Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Puerto Rico/Archives/2010/September

Rebuilding WP:PUR V. I
Guys, I think that it is about time that we get this project up and running at its former pace. During the past two years we have lost several active users, others (such as me) have been forced to reduce our time in the project due to "real life" issues. However, if we work together, this project can get up. Since we have lost a few old GAs during the sweeps, I believe that we should begin by producing a steady flow of GA-quality articles on a yearly basis. There comes the first proposal:

If each one of us "adopts" at least three Stub/Start/C-class articles, of any topic, and manages to get them to at least B/GA class, our load of work in the future would be reduced drastically. In fact, if at least three of our members manages to built three GAs per year, we would be producing at least 9, which is a healthy amount in the long run. I have a few alternative proposals, but this one should be the easiest to implement under our current circumstances (we have well over 2,000 assessed articles, but only 47 meet GA/FA standards).

Let me know what you guys think, or publish your own proposals here. Regards, -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  10:14, 12 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me. Is there an easy way to find all the Stub/Start/C-class articles in the PR wikiproject, or we just stumble along until we find them??? I'll take the Ponce massacre (it's at Start level), but I'll need the other two.


 * Also, how do we get them "upgraded" to a higher grade once we have "fixed" them? Maybe there is a link to a page that explains that somewhere... Thanks. Mercy11 (talk) 21:43, 12 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, "B class" can be certified by weighting the article against the criteria. However, IMO, GANs are the best way to gauge the quality of the prose and sourcing, since that process involves an independent reviewer. The easy way to find these articles is by browsing these categories: Stubs, Start class and C class-  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  22:32, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, I know of at least 3 articles that pass that criteria already without any further modification. Do I just go to the article's Discussion page and change the "Start" to a "B-Class"? Is that it? Sorry about the silly question, but I can't find the answer anywhere.

BTW, here is a list of other articles I plan to adopt:
 * Puerto Rican Independence Movement---> C
 * Universidad Catolica de Puerto Rico--> C
 * Instituto de Cultura Puertorriqueña---> Start
 * 26 Sept 2010 UPDATE: Nominated for GA. Pending Review. Mercy11 (talk) 14:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Political status of Puerto Rico> B
 * I wouldn't dare to touch it, but good luck with this article, it can reach FA-quality if worked thoroughly. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  23:54, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Antonio Paoli (sorry Marine!) --> B
 * Sorry? For what? I like "B"'s. They are "B"eautiful (smile). Tony the Marine (talk) 20:31, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought I had snatched this article for adoption when you might had wanted to adopt it at some future point. That. Mercy11 (talk) 03:38, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It's O.K. my friend, adopt it, I created it. All is well. Tony the Marine (talk) 05:11, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
 * 26 Sept 2010 UPDATE: Listed as GA on 6 Sept 2010. Mercy11 (talk) 14:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Education in Puerto Rico> C
 * Museo de Arte de Ponce---> C
 * Caja de Muertos Light> B *
 * Nice, but I'm not sure if "Architectural design" would sound a bit more formal. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  23:54, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ponce High School-> B *
 * Only one thing. Perhaps the "National Register of Historic Places" section should be merged into the "Significance" section, it is only one sentence and it seems to prove its significance further. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  23:54, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, thanks, I had missed that. Mercy11 (talk) 04:22, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Destileria Serralles> C
 * Plaza Las Delicias> C
 * Ponce Cathedral> Start
 * 27 Sept 2010 UPDATE: Nominated for GA. Pending Review. Mercy11 (talk) 03:25, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Cruceta El Vigia---> C
 * Cerro de Punta-> Start
 * Juan Serralles-> C
 * PR-10--> C
 * 26 Sept 2010 UPDATE: Nominated to GA on 24 Sept 2010. Failed. Mercy11 (talk) 14:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 23:59, 13 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's pretty much it as long as it meet the criteria. I have over a dozen books waiting to be trascripted here, my first target will be Cangrejeros de Santurce (baseball). -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  04:31, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi, I upgraded about 20 articles to class B. I also upgraded all the articles in the 16-article list above. (There was an overlap of 2 (marked *) between the lists). If you get a chance, check out my "contribs" to peruse the 20 or so articles I upgraded to B, and give me your take on what I did: I need to make sure I interpreted the criteria correctly. Thx, Mercy11 (talk) 02:41, 15 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I need some sleep before doing that, but Antonio Paoli is quite good IMO. However, we need to watch out for bullet-lists in these biographies, reviewers always demand that they be turned into prose. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  06:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, I will work on reducing the sections with bullets. Some might have to stay, imo, as in Discography. What do you think? Mercy11 (talk) 04:22, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I started with the ICP article and the other two, given they are at the lowest spot in the echelon ("Start"). I have upgraded ICP from Start to B.  Big jump but, IMO, it's deserved. If there are any observations, I'll consider them. BTW, the other 20-some articles I referred to above (in my July 15th edit), are all part of this group National Register of Historic Places listings in southern Puerto Rico.  That provides an easy direct link to the list I was re-assessing if anybody wants to check them out.  Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 19:14, 18 July 2010 (UTC)


