Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive 122

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Free access to RIPM
Hello all! The Wikipedia Library has just launched a partnership with RIPM to offer Wikipedians free access to this archive of music periodicals. Please sign up for one of the 20 free accounts at WP:RIPM. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:27, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Request for semi-protection at Whistle Register?
Please read and comment at Talk:Whistle register 4meter4 (talk) 03:17, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I feel your pain, 4meter4, but in my experience, requests for semi-protection are generally only granted if the page has been subjected to IP/new user vandalism on an almost daily basis for a lengthy period or if it has been subject to serious BLP violations. They won't apply it to articles like this where people "in good faith" add poor or unreferenced material. My suggestion would be that several of us put the article on watch and remove any inappropriate additions with an edit summary explaining the reason for the removal. It's also a good idea not to simply "undo", which triggers the red notice to the person who has added the material and invites a return to a page they may not even be watching after the drive-by edit. Better to open the editing window and remove the problematic material manually. I've edited the edit notice to:
 * I've also moved it to the top of that section for greater visibility. Voceditenore (talk) 17:41, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I've also moved it to the top of that section for greater visibility. Voceditenore (talk) 17:41, 5 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for clearing that up and lending a hand.4meter4 (talk) 23:31, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Musician notability discussion
Members may want to comment at Wikipedia talk:Notability (music). – Voceditenore (talk) 17:16, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

R.I.P. Jon Vickers
As most of you have probably seen in the news, tenor Jon Vickers has died. His article is in bad shape and is likely to get a lot of traffic this week. The following news articles could be used to cite and improve the article if anyone is interested: Best.4meter4 (talk) 20:40, 12 July 2015 (UTC)


 * It looks like User:Kudzu1 has done a nice job cleaning up the article. Kudzu1 has also nominated the article for in the news section on the main page. Please consider commenting at In the news/Candidates.4meter4 (talk) 17:50, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I added refs from Bayreuth and the MET, - both could be used more, - my time is limited, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:45, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I have a general question: when I mention an opera with a link, I don't link to the composer, to fight the "sea of blue". I don't think someone interested in the singer desperately needs a link to Wagner while there is one to Die Walküre. Are there project guidelines, or is it another matter subject to the editor's preference. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:06, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * There are no project guidelines, just common sense, and, I suppose, editors' preferences to some extent. But I agree with you, Gerda, I almost never link the composer when there is a link on the opera closely following it, and the opera itself is the main point of the sentence. It's really overkill and especially for "big" names like Wagner, Puccini, Verdi, Mozart, etc . Voceditenore (talk) 08:06, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Would you have a look at Vickers which had few composers to start with, but now has them all linked? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:00, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Gerda. Yes, there is too much composer linking there. But I suggest not doing anything about it until it gets off the Main Page. It just causes kerfuffles. I actually added another link... on Covent Garden. I wish people wouldn't just baldly use that without a link as if everyone knows that "Covent Garden" is what the in-crowd call the Royal Opera House. Lots of people, even ones who listen to opera and/or aren't entirely unfamiliar with it, don't know that. Interestingly, there is something about that in the OP Guidelines. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 07:16, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Vickers added to ITN recent deaths 16 July --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:29, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Les contes d'Hoffmann
I have a number of images without attribution to acts, so I thought I'd come here to check:

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b85274984/f3.item.r=Les%20contes%20d%27Hoffmann%20Offenbach is the prologue, not the epilogue, right?

Is http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b85274984/f5.item.r=Les%20contes%20d%27Hoffmann%20Offenbach the Antonia act, or is it the Olympia act sans the spectacles?

Is http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b85274984/f2.item.r=Les%20contes%20d%27Hoffmann%20Offenbach identifiable at all as to act?

Is http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b85274984/f1.zoom.r=Les%20contes%20d%27Hoffmann%20Offenbach is the Giulietta act? There's some elements of the staging that are a little confusing, but I can't think of any other duel, let alone an important one.

