Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pittsburgh/Archive 2013

Intro rewrite on main article
Hi all just letting everyone know that CrazyPaco and I did a major overhaul on the intro and I added a few items to the Infobox on the main Pittsburgh article. I think everything there is good but if there is something huge we missed let us know. Hope all is well for everyone.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way  17:24, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

WP Pittsburgh in the Signpost
The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Pittsburgh for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. –Mabeenot (talk) 06:56, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Wikiproject people, I've attempted to answer the questions, but you may want to add your own answers or comment on mine. I really don't feel like I should be the sole representative voice for the WikiProject! CrazyPaco (talk) 06:09, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems like your comments are all on point. Good work.--GrapedApe (talk) 05:32, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Please let your thoughts known on ...
The structure and content of the Pittsburgh Panthers football template at the talk page.

CrazyPaco (talk) 04:06, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Three possible examples have been added in addition to the current version. Any comments and additional suggestions would be appreciated. CrazyPaco (talk) 17:36, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

All-American biographical articles needed
For those looking for ideas to work on, the new List of Pittsburgh Panthers football All-Americans has many redlinked All-Americans that could use articles. Many of the linked All-Americans are also at stub status and could use serious expansion. CrazyPaco (talk) 20:23, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting us know CP, will see how I can help!  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   16:35, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Pittsburgh Town
Do any of you guys have any comments on this article. I started it quickly last night and I don't know where to go. -- Guerillero &#124;  My Talk  20:45, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I was going to say, go to Template:Did you know nominations/Pittsburgh Town, but I see you've already been there :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 05:42, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Fantastic job Guerillero, really well done, researched and visually stimulating contribution there, and yes thanks for noticing my few additions and syntax improvements, it was a great article to polish up a fine addition!   Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   05:58, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Big News! big update jobs and possible merge
The results are in from 2010 "Pittsburgh" has grown and we are now officially a tri-state region in every sense (though the media market has long been "tri state"). Here is the link, besides adding and updating the Pittsburgh Metropolitan Area article, we also have to update sections of the Pittsburgh article, Indiana County, Jefferson, Ohio and Brooke counties and the lists of people from Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh film and television articles etc. Also proposed merging of Wheeling-Stubenville metropolitan area (since it is technically a "consolidated area" they may just want to rename that article "micropolitan area"). Could use some assists, this really does change the whole vision of "Pittsburgh" (plus the "Appalachia"/"West Virginia" thing).  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way  16:35, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait, according to your linked government bulletin, there is no change: 38300 "Pittsburgh Metropolitan Area", which consists of Allegheny, Armstrong, Beaver, Butler, Fayette, Washington, and Westmoreland. "Combined Statistical Areas" are different than "Metropolitan Areas". I think you need to be careful to make the distinction between the two different distinctions in the Pittsburgh metropolitan area article, particularly in the lead, since the article's title is "metropolitan area" not "combined statistical area". Page 8 of the bulletin warns that "Because Combined Statistical Areas represent groupings of Metropolitan and Mircropolitan Statistical Areas (in any combination), they should not be ranked or compared with individual Metropolitan and Mircropolitan Statistical Areas" suggesting that careful delineation between "combined" areas and metro areas should be maintained. CrazyPaco (talk) 20:30, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * CP, already thinking that here ;), this is great news for the region but I do share your concern about careful delineation and yes I am well aware that there is a statistical difference(very important one). That said I have moved somewhat cautiously (not suggesting deletion of Weirton-Steubenville, being clear that it is "consolidated" with most additions, etc.) because I do seek some feedback--however its my experience with such articles as Chicago metro, New York metro and Charlotte metro, etc. that wikipedia has for a long time merged a few different "metro" definitions into single pages all titled with the umbrella "(city) metropolitan area" along with their corresponding list articles.  Since your suggestion is only to maintain that delineation (I assume within existing updated articles) then yes I agree wholeheartedly but I think its compatible with the work I suggested above within those articles, and it will be work both updating everything and as you said making sure the delineation is correct.  