Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics/Libertarianism/Archive 3

Navigating libertarianism on Wikipedia
See Outline of libertarianism.

Once all libertarianism-related articles are added to it, we'll be able to see Wikipedia's gaps in coverage of the subject.

Currently, the outline shows very little structure. It should show what belongs to what. Headings and indentation represent possession (or parent/offspring relationships between topics). Some outlines are 11-levels deep. So this outline has a ways to go.

For an example of a comprehensive outline that presents the structure of its subject in great detail, see Outline of Buddhism.

Most of the outlines on Wikipedia are hybrids of topic outlines (topic outlines break a subject or work down into its component topics, as opposed to sentence outlines which break subject matter down into sentences). The hybrid aspects include Wiki-formatting (headings, leads, bullets, section hatnotes, etc.) and annotations.

For examples of well-annotated topic outlines, see Outline of cell biology and Outline of forestry. The Transhumanist 07:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It seems to be just a way of avoiding what you don't like in Libertarianism. I'm encouraging speedy AfD for whole article, which would have been before if anyone had noticed it before as whatever it was. CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * This article is a few years old, there's no rush as we sort though the mess of libertarian article.
 * Someone could argue that the preface to the Libertarianism article "This article is about the political philosophy" defines a narrower scope and shows that an overview article is certainly not a fork.  BTW, I think that that preface is a  bad idea and inaccurate and should be deleted, which would resolve this question. North8000 (talk) 17:26, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * FYI. We had this discussion on making this article a disambiguation page OR creating an overview article at Talk:Libertarianism which failed when brought to the larger community.
 * Specifically:
 * This August 27, 2010 RfC rejecting just making it about Right wing libertarianism,
 * This September 9, 2010 rejected Requested move to "Libertarianism (Forms of)".
 * This September 9, 2010 rejected Requested move to "Libertarianism (Word)".
 * This September 18 rejected proposal to revert to the 2005 version which does not include material on left libertarianism
 * This rejected September 30, 2010 proposal to "remove all references to any ideology never referred to as just "libertarianism" without qualification in English WP:RS."
 * Redirection is probably the easiest until someone can convince the whole community it's needed. But AfD will do as well. CarolMooreDC (talk) 18:30, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It turned out this is part of the WikiProject Outlines which is something I had never heard of. So I just edited it to make it comport more with Libertarianism, though still needs work. CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:46, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

David H. Koch
This may not be the right place to mention this, but this article is still classified as "start" class. I'd think it's at least a C class by now. Would someone please take a look at it? -- Brangifer (talk) 19:40, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

✅ - Upgraded to C-class. I took a look, and found your assessment to be valid. --JayJasper (talk) 19:27, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Please review Articles for deletion/Aaron Tobey which concerns Aaron Tobey Richmond Airport 4th Amendment Naked Protest
and proposals being discussed there for a potential merged or more general additional article on US civilian aiport security regulation issues and public reactions, perspectives on and by foreign travelers, sociology, law, cultural phenomenology, and international context. The later detection of Fukushima radiation at US airports, which is not yet mentioned in this article, is also being discussed as a subtopic to be added into a general article. Separately from the 'criiticms' subsection on the US Transportation Security Administration alone.

Articles for deletion/Don't touch my junk is a second related AfD regarding another article which also presents a US airport bodily search protest.

A potential general article not only on protest but on efficacy, social context, and events which are of national and international note in these regards would also include breaking 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami and Fukushima I nuclear accidents news such as Japan radiation sets off O'Hare airport alarms -- CBS News Chicago station reports trace amounts of radiation clinging to flights from country ravaged by earthquake, tsunami:


 * "Trace amounts of radiation from Japan have been detected in Chicago, CBS News station WBBM-TV reports.

Travelers coming in from Japan on Wednesday triggered radiation detectors at O'Hare International Airport as they passed through customs. Only very small amounts of radiation were detected.

...Feds move more radiation monitors to West Coast...

"We are aware of the radiation," said Chicago Aviation Department spokeswoman Karen Pride. "We are adding screenings and precautionary measures."

...Radiation was also found in luggage and on passengers on flights from Japan.

Mayor Richard M. Daley and other city officials wouldn't provide any additional details, saying federal authorities were handling the situation.

