Wikipedia talk:WikiProject New Jersey/Archive 3

Peer Reviews, etc.
The following New Jersey related articles are undergoing Peer Reviews:
 * 1) Joyce Kilmer
 * 2) Rutgers University

I would appreciate your input and suggestions regarding ways these two articles can be improved and possibly get them to a state of worthiness for Featured Article status.

Both of the Peer Reviews in question can be found here: Peer review.

For your information, the Joyce Kilmer article passed Good Article on 31 December 2006, only a mere one hour and 56 minutes after it was nominated.

Thank you in advance for your efforts and comments in this regard. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 00:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

State Logos
What fair use rationale are we using for any logos from the state? According to the NJ website agency logos, or the Great Seal, can only be used as allowed by law but those uses are not stated. I'm trying to pick the correct copyright tag for the New Jersey State Police logo. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Editcml (talk • contribs)


 * The fair use rationale is outlined in seal. Others are using logo.  The wikipedia servers are in Florida and are not subject to New Jersey law (although you may be; this is not legal advise).  See here for the NJ statute about use of the seal. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 14:59, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Since that link is not working, the statute follows. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 15:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * 52:2-3. Persons authorized to use the Great Seal
 * 1.The Governor of the State, the head of any principal executive department of the State, the members of the Legislature of the State, the former members of the Legislature of the State as provided in section 2 of P.L.1999, c.374 (C.39:3-27.115), the Justices of the Supreme Court, the judges of the Superior Court, the county prosecutors, county clerks, surrogates and sheriffs, the Secretary of the Senate, the Clerk of the General Assembly and members of the Congress of the United States and each of them, are authorized to use, exhibit and display the Great Seal of the State of New Jersey, in whole or in part, including such use, exhibition and display on their motor vehicle license plates.


 * 52:2-4. Unauthorized use;  penalty
 * Any person who is not authorized by law to use, exhibit or display the State Seal, who uses, exhibits or displays the Great Seal of the State of New Jersey,  in whole or in part, is a disorderly person and upon conviction as such shall  be subject to a fine of $50.00.


 * 52:2-5. Unauthorized use upon vehicle license plate;  revocation
 * Any person who is convicted as a disorderly person for an unauthorized use of the State Seal upon a motor vehicle license plate shall be subject to a revocation of his motor vehicle registration by the Director of the Division of Motor Vehicles in the State Department of Law and Public Safety.

Newark
I have proposed that Newark be moved to Newark (disambiguation) and replaced with a redirect to Newark, New Jersey. Please discuss at talk:Newark - crz crztalk 14:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Joyce Kilmer
Please visit the talk page and review the recent edit-warring history for Joyce Kilmer and please comment on whether certain genealogical information (which I think is irrelevant and anti-policy) should be inserted into the article. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 00:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Paulins Kill is now a Featured Article
The article Paulins Kill was promoted to Featured Article just few hours ago. Just to inform y'all and to thank you for any contributions or suggestions some of you have made to help improve the article and develop it well enough to earn inclusion among Wikipedia's finest work. Thank y'all. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 04:35, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Rutgers
FYI: I've started a WikiProject, hopefully to be under the auspices of the New Jersey and Universities WikiProjects to direct efforts to articles related to Rutgers University, at WikiProject Rutgers. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 16:40, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Navboxen
These should either line up or all be centred (preferable). For me the ones at the bottom of Clifton, New Jersey do not seem to have the same centre. Rich Farmbrough, 10:53 23 February 2007 (GMT).
 * I have changed the Passic County navbox. I suppose the others need checking. Rich Farmbrough, 10:58 23  February 2007 (GMT).
 * All done. Rich Farmbrough, 12:27 23 February 2007 (GMT).

A display can be found here. Rich Farmbrough, 12:30 23 February 2007 (GMT).

Historical population data for municipalities
There is historical NJ municipal population information (1930-1990) here. Please use this data with the USCensusPop template as follows. Just place the population on the year= lines. This table should go into the "Demographics" section. I've added similar tables to all the county articles already.

