Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Nonviolence

Mission statement
At the inception, the mission statement had 4 bullets, which I just changed to a numbered list so we can discuss them easier. I see #1 as our main task and #2 also as important. #3 will occasionally be necessary. But I'm not happy about the wording of #4. The first half of it until "by" is already part of #1. The second half, "expanding all stubs to start-class and improving all start-class articles to B-class at least" may be something others write in their mission statement, but is that really something we want to do? There's a ton of work waiting for us, why should we dedicate the little time we can spare between grad school and other tasks on articles like Non Violence (not to be confused with Nonviolence), or Pacifism as Pathology: Notes on an American Pseudopraxis (which are currently marked as stubs)? I think some stubs may just as well remain stubs. &mdash; Sebastian 22:53, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

First task
What should we start with as a team? Here are some proposals: Please feel free to add your own proposals. &mdash; Sebastian 22:53, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Distinction between different NV articles:We have an alphabet soup of distinct, but closely related articles about NV and related concepts. I'd like to find a way to bring some order into them, which would involve renaming, merging, and splitting of the articles. See the discussion at Talk:Nonviolence.
 * Work on our flagship article, Nonviolence: said that that article "misses the point" and "is not really about nonviolence". See Talk:Nonviolence.
 * Distinction between NV advocates, leaders and scholars: This involves understanding some 120 articles and sorting them in the right category, as well as agreeing on what categories we may need in the first place. See Category talk:Scholars and leaders of nonviolence, or nonviolent resistance.


 * A suggestion has been made at Talk:Nonviolence to merge Nonviolence with Ahimsa. This would fit to the first two proposals at once. However, it seems particularly complicated. We would need a well working cooperation for that. It might be easier to start with something less grand. How about if we tackle Satyagraha instead? &mdash; Sebastian 15:14, 30 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment - Ok, I guess I was invited to comment here. To my understanding, Satyagraha is not non-violence but a method to protest without violence. We can include a brief about that as well, but I don't think a merger would be necessary. But if all of it can be explained by Nonviolence, I'm okay with a merger too. As far as Ahimsa is concerned, it essentially means non-violence only. So I don't get the logic behind having two separate articles until a clear distinction is explained with good sources. Now, since Ahimsa is GA, I suggest, we can start with adding content from there to Nonviolence with due credits to original editors. When the nonviolence article will start getting shape, it would become easier to decide on a full merger. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  15:34, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Capankajsmilyo, to follow my invitation so swiftly. I agree with you that satyagraha is a method like nonviolence. Whether it can all be explained by the Nonviolence article I'm not so sure anymore; I now see that my comment there was hasty. It was also not a good idea of mine to direct the conversation to another location, as it is now divided in two. It would be better in one place; any of the three locations would do:
 * Talk:Nonviolence, where you originally posted the message.
 * this talk page here
 * Talk:Ahimsa. This would fit best to the current discussion, which pivots around the article Ahimsa.
 * I would like to merge the conversations into one of these pages. Any preference? &mdash; Sebastian 17:38, 30 October 2017 (UTC)


 * If you ask me, Id prefer Talk:Nonviolence. Ahimsa and nonviolence has almost equal traffic. Default talk page of merge template is the talkpage of destination. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  02:11, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Articles to work on (eventually)
Last year I spent some time collecting articles that have to do with nonviolence. I then grouped them into categories. The categories can be changed. The articles can be moved. This is just a start. A work in progress. Kingturtle (talk) 02:21, 28 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Wow, that looks like a lot of work - already for compiling that list! Thanks for doing that. I'm moving that list to WikiProject Nonviolence/Articles, which will allow us to keep it up to date. It will also double as a way to see what's going on in our area, by checking related changes. &mdash; Sebastian 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Some specific articles
Draft dodger. Lead paragraph reads: ''A draft dodger is a term that refers to a person who avoids ("dodges") the conscription policies of the nation in which he or she is a citizen or resident by leaving the country, going into hiding. Avoidances involving nonviolence or conscientious objectorships are sometimes referred to as draft evasion or draft resistance.'' There are a few things that might be tried to a) change name to either evader or avoider and/or b) improve content. CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:04, 5 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Would United States and state terrorism be in the category or just in antiwar? Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk)

Incorrect category listing
This template seems to be generating a category listing, as per Talk:Civil_resistance on Category:Nonviolence. Please advise or rectify. nirvana2013 (talk) 19:26, 12 September 2010 (UTC)


 * This sounds like it refers to Template:WikiProject Nonviolence, but that template does not contain a reference to Category:Nonviolence. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something? Unfortunately, nirvana2013 has not been active in recent years, so it would be good if someone else could help. &mdash; Sebastian 17:51, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Lessons learned
From my mistakes today, I learned valuable lessons, which may explain why coverage of nonviolence is such a tangled thicket here. I am by no means a scholar in the area. I'm just someone who has heard of and is fascinated by nonviolence. Nonviolence is such a valuable concept, which also makes a lot of self-evident sense, that it is tempting to contribute in a way that employs more OR than in other areas. That is, in effect, a form of hubris, albeit a well intended one. Conversely, this means that it is also hard to criticize others for their OR. In the past, I found it helpful to abide by a set of principles and I could convince the members of another project to abide by certain principles for all project members. Here, we would not need the same principles, but I think another one would be worthwhile: Humility, that is, freeing ourselves from the illusion that we know the subject matter. That also means more discipline in avoiding OR. Is this something we project members can encourage each other to do, in a compassionate manner? &mdash; Sebastian 18:34, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

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