Adam Cuerden (talk) 20:25, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm going to guess prologue based on the clock in the corner, but it's pretty hard to tell, I think.
 * That's the Olympia act, harpist and all.
 * Caption says the 2nd act divertissement. Is this from a larger document where we can see which of the acts is act II in this version?
 * Definitely Giulietta act, check out the canals!
 * –Roscelese (talk &sdot; contribs) 20:39, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, the third image is from 1881, which might help, but I'm not sure if the prologue is being counted. I have an Antonia image - http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b85274984/f9.zoom.r=Les%20contes%20d%27Hoffmann%20Offenbach  -  so, it's not too vital we get that one, given we have a good Olympia, and I don't want to stuff the page with images, after all. I shall get a chance to see the opera in Autumn, but I haven't yet, which doesn't help with these kind of things.  Adam Cuerden (talk) 20:51, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if we can't tell which act it's from, it probably isn't a very useful resource for the reader either! I like that Antonia-act pic. –Roscelese (talk &sdot; contribs) 21:13, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * All the colour images by A. Lamy (Prologue, Olympia, Giulietta) are now done and in the article. Antonia will follow. Adam Cuerden (talk) 14:34, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

21st Century Baritones
The article on the baritone voice type needs to be updated to include prominent singers of the 21st century. SpiritedMichelle (talk) 02:02, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi SpiritedMichelle. The article is about the voice type. Not a list of "prominent" baritones, which is potentially endless and a subjective judgement. We took the decision a while back to eliminate the name lists of "prominent singers" from the voice type articles. See this discussion in the archives. List of operatic baritones might be a useful addition to create, provided it contained more information than Category:Operatic baritones, e.g. listing by century with brief descriptions for each entry, and you don't mind it growing huge. Everyone thinks "their" baritone (or in some cases the baritone himself thinks) they're prominent. Voceditenore (talk) 06:22, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Update project
Thank you for updating the project page regarding templates. How about a different composer than Verdi to illustrate the side navbox? Perhaps a word about that a side navbox is not needed when a bottom navbox is there? (That is a dangerous comment which can get you arbcom restricted but if it is made on a project page and now it should be safe.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:54, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I spent quite a long time yesterday and the day before adding Category:Opera templates to all the horizontal navboxes. Before, it was very difficult to find them all. Per your suggestion, Gerda, I've also fixed the project page to show more apt examples of each type of navbox in situ. As for your second point, one could just as easily say that a bottom navbox is not needed when side navbox is there, and several members do feel that way. At the moment there is no clear consensus either way. Hence, I'm leaving that out. Attitudes seem to be gradually and (in most cases) peacefully shifting amongst the editors here. However, I am not in favour of forcing this issue. The world is not going to come to an end if we have a fairly lengthy period of transition when not all opera articles will look exactly the same. Voceditenore (talk) 06:45, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Category:Opera world premieres at the Royal Opera House
I am uneasy about this category, since the Theatre Royal at Covent Garden only became the Royal Opera House in 1892. As a consequence we have, e.g. Artaxerxes (opera) categorized as premiered at the ROH, which is misleading to say the least. I suggest a new category '...premieres at the Theatre Royal, Covent Garden' for operas premiered there before 1892....opinions?--Smerus (talk) 06:41, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * You'd need a clarification note at the top of the two category pages, Smerus. On the other hand (I always have several hands), all those categories are potentially misleading and requiring better documentation. Plus, splitting them will lead to very small categories. For example Cesare e Cleopatra was certainly not premiered at what is now the Berlin State Opera. So a separate category for Königliches Opernhaus, Berlin? And what about Category:Opera world premieres at the Opéra-Comique? That company used several different physical theatres, each of which had several name changes in the course of its history. In fact, I'm wondering how useful Category:Operas by world premiere location really is, as opposed to a properly documented list format, e.g. List of works premiered at the Teatro Capranica (some of which are not operas). Voceditenore (talk) 07:08, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes clarification at head of course. I am inclined to agree with the 'list(s) of...' suggestion, Vdt, but not sure if I can face the hassle of CfD.....The 'Opéra-Comique' situation could perhaps be dealt with by changing the cat name to Category:Opera world premieres by the Opéra-Comique. In fact, the generic problem resides in the loose interchangeability between premises name and company name.--Smerus (talk) 10:12, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Have now made two categories and allocated.--Smerus (talk) 20:54, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Operalia 2015
The Operalia 2015 contest was just held in London and the winners have been announced. The names of the winners need to be added to the contest page. SpiritedMichelle (talk) 03:32, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Ambroise Thomas
File:Wilhelm_Benque_-_Photograph_of_Ambroise_Thomas.jpg

