Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Puerto Rico/Archives/2010/August

Beaches of Puerto Rico
We have a list of rivers, swamps, governors, etc... but not of Beaches? SOMEONE PLEASE HELP! Quaz Gaa  18:24, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * You know, I have a few ideas for this list. If someone can make sure that all of them are included in the current "Beaches of Puerto Rico" article, I think that it can be pushed to FL status. In the meantime, I'm moving that article to "List of beaches in Puerto Rico". -   Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  20:26, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Hello, I found this citation for the number of beaches in PR (365),,, but I have my doubts... Just thought to get opinions from everyone who's monitoring here that might be interested. Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 00:25, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that they are just trying to make the narrative more compeling. A DRN article claims that they are only "over 200", which seems accurate based on a list compiled (see list's talk page) which includes all sort of beaches, not only recreational ones. And with only 250 - 300 miles of coast line, there should be 2 or 3 diferent beaches per every 2 miles to reach 365, which doesn't seem probable. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  07:58, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

List of songs about Puerto Rico
I was thinking about putting a list of songs about Puerto Rico and I've got 11 songs on top of my head. Would that be okay? Magiciandude (talk) 17:46, 8 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Sure there are already list like that about other countries and regions, Category:Songs about countries, as long as it is properly cited I say go for it.El Johnson (talk) 17:50, 8 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Well I went ahead and I created the article. Magiciandude (talk) 20:50, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

List of United States federal courthouses in Puerto Rico
This list is largely complete, but has bits and pieces of information missing, and needs images filled in - any help in completing it would be much appreciated. Cheers! bd2412 T 21:25, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

American Latino Museum
My dear friends, I was just told that the government is considering me to be part of the commission of said museum, because according to them (not me mind you!) to be Puerto Rico's foremost military historian. There will be a conference held this August 11th in Puerto Rico and all of you are cordially invited to attend. I may not go because of health problems in the family, but those of you in the island, I highly recommend that you go. Here is the information:. Tony the Marine (talk) 16:54, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Notice
For those of you interested, "Category:Puerto Rican Political Prisoners" has been nominated for deletion. If you wish you may express yourself here: Categories for discussion. Tony the Marine (talk) 23:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Further interest: NPOV tutorial: Categorization, Categorization of people, Category names. QuAz  GaA  18:26, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Part of USA?
There is a dispute at Oldest people as to whether Puerto Rico is part of the United States or if it is a separate country. Can we get a definitive (preferably referenced) answer to the question from this project? Matchups 15:50, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * This is a false binary. Puerto Rico need not be a "separate country" to "not be part of the United States." There are territories that are considered not part of any nation (for example, Antarctica).

Generally speaking, if you are part of a nation you are counted as part of that nation's population in the census. That is the most-clear distinction. Puerto Rico is NOT counted as part of the United States. When someone says "the USA had 305 million people" they are NOT including Puerto Rico's almost-4 million residents. Ryoung 122 17:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Matchups, could you provide a wikilink to the exact page where the dispute is taking place? That should, if anything, help focus a response. I probably will not be the one providing a response, but I suspect any editor here could use that additional bit of information. Thanks, Mercy11 (talk) 23:22, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Good question, but the dispute is not taking place "on" a page. The edit history contains this excerpt:
 * (cur | prev) 03:27, August 25, 2010 SiameseTurtle (talk | contribs) (39,469 bytes) (Undid revision 380831465 by Matchups (talk) Unincorporated territories are not part of the USA) (undo)
 * (cur | prev) 20:38, August 24, 2010 Matchups (talk | contribs) (39,456 bytes) (Puerto Rico is part of the United States. That fact is stated several times on its page.) (undo)
 * (cur | prev) 00:27, August 24, 2010 Ryoung122 (talk | contribs) (39,469 bytes) (Undid revision 380644923 by Kochamanita (talk)no its not, that's why it's not counted in the US population) (undo)
 * (cur | prev) 23:57, August 23, 2010 Kochamanita (talk | contribs) m (39,456 bytes) (Puerto Rico is part of the USA) (undo)
 * Matchups 03:57, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Puerto Rico is not its own country. It is not independent.  So the question becomes, "What country is it a part of?"  It is the United States.  There have been multiple referendums on this issue in Puerto Rico.  Each time the option of independence has been given, the Puerto Ricans themselves have overwhelmingly rejected independence as an option.  On another note, I am still not very familiar with formatting, so if this is off in that regard, forgive my ignorance. Kochamanita (talk) 04:22, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I am not going to address, for now, whether or not Puerto Rico is its own country, because that was not the original question that was made. So I will adddress the question, "Is Puerto Rico part of the United States or if it is a separate country?". And, if I may, I will boil it down to one: "Is Puerto Rico part of the United States or if is it not?"


 * The answer was provided by the U.S. Supreme Court in the leading landmark case of Downes v. Bidwell, 182 U.S. 244 (1901).
 * The case is considered the leading Insular case, and concluded that the U.S. could acquire territory and exercise unrestricted power in determining what rights to concede to its inhabitants. It included the "fateful phrase" that :
 * "While in an international sense Porto Rico (sic) was not a foreign country, since it was subject to the sovereignty of and was owned by the United States, it was foreign to the United States in a domestic sense, because the island has not been incorporated into the United States, but was merely appurtenant thereto as a possession."
 * The case created the constitutionally unprecendented category of "unincorporated territories".


 * Fundamentally then, Puerto Rico is BOTH, a part of the United States, and at the same time it is not a part of the US: it depends what the issue at hand is. A few examples, PR sends its own team to the Olympics (and, yes, it competes against the US Olympic team), but PR cannot determine what countries it has foreign relations with (the U.S. determines that). Puerto Ricans are their own country in the sense that they have their own unique cultural identity (separate from the American culture), but they are not a separate entity in the sense that internationally they are not classified as Puerto Ricans but as Americans for international travel purposes (i.e., Puerto Ricans carry US passports, not their own passports).


 * In short, Puerto Rico is part of the US in the sense that it BELONGS to the US, but it is not a part of the US in the sense that the States of the Union (such as, say, Arizona) are a part of the US. This is because Puerto Rico is not INCORPORATED into the United States.


 * If your goal is to decide whather or not, a section such as |THIS ONE should have the flag of Puerto Rico or that of the US next to, in this case, Emiliano Mercado del Toro, then I believe most Puerto Ricans would like see the flag of PR there. And, in my opinion, most Americans either don't care or would prefer to see the PR flag. As for internationally, I may be wrong on this one, but I believe the rest of the Americas prefer to see the PR flag, whereas Europe would probably prefer the US flag there. The rest of the world I have no clue.


 * If you wish more info, a good starting point is Political status of Puerto Rico. Hope this helped! Mercy11 (talk) 05:17, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


 * COMMENT I have taken a second look at the dispute history page and saw that, in fact, Emiliano Mercado del Toro seems to be the issue.  In this case the practice is to consider him Puerto Rican.  This person was born, lived, and died in Puerto Rico; as such, he would be considered Puerto Rican, way before he's considered American.  Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 05:28, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


 * If I can add a comment: In any Competitive category or sport, Puerto Rico is always represented as a different country. Whether it be at the Olympics, or the upcoming 2010 FIBA World Championship, Puerto Rico's unincorporated status is always represented separately.   QuAz  GaA  18:10, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

WHY SPANISH HARLEM CELEBRATES ST. PATRICK'S DAY..potential DYK.
If not already...

http://nylatinojournal.com/home/history/americas/why_spanish_harlem_celebrates_st._patricks_day.html QuAz  GaA  00:30, 30 August 2010 (UTC)