Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive 124

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Falstaff
What a great way to start a new year: Falstaff, Tim riley's "valediction to the late John Webber, who edited WP as Viva-Verdi" and "knew a hundred times more about Verdi", - "Tutto nel mondo è burla ... Tutti gabbati! ("Everything in the world is a jest ... "). - In other word: we easily overestimate our importance and better make music ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:48, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 6
Newsletter • January 2016

Hello there! Happy to be writing this newsletter once more. This month:

What comes next

Some good news: the Wikimedia Foundation has renewed WikiProject X. This means we can continue focusing on making WikiProjects better.

During our first round of work, we created a prototype WikiProject based on two ideas: (1) WikiProjects should clearly present things for people to do, and (2) The content of WikiProjects should be automated as much as possible. We launched pilots, and for the most part it works. But this approach will not work for the long term. While it makes certain aspects of running a WikiProject easier, it makes the maintenance aspects harder.

We are working on a major overhaul that will address these issues. New features will include:
 * Creating WikiProjects by simply filling out a form, choosing which reports you want to generate for your project. This will work with existing bots in addition to the Reports Bot reports. (Of course, you can also have sections curated by humans.)
 * One-click button to join a WikiProject, with optional notifications.
 * Be able to define your WikiProject's scope within the WikiProject itself by listing relevant pages and categories, eliminating the need to tag every talk page with a banner. (You will still be allowed to do that, of course. It just won't be required.)

The end goal is a collaboration tool that can be used by WikiProjects but also by any edit-a-thon or group of people that want to coordinate on improving articles. Though implemented as an extension, the underlying content will be wikitext, meaning that you can continue to use categories, templates, and other features as you normally would.

This will take a lot of work, and we are just getting started. What would you like to see? I invite you to discuss on our talk page.

Until next time,

Harej (talk) 02:53, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Danny Bacher
Since many of you have experience with wikipedia's music notability guidelines, I would appreciate comments and opinions here whatever they may be. Best.4meter4 (talk) 20:24, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Amalia Carneri notable?
This article was recently created... not sure if it would pass an AFD. Thought I would bring it here for comment before nominating.4meter4 (talk) 02:08, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Clearly a minor singer, singing mostly in provincial houses. Though the article says she made recordings, none show up in Worldcat. I gather her descendants created the article for there seems to be as much information about them than about her career. I'd say AfD. - kosboot (talk) 03:17, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Someone is working determinedly hard on the article, but still her biography is only 2 sentences long. - kosboot (talk) 13:16, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

AfD I would say. She is there I guess because of her death (otherwise would scarcely register at all) - but that doesn't alas make her intrinsically notable. --Smerus (talk) 13:54, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * This is a tricky one. You can actually find documentation for several of her recordings on the Zonophone and Odeon labels, you just have to look under multiple renderings of her first name. e.g. Amelie, Amalie, and Amalia. So arguably she passes Criteria#5 of WP:MUSICBIO. There's what looks like more stuff under the spelling "Amalija" in Slovenian, . She's from a time period when a lot of material will simply not be available online unless you were very famous instead of just mildly notable. Having said that, a lot of the family stuff has no reference at all, including her own dates and places of death and birth. Voceditenore (talk) 15:41, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * User:Ipigott has done a nice job cleaning up the article and referencing it. I think she is notable enough based on the recordings. She meets Criteria 5 of WP:MUSICBIO. Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:54, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the recording convince me that she's notable. Still, her career gets a single sentence, and her death gets another, both unreferenced. - kosboot (talk) 15:57, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I had my doubts too but when I began to look into it I found all kinds of stuff. The original author also has lots of news items. I have suggested she should expand the article on that basis. I know Vienna well and am familiar with its history. The singers she sang with in her recordings are generally well covered on-line. However, as a Jew who was not born in Austria, her press coverage up to the 1930s is not very rich. We hope to expand the article further.--Ipigott (talk) 17:26, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

