Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics/Libertarianism/Archive 8

Militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge to be moved to Armed occupation of Oregon wildlife refuge. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 23:16, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
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Template nominated for deletion
The Template:Hans-Hermann_Hoppe has been nominated for deletion. – S. Rich (talk) 05:05, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

The discussion has been relisted for further discussion. Project members are invited to comment here. – S. Rich (talk) 08:06, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

RfC
Hello there! There's an ongoing RfC concerning Paul Singer and WP:NPOV in a broader sense, that you might care to comment on. Thank you, FoCuS contribs ;  talk to me!  01:42, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Libertarianism and Objectivism listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Libertarianism and Objectivism to be moved to Libertarianism and objectivism. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 04:14, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
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Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge to be moved to Malheur Refuge Standoff. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 15:02, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
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Center-libertarianism
There's currently a discussion at Talk:Libertarianism regarding the section Libertarianism that could benefit from some wider community input. Huon (talk) 00:37, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

AFD FYI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Libertarian_perspectives_on_natural_resources

Libertarian perspectives on natural resources

Sincerely,  North8000  (talk) 12:58, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Econlib
Don't forget to voice your opinion at MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist! Can one individual change society? (talk) 21:27, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Intersectionality article - Will you take a look?
I just added a POV tag ("The neutrality of this article is disputed.") to Intersectionality. I suggested on the article's Talk page, under Neutral point of view?, that we work on integrating critiques of this theory into the body of the article. The goal is balance, fairness, and objectivity. Please take a look to see if you might be able to help. [Note: I want to attract editors who are committed to civility, fairness, and a scholarly approach, regardless of political ideology. The objective is to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus.] Thank you! - Mark D Worthen PsyD  (talk)  23:21, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

SFL, YAL, etc
I'm looking for sources comparing SFL, YAL, etc. I have looked, but have not found any. Lemme know if you find any. Benjamin (talk) 18:23, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I hate to sound stupid, but I don't know what SFL, YAL, are or what you are asking.  Sincerely,  North8000  (talk) 00:00, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Your not stupid, just outside the echo chamber. People who focus intensely on a single subject take certain jargon for granted. The best practice is to spell out the abbreviated item when using it the first time in an article or discussion, then putting the abbreviation in parenthesis afterwords:
 * Students for Liberty (SFL)
 * Young Americans for Liberty (YAL)

The original question is interesting and I think part of the distinction is in who founded the organizations, and specific issues where there is disagreement. Searching for articles on these topics might help you find articles that compare the two. More help by editors in answering questions like this may be more available if this WikiProject were to become active. Help is welcome.--Libertyguy (talk) 03:29, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

It seems pretty clear to me that SFL is more left leaning, but I don't think any sources have said so, let alone reliable ones. I wish original research was okay... Benjamin (talk) 05:21, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
 * In searching for articles about both groups, the only ideological difference I could find was that YAL appears to be more candid on specific issues, while SFL sticks to broad statements on philosophy. They both claim to be the largest liberty groups for college age people, which demonstrates the need for secondary and tertiary sources. If there is a difference you find by original research, then perhaps you can find the source of what you observe.  If this is from direct conversations, ask the speaker where he or she gets the information that the opinions are based on.
 * I observe a negligible amount of attention paid to left vs. right libertarianism in the movement, and a tremendous amount of debate between minarchist and anarchist libertarians. Please read my reply to North8000 under, "Reviving this semi-active WikiProject."--Libertyguy (talk) 17:00, 7 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I think SFL is larger than YAL, but YAL is the largest in the US. SFL is thought to be more left leaning because it tends to host more left leaning speakers, and its membership seems to tend to be more left leaning, and YAL calls itself "traditionally conservative", but saying so would be WP:SYNTH, wouldn't it? I don't know why there are no articles on it. Benjamin (talk) 07:43, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
 * There's also the fact that SFL tends to overlap with C4SS, a left anarchist think tank. But again, I'm not aware of any good sources. How frustrating. Benjamin (talk) 02:20, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Reviving this semi-active WikiProject
I noticed the "semi-active" tag on the project page and seek to change this status. There are several articles related to libertarianism that are being edited. Some have maintenance templates and need to be improved. I notice one article listed under "AFD FYI" has been deleted, and I recently participated in an AfD for an article that was not listed here that resulted in deletion. I don't know if a more active project would have made a difference in those cases, but anyone interested in this topic would like to see higher quality articles with reliable sources. Reliable sources and article quality improves the chances of articles on notable subjects remaining in Wikipedia. Participation by knowledgeable editors will improve the clarity of articles. Editors need to have a quick way to locate tagged articles so they may make the suggested improvements.

