Wikipedia talk:WikiProject NASCAR/Archive 1

Template Suggestions
Anyone out there? If so, howdy, new wikipedian here. This WikiProject seems to have been left vacant, but if not, I propose a standardization, based on what I've found in the Formula One WikiProject. I would suggest the usage of templates, to standardize the various pages, with the following templates suggested as starting points. First, an info box on each track page, with the F1 example here, and what I suggest following, proposed standard on left, current "standard" on right:

The only thing I don't like about the example on the left, is the jumble that is the Major Events. Perhaps limiting this to just major series, and adding details of each series' races in the article. That would resolve the unfortunate red-link syndrome happening, as each race does not yet seem to have a page.-slowpokeiv


 * I prefer the right example for cleaness and ease of finding the information you are looking for. I'd remove the caption on the image, but otherwise I prefer it to the box on the left.--Anorris 13:07, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

3rd template suggestion
Hi all. I've just recently joined this Wikiproject, but I'd like to submit this infobox to the right for your consideration. Please let me know what you think of it on its own and compared to the other two entries. If you like to see how it would look in an article please visit New Hampshire International Speedway.Gateman1997 20:41, 30 August 2005 (UTC) 


 * Looks good. I've got a few minor suggestions/ideas/comments. First off, I like the heading formatting, (Current dimentions, etc...) that does alot of good to break up the information. On that note, does seating capacity really merit its own header? (that is, should it be bunched into the facility statistics.) Second: I don't know of a single NASCAR instance of a track owner not being a track operator, and as such, I would suggest removing one of the variables, for redundancy sake. (I would, however, wait at least a week, as if there is a case of the two being seperate, I'm sure the good folks in this WikiProject will be quick to correct me.) Third, also redundancy related: as the majority of tracks this template will appear on will still be in use, and the fact that a second template could easilly be created for former tracks, I would suggest removing the closed and demolished variables. Lastly, once the old templated pages are brought up to date, I would suggest renaming this template to standardize with the rest of the wikiproject templates, but again, I love what you've done. To sum up (as I have the tendancy to be long winded):
 * Love the new template
 * Move seating_capacity to Facility statistics heading
 * Remove redundant variables:
 * operator
 * closed
 * demolished
 * change name to NASCAR_racetrack or something similar
 * Feel free to take as many or as few of these suggestions as you wish, but no matter what, keep up the good work! -slowpokeiv 15:07, 31 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I believe you're right about the closed and demolished variables. I doubt any tracks that will be tagged with this will be closed and we can always add it at a later date. The capacity is debatable since this can be used for courses like Indy that have many different capacities based on the type of racing which would look cluttered in the stats section. As for Owner/Operator I know of at least one track where they aren't the same (NHIS) has a different listed owner and operator.Gateman1997 17:38, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Champions list(s)?
Would the list of champions be best listed on each division's main page (eg: on Nextel Cup, Busch, and Craftsman Truck)? Options as I see them:


 * Leave all champion lists on their respective series pages. (Status quo)
 * Create a page with all three lists on it, potentially called NASCAR Season Champions, and move all champ lists to that page.
 * Create three pages, one for each series, potentially called List of NASCAR Nextel Cup Champions, etc....

My current thought is option number two, as leaving them on the respective pages might make those pages a touch too cumbersome, but the minor series don't really have enough champions to require their own pages at this time. Any other ideas? -slowpokeiv 15:14, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * If we're going to do a combined list (which I'm not yet persuaded we need), the Modified division (NASCAR's oldest) ought to be included. Bugs Stevens and Richie Evans and Mike Stefanik deserve a place in this reference work more than some Truck (and even Busch) champions.  (For example, I like Jason Keller but he hasn't generated the broad notability-beyond-own-niche that Evans and Stefanik did.)  To avoid such arguments about keeping Busch/Grand National North, Winston/Grand National West, etc. in the combined list, I'd suggest we just leave them separate.  Barno 00:55, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Standards Discussion
OK, there are a few of us now, high time for there to be a discussion of what standards should be. At this time there seems to be 5 main Categories:


 * Tracks
 * Races (including former races)
 * Series (ie, NEXTEL, Busch, Truck)
 * Drivers
 * Teams

I'll set out my suggestions for each, as a starter for discussion, please, add as much as you can. :)

Tracks

 * Should have the infobox in it, with some sort of illustration of the track. (Suggestion: actual photograph is better than logo, but logo is better than nothing.)
 * Should have a detailed encyclopedic history of the track.
 * Should have section for all current major races, NASCAR and otherwise. (Does anyone know if there has been a discussion of what a "Major Motorsport Series" is?)
 * Should have section for all current track records, NASCAR and otherwise.
 * Should have an "External Links" section, where links to the track and other relevant links can be placed.
 * Should have appropriate series templates at bottom. (NEXTEL, Busch, Truck, and others if appropriate)
 * Should have proper categories in place.

Races

 * Should have race infobox in place, with race logo, when available.
 * Should have listing of winners.
 * Should have encyclopedic history of important races.
 * Should have encyclopedic history of race changes.

Drivers

 * Ideally, should have driver photograph.
 * Ideally, should have car photograph.


 * Suggestion: Creation of a Driver info box template with the following in it: (Borrowed heavilly from F1 infobox, as starting point)(example using Rusty Wallace)
 * Name
 * Birth Date and Place
 * Hometown
 * Car Number (logo of said number?)
 * Team
 * Races
 * Is this practical, as after every race, 43 articles would require updating?
 * Championships
 * Con: Vast majority of drivers would not qualify.
 * Pro: Very important if has been attained
 * Number of Wins
 * Minor Con: Would require 1 update after each race.
 * Pro: Very important if has been attained
 * Top Five/Tens
 * Con: Would require 5/10 updates per race.
 * Pro: Important if has been attained
 * Pole Positions
 * Important stat?
 * First race
 * Again, important stat?
 * First win
 * Just as important as First Race
 * Last win
 * Just as important as First Race
 * Last race
 * Last race reserved for former drivers
 * Last year's Championship Position
 * Best Championship Position
 * Possible replacement for Championships entry?

Is there anything missing? For that matter, is there anything not needed?
 * Could we include the picture as part of the infobox, similar to the way its done with the Presidential Infobox? --Anorris 13:14, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * I would like to, the only problem with that, is that it requires a picture on every page, something I'm not opposed to, but is lacking in most of our driver pages. -slowpokeiv 15:28, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's not entirely true. If you add it to the taxobox, just add the variable as a blank value each time you call it.  In other words, just add image = | to each infobox that doesn't have an image, and it will still display fine.  I did this for Template:Infobox Baseball Stadium.  See Arlington Stadium for an example without an image and The Ballpark in Arlington for an example with one.  R ADICAL B ENDER  &#9733;  02:42, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

Teams

 * History is a must. (creation of team, etc...)
 * List of current/former drivers.

What else?

Much of this is already in articles, yet much more is not, and most of it is not across the board. My intention is simply to open discussion on what should be in a NASCAR article, and to discover what is/isn't important to include. I have intentionally added things that I don't think should be in, and probably left out way too much, so please, if you think it should/shouldn't be there, say it now! :) -slowpokeiv 5 July 2005 20:12 (UTC)

On the driver page, how about we only list races won. i.e. Carl_Edwards. I've started doing that. The narration is still valuable, but a simple list of races won is nice. We can break it down by series. --edgester July 6, 2005 01:35 (UTC)


 * I'm of mixed opinion on a full list of races won. For a newer or lesser driver, the list would be more than managable, but take for instance Rusty Wallace (55 wins), Jeff Gordon (72 wins), or even the king, Richard Petty (200 wins). Not saying that a list is a bad idea, just that one might want to be cautious before adding that to the standard. -slowpokeiv 7 July 2005 14:53 (UTC)