--ChrisRuvolo (t) 02:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I also came across another source, which has data for major cities.  This includes a reference to Harrisburg, New Jersey, a city, in the 1880 rankings, but not in the preceding or following years.  Does anyone know what municipality this refers to?  Thanks.  --ChrisRuvolo (t) 20:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The Index section of "The Story of New Jersey's Civil Boundaries: 1606-1968", John P. Snyder, Bureau of Geology and Topography; Trenton, New Jersey; 1969. shows nothing for Harrisburg, and it includes Everything. New Jersey's locality and place name search tool finds nothing, as well. Beats me. Alansohn 20:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I now think this is an error by the Census Bureau. They mean Harrisburg, PA.  See the below numbers. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 1870 "Harrisburg, PA": 23,104
 * 1880 "Harrisburg, NJ": 30,762
 * 1890 "Harrisburg, PA": 39,385


 * Congratulations again on completing this ludicrously ambitious task. Where's a bot when you need one? What is the source of the Harrisburg data above? Alansohn 18:07, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * They are the tables from . Links added above. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 19:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, we might be able to get a little further back. As you may already know, I've found information that dates back to the first Census, 1790, for the townships and cities around then.  However, the only issue is 1800, 1810, 1830, and 1840 are all missing (strangely, 1820's easy to find), therefore making the earliest I could start and run continuously is 1850.  Now, I've already done it for the municipalities in Salem County, and as soon as I have time, I'll do the rest.  If anyone (especially you two) want to help me, that's great.  Otherwise, I'll just work on it as I get some time.  I've already started in Salem, like I said, so my next counties are the touching ones, Gloucester and Cumberland.  Lemme know if you wanna help, because since these are scans of the originals, unfortunately, the Adobe Reader's "Find" doesn't do a damn bit of good.  Therefore, it's even more arduous than before, but it can be done in a reasonable amount of time (took Salem only 2 days, and that's cause I only worked on it an hour at a time).  Any volunteers? EaglesFanInTampa (formerly Jimbo) 00:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think Alan and I got them all now. If we missed any, let us know.  BTW, I didn't put 2005 population estimates for most of the municipalities, as that is a moving target (don't want to update this every year, and they are not canonical census counts).  If you want to add that info for a particular municipality or CDP, use the U.S. Census Factfinder to look it up. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo/EaglesFan, thanks, I hadn't seen that link before. I ran through the 1920 census report. It shows data for large municipalities as far back as 1810. It also shows data for all other municipalities for 1900 to 1920. I've compiled that data and added it to the spreadsheet. Please use the following reference when adding this data. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 19:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