Since this rather came out of nowhere - was poking in the article today, thought I'd quickly check if bigger copies of any of the images were available, found a much bigger, higher-quality copy, and did the whole restoration in a few hours - I thought I'd put this here for the benefit of Thomas fans. =) Adam Cuerden (talk) 07:06, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
 * A beautiful restoration, Adam. Thank you! Voceditenore (talk) 11:08, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

RIP Alan Curtis
Article of Alan Curtis (harpsichordist), discoverer of operas, might offer more, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:26, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Teresa Parodi
Hi all, I just noticed that we have an article on modern singer Teresa Parodi. But none on the 19th century soprano of that name that warranted her own biography and was a rival of Jenny Lind in New York. She was very close to Giuditta Pasta and her husband. Anyone want to give it a go?4meter4 (talk) 00:21, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting lady, 4meter4! I've started Teresa Parodi (soprano), placed suitable hatnotes on both articles, and will expand the soprano (so to speak) over the day. Voceditenore (talk) 07:00, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Wonderful! I've mostly finished with writing an article on the Max Maretzek Italian Opera Company. Articles on Max Strakosch and the Max Strakosch Italian Opera Company, the other company Parodi headlined, are on my to do list. Hopefully I can get to them before I'm out of wiki world again in mid August until who knows when. Best.4meter4 (talk) 16:12, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

List of opera companies
The contents of the List of opera companies was so utterly random, and so badly reflected the quoted criterion (six fully-staged productions a year) that it's hard to believe that anyone has really looked at this list in years. The fact that there are but 13 German companies and as many as 11 US companies listed says much. I've completely removed the table of individual entries, so the page now just directs readers to the List of opera companies in Asia, Australia, and Oceania, the List of opera companies in Europe etc. Scarabocchio (talk) 12:00, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Hermann Oswald
A tenor with a considerable discography is up for deletion.4meter4 (talk) 21:12, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Stub was just started today (not by me), will be expanded, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:35, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

