Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 10

Game log standard
A few things I'd like to ask:


 * 1) Are years always omitted in the Date column?
 * 2) Under the Opponent column, do we use the team name or city?
 * 3) Under the Score column, do we use Away–Home or ''Points for–Points against"?
 * 4) Are the players' first names omitted under the high points/rebounds/assists columns?
 * 5) Where are the appropriate places to link an arena?  The first occurrence in each month?  The first occurrence in the entire template?

— LOL T/C 07:09, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
 * To add on, repeated links are likely to occur for players and teams. Chensiyuan (talk) 10:26, 1 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Here are the answers:


 * Yes.
 * Definitely the city, as there might be some people not familiar with team names.
 * Points for-points against. The first score is the team's score.
 * Yes.
 * First occurence each month, as other months are hidden.


 * I hope I could help. ●  8  ~  Hype  @ 16:15, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

For Item 3, I think is should be W/L indicator, then the winning team's score, losing team's score. Such as: "W 95-93". That's the style used in Wikipedia MLB game logs (2008 Baltimore Orioles season), college football (2008 Alabama Crimson Tide football team) and basketball game logs (2007–08 Ball State Cardinals men's basketball team) and also what is used on espn.com. — X96lee15 (talk) 00:29, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Omission should be okay.
 * Discussed before -- nba.com alternates between city and team name.
 * No opinion.
 * Didn't somebody just say omitting one part of a name inconveniences readers?
 * No opinion. Chensiyuan (talk) 03:41, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'm hoping to:
 * 1) omit years.
 * 2) use city names.  It's a split between us, but cities are used in the schedules of NBA.com and ESPN.
 * 3) use W/L per WP:COLOUR, and then points for–points against.  Although ESPN uses winner–loser; NBA.com, CBS, and Yahoo! use for–against.
 * 4) not omit first names.  It'd make things inconvenient or complicated, so I'd rather just not do it.  I don't think a few missing characters are worth it.
 * 5) link all arenas except for the team's if it's already been linked earlier in the month.  Players will always be linked because the same player isn't always found at the top of the month like home arenas are.

Any major problems? — LOL T/C 22:46, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Nopes. Chensiyuan (talk) 01:31, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me too. — X96lee15 (talk) 02:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Just omit first names, and it's fine. ●  8  ~  Hype  @ 08:26, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd rather not omit them; see my reasoning above. — LOL T/C 02:23, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Second LOL. Chensiyuan (talk) 02:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

One last thing (hopefully): If there is a tie for the high points/rebounds/assists category, do we want "n-way tie (x)" or "Player 1, Player 2, ..., Player n (x)"? I'm just about done, so if there are any major problems with the five specifications above, please discuss them soon. — LOL T/C 05:08, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

This is what I've been able to produce. If there are no major problems, then I'll start applying this format to all thirty game logs and perhaps previous seasons' game logs later. — LOL T/C 04:12, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Just a note - I see the Boston Celtics season game log (08-09) has been changed to include full names - as per this formatting consensus. The only thing is that it seems a bit cluttered/more messy/congested even with one name, let alone when there are 3, 4, or 5 names listed for a tie in high rebounds for example. For that reason, I'd object to the change/formatting consensus - any great justification? ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk)


 * Having only the last name is ambiguous for the general reader unless they hover over the link, which is inconvenient. However, if the consensus on this matter changes, I can quickly re-format all the tables that currently display first names. — LOL T/C 02:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Good explanation. I guess for example T. Allen and R. Allen for Tony and Ray Allen are not so clear for the general reader. Thanks for that. ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 02:33, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If having only last names is ambiguous to the general reader, then so is having first name-last name. If a person does not follow the Boston Celtics and doesn't automatically know who "Garnett" refers to, they most likely don't know who "Kevin Garnett" is either. Shamedog18 (talk) 20:40, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Just to expand on my last point, if you're going to make the argument that having last names only is ambiguous then we'd have to list the opponent by city and nickname, as well. How can you assume that the general reader who can't make the connection from "Garnett" to Kevin Garnett can make the connection from "New Jersey" to New Jersey Nets? Shamedog18 (talk) 20:43, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Not knowing "Kevin Garnett" is not ambiguity, but simply ignorance, which we can't help. The ambiguity becomes a problem if a reader takes "Garnett" as Marlon Garnett, for example.  This particular case seems unlikely, but I'm more worried about players with less common last names like Brown, Jackson, Johnson, Jones, Williams, Wright, etc.  As for the opponent team names, I can add those in; however, game logs are somewhat technical, so I think we may assume that the reader is familiar with the 30 NBA teams but not the hundreds of NBA players. — LOL T/C 21:10, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I suppose you're right, but the only other thing I'll add to the debate is that these game logs are really only used on teams' season pages. Those pages (as far as I know – it at least applies for this season) all have rosters on their pages. Wouldn't that simply be enough to imply that let's say "Garnett" correlates to the Kevin Garnett listed on the team's season page? Shamedog18 (talk) 21:45, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's true that the roster can help, but because the roster changes throughout the season, it's not 100% reliable. For example, if Shaquille O'Neal is traded for Jermaine O'Neal, there's going to be a problem.  We can't assume that editors will always refactor the game logs when a transaction occurs. — LOL T/C 21:59, 19 March 2009 (UTC) P.S. The Knicks have the only game log in which I haven't found any factual errors so far; keep up the good work! :)