I beg to disagree (somewhat) with VdT that the subject "passes Criteria#5 of WP:MUSICBIO". The article cites eight recordings of individual songs or arias, mostly where Carneri is singing in duet with another. None of the others by the way seem to be notable or have articles. And the citations are just - and purely - that; listings with out any comment on the quality, value or significance of the recordings. It gives no indication of Carneri ever having sung a major (or even minor) role at any opera house. Criterion 5 states "Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable)." It is more than arguable that Carneri does not meet this criterion (certainly no "albums".) I don't want to make a huge thing of this, but if we accept that Carneri is notable then virtually anyone who made any recording on (e.g.) Zonophone is notable. In addition I woulsd point out that despite sterling work by Ipigott the article contains virtually nothing (and that little completely unsourced) about Carneri's life and her achievements (if any). Her death is also unsourced. And much of the article is a long list of (alleged) newspaper clippings without any insight or reference as to their contents, and yet listed as 'references' - without such enlightenment this section is useless and should be deleted. I think it would be valuable to put this article up for AfD to get some wider consensus on the concept of notability and its applicability in this (and potentially similar) cases.--Smerus (talk) 11:03, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Smerus, those were very early recordings before the rise of major record labels. A record could often only hold one or two songs at that time. Holding it to the same standard as modern recording artists is ridiculous logic. Frankly, anyone recording during the advent of early records during the first decade of the 20th century is notable because of its historical significance. They were pioneers. Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:38, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * 4meter4, it's not me extending logic; it's me going by the criterion, and not asserting my own WP:OR opinion of it. By your logic, indeed, anyone on an old 78 deserves a WP article - I beg to differ. It's not for us to selectively bend the standards - that way could lie madness. We've seen plenty of AfD's of non-notable singers who may have had a bit part in an opera, or have appeared on a recording. Living a hundred years ago and/or dying in the Shoah doesn't give such singers a passport to notability - unless the guidelines change. And I'm still waiting to see any citations for the few claims made about Carneri's career, such as it was. Best,--Smerus (talk) 17:57, 20 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Deep down I really do believe this singer does not deserve an article but I'm assuming good faith. For comparison here's an article on a singer who I've known about for a long time, first from the Pertile Aida where he plays "A messenger." Apparently he never graduated to more advanced roles, but--I guess--because he was dependable in such roles, he has a lot of recordings: Giuseppe Nessi.  I really don't think he's notable enough to deserve an article either, but there it is. - kosboot (talk) 18:18, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Can I just clarify that I am absolutely not questioning the good faith of any editors involved in this article, only suggesting that the article is in a very grey area as regards notability: I would myself say not within the parameters. Nessi hits the Oxford Concise Dictionary and has a gaggle of appearances on recordings which are themselves of notable quality; I would give him the beneift of the doubt. The acid test of all this would be to put the Carneri article (or the Nessi article as well if you like) on AfD so that editors who are not opera bores like us can give some disinterested opinions.--Smerus (talk) 18:33, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree that the Carneri article is very borderline with virtually zero verifiable biographical information. Smerus, if you feel it should be discussed for deletion, go ahead and start an AfD. But pleeeeeeease do not start one on Nessi. He has the Oxford dictionary entry, a fairly lengthy entry in The Grove Book of Opera Singers, and created multiple comprimario roles in operas, including Pong in Turandot. Check his incoming links. It would just be waste of everyone's time. Voceditenore (talk) 19:25, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I only mentioned Nessi to tease. I will get round to Carneri when I have a moment.--Smerus (talk) 19:54, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Now nominated for AfD.--Smerus (talk) 12:06, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Grand Opéra Paris?
I've run across several sources that refer to the Grand Opéra Paris. Is this another name for the Paris Opera or a different company altogether? If so a redirect might be helpful. Best.4meter4 (talk) 02:54, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I haven't come across a source using exactly this title. One might expect it to refer to the Paris Opera company or its predecessors. But there are problems in a redirect. The Paris Opera uses both the Palais Garnier and the Bastille as locations. I can conceive that the term 'Grand Opéra Paris' could apply specifically to the Palais Garnier building. So I think if you want to list the term, a disambig would be more appropriate than a redirect. In which case you might also want to list there the term Grand opera.--Smerus (talk) 10:35, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * 4meter4, were those US and/or 19th-century sources? They tend(ed) to throw "Grand Opera" around rather loosely. I think a redirect might be a bit dicey. Voceditenore (talk) 19:29, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I've most often run across this term in German language sources such as the Bavarian Dictionary of Musicians and Operissimo concertissimo; often on 20th and 21st century singers who are still around.4meter4 (talk) 20:14, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Interesting! I checked the German Wikipedia and there de:Grand Opéra Paris does indeed redirect to de:Pariser Oper, i.e. the Paris Opera. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 06:58, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Douglass opera
We now have Frederick Douglass (opera) and Frederick Douglass (Ulysses Kay opera). Shouldn't Frederick Douglass (opera) be a disambig page pointing to, say, Frederick Douglass (Kay opera) and Frederick Douglass (Moore opera), with the article titles being changed accordingly?--Smerus (talk) 18:37, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Smerus, I agree with the renaming of the Moore opera. Hatnotes can take care of a situation with just two variants. But if someone wants to make a wider disambig page, there are plenty of other additions possible . Voceditenore (talk) 19:34, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
 * It's somewhat silly to disambiguate a disambiguated page. What should be happening here is that Frederick Douglass should have a note at the top linking to a disambiguation page on his name, and THAT should link to the operas. At the moment, the operas are effectively unsearchable unless you guess they might be disambiguated - putting "Frederick Dougllass" into the search boxes will take you direct to the page, as it does for any exact title match. Only wa to search is to go to the advanced search page. Adam Cuerden (talk) 10:03, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds right.--Smerus (talk) 13:29, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I've been bold. Hope I haven't messed up. I've created Frederick Douglass (disambiguation) with a load of other Frederick Douglass stuff including the two operas, moved the Dorothy Rudd Moore opera to Frederick Douglass (Moore opera), redirected to Frederick Douglass (disambiguation), and checked and fixed all incoming links to it. Interestingly, both Ulysses Kay and Klara Barlow (who created the role of Douglass's wife in Kay's opera) had erroneously linked to Moore's opera under its old title. Voceditenore (talk) 16:55, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Evviva VdT!! I've also added the new disambig page to Frederick Douglas....--Smerus (talk) 17:51, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Good work! That should sort out all the issues. Adam Cuerden (talk) 18:24, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Merger proposal Chicago Civic Opera / Chicago Opera Association
A merger of these two pages has been proposed. Members may wish to comment.4meter4 (talk) 06:11, 24 November 2015 (UTC)