Tobacco advertising
Anyone want to do a write up about NASCAR Winston Cup in the Tobacco advertising article? I would, but my writing skills (and knowledge of the pre-2002 NASCAR era) are somewhat limited... -slowpokeiv 18:37, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Already did the day before I found this project. If anyone wants to help out, please do, I did a simple writeup on it and uploaded the Winston Cup logo. --Anorris 12:57, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

Pole Positions
Quick Question: Despite Bud's insistance, when all is said and done, Are Poles important/notable? As such, is it worth noting, except for the reasons of statistical completness, that Richard Petty had 123 poles? Yes, that's a fact that one can't take away, but does anyone care, and as such, should it be included? -slowpokeiv 13:39, 14 July 2005 (UTC) (addendum: OK, Richard Petty was a bad example, as having the record number of poles is notable, but a better example: Does anyone care that Dale Earnhardt had 22 poles, or is it that we care about his 76 wins and 7 championships? -slowpokeiv 13:43, 14 July 2005 (UTC))
 * I think they should be included in the interest of completeness --Anorris 13:00, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Poles are probably the third most prestigious stat, behind championships and victories; probably more notable and more widely discussed than top-ten finishes, even though top-tens are much more decisive in winning championships. Please keep them.  Also, that's a category where NASCAR records are complete in the "modern era", and nearly complete (unlike "laps led", for instance) going back to the founding years.  Barno 00:42, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, seeing that both Anorris and Camccamant (by insertion of said info into Jamie McMurray) deem poles noteworthy, only question is how to add it to the box. Again, using Rusty Wallace as example, I propose and vote for A, with the logical alternative B next to it. I feel that A is not only easier to read, and saves some space, but places emphasis on current statistics, and results. -slowpokeiv 20:19, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I vote for A. In my opinion it looks much nicer than B and, as slowpokeiv said, places emphasis on the statistics. Those three stats are perhaps the most noteworthy of a driver's career(except for championships). DomRem 21:50, July 26, 2005 (UTC)


 * I like A also, it just looks more proportional to the structure of the box Srcrowl 03:33, August 5, 2005 (UTC)


 * Could it be an option to include "highest finish ever" if someone had never won? -Jcbarr 04:37, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

NASCAR Britney Spears Drivers
This article has just appeared - and a related NASCAR Mandy Moore Drivers. Smells like a hoax - but I know nothing about Britney or NASCAR. Can someone who does verify this or let me know, or VfD?? --Doc (?) 22:04, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Seems to have returned under, a similar IP address. This one added "Music Teams" nonsense to Jeremy Mayfield and Kyle Petty , both of which I reverted, and created a page named Team Britney Spears. I don't have any previous experience with VFD, but if I can figure it out I'm putting it up for deletion.  Dom Rem | Yeah? 03:50, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, 207.161.33.170 has done the same type of vandalism to Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, Kasey Kahne, and Jeremy Mayfield on 13 July 2005. Long story short, the BS and MM articles mentioned above were deleted on 20:42, July 30, 2005 (UTC) by an admin. I don;t know who (other than 207.161.*.*) Has a beef against NASCAR, but I guess that's all part of having an open source encyclopedia. -slowpokeiv 18:21, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Not again! Has revandalized Kyle Petty and added the same crap to Kurt Busch under . Should we list this in WP:VIP? Dom Rem  | Yeah? 21:39, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Dunno, as the IP has changed, I don't know how much we can do... Best I can suggest, is keep track, and rv as much as in required (rv is easy.. Annoying, but easy...)-slowpokeiv 22:30, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Note: also same junk to Jeremy Mayfield and Jimmie Johnson, already RVd all four pages. -slowpokeiv 22:33, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

--Golfhaus 13:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Notability?
What is the definition of notability, in the NASCAR world? I pose the following points as to my definition, in my definition, any of the following are enough for notability.
 * Series Champion (eg: Kurt Busch as 2004 NEXTEL Cup, Brian Vickers as 2003 Busch, etc...)
 * Series Rookie of the Year.
 * Winner of a race.
 * Top Ten race finish.
 * Has qualified for a Pole Position.
 * Currently racing in any of the three majors series. (NEXTEL, Busch, Truck)
 * Death on track. (Morbid, yes, but there is a Category for it...)

