Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Museums/Archive 1

Launch
Hi! Welcome! I have no idea about a WikiProject so help is a *good* thing. Initial to-do list stems from my own: User:Travellingcari/Museums TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 17:03, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Scope
I noticed this projects banner being added to some of the articles I've started/edited about museums in south west England - is it OK for anyone to add the project banner to relevant articles? What is considered within the scope? does it include art galleries etc or just articles with museum in the title?&mdash; Rod talk 20:57, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Moved this to its own subheader as I think Scope is going to come up often. I've been manually tagging and then I asked SQLBot to help out with all the museum stubs. Any museum is within the scope and that includes galleries I would say. Feel free to add it to any galleries you feel appropriate, scope can narrow or widen as we see the need. Thanks for stopping by TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 21:02, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks I'll add it to Category:Museums in Somerset & a few others I've been involved, but on doing a few I've noticed that this projects banner doesn't nest! - see Talk:Haynes International Motor Museum for an example of what I'm talking about.&mdash; Rod talk 21:06, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a special way to make them nest? I thought project nesting was a separate template i.e: what's in use on Gary Sinise, or have I misunderstood your question? I tried to c/p it here but using nowiki broke it. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 21:09, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Take a look at Template:WikiProject Somerset there is a line of code {{#ifeq:{{{nested|}}}|yes| which I think is what does the business.&mdash; Rod talk 21:23, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Museums discussion from WikiProject Council/Proposals

 * Description : I am surprised there is not at present a WikiProject tying together these repositories of the world's knowledge, and there needs to be.


 * Interested Wikipedians (please add your name)
 * 1) Chris 07:44, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Bernstein2291 (talk) 01:26, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) John Carter (talk) 01:39, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Lquilter (talk) 21:02, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Aqwis (talk – contributions) 21:03, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) TravellingCari TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 16:41, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 7) LanceBarber (talk) 02:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Comments
 * There's been good work organizing the museums categories already, but I think this would be a great project. Suggested topics: individual museums; types of museums; history of types of museums; museum controversies (there are some great potential articles there); museums and pedagogy/informal education; museum funding (beef up IMLS, e.g.), museum associations, famous museum expositions/exhibits, technical museum exhibition-building (diorama is a terrible article), etc. --Lquilter (talk) 21:02, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The group has at least enough members for a task force. The question, I guess would be a task force of what? Maybe a joint task force of WikiProject Architecture and WikiProject History?John Carter (talk) 18:27, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm also very surprised that there isn't one, as I went to tag a couple of new articles and newly found one and realised we were lacking. I'm definitely committed to helping create and grow this project as I think there's a need for organization and coordination of content and needed content TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 16:41, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ETA this page has too much traffic so I'm not watching it but please contact me if this moves forward. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 18:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Project Created: WikiProject Museums I'm working on the rest of it.

Special Interest Areas
Does it make sense to add 'done' articles? I'm not really sure how to best tackle that. I'm going to work with SatyrBot for a ToDo list and SQLBot about tagging some other categories (I only had the bot tackle Category:Museum stubs as a trial because it didn't have a lot of subs) but what else to we need to do in order to tackle a to do and a done list? Personally, I tend to work at random. I stumbled across Category:Museum events and decided to work through that for a) tagging b) sourcing (my personal pet peeve, I hate unsourced articles) and c)expansion but I don't have a logical plan in mind.

Also thanks, all, for help in fixing various things. I don't think we're doing too badly for being less than 24 hours old :) TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 04:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * When the bot ran I don't think it found museum stubs listed by country eg Category:United Kingdom museum stubs or Category:United States museum stubs or those by special interest eg Category:Art museums and galleries stubs or Category:Aerospace museum stubs. If you are going to ask it to run again I think these & the other categories listed on the project page should be included - then there is just the massive task of assessing them all for both class & importance. Also, are zoos included within the scope of museums? &mdash; Rod talk 17:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Nope, it definitely didn't. I'm not sure how it picks up sub cats, or whether we'll just have to make a master list and feed it to the bot on a weekly/monthly/whatever basis. I asked SQL about that and will let you know what he tells me. In the mean time we'll just keep adding to the categories list. There are apparently bots that can assess based on previous assesments, which would definitely work for the stubs. I think we also need to work out what makes a quality museum article and then figure out assessing them. I know of some examples of comprehensive museum articles but I also know that realistically, the Garibaldi Memorial will never be on part with the Museum of Modern Art so I think we have to figure out too whether there might be criteria based on the size of the museum as well. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 18:44, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Categories and To-do sections
I added a few extra categories, and to-do items... for your review, comments, and or edits. Cheers. LanceBarber (talk) 07:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The To-do list includes "details of Project Class Assessment Scale criteria" this can't be changed by individual projects & needs to be the descriptors used at Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment although importance can be defined by the project.
 * I've added Template:Infobox Museum to templates
 * For a userbox - I've done a quick one at Template:User Museums project which gives anyone else is welcome to change colour schemes, pic etc.&mdash; Rod talk 09:29, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah I just saw you added that and was about to come tell you I 'borrowed' it. Thanks because I had no idea how to create one. In case anyone is curious, the project photo is of National Museum (Prague) (original here). It was a quick and easy choice because I took it so there were no licensing issues. Not attached to it and am definitely open for suggestions. Thanks also for the template. I'd seen it on a number of articles but didn't know where it lived. Anyone know where the one for NRHP (seen at Bartow-Pell Mansion, among others) lives? I know it applies for some within our world as well.

Proposed Scope
Very draft/WIP. I'd like some feedback before moving it over to the main project page.

The Museums WikiProject includes a wide-range of facilities worldwide that identify as museums. These are not limited to buildings, but may also include ships such as the Intrepid and USS Arizona (BB-39) (and? I know there must be other 'non traditional' museums, but I can't think of any at the moment and I know this is very US-centric at the moment). It also includes memorials and historic buildings (i.e. Historic House Trust) that identify or operate as museums. The Project is still in the process of identifying and tagging museum articles, but any Wikipedian is encouraged to add the templates and assess relevant articles.

