Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Orienteering/Archive 2

Articles
Woo hoo, from 8 articles in this project to 58. That's a start. Anonymous101 has been hard at work tagging and assessing the articles on notable orienteers. --Una Smith (talk) 05:28, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Now 100 articles. --Una Smith (talk) 14:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I hope, tagging was made by Bot. To do it manually is crazy idea. Dnikitin (talk) 19:13, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Currently 265, there exist a total of 640 orienteering articles (559 articles, 44 categories, 23 files, 14 templates). A "few" is still untagged. --Kslotte (talk) 14:29, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ Now around 600, all done. --Kslotte (talk) 12:46, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Great job with the project tagging and assessment! Oceanh (talk) 00:52, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ooops! Check the GA requirements! In addition to satisfying the Good article criteria, the articles should have passed through a formal process successfully. There are currently two Orienteering GA's which I can not see have been through such a process. They should be nominated by an editor who thinks the article satisfies the critera (and is prepared to improve the article during the reviewing process), and the article will subsequently be reviewed by another (uninvolved) editor. Also observe the A-Class criteria ("For WikiProjects without a formal A-Class review process, the proposal to promote to A-Class should be made on the article's talk page and supported there by two uninvolved editors, with no significant opposes.") The highest assessment that can be done by a single editor is B-class (see the B-Class criteria). Oceanh (talk) 02:58, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Those (Transmitter hunting and Hand compass) have now been "classing down due to GA formalities". Feel free to contribute if someone wants to get them rated higher. --Kslotte (talk) 22:20, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Orienteering article improvement drive
As noted on the Wikiproject page, I have started an Orienteering article improvement drive to get orienteering stubs made into full articles. This week, it focuses on Raino Pesu, and it would be great if you could post suggestions for future weeks here. Anonymous101 (talk)


 * One use of the project assessments is to prioritize articles for improvement. The project has many stub articles, including some rated High. See Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Orienteering articles by quality. --Una Smith (talk) 14:38, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Orienteering
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 23:29, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * WikiProject Orienteering articles selected for Version 0.7:


 * Compass
 * Orienteering
 * Amateur radio direction finding


 * --Una Smith (talk) 17:15, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Patagonian Expedition Race
This article needs some work. I think this adventure race is probably notable (using Spanish-language media articles), but I did not find anything in English using Google News Archive search that meets the requirements of Notability other than this one article in a small-town newspaper. I don't read Spanish, so I can't check the other media references.

Links to the race's website were widely spammed across multiple Wikipedias resulting in its URL being blacklisting:
 * meta:User:COIBot/XWiki/patagonianexpeditionrace.com

We now have a request to "whitelist" the link on this Wikipedia:
 * MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist

If the article is worth keeping, we should probably whitelist the link; otherwise given its history, we should probably keep it blacklisted.

Can someone look at this article and see what you think?

Thanks, -- A. B. (talk • contribs) 00:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * This is not really about orienteering. Someone move this discussion to where it belongs. Kslotte (talk) 15:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I wasn't sure it was, either, but then I saw that this WikiProject had tagged Talk:Adventure racing with WikiProject Orienteering. Patagonian Expedition Race is about an adventure race as I understand it. -- A. B. (talk • contribs) 23:34, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * OK --Kslotte (talk) 13:28, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Some headers is needed to make it easier to read. --Kslotte (talk) 12:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Notability for biographies
I found that some of the articles doesn't meet the notability set by Wikipedia. I have also taken in consideration common sense. I my get a bit of resistant from others, but compared to other sports and taking into consideration Wikipedia rule sets we have to much biographies. Currently I have only processed names from A to N for now. It's mostly single relay silver-bronze medals and such that are marked. Please, comment. --Kslotte (talk) 11:23, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as I can judge, most of (probably all) biographies tagged 18 July, according to the list below, satisfy wikipeda's notability guidelines. Which other sports are you referring to above ("compared to other sports")? Which "Wikipedia rule set" do you refer to when you say "we have to much biographies"? Achieving silver or bronze medals at an international championship (also in relay) means that the person has been selected to represent her country to "compete at the highest amateur level of a sport", and also had success. Most of these persons have competed several times at top level and did not always achieve medals. (By the way, please remember to sign comments on talk pages, with signature, date and time, according to Wikipedia guidelines). Oceanh (talk) 21:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I admit making a bit to drastic decision and rush conclusions on this issue (I had 12+ Wikipedia editing marathon that day). I should have discussed it here a bit before marking. But what I want to achieve in the long term is some type of criteria guidelines (mostly for NEW biographies) what are the required achievements for an orienteer. Maybe a own 'orienteering notbility' template could be made. Criteria example like this:

Please, comment inline on my marks below also. --Kslotte (talk) 08:22, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Foot and ski orienteers: should have at least one individual WC/WG medal, one relay silver WC/WG medal, three EC/JWOC medals or three EC/JWOC medals.
 * Other types of orienteers: should have at least one individual WC medal (or other highest competition level). Scope can broadened once all orienteers are covered.