 * This proposal is still on-going at Talk:Chicago Civic Opera. Voceditenore (talk) 07:56, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Ciro in Armenia
I've dug up as much as I can on this work. The article's still pretty short, but of enough significance that I think it warrants an article. Hopefully one of you may have access to other sources with more information. Best.4meter4 (talk) 16:21, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Added info from the libretto.--Smerus (talk) 18:47, 25 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you for helping!4meter4 (talk) 20:15, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
 * the link to worldCat (note 7) doesn't work. Best, --Smerus (talk) 11:45, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Fixed it.4meter4 (talk) 13:12, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Emily Hall
I've flagged this as copyvio as it's a straight cull from her website - however she is clearly notable, and the article therefore needs a rewrite using independent sources.--Smerus (talk) 11:56, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Smerus. The the copyvio was added very recently (3 January) with this edit which also removed the refs. I've reverted it to its previous version and left a notice at Talk:Emily Hall. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:22, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Smerus, I just found your article on the latest addition to her operatic œuvre, Found and Lost. It premiered a few days ago. I now see the motivation behind the IP replacing the text of Emily Hall with a publicity blurb. Voceditenore (talk) 13:45, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks VdT. I've just added back the bit on Found and Lost (opera) which I had added to the old article. Actually I'm going to see the opera next week (got one of the very few tickets left) so may add to the opera article.--Smerus (talk) 13:47, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