August /September Composer of the Month
Since noone else did it, I've set these up. Adam Cuerden (talk) 11:58, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Let's get next month sorted. How about Auber for the composer? Adam Cuerden (talk) 02:32, 2 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Auber is fine by me. I would like to follow my suggestion of operas based on Shakespear's The Taming of the Shrew. Martín y Soler's La capricciosa corretta has been recorded and has a Spanish language wikipedia article es:La capricciosa corretta. Likewise there are recordings of music from Ruperto Chapí's Las bravías. Both operas have multiple references available for view in google books. Philip Greeley Clapp's The Taming of the Shrew (Clapp) has an entry in the Dictionary of English Operas which is available for view in google books. I have access to reviews of performances of Vittorio Giannini's The Taming of the Shrew (Giannini) in The New York Times archives and there are several good references available in google books that are viewable. Dominick Argento's Christopher Sly (opera) has an entry in the Encyclopedia of American Opera which is available for view in google books. None of the other operas mentioned seem all that promising. On a side note the Met archives have no mention of John Kendrick Bangs' Katherine: A Travesty and I am wondering if the world premiere at the Met claim in The Taming of the Shrew article is in fact accurate. Best. 4meter4 (talk) 03:27, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I think we have enough for all of these save maybe the Katharine. So Auber as Composer of the Month, Taming of the Shrew adaptations as Operas of the Month?
 * I'd be inclined to skip Katherine - it's at best a ballad-opera, and is pretty heavily based on rewritten Gilbert and Sullivan. Offhand, https://archive.org/details/katharinetravest00bang We can see:
 * Opening song's tune is indeterminate. It's followed by the typical rhyming dialogue of 19th-century burlesque - the section from "To Padua I've always wished to come" is the start of the dialogue by my reckoning.
 * "Two little dudes from Pisa we" is "Three little maids from school" from The Mikado.
 * The Etiquette Song that follows some more dialogue is "If somebody there chanced to be" from Ruddigore. Barely changed in spirit at all, even if it is rewritten a bit
 * Another close paraphrase "For he's going to marry the shrew" is "For he's going to marry Yum-Yum" and "The threatened cloud has passed away" from the Mikado Act II Finale. (The songs appear in both Mikado Act Finales, but, offhand, it looks to fit the Act II better)
 * The Act II opener looks really familiar in its meter, but it's not entirely obvious.
 * "Oh the maids, the maids of Padua" (pg. 30) is another obscure one.
 * The Latin song, Arma virunque cano" (pg. 37) isn't obvious. Lyrics consist of random Latin thrown together, it could honestly fit anything.
 * "I am the very embodiment" is clearly "The law is the true embodiment" from Iolanthe.
 * The duet "My friend I tell you" mightbe a chopped up "Refrain audacious tar" from H.M.S. Pinafore, but I'm unsure, and there's likely a better fit.
 * "When he's married to the shrew" might be the opening from "Loudly let the trumpet bray" from Iolanthe, chopped up a little, but it seems a little off for that
 * Act III opening is a rather bad rewriting of "Fair is Rose" from Ruddigore.
 * "I've reached the sage conclusion" looks like it might be one of the patter songs.
 * "Extra, extra" is probably "Hail the bridegroom hail the bride" from Ruddigore, given it's immediately used in the same joke of people obnoxiously repeating the opening chorus at every mention of the right words. Though it needs a lot of massaging. in the later sections, so it might mix something else in. Which was common in these burlesques.
 * "As someday it may happen" is "As someday it may happen" from Mikado
 * "And now good night" is obscure.
 * Much of this is obvious, but we'd need actual cites. And, of course, it's possible not everything comes from G&S. But we already have six definite borrowings, out of fifteen songs, and a couple possibles. Could well be grabbing from other opera, of course, I mean, the "Tarantara" song might well come from some military song from Offenbach or Donizetti. The Latin song might be a school song. etc, etc. But I doubt one note of music is original. Adam Cuerden (talk) 06:25, 2 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Auber as Composer of the Month for September and Taming of the Shrew adaptations as Operas of the Month sounds great to me. I'm off to deepest darkest Tuscany tomorrow and will be there for a month. I'll have some sort of (but not fab) internet access, and will check in here every once and and while. Happy summer to all. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 08:20, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Tailleferre chamber operas
Four of Tailleferre's chamber operas all premiered together in a cycle of operas written for radio entitled Du style galant au style méchant (including Le bel ambitieux, La fille d'opéra,  Monsieur Petit Pois achète un château, La pauvre Eugénie) on December 28, 1955 in a performance by the Radiodiffusion-Télévision Française. Each opera in the cycle parodies a different operatic form or style. It's obvious these pieces were written to be performed together, and I think an article on the opera cycle itself with redirects from the opera titles to the opera cycle would be a better way to handle this topic. Please see this French language source for confirmation.4meter4 (talk) 15:17, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I just went ahead and decided to be bold and create an article on the cycle. I won't create redirects until others comment here.4meter4 (talk) 15:39, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I think your solution is brilliant, 4meter4. OK back to the suitcases. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 15:42, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Photos of opera singers
Way too many articles about prominent and important opera singers today have no photo of the subject. These articles include Dolora Zajick and Joyce DiDonato. This needs to be worked on. SpiritedMichelle (talk) 02:02, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

GA review for Auden
MusicAngels (talk) 18:28, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Santa Fe 2015
The list of operas performed at the Santa Fe Opera needs to be updated to include the 2015 season.SpiritedMichelle (talk) 04:58, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