Any further ideas/comments are requested. -slowpokeiv 14:19, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Kyle Busch, not Kurt. Kurt won a Truck title.  Barno 00:58, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Those seem good to me. Maybe another one to add would be an obscure fact about them that would make them notable. For example, H.B. Bailey was not very successful as a NASCAR driver. But, he was the driver to make a qualifying lap for the Brickyard 400. That's just an example, and it would have to be something very earthshattering in order for it to qualify(so it wouldn't be, first driver that cheated on a geometry exam, etc.). Also, I think perrenial fan favorites would be good enough(e.g. J.D. McDuffie, Kirk Shelmerdine) even if they haven't dominated the sport. --D-Day 13:04, 31 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmm, sounds good, one more criterion (to restate your comment) would be unusual trivia. (Who was the first driver to take a qualifying lap at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway?) Re: McDuffie, even though he never won a race, he had 106 Top Tens, and a pole, so would qualify as noteable there. Re: Shelmerdine, is technically a current racer, so could qualify there. In my mind, he would also qualify as crew chief for 5 of Dale Earnhardt's Winston Cup championships, so maybe we should add Crew Chief of NASCAR Champion? While we're at it, Owner of NASCAR Champion? -slowpokeiv 18:31, 31 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Ah, didn't think of that. I had a hard time thinking of independent drivers who are/were wildly popular with the fans, so those two sprung to my mind. I do like the idea of Owner/Crew Chief of a NASCAR team, and I hope we can get bios of former teams on here as well. Obviously, we don't do long-gone teams that didn't do much(Buz McCall's #96 team for example), but Junior Johnson's and Junie Donlavey's racing should be worthy of their own article. --D-Day 12:54, 1 August 2005 (UTC)


 * How about Team Owner's? I see Hendrick Motorsports and Roush Racing both have pages, I was thinking about adding a Gibbs page, maybe a Robert Yates Racing page, are they notable enough? I think "Joe Gibbs Racing" is referenced on at least 9 wiki pages, and their is a mention of his racing team on the Joe Gibbs page (mostly devoted to football.) Srcrowl 03:21, August 5, 2005 (UTC)


 * I made a Joe Gibbs Racing page on August 9. Just stub-length right now, but it's a start. --Golfhaus 13:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Notable Teams
I saw on the tempalte info for the car owners that notable teams that are closed down are deserving of this template. Just for reference, what does count as a notable team? --D-Day 18:07, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure myself, but I guess very well-known teams could count. Definitely a team that won a championship could make use of the template. Actually, now that I look at it, the template isn't really suitable for former teams(since it has a list for current drivers). Possibly we could make a similar template for former teams? Dom Rem  | Yeah? 01:15, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll look into it. I'm not experienced in the way of creating templates, but I can see if I can work any magic. Speaking of templates, thanks a ton for fixing the Evernham template for me. --D-Day 12:02, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, I just finished the template. Have a look and see what else can be done. Template:NASCAR former team --D-Day 13:39, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The template has officially been posted. You can find it at Travis Carter Motorsports. --D-Day 11:01, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

NASCAR former driver
I've seen the variable Years_In_Cup show up, and all of a sudden, I'm thinking, that's not a bad item to add to the template. One more I might suggest: Total_Cup_Races. Any other notable statistics that are missing before I add them? -slowpokeiv 23:55, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I put the Years_In_Cup Statistic on there, in case you're wondering. I was also thinking top-5 finishes and money won would work too.