La casa disabitata
Hi all. No one has yet created our second opera for the month of January. I am very busy right now and will not have time. If anyone chooses to write it, there was a modern revival at the Semperoper with the Ensemble Baroccolo in 2012. See here and here. Also, here are some other pertinent references:,. 4meter4 (talk) 15:41, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll have a go at it 4meter4, although it will be... er... short and sweet. Voceditenore (talk) 09:16, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Looks like it isn't so short. Nice work! :-)4meter4 (talk) 20:43, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I got a bit carried away once I started SMirC-smile.svg. I personally found the plot hilarious. Interestingly none of the reviewers of the 2012 revival seemed to realise that the libretto is based on an 1808 Italian farce, which was also the source of an opera by Lauro Rossi with the same name a year before Princess Amalie's and much more successful, at least in its day. Voceditenore (talk) 17:48, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

[Year] in opera
The last few 'years in opera' articles are pretty sparse (non-existent for 2015) - and maybe there are other empty/sparse years as well - could be a cause for an effort of the month some time....--Smerus (talk) 11:34, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
 * How appropriate would it be (for Black History Month) if someone could create an article on the opera Charlie Parker's Yardbird by Daniel Schnyder which had Lawrence Brownlee in the leading role. - kosboot (talk) 14:47, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that too, but what I said as well.--Smerus (talk) 16:43, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Actually, we only have 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, and 2016. There's nothing before 2010, and 2013 and 2015 are missing from the current sequence. I didn't even know these Years in Opera lists existed. I've made Template:Years in opera and added it it to the 5 existing ones so at least they can be navigated. I also have to say that I find the table format rather fiddly and off-putting. I much prefer the simple list format used at 2011 in classical music. These music timeline lists are generally an organizational mess anyway. For example 1999 in music has a separate section on opera, but only premieres are listed. Meanwhile, redirects to 2002 in music, which has separate sections on Opera and Classical music, etc. etc. I'm not sure its worth the effort to have these year in opera lists at all or to spend any time sorting out the currently highly inconsistent morass. Voceditenore (talk) 18:27, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Well should we just merge them then into '[Year] in classical music' as appropriate? I only created 2014 and 2016 because I saw 2010-2012 there.--Smerus (talk) 18:50, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I think a merge would be appropriate. The operas could have their own subsection under new works, and the artists could be added to the deaths section. Best.4meter4 (talk) 20:54, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree that a merge would be appropriate but with redirects from the Year in Opera lists. Note that Years in classical music have only started as separate lists since 2009. I think it's probably because by then, the Years in Music lists had become overwhelmingly pop oriented. See 2008 in music, for example. By 2010, the Years in Music had become simply a list of lists— see 2010 in music, Voceditenore (talk) 09:12, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * OK I will try to get round to this shortly. Done.--Smerus (talk) 09:22, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, Smerus! Much better. Voceditenore (talk) 17:50, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Astrid Schirmer
I expanded the soprano Astrid Schirmer for Women in Music and found her name here, also in publications by Boulez. Do we know if it's the same person? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:49, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I doubt if it's the same person, Gerda. According to this, the Astrid Schirmer at IRCAM was already Boulez's secretary in 1970, when Astrid Schirmer (the soprano) was still at the height of her singing career. Voceditenore (talk) 20:35, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking! Interesting coincidence, the day Boulez was pictured on the Main page ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:28, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Composers
Smerus pointed out that I should inform this project of a proposal I made at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers, meant as a compromise between those who love and hate infoboxes (I simply find them useful). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:04, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 7
Newsletter • February 2016

This month:

One database for Wikipedia requests

Development of the extension for setting up WikiProjects, as described in the last issue of this newsletter, is currently underway. No terribly exciting news on this front.

