists to Featured status, created a bunch (with plans on creating at least a dozen more this month (at least finishing out the WWI recipents and Marine Corps Brevet Medal recipients)). So I guess my question is when do they count. I assume that I get no credit for articles past, which is fine, but what about the ones on GA of FLC now, do they count when they get promoted or when they are listed? I have I think 5 in GA currently, 2 in FLC with plans of adding more soon. Additionally I will be submitting a couple for Peer review and or A class in the next couple weeks as well. --Kumioko (talk) 19:33, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Anything you list on the page up until 31 August will be scored and tallied on 1 September. So if you list it at GA now but it doesn't get promoted until 2 September then it won't score any points for this month. So, if I were you I would list all of the ones you are having reviewed now, and wait until the end of the month. Regards, Woody (talk) 20:14, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks --Kumioko (talk) 20:26, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

WP:CUP
I thought people interested in this page might also be interested in the WikiCup; next year's signups are open. Nergaal (talk) 05:32, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Article submission suggestions
I had a suggestion to change one small thing when we submit entries to ensure that they are grouped and easy for the reviewers to review. I suggest we make each User/Submitter a section so for example it would say Kumioko and then below that all the entries I submitted and then it continues with the next user. No big deal to me since I am not the one reviewing them but it seems like it would be easier that way. --Kumioko (talk) 18:02, 27 August 2009 (UTC)


 * With the growing number of entries, we certainly need an easier way of scoring them. One possibility is a sortable table, so entries can be sorted by article name, nominator or level.  Roger Davies  talk 18:29, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Scoring articles
Since I have decided to leave wikipedia and stop editing due to a real life issue I am not going to push the issue but I recommend that in the future if a user takes an article from B class to GA class they should get the 5 points. Since GA requires a review and can require a lot of work where a B class article does not I think we are cheating ourselves by not giving the effort of takeing an article to GA due credit. I will let you all decide though since I will likely not be doing much anymore. --Kumioko (talk) 19:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry to hear your news but will take raise your comments when the contest is next reviewed.  Roger Davies  talk 18:31, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Modifying the scoring system
There's a discussion underway among the coordinators here about nominees scoring their own entries on an honour system. Comments and input would be appreciated. Roger Davies talk 11:14, 13 September 2009 (UTC)


 * A revised score table has been proposed over on the Coordinators talk page. This deals with some of the anomalies raised elsewhere on this page. As ever, comments there would be welcome.  Roger Davies  talk 06:05, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Question on dead article links
What happens if a sentence has a reference and the link/s are dead, do I leave it alone? I can't put it on the Internet Archive as of now? Ominae (talk) 21:40, 7 October 2009 (UTC)


 * You might, if you're lucky, find it's already been archived (go to http://www.archive.org/index.php and type the URL into the search box). Failing that, you'll probably need to replace the reference with one from another source. You can also tag the link with deadlink. WP:DEADLINK has some other suggestions. EyeSerene talk 12:39, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Two articles I got for references to the Special Boarding Unit article are dead. They're from the official Yomiuri English page. I got their links.  Ominae (talk) 00:30, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Who claims the prize?
Just a question, who claims the points for an article if multiple editors contribute to the article getting promoted and participate in this contest? I would recommend that they either split the points equally or they all get the credit and the points since they all contributed to the articles improvement. Case in point, I submitted Jared C. Monti for GA and Auntieruth has made a lot of good edits to help get the article promoted. Although I am the one the submitted it, I feel compelled to, at the very least, share in the bounty since this article apparently still needed quite a lot of work. --Kumioko (talk) 01:45, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Collaborations are allowable, and both editors are awarded points for an article's elevation. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 05:46, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks --Kumioko (talk) 05:51, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the thought, Kumioko. Since I was the one who promoted it, I don't think I should also have taken credit for it. This is just the job of being a reviewer.  If I were to help you with an article outside of the GA review process (or any other process), I might be willing to do that, but not in this case.  Auntieruth55 (talk) 18:21, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Entering/scoring a portal
Guys, I don't think I've ever seen a portal entered in the contest, should they be eligible and if so for how much? Can't imagine it'll affect top scores but we should determine this... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 21:57, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw that too and wondered how it was going to be scored. Since I have no idea what it takes to create/maintain a portal, I don't know if the work is commensurate with an article going from stub to B, or whatever.  Auntieruth55 (talk) 18:22, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Once again, Cirt had no score for the Portals. What is the solution on this? Auntieruth55 (talk) 14:41, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * What is the solution on this???? 02:42, 4 July 2010 (UTC)