Galleries, zoos, gardens? I say a clear yes to galleries but I'm less certain about the other two. Thoughts? FWIW I also see as we get more organized, the overall scope possibly ending up with some projects/task forces i.e. WP:AVIATION and WP:AIRLINES, etc. but I think we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
 * WP:MILHIST already has a semi-related task force: WikiProject Military history/Military memorials and cemeteries task force. -MBK004 18:16, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Notability Guidelines
anyone have any thoughts on this? I think the vast majority of museums are notable simply due to the fact that many have WP:RS coverage either within their subject, in academic journals or in the news. There may be issues with some really small collections in small towns, but I think those are the exceptions rather than the rule. Issues where I see them are:
 * niche organizations such as those in Category:Museum events, some of which have been deleted. They don't have RS coverage and seem to lack any sense of notability. Often, they're not consumer driven, which feeds the lack of RS coverage
 * same issues with Category:Museum companies, with an example of a now deleted.

Some are notable, but I think at some point as we get more organized, we'll have to think about this. Thoughts? TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 15:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Need for other language speakers....
I've realised when working through Category:European Museum of the Year Award winners tonight that we're really going to need speakers of other languages to help with some of the articles. Alta Museum had English language sources but Archaeological Museum of Alicante and National Heritage Museum, Arnhem had very little, making it hard to expand award-winning museum articles. To that end I've added a members' sub-section where people can note comfort with 2nd/3rd/etc. languages TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 04:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Archiving
31 days may be a little too frequent, lets go with 3-6 months. Some sections we may not want to archive... the Council signup.... discussions on assessments, guidelines, etc... unless we move them to the main page. Thanks, Lance...LanceBarber (talk)


 * I think the assesments, guidelines will go to the main page once we decide what exactly we want. Discussions on modifications can be brought to new sections in the talk was my thinking. The council signup is moot now, the member list is on the front page. My concern with 3-6 months is it will be far too long to be user friendly and the archive allows people to find previous discussions. Thoughts on that? TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 05:13, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Project sub-category
I have propsed a move of Category:Museums templates to Category:WikiProject Museums templates. See Categories for discussion/Log/2008 March 23. Simply south (talk) 23:41, 23 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't exactly understand this, but since it's probably something I stuffed up upon creation, go ahead and make the change. It seems as if the same info would exist TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 02:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't make the change, only an admin can. Simply south (talk) 03:07, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Draft importance levels
Below a first stab at importance levels. I thought it was best to discuss it here first. Feel free to edit/change/provide other examples.&mdash; Rod talk 09:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey you, out of my brain cell :-p I was just working though this on my train ride in. I think the high class is also the big museums in major cities. A good number of these are national museums especially in European capitals, but a number are just well-known i.e. MoMA in New York, Tate in London, Osaka City Museum....Below that it's a little fuzzier. For example, Beth Shalom when I found it going through the unassessed articles it had one sentence and it had been tagged for speedy in December. A quick Google determined that it's no V&A but apparently is a signficant museum, how do we classify those?


 * There's also a related issue -- Museum of Modern Art is an extensive article but as is pointed   out, it's still sorely lacking in a number of areas. I think it shows just so much we have our work cut out for us TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 13:39, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If no one has further comments on the table below shall I move it to the assessment dept at WikiProject Museums/Assessment & it can be further refined there?&mdash; Rod talk 09:41, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a good plan. I'm working through a draft to put in my sandbox of quality/peer review criteria, but don't really have anything to add to this TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 11:46, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

--

This page is a guide to assessing the importance levels of articles that are maintained by WikiProject Museums. There are four levels of importance that give an indication as to the priority of articles to this WikiProject, as opposed to Wikipedia as a whole.

The importance levels are Top, High, Mid and Low, and are assigned by adding |importance = level to the WikiProject Museums template on the article's talk page. A guide to the type of articles that should be placed in each category is given below, but these are not hard and fast rules. Any individual article should be assessed on its own merits. If you are unable to decide which importance level to use, please go to the WP:Museums talk page and leave a message there.

Remember:
 * Anyone can assess the class or importance of an article, you don't need special permission to do it.
 * If you feel that an article has been assessed wrongly, feel free to change it.
 * Any problems or questions should be left at the WP:Museums talk page, as that is monitored by more people that the talk page here.

Article Quality Draft
User:Travellingcari/Museums Draft in my sandbox since it's long and not pretty.

I didn't add any comments to Good Article + since I'm not sure that's clearly defined on a project-specific level but I added some thoughts to stub/start and B class.

Thoughts? TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 14:32, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Looking good - I would suggest linking to GA & FA criteria from the relevant sections. On pictures, in the UK Geograph is really good & all CC licensed so can be used on wikipedia - there is even a simple template image-number for adding them on upload which marks them for transfer to commons. There are a couple of comments eg "Avoiding POV" which are mentioned in one section but apply to all. A link could also be made to Template:Citation to help people not familiar with referencing.&mdash; Rod talk 16:23, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Also on quality... when we have more members & are more organised.. some projects have peer review mechanisms - until then probably best to point people to WP:PR - and also collaboration of the month (or week if enough active members) when everyone works on a particular article for a set period of time to bring it up to the next quality level.&mdash; Rod talk 16:42, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't forget to take advantage of the internal mechanisms in place with the other projects our articles will come under the scope of, especially WP:MILHIST if applicable, etc. -MBK004 16:44, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

All good points, thanks. I didn't know about Geograph, so I'm going to add that to the resources on the main page. I definitely don't want to re-invent the wheel as far as what MilHist and other related projects have done, and definitely need to think about collaborations and peer reviews. Everytime I think, 'oh I'm just going to quick assess a few' I end up re-writing. NYC Museums are in an awful state! TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 17:06, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

ratings
I'm going through and rating articles, you can help too, just go to the talk page, click edit, then add |class=|importance= and fill in the appropriate rating for the article and finish it! LukeTheSpook (talk) 20:38, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Indeed, Category:Unassessed-Class Museums articles was at 795 at the start of the day ant it's not at 691, we're on a roll. I'm going to ask one of the bots to assess all the stub class articles when we have the categories imported since that's the vast majority and then we can fine tune from there. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:25, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Huge Category List
Betacommand had his bot to run a giant list of all the subcategories of Category:Museums following this discussion. I don't think we should edit that list to have it remain bot!readable but I was thinking of generating a list of subcats to remove for irrelevancy (sp?) to the project. Once we finalise that I'll move it to a subpage of the project in case any one is *really* interested in just how big this is. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 03:45, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Candidates for Removal:
 * Category:XRCO Hall of Fame: porn entertainers and films, no evidence of museum connection
 * People associated with the X museum: thoughts on this? Some have notability issues but beyond that I'm not sure if we want to go that deep. Curators, definitely. People associated with? I'm unsure on this.