New articles
Dear Wikipedians, a list of possible New Jersey-related articles found by bot is available at User:AlexNewArtBot/NewJerseySearchResult. Colchicum 14:58, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Washington's crossing of the Delaware
Folks, there's currently a proposal to merge Washington's crossing of the Delaware with Battle of Trenton at Talk:Washington's crossing of the Delaware. I personally oppose merger, but the NJ community should comment. Wl219 21:09, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Articles in Barnegat / LBI area
I've spent quite a bit of time trying to improve Barnegat Light, New Jersey, Barnegat Lighthouse, Long Beach Island, Barnegat Bay, and Barnegat Inlet. While I still have some more thoughts on what to add into Barnegat Light and I hope to obtain plenty of photos for all of the subjects, I'm starting to run short on improvement ideas for the articles. I welcome input from other users -- feel free to edit the article on post recommendations either here or on the respective talk pages of the articles. Thanks! --Bossi ( talk ;; contribs ) 17:46, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Fort Dix attack
Since Ft Dix is in Nj, i've added 2007 Fort Dix attack plot to the project. -- ZeWrestler  Talk 20:34, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Seals and logos may be deleted unless action is taken.
FYI, in case you are not aware, there are bots going through and marking for deletion any logo or seal that does not have a fair use rationale on the image page. This will include town seals, county seals, etc. Please go through the images you have uploaded and create a rationale for any image that has been or might be tagged for deletion. Being pro-active here will be easier than going back and re-uploading the images. Thanks. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 20:49, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Importance rating
Could someone from this project assign an importance rating to the battleship USS New Jersey (BB-62)? I would rather not have that box left with a question mark. TomStar81 (Talk) 21:01, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Another featured list
Hi! You might want to add List of New Jersey birds to your featured list section&mdash;since it is, indeed a featured list! :) MeegsC | Talk 18:16, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Blairsden, Peapack/Gladstone‎
Greetings from the left coast. This article was created today by user Weird NJ, which by an astounding coincidence is the name of the magazine the article appears to be copied from. The content does not appear to be online on the mag's web site, else I would have speedy-tagged it straight away. Due to the potential copyvio issue the article seems prod-dable, but I wanted to call attention to it here in case someone wanted to either do something productive with it or confirm the copyvio so it can be deleted. Thank you for your time. -- Finngall  talk  23:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Geography of NJ COTW
I've nominated Geography of New Jersey for the article improvement drive. Support would be great for it. -- ZeWrestler  Talk 03:28, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Putting NJ terrain map in towns
17-Aug-2007: I have begun putting a quick New Jersey roadmap in major town articles. However, the map's size might be an issue (don't panic, it's not a cumbersome, gargantuan PNG map that will crash browsers). It's an ultra-quick, photo-terrain JPEG map. The map shows the major towns, plus roads, hills, and creeks/bays in the state, purposely labeled to be readable when displayed down to the typical 295px/300px width:


 * NJ terrain roadmap: Image:Map New Jersey NA.jpg

I am trying to use similar map-size in many town articles, since same-sized images reuse browser cache files, downloading the actual map only once per browser cache-period. (I have already put similar roadmaps in 30 major Louisiana town articles). Rationale for use of roadmaps in town articles:


 * Shows town, in nearby context, of State & nearby towns/states;
 * Shows town, in nearby context, of roads/Interstates/rivers;
 * Map is fast 50kb first time, reuses browser cache afterward.
 * A "picture is worth a thousand words" if the picture follows standards, else it's a "different thousand to each viewer";
 * Who knew Hoboken was so close to New York City?
 * Who knew Staten Island looks like part of New Jersey?
 * A map helps orient outsiders to the whole area;
 * Similar maps are used by http://www.city-data.com (however, WP can't compete [yet] with those city-data maps, for town-limits, town-region, and town within interstate-area-map);
 * The map can also be used for river/bay articles to show nearby stuff, such as town names.

Discussion issues:
 * What size map should be used to show "nearby context"?
 * Could state roadmap-subsets be used to provide smaller maps?
 * Do maps typically bother locals so much that maps should be moved near the bottom of town articles, with outsiders scanning the article to find bottom maps?

Those are some of the things to ponder. -Wikid77 18:32, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * MediaWiki resizes large images down to the displayed size. Having a high-quality PNG would be preferred, as  JPEGs are only suitable for photographic data.  Second, the maps as currently added to articles (e.g. Hoboken, Weehawken and Union City) take up far too much screen real estate.  Thirdly, at the scale of display in the article, there is not much local information that can be discerned, and there is far too much information on other regions of the state.  IMO, this map would be more suitable for an article on the state's highway network than articles on individual municipalities.  I recommend that this map be removed from municipality articles. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 21:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input. Another user agreed with the concept of the map taking "too much screen real estate" and I tend to agree. I am working on a 2nd subset (close-up) map for those many (famous) northeast towns, which could link to the full map, outside. Again, thanks for responding, I know only a handful of WP editors are keeping this stuff organized. --Wikid77 14:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

 copied from Talk:Hoboken, New Jersey: 

