Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Prussia/Archive 1

Restarting the Project
After the great work that Bwood did on this project in 2004, I'm working on resuming things here as part of the initiative to restart the Former Countries Wikiproject.

Instead of concentrating on just the Kingdom of Prussia, I would like to expand it to cover the whole history of Prussia up until its end after WW2. At the moment, I am working on the provinces of the Kingdom of Prussia (1815-1918) as well as those of the Free State of Prussia (1919-1945).

There are multiple sub-projects from here - Provinces, Regierungsbezirke, Kreise and Standesämter - and they are all currently earmarked for deletion. While going to this level of detail is a very good idea, it is a little too much for just one person - this isn't the only thing I'm working on at the moment. So for the moment, I think I'll just let these subprojects go and reincorporate them into this project, then remake them when I am ready to continue.

Of course, if anyone else wants to join up (or if you're still out there, Bwood) and start at these deeper levels of detail, be my guest. -- 52 Pickup 09:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Question Regarding Banners
It seems to me that many of the articles relating to this project will also relate to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany project as well, specifically including the geogrpahical articles on cities, etc. Would you be willing to perhaps adapt the WikiProject Geography banner, with "drop-down" banner lines below indicating, for instance, "This page is supported by ((Project))." Talk:Brisbane gives an idea of what the final product looks like. I was thinking it might save a bit of space on the talk page if we took a "joint" banner, as it were. Maybe a similar arrangement could be worked out with WikiProject Biography as well. There, we will probably have several people who fall under the scope of both projects. Also, ultimately, we could add in a future GDR project, or any other subproject, without monopolizing the talk page space. Please inform me whether you would find such a cooperative banner acceptable or not, so that I can approach the relevant projects about perhaps setting such a banner up. Thank you. Badbilltucker 14:13, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * That is a very interesting idea. The Military History project has a similar box (WikiProject Military history/Project banner), but they link only to their own task forces. The only problem that I can see is that the "to do" lists shown in the template would always be that of the Geography project and not of the supporting project(s). There isn't a "to do" page for Prussia at the moment, but it is in the works. If it would be possible to include the "to do" boxes for both the Geography project and its supporter projects, that would be even better.
 * A similar box for the Biography project is also a good idea. A similar modification to WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology would also be a possible - this one also has the option to add requests for images (for example, Talk:Province of Jülich-Cleves-Berg).
 * At present, the Prussia project is also a testing ground for its parent projects: Former countries, Subdivisions of former countries and Former subdivisions of countries (still under development). I don't imagine that we will make any other subprojects for a long time, so any modifications to these banners should also have a place for these parent projects (with the biography banner linking to only the first of these 3 projects). - 52 Pickup 08:49, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Something I forgot: is the Geography project the right one to go for? There is also WikiProject Countries, which is perhaps more suitable. - 52 Pickup 09:47, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * After a bit more thought, I am not sure if this is the right way to go. For your proposed changes to work, it would require a massive rethink of how banners are built. This is because you could not really stop at having the Geography or Countries banner containing the links for Germany and Prussia, but for every other country project. Now that I've thought about it, there is no simple way to put into action what you suggest.
 * At the moment, this is what I think: if a certain page falls under the juristiction of two different projects that are not related by direct decendance (eg. Germany and Biography), then having two different banners is fine by me, because the two groups have a different focus regarding that one article. And again, creating one banner that covers both would be a lot of work if it is to function for every group. For projects that are related by direct descendance (eg. Australia and Brisbane) then your proposed idea is plausable, but it is a little more tricky because the focus of the two groups is the same but the scope is different, and that introduces heirarchy-related problems.
 * For example, if anyone were to start a Queensland project, what would then be the parent banner for Brisbane-related articles? Brisbane or Queensland or Australia or Geography/Countries? This may sound like a silly example, but it illustrates that you have to be careful in over-categorising things in one go.
 * Maybe you should discuss the matter with the people over at WikiProject Templates. True, some pages look too full because of so many banners, so maybe banners need to be redesigned. To something like userboxes perhaps? - 52 Pickup 13:06, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Scotland has a novel way of dealing with all those silly banners. I do not claim to understand it, but it resembles userboxes, all down the right side of the page. 52 Pickup reminded me of it. Maybe something like this could be implemented here, and elsewhere.