Please help revive this project. Today I archived the 2016 discussions to streamline this talk page.--Libertyguy (talk) 04:12, 3 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Cool. A couple of suggestions there. The most lively libertarian place  (limited as that may be) is the libertarianism article.  Perhaps we should encourage discussions not specific to that article to occur here. Second, I think that an area that needs discussion and work is the names and organization of the main sub-articles.   Right now they seem to be focused on IMHO marginal terms left and right libertarianism. Perhaps we could start a discussion here on that. Sincerely,  North8000  (talk) 00:08, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Good points. As I mentioned to Benjaminikuta, I observe a negligible amount of attention paid to left vs. right libertarianism in the movement, and a tremendous amount of debate between minarchist and anarchist libertarians. This is readily apparent in social media and blogs published by libertarian activists, commentators, and political candidates. A glance at a Nolan chart shows that libertarianism isn't left or right per se, but there is a range within that quadrant. The emphasis on left and right seems to be something non-libertarians fixate on because they want to fit everything on the one-dimensional spectrum. I believe there is enough published on this dichotomy to argue for categorizing libertarianism along those lines.  Another area of difference is consequentialist libertarianism vs. Natural-rights libertarianism, the former being outcome focused, and the latter being morally based. This has more to do with how libertarians argue for their philosophy than differences on specific issues, but it is a distinction made by people like Milton Friedman.  I will post a suggestion on the libertarianism talk page to discuss broader matters here on the project talk page.--Libertyguy (talk) 17:13, 7 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Another issue is that "left" and "right" aspects of right/left libertarianism have no consistent meaning to the point of there being no real topic to cover there. I think that those two articles should be deprecated / modified where they acknowledge that they are basically articles only about terms, not about some fundamental reality covered by the terms.  North8000  (talk)
 * I think that the Libertarian Socialism article may be another candidate for that. However, this article has an immense amount of contents  and sources about more specific strands of libertarianism.  But when one looks through the references, periodicals etc. there seems to be little mention of Libertarian Socialism specifically.    North8000  (talk) 21:25, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Upon closer look, I think that Libertarian Socialism has enough solid discussion in sourcing that it is a distinct topic more so than right or left libertarian. However, I think that many of the inclusions may be O/R / synthesis. For example, it rightfully mentions anarchism sometimes being associated with libertarian socialism. But of course, anarchism exists substantially outside of Libertarian socialism. But the article (by inclusion of material) is essentially saying that all anarchism is Libertarian Socialism. I think that a good general directoin would be (nothin hasty, would take 1-2 years):

 North8000  (talk) 16:21, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) Reword the left and right libertarian articles to acknowledge that these are merely fluid terms, and to a certain extent get their meanings from the eye of the beholder, with proponents of each seldom self-identifying with thos terms. Briefly describe the strands of libertarianism often identified with those terms, and link to those places.
 * 2) Thin out the Libertarian Socialism article to what sources specifically describe as such. By definition most removed material would be redundant of what is in other articles, but move/use any sources to enhance those other articles.
 * Anarchism is not just "sometimes" associated with libertarian socialism. Most anarchists are anti-capitalist, and the largest currents of libertarian socialism are explicitly anarchist. There's no need to edit current anarchism-related articles to include right-anarchism: Those articles already mention the existence of anarcho-capitalism and objectively explain the controversy surrounding it.JoshuaChen (talk) 03:27, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Good info. But is there such a strong overlap between libertarian socialism and anarchism that it's OK for the article to imply that they are synonyms? North8000 (talk) 13:46, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Friendly reminder to please take care to ensure no information is lost in the course of rearranging things. Benjamin (talk) 03:48, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Per the above, I intend to do a modest and gradual evolution of the "Right Libertarian" and "Left Libertarian" articles to acknowledge that these are more terms (and often even merely "eye of the beholder" terms) than fundamental groupings of libertarian philosophies and movements. We'd also leave the main coverage of the included philosophies and movements to the articles for those philosophies and movements. North8000 (talk) 16:37, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by the term "fundamental groupings."? Benjamin (talk) 18:02, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hard to answer because I'm saying that they do not exist at that broad of a level. But if they did exist, they would a grouping that is pretty broadly acknowledged as a consistent grouping, including in sources.North8000 (talk) 23:08, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