--D-Day 13:05, 31 July 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, finally got around to adding Poles, Years_In_Cup and Total_Cup_Races, not 100% sure if the template is "done" (well, more 75-95% sure it still neads "tweaking" of some sort...) What does everyone think? (BTW, great job on the Owner Infobox, all involved!) :) -slowpokeiv 01:04, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Rookie of the Year listings
How do we want to represent (inside the drivers infoboxes) the Rookie of the Year listings? The reason I ask is probably nitpicky, (I have a bad habit of that) but I would like a standard across all pages, and I'm not quite sure which line to put. The examples I can think of/have used are as follows. My main Concerns are for: Any ideas would be great, I can't say that I've formed an idea yet, other than I want a standard. -slowpokeiv 22:46, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Readability (how it looks in the box)
 * Clarity (of definition, to both NASCAR nuts like us, and to "rookies", for lack of a better term.)


 * Well personally, I love the current template for the Nextel Cup Rookie of the Year listings, and I would have added them when I did the Busch Series and Craftsman Truck Series listings, but I didn't want to make a mistake and mess up the entire article.(Which I seem to have an unfortunate habit of doing). So that would work. If you visit the article now, you'll notice that I've set up a couple of more asteriks for how that driver performed during that season(i.e. declared, did not run full schedule, still eligible). This is really one of the first comprehensive NASCAR Rookie of the Year listings I have ever seen, so it's really hard to follow an example. If we could somehow find a way show the statistics of the drivers(winners only, for spaces's sake) that would be good. I'm just throwing out ideas and seeing where they fall. --D-Day 13:11, 31 July 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, I gues I'm getting confused now. I do like what's happening with the NASCAR Rookie of the Year page, especially the asterisks. (my comment might be to have other symbols for the double & triple asterisks, but still, *s are better than repeating what is not required) My question was, when on each driver's page (for example, on Rusty Wallace or Scott Riggs, what should their "award" look like, ie, should we spell out what NBS stands for, or is a link to Busch Series good enough? Should we include NASCAR, or is it clear enough without having to spell it out? Most important, do we have to say Winston Cup rookie of the year, or in the abscence of that, is it to be assumed to be the premier series? -slowpokeiv 18:00, 31 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Let's see. I think a good idea for the driver's page would be just to have Busch Series. If someone without much knowledge of NASCAR comes along, they can just click on the link to find out more. I'm not sure about having to say Winston Cup ROY though. I know the article title was confusing because it was assumed it would contain info about every series and not just WC. I'd say, until someone comes with a better idea, let's just have it pointed out.

--D-Day 18:39, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

NASCAR's 50 Greatest Drivers
I hereby nominate being selected as one of NASCAR's 50 Greatest Drivers an award worthy of notation in a driver's infobox. In the abscence of any "Nay" votes, I am also adding it to each of the 50 boxes, when they exists, using the following statement: Named one of NASCAR's 50 Greatest Drivers (1998) Any objections, speak now, else, will continue in said course of action. -slowpokeiv 16:33, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong support. I'll add that link to the Richie Evans article.  It already includes the fact but without the wikilink until tonight.  Is there a category or template for these 50, or should we consider creating one?  Barno 01:05, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Owner/Team Templates?
I was just wondering if there should be templates created for car owners and/or teams. If so, things to be included should be year formed, races won, etc. --D-Day 20:34, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Great idea. I think it should be very basic on each owner page for NEXTEL Cup, Busch, Craftsman that lists (in this order):


 * Logo of team/company
 * Racing Series
 * Owner Name(s)
 * Car Number(s)
 * Drivers
 * Car Type (Dodge, Chevy, etc)
 * Primary Sponsor
 * Shop Location
 * Link to homepage (Unsigned comment by User:69.134.50.153)

I support this. Oh, and just to state the obvious, don't forget wins/championships as well if this is created. Dom Rem | Yeah? 00:30, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Would wins/championships be too much for the box? ie Hendrick? 69.134.50.153 00:50, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, wins would be pretty hard to keep track of, but championships shouldn't really be a problem. Dom Rem  | Yeah? 01:03, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Here is a possible example for the NASCAR Owners Infobox.