Sorry if my excitement at the news got a bit carried away but rest assured I am not looking to become unencyclopedic, just that growing by 4 counties and 2 additional states is pretty cool for a civics nerd like me lol.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   04:58, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not suggesting additional articles at all. But the lead of Pittsburgh metropolitan area reads "The Pittsburgh Metropolitan Area is the metropolitan area surrounding the city of Pittsburgh in the U.S. states of West Virginia and Ohio and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania" which is technically incorrect on two accounts. 1) it is not just the area that surrounds the city of Pittsburgh; it also includes the city (the way it reads now it could be interpreted to exclude the city) and 2) the metropolitan area does not include WV and OH (only the Combined Statistical Area does). I'd just be careful with the definitions so as not to mislead the reader. Maybe something more like the "The Pittsburgh Metropolitan Area is a US designated region consisting of the city of Pittsburgh and  several adjacent territories that have a high degree of social and economic integration with the city." That seems to be a more technically correct definition according to page 2 of that government bulletin (you could cite it as well). Then just define Pittsburgh Metropolitan Area and the Pittsburgh Combined Statistical Area by their counties and metro/micropolitan areas, respectively, elsewhere. CrazyPaco (talk) 08:54, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Excellent suggestion on the lead in and wow that wording that seems to exclude city proper was a blind spot of mine. I did move some of the paragraphs around on that article and added some further citations since it seems wikipedia is using these types of articles as catchalls for multiple sourced definitions, having worked on this for the last few hours I have wondered if a "Tri-State" or "Greater Pittsburgh" heading may be more accurate--only it doesn't match other such wiki articles, seems even the ubiquitous Chicagoland got merged into the ill fitting "Chicago metropolitan area" (not the same thing).   Any further assists (even on possibly renaming the article or the navbox and corresponding list articles that is attached to 100s or 1000s of articles) are appreciated by all!  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   13:56, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the article title is fine for now since it matches other articles. It is "Pittsburgh metropolitan area" not "Pittsburgh Metropolitan Area", so technically by capitalization, it isn't necessarily wrong. CrazyPaco (talk) 01:50, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Good point CP, creates another pressing question that is visible on 1,000 of articles, the navbox title (have placed this), possibly the solution is the same: simply lowercase the displayed title as Pittsburgh metropolitan area however Pittsburgh Tri-State may be a better description with the update (looking forward to the future) and the other citations I have placed on the Pittsburgh metropolitan area, or even "Greater Pittsburgh". I ask because as you said placing the Navbox on CSA municipalities isn't "metro" (though Charlotte and Chicago metro navboxes seem to have done that for awhile).  Doubt something like this with the navbox can ever gain wide consensus but I am open to suggestions and if I have a blindspot here.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   12:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I would try to stay as consistent as possible....matching the navboxes or templates with the article name is probably preferable, but the others would be ok too and your reasoning is sound. As far as navbox placement, I don't think the name on the navbox infobar really matters whether it can be placed on the article. You could put a different category for MSA vs CSA or something, but that also isn't necessary. However, I do think the current "Metro Pittsburgh" in the title bar can be confusing because, at least for me, it makes me think of the city ..metro center... as opposed to the census bureau definition of metro area. That may just be me, but I would change that to something else, but all of your reasonings for the titles are sound. You could also  just rename articles and create redirects. Whatever you think is best is probably ok, just keep the two definitions clear in the relevant articles. CrazyPaco (talk) 07:16, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Good points CP, for now I am considering updating it to a hybrid "Pittsburgh Metropolitan & Tri-State Area" or possibly just "Pittsburgh Tri-State Area". I will give this a few days at least see if any editor has a better idea as a stop gap I changed it to metropolitan area, "Metro" also may be confusing to Europeans as a transit system.  Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way   20:40, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Let's make sure that we don't let people from the outlying areas (especially the WV/Ohio/Lawrence /Washington Counties bleed into the List of XXX from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. This is a census and media market designation, not necessarily a unified locale.--GrapedApe (talk) 23:15, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * An important point GrapedApe. CrazyPaco (talk) 00:45, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