RfC: Should material stating the NRA operates gun safety and training programs be included in the NRA article?
Should material stating the NRA operates gun safety and training programs be included in the NRA article []? Springee (talk) 01:53, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject
The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template Transclude lead excerpt.

The discussion about this can be found here.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

Background
On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive.

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page.

Thank you. &mdash; The Transhumanist  07:45, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Ronald Reagan
I asked 15 days ago why Ronald Reagan is listed as part of WikiProject Libertarianism at the bottom of that talk page, and never got a response. Does anyone know why? PseudoSkull (talk) 22:56, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * My guess is that his priorities were in line with common US libertarianism. Prioritizing the reduction of government. North8000 (talk) 01:30, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Proposal to split Economic_inequality
Hello, I would like to split Economic inequality. According to this link the article is 202 kB and WP:SIZESPLIT suggests an article be split after 40 kB. Also, on the top of the page is a banner that is two years old suggesting the article should be split.

Since I am new, I would like to build a consensus first, rather than WP:BRD. To that end, I put a post on Talk:Economic_inequality and am contacting everyone who has edited the page in the past month and, in addition, I am contacting all the concerned Wikiprojects.

Thanks for your time and please come down to discuss! Seahawk01 (talk) 01:41, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Can you added some Fourth Amendment related pages to WikiProject Libertarianism
Hello, I would like to lobby your group to add the following pages to WikiProject Libertarianism: Terry stop, Consent search and Traffic stop. All of them need to be worked on to highlight the various Fourth Amendment controversies. I would like some help creating the following page: Pretextual stop, which currently redirects to Driving while black. Additionally, you might consider adding two case law pages: Terry v. Ohio and Whren v. United States.

In support of this request, I'll give three references from the Cato Institute:

Thanks!

Seahawk01 (talk) 02:38, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

A new newsletter directory is out!
A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.
 * – Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

RfC of interest
The following RfC may be of interest to members of this group:. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:17, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Right-libertarianism and its place within libertarianism
There is a discussion happening at Talk:Right-libertarianism about whether to rename or delete or merge or otherwise make major changes to that article, which seems to me that it is really about libertarianism more generally and so needs eyes from a wider selection of editors than just those who happen to be watching that article. --Pfhorrest (talk) 17:15, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Sam Sloan
Was wondering if some more editors could take a look at Sam Sloan and Talk:Sam Sloan? The article has recently been worked on quite heavily by an editor in what seems to be a good-faith attempt to clean things up, but there's still lots of unsourced or poorly sourced content that might need more eyes looking at it and assessing it. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:57, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the post.North8000 (talk) 13:15, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello

 * ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Piinkkii (talk • contribs) 19:57, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Good Article Editathon event in October 2022
 Hello WikiProject Politics:

WikiProject Women in Green is holding a  month-long Good Article Editathon event in October 2022!

Running from October 1 to 31, 2022, WikiProject Women in Green (WiG) is hosting a Good Article (GA) editathon event – Wildcard Edition! Participants are invited to work on nominating and/or reviewing GA submissions related to any and all women and women's works during the event period. Want to improve an article about a Bollywood actress? Go for it. A pioneering female scientist? Absolutely. An award-winning autobiography by a woman? Yes! GA resources and one-on-one support will be provided by experienced GA editors, and participants will have the opportunity to receive a special WiG barnstar for their efforts.

We hope to see you there! Goldsztajn (talk) 01:35, 24 September 2022 (UTC)