Though the contribution is appreciated, a road map of New Jersey's major highways and mention of nearby towns doesn't seem to add much to the article. The other map, which seems standard for Wikipedia, may be less colorful, already indicates Hoboken's location within the state. Are there strong objections to removing it, or at least making it smaller and re-locating to a different section, such as transportation???? Wouldn't a map of the city itself be more approprate? Djflem 10:29, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think we nearly have consensus against the inclusion of this map in municipal articles. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 14:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * 19-Aug-2007: To User:Djflem: The map, although showing some major highways, is about providing context of the Geographic location, and the map illustrates the following nearby text in that "Hoboken" article:


 * "Hoboken is located at 40°44'41" North, 74°1'59" West (40.744851, -74.032941).GR1 and lies on the west bank of the Hudson River across from the Manhattan, New York City neighborhoods of the West Village and Chelsea between Weehawken Cove and Union City at the north and Jersey City (the county seat) at the south and west."


 * Note that "Hudson River" and NYC, Weehawken, Union City and Jersey City (mentioned) are all shown on that map, at that point in the article. As for size, I have reduced the regional map to the top-half of New Jersey with state borders.  For maps to be readable, alongside the text, they need to be "larger than a postage stamp" (which might be okay for buildings/cars/etc.).  And yes, people have complained, "the regional map was too small to be useful" so seek balance. On balance, note how the map (only 295px width) is readable alongside the Geography text above:  it shows the named places without requiring another webpage display, then allows the user to continue reading/scrolling the page.  For people with vision trouble, they have the option to display the full-size map webpage, but others can just read along by scrolling.


 * As for a city-map, yes, that is also needed, using multiple pre-selected maps as displayed by http://www.city-data.com. Such a city-map could put Hoboken in the center and show edges of neighboring city limits, then major local streets (not just Interstates/highways).  Again, www.city-data.com provides both city-limit & regional maps, together, but Wikipedia can't compete against that level of workmanship [yet], so let's focus on the easier regional maps, first.


 * The current location of the regional-map is actually best: there was some blank space near the "Hoboken" Table of Contents, which preceded the Geography section mentioning those map locations: an ideal pairing of space available near text relating to the map. I think a city-limit/street map would be better located under a "Transportation" section, in the sense that bus routes and nearby towns would be connected by local streets (not just Interstates/highways).  Houston, Texas has express buses that skip many local streets by hopping on/off Interstates.


 * As for making the map smaller, I wonder if local residents are bothered by maps of their towns, so the regional map should be structured to connect as a thumbnail to avoid local people fuming (about that "darned map image"). As you know, travel maps are huge: fan-folding a map while riding in a car can be a major nuisance, so maps generally tend to be large due to the vast amount of information they add to an article (as viewed by an outsider, perhaps not the local POV).  -Wikid77 09:14, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I do not know much about all the computer tech stuff you've mentioned, so sorry, I can't respond to that. I can say that the map which you are proposing is very "Jersey-centric" and offers no perspective to the location, role, history, context to the NY Metropolitan area. How can a map not indicate Manhattan, the Hudson, Brooklyn? If it seems important to have such a map can it at least be of the region? For example, 50 mile radius from Times Square, or something? How can you show a map that put Pennsylvania, New York, and CT as vague, obscure, places? Come on... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Djflem (talk • contribs).

Sorry I didn't sign off last time: but my concerns grow greater. The role of Hoboken, and Hudson County in general, are minimalized by presenting a NJ map. The location, culture, history, and impact of the city and it's residents cannot be defined by the map proposed. I find it to be poor and misleading information when not contextualized.Djflem 06:13, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