WTAE userpage template
Could we create a userpage template for WTAE Channel 4? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theonesean (talk • contribs) 17:59, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's possible, but why? --GrapedApe (talk) 02:44, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Two theater related articles that could be created
I wanted to put these potential articles out there for the community since I may not have time to make the articles in the near term.
 * Kelly-Strayhorn Theater homepage, Pop City article for reference, Dance Alloy merger PG article
 * New Horizon Theater company
 * CrazyPaco (tildes are our friends☺), K-S is set, also integrated into the Theater article for the city, the city navbox and the On-this-day as well as wikilinked from Dance Alloy, and redirected Kelly Strayhorn and Kelly Strahorn Theater, anyone with images would be a great help!
 * In other news I have also added Pittsburgh Stock Exchange to the wikiverse, if anyone has any images or would like to take some of 433 Fourth Avenue and add them, it would be greatly appreciated! (Also added Eddie Dew Memorial Airpark, Jefferson County Airpark and Herron Airport, those GPS coordinates were an adventure). <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way   12:12, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Neighborhood Population Updates
Hi all, a relatively straightforward project could be updating the population data for all Pgh neighborhood articles to reflect the 2010 Census. On the City of Pittsburgh Planning Office's PGHSNAP website, all the data is organized into a spreadsheet, so the process wouldn't take too long. Would anyone like to assist? Probably only one or two extra people to help would be fine (although the more the better, I suppose).

One question for debate: should only 2010's data be used? For some neighborhoods, I think both 1990 and 2000 are currently reported. I imagine we should clean it up to just be 2010? --Best, Weatherman1126  (  talk  ) 04:02, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll help. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way   02:34, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Hat Tip Lt. Briem's blog (nullspace)
For those that know me best, I'm not the twitter, retweet, check this out type but I'm gonna make an exception on this. Its crossed my mind to put together something like this before but I never got the block of days to really do it right, glad to see someone out there has!

Pittsburgh showcased by Hollywood.


 * <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way  02:55, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Assistance with Education Management Corporation?
I'm hoping to find an editor here interested in reviewing a new section I have proposed for an article about Pittsburgh-based Education Management Corporation. Currently the article includes no section on the company's history, so I've prepared one. I have titled this section Growth and acquisitions and have added the draft to my user space here:
 * User:WWB_Too/EDMC_(Growth_and_acquisitions)

I have prepared this draft on behalf of Education Management Corporation and, because of my COI, I am looking for editors to help me review what I have written and ultimately add it into the article once consensus has been reached. So far I have received feedback from one editor, which you can see on the EDMC Talk page, but I would appreciate additional opinions as well. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 20:14, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the invite, count me in. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way  21:24, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Cool! Just saw your note, and I've left a brief reply. I'll take your points into consideration and see what I can do. More from me soon. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 23:15, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Split Kaufmann's?
What do yinz think about splitting Kaufmann's into a separate article just on the Kauffman's clock? Seems notable to me, but I'm not sure there's enough material to warrant a separate article. Thoughts?--GrapedApe (talk) 03:54, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd say there's probably not enough there for a split. CrazyPaco (talk) 06:16, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd like to see its own article but first congrats on expanding it, but should be more expansion for that specific section. Since we are on the topic there are hopefully other splits in the near future for such things as Regional_Enterprise_Tower.  BTW thanks for adding the image to Three Rivers Film Festival GrapedApe! <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way   10:55, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh yes and the airshow from Pittsburgh_IAP_Air_Reserve_Station. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way  11:03, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Allegheny County Medical Examiner
Hi all, hope things are going great for you all! I recently started the Allegheny County Medical Examiner article, it is pretty robust compared to some other project stubs however some over at the deletion noticeboard have adopted it in some page notice rally, they aren't wrong just very passionate. Any editors that wish to make some constructive edits or take part in the deletion discussion would be appreciated, I've taken a patience approach so far beyond my obligatory "premature notice" note.

Since I'm posting here wanted to thank SteelMariner for the help with the new article: List of nicknames for Pittsburgh & GrapedApe for the image at Three Rivers Film Festival, also I went live with Pittsburgh Stock Exchange, Peter J. McArdle, Economic Club of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh Mayoral Chief of Staff and a few others if editors wish to help with those. Thanks in advance. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way  03:52, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks to those who participated, seems like the deletion request has been withdrawn, special thanks to GrapedApe for participating. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way  07:51, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Article list needs update
Has anyone noticed that WikiProject Pittsburgh/Articles has not been updated in 6 years (since 2007)? That's the database that is used in generating the recent changes list for the project. I'm not a member of the project and don't plan to start doing regular Pittsburgh editing, but I just happened across that issue while sniffing around the project's pages after having recently added a little info. on the Smithfield Street Bridge. WikiProject Pittsburgh/Articles is supposed to be updated by a bot, but evidently the bot stopped working six years ago and no one has ever pointed it out to whoever-it-is that would be the appropriate person to fix it. I don't plan to do anything about this myself, because I don't do any regular Pittsburgh editing, but I do a lot of Oregon-related editing, and I check that automatically-generated "recent changes" list for WikiProject Oregon frequently. SJ Morg (talk) 05:43, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * First big thanks to bringing this to our attention. Second is this just a bot issue, a bot list or activation needs to be set in motion?  Thanks. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way   21:48, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know if that question was directed at me, but I have no idea. It really won't affect me, for the reason I mentioned above, but I just wanted to bring it to your group's attention, for your (potential) benefit. Regards, SJ Morg (talk) 10:29, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for the help SJ Morg and yes that question was intended for you but really for anyone that knows. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way   01:03, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