 * I think we should be very careful when trying to define specific notability criteria for orienteers. It is better to rely directly on Wikipedia's general notability guideline, the basic WP:BIO, and the more specific criteria listed in WP:ATHLETE, instead of maintaining specific guidelines. We should also take care not to mix the concepts of Notability and Categorization.


 * What we can do, is prepare a list of which competitions that satisfy WP:ATHLETE's "compete at the highest amateur level" of the sport. Here is my suggestion (for foot-orienteering):
 * For the period after the formation of IOF in 1961:
 * 1. The European Championships in 1962 and 1964 (organized by IOF, whose first ten members were European countries).
 * 2. The World Championships (started appearing from 1966, when more countries joined IOF, held bi-annually from 1966, and every year from 2003). The athlete should pass qualifications and participate in the final, when such apply.
 * 3. World Games from 2001 and onwards (every fourth year).
 * This list will thus exclude Regional Championships (such as the European Championships that were taken up again from 2000), Junior World Championships, and National Championships from the WP:ATHLETE criteria. However, it is important to remember that articles (biographies) can be notable by WP:NOTABILITY and WP:BIO, even if they do not satisfy the specific WP:ATHLETE criteria.


 * Obviously there will be cases where for instance Asian Champions, African Champions, American Champions, and National Champions qualify for a biographical article, but then the subject's notability should be shown to satisfy WP:BIO or WP:NOTABILITY (significant coverage in reliable and independent sources). The same goes for the period from 1897 to 1961, before the formation of IOF.


 * I fully agree with your suggestions, when it comes to priority ("... at least one individual WC/WG medal, one relay silver WC/WG medal ..." etc). But that only applies to "me" or "you", and I see no point in instructing or restricting other editors on which articles they should create. As notability criteria such a list has no "value", that is no basis in the Wikipedia guidelines. Existing biographies have often been created based on similar priorities. But for instance, I have also written biographies on persons that won medals in European Championships, and also competed in the World Championships (without obtaining a medal there), and as such satisfy WP:ATHLETE.


 * One final comment on the number of orienteering bios. If we look at orienteers from English-speaking countries, we see a total a 11 British orienteers, 4 Australian, 1 New Zealand, 1 American, and 0 Canadian. Compared to more than 10,000 British football players, 4,000 cricket players, 2,000 rugby players, to pick the most "popular" sports, tells that we should not worry about the number of orienteering biographies beeing too high, rather the opposite. And the current top, 118 Swedish orienteers, may be compared to more than 600 Swedish football players and 500 ice hockey players. No need to make arbitrary guidelines for keeping the number of bios down. Oceanh (talk) 00:46, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Valuable comments above by Oceanh about WP:ATHLETE for orienteering should be merged into Assessment Guidelines. Also comments by Arsenikk has relevant information.

Marked with notability template 18 July 2009

 * Anders Hauge (WC relay silver, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * András Hegedus (orienteer) (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Anna-Lena Axelsson (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Ari Kattainen (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Astrid Carlson (WC relay silver, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Carl Waaler Kaas (EC relay bronze, WP:ATHLETE satisfactions questionable)
 * Proposing leaving a notability tag --Kslotte (talk) 07:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: In addition to medal from EC, also competed at World Championships, and thus satisfies WP:ATHLETE. Oceanh (talk) 00:46, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I still propose leaving a notability tag. --Kslotte (talk) 10:45, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Dorthe Hansen (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Hanne Birke (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Hanni Fries (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Heidi Arnesen (WC relay silver, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Holly Kuestner (does not meet WP:ATHLETE)
 * Proposing leaving a notability tag --Kslotte (talk) 07:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: The article claims notability of the subject, saying "she is among the top female competitors in orienteering in the United States". There is certainly some truth in this, as she did qualify for and compete at the 2008 Junior World Orienteering Championships in Sweden, starting in two individual courses and the relay, and although finishing quite a bit behind the winners she was still best among the female US runners. She also competed at the 2009 Junior World Orienteering Championships in Italy, and almost qualified for the US Senior team at WOC 2009 (named the second alternate for the WOC team). At present her biography is the only one in the category "American orienteers", even the only orienteering bio from the whole American continent (except for Björn Kjellström who immigrated from Sweden and another immigrant to Canada, none of which are categorized as American). Oceanh (talk) 10:23, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * As this is the only american, I agree to to not tag her. BTW, Is there other americans with better sucess? or is she the one with most success? --Kslotte (talk) 10:45, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Irene Bucher (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Karin Jexner (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Lars Holmqvist (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Linda Antonsen (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Magdolna Kovács (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Maria Gustafsson (WC relay silver, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Martin Bagness (WC relay silver, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Maxim Davydov (WC relay silver, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Mette Filskov (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Michal Jedlicka (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Natalia Korzhova (EC relay silver and bronze, WP:ATHLETE satisfactions questionable)
 * Proposing leaving a notability tag --Kslotte (talk) 08:14, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: Competed at the 2008 World Orienteering Championships, and thus satisfies WP:ATHLETE. Oceanh (talk) 00:46, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Olle Kärner (EC individual bronze and NC individual bronze, WP:ATHLETE satisfactions questionable
 * Proposing leaving a notability tag --Kslotte (talk) 07:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: Fifth place in World Championships, and thus satisfies WP:ATHLETE. Oceanh (talk) 00:46, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Per Kristiansen (EC relay silver, WP:ATHLETE satisfactions questionable, categorized anyway as coach and innovator)
 * Proposing de-catogorizing as orienteering competitor --Kslotte (talk) 07:43, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: The 1962 and 1964 European Championships were actually "the highest amateur level of the sport" during those years. Oceanh (talk) 00:46, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, thise one is clear. --Kslotte (talk) 10:45, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Peter Ivars (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Petr Losman (WG relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Petri Forsman (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Ragnhild Kristensen (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Raila Kerkelä (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Ruth Baumberger (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Simona Karochová (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Sofie Johansson (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Susanne Lüscher (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Svajunas Ambrazas (WG relay silver, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Tomáš Dlabaja (WG relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Tuula Hovi (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Urho Kujala (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Zoltán Boros (WC relay bronze, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)
 * Øystein Halvorsen (WC relay silver, satisfies WP:ATHLETE)