Cite for 1970 realignment?
I've been working on New York Knicks seasons to bring it to FLC, and one thing stands in my way: A reference for the NBA's realignment in 1970, more specifically the Eastern Division becoming the Eastern Conference with the Atlantic and Central divisions. My Internet searches have proved fruitless, and I don't have any books on NBA history that would cover this. With that in mind, I want to know if anybody here has a book that can be used to cite this information, or if there's a reliable website that I missed. I would appreciate any help.  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 20:36, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The latest NBA Encyclopedia says this on page 174: "The new season [1970-71] brought with it expansion teams in Buffalo, Cleveland, and Portland and a new wrinkle: the advent of four divisions, two in each newly formed conference." The final standings tables in the encyclopedia also show a change from the Eastern and Western Divisions to the conference/division setup. Zagalejo^^^ 22:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Put this in the category of "Wikipedians think alike": Right before this was posted, I found a season recap from 1970-71 on NBA.com with the same quote. I ended up using that, along with a page from the Knicks' website. Thanks for the effort!  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 23:37, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Cities producing the most NBA players
Would appreciate it if I could get some help in completing this list List of Cities producing the most NBA players. -- GateKeeperX (talk) 19:08, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * How are you determining which cities produced which players? By where the players graduated from high school? Zagalejo^^^ 20:27, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, by High School. I got the list from the article referenced at the bottom. (Unless, you guys want to it by something else like birth place) -- GateKeeperX (talk) 21:16, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You should consider renaming the list to specify that you're neglecting international cities. matt91486 (talk) 05:33, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Is it current players, or all-time players? — X96lee15 (talk) 05:50, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it would have to be all-time to be encyclopedic. Otherwise, the list isn't really manageable. There should be a minimum threshold perhaps, as well, maybe 3 players or something. matt91486 (talk) 19:31, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to remove "inactive" column from depth charts
As I was updating the Sacramento Kings depth chart, I got to thinking that the "inactive" column really isn't necessary. By adding it, we're combining two different views (depth chart and inactive status) into a single chart. The problem I see is that for Sacramento, Kevin Martin is inactive, but he's listed as the #1 SG. So if we move him to the inactive column, then move everyone else over a slot, then that makes Quincy Douby the "starter", but then he didn't even play in the game. So I think we should remove the inactive column from the depth charts and have them match the data that is on espn.com — X96lee15 (talk) 16:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If Martin is injured, just add an injured sign after his name. If Douby hasn't played, then he is not the backup SG. It's just a matter of sorting things right. If we remove the inactive column and Martin is injured, somebody would think we just forgot him or he doesn't play for the Kings anymore. ●  8  ~  Hype  @ 09:41, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Playoff qualification on season articles
Since the templates use colors to highlight the team on its own season article, I suggest we use the traditional method of labeling teans that qualified for the playoffs. Like this:
 * x- Cleveland Cavaliers (4)

The (4) is optional. The letters used will mean: – Howard  the   Duck  03:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * z- clinched home court advantage throughout the playoffs
 * y- clinched division title (I prefer using "y" instead of "a" or "c" or "sw" since it'll be uniform for every team.)
 * x- clinched playoff berth
 * e- eliminated
 * I'd be applying this slowly to the NBA season articles if nobody objects by the weekend. If the objection is that they'll be different from other season articles, don't worry, I'll get through them however long it takes. – Howard  the   Duck  05:10, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I think you should do both background color and your idea. It's regulated somewhere in WP:MOS to indicate both by symbols and color. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 07:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I dunno, since in the current season templates, the team indicated his highlighted with a color, now if we'd do the colors for the qualification, it'll mess things up.
 * Besides, in NBA standings, the letter x-z and e are the ones being used anyway, plus asterisks for division winners. – Howard  the   Duck  13:20, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I've done the changes on 2007–08 NBA season. I've also included some other minor formatting changes. If this works I'll apply this to the others (if somebody doesn't beat me). – Howard  the   Duck  16:14, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