Other than that, I don't see many. Thoughts? TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 03:53, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Looking good, but we are going to getthousands of article to assess! Possible issues so far:

There may well be others this was just a quick(ish) scan.&mdash; Rod talk 08:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Category:American disc golfers - don't know why that is in?
 * Should "Hall of Fame" for sports or music people etc be in? Perhaps it just not a concept we use in UK
 * Surely Category:B-Class Museums articles & Category:FA-Class Museums articles & similar are already tagged?
 * Category:Bioinformatics databases - don't know why that is in?
 * Not all castles are museums (certainly in the UK)?
 * Category:Chemical databases- don't know why that is in?
 * Category:Classification algorithms - " " "   "   "  "
 * Category:Data mining   "   "   "    "
 * all the cats with "Database" or "Data search engines" in them
 * Category:Disc dogs !!!!*!
 * Category:Flying disc games
 * Category:Flying disc tournaments
 * Category:Frisbee
 * Category:Government databases & sub cats for countries
 * Category:Microsoft database software
 * Category:PostgreSQL
 * Category:Rush & associated sub cats
 * Category:The Wizard of Oz (1939 film)
 * Category:Tricycles
 * Should all the old buildings be included eg Category:Listed buildings & sub cats be included - many of these are in private ownership & have no public access or claims to educational functions?&mdash; Rod talk 10:05, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * OK so I missed more than a few last night. Note to self, no wikiing while tired. The only one that you mention that I think should be included is the HOF sports because (at least here in the US), they're museums as well. I think if we run across one that isn't we can remove the tag from that article. I agree on the listed buildings, I think those would get covered under NRHP (here in the US) and relevant projects for overseas buildings. THere's some overlap, but nt enough to need/want the whole category. And yes. the FA/GA are already tagged, as are museum stubs, he just had the bot run a list of all the subcats under Category Museums because I wanted to see what we were up against. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 11:55, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

More on this
I copied the list to my sandbox here: User:Travellingcari/Museums Cats so we can edit it and feed it back to BCBot. Feel free to direct edit. I've removed the ones we discussed above and a couple of other that are entirely irrelevant (see history as I created it with the full list). Also realized the full list didn't load for me last night which explains why I missed so many. I just found WikiProject Zoo which is semi-active and makes me think that we don't need to add all the zoos to this project since I think very few are actually museums. I think we can add individual zooos on a case by case basis if they have a museum component but I don't think we need the categories. I haven't removed those yet because I didn't want it to be a unilateral decision. Thoughts? TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 17:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

ETA: Aboreta? I don't think they're museums. I've also removed museum inductees as the people are not really in the scope of this and would be covered under another more relevant project. Feel free to re-add if you think I'm wrong TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 17:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

ETA 2: I think we've just learnt how much of a mess the category system can be! TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 17:48, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If zoos & aboreta are outside the scope (& I would agree they are) then should Aquaria & Aviaries be outside the scope as well? & what about Butterfly farms & Botanical gardens? Why is Letychiv included? & we still have Microsoft database software in there.&mdash; Rod talk 18:40, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Weird, the full list doesn 't regularly appear for me, I thought I'd rmved Microsoft but at any rate it's gone now. I agree on arboreta, etc and have removed all. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 18:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * More for consideration: Herb gardens, Herbariums, Hill forts, Castles, Mathematical databases, Object-oriented database management systems, Online databases, Palmetum, PostgreSQL, Public domain databases, Rjukanbanen, and Middle-earth castles and fortresses (I would get rid of all the castles & houses categories & add them individually if they are also museums).&mdash; Rod talk 19:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. I left historic houses, however, as it's primarily a US designation and those *are* museums, I removed the plain houses. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:21, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * OK - a few more which perhaps shouldn't be in there: Bibliographic databases, ?Byggnadsminnen (some castles but includes a VHF transmitter), Chinese city walls, Châteaux x2, City walls, not sure about Digital libraries, Document-oriented database, Fortified French châteaux, Gusuku, Inventory of Gardens and Designed Landscapes, Knowledge discovery in databases, Mathematical databases, not sure about Memory of the World Register, we have National Trust properties in London but not the rest of National Trust properties in England, Open access archives, Palmetum, Persistent programming languages, Royal Canadian Air Farce, United States zoos navigational boxes - feel free to reject any of my suggestions.&mdash; Rod talk 21:02, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Outdent for clarity. Took care of the above, partially by hand tagging the one or two relevant in the cat. Left planetaria because, and this may be a US thing, but most are in/associated with natural history or science museums. I don't know much about how the National Trust in the UK operates. I know when cleaning and tagging yesterday I came across a museum (the David Livingstone one in Scotland) that was operated by Trust of Scotland. Is it the norm or special case? TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 11:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Many NT properties are old houses (or other buildings) open to the public and including collections of artefacts or similar which I would have no problem including in museums, others are open areas of land, ruins etc where you might be lucky to get a display board & some do not allow public access egs Mow Cop Castle, Dolebury Warren, Crook Peak to Shute Shelve Hill none of which I would call museums. Perhaps I should volunteer to tag those which do fall within the scope individually?&mdash; Rod talk 12:38, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Makes sense, I think far more in the US are museums, leading to my confusion. I'm going to rmv the category and we can hand tag as needed. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 16:34, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been through the National Trust categories & hand tagged them. I see you've move the master list arising from this discussion & asked a bot to tag them. I would have liked to have finished the 520 left in Category:Unassessed-Class Museums articles first - especially identifying the 1 low importance article which hasn't been class assessed & the 2 start, 4 stub & 2 list which have not been importance assessed, as I can't easily identify these specific articles.&mdash; Rod talk 18:27, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoops sorry if I jumped the gun on that. I can probably ID those articles for you this evening/over the weekend as I know at least two of them. I think most are at my own hand from having tag issues. BCBot hasn't yet tagged the articles, and I intend to knock out most of the remaining un assessed this evening. I need to quit being distracted by fixing while tagging TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:00, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No worries I did find some of the half assessed articles - I'm not going to have time to do much more tonight - but I did notice loads of article with "The" in the title - some of these may be required as formal titles but others may require renaming.&mdash; Rod talk 21:46, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep I saw some of those, as well as sone that aren't in anything close to their proper name, not even tackling the non-English language ones. Going to give a run at more assessing. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 01:03, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Class?
Anyone good with assessment? I've tried to get it to display properly. Even when I add I still get unassessed. I think I broke the template. Anyone a little better at this than me? I know I can get a box to fix the assessment, but I think the template needs fixing first TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 21:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * works see Talk:Roman Baths (Bath)&mdash; Rod talk 21:26, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you need to create the categories first otherwise it doesn't work.&mdash; Rod talk 21:28, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * and John Carter did something to fix it too. I think he may also have fixed the nesting issue, I'm testing it now. Note to self: cobbling templates together via c/p doesn't work as well as I'd like TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 21:30, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

