Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Archive 9

List of National Historic Landmarks in Massachusetts
There seems to be one extra site on the list. Does anyone know which one doesn't belong?--Appraiser (talk) 22:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There's no row labeled "101" in the bottom table. Do any of you table gurus know if there's a way to automatically number rows in tables? It's such a pain to have to go through and renumber every row in a large table like this when either something like this happens or new landmarks are added to the registry. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 02:15, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks!--Appraiser (talk) 03:05, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Template:US-related WikiProjects
Should Template:US-related WikiProjects be used in the Related WikiProjects part of the project page? -- SEWilco (talk) 04:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Coordinates Question
I'm new to the project and I'm wondering where to find the coordinates for the infobox? I've added the other information to Page-Walker Hotel, but I need a little help. Thanks. AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 04:10, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * WikiProject Geographical coordinates suggests Obtaining geographic coordinates. -- SEWilco (talk) 04:50, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Gracias. AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 05:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * De nada. -- SEWilco (talk) 05:21, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Your question indicates that you might not know about the valuable Elkman's infobox generator. If you type in page-walker and select NC, it will give you an infobox with coordinates, saving time when creating new articles.--Appraiser (talk) 13:09, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, this is the NRHP page. Coordinates might also be in WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/coords.  -- SEWilco (talk) 14:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Archive index started
I installed an archive index. The indexing bot is presently running every 6 hours. -- SEWilco (talk) 16:30, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Unlisted Places
Yenowine-Nichols-Collins House was removed from the NRHP, as it was torn down. Is it still part of this WikiProject? Is there a list of former places on the NRHP? Should I remove this from the List of Registered Historic Places in Indiana?-- Bedford 22:52, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


 * FYI, List of National Historic Landmarks in New York and several other NHL lists describe former NHLs, including some that were demolished. There aren't too many NHLs that have been delisted, i think only about 20 NHLs total, for having been demolished or for lesser degree of deterioration.  Actually some former NHLs remain NRHPs, they just no longer meet the higher standards required for NHLs.  Anything that is an NRHP and actually gets demolished is unusual and notable, I believe, and belongs in "Category:Destroyed landmarks" and in "Category:Demolished buildings and structures".  Definitely remains in WP:NRHP domain.  In a "list of RHPs in ___" list, i think I would leave it in the list, but note that it is a former NRHP.  Or, like in the List of NHLs in ___ articles, you could create a new section for Former NRHPs. 23:03, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that if it shows up in this list, you should leave the entry in the List of Registered Historic Places in Indiana with a note (razed, delisted on 03/06/06) and then remove the nrhp infobox and template. I didn't see the entry in the nrhp database; how do you know it was delisted?--Appraiser (talk) 23:04, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm glad someone raised this issue. At least a couple of the San Francisco NRHPs no longer exist. For example, St. Paulus Church burned down in 1995 (I think). But it still comes up in a search at nps.gov. Speaking of which, does anyone know why the current "Recent Listings" page at nps.gov now only goes through 11/23/2007? Could this be a sign that they're finally getting around to updating their database? --Sanfranman59 (talk) 23:41, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I know it is delisted because I go to the weekly list of actions. The page that says it has been delisted is http://www.nps.gov/history/nr/listings/20080314.HTM  The regular list is at http://www.nps.gov/history/nr/nrlist.htm, but since this afternoon, its taken off the last three months.-- Bedford  03:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we're safe keeping places on our lists and in our project even if they've been torn down. There's something to be learned from the destruction of historic buildings (see, for example, the Metropolitan Building that used to stand in downtown Minneapolis).  In fact, the destruction of historic buildings is one of the reasons why the National Register was founded in the first place -- to preserve them from the wholesale demolition of urban renewal and other forces.  On the other hand, I don't think I'd go writing a new article about Bridge L-3040, which was demolished and replaced with a new bridge.  (No thanks to the farmer(s) who kept driving big trucks over the bridge and forced its replacement.)  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 04:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I noticed the weekly list, too. I hope they're updating it. As for removals - the SHPO makes that determination and requests NPS to delist. If the SHPO never gets around to it... well... Einbierbitte (talk) 21:25, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Style guide
We think we should create a style guide for articles about Registered Historic Places. I think we have the desired format of state NHL Lists pretty well nailed down and the format for individual properties on the NRHP is fairly consistent. Unresolved issues are related to NRHPs that have Protected Area, Buildings and Structures, or Ship infoboxes, contributing properties, historic districts, and all the weird ones- memorials, monuments, Historical sites, Historic Parks, etc. We probably need to come up with a good example article for each type; then writing an NRHP Style Guide should be pretty straightforward.--Appraiser (talk) 16:18, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I started a style guide for us. Feel free to enhance it.--Appraiser (talk) 23:15, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