La capricciosa corretta‎
Hi all. User:Battleofalma recently created an article on one of the operas of the month. It's clear it was a copy paste job of the spanish wiki article (complete with the info box from that page with the spanish language wiki template format which did not work on the english wiki. I therefore removed the template). The article is rife with grammar errors due to an obvious babel fish translation. It is also entirely unreferenced.4meter4 (talk) 01:17, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I've completely rewritten and referenced it properly. I'll expand it with a performance history, brief synopsis, and role table in the next couple of days. The Spanish Wikipedia version was pretty poor in itself. It's generally better to create an article from scratch rather than translate an inaccurate, poorly referenced stub from another Wikipedia. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 14:05, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I completely agree. Thanks for the re-write!4meter4 (talk) 17:31, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Apologies, made a start with the intention of a rewrite based on existing text, but then had to go somewhere. Thanks for the work inbetween now and then.Battleofalma (talk) 12:48, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The irony of all this is that La capricciosa corretta‎ is not based on The Taming of the Shrew at all. All they have in common is an obnoxious female protagonist who eventually gets her comeuppance. But never mind :). Voceditenore (talk) 14:07, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting... I had based its inclusion on the mention of the work on The Taming of the Shrew wikipedia article. Just goes to show that one should never assume. Should that opera be removed from the article on the play?4meter4 (talk) 22:36, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I've removed it from the article now. The misconception is repeated in several sources (generally by Shakespeare specialists rather than opera specialists), including the source used in the Taming of the Shrew article) and not helped by the fact that Bampton Opera's 2006 production of La capricciosa in English was titled The Taming of the Shrew. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 09:12, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

AfD discussions

 * Articles for deletion/Rush Tully
 * Articles for deletion/Nandani Sinha

Voceditenore (talk) 13:17, 8 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Both closed as Delete. Voceditenore (talk) 12:02, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Azer Zeynalov
I noinated this opera singer for a speedy deletion because it is an unreferenced blp. It may be this singer is notable, but given his nationality it is unlikely to find verifiable references. If you care to rescue it by adding refs I would applaud the effort. Best.4meter4 (talk) 22:55, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi 4meter4. Using the form of his name from the article on the Azerbaijani Wikipedia, I found a big article on him marking his 50th birthday. It appears to be from a fairly major Azerbaijani publication. Google translate gives enough of the gist to verify the key facts in the article and establish notability. So, I've removed the BLP PROD tag. I've listed it for translation clean up, though. The English is pretty dire although not as bad as La Capricciosa was. Some clean up can be done even by non-Azerbaijani speakers, e.g. "Cakomo Puççini "Toska" - Kavaradossi" Voceditenore (talk) 08:44, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

'Non-notable' names in opera articles
I have just had some singers' names which I added in good faith from a reliable source removed for a second time from the article on André Messager's La Basoche. Leaving aside the 'one-revert' rule, given that large numbers of 'non-notable' names (in the sense of not linked to a WP article) not to mention places or works of art, exist across many opera articles, I just wonder if any Opera Project members have comments on this issue? (or should this practice only apply to La Basoche?). Thank you. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 15:57, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I see that the names occurred in the prose description of various productions, and the one who removed was User:Ssilvers, a long-term and trusted user. I don't know La Basoche and feel that unless the roles are minor, those singers should be reinstated. Perhaps Ssilvers could weigh in on his rationale. - kosboot (talk) 17:49, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * For original productions (and sometimes for major revivials), a full cast list is given in articles about musicals and operettas, but in brief descriptions of minor revivals, only blue-linked notable names are usually mentioned. In this case, the productions involved were revivals at Monte Carlo and at  at Enghien-les-Bains Casino in the 1950s.  As far as I can see, neither of these revivals were of particular significance, so it only makes sense to mention the notable cast members.  By contrast, the Broadway production of 1993, which Traubner identifies as one of the most important productions of this operetta, does not mention *any* cast members at all, so if we want to give important information to our readers, someone with access to the New York Times archive, such as User:Kosboot, should add the notable names from that production, instead of adding non-notable names from less important productions. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:02, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion User:Ssilvers - London & NY casts added. - kosboot (talk) 20:07, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Kosboot. I added the conductors but removed the chorus roles. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:35, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your replies. These are rules for opera articles that I was not aware of, either in theory of practice. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 17:03, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I note that Louis Noguera, besides being mentioned in the cited source, has a rather lengthy article in Kutsch & Riemens Grosses Sänger-Lexikon (2003, p. 3377). IMO, two such sources are sufficient reason to say he is notable and can be mentioned (and wikilinked) and not having been written up on the Wikipedia is insufficient justification for removing the name. --Robert.Allen (talk) 08:17, 20 September 2015 (UTC)