NBA Store
I created a new article at NBA Store. I would appreciate some help linking to it (its currently orphaned), proofreading for clarity, accessing, and adding relevant categories to it. -- GateKeeper(X) @   18:45, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the article can actually obtain good article status if everyone in this WikiProject collaborated on it. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 23:01, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Good job! I have one question: what do you mean by "replicas of retired players" (in the description of the New York City store)? Statues? Zagalejo^^^ 23:32, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * By replicas I simply meant jerseys of players who have retired, usually known as throwbacks, ex:, but I think it can also mean jerseys that aren't quite the official jerseys worn by the players, ex: , for examples -- GateKeeper(X) @    12:24, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * OK. I tried to clarify that in the article. Zagalejo^^^ 16:55, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Portal:NBA
Does anyone think it is a good idea to create a portal for the NBA? I think we could create one if the project collaborate on it?— Chris!  c t 03:34, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea. Maybe we should...but recently, I've only seen around 10-20 users contributing greatly to this WikiProject, though we have 123 members. -.- I also thought about having a callout, to see how many users are still editing Wikipedia. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 06:54, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Chrishomingtang has already made Portal:National Basketball Association, just to clarify things up. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 06:43, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Callout (If that's what it's called)
I think we should have a callout to see how many members are still active, and move the inactive members to a inactive members list. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 06:54, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) here Chensiyuan (talk) 07:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) I guess me too. Laugh out loud. I'll message all the users tomorrow if I have time. Whoever does it before me, Thanks in advance. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L.  24 [c] 08:13, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) Here. (btw here's a table listing members by last edit. Some of our editors have been gone for a few years, others are vandalism only accounts. Don't read too much into the table since it doesn't say whether the editors have been active on this project.) GateKeeper(X) @    08:38, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) Obviously I am active —  Chris!  c t 18:43, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) I'm just slow to get my stats bot up...darn my other commitments :/ — LOL T/C 19:11, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 6) Also here. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:34, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 7) Green 18. ●  8  ~  Hype  @ 16:27, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 8) Yo. Zagalejo^^^ 05:25, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment
 * Umm wow...thank you very much for the list. I'll guess I'll just send the message to the users who edited in the last year if I have time. Whoever does it before me, Thanks in advance. Again, thanks. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 08:42, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I'll send a message to people who never edited in the last three months. Again, send the message to the users who edited in the last year if I have time. Whoever does it before me, Thanks in advance. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 08:47, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If someone can make the Inactive list right now, that'll be great. The ones with the arrows should be automatically put into the list. Thanks in advance. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 23:58, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I've messaged every user who has never edited in the last three months, excluding the ones with comments beside their names. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 00:11, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ I just move those I know active to the active list and move everyone else to the inactive list.— Chris!  c t 06:40, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

For people who got a message
For those people who got a message, reply here by signing with four tiles. Thanks. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 09:22, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Ouch!  Painful!  Kermitmorningstar (talk) 18:02, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Dikembe Mutombo
Is Mutombo retired? Anyone know? Zagalejo^^^ 05:25, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Go Google it. I don't think he's retired. He's maybe just not playing, and did not announce his retirement...yet. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 05:48, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know. His name is not on the roster, but I haven't heard anything about retirement.— Chris!  c t 06:24, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * He's a free agent right now. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 06:39, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Potential Featured Topics
I have been thinking these two potential Featured Topics. Both of them will require a lot of work, but I think if the Wikiproject NBA collaborate, it is possible.— Chris!  c t 22:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

"Inactive"-ness in the NBA rosters
I've been keeping the "inactive" status of the players in the Detroit Pistons roster template for the past two seasons. User 8-Hype doesn't like that information being there because the word "inactive" is not in the legend. I'd just add it to the legend for all the templates, but having it there would almost require it to be updated for all the templates.