I've put it live on Robert Yates Racing so you can see how it looks on a page. Please adjust size/add things/etc. 69.134.50.153 01:10, 21 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Once the image is in the box, it will widen the box out so the text won't go to the next line. 69.134.50.153 01:18, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Looks pretty good right now, although I think the logo should be before the Owner. Dom Rem | Yeah? 01:21, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Done and done. Let me add it to a team like Hendrick that has a lot of things going on.69.134.50.153 01:32, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok, added infoboxes to Robert Yates Racing and Hendrick Motorsports articles so everyone can see what it will look like one a team with only a few cars and on one with A LOT of cars/drivers. If someone could add the logos, that would be great. Everyone should take a look and give input before we make this a standard.

By the way, looking at List of NASCAR teams, there are a lot of teams that need articles.69.134.50.153 01:48, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm removing the 250px from the template; as you can see on the Hendrick Motorsports page, this is too big for some logos. Dom Rem | Yeah? 02:29, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not very experienced with templates, so I just replaced it with . Dom Rem  | Yeah? 02:33, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Adjusted the size of the box a bit so that it looks a lot better on Hendrick Motorsports page, but still looks really good on a team's page that doesn't have as much going on (Robert Yates Racing.69.134.50.153 17:31, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Talk Page Template
I created the NASCAR-tasks template that you can add to your talk pages. Please have fun with it and update it as tasks on it get completed.Wikipedianinthehouse 18:40, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Car/sponsor configurations
Hey, everyone. I've been working on a possible way to list car/sponsor/team/etc. configurations. I mocked up the way it would look for Mike Bliss below. It's more code-heavy than I'd prefer (but this seems to be the only way to get anything done properly sometimes), but I'm trying to find the best way to display all of this information.

Any comments? Even if it sucks, I'd still like to find a good way to display this info, rather than just stating some of this info in the intro.

One problem I'm noticing already, is that the table doesn't look as well when it's constrained by another table aligned to the right...which is why I keep writing to push the table down a little bit.

R ADICAL B ENDER &#9733;  23:00, August 21, 2005 (UTC)


 * Good looking table. I'm confused about what page(s) this would be used on.  The driver's page?  To show the driver's driving history?  Wikipedianinthehouse 15:57, August 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes. That is correct on both counts.  R ADICAL B ENDER  &#9733;  17:32, August 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me then. I'd put a title at the top of it ('Driver's History').  The box can go at the bottom of the article so it will not interfere with any other boxes. Wikipedianinthehouse


 * I see two problems. First, space It may not be very nice to older computers, especially ones with slow internet hook-up. Second, it looks a little confusing to add onto a page. So you might want to work on those two problems. Other than that it is a very good table. Keep up the good work. --D-Day 16:52, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Article Photos
I was wondering if anyone knows of any websites where we can get pictures for the articles. I tried earlier, but I ran into some copyright issues. So if anyone knows where we can get them without facing copyright problems, that would be appreciated.

Here's some standards I am suggesting for what photos go where: [list]
 * Driver-Driver, car(s), any other significant events/places/things.
 * Owner-Owner, car(s)
 * Team-Car(s), Team headquarters
 * Track-A photo of track will be just fine
 * Crew Chief-Photo of crew chief, most significant car, any other significant events/things/place.

Any others?

--D-Day 16:52, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

/Related Pages
Just created the /Related Pages page, an idea I ran across due to my involvement in the Wisconsin WikiProject. Long story short: link all related pages on this page, and then you can click on this link to quickly find out all changes to any of those pages. Thought it might help. -slowpokeiv 22:10, 31 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks, slowpoke! This will come in handy! --D-Day 22:15, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

NASCAR main page
OK, new project: Upgrade NASCAR to Featured Article status. Needs some work, esp. in the sources area. (per the Peer Review) I think that this is very do-able, seeing the very few negative comments in the PR, so here goes.

First question I pose, can anyone prove the following:

NASCAR's headquarters are located in Daytona Beach, Florida, although it also maintains offices in Charlotte, North Carolina, Mooresville, North Carolina, Concord, North Carolina, Conover, North Carolina, New York City, Los Angeles, Arkansas, Mexico City, and Toronto.

