Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Orienteering/Archive 1

Articles
I have enabled the article assessments table, so a manual list of articles is no longer necessary. I have also tagged a whole bunch of articles; in a few days the assessments table will be updated to include them. The Index, Statistics, and Log links above the table are helpful navigational aids. Although I tagged the articles, for most of them I did not assess Class nor Importance. Also, I have not tagged most articles about individual orienteers. --Una Smith (talk) 22:34, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅, all articles have now been tagged, if didn't miss any. The article table will soon be updated accordingly. --Kslotte (talk) 12:45, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

USERBOX
I've made a user box for the project

Should this be moved to the main page? ARBAY  TALKies

✅ This is now done ARBAY   TALKies   —Preceding comment was added at 11:31, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Another Userbox
To display this Wikipedia userbox on your own Wikipedia User page, edit your page and put the code on it. To see a list of Wikipedia users who display this userbox, go to its template page and click its What links here, or use this direct link. --Una Smith (talk) 07:11, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This userbox should be moved under WikiProject Orienteering category and placed on main page. --Kslotte (talk) 16:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅, moving is not needed according to UM. --Kslotte (talk) 12:43, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar
Should this be moved to the main page? ARBAY  TALKies
 * ✅ - moved to Wikiproject page Anonymous101 (talk) 18:34, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. &mdash; Delievered by §hepBot  ( Disable )  on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 06:13, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Stub icons
Anyone have the creativity to make icons for orienteering stubs, including it's subtemplates orienteering biography, orienteering Finnish biography, orienteering Swedish biography and orienteering Norwegian biography? --Kslotte (talk) 11:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * User Radagast added a logo for orienteering stubs, but I didn't find good looking. A black border is needed for the control symbol. --Kslotte (talk) 12:48, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * More icons is needed for the the upcoming stubs. --Kslotte (talk) 12:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Stub list up-to-date --Kslotte (talk) 19:22, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm in progress making all of these. --Kslotte (talk) 12:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ Hope you like the results --Kslotte (talk) 20:50, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks fine to me! Good job. Oceanh (talk) 00:54, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Rogaining
Rogaining has been tagged re notability and neologism. Please help rescue this article. --Una Smith (talk) 17:49, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ This aren't anymore an issue.--Kslotte (talk) 23:31, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
 * The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
 * The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
 * A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot  ( Disable )  21:12, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

infobox template in articles about orieteers
Hi! Why do you insert infobox template in some orieteers-page (e.g. Jana Cieslarová, Johanna_Allston, Jamie Stevenson, Kiril Nikolov and may be other). This template looks very bad.

Please, use MedalTable template like in Šárka Svobodná, Dana Brožková, Minna Kauppi, Valentin Novikov and in most of orieteers-articles.

Thanks for comprehension, Dnikitin (talk) 14:44, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I THINK THIS SHOULD BE A DISCUSSION THAT SHOULD BE PROJECT WISE AS SUCH I WILL COPY THIS TO THE WP ORIENTEERING TALKPAGE OKAYARBAY (talk) 15:54, 16 July 2008 (UTC) I think we all need to make a decision on this as it effects the whole project ARBAY (talk) 15:54, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

My opinion. Date and place of birth do not belong in the orienteer infobox. In fact, I don't think they belong in the article at all, at least not for orienteers who are still alive. See Biographies of living persons. --Una Smith (talk) 22:30, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Is this a consensus and do you think we should all take steps to remove this Birth data or change it so it refers just to year of Birth? ARBAY (talk) 10:41, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Biographies of living persons is a Wikipedia policy, not a guideline. It should be followed.  What relevance does birth date and place have to these orienteers' competition records? --Una Smith (talk) 14:46, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that there need not be infoboxes with dates of birth, etc. for orienteers. For most of the biographies a medal table should be sufficient. Infoboxes seem to be tailored mostly for team sports, where club membership and achievements for the club is important. Orienteering is an individual sport, and in championship relays they represent their countries, not their clubs. (Events with club relays, such as Tiomila or Jukola, can eventually be mentioned in the text, but not in infoboxes).
 * Whether dates of birth is to be included in the article, should rather be discussed at WP:BIO, and projects like this should follow common practice and policy. Reading WP:BLP, it states that information like birthdates should not be picked from primary sources, only when already published in reliable secondary sources. For notable athletes published player's profiles will often contain this information (but not always). Oceanh (talk) 18:12, 19 July 2008 (UTC).
 * Could an Orienteer Infobox be created ,so that it is tailored to the needs of this projectARBAY (talk) 11:40, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I do not see a problem with using either template. I think that Infobox Athlete is better if info like date of birth can be found at a reliable secondary source. I think MedalTable should be used when that information is not available at a reliaable secondary source. Anonymous101 (talk) 18:58, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

