Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Multi-sport events/Archive 1

Wikipedia:WikiProject Olympics
WikiProject Olympics still states that it aims to cover other multisport events. Perhaps we should coordinate with them the transfer of terminology from their mainpage? 76.66.200.95 (talk) 10:13, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I intend to raise it up soon. Don't have the time to do so right now. We can transfer coverage of the various multi-sport events (Pan American Games, Asian Games etc) soon, provided we are ready to do so. A NG C HENRUI Talk♨ 11:31, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Suggested taskforces
Okay, I think we should conduct a preliminary survey of the taskforces to be established. I went through some of the multi-sport events, here are the ones I believe are significant enough to stand as taskforces: Asian Games, Commonwealth Games, Jeux de la Francophonie (Francophonie Games), Maccabiah Games and Pan American Games. Possibly these as well: All-Africa Games, Central American and Caribbean Games and Mediterranean Games. Come to think of it, there are potentially many taskforces that can be created with the right resources and level of participation.

Or we can organise taskforces by areas. Culture-based, religion-based, language-based, youth-based, disabled-based taskforces. Though I think the former organisational style will work more effectively, just less collectively. We can however name the groups, if we follow the latter organisational style, work groups instead of taskforces. Ultimately, they still have the same status, although in practice they may function slightly differently. A NG C HENRUI Talk♨ 11:44, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd recommend starting task forces for the Pan American Games, Asian Games and Commonwealth Games and see where we can go from there (I think those are the games most likely to attract editors?). Also, I think these three have many pages which need quite a bit of work done on them, while the Maccabiah and Francophonie topics generally still have many missing articles. SFB 18:43, 11 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd say first, a general regional task force, a general lineage/ethnic/cultural task force, a general language-based-games task force, youth and third-age (senior citizen) task force, and a disabled task force, a historical task force (for ancient Games that are not the Ancient Olympics) are good ideas.
 * Games/etc that should get their own task forces would be the PanAm and CWG. Probably should get TFs - Asiad, Francophonie, Celtic and Highland (cultural - not a single Games), Maccabiah. Possible candidates for other TFs: Universiade (we have many Uni students on WikiPedia... there might be interest), famous Knightly tournaments (historical, Medieval Europe -- there seems to be an active population of Wikipedians who do knights and chivalry articles), famous Roman games festivals (historical, antiquity, Ancient Rome -- there seems to be an active population of Wikipedians who focus on the Mediterranean Classical World)
 * 76.66.200.95 (talk) 07:23, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I think no one will argue against setting up a Commonwealth Games taskforce. Can we get the taskforce up and see how it does? We can't just establish multiple taskforces at once. I'm assuming there's no objections here...

Commonwealth Games Poll
Support creation of Commonwealth Games taskforce Oppose
 * 1) A NG C HENRUI  WP:MSE♨ 08:08, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Sellyminime (talk) 08:27, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) 76.66.200.95 (talk) 06:02, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) SFB 12:26, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Other Comments
 * someone should mention this to WikiProject Commonwealth. 76.66.200.95 (talk) 06:02, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 10:10, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Creation of taskforce
Would anyone like to volunteer with the creation of the Commonwealth Games taskforce? I've got other work to do and I hope someone would spearhead this initiative. A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 07:24, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd like to, but I personally have other recent commitments on Wikipedia that are time consuming (launching two new WikiProjects ... East Asia and North America) So I cannot do it. 76.66.203.138 (talk) 05:40, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * What should be the features of the task force?
 * "CWG=yes" and "commonwealth=yes" on the project banner, obviously
 * Task force page, obviously
 * Does it have a separate talk page, or should it redirect here? -- probably should be separate
 * Does this TF set importance levels? ("CWG-importance=Top" & "commonwealth-importance=low" etc)
 * Does this TF set its own class levels? ("CWG-class=Start" & "commonwealth-class=FA" etc) -- probably not, usually there's only one class
 * Does this TF categorize by class? (if it sets its own class levels, it'll need to)
 * Does this TF categorize by importance? (if it sets its own importance levels, it'll need to)
 * Does this TF have its own userbox?
 * 76.66.203.138 (talk) 13:40, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Re: Invitation template
See here regarding your invitation template. I think the line break is interfering with the text flow, at least on my screen. I'd recommend removing the line break, as it is not needed. Thanks! -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 19:59, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay that's definitely fine. Cheers, A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 10:28, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Countdown banner
Here's a countdown banner I've drafted. It actually excludes some other major multi-sport events, so it can definitely be bettered. What do you think? A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 08:02, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * A few major issues I already outlined with you, but it looks pretty good! Would like to see the Mediterranean Games added as well though. Sellyminime (talk) 08:30, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Suggest you move the three continental Games to the right, add the Med Games to the second level, and add the next Summer and Winter Olympics to the first level. They are after all multi-sport events, just not explicitly under our purview due to WP:OLYMPICS' existence. Strange Passerby (talk • c • status) 08:35, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm... Med Games = ??? I'm not sure about displaying full details of the Olympic Games in that banner. After all even the Paralympics get their own countdown banner and the Olympics doesn't include the Paralympics in theirs. Perhaps we can leave one box in the banner for the Olympics, and direct readers to WP:OLYMPICS. So the first level will have one box for the Olympics, three boxes (to the right) for the continental games. If it gets any bigger... well the Olympics does not exactly fall under our scope although they are a multi-sport event, since WP:OLYMPICS is already independent and not parented. We should only bother when we have mutual involvement, which applies to certain articles such as the European Youth Olympic Festival. A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 09:01, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Med Games = Mediterranean Games (For countries bordering the Mediterranean Seas, minus Israel and plus San Marino, Andorra and Serbia) Sellyminime (talk) 09:02, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoops, I didn't notice it earlier. For that matter, we can dicuss which event to include, since there are other events with equally if not greater prestige such as the Maccabiah Games and the Central American and Caribbean Games. A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 09:28, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see the Maccabiah Games as being anywhere near as important as any Regional Games. Although there are a lot of participants, it only gets any kind of media in Israel (Irony), and has almost no detail, even on it's main website. I say we go with regional Games, especially ones where this WikiProject has members.Sellyminime (talk • contribs) 09:42, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