COPYVIO
Would anyone be willing to do a complete rewrite of Leland College at Talk:Leland College/Temp? It is a blatant copyvio, and over a week old. If not, I'll just delete it.  Jus tin  (Gmail?)(u)


 * The last version of Leland College article before copyvio marked is pretty much the same as the first version of that article, which seems to have been cut and pasted, with some reordering, from the site noted in the copyright vio notice. Or actually cut and pasted from here where it is even in the same order of sentences.  So with the wikipedia article, there are 3 similar copies.  How do you tell which is copied from where?  Is it all from a public domain source somewhere else? doncram (talk) 02:47, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I saw it from Copyright problems/2008 March 12/Articles, which says that it was copied from here.  Jus tin  (Gmail?)(u) 02:59, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Because that photo is labeled as 1923, the text can not be public domain based on the date (as well as more recent contents in the text). I'm seeing hints that the text came from a school; federal funding might be involved but grant money is not enough to establish USGov PD.  Stomp on the copyvio and let the stub grow anew.  -- SEWilco (talk) 04:27, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

The Hunt-Morgan House: perhaps a Contributing Propery, how handle it?
I just browsed Hunt-Morgan House an article edited recently by, and originally created by, new NRHP member User:FloNight. Nice job, FloNight...it's a nice article with a link to an NPS webpage about the building. Its NRHP infobox lacks a REFNUM and perhaps other info, however. I checked the Elkman generator and the official NRIS looking for this house, to no avail. What's the dealio? Perhaps it is merely a contributing property in a historic district. If so, how can you tell, and what should be shown in the NRHP infobox? Should one show the REFNUM of the historic district? Any good examples of NRHP infoboxes for a Contributing Property site? cheers, doncram (talk) 00:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a parameter option for it in the NRHP infobox:
 * nrhp_type = cp
 * It looks as though there are about a hundred articles with it, according to what links to it. -Ebyabe (talk) 03:36, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently the Hunt-Morgan House is in the Gratz Park Historic District. See http://www.nps.gov/history/nr/travel/lexington/gra.htm --Orlady (talk) 04:29, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Let me tell you what I learned through my research and see if it helps. Also, I have questions that I hope someone can answer. I started the article in 2006. Recently my husband and I took some photos of the property and some other local historic sites. I wanted to add the template so I looked for the correct data to add. I could not find a ref number by searching the data base but I was not sure if I was doing it correctly.

Searching LOC archives, I did find where the property was included in Historic American Buildings Survey in 1940 and I'm uploading these drawing and images to Commons. I'll add a commons template link when I'm finished uploading them.