B-Class Review Criteria recommenation
Other WPs use the following for B-class, recommend we use the same:


 * B-Class-1=yes/no


 * B-Class-2=yes/no


 * B-Class-3=yes/no


 * B-Class-4=yes/no


 * B-Class-5=yes/no

Full template:

LanceBarber (talk) 22:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, does that get added to the museums template so that it's added automatically when an article is assessed as B class or is it added separately? TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 23:55, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The 11 lines are manually added to the template, select yes or no, and if all yes, then manually change the |class=B. The custom bot for the project template would have to be modified to check for any "no", and then create an category for that particular need. Now, to do the customization, I do not know that level. LanceBarber (talk) 05:00, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Museums as part of World Heritage Sites
Some museums that are parts of World Heritage Sites are ranked low, which means that they are "local museums" with very specialist interests. I think this should be a criteria of beeing a major museum and would help to separate the article bulk. Geo-Loge (talk) 22:25, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, I also think we may need to tweak the rankings slightly for special cases like those where they would be local/low interest if not for "thing X" that differentiates -- i.e. WH site or some other factor. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 00:51, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I found the Pergamon Museum which is part of the Museum Island in Berlin and Staatliche Kunstsammlungen Dresden which is enlisted in the Dresden Elbe Valley and has at least two museums of international relevance. Note that especially federal nations may not have one National Museum. Germany for example has a couple of state museums as there are the Berlin State Museums and so on. The Euromuse portal may also help to find museums to be ranked mid or high. Geo-Loge (talk) 10:55, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this - feel free to change class or importance where appropriate. I do worry though about things like Bath which is a world heritage site but museums within it such as the Jane Austen Centre or Museum of East Asian Art which don't really relate to the WHS should not IMHO be ranked highly on the importance scale.&mdash; Rod talk 11:03, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course not. The museum(s) should be stated as a part of the WHS and/or the importance of the museums, galeries and collections should be declared by the UNESCO's description. Geo-Loge (talk) 18:35, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It's some of the same issues with the Smithsonian Institution which is supposed to be the US's national museum, but while some museums, especially those on the Mall in Washington D.C are amazing, others are decidedly also rans. I don't think all of its subsidiaries are as highly rated as the Institution itself, or the big museums. The US is also much the same as Germany -- the Met and MoMA are right up there (yes, I'm NY biased -- running off the top of my head but I know there are others in the US -- Getty in LA for one) that are right up there in prominence and international interest, etc. I think what we all need to remember is that the ratings aren't set in stone. Someone else has caught a couple of mis rankings I did -- either due to more knowledge of the museum or local language information. I think this is to be expected. The language issue is one we're going to need to look at -- I found a bunch of Burma museums where finding information is going to be a challenge but it's hard to assess importance without it. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:59, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Even with our guidelines (which still need refining) & Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment assessment is a subjective process. I think the World Heritage Site status is a useful external arbiter but the may be other useful indicators eg winers of Museums prizes which I haven't taken into account yet. I'm happy to be eg I assessed Ascott House as "start" largely due to the lack of inline citations & others have put this up to "B". I think I may have been harsh on some of the importance rankings - but remember most of the ones we have done so far were the ones the bot added because of a stub tag - it will be interesting to see what we get when the bot runs again. The 32 left unassessed at Category:Unassessed-Class Museums articles are those I'm not sure are museums or have "The" in the title, or I otherwise found difficult to assess - If anyone wanted to finish those off that would be great.


 * I'm working on them, albeit slowly. My laptop is cranky today. I agree that it's subjective, and by necessity to some. A small museum may be crucial for the city's Project but of relatively low importance in the grand scheme of museums. I think it's going to be a learning process for us all. BCBot has started to run, nt yet finished I don't think. I've also pulled out some that were tagged as museums due to but I have no idea why they had that stub since they were not museums in the slightest. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 04:16, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Template Error?
Anyone know how to get the project template out of full italics? See Talk:Alcheringa Gallery for example, I don't think it looks as clear as Template:Project New York City TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 18:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Template:WikiProject Museums has the line style="text-align:center;font-style:italic;" removing font style should solve it (I think but I'm not an expert)&mdash; Rod talk 19:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * may not be an expert, but you're better at this than I am. Thanks! TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 04:03, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Getting another weird one. I assessed Category_talk:Law_enforcement_museums_and_memorials as a cat but it still returned as un-assessed importance. So then I tried NA, as the other banner on the article has done, but that didn't seem to work either. Thoughts? TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:52, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The template Template:WikiProject Museums includes the line |NA|Na|na= I think something eg "Non-article Museum pages" or "NA-class" Museum articles" put after the equals sign & then the category created.&mdash; Rod talk 21:51, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I'll look into that. I was trying to look at Template:WPLE, which works, but I don't really follow the codes. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 02:35, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've had a play & adding "class=cat" puts articles into Category:Category Museums pages&mdash; Rod talk 10:58, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hersfold fixed it! Thanks TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:59, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Historic House Museums
Shouldn't these be included? Grey Towers National Historic Site was tagged, then untagged eight hours later ... however I feel that this should have been left tagged, since it's in.

I am contemplating adding myself to this project since a) it's been needed for a long long time (and whither WikiProject Libraries? WikiProject Hospitals? I'm not starting them but the need is there) and b) I do so many out of working on WP:NRHP. I'd like to know, then, if this is about just the traditional kind of museum or if historic house museums are also included. Daniel Case (talk) 05:19, 31 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I definitely can see the need/use for those to be tagged. I'll go back and re-tag them later today. I know for a fact I've hand tagged the houses associated with Historic House Trust in NYC because I'm familiar with them and created a bunch, which was when I realised the need for this project. I was very surprised that there wasn't one -- didn't know there wasn't one for hospitals or libraries but I haven't done too much work in those areas. Welcome if you decide to join TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 11:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Historic house museums should be tagged, but historic houses not - in the UK you very tagging "listed buildings" which includes whole streets of private residences & all sorts off buildings - ditto castles. Architecturally-based categories should be avoided, just function-based ones. 12:00, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, none of the castles were ever tagged. I'm going to look at the other listed category you mentioned since I was 95% sure we removed all the 'listed' for the very reason you said. I think the vast majority of US historic houses that have articles here are museums, rather than homes which are still private residences or are in other use. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 14:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the clarification. You guys just got yourself another editor. As for historic houses, the NRHP listings usually tell whether a house is still occupied (Millard Fillmore's house in East Aurora, New York is still a private dwelling, like many other National Historic Landmarks. It's a call-it-as-you go situation. Those of us who work on these articles about subjects near us usually are in the best position to say. Daniel Case (talk) 20:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Draft guidelines for writing about museums
I've had a quick stab at starting a draft guideline for writing about Museums. It's a bit big to put here so its at User:Rodw/Sandbox/How to write about Museums - anyone is welcome to edit or comment on that page & then when we have consensus we can move it over to the project pages.&mdash; Rod talk 10:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow, thanks for that! I think it's good and comprehensive. A note on what I added. I think some curators may not be strictly, independently notable but their work within the context of the museum may be notable if covered in reliable sources. There are exceptions like Philippe de Montebello (although that needs massive! work) who's notable but others like Carol Enseki probably doesn't warrant her own article but is notable enough in the context of the museum to be covered, does that make sense?