Headquarters, yes, are in Daytona Beach. Any sources for the rest? (NASCAR now, not just teams...) -slowpokeiv 16:50, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Top 10's vs. Wins
I have a question about wins vs. top 10 stats. Do top10's count wins too. I updated Mark Martin (NASCAR) page for the Banquet 400 with the win total, but not the top 10 stats. Can someone shed some light?


 * Yup, anything from 1st to 10th place counts as a top ten. Same situation, anything from 1st to 5th counts as a top 5. Long story short, Mark Martin gained a win, Top Ten, Top 5, but obviously, the most important part of that was his victory. -slowpokeiv 03:24, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Use of Photos from NASCAR.com
I have noticed that most of the NASCAR-related photos on Wikipedia are from NASCAR.com. Most of them are owned by Autostock and don't fall under any of the blanket fair use categories. Are we using these photos legally? --TantalumTelluride 02:51, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure. JaySki allows them to be used as long as credit is given, but I'm wondering if that works. --D-Day 16:13, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm not 100% sure either, but I'd wager a guess that it should be considered fair use as long as the following two criterion are true:


 * The material must contribute significantly to the article (e.g. identify the subject of an article, or specifically illustrate relevant points or sections within the text) and must not serve a purely decorative purpose. (from WP:FU) (case by case evaluation is required)
 * The material that is posted on NASCAR.com is considered Publicity/Promotional photos, not an unreasonable assumption.


 * Case in point: The image that is currently on Daytona International Speedway (Image:DaytonaInternationalSpeedway.jpg) I would consider promotional, that is, NASCAR does not expect to profit from said photo, except for promotional purposes. (eg: people seeing photo, recgonizing the track, and going to the race, as opposed to buying a copy of said photo.) As it alos illustrates Daytona, I believe that it does qualify as fair use, despite it not being in a blanket category. That, and as RadicalBender, an administrator, seems to agree, as they uploaded said image, I would think that it should be OK. As always, if you can find a copyleft a copyfree image, that is preferrable, but lacking that, it does appear that properlly sourced, fair use images are appropriate. -slowpokeiv 22:31, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the input. Most of Jayski's photos are from other sources, so he doesn't have the right to grant permission for us to use them. (He does grant permission for others to use his original material with citation, but he doesn't have much more than copied stories and raw data.) The image of Daytona International Speedway is copyrighted by Autostock, which is a stock photography provider that relies upon income from the sale of its photographs to paying websites like NASCAR.com. I don't want to cause any problems, but I doubt that Autostock would consider our use of their photos fair use. The same goes for the other major copyright holders in this field: Getty Images, The Associated Press, HSP, and various televivion studios. Nearly all of the NASCAR-related photos on Wikipedia are copyrighted by stock photogrpahy companies that do not produce photographs for promotional purposes but with intentions to sell them. Using the Daytona photograph as an example, neither Autostock nor NASCAR.com has interests to promote Daytona International Speedway. An Autostock photographer produced the image to sell to NASCAR.com, which is in turn using it to lure viewers and ultimately sell advertisements on their website. So, does Wikipedia have the right to reproduce the image in its article on Daytona International Speedway without permission? --TantalumTelluride 00:31, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Here is an image site with NASCAR photos. Their images are borrowed, and they claim no identity as to their copyright status, which isn't a good sign. But if anybody can look into this and see if they can be used for Wikipedia, that'd be great. --D-Day 23:46, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

ARCA
I just created an article for the ARCA series. Hopefully with time, it'll evolve into a project like this one. In the mean time, I'd appreciate it if anyone could contribute to the article and its subseries. Thanks. --D-Day 16:13, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Crew Chiefs
I was just wondering, does anyone ele think that a team's crew chief(s) should be listed in the NASCAR Owner Infobox template?--D-Day 22:57, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

NASCAR former driver — revisited
I was looking at the NASCAR former driver template, and I saw one thing that was glaringly missing: fields for death and place of death. For drivers that are still alive, you can always put a dash in the field. Think death data should be added? — Dale Arnett 19:07, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