I have questions about how to present data in the template so the historic interest and research on the property can be clearly shown. Historic American Buildings Survey appears to use ref numbers as well. Does this number and designation have any relationship or significance to a NRHP designation? FloNight&#9829;&#9829;&#9829; 12:40, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I added the Gratz Park Historic District refnum, the type=cp, the RHP template, and a category.--Appraiser (talk) 13:15, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. :-) FloNight&#9829;&#9829;&#9829; 13:41, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That YOU for doing the research and writing the article.--Appraiser (talk) 16:18, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Many HABS sites are not NRHP and vice versa. I like how Appraiser included a parenthetical link to the Gratz Park Historic District, with the added refnum.  Seems like a nice formatting point for Contributing Properties to state in the emergent style guide for wp:NRHP articles.  Where was that style guide, again? doncram (talk) 13:58, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Good workthrough of the CP data issues. Is there some history on the style guide issue that I'm missing? Ipoellet (talk) 15:57, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The Historic American Buildings Survey was established in 1933 as a Works Progress Administration agency, so that was well before the National Register was started. The Historic American Engineering Record (HAER) was created in 1969. As Doncram mentioned above, the reference numbers used by HABS/HAER don't have anything to do with the National Register Information System reference numbers.  HABS has documented many buildings that aren't on the National Register (and, in fact, many buildings that have since been demolished).  Also, the National Register has listed many buildings and structures that haven't been documented by HABS/HAER.  The nominator of a property and the State Historic Preservation Officer are responsible for documenting the property on the National Register nomination, so it's likely that HABS/HAER may not get to it.  One good thing about HABS/HAER, though: Their database of photographs and drawings is a work of the Federal Government, so the work is public domain for use on Wikipedia.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 03:56, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you (and everyone else) for the information. This is exactly the information that I needed as I plan to be active on this Wikiproject. FloNight&#9829;&#9829;&#9829; 20:34, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I changed the article name to Hunt-Morgan House and deleted the original page since no redirect is needed. Sorry for any confusion that this caused since we were in discussion about it. FloNight&#9829;&#9829;&#9829; 16:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No problems caused. I appreciate that you changed the name of the article to drop the "The" in the title, in response to my mild suggestion along those lines at the Talk page of the article.  It's funny, some of my friends/colleagues outside of wikipedia are completely wacko and do just the opposite of any suggestion, it's nice to meet an apparently open and normal person here :).  Hmm, i am verging on personal personality commentary here, with which i don't have much experience of in wikipedia.  So, perhaps i should be worried and put out some kinda disclaimer:  Of course we all have our wacko moments--me included--and i don't want a paste-up with any wackos present, please!  Anyhow, glad u seem to be getting information you need here.  Please do post any questions you may have. doncram (talk) 01:53, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Stub templates
I see that your project has been industrious in creating stub articles for National Registered Historic Places. Would you mind in the future using state-specific templates instead of NRHP-stub? If you go to, you will see the template format for each of the fifty states. As each template gains 60 articles, it will get its own category. Using the state templates will save us stub-sorters a whole lotta work. Thanks for considering it! Her Pegship  (tis herself) 19:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Talk to the guy who wrote the infobox generator. Oh, wait, that's me.  When I set it up, I just put a generic NRHP-stub in there, rather than a specific state.  I just added some code to put in the state, so that should deal with it.  (Although not everyone uses the infobox generator, so the reminder is still worthwhile.)  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 20:06, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks loads!! Her Pegship  (tis herself) 20:07, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I often see the stub-sorter people following up on what I do, as I create a helluva lot of articles, and I have just been using NRHP-stub and STATE-stub in articles that i create, and some fraction of the time i actually Watch the articles i create, though not usually. Hi, Pegship, never spoke to you before, but i notice u edited my Bank of Hominy article in Oklahoma, and other Oklahoma articles recently!  I notice someone or somebot named Waacstats is following after me in some other states.  However, following the link above suggests that there exist state-specific categories for only 16 states.  You should know, there are far more than 60 NRHPs for every state, and we are on track towards creating an article for every NRHP, so why not create the state-specific category for every one of the states right now?  If such exists, I will be happy to implement STATE-NRHP-stub in every article i create going forward.  Please correct me if i am wrong, but i think that STATE-NRHP-stub is a category in only 16 states now (and if u dont create them all then personally i will not bother to keep track which ones those 16 are).  Thinkin'/hopin' this might be helpful, me being part of the solution or part of the problem, same difference... :) doncram (talk) 02:07, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * When a stub template (i.e. Oklahoma-NRHP-stub) is applied to an article, but there is no, then the article remains in . However, tagging it with the right template makes it easy for us stubbers to keep track of which have 60+ articles, at which point we create the category. I see that Mississippi is at 51 articles, so as soon as it hits 60 (hint, hint) it'll get a category and all those articles will automatically move to it. Meanwhile, carry on and don't worry about creating categories, as I drop in frequently to check the numbers. Thank you so much for collaborating! Cheers, Her Pegship  (tis herself) 03:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoops, the part I left out is that 60 is the number of stub articles required by our project before a category is formed...unless there's an associated WikiProject, in which case the threshold is 30. I'll see if I can do something to speed the categories based on your project's participation. Her Pegship  (tis herself) 03:27, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, whatever about 30 vs. 60. FYI, there exist 79,000+ Nrhp sites divided across 50 states, and definitely more than 30 or 60 or 100 or whatever cutoff u want to set in every state, and we are determined to create an article for every one of those.    