21-Aug-2007: To User:Djflem: I have created a "draft" Hudson-County towns map (Image:Map Hudson County NJ municipalities.gif, in the style of Jim Irwin's county maps from Dec. 2005), and I agree that showing the county area is needed, especially since the towns are so close (there are no rural pastures separating the towns). I also agree about showing a more NJ+NY regional map (not just Jersey-centric), with more than just showing "Staten Island" labeled as I had added. Each map added to each article reveals more constraints and issues to handle: I finally agree with the notion to keep most maps small because the hidden-TOC and resizing with wide-windows can format text better around smaller images. You had already suggested (above, 18Aug07), "Wouldn't a map of the city itself be more approprate?" and I finally found those Jim Irwin maps that show rough city-limits for each town in a county. That is why I created the Hudson-County towns map. Now note, that other states have cities that span multiple counties/parishes (such as New Orleans), but the towns-within-county mapping seems to work for NJ. Also, few places in the country have the problem of massive cities such as New York & Philadelphia as border "towns" prompting the need for multi-state regional maps. (Weehawken would be very different without the tunnel to NYC.) I agree with your concept about the Jersey-centric issue, just as El Paso, TX should map with Juarez, Mexico due to the combined presence. Thanks for the suggestions; I have very limited time, but changes are coming. -Wikid77 20:07, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I know you're trying, but this new map is awful quality. Why would it be used instead of Image:Hudson County, New Jersey Municipalities.png or Image:Hudson County, NJ municipalities labeled.png?  Here's a summary of the problems:
 * No information of provenance of map.
 * East Newark and Gutenberg are different colors. What does this mean?
 * The lines between the labels and the locations are green for Gutenberg and Union City, but black for East Newark. What does this mean?
 * The map uses a strange projection and appears squished vertically.
 * The blue line appears to show a water boundary, but does not match known boundary in other maps.
 * Why does only Jersey City have lakes/ponds/streams present? Where is this data from?
 * The labels for different municipalities use different fonts/sizes.
 * GIF format. This is only suitable for animations.  For static images, GIF is considered deprecated in favor of PNG.
 * The color fill is not correct. There are irregular white edges on all the filled surfaces.
 * Inappropriate for municipal articles because it does not specify which municipality the article is about. Compare to Image:Secaucus nj.png.
 * I appreciate that you are trying, but these maps really need to go. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 20:50, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Example mapped city articles
19-Aug-2007: Some NJ town articles have regional maps, but also in Swedish Wikipedia towns:


 * A few New Jersey articles show a regional map of nearby towns: Hoboken, Weehawken, Union City.
 * See Swedish Wikipedia for city/map of "Stockholm" (capital city: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm), town "Uppsala" and town "Kalmar" (versus English Wikipedia: Stockholm, Uppsala, Kalmar). The Swedish articles use tiny maps, perhaps more evidence that maps should appear small for user-chosen magnification, rather than burden all users with large maps. -Wikid77 21:29, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

See more map discussion above: Putting NJ..map in towns. -Wikid77 09:06, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Hiding TOC
19-Aug-2007: I've noticed, this weekend, the Table-of-Contents (TOC) "[hide]" option has been fixed to allow shrinking/hiding the TOC detail lines. This change will require reformatting thousands of articles to auto-reformat image/text placement, but we knew this day would come, and so it has. I have begun editing articles, with explanation "Allow HIDDEN Table of Contents.." noting, for each article, the changes to allow Hide/Show TOC. An easy fix is to stack the earlier right-side images/tables (as a series of "Image:" and table definitions) near the top of the article, depending on top paragraphs to provide filler text. The text-clipping glitch has NOT been fixed [yet] for small-then-large image stacking; otherwise, make images similar size or put smaller images after large. Images later in the article should auto-reformat fine, as is, without moving them. -Wikid77 21:46, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Noted: Eclipsing of text (when wider images are stacked after narrow) has NOT been fixed: stack images in wider-then-narrow order. -Wikid77 09:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This is either a CSS problem in the browser or a CSS definition problem in the MediaWiki CSS. This in not in the scope of WPNJ.  --ChrisRuvolo (t) 12:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Peer Review
Hello all, I'm new to this WikiProject and to Wikipedia itself. I've created a page about the New Jersey Transit Police Department and I was wondering if I could get a peer review from the people in this project. I would greatly appreciate comments and constructive criticism. Seeing how this is my first artice I still have quite a bit to learn! (Rebel3986 03:37, 29 August 2007 (UTC))