World Games
If someone has the time, we should standardise the World Games articles to use the widely-adopted Wikipedia consensus format of  World Games, rather than World Games . Strange Passerby (talk • c • status) 08:05, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I noticed that as well. I think if there's no justification for the current format, it should be changed as suggested. A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 08:11, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * JaumeBG and I have done this with quite a few Football (Soccer) articles before, and I (we) would be happy to help with it here. Sellyminime (talk) 08:31, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Lusophony Games
Well, the countdown timer for the Lusophony Games in Goa, India won't work well, as they haven't announced a date yet. I'm willing to be the person in charge of the Lusophony games, and keeping an eye on the articles from that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sellyminime (talk • contribs) 10:05, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Classifications
Although it's obvious what a stub is, and what an FA is, how do we classify articles by importance? I'm ready to go around fixing all these banners, but we need some set rules. For a starter, I want to say any athlete who hasn't won multiple Gold Medals in an international competition is low importance and the main page for any Games (Even specific years) is high importance. However, where does this leave articles such as "(Sport) in xxxx", "Venues at xxxx", "(Country) at xxxx", "xxxx Medal Table" and so on.

In any case, we need set rules. I'd like Ang to confirm if my two assumptions are correct, so I can mark those, and the rest, we can discuss here. Sellyminime (talk) 06:49, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * the most important multisport events are TOP importance (modern Olympics, Paralympics), the other very major multisport events are high importance (FINA Aquatics Worlds, CWG, Asiad, Universiade, Francophonie, Pan-Am, Gay Games), other major multisports are medium importance (Maccabiah, Nordic Games, Arctic Games, Canada Games, etc). Articles about classes of multisport events are high importance (Highland games (as a type), school sports festivals (as a type), etc).
 * I would say people who establish major multisport events (Pierre Le Coubertin, etc) would be high. Athletes who have high acheivements (world records, medals; some sort of honours accorded them (ie. flagbearer) ) in multisport events would be medium, other athletes in multisport events would be low.
 * The per competition main article would be medium (if the main games article itself is top or high) or low (if the main games article itself is medium or low)
 * The per sport and per event article for each competition edition or competition would be low.
 * That's just my thoughts on the matter. 76.66.199.238 (talk) 07:55, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * You can call me ACR instead, since Ang is actually my last name. Hey, maybe I should change my username to ACR. I don't think we should tag athletes who participated in multi-sport events. WP:OLYMPICS does tag Olympic athletes, but thats because they're inherently notable. I would advise that we just tag the events and persons who are intimately connected to them (e.g Goodwill Games founder Ted Turner) and avoid multi-sport event athletes for now. A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 13:18, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * We can actually come up with a three-tier system to rate a multi-sport event's significance. 1 would be Commonwealth Games for example, 2 would include Central American and Caribbean Games, and 3 State Games of North Carolina etc. We can develop this over the next few days if you're keen. A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 13:34, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Maybe Events as like you said, and article specifics as 1 - Main Page 2 - Year Page 3 - Event Page and Medals Page etc. Then we add the totals together to get a rating. I guess it's just from our perspective really, but I think we should make a /Rating sub-page to make it clear. Sellyminime (talk) 23:17, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Leaving out athletes/competitors in general would be fine by me. As for number system, there's options to add priority to the banner, IIRC, which can give you a different rating from importance. It might be useful to enable the "bottom-importance" level as well. Some Wikiprojects have that.
 * So for people then: Pierre de Coubertin and founders of top/high importance events - high ; most founders - medium ; people accorded honours at a games event (ie. flag bearer, final/stadium torch bearer(s), year/edition organizer) - low
 * Importance being importance to the understanding of multisport events, priority being priority to any set of multisport event articles (ie. main / edition / edition's event ) 76.66.199.238 (talk) 06:21, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, WP:OLYMPICS maintain their own quality and importance scale. See here and here. We can do the same, while of course factoring in our own guidelines. A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 10:53, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I would strongly suggest leaving athletes outside of the project scope, except in cases where they have a strong association to a particular multi-sport event(s). For instance, the 2010 Commonwealth Games alone could feasibly add 3000 new athletes across all sports to the project scope. This would dilute the scope and turn our attention away from the events themselves, which I believe to be the main point of interest here. It takes much time to tag and assess articles, and perhaps this project could be more effective if we learn the lesson from the 40,000 stubs which receive little attention via WikiProject Olympics. SFB 12:56, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Australian 2010 Commonwealth Games medal tally
Is Australia's figure of 177 medals accurate? It seems there are around six missing medals that I cannot seem to find; is it just my mistake? (see "Medals by sport" table on the Australia at the 2010 Commonwealth Games article) – Allied45 (talk) 02:38, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems to me the infobox was not updated accordingly (it was less than 177 then). Both medal tables in the article tally now; I've checked the official website as well. And gosh, the article is 228 kb in size. A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 03:35, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter if it's accurate or not, we still beat the Brits :P Sellyminime Talk 06:45, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it isn't showing in the Summer Olympics... :) Okay but the info is indeed accurate now I believe? A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 07:21, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I appreciate that, but what I really meant was that the medals don't seem to add up to 177 if you go through by sport (according to my calculations it adds up to 172). – Allied45 (talk) 04:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Not all the sport sections have been updated have they? I remember some are still blank and not updated. A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 08:10, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Project page layout
Should we adopt the same layout for our project page as WikiProject Olympics? Its aesthetically pleasing, at least definitely better than the current layout. We can change the colour scheme to something of a red hue as a difference. A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 07:18, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Support I like the idea, and I think red would look awesome. Sellyminime Talk 08:54, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, the layout is so well-liked that a few other WikiProjects (at least two as I recall) have leeched off it. It becomes clear the layout is duplicated after some time. Maybe it doesn't matter, since using a different colour (red) does the job of individualisation. A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 09:09, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It depends how much time you want to put into it. It took me a few days to customise the Athletics Project front page from the Olympic one. I think I did a relatively good job of this, but it was a massive case of trial and error because I knew little about html and markup at the time. If you are going to work off the Olympic one, then a word of thanks to User:Parutakupiu may be worthwhile.
 * If on the other hand you fancy a stab at an original one, foreign language wikis (e.g. fr:Projet:Baseball) are a font of novel ideas. I trans-wikied the tabbed format here if that is of any interest to you. SFB 13:09, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