For counts of the number of National Historic Landmarks (an honor roll of NRHPs in each state, see List of National Historic Landmarks by state.  Interesting to meet u, u of the stub-sorting world, which seems to me anyhow to be a strange universe.  I suppose it takes all types, to make a wikipedia :)  And, okay from now on i will create articles with STATE-NRHP-stub.  Seems like u have a pretty good system going.  cheers, doncram (talk) 03:36, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup, we're kind of the super-wikignomes, industrious but obscure... :P Her Pegship  (tis herself) 16:22, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Should be mentioned on the WProject's page when it is populated?  -- SEWilco (talk) 04:04, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The stub template is mentioned under Templates. Her Pegship  (tis herself) 16:22, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Connecticut NHL of home of NPS founder Stephen Tyng Mather
Staib has been doing a bang-up job developing articles on CT NHLs, and describing them in the List of National Historic Landmarks in Connecticut. A recent addition: "Stephen Tyng Mather Home, also known as The Mather Homestead, was the home of Stephen Tyng Mather, the American industrialist and conservationist, who championed the creation of the National Park Service in 1916 and served as its first director." Not sure if Staib follows this talk page, but i thot i would mention Staib's good work. And point out there was a founder to the NPS, which eventually created a lot of work for us here. :) doncram (talk) 06:31, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Leonard Hall
This building appears to be a registered landmark, although I can't find the infobox material. I assume it's a landmark because the website I linked to is where I've gotten info for all of the other registered landmarks in Raleigh, North Carolina. Anyone know how I can check? AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 09:07, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The italics at the bottom of the page tell all. Leonard Hall is a contributor to the East Raleigh-South Park Historic District and not a separate property. Einbierbitte (talk) 18:03, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 18:14, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Fort Cascades
This article says it's on the list, but I'm not finding evidence of that anywhere except the link in the article, which I'm prone not to trust. Would anyone have any advice before I remove the claim? Murderbike (talk) 04:47, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, i think they're referring to North Bonneville Archeological District, #87000498. The NRHP.COM listing for it mentions it having "Historic Sub-function: Camp, Fortification, Military Facility, Village Site" and "Current Function: Landscape" and "Current Sub-function: Underwater".  I assume the last suggests some part of the historic district was submerged by the Bonneville Dam?  Address is restricted for this, but you can still request the NRHP document for the site, it will just come in a redacted format.  I recently collected NRHP documents for two other archeological sites in Washington, hadn't gotten to this one yet.  It brings up the issue, to what extent do we want to disclose the location and other information about archaeological sites.  Hope this helps answer your question, anyhow. :) doncram (talk) 07:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Proposal for uniting infoboxes for NRHP ships
I've made a proposal at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships regarding NRHP infoboxes for articles on ships that are on the NHRP. I've created an example implementation at USS Pampanito (SS-383). Feedback is appreciated. (Bonus: no new infoboxes or coding involved.) — Bellhalla (talk) 14:37, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * While I think we ("we" meaning someone with better coding abilities than myself) should incorporate info from the infoboxes for ships, bridges, dams, and any others we encounter, this looks pretty good in its stead. Murderbike (talk) 17:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Rev. M.L. Latta House?
I've got a question. The Rev. M.L. Latta House is on the list of historic places in Wake County, North Carolina. The information is still in the NRHP database, but the house was destroyed last year. Is it still ok to use the infobox and create an article for it? AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 14:10, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It seems unquestionable to be able to make an article about it, something doesn't lose notability just because it's been destroyed. See Nihon Go Gakko (Tacoma). As for the infobox, I would use it until I see evidence that something has been specifically delisted. Murderbike (talk) 17:03, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If the house was only notable for its architecture, I might hesitate to create an article for it, but that's my personal opinion. However, it sounds like the Latta House was significant for its role in education for African-Americans in the area.  I'd recommend creating an article for it, since there's history that deserves to be told. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 18:05, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's what I was thinking. AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 17:55, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Address Restricted
"To protect fragile properties. particularly those subject to looting and vadalism, the National Park Service will withhold information about the location and the character of the property from the general public. The Federal Register will indicate "Address Restricted" and give the nearest city or town as the property's location. The NRIS will also refer to the location this way. Further the National Park Service will exclude this information from any copies of documentation requested by the public" - National Register Bulletin 16A, p. 10. Many states have confidentiality laws that protect sites as well, and keep locations from the public.

