Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music/Archive 7

Assessment
Are there any specific reasons why Template:WikiProject Music doesn't include all the assessment stuff that other WikiProject templates do? --Peter Andersen (talk) 13:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Flip response is because no one seems to have added them. If the members of this project were to indicate what specific kinds of parameters they might like to see included, particularly parameters for other Projects or groups which don't yet have assessments, I could probably set it up within a week or so at the outside. John Carter (talk) 17:58, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't seem to me to be very useful. WikiProjects on more specialized subjects like albums and jazz are more likely to have an assessment scheme, and I doubt adding the additional layer will benefit much. Any theoretical benefit that might seem possible is probably purely theoretical, as it would be mostly the same people reviewing. Tuf-Kat (talk) 21:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

New Wikiproject
I've created a new wikproject - Wikiproject free music. Anyone who is interested is welcome to join. Raul654 (talk) 17:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Sticking notation on percussion pages.
I edit a lot of percussion pages, and it becomes necessarily to notate the sticking. For example, in the diddle article, I mention five-stroke rolls, which have the sticking RRLLR. This notation of sticking seems both unencyclopedic and confusing, especially when more complex patterns come up. It has no indication of relative duration of the notes, and adding in more complicated rudiments such as flams, drags, and ruffs makes the whole thing completely confusing. For example, two consecutive flam drags can be notated as lRLLRrLRRL, but that can probably only be understood by those who are already familiar with the rudiment. Are there any suggestions to make notating the sticking of a pattern both more encyclopedic and more efficient? --Evan Seeds ( talk )( contrib. ) 08:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Dagon James
This article has been listed for deletion at Articles for deletion/Dagon James. Pairadox (talk) 02:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Brian Crozier (guitarist)
Could somebody take a look at Brian Crozier (guitarist)? It reads like a lot of the information is nonsense, but there's enough there to do some Google searching to verify that at least some of it is correct, but it really needs a lot of work, as well as sourcing. Corvus cornix talk  00:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I've reverted it to a one-para stub from the nonsense that was there before. Corvus cornix talk  00:24, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

AfD on SRV guitars
AfD on SRV guitars. Have a look and offer an opinion. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Jorge Ferreira
Could someone take a look at Jorge Ferreira? It makes the most astonishing claims I known not to be true. Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 21:48, 7 February 2008 (UTC) If anyone would like to take a look here, I've done a major overhaul but wanted some feedback before replacing the article. I hacked out most of the year-by-year/album-by-album stuff and mentions of non-notable musicians etc. I'm not too happy with my writing style—it's hard for me when I didn't write the material in the first place. If anyone wants to make edits to my re-write or leave comments on the actual article's talk page, I'd appreciate it. — Hello, Control Hello, Tony  16:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I started in on it. Phew! Plenty left that needs to be done. — Hello, Control Hello, Tony  20:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've seen it. Thank you for your time and patience! The Ogre (talk) 20:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Bands
Is there any wikiproject dealing with bands? If it isn't there should be one such as there is one for albums. There should be also some style guide for band article like one for albums because some articles about bands have bad/unprecise names, but for general purposes also.

Currently WP:ALBUM redirects to wikiproject dealing with albums containing guidelines and rules, while WP:BAND unfortunately redirects to more general notabiliti guideline for music, which is without proper enough guidelines for band articles and no naming rules for them. It would be good if this woud change.