User:LivingBot/ProjectSignup
There's an automated tool that announces wikiproject milestones to the community. Would we want to sign up? 76.66.203.138 (talk) 13:32, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * This would be awesome! Sellyminime Talk 05:58, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Why not? Have you signed up? A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 15:23, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Not yet. We need to decide what our milestones are. Total article count, FA articles, GA articles, A articles? (FA+GA+A)-articles? At what levels? (100, 200, 300, ... levels of articles tagged, 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, ... levels?) 76.66.203.138 (talk) 05:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I suggest 1, 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000, 2500, 5000 and so on like that. Probably 500 and onwards for Total articles, 10 and onwards for FA's and A's, 25 and onwards for GA's. Sellyminime Talk 06:00, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * So... we should ask for:
 * Total: 500, 1000, 2500, 5000, 10000, 25000, 50000, ...
 * A or FA: 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000, 2500, 5000, ...
 * GA: 25, 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000, 2500, 5000, ...
 * That about right? 76.66.203.138 (talk) 06:18, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems fair to me. I think 5000 for A/FA and GA is a little too high; we aren't going to reach that anytime soon are we?
 * I'd be surprised if even WPMILHIST+WPSHIPS+WPAVIATION combined have that many A+FA+GA articles. (those are three very active wikiprojects, with their own stringent A-class evaluation procedures) 76.66.203.138 (talk) 07:48, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter though, does it? I mean, it's still a milestone, even if we never reach it, so we should keep it. Sellyminime Talk 09:11, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking it through. We should remove A for now since we don't have that standard and don't intend to have it anytime soon. We should add FL as well. My proposal: FA: 5, 10, 15, 25, 50, 75, 100, 150, 200, 350, 500 GA: 5, 10, 15, 25, 50, 75, 100, 150, 200, 350, 500 (same as above) FL: 5, 10, 15, 25, 50, 75, 100, 150, 200, 350, 500 (same as above) You can plot a rather fine graph with these. Once the FA/GA/FLs start rolling in, there should be a snowball effect. As for Totals, I would say do away with it.
 * Ok, I've submitted a request to them. 76.66.203.138 (talk) 15:31, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Signpost
Wikipedia Signpost/2010-11-01/WikiProject report's news in brief insert made a mention of the project. StrPby (talk) 07:19, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Ooh, never realised that. Was it suggested to the newsroom, or did they just publish it since this WikiProject is new? A NG C HENRUI WP:MSE♨ 15:22, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It was suggested to them. 76.66.203.138 (talk) 05:34, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

2010 Asian Games
We might need to keep a lookout for editing related to Palestinians. I noticed a comment at Talk:2010 Asian Games about how Palestine is not a country, when the article says nothing of the sort, and the Palestine at the 2010 Asian Games was edited by the same editor stating that Palestine was different from everyone else, being not a sovereign country (I don't know what you'd call Hong Kong or Macau then... they're not sovereign either). I've removed the statement from the Palestinian article, since it's false (because of HK and Macau) and replied at the 2010 talk page that countries are not represented, but NOC teams are. 76.66.203.138 (talk) 15:25, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