I suggest that locations are not to be given in the articles or the Infoboxes. There is a reason why the address was restricted. I think this is being a good citizen of the world.

The only exception to this would be if the site is located in a park or other proteced area that has a full-time staff who could keep watch over it. One example would be the Kimmswick Bone Bed which is located in the middle of Mastodon State Historic Site in Missouri. However, if the site is in the middle of the North Dakota prairie, I would say that no locational data be shared. Which brings up pictures. Unless the site is protected in a park, I say no pictures, because someone may recognize the area and tell everybody. Einbierbitte (talk) 19:20, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I've wondered what is the right thing to do. Not sure if the bad guys don't already know where the sites are, and go loot them regularly.  Maybe better to let everyone know about the sites, and so more people can know to care and protect them.  Security by obscurity is a pretty bogus type of security. doncram (talk) 19:27, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

One of the sites I've been updating is in an old Boy Scout camp, so its "addressed restricted" is a joke; anyone within 30 miles can find it.-- Bedford 19:38, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I add coordinates if I can figure it out in ten minutes or less using public data and the www. Anyone wanting to do harm can do the same thing, since I have no special knowledge or power. The policy was written before GPS receivers were cheap, everyone has the www, and satellite photos were easily accessible. I wouldn't lose any sleep over the issue.--Appraiser (talk) 20:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

NRHP Query Error
Google Maps

The above link shows 2 positions. Position A is located at the coordinates that the NRHP Query returned to me for Grand Opera House (Meridian, Mississippi). Position B is the ACTUAL position. I live in Meridian, so I know firsthand where the building is. Is there any way to fix this? I mean I can probably through trial and error manually change the coordinates, but that's time consuming, and I'm lazy :P. Anything anyone knows of? Dudemanfellabra (talk) 18:34, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I too have found the coordinates that the NRHP has to be unreliable. I've been using EarthTools to find reliable and accurate coordinates. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 18:54, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, wow. How do you do that? I can only get it to find a city; then I have to zoom in and find the building manually. If anything is going to be done manually, I would recommend Google Maps. You can type in an address at least there. If the place/building is mildly important, sometimes you can even just type the name in directly.


 * What I'm looking for, though, is some type of software or something of the like that will actually change the coordinates in NRHP (preferably automatically... but simply being able to update the database after manually finding the actual coordinates would suffice). Is that even possible? Dudemanfellabra (talk) 20:23, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I just keep zooming until I get to the location of interest. I didn't think that Google Maps gave you coordinates. Does it? --Sanfranman59 (talk) 23:17, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * First of all, have to say that Dudemanfellabra is a new wikipedian who has done a great job adding to NRHP Highland Park Dentzel Carousel and Shelter Building and some other articles, adding well-composed text as well as photos.  I'm not sure, but I think that Dudemanfellabra is looking for a tool that will correct the latitude and longitude fields within the NRHP infobox, as generated out of the deservedly-famous-and-wonderful-and-definitely-my-fave-tool the Elkman NRHP infobox generator.  Something that specific is not available, i am pretty sure.  But i did find my way to a different tool which extracts, from google, the coordinates of wherever you are pointing at, into a Wikipedia coordinates reference.  However, I can't remember where i found that, or exactly what it does.  I don't really get it yet, about how coordinates go into articles.  Though  I do like the Google maps you can get to now, from many/most of the NHL list-articles. doncram (talk) 01:32, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I have talked with the NRTHP people in the past and they acknowledge that the TopoZone locator in the NRIS can be "off". It is especially bad with large areas, such as districts. There should be some fine tuing involved when the coordinates are used. Einbierbitte (talk) 19:20, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * In response to Sanfranman59, yes. I've been out of town for a while, so I haven't been able to reply....