RFD for The Terrible Towel?!?
Should Terrible Towel be moved to its correct, official name The Terrible Towel? I think so. Voice your opinion at Redirects for discussion--GrapedApe (talk) 03:28, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

College basketball navigation templates
Please join the discussion at the College Basketball Wikiproject for forming a consensus on the creation of a basic navigation template for college basketball teams. Creation of these templates will impact articles on Pittsburgh related teams such as Pitt, Duquesne, Robert Morris and other regional teams. CrazyPaco (talk) 09:17, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Removal of succession boxes
Currently, and for quite some time, all Pittsburgh sports venues have succession boxes that allow the reader to trace the occupation of each venue by each Pittsburgh pro or college team. Recently, some of these have been removed, particularly Pitt's basketball venues, breaking the consistency across the Pittsburgh sports landscape for this navigation, particularly disrupting shared venues such as Fitzgerald Field House (Pitt, Duquesne) and Pitt Stadium (Steelers, Pitt). Previous discussions of similar issues occurred at Forbes Field's talk page. Please comment on the continued inclusion or exclusion of these succession boxes either here and/or at Talk:Pitt Stadium. Thank you. CrazyPaco (talk) 12:05, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * CP, great job staying on top of these things! I left a quick comment there and will be checking in with those articles.  Maybe it's me but I am starting to notice more and more push for deletion on many levels and in many features at Wikipedia.  I'm still holding on to a thread of AGF here but one wonders what's worse then erasing encyclopedic contributions.  Aside from the few topics above headscratcher 'speedily delete' experience I have noticed that Eckert Seamans Cherin & Mellott was put in the memory hole and then a new and improved Eckert Seamans was also banished just last month, a low priority article for me but I am noticing a pattern here of both articles and boxes being purged, and it is not good for increasing participation in the project or the encyclopedia. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way   13:08, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Here's the thing about those succession boxes...I actually don't care if they go away if they are replaced in a team nav template, or what have you. But when all Pittsburgh sports have them, and only one team is removed, that blows the consistency. They function as their own unique block of information. If it provides incomplete information, then essentially you are misleading the reader. You either have to remove them all, or not remove any. It is essentially only becomes an issue when one Wikiproject exercising WP:OWN without consideration of another project or individual differences of different topics within its own project. CrazyPaco (talk) 16:02, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

New articles
Hi all, hope the holidays are good for you. I created the wikiarticle for RIDC and provided the wikilink to the introduction of the main Pittsburgh article. Any help would be appreciated on the article, but especially pics of the research parks and the logo. I also see that we got a previous new article (Economic Club of Pittsburgh) tagged with a bunch of needed upgrades so any help would be appreciated there as well. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way  05:44, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Update, RIDC is now tagged (for speedy deletion no less) so despite the wonder of how tags are encyclopedic when anyone can edit (to improve) any and all help on RIDC is appreciated! <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way  10:12, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no way that should have been speedily deleted. That said, it should have had more third party citations and news coverage references as to better convey its notability. Here's a good article on it... 50 years CrazyPaco (talk) 06:34, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the cite, any and all suggestions at the linked to discussion will be appreciated. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way  00:19, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks all for some big help and insights, tho Economic Club still needs some TLC. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way  21:53, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅, a big thanks to GrapedApe for improvements to Economic Club as well as that other editor I am not familiar with. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way  21:20, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Stylistic question at Pittsburgh
Project input is needed at Talk:Pittsburgh--GrapedApe (talk) 04:19, 27 November 2013 (UTC)