In the meantime, we are working on a prototype for a new service we hope to announce soon. The problem: there are requests scattered all across Wikipedia, including requests for new articles and requests for improvements to existing articles. We Wikipedians are very good at coming up with lists of things to do. But once we write these lists, where do they end up? How can we make them useful for all editors—even those who do not browse the missing articles lists, or the particular WikiProjects that have lists?

Introducing Wikipedia Requests, a new tool to centralize the various lists of requests around Wikipedia. Requests will be tagged by category and WikiProject, making it easier to find requests based on what your interests are. Accompanying this service will be a bot that will let you generate reports from this database on any wiki page, including WikiProjects. This means that once a request is filed centrally, it can syndicated all throughout Wikipedia, and once it is fulfilled, it will be marked as "complete" throughout Wikipedia. The idea for this service came about when I saw that it was easy to put together to-do lists based on database queries, but it was harder to do this for human-generated requests when those requests are scattered throughout the wiki, siloed throughout several pages. This should especially be useful for WikiProjects that have overlapping interests.

The newsletter this month is fairly brief; not a lot of news, just checking in to say that we are hard at work and hope to have more for you soon.

Until next time,

Harej (talk) 01:44, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Opera of the month suggestion
Might I suggest that we take operas that have had their United States premieres at the Met as an opera of the month topic for February? There are several operas at List of premieres at the Metropolitan Opera that could be picked. Also I would suggest picking operas by female composers for January to align with the Women in Music push being done this month (see here). This blog post from The Guardian might be a good place to start for operas by women composers that we are missing. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:27, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Nice suggestion. Additionally, February (Black History Month in the U.S.) is coming up - is there a list of operas by African American composers -and not to be U.S.-centric, a list of operas by composers of African origin? - kosboot (talk) 18:31, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I like that suggestion Kosboot. We could always move the Met premieres to March. Here are some references that could help generate a list of black composers who wrote operas:, , , , , , , . Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:42, 10 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Here's my start of a list based on the sources above:


 * Amistad (opera) composed by Anthony Davis
 * X, The Life and Times of Malcolm X composed by Anthony Davis - need expansion
 * Vanqui composed by Leslie Burrs
 * Blue Steel (opera) composed by William Grant Still
 * A Southern Interlude composed by William Grant Still
 * Highway 1 U.S.A. composed by William Grant Still
 * Virginia's Ball first African American opera (1868) composed by John Thomas Douglass (opera redirected to minimal article on composer)
 * The Juggler of Our Lady (opera) composed by Ulysses Kay
 * The Boor (opera) composed by Ulysses Kay
 * The Capitoline Venus (opera) composed by Ulysses Kay
 * Jubilee (opera) composed by Ulysses Kay
 * Frederick Douglass (Ulysses Kay opera) composed by Ulysses Kay
 * Harry Lawrence Freeman - includes a list of 21 operas most of which lack articles


 * These look great Kosboot. I suggest that we do operas by William Grant Still this February and save the operas by Ulysses Kay for February 2017. We could then tackle Freeman in February 2018 and then Davis in February 2019.4meter4 (talk) 20:29, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Another thought occurs to me. Are we lacking articles on composers who wrote operas who are women and or black? These would make suitable candidates for the composer of the month slots for January and February. Best.4meter4 (talk) 20:32, 11 January 2016 (UTC)