 * If you go to the first link in this section, you can click on one of the "Edit" links on the left side of the page to see the GPS coordinates. To get coordinates for any point on a map, just right click on the map and click either "Directions to here" or "Directions from here"... Then click the edit button for that location when the page loads, and it will give you coordinates. They're in decimal format, though, so you'll have to change them to DMS; it's not that hard, though. I myself just found that out too haha, so don't feel bad. Dudemanfellabra (talk) 01:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the tip. How do you convert the coordinates to DMS? --Sanfranman59 (talk) 05:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm actually a high school senior, so for high school, I was required to have a graphing calculator (Specifically a TI-83+SE. On the calculator, there is a built in function which I use to convert to and from DMS and decimal. Another easy method is to go to this site. I just found it with a Google search; it was the first result. Dudemanfellabra (talk) 16:11, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Scope
So, if my calculations are correct, at the rate that articles got created this month, it will be nearly 50 years before all the (current) sites get articles, not counting those that get listed in the meantime. Time to get workin'! Murderbike (talk) 22:10, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't be too discouraged. Some articles about nrhp sites are not added to our "new articles" list and the number of active contributers is growing all the time. How many nrhp are there, anyway? Last year I spent most of my time working on U.S. Representatives; we created articles for all 12,000 of them, which seemed like an arduous task at first. But there's at least a stub for all of them now.--Appraiser (talk) 13:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I see plenty of progress. The list of 2,430 or so NHLs has come from nowhere but will be complete soon.  User:SP-KP back in March 2006 seems to have started it with fairly good beginning, labelled "This is an incomplete list, which may never be able to satisfy certain standards for completeness."  I think it would take me about 6 months, if i was working alone, to create Start level articles for all the remaining NRHPs that are also NHLs, status report here: WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/ProgressOnNHLsByState.  We already have stub articles for over 2000 out of 2,430 or so, and I enjoy doing a few each day.  But there are others working, so stub articles, at least, for all will be done a lot sooner:


 * User:Dmadeo has just completed out stub articles in New Jersey (although, oddly, he announced the creation of many individual articles but did not add them to WP:NRHP),
 * User:Lvklock has the last Idaho one ready in a sandbox,
 * User:Cg-realms is developing Massachusetts,
 * User:Clariosophic and User:KudzuVine are active in South Carolina,
 * User:AgnosticPreachersKid is active in North Carolina,
 * Murderbike finished out Washington,
 * I notice User:Altairisfar and User:Appraiser are busy, and
 * others are active too.
 * The biggest state NHL lists remaining, where no one has been leading an attack, are Virginia NHLs, Washington, D.C. NHLs, Ohio NHLs, and Texas NHLs but maybe people will rise up to help out in those areas, too? We could possibly have good stubs for all the NHLs by the end of April, but I don't want to push for that, it will just come along at its own good pace.  Likewise, the rest of the NRHPs will come along, and I would think activity would accelerate, and I would guess it would take maybe a year or so.  How do you figure it could take 50 years? doncram (talk) 16:28, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I counted 117 new articles this month, and somewhere around 70,000 articles left to do. But those numbers could be off 'cause i just did it real quick with a calculator. it pretty much just amazed me, and definitely wasn't meant to discount the amazing amount of stuff people have been doing lately, i started mainly 'cause I was shocked at how many new articles had been done this month. Murderbike (talk) 16:40, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Shocked at how many or how few? And of course stubs equivalent to Elkman infobox output could be created for almost all the NRHPs within a few days, if we wanted to do that (which I don't). But what would really stimulate article creation would be to score a nicely written "How-to of the day" on the joy of going and taking a pic and creating a wikipedia article for your local NRHP. doncram (talk) 16:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Shocked at how many actually. It made me think "I wonder how long this'll take us at this rate...". Well, I'm off for about two months (except to check in every once in awhile), good luck with it while I'm gone! Murderbike (talk) 18:07, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll try to start working on some of the D.C.-related articles within the next few weeks. I've been sticking to NC (I grew up in the state), but I live in D.C. now and I didn't realize the DC NHRP list was lacking. AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 20:40, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've decided to do at least one stub a day for NRHP's I've taken pics of in NYS, but haven't done anything with. I'll try to finish up that Idaho one, too.  Feels a little more like work.....the pics are my favorite part! Lvklock (talk) 19:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Tool to generate list / table of NRHPs in a county
I know such a tool has been mentioned, but i haven't used it, can't find it here or in the talk archives. Where? How? thanks! doncram (talk) 15:34, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * here
 * thanks!