Also why are there some wikiprojects for only one band, while there are sometimes (or maybe always) no wikiprojects for this band's music genre and there is no wikiproject for bands in general? --193.198.16.211 (talk) 13:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The only project relating to bands in general that I can think of is WikiProject Musicians. WikiProjects and/or portals related to specific bands such as the Beatles are begun by individual editors.  Hope that helps.  ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 16:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Still, there should be something like WP:ALBUM on wikiproject albums to reduce the mess. --193.198.16.211 (talk) 21:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, WikiProject Musicians is for bands. And I think you're right that WP:BAND should redirect there. Feel free to write the guidelines you're talking about. Copy them from the album page, and modify them to fit bands. Either add them to the project page, or put on a subpage labeled as a proposal, and get people to agree that they're useful. -Freekee (talk) 03:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I will do it. Guideline proposal is on WikiProject Musicians/Style. --Qsaw (talk) 17:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not planning on reverting the change, but A little more discussion in a broader forum probably would've been nice before changing the WP:BAND redirect. I've seen several editors, myself included, linking to WP:BAND as a shortcut to the notability criteria for the past couple weeks without realizing it had been changed with basically no input. --Onorem♠Dil 21:43, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've changed my mind after thinking about this more. WP:BAND is linked to more than 25,000 times, and I believe more discussion is needed before this change is made. --Onorem♠Dil 17:42, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Track listing template
After agreeing that some of the (sometimes strongly) fluctuating track listing layouts found across Wikipedia were somewhat less than ideal, a friend and I cooked up a new template. It derives most of its handling and design from navboxes, with standardized per-track parameters, such as title, length and (if desired) track-specific notes and writing credits, as well as optional header information for disc titles and general credits. It'd be great if some of you guys could give it a spin and comment on any missing features and other necessary improvements on the template talk page. - Cyrus XIII (talk) 15:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it looks great and will be giving it a whirl soon. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 16:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I like it too. Tuf-Kat (talk) 03:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

A long-standing dispute
I am here seeking help from editors interested in well referencing, music MoS but also checking POV instances - a kind of a general cleanup, for the following articles:


 * Master Musicians of Jajouka
 * Master Musicians of Joujouka
 * Brian Jones Presents The Pipes of Pan at Jajouka
 * Brian Jones Presents The Pipes of Pan at Joujouka (plus some other related ones if necessary)

You got the picture... Two bands dispute the authenticity of their existence; in other words guess who 'is' the real and authentic band! This dispute has been going on for a decade or so and for a couple of years here. Probably user:TUF-KAT is familiar with this issue if i am correct. In fact they both exist and play at concerts around the world but it appears that Wikipedia became a battleground for this dispute. For instance, this section (Brian Jones#Other contributions) is a total mess. No referencing, nothing! Totally unsourced. No single reader would understand, let alone believe in anything.

I tried to mediate this issue for almost 2 years but in vain. There is a clear conflict of interest (since both parties are directly involved with the subject of articles in real life) and it was violated in different occasions until i started using my admin tools.

I am in touch with both parties on and off-wiki and it seems that both are heading for an arbitration case. Anyway, since my mediation was not formal in essence i think the ArbCom would decline if this case is filed. I am therefore here to seek editorial help to clean up these few articles bringing them back to norms. Also, since one party refuses mediation for some particular reasons, i am thinking about restricting involved editors from editing those articles or at least apply 1RR and put the articles under probation.

Someone could help with detecting descripancies on those articles (there are plenty) and check references and reliable sources. I could help but due to my involvement in the mediation and the arbitration processes i can't or otherwise i'd have to recuse myself in case this goes to the ArbCom... unless the parties agree to my editorial help of course. Also, since i am not an expert in music (neither discussing its reliable sources nor being a good music-related artricles' editor), i though you guys know better. All details about the mediation can be found here. Thanks in advance. -- FayssalF  -  Wiki me up®  03:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Schools DVD
Anyone thought of archiving some of the above? Anyway I was going to say that the changes to the 2007 DVD Selection for schools to make the 2008 Selection have been proposed at Wikipedia_CD_Selection/additions_and_updates any feedback very welcome. --BozMo talk 21:22, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Notability of Albums
I have started a conversation concerning the notability of "unreleased albums". I invite everyone to take part in the conversation. Ridernyc (talk) 02:17, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