Just thought I'd solicit for opinions. Thanks. — X96lee15 (talk) 00:45, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * How do you know if they are inactive or not? --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 00:48, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Based on the boxscores (listed under the home team's stats). — X96lee15 (talk) 01:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Why should we put it on the roster template when it is already on the depth chart? --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 01:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It's much easier to keep the inactive status on the roster than the depth charts. To update the depth charts, you have to move players around in the template as opposed to just adding an "inactive" note to the roster.  Plus, it's not obvious how to move those players around and doing so it's also my contention that it's WP:OR to combine the depth chart with the inactive status, since there are no sources that list the depth chart and the inactiveness.
 * Regardless, it shouldn't be an issue to put the inactive status on the rosters. — X96lee15 (talk) 06:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I totally agree with User:SRE.K.A.L.24. No need to do so since this information is given in the team's depth chart. ●  8  ~  Hype  @ 17:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Like I said though, it's OR to put the inactiveness in the depth chart. See the reasoning at the discussion earlier here. — X96lee15 (talk) 22:16, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Recent Changes
Centralized watch list for this project :
 * Default: Special:Recentchangeslinked/Wikipedia:WikiProject National Basketball Association.
 * Filtered: Last 500 Edits, Article Namespace only

-- GateKeeper(X) @   16:42, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Team Colors for profile pages
The NFL and MLB player pages have the team colors visible on the infobox. Why don't we do this for the NBA?

It'd be great if we got a project going and got that accomplished. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omgagain2 (talk • contribs) 17:18, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * And where do you think they should be added? — LOL T/C 18:12, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Cabrera
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Pierce


 * In the same fashion as these two.


 * We could rework the profiles so that the colors are very similar. --Omgagain2 (talk) 03:37, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * In my spare time I did a few test templates and this is something similar to how the NBA profile pages should look. Now given this is EXTREMELY broken but that's because it's a test. If we get a lot more experienced users on the project this could actually go somewhere.


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Omgagain2


 * Here on my profile is a test profile box for Shaq. The colors are a bit off and the font is unreadable in certain places, but again if we get some serious users on the project we can get somewhere.


 * I made test templates to go along with it. Here's some links to them.


 * Template:Nba infobox test updated
 * Template:Test NBA Primary
 * Template:Test nba secondary
 * Template:Nba alternate 1
 * Template:Nba alternate 2


 * I'm going to leave it for now and see what the experts can do about this.--Omgagain2 (talk) 04:32, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Fixed the color issue. Something was conflicting with alternate color 2. --Omgagain2 (talk) 04:40, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * So far it looks great! Well done. JoeJohnson2 (talk) 18:15, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

08-09 Pistons
Hi if someone is looking for something to do, the gamelog for 2008-09 Detroit Pistons season hasn't been updated in a couple weeks.TomCat4680 (talk) 17:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Yi Jianlian
Hi, I reviewed and promoted this article for GA status a while back. It is now a little out of date, as no mention of his participation in the 2008 Olympics had been added. In addition, although I understand that his birth year is disputed, the date given in the infobox should match the date given in the first sentence of the article. It would be great if someone could help with these changes. Thanks, GaryColemanFan (talk) 21:17, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I will do that, thanks— Chris!  c t 20:10, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Done, could you take a look? Thanks— Chris!  c t 20:43, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject newsletter
I was thinking of re-starting the WikiProject NBA newsletters just for the fun of it. Basketball110 have since been retired, and I would like to take the part of lead editor. If anyone wants to help out, or oppose on this idea, please comment ASAP before I make it on Saturday. Thanks and happy editing. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24  review me 07:01, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, go for it. Just ask me if you need help.— Chris!  c t 20:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * For anyone who is actually interested in this, I won't be writing the newsletter until further notice. If someone else wants to write it, go ahead, but just tell us before. Thanks and 恭喜发财! --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 03:54, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Nationalities / WP:Flag
I was wondering if someone could explain the logic behind Flags and Nationality information showing up in all sorts of NBA lists of awards. Players don't represent any country in NBA play (as opposed to, say, a list involving Olympics champions, since they DO represent a country in play). For example, All-NBA Team has a dozen footnotes detailing various player nationalities. What purpose do they serve? NBA Most Valuable Player Award and every other award page has Flags. It seems to me that this violates WP:Flag. They are obviously being overused for no reason, and, as I said, players don't even represent their countries in NBA play. JustSomeRandomGuy32 (talk) 19:46, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Specifically: WP:Flag - Flags should never indicate the player's nationality in a non-sporting sense; flags should only indicate the sportsperson's national squad/team or sporting nationality. They don't have 'sporting nationalities' in the NBA. (I believe flags were all removed from all Major League Baseball related articles for this very same reason.) JustSomeRandomGuy32 (talk) 19:51, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that having the flags violates WP:Flags for sportspeople. — X96lee15 (talk) 21:21, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm going to try one more time here to get some opinions. If nobody responds, I'm going to start removing flags and all nationality information for these NBA award lists, as they do not belong at all. JustSomeRandomGuy32 (talk) 05:46, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I suggest to go talk on Chrishomingtang's talk page, as he was the one who inserted the flags onto the lists. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 06:04, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I guess I miss this discussion the first time it went on. I don't think removing the flags is a good idea since, in my views, nationalities are relevant info about the players. Even if players don't represent any country in NBA play, nationalities always came up as an issue or a topic when people or the media talk about the NBA. This trend will continue especially when more and more foreign players start playing here in the US.— Chris!  c t 07:20, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