 * In the end, it's a matter of consensus. I am personally in favor of WP:WTAF. -- Softlavender (talk) 09:02, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Since WP:WTAF refers to entries in lists, "See also" sections, navigation templates, and disambiguation pages, I'm a bit unsure whether you agree that's OK to mention Louis Noguera and/or have his name redlinked in this article. If not, then redlinks would almost never be permitted, so why do we have them? (As an aside, I don't agree that a production iin Monte Carlo of a French work is necessarily so insignificant. It's a venue with an international reputation.)  --Robert.Allen (talk) 10:51, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Not exclusively. The first sentence reads "Wikipedia editors should write a new article before they create links to that article elsewhere in the encyclopedia." (Bolding in the original.) As Ssilvers mentioned, in brief descriptions of minor revivals, only blue-linked notable names are usually mentioned. Thus in this case I would go with WTAF. And as I stated above, in the end it's a matter of consensus, and I personally would go with the widespread existing practice of only listing blue-linked names in brief descriptions of minor revivals. That's why I mentioned WTAF: If you want to write an article on that person, by all means do, and then the consensus would probably be to include it in that brief description of the minor revival. Softlavender (talk) 11:06, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Christina Johnston
Members may want to comment. She has performed Adele in Die Fledermaus and the Queen of the Night in The Magic Flute in performances at the Prague State Opera. See here. Her website also mentions some other notable projects, including a recording made this past June with the Prague Symphony Orchestra in which she was a featured soloist and portraying Zerlina in Don Giovanni at the Estates Theatre this Summer. In August 2012 she was a soloist with the Berlin Philharmonic. She has also appeared as Olympia in The Tales of Hoffmann at the Kazan Opera House in Russia. She placed 4th in the finals at the International Mozart Competition in Salzburg. This one might be rescued if sources can be found. Best. 4meter4 (talk) 04:17, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Closed as Keep, although frankly I'm dubious. I've removed the unreferenced blather. It's now a stub, but at least one with 2 proper refs and no more claims like Her voice that soars above the clouds. Her high notes are higher than most singers ever dream to reach.. Geesh! Voceditenore (talk) 11:50, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Cleared the entire GA Review backlog for Media and drama

 * 1) Thank you all to all our editors who help to contribute to Quality improvement efforts on Wikipedia related to WP:OPERA.
 * 2) I've helped to clear the entire GA Review backlog for Media and drama, which can be seen at Good article nominations/Topic lists/Media and drama.
 * 3) I'd like to make a suggestion, here, which is optional, for you to please consider:
 * 4) Suggestion: This suggestion is optional only, but I ask you to please at least read over the Good Article review instructions, and consider reviewing two to three (2-3) GA candidates from good articles nominations, for each one (1) that you nominate. Again, this is optional and a suggestion only, but please do familiarize yourself at least with how to review, and then think about it -- as a way to pay it forward.

Thank you,

&mdash; Cirt (talk) 06:43, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Albert Reiss
File:Albert Reiss LOC ggbain-25651.jpg

Don't think I'll be counting this towards my Verdi project - it was for someone else - but reckon the community may be interested. He was the creator of several roles in major operas, most notably probably Nick in La fanciulla del West, though that may just be my love of Puccini showing through. Adam Cuerden (talk) 02:20, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Featured now. Adam Cuerden (talk) 02:14, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