1985 South Asian Games
Hello, my friends: A group of us are working on clearing the backlog at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Articles_lacking_sources_from_October_2006. The article in the above header has been without sources for the past four years and may be removed if none are added. I wonder if you can help do so. Sincerely, and all the best to you, GeorgeLouis (talk) 16:58, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

1987 South Asian Games
Hello, my friends: A group of us are working on clearing the backlog at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Articles_lacking_sources_from_October_2006. The article in the above header has been without sources for the past four years and may be removed if none are added. I wonder if you can help do so. Sincerely, and all the best to you, GeorgeLouis (talk) 17:00, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

1991 South Asian Games
Hello, my friends: A group of us are working on clearing the backlog at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Articles_lacking_sources_from_October_2006. The article in the above header has been without sources for the past four years and may be removed if none are added. I wonder if you can help do so. Sincerely, and all the best to you, GeorgeLouis (talk) 17:01, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

1995 South Asian Games
Hello, my friends: A group of us are working on clearing the backlog at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Articles_lacking_sources_from_October_2006. The article in the above header has been without sources for the past four years and may be removed if none are added. I wonder if you can help do so. Sincerely, and all the best to you, GeorgeLouis (talk) 17:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

"Games"
FYI, at Talk:Games, there is a discussion on the usage of the page. 76.66.194.212 (talk) 05:31, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Asian Games
Please note the discussion at WikiProject Council/Proposals/Asian Games.

65.93.12.43 (talk) 07:29, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

2011 Asian Winter Games
I have no idea how to helping if this situation, from your member come to interfere like Wikipedia is owned by him. Not only this article, but... Forget it. Regards. --Aleen f 1 07:24, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

First of all you are not following how multi sporting events are formatted on wikipedia. Therefore I had to revert most of your edits. Finally, some of your edits, were good and I put them back because they belonged there. Seriously though if you don't know how to format like the other events do not edit please.

I am not trying to be rude at all the problem is you will not listen! Intoronto1125 (talk) 20:18, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

2018 CWG
Not sure if this is relevant but the Hambantota 2018 bid is using Wikipedia's pictograms for advertising. Intoronto1125 (talk) 14:14, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you taking about their website?  undefinedBill william compton  Talk   14:46, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * At this link you will see what I am taking about. Intoronto1125 (talk) 19:02, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * This may be somewhat problematic. We're not allowed to use official Games' symbols, are we? >.< Sellyme Talk 23:44, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably will become a reverse copyvio problem some time soon, especially if they use those as official symbols and, more importantly, claim copyright. See Reusing_Wikipedia_content. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 01:04, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The city is a contender now apprently, but isn't the pictograms registered under the wikicommons? Intoronto1125 (talk) 11:13, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

New Coordinator
I was thinking since AngChenrui has not edited since December, we need to appoint a new coordinator. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions  03:23, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It would be a good idea, and might help rejuvenate the project. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 03:38, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * We need to get a list of people who would be interested in holding the position. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   03:43, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I'd be interested in helping about, but I think multiple (for a WP as small as this perhaps just two) coordinators will be a better idea than the one. Sellyme Talk 05:39, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The project is practically dead, we don't have any goal, proper scope and guidelines. Project clashes with WP:OLY at many of places and for God sake don't call it a small project, because single Asian Games cover more than 2,500 articles [a good count for a separate Wiki Project]. If we want to resurrect this project then we need good planning and leadership.  undefined — Bill william compton  Talk   13:11, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I posted the message on everyone's talk page, so we should see the reaction from everyone soon. I agree with Sellyme, we need appoint 2 perhaps 3 coordinators. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   13:57, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Small by activity, not size. I probably should have clarified that. Sellyme Talk 14:02, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I still think this a project worth pursuing. I hadn't seen AngChenrui in a while, hopefully he's enjoying himself! I think there's nothing inherently wrong with having multiple co-ordinators. Just out of interest: where are the scope clashes with WikiProject Olympics? The editors involved in the Olympics project tend to focus on quite specific aspects of just the Olympics (e.g. "Sport/nation/medals at X Olympics Games"), so I think it makes sense to have a more general multi-sport project. As far as my own contribution is concerned, I remain more of a part-time player looking to document random bits of past games and help with coverage of on-going events. SFB 16:41, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think this is a great idea, especially because MSEs are so often under-covered, and it'd be great to have some coordinators taking care of this. Prayerfortheworld (talk) 01:56, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That's 5 supports, 0 opposes, and I doubt there'll be very many other "voters" (For the lack of a better word). Should we move on to self-nominations and a (considerably longer) evaluation stage? Sellyme Talk 05:38, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sellyme, I think you are right. What do you have in mind for the evaluation stage? Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   13:40, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I was just thinking about a simple self-nomination with explanation, and then everyone discusses who they think will benefit the project the most, through activity, knowledge of the subject, and knowledge of the WP: guidelines and so on. Simply comments from other users in this project is really all that's necessary, it's not like we're on RfA here. Sellyme Talk 23:31, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