Main page nomination for Manzanar
With the 39th Annual Manzanar Pilgrimage coming up on April 26, I have nominated Manzanar to be on Wikipedia's main page on that date. Please add your support for that at Today's featured article requests. Thank you! -- Gmatsuda (talk) 21:10, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

DYK
I notice someone added Leonard Hall (Shaw University) to the DYK list on the project page. I never added the article to this project because the building itself is not listed in the NHRP database. (see conversation a few topics above) If it's going to be listed as a DYK for this project, should I add the project banner to the L.H. talk page or remove it from the DYK list? BTW, I can't believe it's not registered yet, given its historical value. AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 08:21, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Does anyone have a suggestion? AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 19:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You have a couple of choices:

(tongue-in-cheek)--Appraiser (talk) 19:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) nominate it for Registered Historic Place
 * 2) remove it from this project
 * I hereby decree that Leonard Hall is now a NHRP. Wait, that's not how it works? Dang. Ok, I removed it from the DYK list. AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 20:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

AfD: List of Registered Historic Places in Kansas
I was just notified that List of Registered Historic Places in Kansas has been nominated for deletion. Please go make your voices heard. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 23:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Nomination to delete was withdrawn, given unanimous opposition. Thanks for pointing this one out, Sanfranman! doncram (talk) 09:46, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

do we notice new NHLs?
I notice a claim in DYK article Roanoke Building that it was named a National Historic Landmark in early 2008. I am surprised not to have heard, in which case I would have wanted to update List of National Historic Landmarks in Illinois but actually i don't know where new NHLs would be announced, whether they make the general news like new National Monuments do. With the NPS webpages down, apparently, it is hard to look for any news reports there right now, but where would such an announcement be there, anyhow? I think it also is conceivable that the one news reporter upon whose reporting the claim is made for this article, got it wrong, got confused between it becoming a Chicago landmark and becoming a NRHP. I would like to know that we notice new NHLs right away though. doncram (talk) 10:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know the general answer to your question, but it looks like the Roanoke Building is just a Chicago Landmark (not an NHL) --Appraiser (talk) 15:08, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I suspect it is not an NHL and have posted to the Talk page of the article. I can't tell if it is an NRHP, either.  The List of Registered Historic Places in Cook County, Illinois says that it is updated, for Chicago information, only through 14 September 2007.  Where can I check the "new listings" since that date, to search for this?  I notice at least part of the NPS website is back up now, by the way. doncram (talk) 00:12, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * A search of Google (admittedly quick) shows NRHP Roanoke Buildings, but not the one in Chicago. The reference says it's an NHL. But I'm not seeing a reference number, which does make me wonder. There's no easy way I know of to look for recent adds. Only to go thru each of the weekly notices for the last year. But I believe all the lists here were updated at least to the end of 2007. So maybe just look thru the '08 listings? G'luck. -Ebyabe (talk) 01:03, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I've cut and pasted into a spreadsheet all of the "recent listings" from the NPS site going back to January 2007 (i.e. all of the individual links on the old "recent listings" page). There's no listing for a Roanoke Building in Illinois. Over the last week, I've been updating each state NRHP list and have made it through North Carolina (in alphabetical order). I did not update the Chicago list because it's organized by neighborhood and I don't know neighborhood boundaries. If someone else wants to do so, here are the four places not on the current list:
 * Palmer Park (listed 8/30/2007), 201 E. 111th St.
 * Edison Park (listed 9/21/2007), 6755 N. Northwest Hwy.
 * West Burton Place Historic District (listed 12/6/2007), 143--161 W. Burton Pl.
 * Lumber Exchange Building and Tower Addition (listed 12/6/2007), 11 S. LaSalle
 * --Sanfranman59 (talk) 01:41, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you Ebyabe and Sanfranman59 for your help. Actually it is the Lumber Excahnge Building at 11 LaSalle, that is an alternative name for the Roanoke Building.  So it is an NRHP.  Sanfranman, can you further provide the refnum and any other available information on it, perhaps to the article itself or to Talk:Roanoke Building?  Or point me to a URL with the new listing info?  Unfortunately what I think may be the place that new listings are shown, NRLIST.HTM page at NPS, returns an error right now. doncram (talk) 02:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks i got the refnum now, too. Sanfranman59, it is great that you are doing all that updating.  I appreciated the news when you added 2 recent NRHPs to List of Registered Historic Places in Onondaga County, New York.  About those 4 Chicago ones, i just added a new section to the Chicago RHP list, "Neighborhood to be determined", to hold them.  Actually i put three there, and put the Lumber Exchange one into the Loop neighborhood, because i am willing to guess it is downtown. doncram (talk) 06:37, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) For the record, after searching on the NPS site and elsewhere, I think that new National Historic Landmarks are announced prominently by proclamation and press release by the Secretary of the Interior, and covered in news stories in affected areas, and we would hear about them in the general news. For example April 2006 news article about March 20 NHL designation of Madison, Indiana, historic district, March 27 2006 NHL announcement about Graceland, February 2006 announcement of Manitoga NHL, 18 sites designated NHL on same day in 2003. New NHLs would probably be announced in the NHL webpage system, too, among other news items on the NHL webpages News page. I think there have simply not been any new NHL announcements since i became active in WP:NRHP back in September or so. There was a Presidential announcement of a couple National Monuments, but no NHLs, it appears. I emailed the reporter whose article included the seemingly incorrect assertion of NHL for Roanoke Building, but don't really expect a reply, will report if i get one. doncram (talk) 07:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I would note that National Historic Landmark designations usually make the national news. IvoShandor (talk) 12:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The current administration must be saving up a bunch of NHLs to designate in a big group together, again. I wonder if the timing of the announcement will be politically driven, say to offset some negative Republican news or some positive Democrat news figuring into the upcoming election.  We should get prepared to pounce on the announcement, when it happens, to update articles about the new NHL sites (which probably will already exist as NRHP articles), to update the state and overall NHL list-articles, and to have a pre-drafted wikinews article ready to revise and post.
 * It was a big scramble to get out any wikinews article on the last National Monument to be announced, African burial ground in New York City dedicated as National Monument, and the article was too rough or inadequate in other respects to be mentioned in the "In the news" box on the wikipedia Main Page. In that article I recall it was difficult to come up with accurate, verifiable counts to make the statement "It is only the 123rd National Monument in the nation, while there are 110 National Historic Landmarks in New York City alone."  We would have difficulty right now in making a statement about how many NHLs in the US there are.  Anyhow, I would hope that we could be ready to go with a good article that would make that "In the news" box and which would highlight our work. doncram (talk) 17:12, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