WP:BAND
And speaking of notability, WP:BAND now redirects to WikiProject Musicians, which deals with bands. It used to redirect to Notability (music). The shortcuts for that page are WP:NMG, WP:MUSIC and WP:MUS. Personally, I'm not sure why MUSIC doesn't direct to the WikiProject Music, but there you have it. I recommend using WP:NMG, which stands for Notability Music Groups, or something. -Freekee (talk) 02:55, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've reverted this change. Over 25,000 pages link to WP:BAND, and I'm assuming that most of them aren't trying to link to the WikiProject. I think there needs to be more discussion before this redirect is changed. --Onorem♠Dil 17:53, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, no one should ever change redirects to policies and guidelines. Ridernyc (talk) 18:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't WPP:BAND be a better redirect anyhow? (e.g. WP:MUSIC/WPP:MUSIC) — Hello, Control Hello, Tony  20:03, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Discussion: -Freekee (talk) 05:01, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Does anybody disagree that WP:BAND is a better name for the band project than it is for Notability of bands? I've been here for two years, and that name has never made sense to me.
 * 2) Onorem says that over 25,000 pages link to WP:BAND. How many of those links are current and would screw somebody up if the link was redirected? Does the You might be looking for hatnote cover it? How many of the links need to stay as they are for historical purposes? If they do need to stay, can they be changed by a bot?
 * the links being current have nothing to with the fact that archived discussions link to a guideline page.Ridernyc (talk) 07:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Is it inappropriate to change the name of a Wikipedia page because of archived pages linking to it? My opinion is that it sounds absurd. There's would be a hatnote saying "you might have been looking for," when someone is seen to say fails WP:BAND #3 in an archived deletion discussion, it will be quite obvious what they're talking about. But regardless of the answer to this specific question, there are several more lumped together with it. -Freekee (talk) 01:50, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you going to go through the archives and change all the links in the thousands of discussions that use WP:BAND. Someone recently tried to this with WP:PLOT and it was unanimously rejected by the community. If you are serious about this I recommend taking the discussion to WP:RFD. Ridernyc (talk) 05:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

This has happened before (I forget where). An easy solution is to make the shortcut for the wikiproject to WP:WPBAND. Rider is right though; the old link has to be preserved for the archives.  &mdash;Torc.  ( Talk. ) 05:55, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * IMO, WP:BAND should remain directed to Notability (music) as it always has been. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 03:52, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Someone tried to do it with WP:Plot, they actually took it to RFD and it was unanimously rejected, I tried finding the actual discussion but I got tired of looking and I don't think we really need to find it. If this ends up at RFD I'm sure the result will be to not change the redirect. Ridernyc (talk) 06:26, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

How can I merge album articles?
It has been stated by Ruhrfisch at Peer review/Harry and the Potters' split 7" with the Zambonis/archive2 that each individual album by Harry and the Potters is not notable enough due to a lack of independent, reliable sources and asked whether it is worth merging the albums into one article. I am supportive of this and I am sure there are other album articles similar to this which could be merged into an article. I have not seen one on Wikipedia however I have seen it suggested atleast twice before. I would strongly appreciate if anyone could show me an example of such an article. Thanks! Hpfan9374 (talk) 07:05, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

New Percussion WikiProject
For all interested parties, User:Kakofonous and I have started a percussion WikiProject. All input is appreciated! -- Evan ¤  Seeds  07:15, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Musical artist template "awards" parameters discussion
We could use more input on the suitability of including a collapsible "Awards" section in Infobox Musical artist (similar to what already exists in Infobox actor). The discussion has kind of stalemated. / edg ☺ ☭ 00:35, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Call for peer review
Hello everyone, I would kindly ask you to help review the Metamorfoz article, as you are experts in music-related articles, your suggestions and improvements would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. --Teemeah Gül Bahçesi  20:02, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Al Bell
I need assistance in expanding this article. Bell was a very important figure in American soul music history]], and one of the key figures behind Stax Records. --FuriousFreddy (talk) 01:49, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