MSE are a big subject area. Might it be better to have sub-project (task force) coordinators, who would coordinate articles related to, for example, the Asian Games or the Jeux de la Francophonie? Of course, as mentioned above, a good working knowledge of wikipedia's content policies and guidelines would be important and essential. StrPby (talk) 00:20, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think we have a large enough active usergroup for that to work, unless we had people organise multiple events (which really wouldn't be that difficult). Sellyme Talk 06:47, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

By clash, I meant that still people are tagging articles with WP:Olympics, but they should be covered under this project. I think StrPby has a valid point that we should have separate task force coordinators, because it's a big burden for an individual to focus on such a long list MSEs and we've enough users working on these topics. I also think that we should give more weightage to those who are working more specifically toward different multi-sport events. undefined — Bill william compton Talk   15:04, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Nominations
Place your name at the bottom of this list with "# " if you are interested in helping co-ordinate WP:MUSE

1. Sellyme Talk

2. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions


 * I think, we should maybe go to a vote? Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   02:00, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * To be honest, if it's just the two of us, I don't think a vote is very necessary. I was hoping there'd be more people who wanted to co-ordinate. Perhaps we should nominate specific events we're the most interested in, and work out more specific things from there? Sellyme Talk 04:09, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Should we both agree to become both co-ordinate the whole project? Two is better then one I think. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   05:05, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I normally cover anything I can anyway, so sure. Does anyone in the project object? Sellyme Talk 05:11, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

3. I'd like to nominate myself, but specifically for Asian and Commonwealth Games, because these are the only events where I contribute most. I've created portals for both and also operating by myself, which supports my high attention toward these two. I know it's kind of late and I'm really sorry for this. undefined — Bill william compton Talk   05:45, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you any good with more advanced wiki-editing? I've taken a look at the (horribly out of date) schedule on the main page, and although I can more or less understand it, I don't feel overly confident about editing it yet. Sellyme Talk 08:41, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Would you like to mention which type of "advanced wiki-editing"?, also what is this main page you are taking about?  undefined — Bill william compton  Talk   09:51, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry I was a bit unclear, I meant this. Sellyme Talk 10:35, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm skilled in HTML, so Wiki markup is not a big deal. I guess you were taking about updating Asian Games in the countdown template, which I've done now.  undefined — Bill william compton  Talk   12:01, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

4. I think that as one of the initiators of the project alongside AngChenrui, I should at least throw my hat into the ring. I'm comfortable with policy and wikimarkup (including some complex template stuff) and would probably take an overseer approach (at least until August, when my free time will increase a lot more). StrPby (talk) 10:58, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I think all four of us should co-ordinate together. I suggest each of us take two events. Bill said the Asian Games and Commonwealth Games, I am interested in heading up the Pan American Games and 2010 Commonwealth Games (I have contributed a lot to the 2011 Pan American Games). Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   14:00, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think Intoronto has a valid point and we should make a strategy to improve the status of this project. I have lots of ideas for that and I certainly think other people also have something in their mind, so just come here and start working together.  undefined — Bill william compton  Talk   15:02, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Is a vote necessary Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   15:09, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd work primarily on the 2011 Island Games for now, but I'd try to contribute across the board when any events are running. Sellyme Talk 23:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I nominate myself to Co-ordinate the Pan American Games, and together co-ordinate the Commonwealth Games with Bill William Compton. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   17:15, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think that more or less takes care of everything in the immediate future (Unless I'm missing something). There seems to be general consensus, should we fix up the Project page with the information now? Sellyme Talk 23:14, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess, first we should finalize the tasks distribution; as much as I'm perceiving from here—for Pan American Games—Intoronto is interested, Commonwealth Games—me and Intoronto, Asian Games—only me, Sellyme has interests in other regional Games, like Island Games, but still we've other major events to handle—African Games, Jeux de la Francophonie, Lusophony Games, World Games, South American Games—and many more. StrPby, what's in your mind?  undefined — Bill william compton  Talk   03:31, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The All-Africa Games are the only ones that are being held in the next two years, so it's not incredibly vital. However, I do have several Portuguese-speaking friends, so I'll be able to help with the Lusophony Games, and if need be I'll help with the South American games as well. Sellyme Talk 03:45, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Those other events are really minor compared to the rest. However why don't we all do those games together? Maybe it is time to update the project's page. Intoronto1125 Talk  Contributions   20:35, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, it seems reasonable, also Jeux de la Francophonie would have better media coverage in Canada.  undefined — Bill william compton  Talk   20:42, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There was no media coverage here whatsoever during the last games. Intoronto1125  Talk   Contributions   21:40, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not surprised that it wasn't on TV, but if you speak French(?) it'll be FAR easier for you to find online sources. Sellyme Talk 22:39, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The thing is a majority of Canadians can't speak French. Its basically people from Quebec, New Brunswick and small pockets elsewhere. I was born and raised in Toronto, so I have very limited knowledge. Anyways, I can find sources with my basic French. Sellyme, would you like the honors to change the project page to the new details? Intoronto1125  Talk   Contributions   00:53, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ How about working on WikiProject Multi-sport events/Naming conventions? Stuff like xxxx Commonwealth Games, France at the xxxx World Games, Solo synchronized swimming at the xxxx Jeux de la Francophonie. I'm a bit busy at the moment, but if no-one else can I'll have it done by tonight. Sellyme Talk 01:55, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you mean, by naming conventions, sorry. I think you should go ahead with it. And for the francophone games, I believe its going to be hard to find information for the previous events. Do you think it will look bad on me if the events have lack of information? Intoronto1125  Talk   Contributions   02:20, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * As of now we need coordinators for the following events:


 * World Games
 * Universiade - Intoronto1125
 * Pan Arab Games
 * Games of the Small States of Europe - Sellyme
 * Maccabiah Games
 * All-Africa Games
 * Central American and Caribbean Games - Sellyme
 * Asian regional events and beach games - Intoronto1125 (South Asian Games)
 * Canada Games - Intoronto1125

If there are no objections, I will change the main page. Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk  Contributions   02:33, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll take Games of the Small States of Europe, as countries like Andorra and San Marion are a passion of mine. Also, I have a tonne of old French newspapers that I can look through for information regarding the Jeux de la Francophonie, so I'll pass that on to you when I get an opportunity.

I think the World Games doesn't particularly need a single coordinator, but more of a group effort from us all. With regards to the others, I should probably give you and Bill (And StrPby, if he wants) a chance to select a few events :P Sellyme Talk 02:38, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I have asked Mohsen1248 to help us with the Asian Games. That would be great.


 * I'll do South East Asian Games-related work, since I'm best placed for that. I'll help with the JdlF if needed as I can understand basic French. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 02:40, 22 May 2011 (UTC)


 * How about once we go through this list. Alone Asia has so many sub-regional MSEs—East, South, South East, West, Central—Asian Games and events like, Asian—Winter, Indoor, Martial Arts, Beach, Youth—Games. In my view, we should make a rough list of all possible MSEs, categorize them on the basis of their importance (top, high, medium, low), decide their coordinators and set up an action plan for each of them.  undefined — Bill william compton  Talk   07:06, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Project guidelines
Working off of Selly's suggestion to work on naming conventions, I've created a preliminary set of general guidelines (notability and naming) for the project. Please feel free to input your ideas at the talk page on what can be improved. As it stands, the general guidelines are pretty much the status quo. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 03:27, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Page Archives
How often (if ever) does this page get auto-archived? Sellyme Talk 03:09, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think for automatically archiving this page, we have to register with MiszaBot or ClueBot III.  undefined — Bill william compton  Talk   03:26, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Mkay, I added the template at the top of the page. Feel free to change the variables. Sellyme Talk 03:47, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Template help
Can someone look at this template and fix the problem. The "2011" appears on a row by itself, it should be on the other line. Thanks! Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk  Contributions   17:55, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Think it was just a stray space causing the problem - Ba se me nt 12  (T.C) 18:12, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk   Contributions   18:58, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Calendar format
Please read the Wikiproject Olympics proposal: I personally do not agree with this format, because it makes the calendar useless, because it does not connect the different events/ What do you think? However, this I do not mind this style. Intoronto1125 <big style="color:Orange;">Talk  Contributions  04:19, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know why you are bringing the discussion from there to here; that seems like forum shopping to me. Regardless, the reasons listed in that discussion are as follows:
 * Per WP:Manual of Style (accessibility), ensure that color is not the only method used to convey important information. Therefore, color coding alone for the "Event competitions" cells is insufficient, some symbol or character must be present for those table cells.
 * Per WP:Manual of Style (linking), keep piped links as intuitive as possible. The use of a bullet to link to individual event articles is very unintuitive. The casual reader will not know about these hidden links unless they happen to mouse over them and pause long enough for the popup.  Even then, it's awkward to hunt for specific events by having to mouse over a potentially large set of bullets (e.g. athletics). Therefore, it was felt that it is appropriate to reach the event pages by navigating through the top-level sport article first, and these are linked in the first column of the calendar table.
 * You also reverted a few other improvements I made, namely:
 * specifying a consistent width for each column, rather than a random, uneven set of widths
 * using the more appropriate "Events" label instead of "Gold medals", since it is not uncommon for multiple gold medalists in a single event at each Games (e.g. ties happen in several gymnastics and athletics events)
 * Therefore, this version of the 2012 calendar is compliant with the Manual of Style, a necessary condition for good article status (such as 1952 Winter Olympics). — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 04:13, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I posted it here, because if this project decided to go with the plan then, it is necessary to switch the calendars in this project. You are not a member, so I took the liberty to post it here. Intoronto1125 <big style="color:Orange;">Talk  Contributions   04:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, now I'm a "member". — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 04:26, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Andrew Andrwsc, I was not a fan of the system I was using until literally a week ago (go through my edits). I was using the number system, however I decided to change because almost all calendars were formatted like that, and it would be tedious to go back and fix all the calendars. Your two concerns are fixed. Intoronto1125 <big style="color:Orange;">Talk  Contributions   04:28, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * First, I'm Andrwsc. User:Andrew is somebody else.  Second, neither of the two concerns of consequence are addressed. Lastly, don't worry about "tedious" work: WP:There is no deadline.  — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 04:31, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Easy to make a mistake when the names are very similar. Secondly, in case you didn't see the edits I did put these edits back:


 * You also reverted a few other improvements I made, namely:
 * specifying a consistent width for each column, rather than a random, uneven set of widths
 * using the more appropriate "Events" label instead of "Gold medals", since it is not uncommon for multiple gold medalists in a single event at each Games (e.g. ties happen in several gymnastics and athletics events) Intoronto1125 <big style="color:Orange;">Talk  Contributions   04:38, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm in favor of this number system, but have a little doubt that how we're going to link those articles of different events of single sport, because on the left side column we only have link to main article of any particular sport. I suggest we should use bullets in spite of numbers, as it would give us chance for multiple linkages. undefined — Bill william compton  Talk   04:55, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Bill william Compton, I 100% agree. Intoronto1125 <big style="color:Orange;">Talk  Contributions   05:00, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think this is something that demands more thought. Obviously, neither is an ideal solution to the dilemma of providing accessibility both visually and technically. Perhaps we could consider an alternative where we have a number which links to a a place which details the ongoings of that day. For example, if each sport sub-article (such as Swimming at the 2008 Summer Olympics) had a section with day-by-day breakdowns of events and happenings in the competition, then we could easily link to that section from the number in the calendar.
 * The problem with having just one link to go off is that generally we don't have a place for daily analysis. Our typical structure has a dynamic where the "sport at X Games" article has a medallist table, which then provides links to specific events, not days. Our coverage is quite database-ish, with an emphasis on the bare bones statistics and a characteristic lack of prose relating to the sporting competitions themselves (very similar to the sports reference website).
 * Still, we do have two models for day-by-day breakdowns in Chronological summary of the 2008 Summer Olympics and 2006 Commonwealth Games highlights (now up for deletion actually!). The 2009 World Championships in Athletics article has an execution of the daily highlights idea on a more sport-specific level. I feel we should try to develop these ideas further. SFB 17:40, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I fully support adding day-by-day summaries of MSE's, they'd be very useful. Sellyme Talk 23:45, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Original research issue
I pretty much connected the dots for this article, should I just reference the two sources I used, or leave it alone? Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk  Contributions   14:53, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Err, what article? Sellyme Talk 22:59, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I forgot, Judo at the 2011 Pan American Games – Qualification. The problem is I have the rankings till March 18 which I have sourced. However there is one more tournament to include until you get the final results, the Pan American championship. I took the results and added it to the March 18 ranking and got the final list. Would that be a problem? Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk   Contributions   00:27, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * My opinion would be that if you have a source for the way calculations are handled, then the maths you have to do wouldn't be OR. However, if you don't, then it would. StrPby (talk) 00:48, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The math is sourced already. Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk   Contributions   01:12, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:OR does say that simple logical reasoning and mathematics when the numbers are sourced is not OR. Sellyme Talk 02:21, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

2011 Pan American Games
This article was tagged with A-class status, which I've changed, as according to A class criteria the proposal to promote to A-Class should be made on the article's talk page and supported there by two uninvolved editors, with no significant opposes, or it should be discussed on the talk page of the related WikiProject and coordinator has the responsibility to close the review and tag the article as A-class. So, I think that if anybody want this article as A-class then it would be appropriate if project members informally review the article here. It is just a suggestion!! undefined — Bill william compton Talk   21:18, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Oops, was not aware of this prerequisite. I was thinking changing the class would attract more editors to help. Sorry! Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk   Contributions   00:36, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Bit of a Catch 22, isn't it? I'm not sure I'd call the article A-class, but it's certainly getting there. Perhaps we should wait a month or two before holding a full discussion so there will be more information? Sellyme Talk 02:07, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yup, I am currently slowly reviewing the 2010 Asian Games for good article status, hopes the 2011 Pan American Games gets to that status as well. Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk   Contributions   02:51, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Intoronto, there is nothing to be sorry about as you always had good intentions behind this, and it's very soothing that someone is trying so hard for the improvement of this topic and as Sellyme used Heller's term, right now it seems logically impossible, as the criteria of stability is a big obstacle; but I certainly think that with all these efforts, someday this article would be in A or FA position. I might not be much aware of this topic, but I'd try to help you in this, cheers!  undefined — Bill william compton  Talk   04:53, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Proposal for the "Asian Games task force"
I think we need a separate task force for the Asian Games, this type of idea was also raised during the conception of this project. A separate task force would allow us to use WP 1.0 bot and that would be really helpful in assessing Asian Games related articles, a better way to improve the quality. In the current situation, users like me have to search in the main category, which is really annoying. As a coordinator of this topic, I need a tool and a dedicated space to improve the quality of the articles. So, I'm expecting other project members to share their views about this and of course any suggestions are also welcome, thanks. undefined — Bill william compton Talk   17:47, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Support:This is actually a great idea! I have no suggestions though. Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk   Contributions   03:34, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Support: We need to expand this project and keep working on improvement, this would help. Sellyme Talk 08:29, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Support: As one of the largest elite level games, it makes sense to create a taskforce. With on-going population growth and economic development in this region, I anticipate that the importance of this event and its history will only become more pronounced in time. SFB 16:17, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm grateful to all you people for your enthusiastic support. I'm going to start working under my user-space and will provide a link here, so that you people can also check on it, merci encore.  undefined — Bill william compton  Talk   13:07, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