NBA starters templates
Should there be templates showing the starters of each team? For example Template:NFLStartingQuarterbacks shows each NFL teams' starting quarterbacks and Template:CurrentMLBclosers shows each MLB teams' closers. Should there be templates showing each Point Guard, Shooting Guard, Power Forward, Small Forward, and Center starter for each team?  Blu  e  Red   05:25, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Problem with infobox
Template:Infobox NBA Player. For the numerous articles are named with (basketball) in the title due to others of the same name, the NBA infopage link doesn't work, because it just uses the article's title. For example, Richard Hamilton (basketball) links to a broken link. A bunch of such articles have the infobox, including Tim Thomas (basketball) and Aaron Brooks (basketball).  Enigma msg  04:23, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I think instead of doing an auto link, just put the player code on the infobox (ie. | nba_profile = richard_hamilton ). --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 04:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Attempted at Richard Hamilton (basketball), but it didn't work.  Enigma msg  04:44, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That is because it wasn't added onto the template. I can't do that right now, or else all NBA player articles all need to be edited for this format. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 05:34, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

←  should be put in the documentation (as an optional parameter, perhaps)? — LOL T/C 23:55, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think.— Chris!  c t 00:59, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait a minute...why? Template:profile doesn't include links. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 01:01, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No. He meant adding an optional parameter to Template:Infobox NBA Player.— Chris!  c t 01:06, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * But why though? What are the benefits? There's no use in putting race, hair, and eyes in my opinion. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 01:22, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

← Let me retry:  (note the number of braces) is a parameter that already exists in Infobox NBA Player, but it should be put into the template's documentation. Here is an example of its usage. — LOL T/C 01:34, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Then why'd you put in on the section, "Problem with infobox"? LOL, o wells. If it's on the infobox, then go ahead and put it on the doc (the last section looks similar to what's you're talking about), though I still don't get why it is part of the infobox, when it is barely needed. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 01:44, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Why in this section? Because it solves the problem described above.  Try clicking the "Info Page" link on the infobox of this recent revision.  It's clearly needed if the infobox contains a link to the NBA profile. — LOL T/C 01:51, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, call me stupid, since I totally forgot what { – } does. If you do add, then wouldn't all nba player articles need to be edited. Wait...I said the same thing on the top of this section..."...code on the infobox (ie. | nba_profile = richard_hamilton )" --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 01:58, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * And I said " ... is a parameter that already exists in Infobox NBA Player" (emphasis added).  Before that, "optional parameter" was said twice in this section—put the two quotes together, and ... ;) — LOL T/C 02:07, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Now, I feel like erasing this whole thing, since there was no point in me commenting on this thread. -.- O, and go ahead and do w/e you want to do. :) --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 02:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Mike Maloy
Hello there Basketballers! I have just created an article on the recently deceased Mike Maloy, who was drafted (but never played) by the Boston Celtis, and then played as a pro in the ABA and in Europe. However, I am not a basketball fan (sorry!) and so my knowledge is at a minimum, and any help improving the article (including more categories and a proper, basketball-specific infobox which can list his pro stats) would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks, GiantSnowman 17:11, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Game log monthly W–L
I just discovered that a Sixers fan added monthly win–loss numbers here. Should this be done to all game logs, or be removed? — LOL T/C 20:17, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm the one that added that to the Sixers page, I kind of converted it over from the Pittsburgh Penguins Game log as they use the same system. I would like to say, I just thought it gives a better reference to the streaks that the team has. If you look at the 76ers page, you can now see quickly from the win-loss numbers that the Sixers played below .500 in November and December, but in January, they had a great month and played .750 ball. I also think home and away tally's can be useful for circumstances like the Cleveland Cavaliers where they had a long home unbeaten streak. I personally think it would be nice to be done to all the game logs, but that's just my opinion. If you think it should be removed, I understand. Yunggunn2k3 (talk) 20:39, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