George Lowden guitars
appears to be a lift from the co's website. Anyone feel like rescuing it? --AndrewHowse (talk) 21:00, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Band Nationality in Introduction
I should like to suggest an effort to modify the introductions of each band from the United States of America. Most of them start off saying something like: "(band name) is an American (genre) band from (town, state), formed in (a year)". The problem is American is too ambiguous of a term. It does not simply suggest being from the United States of America, rather it suggests from being anywhere in the American continent(s). Saying "AFI is an American rock band", does not explicitly suggest AFI is from the United States of America, rather it is from the American continent(s). Therefore, I suggest an effort be made to change introductions to something more along the lines of: "(band name) is a (genre) band from (town, state), United States of America, formed in (year)". Or something else if someone suggests something better. Bands should not be referred to American though. Rather as from the United States of America.Dale-DCX (talk) 23:40, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Music-related articles of unclear notability
Hello,

there are currently about 100 articles in the scope of this project which are tagged with notability concerns. Based on a database snapshot of March 12, I have listed them here.

I would encourage members of this project to have a look at these articles, and see whether independent sources can be added, whether the articles can be merged into an article of larger scope, or possibly be deleted. Any help in cleaning up this backlog is appreciated. For further information, see WikiProject Notability.

If you have further questions, please leave a message on the Notability project page or on my personal talk page. (I'm not watching this page however.) Thanks! --B. Wolterding (talk) 12:44, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Discography Format Problem
by Langdon (talk) 21:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)i7114080 In Carrie Underwood discography, Omghgomg and I argued about formats. I've held a mini-vote on this, but Omghgomg didn't approve, and he used excuses to persuade me not to change and keep his formats. Those things are really personal, but I think we need discussions to unite the formats.

Here are some examples: (The examples are all correct, and they contain all information needed.)

Album notes
For this one, there isn't a result after mini-vote. I would say a lot of discographies use #1, but I don't think that's good. The label will repeat so many times. This is what I've said the other day about release date: "we can briefly know when a album is out by looking at the year column. month and date is not very important because most country artist do not release 2 albums in the same year. it is not really necessery. and, do we have to do the same thing to singles too?" In country discographies, #4 is usually used, and it is simple. If the artist had more than a record label, we usually use a column like #2 to show. Example: Reba McEntire discography

Certifications
About this one, of course the right one is more comprehensible.

Dashes
"—" denotes releases that did not chart. "blank" denotes releases that did not chart.

There are a lot of arguement on this one. Please see Talk:Carrie Underwood discography

Album positions
In most country discographies, we use the right one.

Featured Sound Nomination and participation
Hey all. Whilst trawling through wikipedia i cam across the Featured sound page. I noticed that there was a significant lack of regular participation in this process. At the moment there are only 15 audio rerecording that have reached featured Status and I was wondering whether it would be possible to get more involvementfrom people interested in music and also generally audio recordings so that the best audio on wikipedia can be truly appreciated. I hope to you participating on the page more often and that a greater community consensus can be formed here. Seddon69 (talk) 18:37, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

assist?
For the purposes of infobox song, is a song's "style" the same as its "genre"? —  pd_THOR  undefined | 21:16, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep. Precisely. Couldn't put it better myself. -- rm 'w a vu  13:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

OK a test for all music lovers...anyone heard of these bands?
Manual Scan and Bob karwin have alot of tags. Can anyone help out? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Bridge
The article Bridge (music) could use a lot of work. The article has some length, but doesn't explain the main topic very well. Also, it has several dozen attribution/citation tags peppered throughout. Anyone up for this? CRGreathouse (t | c) 20:25, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Jeong-Hyun Lim
Does he meet notability?...Jimbo[online] 17:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * NPR + New York Times coverage? Yeah, probably passes. — Hello, Control Hello, Tony  18:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Discographies
At the risk of blatant WikiProject advertisement, I thought I'd let everyone know about the new Discography WikiProject. There's been alot of scattered discussion about discography style as of late (some of which has happened on this very talk page), so I hope this project can act as a central hub for those discussions, and once consensus is reached, to provide a style guide of some sort. Anyways, take a look and stuff. Drewcifer (talk) 07:04, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Is this a Hoax?
Billion dollar bonner - seems like it but I'm not that familiar with the genre, help appreciated. Guest9999 (talk) 10:53, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd say that was pretty clearly nonsense. Flowerparty ☀ 10:57, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