2011 Pan American Games broadcasting
I am really unsure how to start this article and how to format it. Anyone have any suggestions/thoughts? Would someone like to create the article? Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk  Contributions   03:44, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Just make it a table form with Country/Channels/HD Channels/Reference. Very little prose is needed. A good example is List of 2008 Summer Olympics broadcasters. Sellyme Talk 04:17, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

National Congress of State Games
I have never heard of these games anyone else have information? Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk  Contributions   02:43, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Actually the national group is called the National Congress of State Games, but the event they host is called the State Games of America, which is held every two years.  Medalists from state games automatically qualify to participate in the SGA.  Website is here: NCSG website and SGA website found here: SGA Home.  Eventually I'd like to separate the two pages out, but we're not to that point yet.AndLibertyForAll (talk) 03:47, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay I understand, is it included on the list of multi-sporting events? Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk   Contributions   03:49, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yup, it's there under "State Games of America" with the NCSG in parentheses. The component state games are listed below the list.  I think there's a lot of confusion on this issue and I hope to clear it up as best as I can.AndLibertyForAll (talk) 03:59, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Its great you are taking the effort to expand the coverage of this multi-sporting event. Intoronto1125 <font color="Yello"> Talk   Contributions   04:02, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

2011 Island Games
I'm visiting the Isle of Wight at the end of the month and planning to catch some sessions of the 2011 Island Games. I'll try to take some photos (though I'm no decent photographer) and pick up a couple of programmes, if there is such a thing. Anything specific anyone wants me to look out for? --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 15:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Possibly a list of detailed results will be great, ad any picture you manage to take will be great as well! Thanks. Would you like to add your name to list of participants? I will leave further comments to User:Sellyme. Intoronto1125 <b style="color:red; font-size:larger;">Talk</b> Contributions   15:19, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, coverage of the Island Games isn't exactly world-standard. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Also, as a side note, Intoronto, I got my name changed 4-5 months ago. Sellyme Talk 20:58, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Some pics would be great and also useful. I will start with creating the articles and so on at the weekend. Kante4 (talk) 21:00, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I was wondering lol! User talk:Sellyme. The name on the main page is different. Intoronto1125 <b style="color:red; font-size:larger;">Talk</b> Contributions   21:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I would tend to think a "detailed list of results" is not what is needed. Most of the participants will not be remotely notable for an article and per our preliminary guidelines it might be better to just broadly cover this without going into too much detail. StrPby (talk) 22:37, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I would disagree. Although we don't need to go overboard with individual athletes data, we should try to get as much information regarding the event standings as possible. Even if you think that that's a bit inclusive, it's always better to do too much, because then you can always get that information back later, if need be. Sellyme Talk 23:24, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It isn't necessary to have notability. The event is notable and that is what should be covered I guess. I was thinking for example in athletics, we can list the top ten or so in each event. For football full information is necessary (goals, referees, attendance etc.) Intoronto1125 <b style="color:red; font-size:larger;">Talk</b> Contributions   23:33, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No, it really isn't. The event is notable yes, as are the sports taking place. But we're not the Games' official encyclopaedia and don't really need to include who finished 6th in an obscure race at some obscure event, or who scored the 5th goal of the 8th match at the football competition. This is way too much detail over what are a very small, little-covered Games, and this information would not pass GNG. Notability guidelines still apply. StrPby (talk) 01:38, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess you are right, but for football I think it is necessary. Intoronto1125 <b style="color:red; font-size:larger;">Talk</b> Contributions   01:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll just see what I can do. The games website doesn't give a lot of confidence that it'll be a very slick affair, so I suspect it's unlikely I'll be able to get anything as useful as a full list of results while I'm there. I'll probably go to at least one of the football finals so I'll focus on what photos I can get with my little compact camera. I won't add myself as an official particpant of the project for now - unlikely I'll be doing much more beyond this specific event. --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 09:58, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I mean, we should list the results for e.g. Athletics, like it was done here, for other sports we can do it different like Football, Basketball, Volleyball, Tennis... Kante4 (talk) 10:15, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That's about what I have in mind: a list of medal winners (left unlinked, since it's unlikely they're notable), and nothing more. 4th and onwards at such a small event really doesn't merit a mention. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 10:47, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * What I'm planning on doing is having every sporting event with their article, with the top three in each event shown, in a similar fashion to the 2007 PAG such as seen here. Team events (Football, notably) will have separate Men's and Women's articles with full results. That okay with everyone? Sellyme Talk 05:35, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That´s what i had in mind, too. Kante4 (talk) 19:35, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: If you could get a photo for every event possible (And possibly one or two of the bigger stadiums) that would be extremely helpful, as there aren't even any copyrighted pictures available, forget fair-use or public domain. I should be fine for results, though. Sellyme Talk 06:28, 18 June 2011 (UTC)