 * It's hard finding a list of operas by black women, although I think one of the sources you listed has some. Your proposal sounds good - I'll do what I can. - kosboot (talk) 03:06, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Right now the operas of the month somehow ended up in the composers of the month section. Not sure how. Any woman composer of operas would be fine to put forward for composer of the month. The month is almost half over so it would be nice to get it up ASAP. Any suggestions User:Voceditenore or User:Kosboot?4meter4 (talk) 13:32, 14 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Grovelling apologies, everyone. I was away in Italy for the end of December and first week of January and forgot to fill in January's CoM and OoM. Then I got all involved in an article about a French company that makes sirops (don't ask SMirC-crazy.svg). Anyhow, 4meter4, are you talking about the Opera of the Month for January? It did somehow end up in the Composer of the Month section. Not sure why either, but that's OK. I've just re-jigged it to make Maria Teresa Agnesi Pinottini and Princess Amalie of Saxony the Composers of the Month. I've now filled in the blank Opera of the Month for January with three opera articles for improvement all based on the unfortunate Antigone. As for any "left-over" women and their operas and/or operas about women and/or women singers, remember March is Women's History Month. Voceditenore (talk) 17:22, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, I just figured out what caused 4meter4's problem and am copying this from my talk page in case others were wondering. The labels on the "X of the Month" templates are an artefact from the olden days of the project and take some getting used to. We used to have only one collaboration, "Composer(s) of the Month", which started in 2006, primarily to fill in their red-linked operas, but its templates were prefixed Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/OotM/... Then we added a second collaboration in 2007 for "Singer(s) of the Month" for red-linked singers. That template was prefixed Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/SotM/... but in January 2009, the collaboration was changed to "Opera(s) of the Month" to focus on improving existing articles on operas and subjects related to them. Nevertheless, its template retains the Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/SotM/... prefix. Having said that, there's a fair amount of flexibility in actually filling them out and I sometimes use "Opera(s) of Month" to list red-linked operas, depending on what's been decided for the "Composer(s) of the Month". Voceditenore (talk) 18:05, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for solving that tangle. Also, no reason why we can't make another push for women and opera in March. Let's wait on the Met premieres for April.4meter4 (talk) 21:22, 14 January 2016 (UTC) then. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:22, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I have updated the composer of the month for February to be Ulysses Kay and have added Met opera US premieres to the opera of the month for February. It might be good to select a woman for composer of the month for March now while we are all talking about this. Best.4meter4 (talk) 14:35, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
 * That's great, thanks 4meter4. I note we don't have an article on his Frederick Douglass opera either. It's the one that's most likely to have a significant number of sources/reviews. I just discovered that Frederick Douglass (opera) is an article about an entirely different opera (by Dorothy Rudd Moore). Not sure how to disambiguate the title before adding it to the CoM. I suggest Frederick Douglass (Ulysses Kay opera). I don't think he's sufficiently well-known to make Frederick Douglass (Kay) or Frederick Douglass (Kay opera) viable. Both of these latter two seem confusing when coupled with a title that is the name of famous person. Thoughts? Voceditenore (talk) 15:02, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

If it helps, it should be possible to change the prefix. Might make the archives more confusing, but I'm not even sure we're documenting the archives anywhere. I'd suggest a neutral, numbered naming (Say, "CollaboftheMonth" and "CollaboftheMonth2"). I think OotM was originally, Opera, then became composer, then Singer of the Month became Opera... Oops. Better to keep it unspecified. Adam Cuerden (talk) 15:08, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

By the way, I suspect Virginia's Bal may not be a particularly good target: It's a lost opera, unfortunately. Adam Cuerden (talk) 15:13, 16 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Adam, I don't think it's worth changing the prefixes, frankly, and it's liable to cause even more confusion. We do have an archive of all the collaborations, by the way. It's at WikiProject Opera/Collaboration archive and there's a link to it at WikiProject Opera. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 15:33, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Frederick Douglass (Ulysses Kay opera) seems like a reasonable solution. I would be in support of that title.4meter4 (talk) 16:20, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

On the whole, the list looks good. I'd suggest we drop Virginia's Ball and instead put John Thomas Douglass up for improvement - It rather sounds likethe opera's very, very lost, so I suspect destubbifying the composer would be more usefuul, particularly if he has surviving works. Samuel Coleridge-Taylor's Thelma might be a good addition, and would help internationalise our work. It's been fairly recently rediscovered and performed, so there should be plenty of mateial.