commons:Category:Costumes for the original production of Benvenuto Cellini by Paul Lormier
Documentation of something like this is not fun. Still, will be useful, methinks. Adam Cuerden (talk) 15:35, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Great addition and really nice work, Adam! --Robert.Allen (talk) 02:44, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It was just one of those things where I saw them, thought about adding them to my list - then saw they were in the article in a form that was so much worse than we could now get, so I had to act. (This probably goes without saying, but, just in case: Obviously, these are better, but beyond the fact that Gallica ony started making images readily available at high-resolution fairly recently, I would never want to criticise uploading and using something just because something better was found later by someone. I would hope no-one would interpret my statement as such, but I just would like that to be clear. By the way, if anyone wants a guide to using Gallica, poke me. Lots of good stuff on it. Adam Cuerden (talk) 00:40, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Michael Sylvester
This article is being discussed at Articles for deletion/Michael Sylvester. Voceditenore (talk) 10:33, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Kept. Nomination withdrawn. Voceditenore (talk) 09:34, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Opera today
... is - as you probably know - Il ritorno d'Ulisse in patria, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:36, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
 * And I've already reverted one of the many vandals who just love messing up any article that appears on the main page. Mr. Cluebot, the mechanical vandal fighter, has been busy there as well. Voceditenore (talk) 12:53, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you, also for the sources for Sylvester (above)! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:16, 4 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Holy Cow! this user is a nightmare! Can someone else keep an eye on this article. I'm soon off for the night. Voceditenore (talk) 17:06, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks to Antandrus, at least one of the miscreants will now be taking a 24 hour "rest". Voceditenore (talk) 17:27, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

David Hamilton (tenor)
This article is being discussed at Articles for deletion/David Hamilton (tenor). Voceditenore (talk) 13:01, 4 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Result was Keep. Softlavender (talk)

List of major opera composers
This is now being discussed for deletion at Articles for deletion/List of major opera composers (2nd nomination).--Smerus (talk) 12:19, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Raffaele Cardone for deletion
This article on a notable subject is up for speedy deletion. It should be deleted as stands, but the subject is worthy of an article.4meter4 (talk) 23:43, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Wow! What a blatantly promotional autobiography! I must credit the creator for persistence. It had been previously deleted in 2008 and twice more in 2011. I've whacked out almost all of it and added some references. I'd say he scrapes notability, but that's all. Voceditenore (talk) 02:47, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Thanks for stepping in.4meter4 (talk) 03:15, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Sanne Bjerg needing assistance
Hi all. I just removed a prod for deletion from the wikipedia article on opera librettist and opera director Sanne Bjerg. The article does need sourcing and cleanup if anyone cares to lend a hand. A google books search revealed reviews of her works in Opera and Opernwelt magazines among other publications. I think this article is worth saving.4meter4 (talk) 00:00, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I've cleaned it up and added some refs. Should be OK now. It's viable stub. Voceditenore (talk) 01:42, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Good work!4meter4 (talk) 03:15, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Tenor William Johns
Just noticed that William Johns redirects to an article on writer W. E. Johns. Wikipedia could use an article on Wagnerian tenor William Johns who portayed Siegfried in The Ring Cycle at the Met and the Bayreuth Festival to name just a few notable performances. Here is his bio at Operissimo concertissimo which relates an impressive international career. 4meter4 (talk) 16:43, 25 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Like William Johns (tenor)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:19, 25 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't think the dab is necessary. William Johns should be about the opera singer and not a redirect.4meter4 (talk) 17:23, 25 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I agree that the DAB isn't necessary, 4meter4. Just turn the redirect into the article about the tenor, and at most put hat notes on it and the one about the writer. The redirect has only one incoming link and even that one is piped. Voceditenore (talk) 17:48, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Opera Repertory of the Salzburg Festival 2015
This article was just created by User:Meister und Margarita... I personally think the content should be merged into the Salzburg Festival article.4meter4 (talk) 01:20, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * This article seems way over the top -in effect is is an WP:ESSAY, with no sources or citations. There is nothing appropriately 'encyclopaedic' about the repertoire of music festivals or other artistic venues: we don't for example have lists of the repertoire of the Royal National Theatre. Nor should WP feature cast lists of opera or theatre revivals unless there is some very specific reason. And why on earth is it illustrated with a large photo from the 2014 season? If an article on this topic cannot be justified (and I don't think it can), what is relevant in the 'history' section of the article should be incorporated into the Salzburg Festival article - if, and only if, it can be properly sourced. The rest should be jettisoned.--Smerus (talk) 13:54, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * We do have some repertory lists. They can be useful as supplements to the main article. See List of operas performed at the Wexford Festival and Opera North: history and repertoire, seasons 1978–79 to 1980–81 (and its companions linked from here).
 * However—and this is a BIG "however"—unlike the Salzburg article, these are properly sourced, far more succinct, and devoid of peacockery and personal opinion. In addition to being entirely unsourced and reading like a personal essay, the Salzburg article is full of value judgements and comes across as very promotional even if that was not the intention. The other problem is the very confusing table layout which in addition to being way too detailed is a simultaneous morass of red links and overlinking. I agree re jettisoning what is unsalvageable/inappropriate and merging the rest to Salzburg Festival, but it would probably be better to discuss this with specific proposals at Talk:Opera Repertory of the Salzburg Festival 2015. Voceditenore (talk) 14:01, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I have copied the above to the article talkpage and there proposed the measures suggested by VdT.--Smerus (talk) 17:10, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with the sentiments above. I didn't mean to suggest a full merger of content, but a brief and succinct mention of the scheduled 2015 works in one sentence. A well referenced article along the lines of List of operas performed at the Wexford Festival would be a welcome addition if any editor feels so inspired. Best.4meter4 (talk) 22:42, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