 * I also added the National Register of Historic Places, because for some like houses in the Historic House Trust, that might also be more applicable. In some cases also, the building is as/more important as the museum, for example Cooper-Hewitt is housed in the former Andrew Carnegie Mansion, did I make that clear? Thanks again for this! TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 13:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for additions, I'm sure others will have more to add. In the UK some house owned by the National Trust for Places of Historic Interest or Natural Beauty which are open to the public as old houses I wouldn't count as museums - anyone else have thoughts?. Could we also debate the spelling of artefact (UK English) v artifact (US English).... &mdash; Rod talk 16:45, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've also just thought that visitor numbers should be included - but not sure whether this should go in lede, history or wherever?&mdash; Rod talk 17:07, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoops on artefact, I didn't know that was a UK spelling, sorry about that. Guess I never came acorss it when living in Australia, I recognised all the others and tend to use a few myself. We have some of the same issues with the houses that you mention, I think it's a case by case basis because some national register listings are museums, and vice versa, but not all. I happen to personally prefer the NRHP template to the museum one because it covers more information, but I also think the museum one could probably be expanded as well. Not sure on visitor numbers.. I think a trend probably makes sense in history connecting with growth of the museum but precise numbers are harder to find in 2ndary sources and then does it matter if we know the museum's attendance has increased from the founder and his brother in 1901 to 90.000 some years later, do we need precise numbers? I tried to tackle this very issue in Brooklyn Children's Museum but didn't have numbers for the whole history. I suppose that's my !vote for putting it in the history section TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 17:53, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps artefact should follow the spelling in the country the article is based in - perahps we need to include that in the guidelines? On visitor numbers.. in the UK stats are produced annually (I think where public funding is supporting the museum) see the Visitors Statistics from Association of Leading Visitor Attractions. Perhaps we should have a "resources" section on the project page which points to useful sites like this? &mdash; Rod talk 21:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * RE: artefact, I think that's a good idea since it follows the general Wikitrend (don't know if it's MOS) that centres/theatres are in the UK/Canada/Australia, etc. whereas centers/theaters are in the US, unless of course the proper name of the place differs. That's a good idea for the resources section as non-UK editors may not be aware of it. Some US museums publish official figures but I think they're solidly in the minority TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 00:18, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) As we have had quite a few members join since I originally proposed some draft guidelines for this wikiproject (see User:Rodw/Sandbox/How to write about Museums), would anyone have any further comments/edits or do people think these should be moved to the project space & linked from the main project page?
 * I think we're very close, if not ready to move it to project space. I'm having flaky internet connection issues at the moment so I can't check -- do we have the italicized ship names in there? TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 19:41, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * We do now&mdash; Rod talk 19:48, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

English or Local Name?
Two off hand, Centre de Cultura Contemporània de Barcelona and National Museum (Prague). The latter caught my attention since I couldn't find it under Narodni Muzeum, which I know it as since I lived in Prague. I know WP:UE says, "Use the most commonly used English version of the name of the subject as the title of the article, as you would find it in verifiable reliable sources (for example other encyclopedias and reference works)." However I think museums are known by their proper name, not necessarily a translated name i.e. El Prado Museo in Madrid, Reina Sofia in Madrid -- possibly The Prado but never Queen Sofia.... I think we as a project probably need consensus or whether we're going with the MOS on this one. Thoughts? TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 01:01, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think a project can decide that WP:MOS doesn't apply - what you can do is go to the relevant page i.e. WP:UE in this case and argue why something should be a special case.&mdash; Rod talk 11:06, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I see what you're saying. There are other articles like La Scala where they've had a version of this discussion. I think the application of the MOS is horridly inconsistent. I think it's also a proper name issue, most of us as English speakers don't refer to Venice as Venezia or Rome as Roma unless we have strong ties to the country, and in the case of Finland and Greece, I'd argue there are a number of Americans wh wouldn't recognize the native name. But for other places, it's less clear, we don't call Buenos Aires, "Good Air", nor do we translate Kyoto, Nairobi or some of the ridiculously long Welsh city names. The MOS can't be consistent where the English language itself isn't i.e. American city names in Spanish (Las Vegas, San Francisco, Los Angeles. Maybe we as a project should decide whether or not we think using the proper name is more encyclopedic. I wonder what the old encyclopedias did in this case. I stand by my reasoning that an English speaker who has visited/is going to a museum in a non-English speaking country will know the museum by its guidebook name, if nothing else. Thoughts? I think once we as a project decide we could present a cohesive discussion at UE. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:53, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * What can you mean by "ridiculously long Welsh city names" which WP does not translate? There are only 3 cities in Wales, for which English versions are used: Cardiff, Swansea and Newport. Most town names are also in English, and are rather short in either language. Johnbod (talk) 14:11, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Llanfairpwllgwyngyll for one, which is a re-direct from Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, while it has a shorter English name, the article title is the Welsh name. Wikipedia and the English language are not consistent so if WP:UE is followed to the t, which I don't think it should be, that one would need to change too. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 14:34, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That (pop 3k btw) long version is famous for being made up to boost the tourist trade. Most Welsh names are no longer than anywhere else's. Johnbod (talk) 15:30, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

This Cardiffian can't help feeling we're straying from the point. Travelingcari, the most commonly used English version preferred by the MoS doesn't necessarily entail an English translation. I'd argue that   'Louvre', 'Prado', 'La Scala' et al do meet that definition because they're foreign names with currency in English. So we have the article titles Louvre and Uffizi, rather than Musée du Louvre and Galleria degli Uffizi, because these are the more common forms in English usage. (Not that I'd have a problem with the latter two as titles.) Nobody – and that includes the MoS – is suggesting that these idiosyncratic names be translated literally. The Museum of the Meadow or the Gallery of the Offices, anyone?