LOL, you can't automatically compute that number, can you? I don't think it should be removed, but I also don't think the template needs to be updated to include it either (although it can). I have a general Wikipedia issue with things that are removed from one type of article because not all the other types of those articles have that thing. — X96lee15 (talk) 20:44, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I can't compute the monthly W–L simply be editing the templates, but I can have my game log script do the work. The reason I want to have the monthly W–L on either all game logs or none is because the game logs follow such a strict statistical format that any feature that is beneficial for one log will be beneficial for all. — LOL T/C 05:04, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I think a bigger problem is that many game logs haven't been updated at all since mid-December or so... Zagalejo^^^ 20:47, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm asking because I've just about finished my game log script, which I'll be using to update all our game logs, so...do you have anything to contribute to the topic? — LOL T/C 05:04, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If monthly win-loss numbers could be updated automatically (along with the other data in the game logs), then I don't see the harm. It's a useful statistic.
 * I didn't mean to seem snarky. I just wanted to make sure people understood the situation with those game logs. Zagalejo^^^ 05:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. It looks like nobody is against monthly W–L, so I'll go ahead and update everything by the end of the All-Star break; I just wanted to make sure that there is no opposition to them before I do any work.  Thanks for your input, and I hope you didn't mind me trying to be a little provocative there. ;) — LOL T/C 05:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

NBA All-Star Celebrity Game
NBA All-Star Celebrity Game -- article worth saving? You decide. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 05:03, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's a notable topic, although the article needs a lot of work. I'll try to clean it up. Zagalejo^^^ 05:18, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll help with categorizing. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 05:22, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Magic Johnson FAC
I'm thinking of taking Magic Johnson back to FAC. Any comments/words of advice beforehand would be appreciated. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 11:38, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Great to hear that, though I don't think I will be able to help much. Anyway, good luck.— Chris!  c t 01:15, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Template:NBA game log start
Umm...all the season game logs start like this: "2008.0000000000000000–09 game log" I couldn't find the error from the template or the team season game logs. Could someone just fix this, please? It'll definitely be appreciated. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 05:35, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I noticed that it is a problem in the whole Wikipedia. Probably just a malfunction. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 05:36, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. &mdash; Delievered by §hepBot  ( Disable )  on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 06:06, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added this project to the list.— Chris!  c t 21:33, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Err...have you? I don't see this WP in the list. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 03:54, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Opps, I added it to WikiProject Council/Contacts. Now fixed.— Chris!  c t 01:50, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Unsigned Overseas draft pick
There was a table of "Unsigned Overseas draft picks" for the Houston Rockets, inserted by User:Wiki Greek Basketball, taken out by me, and then inserted again by him (after several reverts). My argument is that the players are not relevant to the team. WGB responded saying that unsigned picks Brad Newley and Lior Eliyahu"are significantly better than several players on the current Rockets roster.," which I find hard to believe. As I also said, any other FA/GA team articles do NOT have this table (especially for the FA Toronto Raptors), if not having this was a comprehensive issue, then it would have been said). In any case, could I have the opinion of some other people (since WGB said taking it out was the opinion of only one person). Noble Story (talk • contributions) 09:42, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * IMO, it's useful information to have, although the table could be reworked to make it less "bold". It also could be generalized to include all players a team has the rights to, whether they be playing overseas or retired in the NBA.  I don't think the argument, "GA/FA articles don't have it, so it's not good" is valid either.  It's good info to have—I imagine if that data was in the FA/GA reviews, it would not have been removed. – X96lee15 (talk) 15:26, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't really have a problem with the table. It actually is somewhat interesting and useful (though I agree with X96lee15 that we should expand the scope a bit). Zagalejo^^^ 20:08, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, here's another question: depth charts. Should they be in team articles. For me, I think depth charts are too subjective. Thoughts? Noble Story (talk • contributions) 02:17, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I 100% agree with you on the depth charts. There was quite a bit of discussion on that in the past.  I will see if I can dig it up. — X96lee15 (talk) 02:22, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I find it here. I also find an MFD for these kinds of templates for last season here. Which makes me wonder why these templates are being again created for this year, despite the above MFD. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 07:48, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Article alerts
Just a reminder that you aren't giving any links to the article alerts from your mainpage. It's a good idea to either give a link, or to display them, otherwise not many people see them, losing all (or nearly all) benefits of having the alerts in the first place. If you either remove the display=none parameter, or give a link to WikiProject National Basketball Association/Article alerts, many of your members would appreciate it I'm sure. You can also transclude the alert page whereever you feel like (user pages, etc...).Headbomb {{{sup|ταλκ}}κοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:06, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I've just linked it. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 09:34, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

WP:NBA Manual of Style
I believe now is a good time for us to discuss the possibility of writing a "Manual of Style" for the WikiProject. The purpose of this is to standardize every aspects of the WikiProject. This can include but not limited to templates placement, placement with infoboxes, layouts of GAs, FLs and FAs, standardizing head coach lists, etc. Any thoughts?