So should all DOB be removed ?ARBAY (talk) 11:34, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think so. At least cite only the year of birth.  --Una Smith (talk) 17:02, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

project template
I edited Template:WikiProject Orienteering to change the text on the project banner that is displayed on talk pages. Now the banner directs readers to this talk page, as well as the project page. That should help us improve participation. --Una Smith (talk) 17:12, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Are we able to still add the Assessment to-do list? I found the template someway confusing. Are someone able to add it? --Kslotte (talk) 12:55, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * ✅ --Kslotte (talk) 18:46, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Control point (orienteering)
I created the stub Control point (orienteering); please help to expand it. --Una Smith (talk) 06:38, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No longer a stub, good work everyone. ✅ --Kslotte (talk) 20:52, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

October 2008 new/improved articles
Lots of new and newly improved articles! See Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Orienteering articles by quality log for a list. --Una Smith (talk) 16:49, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Navboxes
We need a navbox for orienteering concepts, styles, and formats, but the appropriate name is occupied by a redirect to the navbox for this project! I propose changing all links to Template:Orienteering to links to Template:WikiProject Orienteering, then changing Template:Orienteering into a new navbox. --Una Smith (talk) 15:12, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Mostly done. --Una Smith (talk) 22:32, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I did quite much of linking and navbox organization, see navbox section and my 100+ contributions. Kslotte (talk) 14:59, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ Some more organization done of navboxes and categories --Kslotte (talk) 23:02, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The World Games
Anybody want to write article about Orienteering on the World Games? http://orienteering.org/i3/index.php?/iof2006/events/foot_orienteering/the_world_games

Something like World Orienteering Championships or Junior World Orienteering Championships -- included results, dates, host towns.

--Dnikitin (talk) 10:32, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * ✅ Good idea. I started an article, Orienteering at the World Games. Oceanh (talk) 01:03, 12 January 2009 (UTC).
 * Thanks, Oceanh! --Dnikitin (talk) 17:06, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Jan Kjellstrom
(Content moved to article . --Una Smith (talk) 15:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC))

✅ This is all that I can find at the moment. Twiceuponatime (talk) 10:59, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Discussion moved from main page to talk --Kslotte (talk) 13:28, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Orienteering lists
I had some thoughts about listify orienteering articles. I have an open helpdesk question about the issue. Feel free to comment. --Kslotte (talk) 23:19, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * In planing are:

--Kslotte (talk) 17:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * List of notable orienteers
 * List of orienteering nations
 * List of orienteering clubs
 * List of orienteers by nation
 * List of all orienteers


 * I like categories better than raw lists. To be better than a category, a list needs some added value.  Some comparative information for each entry, such as date each orienteering club was founded, or some such.  --Una Smith (talk) 06:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:AOAL --Kslotte (talk) 07:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Lists are an alternative to categories. --Kslotte (talk) 10:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Created clubs and orienteers in progress. Plans still to make a list of orienteering nations, based on the IOF member list. I assume there exist orienteering in countries that aren't IOF members. So, it would be a more neutral list of nations. --Kslotte (talk) 11:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Like Una Smith I prefer categories to lists, mainly because of the workload needed to keep them up to date. 'List of nations' is going to be an (almost) duplication of IOF members so probably has little or no value. List of clubs includes 'English Orienteering Council' which is a National body not a club. I am impressed with the List of orienteers although I cannot see any use for it for me. Twiceuponatime (talk) 13:21, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have an idea how we might make this more useful and interesting; please see Talk:List of orienteers.  --Una Smith (talk) 14:35, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * ✅ Lists made: International · Nations · Clubs · Orienteers (by country) · Events --Kslotte (talk) 13:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I will take a look for solutions to keep them up-to-date. Maybe taking a look at some bots. One thing is the include a 'See also' section in biographies. --Kslotte (talk) 13:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * ✅ Instructions and further development instructions filled in on talk page. --Kslotte (talk) 16:36, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Some differences compared to what planned. But I'm satisfied with the results. --Kslotte (talk) 16:36, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Template:Orienteering-org-stub
Proposing re-creation of a organization stub for orienteering, with corresponding category named 'Orienteering organization stubs'. Currently there are total of 14 clubs and 36 nation organizations. That means a total of 50 orienteering organizations. I estimate that about 25 of these meats the criteria for a stub. Any objections for a re-creation of the stub? --Kslotte (talk) 11:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I would not bother. I prefer to use the project assessment template on the talk pages to keep track of stubs within the project.  The summary table (displayed at the top of WikiProject Orienteering) is very useful.  Eg, it shows that at the moment we have two articles rated Top importance and Stub class. --Una Smith (talk) 22:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, I see. Arguments to make this change is to reduce the stub text at the bottom of the page and keep the content organized from the ordinary Wikipedia users point of use. For example Swiss Orienteering has three stub text, that doesn't seem good. I'm using AWB, so organizing pages is quite simple.