 * For just about any banner, if you add the parameter "small=yes", you get these userbox-like banners. - 52 Pickup 10:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I was browsing the B class articles of the former countries project and I have found Friedrich Nietzsche. isn't better to create a separate template so that articles are not falling in the parent project?--Robyvecchio (talk) 02:56, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Project directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 17:08, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Series layout
I think it would be good to plan here how the history articles directly connected with this project should be arranged. Previous discussions that I am aware of are here and here. I like the idea of reducing "Prussia" to a concise summary and disambiguation page (similar to Britannica's), while "History of Prussia" would be the more comprehensive page (similar to what is currently at Prussia).

I'm not sure what would be the best title for a "History of..." template series (similar to Template:History of Germany): "History of Prussia", "History of Brandenburg", "History of Brandenburg-Prussia", etc.

Suggested articles for a "History of..." series focused on the Hohenzollern state
 * March of Brandenburg / Margravate of Brandenburg (-1618; dedicated article instead of simply Brandenburg)
 * Duchy of Prussia (1525-1618; with synopsis of Teutonic Knights)
 * Brandenburg-Prussia (1618-1701; Brandenburg, Prussia, and Rhenish lands)
 * Kingdom of Prussia (1701-1918; with mention of Royal Prussia for info about Partitions of Poland)
 * Free State of Prussia (1701-1934? [Gleichschaltung] or 1947? [abolition])

Olessi 01:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Good start. A "History of..." series for this is tricky since it is branched, but such series have been done before quite well in the past (eg. the very detailed Template:History of the Low Countries). A series title like "History of Brandenburg and Prussia" might be needed. This way, inclusion of modern Brandenburg may be possible at the end.


 * To tell the full story, I think the series should go as far back as possible (similar to the History of Germany series). Expanding on your list of articles to include non-Hohenzollern involvement:
 * Branch 1
 * Slavic Brandenburg (5th-12th century) - the various tribes that inhabited the region, ending with the subjugation of the Wendish dukes of Brandenburg through the Wendish crusades (1147-1157)
 * Margravate of Brandenburg (1157-1618) - content from the German article (de:Mark Brandenburg) would be a good start
 * Elector of Brandenburg (1356-1806) - this article concentrates on Brandenburg's electoral duties within the HRE, but it does have a place here somewhere as a separate article.
 * Brandenburg-Prussia...
 * Branch 2
 * Origins of Prussia - Maybe this article, but it needs cleaning up
 * Old Prussians (until the 13th century)
 * Monastic State of the Teutonic Knights (1224-1525) - this entry then branches further:
 * Duchy of Prussia (1525-1618) - joins with Brandenburg-Prussia
 * Royal Prussia (1466-1772) - joins with Kingdom of Prussia


 * It might look a little complicated, but I think it needs to be that way, in order to avoid confusion and to tell a clear and complete story.


 * Do you think that it might be worth building a draft version of what the new Prussia page could look like? - 52 Pickup 11:09, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I like the layout and ambition of your ideas. Would it be possible to have the Brandenburg branch end with Elector of Brandenburg and have branches 1 and 2 then converge with branch 3, the "Brandenburg-Prussia" state? A fourth section could be for post-1918. I have no background of complicated template-making on the lines of what you suggest, so I do not know if my ideas would be possible or not. Olessi 16:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That's exactly what I had in mind. I have put up a draft template here. There are two versions - one with and one without the Elector of Brandenburg entry. This is a tricky one to include since it runs parallel to a number of entries - and it needs to be kept parallel so that the dates run neatly. The colour scheme is by no means final (largely taken from Template:History of China), so feel free to change it. - 52 Pickup 08:37, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks like a good start. I'm not sure which version is better; without EoB looks better, but it is a relevant article to include. Do you know if there is a tutorial or information page for creating tables like this? Also, I have begun translating de:Mark Brandenburg at User:Olessi/Mark Brandenburg. Feel free to fix any translation errors I have made. Olessi 17:22, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

So far, I haven't been able to help much with the translation, but I did try putting up a suitable infobox. Something that I forgot was that the Margrave of Brandenburg was a title held up until Kaiser Wilhelm II. This could make things a bit more confusing, but I guess that so long as this is clearly discussed in the text, there shouldn't be a problem. I don't know of any tutorials, these are just tables so you just play around with the rowspan or columnspan features to get the look you want. Help:Table has a few things about it, but not much. - 52 Pickup 13:19, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 19:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)