"Of course the protection of the person coming off the plane is important in regards to any radiation and especially within their families," Daley said at an unrelated event." [more at] Articles for deletion/Aaron Tobey [and in the original CBS article March 17, 2011]. - Pandelver (talk) 20:17, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Libertarianism stub
I see there is not one at WikiProject_Stub_sorting, though anarchism and liberalism have them. In case anyone wants to create one. CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:24, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Portal:Libertarianism
Made quite a few changes to Portal:Libertarianism. Can this now be removed from tasks? Abel (talk) 14:53, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for working on it. I took a quick look at it.
 * The meaning of banner might escape people or invite claims of celebrating exploiting Native Americans. I like the liberty coin, which currently is too big for section it's in. Or some other image of here.
 * Category:Libertarianism in topics is redundant to section on its left. Maybe topics should be below categories, since I see it moves around as bios change?
 * I don't understand Unicode. Is this something everyone but me understands. Could you explain how others can edit? CarolMooreDC (talk) 23:23, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The meaning of banner might escape people or invite claims of celebrating exploiting Native Americans. I like the liberty coin, which currently is too big for section it's in. Or some other image of here.
 * Changed the banner to now be based on a copyright free image of a modern market, and moved the Liberty coin into Topics. Abel (talk) 12:23, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Category:Libertarianism in topics is redundant to section on its left. Maybe topics should be below categories, since I see it moves around as bios change?
 * Moved stuff around. Abel (talk) 12:23, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't understand Unicode. Is this something everyone but me understands. Could you explain how others can edit?
 * I haven't yet figured out why the edit links send you to edit / when they should send you to edit that part of the portal. If you choose edit page at the top then choose the part you wish to edit at the bottom, then it will send you to the right place to edit that part of the portal. Sorry, I was hoping to have it figured out by now. Abel (talk) 16:58, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Banner wise, the "market" aspect still too abstruse for many people; Wikimedia has some images that might be useful. A Statue of Liberty probably would be the most obvious and least debatable image. There are a variety here.
 * You probably should go to relevant technical help page per Help:Contents/Technical_information - to ask about code issue. CarolMooreDC (talk) 13:04, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks to John of Reading the coding issue is fixed. Tried to use some of the images you recommended, but couldn't work them into a good looking banner. Maybe I'm just a terrible artist, but I can't think of a way to get those to stretch to 1200 pixels without distorting everything into something unrecognizable or resizing into a huge image then chopping a chunk out of the middle but then loosing most of the image that gives it meaning. The current "modern market" version is cut from a photo in a weird polygon at an odd angle then twisted sideways to change the perspective. I see your point on the Statue of Liberty, but the Libertarian Party has tons of branding around that and so use could easily lead to confusion over the political organization as opposed to the libertarian idea. The Liberty coin is nice, but again with the stretching, I can't get it into a workable banner. Could go with a giant Ama-gi, but then would need a link to an article to explain it, actually, maybe that is a better way to go. Abel (talk) 01:34, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Finally came up with something decent for the banner, based on the liberty coin. Does that address all current concerns? Abel (talk) 14:03, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Great! Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 13:45, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Could someone smarter than me review the changes just made at Template:Libertarianism sidebar
I undid the change that same IP made at the Libertarianism article, but I wasn't sure about the template changes. North8000 (talk) 19:46, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

AfD David Gordon (philosopher)
Articles_for_deletion/David_Gordon_(philosopher). See my Keep comments also. CarolMooreDC (talk) 07:31, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Fyi, article was kept. CarolMooreDC (talk) 19:22, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Merging small government, limited government & night watchman state into minarchism article
Being discussed at Talk:Minarchism. CarolMooreDC (talk) 19:24, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Affiliation with WikiProject Conservatism
I have noticed that things have slowed down a bit here. If and only if there is agreement with your membership, I'd like to propose that WPLibertarianism become a workgroup of WPConservatism. This is not about ideology, but about resources. WPConservatism is a modern wikiproject with many technological innovations. We utilize automation as much as possible. We have a monthly newsletter, assessments/review dept., and an article incubator. We would be able to help out with administration and free up your members to grow WPLibertarianism. Many of our members have libertarian interests and this affiliation would expose our 70 members to WPLibertarianism and vice-versa. WPLibertarianism would retain all of it's pages, members, everything. WPLibertarianism could end the affiliation at any time. – Lionel (talk) 03:20, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe when conservatism becomes more radical? But seriously given that there are "left libertarians" who'd object and other libertarians don't like to be called conservatives (except small number who call selves libertarian conservatives) doesn't sound like a good idea. CarolMooreDC 04:05, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello Lionelt, I think that it is great to think of ideas like that and bring them up. But taking what Carol said even further, even the "conservative" strain of libertarianism is in conflict with the stereotypical meaning of conservatism in many areas, namely the social-conservatism issues. (Of course, the "stereotypical" meaning is not that whole conservatism picture.)  However, you could start that workgroup anyway (not changing this one) and I'd join it. North8000 (talk) 11:50, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I watched the conservative project talk page and one of their articles for a while. It seemed to me that they were very dismissive of libertarianism. And they were constantly fighting among themselves. And they could not define conservatism in any consistent way.
 * So I think such an alliance would be a mistake. JRSpriggs (talk) 02:19, 5 December 2011 (UTC)