At the last minute, the creator of the article has objected to the merger - see Talk:Opera Repertory of the Salzburg Festival 2015. Would any interested editors care to comment there, please?--Smerus (talk) 05:02, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I have made a proposal at Talk:Opera Repertory of the Salzburg Festival 2015. Members may wish to comment.4meter4 (talk) 19:43, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

AfD: Opera Repertory of the Salzburg Festival 2015
This article is being discussed for deletion at Articles for deletion/Opera Repertory of the Salzburg Festival 2015. Voceditenore (talk) 12:10, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Image use in The Marriage of Figaro
There is a discussion taking place at Talk:The Marriage of Figaro and in the section beneath it. Voceditenore (talk) 08:37, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

FLRC notification
I have nominated List of major opera composers for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Giants2008 ( Talk ) 00:38, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Baby and bathwater
Re the recent discussiob about The Marriage of Figaro I am glad that the pix of the Dresen production have been removed. However, I see that for the illustration in the 'opera box' top right, the old rather bug-eyed pic pf Mozart has been replaced. I do feel that it is perhpas appropriate for such boxes to feature some scene from a (preferably) early production of the opera, rather than for all of them to carry a portrait of the composer. Any views?--Smerus (talk) 13:40, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Absolutely agree (not so much about "(preferably) early production"). Johnbod (talk) 13:51, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * There is currently a discussion at Talk:The Marriage of Figaro. If you want to suggest using the old navbox with a different image as an alternative to the infobox, that's the place to suggest it, although I personally think that's a very inferior solution. I would be happy to elaborate on that point there. Voceditenore (talk) 14:55, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed, Smerus. Contemporary pictures are frequently available. –Roscelese (talk &sdot; contribs) 20:36, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * OK I've added my ha'p'orths at Talk:The Marriage of Figaro--Smerus (talk) 08:04, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Kiril Manolov
This article is being discussed for deletion at Articles for deletion/Kiril Manolov. – Voceditenore (talk) 10:17, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Closed as "Keep". Voceditenore (talk) 07:09, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Help needed on voice type articles
Special:Contributions/67.235.145.203 has been changing the vocal ranges on all the voice type articles. I reverted the change on Tenor on the basis that no source was provided for the change, but vocal ranges and their notation are all a mystery to me. Could someone who knows what their doing check the IP's other contributions and revert if necessary? Voceditenore (talk) 16:50, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I reverted all of them. The sources cited in the article say what they say.4meter4 (talk) 04:29, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Many thanks to 4meter4 and Michael Bednarek (who mopped up the stuff re-added to Tenor by the IP). Those articles drive me crazy SMirC-crazy.svg. Voceditenore (talk) 07:08, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Conductor templates
It seems that Category:Orchestra conductor templates is not for individuals, although Plácido Domingo is somehow in the category. I am wondering if templates such as Arturo Toscanini should exist. I just created it to see what it would look like. Do we want conductors to have templates like these.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:22, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I am going to go live with this template since there are no objections.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:32, 24 October 2015 (UTC)