This is still a worthwhile point to raise, though – look at something like Template:Rome museums, in which 5 of the museums listed are given their Italian names and 6 English translations. My feeling is that  the MoS principle should be followed (so Borghese Gallery instead of Galleria Borghese) except where translation wouldn't work in an English idiom (Galleria Nazionale d'Arte Moderna is not a museum of modern art as we know it, and nor is Galleria Nazionale d'Arte Antica one of antiques.) And yet, there's something about the ring of Galleria Spada that makes me prefer it to Spada Gallery... Ham 23:26, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Focus Articles
Periodically listing important articles that need attention here. I see it as a museum-specific version of WP:Cleanup. I'm not adding stubs or anything here that one person can do, but rather ones that probably need some collaboration, brainstorming or other thoughts...


 * Art museum, it's a mess and has been for some time. As someone noted back in June 2007, it's hodge podge of a list and an article, the list isn't comprehensive but doesn't seem to have any inclusion criteria. And frankly? The last thing we need is yet another list (see Category: Lists of museums, which I'm trying to flush of non list articles and sort better). Thoughts on what to do with what I see as a high importance article? I'm not even sure what purpose it serves. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 01:58, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Museum, the single most basic article for this project. Not in that bad of shape, but still needs some work. Could be a great article with focused effort. --Gimme danger (talk) 19:58, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Museums/Categories
Currently, a bot adds the WikiProject template to all categories listed in that page. I'm a bit puzzled, tho, what have all those Walks of Fame (Category:Hollywood Walk of Fame, for example) to do with museums? And is it intentional that articles like Mario Lanza therefore get tagged with the Wikiproject template? Isn't it overkill to tag every article on a person who's on some kind of walk or hall of fame with the WikiProject Museum template? --Conti|✉ 19:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that was an error on my part by not seeing a category that should have been removed. I saw your comment to BC here and am going to come help de-tag those which are people and not museums. I thought I'd caught all of them when we removed the other people in hall of fames, but apparently missed this one TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 19:53, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It wasn't me who made that comment, actually. :) Anyhow, thanks for the quick reply. As far as I can see, there are quite a number of "Hall of Fame" and "Walk of Fame" categories in that list, and I think that all of them contain numerous people. Removing all the templates again sounds like a lot of work, maybe the bot could help with that, too. --Conti|✉ 19:58, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Realised that after I hit 'save page' but figured it wasn't worth going back to fix since you'd figure out what I meant. Not sure whether a bot can do that as I don't know too much about their workings. There seem to be a couple of us working on it right now as I've hit a couple of edit conflicts. I think/hope we can fix this fast. As far as errors with new projects go, if I have to make one I'll take this one. Thanks for understanding. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * No harm done. :) Well, if a bot can go through a list and add templates, it can go through another list and remove the templates again (where that's still needed), too. You could create one and ask Betacommand to run his bot again. --Conti|✉ 20:09, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It's odd (but in a good way) that the bot didn't tag all of those in the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Some had been reverted before I got to them but others showed no history of having ever been tagged. Good idea, I'm going to make the list and ask Beta to do it when/if his bot has a moment. I didn't know bots could de-tag. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:16, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I share the above concern about List of Registered Historic Places in Foo. Not all NRHP buildings and sites should be considered museums. Thanks for looking into it! Katr67 (talk) 20:38, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Where would you like us to list suggestions for categories to re-evaluate/remove from the tagging process? This thread, or a different page? I'll add some here that seem like candidates. -- Quiddity (talk) 20:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Category:United States National Film Registry


 * Thanks for your understanding. I just made a sub category here and added your suggestion to the list. Please feel free to add others and accept my apology for not catching some that should have been omitted. Incidentally *all* of these categories are under Category:Museums from where BCBot ran the original start list, so it appears that master category needs some clean up TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Our category system terrifies me. I'll let you fix the deeper hierarchy problems ;) -- Quiddity (talk) 21:00, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Tag-cruft
Yet more banner-cruft! You have now placed your banner - right at the top naturally - apparently on all objects in museums, and art galleries. If this process can be stopped, it certasinly should be. Does your project contribute anything to these articles? It just makes you look like another bunch of timewasting crufters. Johnbod (talk) 20:29, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You'll catch more files with honey than vinegar... -- Quiddity (talk) 20:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * See below - I've learned in the past banner-addicts can't be reasoned with. Firm and repeated expressions of the disapproval most editors feel for excessive tagging may eventually get through. Johnbod (talk) 22:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I'm not sure what your issue is. I don't think we've had any interaction before but I'm not a 'banner-addict' and I see no evidence of 'firm and repeated' expression toward me or this project. I think it's unfair of you to paint all editors with the same brush. I agree with the additions you made to the master list, although some were never tagged in the first place. Like I said, I made a mistake and I've owned the mistake from the moment it was brought to my attention above and on Beta's talk page. Mistakes happen, we fix it. I don't see anything wrong with the general idea of tagging projects to a relevant project. To me it makes sense and is in line with the idea of categories. I still don't see what your issue is beyond the mis tagging, which I admit to and am fixing. Care to clarify? TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 22:54, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Does the project contribute to every single one of these articles? No, nor can it be expected to. Does the project seek to improve museum coverage? Yes, and I think we've had a good start doing it. You seem not to like banners, which is well within your right but think your comment is a little out of line by calling us 'timewasting crufters'. I care a lot about museums, their contents and want to improve their coverage on Wikipedia just as others are passionate about *subject x*. I do work on these articles, please see my contribs or those of anyone else in the project if you want proof of that. I don't think it's timewasting and I don't see any reason that the process should be stopped, nor have you provided a reason other than WP:IDONTLIKEIT TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:42, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Mis-tagged categories
WIP list of categories that should not have been tagged with the museums tag, going to feed it to a bot in the mean time, please add them here: Master list as of 22:41:22 Wiki time Category:Academics of the Courtauld Institute of Art Category:Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences founders Category:Alumni of the Courtauld Institute of Art Category:American art dealers Category:American archivists Category:Ancient Egyptian objects in the British Museum Category:Aozora Bunko Category:Antikensammlung Berlin Category:Antiquities of the Louvre Category:Aozora Bunko Category:Archivists Category:Archaeological collections of the Hermitage Category:Archives Category:Archives by country Category:Archives in Australia Category:Archives in Belgium Category:Archives in Brazil Category:Archives in Canada Category:Archives in Denmark Category:Archives in England Category:Archives in France Category:Archives in Germany Category:Archives in Ireland Category:Archives in Italy Category:Archives in Lithuania Category:Archives in Northern Ireland Category:Archives in Norway Category:Archives in Russia Category:Archives in Scotland Category:Archives in Senegal Category:Archives in Spain Category:Archives in Sweden Category:Archives in Switzerland Category:Archives in Trinidad and Tobago Category:Archives in Vatican City Category:Archives in Wales Category:Archives in the Netherlands Category:Archives in the United Kingdom Category:Archives in the United States Category:Archivists Category:Argentine archivists Category:Art curators Category:Art dealers Category:Art gallery places Category:Artist-run centres Category:Asian objects at the British Museum Category:Australian Football Hall of Fame Category:Australian Racing Hall of Fame horses Category:Australian art dealers Category:Australian curators Category:Austrian archivists Category:Aviation Hall of Fame of New Jersey