If everyone at the end decided that we should have a "Manual of Style", then I will get to work to write one. After I create a rough guideline, then we can talk about each point individually and see what people think.— Chris!  c t 01:26, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Good idea. I second it, and will help with writing one, if help is needed. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 01:40, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Help is definitely needed.— Chris!  c t 01:43, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I may be able to help enforce the guidelines. Looking forward to this. :) — LOL T/C 01:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree that a MOS is necessary. Chensiyuan (talk) 01:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems to me no one is opposing this. Good.— Chris!  c t 01:59, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * WikiProject National Basketball Association/Manual of Style— Chris!  c t 02:01, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice. I will be adding stuff in the next few days. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:42, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

The page has been renamed to WikiProject National Basketball Association/Article guidelines after discussion on the talk page. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:25, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Tons of free NBA pictures
Take a look at this photo stream. There are 6,672 photos, lots of them NBA pictures, all taken by a professional sports photographer (all of them his), and they're all licensed as CC-BY-SA. So if you have any need of a good NBA picture, I would advise you look through this treasure trove of images. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 23:26, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Awesome, I think I'll add a few of the Pistons pics. — X96lee15 (talk) 23:46, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I've just uploaded a Derrick Rose image taken by Allison, but don't know if I should have asked for permission first. Is it mandatory to ask for permission? --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 01:06, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The CC license doesn't require it, no. But in the interests of being courteous, you could probably simply notify him of the fact. In fact, that would be a good idea for any future uploaders to just drop him a note. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 01:45, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Yup I've come across Mr Allison's photos before but he's expanded his collection I see. Just to avoid duplicity, I've already uploaded improved pics (from the stream) of Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Dwight Howard, Lebron James, Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler. Chensiyuan (talk) 03:23, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you really have to tell us what pictures to uploaded from Allison? It's nice, but it feels like you have WP:Editcountitis. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 05:34, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it is useful to keep track of what images everyone uploaded, so editors don't upload a redundant image. And Chensiyuan never said anything about edit count, so how does he suffer from editcountitis? — Chris!  c t 06:01, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps he didn't know what "just to avoid duplicity" means... his allegation was uncalled for. Chensiyuan (talk) 06:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * To Chris, I said it felt like, I didn't accuse him. Chensiyuan is physic. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 06:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Circuitous. Chensiyuan (talk) 06:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, anyway...As a courtesy to the author, so he can keep track (and us, too) of his images that we are using, I have set up a page: User:Noble Story/Keith Allison photos. I think I've got all of them so far, but anyone who adds a new picture would be welcome to add their image to the list. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 06:53, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I've created on the Commons the category NBA photos taken by Keith Allison. So, when you upload a new picture, to add to that category would be great. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 01:27, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Feels like this guy is going to become famous. LOLs --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 02:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Considering he just "donated" almost 7,000 professional taken photos to Wikipedia, I would say he will be, at least here on Wikipedia. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 02:34, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Template:NBA Awards
I have converted the Template:NBA Awards to a navbox, I think it is much better than the previous one.--Yankees10 17:55, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I reverted the changes you made because I think it is not an improvement. The template is configured this way because it is helpful to readers.— Chris!  c t 19:28, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * How is that template any more helpful than the navbox.--Yankees10 19:46, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Because it is on the top, so readers can navigate without scrolling to the bottom.— Chris!  c t 19:49, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah but it takes up half of the page and does not close like the navbox does--Yankees10 19:59, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it takes up half of the page on the right, but there are text on the left as well. So they balance each other out and that is not a problem. Also, there is no policy requiring the navbox to close.— Chris!  c t 20:08, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * How about putting on the close function on the current template, since readers might not want to always see the template there. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 21:55, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, we can at least try.— Chris!  c t 23:30, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) Hide function now on template. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] 06:58, 14 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah I think thats good. Sorry it took be a long time to respond.--Yankees10 15:52, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Magic Johnson FAC (2)
Magic Johnson is at FAC for the third time, and it needs all the help it can get. If you can, please review the article or assist the nominator in addressing the concerns. Getting this to FA would be a huge milestone. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:51, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I don't think I'll have the strength to go over it one more time if this FAC fails. Also, this is the FAC link. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 00:26, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Season list article titles
Per Lists (stand-alone lists), lists' titles should normally start out as "List of..." The season articles currently do not follow this convention; I propose that we move all 32 lists to comply with this guideline. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:24, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, but I am not convinced as there are many lists that don't start with "list of."— Chris!  c t 02:37, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Check WP:FL. All other NBA lists of winners or items (those that aren't the main lists) use "List of". Dabomb87 (talk) 02:39, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Then moved them. I am fine with that.— Chris!  c t 02:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Does anyone else have a problem? I will move these lists in a couple days if there is no opposition. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:40, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds fine to me. Let me know if you don't want to go through all of the busywork. —— LOL T/C 01:46, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I'll be fine. I just want to absolutely make sure that I have consensus. I contacted users who have improved season lists to featured list status (in addition to Chris, who has already agreed); if they don't have problems, I will go right ahead. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:00, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Not a big deal to me, but why is this only being done to basketball lists? If we agree that "List of" should be added, why shouldn't that apply to all sports season lists?  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 04:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Personally, I don't go a lot for "list of" titles, since you can pretty much see that immediately. But if it's in the MOS, then I will accept it blindly (ahem). It's fine to go ahead by me Noble Story (talk • contributions) 05:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * To Giants: I'm starting with WP:NBA because I am a member of this project, since the consensus is positive here I will move on to the other WikiProjects later. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:22, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) OK, I have moved every season list except for Boston Celtics seasons; I could not move that list because it can only be done by an administrator. Please !vote there. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:04, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * When did this happen? LOL. Couldn't this be done to all the other seasons lists on Wikipedia? --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] call me Keith 07:45, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * See my response above, have patience; I will get to it early this week. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, all 32 lists have been moved. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Proposed changes to FL criteria WRT length and content forking
See Wikipedia talk:Featured list criteria. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Kobe Bryant
Please comment here on whether the lead should mention Kobe's sexual harassment allegations. Thanks— Chris!  c t 01:54, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No consensus yet. JoeJohnson2 (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Since everyone agree except you, we have a consensus.— Chris!  c t 18:28, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Why are you pushing your bias on the NBA Project page? We need to give everyone a change at seeing the Article. YOU actually had it resolved the day I started arguing against you.JoeJohnson2 (talk) 19:52, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Stop accusing me for pushing bias. My position followed Wikipedia policy and everyone who participated in that discussion agree with me on that point. Your argument is based on your opinion and is not supported by any policies. Stop acting childish and accept the consensus. This is resolved no matter what you say.— Chris!  c t 20:06, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope. Not resolved. And if anyone is acting childish it's you. You don't run this place buddy.JoeJohnson2 (talk) 20:31, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Look, I don't have all day to debate with you about this. If you really like to mark this as unsolved, be my guest. The only important thing is that everyone who participated in that discussion know that this is over. I am not going to comment here anymore, so do whatever you want.— Chris!  c t 20:42, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What an absurd statement! How is what over? You are not an admin here, users are free to comment and edit on anything. Nothing is over, an article can always be improved upon. I find it hilarious that you still are keeping up this act, you don't own wikipedia. JoeJohnson2 (talk) 20:53, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