 * There should be at most one stub template in use on an article. When I find more than one, I decide which one is most relevant and delete the other(s).  --Una Smith (talk) 14:29, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Do not work against the rules set by Wikipedia. Three stubs are allowed by WP:STUB. For example in the Swiss case all are relevant, and non of them are sub-category of the others. By creating 'Orienteering organization stubs' we make it a sub-category of 'sport-org-stub' and 'Orienteering-stub'. --Kslotte (talk) 14:54, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Multiple stubs are allowed, but are not appreciated by many editors. And certainly they annoy readers.  --Una Smith (talk) 21:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I fully agree with you. --Kslotte (talk) 10:58, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Remember that new stub templates should be proposed and discussed here before creation. The general guideline says that any new stub category should have a minimum of 60 articles, which is apparently not the case here. When there are currently less than 60 articles that could use the suggested stub type, one may propose an upmerged template, which will feed into existing stub categories until there are enough stubs for a separate category. Oceanh (talk) 19:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, thank you for pointing that out. I didn't read all the guidelines, and taking the guideline being bold to seriously . The issue is than clear that no 'Orienteering organization stubs' will be created until we become near 60. --Kslotte (talk) 19:42, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * For the record, I counted the stubs to: 32 federations and 7 clubs, total 39 stub organizations. --Kslotte (talk) 21:28, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi - commenting as a stub-sorter from WP:WikiProject Stub sorting here - Una and Kslotte, please don't not remove multiple templates! Multiple stubs are actually preferred to single ones where appropriate. Up to four are allowed, and removing secondary templates makes it far harder for editors to find articles on their specialist subjects, since a single assignment to just one stub category will often remove the stub from view for editors who would be able to improve the article from another perspective. As someone who deals a lot with stub sorters and stub-related editors, I'd like to see some sort of evidence that multiple stubs "certainly annoy readers", too - the general opinions expressed to WP:WSS are that readers don't tend to mind too much one way or the other, but they are greatly appreciated by editors - as long as there aren't a huge number of them (hence the limit of four).

FWIW, my comments at the proposal are that a template would be fine but hat a category's not really appropriate given the number of stubs. If you can find 21 more, then I'd have no objection to a category (note - this is just my personal view, debate is still in progress). One final noter, on the comment about "taking being bold too seriously", please remember that that relates to articles primarily, but more caution is needed with templates and categories (see WP:BOLD). Grutness...wha?  00:58, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Discussion found here. --Kslotte (talk) 13:29, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

✅ Results --Kslotte (talk) 19:14, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Orienteering biography structure
The orienteering-related biographies are mixed with different disciplines. There could be a parallel categorizing based on discipline. Currently the total amount of orienteers are 507.

I am proposing that current Orienteers category will be renamed to 'Orienteers by country'. The new parallel category will be named 'Orienteers by discipline' and having sub-categories like 'Foot orienteers', 'Ski orienteers', 'Mountainbike orienteers', 'Fell runners' and 'Radio orienteers'.

Additionally I propose creation of a category 'Orienteering innovators' for the four names found directly in the root of the Orienteers category.

Comments, suggestions, corrections, support or objections? --Kslotte (talk) 01:55, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Orienteering innovators created. --Kslotte (talk) 10:46, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

✅ See results --Kslotte (talk) 16:38, 18 July 2009 (UTC)