assessment needed
is the article entitled Pop music supposed to be about a genre of music or about popular-record-chart trends? the way it now stands, it seems both mistitled and strongly POV-ish/judgemental; and meanwhile, it would be very good to have an article that's genuinely about the genre known as pop. thanks Sssoul (talk) 09:47, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Categorization
I'm not sure what to categorize List of Elena Paparizou awards as. Anyone know? Thanks, Grk1011 (talk) 18:28, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Good article icon
A proposal to add a symbol identifying Good Articles in a similar manner to Featured ones is being discussed: see Wikipedia talk:Good articles. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 19:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Vancouver, British Columbia meet-up
Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 15:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Zeroin
Assessing articles for the Italy Project, I came across Zeroin who appear to be one of those borderline bands - a few releases self-published and on what appear to be minor labels, but not on a major label. I know when I don't know enough to make the call, :-))) but the fact that they don't merit an article on it.wiki suggests to me that they're not notable and should be AfD'd. The article has been tagged for notability for six months, but nothing's happened on that front. While I'm here, does anyone fancy taking a look at the offshoot of Eiffel65, Bloom 06? Another article I've come across via the Italy Project that could do with a bit of a tidy up. FlagSteward (talk) 15:35, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Please have a look at WP:Wikipedia:Record charts
It calls itself a style guideline; is it? Do you guys consult it? Does it need work? We're doing a sweep, putting all the style guidelines into the "Wikipedia style guidelines" category. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 05:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Vital articles
Any editor with a broad knowledge of music is invited to take a look at Vital articles and offer suggestions on how to improve the list of 1000 vital Wikipedia articles, as well as on the process of choosing them. It suffers from a severe lack of attention and POV editing. &mdash; goethean &#2384; 01:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

About a certain music group
I noticed this when I was editing Zipper (disambiguation). Who are "The Zippers"? It doesn't even appear on the List of Bemani musicians page, which it redirects to, yet it links to other places. Help here? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:06, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That's a mess. Dance Dance Revolution also links to The Zippers, but it's a piped link reading Jenny Rom, which also doesn't show up on the page. Not only that, but "the zippers" doesn't really need to be on the "zipper" DAB page. Nobody's going to accidentally link to "Zipper (disambiguation)". Nuke it. -Freekee (talk) 02:02, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I take part of that back. It is still a mess and still needs to be fixed, but "The Zippers" would be a valid term to put on the "Zipper" DAB page. If it were a real band. -Freekee (talk) 15:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Hoax?
I've got at least one guy at the page Freddie Mercury Duets 08 who is claiming the whole thing is a hoax, but I have no way of confirming this. Would someone here look into this please? I would apreciate it. Thanks in advance. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Song lists
One night I was watching a music channel which had a video medley of two songs. I got to thinking of other songs which might do well as a medley but with a word in common in the title. I had also watched something else, can't remember what at the moment, which made me think of "Like a Prayer" by Madonna. So, thinking of other songs with prayer in the title, got me to also think that there might be a list of songs by keyword on Wikipedia then thought again knowing that lists like those more than likely didn't exist. However, the idea stuck with me as I searched my music collection for other songs with prayer in the title.

Now, does anyone think that lists like those might be useful? I have a sample of a keyword entry for you to give thoughts about. If you think that it is useful, I could move that page to this project for you to work on. If not, I will just get the page deleted. - LA @ 10:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Cue deafening silence. :-)) Cute idea, but I suspect folk think they've better things to worry about - and probably doesn't really belong in Wikipedia anyway - see WP:NOTDIR. If you want to continue the idea for your own amusement, try Google searches like this one - just with praying you missed Geogre Michael's Praying for Time, as well as the bands Praying Mantis and Praying Hands; I won't even begin on the "Prayer" songs! You could perhaps mention it over on the Songs Project. FlagSteward (talk) 13:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)