Category:Barberini collection Category:Baseball Hall of Fame Category:Baseball Hall of Fame balloting Category:Basketball Hall of Fame Category:Belgian archivists Category:Bernini sculptures of the Borghese collection Category:Bicycling Hall of Fame Category:Borghese antiquities Category:Borghese collection Category:Botticelli paintings in the National Gallery, London Category:Botticelli paintings in the Uffizi Category:Brazilian curators Category:British Ice Hockey Hall of Fame Category:British Museum directors Category:British art dealers Category:British curators Category:Byggnadsminnen Category:California adobes Category:Canada's Walk of Fame Category:Canadian Aviation Hall of Fame Category:Canadian Curling Hall of Fame Category:Canadian Football Hall of Fame Category:Canadian Horse Racing Hall of Fame Category:Canadian Lacrosse Hall of Fame Category:Canadian Medical Hall of Fame Category:Canadian Mining Hall of Fame Category:Canadian Motorsport Hall of Fame Category:Canadian Olympic Hall of Fame Category:Canadian Soccer Hall of Fame Category:Capitoline Museums collection Category:Classical sculptures in the Uffizi Category:Collection of Naples National Archaeological Museum Category:Collection of the Alte Pinakothek Category:Collection of the Ashmolean Category:Collection of the British Museum Category:Collection of the Carnegie Museum Category:Collection of the Czartoryski Museum Category:Collection of the Field Museum of Natural History Category:Collection of the Hermitage Category:Collection of the Metropolitan Museum of Art Category:Collection of the Museum of Modern Art Category:Collection of the Tate Category:Collections of Pinacoteca di Brera Category:Collections of classical sculpture Category:Collections of the Capodimonte Gallery Category:Collections of the Doria Pamphilj Gallery Category:Collections of the Galleria Nazionale d'Arte Antica Category:Collections of the Gallerie dell'Accademia Category:Collections of the Gemäldegalerie Alte Meister Category:Collections of the Kunsthistorisches Museum Category:Collections of the Louvre Category:Collections of the Museo del Prado Category:Collections of the Museum of Fine Arts, Ghent Category:Collections of the Musée d'Orsay Category:Collections of the National Galleries of Scotland Category:Collections of the National Gallery of Art Category:Collections of the National Gallery, London Category:Collections of the National Museum of Rome Category:Collections of the National Museums of Scotland Category:Collections of the Palatine Gallery Category:Collections of the Rijksmuseum Category:Collections of the Royal Museums of Fine Arts of Belgium Category:Collections of the Russian Museum Category:Collections of the Science Museum (London) Category:Collections of the Uffizi Category:Collections of the Vatican Museums Category:Collections of the Villa Giulia Category:College Football Hall of Fame Category:Cowboy halls of fame Category:Curators Category:Digital libraries Category:Directors of museums in Australia Category:Directors of museums in Canada Category:Directors of museums in France Category:Directors of museums in Russia Category:Directors of museums in the United Kingdom Category:Directors of museums in the United States Category:Directors of the Hermitage Museum Category:Directors of the Louvre Museum Category:Directors of the Metropolitan Museum of Art Category:Directors of the Museum of London Category:Directors of the National Gallery, London Category:Directors of the National Maritime Museum Category:Directors of the National Portrait Gallery, London Category:Directors of the Science Museum Category:Directors of the Tate Gallery Category:Directors of the Victoria and Albert Museum Category:Dutch archivists Category:Dutch art dealers Category:Dutch curators Category:Elmer Ferguson Award winners Category:Employees of the British Museum Category:Employees of the Natural History Museum Category:English archivists Category:English art dealers Category:English curators Category:Ethnographic objects in the British Museum Category:Exhibition designers Category:FIBA Hall of Fame Category:Farnese collection Category:Film archives Category:Film organization stubs Category:Football Federation Australia Football Hall of Fame Category:Ford Frick Award Category:Fortified French châteaux Category:Foster Hewitt Memorial Award winners Category:Fred Lawrence Whipple Observatory Category:French Horse Racing Hall of Fame Category:French Horse Racing Hall of Fame Category:French archivists Category:French art dealers Category:French curators Category:German archivists Category:German art dealers Category:German curators Category:Gold Coast Mansions of Long Island Category:Golf halls of fame Category:Greek and Roman objects in the British Museum Category:Gusuku Category:Halls of fame Category:Halls of fame in Canada Category:Heritage listed buildings in Melbourne Category:Heritage places of Western Australia Category:Heritage railways in Norway Category:Heritage railways in Scotland Category:Heritage registers

Category:Historic district contributing properties Category:History of the National Register of Historic Places Category:Hockey Hall of Fame Category:Hockey Hall of Fame employees Category:Hollywood Walk of Fame Category:Images of places listed on the United States National Register of Historic Places Category:Indian curators Category:International Motorsports Hall of Fame Category:Institutional repository software Category:International Boxing Hall of Fame Category:International Motorsports Hall of Fame Category:International Rugby Hall of Fame members Category:Iranian art dealers Category:Irish curators Category:Israeli curators Category:Italian American Sports Hall of Fame Category:Italian archivists Category:Italian curators Category:J. G. Taylor Spink Award Category:Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame Category:Korean curators Category:Lebanese art dealers Category:Library 2.0 Category:Lists of Heritage Sites Category:Lists of Registered Historic Places by state