ALERT! Reference missing from the web!
I just found out that an important link used as an external link and a reference has died(http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/). What happened to the site, and how can we fix this? DanTD (talk) 15:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't panic. The site is not responding, but it may be a temporary issue. The domain name is registered until 2012 and other sites on the same host IP are also not responding. My guess is that the webhost is having a technical problem. --Orlady (talk) 15:41, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Although this site is a much better organized one than the official site, we never have been able to figure out who is running it and what their motivations are. I don't like that it masquerades as a government site and I wouldn't be surprised if the funding dried up. We'll see.--Appraiser (talk) 16:57, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I consider that site largely unreliable, given that there is no evidence to the contrary. Although, the NPS database is just as rife with errors. I guess it's a toss-up. I think the site in question does or did have some kind of commercial ambitions. IvoShandor (talk) 12:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The only errors I've found in it originated with the nris, except that it lists former sites. And I like how one can navigate county and states easily. What I dislike is that it looks very official and yet it is not.--Appraiser (talk) 13:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I find it to be a useful tool. I see no problem in using it as long as you know it's not an official site, and take it with a grain of salt. Einbierbitte (talk) 21:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Category:National Register of Historic Places stubs
Please see the changes to this category. Apparently we've been growing a bit... :) -Ebyabe (talk) 23:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey i represent that remark! Some of my best stuff is in this category :) doncram (talk) 00:19, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I meant the subcategorization. There were so many, there's now regional subcategories, and it's being maintained by the stub sorting folks. Go team! :) --Ebyabe (talk) 00:22, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I once tried stubbing out the Illinois list, never got too far, did some though. I just don't have the patience for it. Ebyabe and doncram are unstoppable though. You both deserve much props for your efforts in stubbing NRHPs and NHLs, respectively. Thanks for all your hard work, both of you, I tried stubbing so I know how tedious it can be. IvoShandor (talk) 08:53, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the appreciation. It is nice to have you back!  :)  About the stubbing, yes it can get very boring.  I don't know if i could keep going at it alone, but happily I have enjoyed working in a gang with KudzuVine and Clariosophic to complete out List of NHLs in SC, and with Lvklock to complete List of NHLs in Idaho.  We're having a party now on List of NHLs in Virginia.... doncram (talk) 17:32, 16 April 2008 (UTC)