List updated latest by: --Kslotte (talk) 07:43, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Uncategorized as orienteers

 * Chris Bonington
 * Chris Brasher (now in cat Orienteering innovators)
 * Babben Enger-Damon
 * Jon Fossum
 * Anders Gärderud
 * Pete Livesey


 * These are all seems OK (after an second check) with uncategorization. Comments? --Kslotte (talk) 08:11, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably fine with Bonington (Honorary President of the BOF), with Brasher as "innovator", and with Livesey (who took up orienteering in his forties). But I think that for instance National Champions should be categorized as orienteers, which applies to Fossum (and also Ivar Formo, who is not listed). Not sure about Gärderud and Enger-Damon, any choice is fine with mee, except that dit warring on the matter should be avoided. Oceanh (talk) 00:46, 26 July 2009 (UTC).
 * These persons are not known for being an orienteerer. They have other careers that they are known for. It's completely OK to mention orienteering in the articles. Ivar Formo is clear, reverted my own change. For Fossum I see that he is globally known as an politician, but locally in Norway (Norweigan Wikipedia) as an orienteer. --Kslotte (talk) 11:14, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

DYK heads up, time is short
Hook nominated for DYK:

All four articles about these orienteers were stubs now expanded 5-fold. The articles could do with a little more expansion, formatting, and copyediting prior to appearing on the Main page. That is likely to happen tomorrow, the anniversary of September 11 attacks. --Una Smith (talk) 14:29, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * One of the 4 new articles appeared in a hook on the Main page today. The rest have been nominated separately.  This has been a fun collaboration!  --Una Smith (talk) 02:07, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

The dab page Martin Johansson lists two Swedish orienteers, the older one a redlink that has incoming links from other articles. Could someone look up his date of birth and a few other details so we can make a stub and properly disambiguate these two Martin Johanssons? --Una Smith (talk) 20:10, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oceanh has made a stub for the older Martin Johannson. Thank you!  Does anyone have more information about this orienteer?  If we can expand the article to 1500 characters of prose then it is in reach of a Did You Know nomination.  --Una Smith (talk) 01:25, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

A more satisfactory source re GPS tracking at WOC 2009 is wanted for Martin Johansson (orienteer b. 1984); please see talk. --Una Smith (talk) 14:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * 1) 2009 September 18: ... that Czech Republic orienteering world champion Michal Smola joined an orienteering club at age 12 and won his first national championship race at age 14?
 * Is this really a notable thing? There exist several (100+) that have accomplished same type of achievements. For example I started orienteering at 5 and took gold one day at the largest orienteering week Fin5 in class 8 when I was 7 years old. But if this DYK is already published, so never mind. But I'm not an elite orienteerer ;) But, if he participated in the men's elite class, then I admit it is notable. If, so make the text reflect that. --Kslotte (talk) 10:32, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The DYK hook does not need to state a notable fact, only a fact. --Una Smith (talk) 14:09, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

All 4 articles now have been used in the DYK section on the Main Page, so we are done. --Una Smith (talk) 14:09, 23 September 2009 (UTC)