Cemetery
Please voice an opinion as to whether the cemetery should be deleted from Wikipedia at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of burials at Bayview Cemetery, Jersey City. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 19:58, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Geography of New Jersey is this week's WP:ACID winner
This falls under our project, therefore, we should be able to muster up a lot of information that can help improve this article. Lets work together while this article received the ACID attention.-- ZeWrestler  Talk 19:59, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Peer review for Pulaski Skyway
I reorganized and partially rewrote this several-year-old featured article, and would like comments on whether I did a good job. Please comment at Peer review/Pulaski Skyway/archive1. --NE2 01:18, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Problematic new maps
Recently new maps have been added to NJ municipalities by, a bot operated by. These new maps are in many ways deficient compared to the previously existing maps. Consider the following maps for the New Egypt, New Jersey CDP.

Here is the situation as I see it:

In short, these new maps are vastly inferior to the older maps. They should be bulk-reverted IMO. Arkyan, in the future, please work with the relevant wikiprojects to avoid the replacement of more correct maps. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 16:41, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I noticed an additional problem. Some maps of townships that have overlapping CDPs are not highlighted at all. Example: Lyndhurst, NJ. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:42, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't agree more with your analysis of the issues. In every case I've seen, the maps are inferior to what existed before, in terms of content. With counties where JimIrwin had created maps, they're far inferior. The JimIrwin maps also label adjoining counties and states, among its other benefits. The Arkybot addition of infoboxes was a big plus for this project, but the maps are a step backward. Alansohn 23:22, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * They can be reverted, then - it's no real problem. From a technical perspective you might have to wait a little bit, it might take me several days to write up a modification that will allow the bot to go back and revert to the pre-existing maps without reverting the infoboxes, but I'll get on it. ɑʀкʏɑɴ 02:27, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Arkyan. I appreciate your understanding and your willingness to reverse the map changes.  I'd very much like to have improved SVG maps generated by your bot, and can work with you to get there.  Let me know what I can do to help.  Thanks. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 21:34, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'd be happy to take a look at it, although it'll have to wait a few weeks while I finish up with the other state maps, but I'll give you a buzz when I'm ready to see what we can do about at least moving from raster over to vector graphics here, too. ɑʀкʏɑɴ 05:48, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Arkyan, any progress on getting these maps reverted? Thanks. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 14:12, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedian Meetup across the Hudson
This will be the second of the meetups with a session dedicated to discussing meta:Wikimedia New York City issues (see the last meeting's minutes).

In the morning, there are exciting plans for a behind-the-scenes guided tour of the American Museum of Natural History. We will also have activities scheduled after the session, with dinner at a local restaurant and (weather permitting) some late-night astronomy thrown in.

Assistance requested at Central Jersey.
Experts, local knowledge, and reliable sources are requested for the Central Jersey article. Please see recent edit history and the talk page. Thanks. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 04:21, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Taylor
A long time ago, I created stub articles for many folks named John Taylor, including John Taylor (Taylor Ham), and the Taylor Opera House in Trenton. The opera house article was just given a "proposed deletion" tag and I cleaned it up and removed the tag, but I thought people interested in New Jersey might have more to add to the article on the Opera House and the man who created it, to stave off future deletion attempts. Please have a look and expand and reference them if you can -- thanks! &mdash; Catherine\talk 17:48, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Article has been expanded with additional details and sources. It will be diligently monitored on my watchlist. Alansohn (talk) 04:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Removal of non-municipalities from county templates
A series of edits over the past several days have removed information for non-municipalities from some of the templates for New Jersey counties, most notably that of Template:Essex County, New Jersey, (see this edit for details), which sites the fact that "this is not done anywhere, no reason for Essex County to be different" as justification for removal. As pointed out to the editor involved, this information reflects a long-standing consensus for New Jersey's templates, all the more at issue as the information had been added to the template almost two years ago. The question proposed is "should information for communities that are not municipalities be retained on the templates for New Jersey's 21 counties?" Alansohn (talk) 04:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Neighborhoods notable enough for an article (and all CDPs) should definitely be linked on the templates. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 23:34, 3 January 2008 (UTC)