FL audit
WP:FLC director Scorpion did an "audit" of current FLs, here. Of particular interest might be the basketball section:


 * Type B:
 * Walter A. Brown Trophy - The table is an exact recreation of List of NBA champions. I think it could easily be merged there and the history can be split into sections for both trophies.


 * Type D:
 * Why can't these pages be expanded to contain the entire draft history of that team?
 * List of Los Angeles Lakers first and second round draft picks
 * List of Houston Rockets first and second round draft picks"

Type A are FLs that might not be needed. Type D are FLs that could be merged with another page. Any thoughts?

And on a similar note, I was looking at List of Houston Rockets head coaches, and then at the Houston Rockets, and I was just thinking that the head coaching article was entirely unnecessary (yes, I know I created it myself). However, I look at the main article, and the entire list is already contained there, and it's just fine. The lead isn't there, but there isn't really any need, since the table is pretty much self-explanatory anyway. With some 20 FLs already promoted in this category, it might be too late to do anything, but those are my thoughts. Does anyone have the same kind of feeling? Noble Story (talk • contributions) 06:44, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

For the draft picks ones, it was because the article will take more than a minute to load on public computer, Windows XP or older, etc. This is what it will look like if List of Houston Rockets head coaches was merged with Houston Rockets. D. --  SRE.K.A.L. | L.A.K.ERS ]] call me Keith 07:02, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, for head coaches list, it is already merged, as you can see in the main Rockets article. And the article length is pretty much fine, as far as I can see. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 14:31, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, almost all head coach lists are created due to consistency, and a bunch of editor including me are planned to bring head coach topic to FT status. So, I think we should leave them alone. Walter A. Brown Trophy can be merged, I guess, but I don't know if that would affect the existing NBA award FT.— Chris!  c t 18:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Category for deletion
Category:National Basketball Association players with retired numbers has been co-nominated for deletion, along with the similar categories for the NHL and MLB. Please respond at the discussion page. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 22:47, 31 March 2009 (UTC)