Category:Lebanese art dealers Category:Library 2.0 Category:Lithuanian curators Category:Ludovisi collection Category:Members of the World Golf Hall of Fame Category:Memory of the World Register Category:Middle Eastern objects in the British Museum Category:Military Intelligence Hall of Fame Category:Music archives Category:Music halls of fame

Category:National Agriculture Hall of Fame Category:National Archives and Records Administration Category:National Aviation Hall of Fame Category:National Historic Landmarks of the United States Category:National Historic Monuments of Argentina Category:National Historic Sites of Canada Category:National Historic Sites of the United States Category:National Historical Parks of the United States Category:National Inventors Hall of Fame Category:National Lacrosse League Hall of Fame Category:National Register of Historic Places Category:National Register of Historic Places Multiple Property Submissions Category:National Register of Historic Places by state Category:National Register of Historic Places stubs

Category:National Sprint Car Hall of Fame Category:National Toy Hall of Fame Category:Nature centers in Tennessee Category:New Jersey Inventors Hall of Fame Category:New Zealand curators Category:North Carolina Sports Hall of Fame Category:Ohio State Varsity O Hall of Fame Category:Oregon Sports Hall of Fame

Category:Paintings by collection Category:Paintings in the Borghese collection Category:Paintings in the Uffizi by artist Category:Paintings of the Art Institute of Chicago Category:Paintings of the Hermitage Category:Paintings of the Louvre Category:Paintings of the Metropolitan Museum of Art Category:Paintings of the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston Category:Paintings of the Vatican Museums Category:People associated with the British Museum Category:People associated with the Courtauld Institute of Art Category:People associated with the Louvre Category:People associated with the Metropolitan Museum of Art Category:People associated with the National Gallery, London Category:People associated with the Tate Category:People associated with the Victoria and Albert Museum Category:Piliakalnis in Lithuania Category:Polish curators Category:Prehistory and Europe objects in the British Museum Category:Prints and drawings in the British Museum Category:Pro Football Hall of Fame Category:Pro Football Hall of Fame navigational boxes Category:Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame Category:Professional wrestling halls of fame Category:Protected Wrecks of the United Kingdom Category:Provincial historic sites of Alberta Category:Radio Hall of Fame Category:Raphael paintings in the Uffizi Category:Registered Historic Places by United States insular area Category:Registered Historic Places of religious function Category:Science Fiction Hall of Fame Category:Scottish Sports Hall of Fame Category:Sculptures in the Borghese collection Category:Sculptures of the Hermitage Category:Sculptures of the Louvre Category:Sculptures of the Vatican Museums Category:Smithsonian Institution people Category:Sound archives Category:South African National Botanical Gardens Category:South Korean curators Category:Soviet archivists Category:Spanish archivists Category:Spanish curators Category:Stanford Athletic Hall of Fame Category:Swedish archivists Category:Swedish curators Category:Swiss archivists Category:Swiss art dealers Category:Swiss curators Category:Tennis Hall of Fame members Category:Tire Industry Association Hall of Fame Category:Townley collection Category:Trustees of the British Museum Category:Turkish curators Category:Turner Prize winners Category:United States Hockey Hall of Fame Category:United States National Film Registry Category:WWE Hall of Fame Category:Walk of Fame of Cabaret Category:Web archives Category:Women's Basketball Hall of Fame Category:World Golf Hall of Fame Category:World Heritage Site templates Category:World Heritage Sites

TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:44, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Category:Archives Category:Archivists Category:Art curators Category:Art dealers
 * I added obvious ones to your list above - primarily just from the letter "A" - probably some of those need a single article tagged out of the whole category. The ones below your sig, are large parent categories that should probably be removed along with all their child categories, but I wasnt sure, (and the list is very long already, and I have no more time today). Hope that helps (noreplyneeded :) -- Quiddity (talk) 21:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks so much for understanding and help. I've added the ones you mentioned above to the master list, which I'm going to use to put in a request at WP:BOTREQ to fix this. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 21:35, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Discussion: There are way too many to name. Most of the articles you've mistagged have multiple categories, none of which has anything to do with museums. Why are you tagging articles that no editor has placed in a museum category? Please stop this. Thank youclariosophic (talk) 21:02, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The original list of categories came from the sub-categories of Category:Museums and after filtering the list, I believed I had removed all of those which did not relate to museums. I admit that I definitely overlooked a number of sub categories, but part of the issue appears to stem from the fact that these were originally sub-categories. I'm aware of the issue and trying to fix it. I do keep checking here in case anyone, such as yourself, has made a comment. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 21:10, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Note: on the castles of, etc. I knew I removed them the first go-around and they weren't on the main list that the bot used. A small sample seems to show these were never added (checked the history, it isn't that someone reverted them, (see Paphos Castle, Castle of Diogysor and Mir Castle Complex for three). I'm not sure how they landed on the master list to remove. I'm doing a side by side of the master so far and the one I just came up with to ensure it's complete. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 22:28, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm a bit confused by some of the additions to this list, too. The bot has only tagged articles that were in the categories listed at WikiProject Museums/Categories, right? If so, then we can/should remove all categories from this list that aren't on that list. I checked a few categories that are listed here but not there already, and none of the articles in them have been tagged. So, unless I'm missing something, those can be removed. --Conti|✉ 23:02, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That is assuming the bot completed its run, which it may well not have done. All the articles I tagged were from the botrequest list linked above. Have you checked that, and that the bot run is complete? Johnbod (talk) 01:08, 31 March 2008 (UTC) +


 * You're not missing anything. I'm not sure what User:Johnbod was using as a source when he added those but none of them appear to have been tagged. It's possible that there was an article that was in Category X and the castles, for example, and therefore was tagged, but the categories were removed per User:Rodw and my refining above and that's why they weren't tagged. Thanks again for your help. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 23:53, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * They were on the "giant list" linked above; if a different list was actually used you should link to that. Johnbod (talk) 02:06, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It used a different list, the one housed at WikiProject Museums/Categories and linked to in the title of this section. We removed a significant number of categories from that list, which is why I didn't understand your original claim or list additions -- now it makes sense. It was making me a little crazy because I knew I'd hand removed a lot of the categories. The 'giant' list was the one BCBot first pulled, all of which are currently child cats of Category:Museums. I guess that's taught us that the category is going to need an eventual clean up. We worked through the list and fed the bot a new one, which still obviously contained some errors, but not as many wrong cats. Glad we've figured this out. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 02:20, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Bot Request Made
I asked for help and when someone is free, we may get it. In the mean time, I'm working on this by hand. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 21:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)