I've found and restored a photograph for Still, and intend to do Coleridge-Taylor as well. Adam Cuerden (talk) 18:06, 16 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I think for this year we should narrow our focus to Ulysses Kay and his works. Those are great ideas for February 2017 Adam. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:15, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I found some info on Kay's opera Frederick Douglass. Unlike my usual method (drafting articles in my sandbox), I think I'll start this one as a stub in case others find more information (and I know there are a number of edit-a-thons set up in conjunction with Black History Month) - all in the hope of not duplicating effots. - kosboot (talk) 20:00, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
 * It's a little early for February, but here's my stub on Frederick Douglass (Ulysses Kay opera). I'm going to check the two "Pan Pipes" sources, otherwise that's what I can do for now. - kosboot (talk) 16:45, 22 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Well, File:William Grant Still by Carl Van Vechten.jpg is now a featured picture. Adam Cuerden (talk) 00:56, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

March composer and operas of the month
I would like to suggest that our composer for the month of March be Louisa Melvin Delos Mars, the first black female opera composer. She composed five full length operas which were staged in Boston and Baltimore between 1889 and 1896. We can then pick several operas by different women composers to fill the operas of the month for March, or focus on the works of one particular female composer. Thoughts?4meter4 (talk) 16:06, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm up for the challenge! Sounds interesting. - kosboot (talk) 21:06, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * It's certainly a challenge as apparently nothing of Delos Mars's five operettas still survives!--Smerus (talk) 12:24, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I wasn't suggesting writing articles on her operas but creating an article on her. There certainly is enough content to create an article on the composer which is really what the composer of the month section is for.4meter4 (talk) 15:32, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * There's a photo of here here.--Smerus (talk) 19:49, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Jean-Pierre Ponnelle
I just came across Jean-Pierre Ponnelle, linked in a DYK nom, and find it a sad article. Anybody ready to mention at least Monteverdi? Clean up the list of productions with links to scores, which are fine in the operas? - I am sorry to be busy elsewhere, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:10, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Request for comment
Members may wish to comment at Wikipedia talk:Notability (music). Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:58, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Ferruccio Busoni
It's his 150th birthday in April. The article is terrible (and has virtually 0 about his operas). I'm starting to clear it up but it will be a long haul. If anyone else wants to look/help that would be great.--Smerus (talk) 09:11, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the start, will look and hope hopefully help, but have a FAC first, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:13, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Gerda!--Smerus (talk) 10:46, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I looked. Pretty horrible. Unfortunately Italian and German are also no help. I arranged the images a bit, + captions, + fix of German names. Someone please untangle the sentence about his studies. My language capabilities are too limited, see below. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:57, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Happy Birthday, Gioachino
Tutti ti vogliono, tutti ti chiedono!

Only every four years can we wish him happy birthday on his real birthday. Voceditenore (talk) 14:30, 29 February 2016 (UTC)


 * "... un venticello" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:38, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Search template for talk pages
Found this search template for article talk pages:  JoeHebda   (talk)  00:27, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Sintax the Terrific
I know it's not opera related, but many of you are well versed in music notability guidelines and may have valuable opinions to share. Best.4meter4 (talk) 19:25, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Spam watch : streamopera.com
Commercial site based in Italy selling streamed opera recordings. This is a renewed effort from them after their last blitz in May 2015. I've just reverted 2 dozen of these links from the articles on my watchlist alone. They contain at most potted synopses, which the articles already have and each synopsis has a handy button to buy the streamed opera. I've warned the current miscreant that if they add any more, I'm going to get the site blacklisted. Voceditenore (talk) 14:27, 18 March 2016 (UTC)