 * That doesn't sound like a bad idea. --D-Day 20:23, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


 * My only concern, is that it would not be needed on living driver's pages, and it is not that hard to create a new template. As (I think) the majority of NASCAR drivers with articles are still among the living, i would reccomend creating a 3rd template, and calling that template NASCAR deceased driver or something like that. -slowpokeiv 23:39, 4 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Ask and ye shall recieve. I just created it. You may view it at J.D. McDuffie. --D-Day 22:29, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

User WP NASCAR
Just created new template/user box for y'all, so be a proud NASCAR WP supporter! (if you want...) -slowpokeiv 18:25, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

--D-Day 17:08, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Templates
Is there a way that the driver templates can be made more friendly to the drivers who DON'T run Cup? --D-Day 18:05, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm, my questions: Why? and: Do you have an example of a driver in mind? To many, the Busch Series is a minor league, and as such, should not be in the template. The same could be said about Truck Series. That, and as soon as we include those two, we would have to include stats for all three on all 3 templates. (somehow, a tic-tac-toe style grid does not endear itself to me...) Also, I know of very few drivers that were successful in NBS or CTS as their career. (main exception: Jack Sprague .) If it was important, I suppose that we could use subst: to substitute it, and then change the headers to reflect either NBS or CTS... -slowpokeiv 17:54, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, we can take a look at Ricky Craven or Ted Musgrave, who have been successful in just about every top series in NASCAR, that was part of my line of thinking. In fact if there was a template for NBS or CTS, it wouldn't even have to be part of the current one, just make a template for each series, although that is not the most efficient way. --D-Day 18:11, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 *  How about a stats only template? Or, how about reducing the current three to only vital information (name, dates, etc..., and create 3 stats templates, along with a close template. Main problem: would need 2 different stats boxes for each box, as "Last race" is dependant on if they are current or not... (In otherwords, 10 different templates?...) So to make a long story short (too late), no easy way to do it... Easiest way might just to use subst: for the individual instances, and modify the infobox on a case by case basis. In other words/examplification: (-slowpokeiv 19:27, 27 December 2005 (UTC))


 * (Post Note: If anyone has a better idea, I'm all ears...)


 * I've done a mock-up of the NASCAR former driver template converted to a Busch Series driver template on the Ed Berrier page.


 * Doesn't look bad at all. -slowpokeiv 19:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Suggested New Page
My family is taking a trip to Daytona USA (a NASCAR museum of sorts) soon, and I was hoping to see what sorts of attractions they might have since I have never gone before. However, an article has not been created, and I do not have the information to create an article myself, so I was hoping it would be added to the TO BE CREATED list on the page. --Marudita
 * I've added it to the WikiProject NASCAR To-do list as well as Wikipedia's requested articles. --TantalumT e lluride 16:13, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I wasn't sure how to go about doing so myself. --Marudita

Goals
I added text to the first goal, tying the standards we're developing to WP's broader ones. It seems obvious, but it might help newbie fans, and the rest of us when we get overzealous, remember that we're here to make racing articles good in the ways we're trying to make WP good. We're NOT here to make WP like our favorite race-fan site, nor to promote our own favorite guy. (I've also added content to some articles since I discovered this project.) Barno 06:04, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

SOURCE: Stock Car Racing Magazine
SCR was a great source of documented history and news from the mid-Sixties until Dick Berggren's team left in the Nineties. See my note in the To-Do List's talk page for a list of drivers and teams who I know had feature bio's. We need someone with hardcopies, and there's not even an article index for those years on the SCR website. Barno 01:21, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Notable suppliers
Do we want to add/expand a few of the most notable suppliers whose innovations affected NASCAR racing, such as:
 * Vic Edelbrock Sr. (lost a 2005 AfD vote)
 * Ralph Moody
 * Smokey Yunick
 * Maynard Troyer (NASCAR Modifieds)
 * Bill Simpson
 * Dick Moroso

? Barno 01:28, 11 January 2006 (UTC)