 * ICP looks solid, maybe "Functions" should be a sub-section of "Mission" since they are related. My first article, Ángel Daniel Vassallo, is waiting DYK confirmation. Suggestions for improvement can be posted here or at the article's talk page.-  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  23:54, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes I agree, and it's now under Mission. I will see that the refenreces are listed with more info, and then give it a final look before promoting it to something higher in the echelon. Mercy11 (talk) 04:22, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Vassallo was ignored at DYK. Ah well, the Cangrejeros will soon follow. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  20:33, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Surprisingly, Vassallo actually made it to the main page despite having no support votes. Cangrejeros is almost done, I will try to get that one to DYK as well. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  01:47, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * BTW, I’m also re-taking previous GACs Phi Sigma Alpha and Puerto Rico national basketball team. Those two will be GAs before December, you can bet on that. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  02:06, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

(←) Cangrejeros de Santurce is (finally) completed. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  01:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

"Spanish name" thing
This is a Spanish name; the first family name is Surname1 and the second is Surname2.
 * Moved from Tony's Talk page by request.

Hey Tony, FYI...  I have been adding the above tag to Bio articles that I find with two surnames. I think, and since this is the English Wikipedia, when a new editor first sees the article Francisco Rojas Tollinchi‎, that it is their first impression to think that Rojas is a middle name. This is the custom for those countries which use the Queen's English (UK, US, Australia...etc.). My intention was not to denote any spanish origin to the surnames themselves, just to identify them AS surnames. Beleive me, I had trouble explaining this when I came to the Mainland with all my ID's from PR! QuAz GaA  13:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I find this tag useful. But how about if, in addition, for every new "Spanish name" article created the article title was given in the form FIRST_NAME FATHERS_LAST-MOTHERS_LAST. That is, with a dash between the 2 last names. So that Juan Rosa Garcia Martinez, for example, would be written as Juan Rosa Garcia-Martinez. Or, as an alternative, how about if every new article title had No Dash at all between the 2 last names and just had "Quazgaa's tag"? So, the above name could be written Juan R. Garcia-Martinez, (and then in the article body it could read "Juan R(osa) Garcia-Martinez was born in blah blah blah..." Either way, we get consistency.
 * For complete consistency (after either of the 2 proposed methods above was implemented) we could rename (aka, "Move") those that are non-compliant as we bump into them in the future. BTW, no pun intended, but maybe this discussion should be moved to WP:PUR. Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 14:07, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps the tag should read "This is a name in Spanish; the paternal family name is Surname1 and the maternal family name is Surname2.", meaning that we are not referring to the nationality but to the language, and clarifying the paternal/maternal origin of each surname. Or maybe I'm just nitpicking!  Anyway, I like the idea of tagging the names, so as to clarify the confusion it may create to Anglos. Pr4ever (talk) 14:21, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, I have been bold and updated the template to read as follows: or   Thoughts?  QuAz  GaA  15:50, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


 * It is O.K., I just didn't see a point in the "thing" and found it to be a little annoying at the begining of the article, something like an eyesore. I think that it can be worked into another section within the article, such as "See also", but I won't protest it being placed once more. Something similar was done with the Teófilo Marxuach article when someone placed "Other members of the Marxuach family" on top of the introduction. What we did later was to place the "Other members of the Marxuach family" in the "See also" section. Tony the Marine (talk) 20:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I like the first alternative: his name uses Spanish naming customs; the first or paternal family name is Fulano and the second or maternal family name is de Tal.

...and I agree with Tony that it could be placed in a less-conspicuous/disruptive place, such as "See also". Pr4ever (talk) 01:03, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Puerto-Rican vs. Puerto Rican-American vs. American
Interesting discussion here.  QuAz  GaA  01:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)


 * A Vote on this matter is taking place here. QuAz  GaA  20:57, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Deletion review for Category Puerto Rican Political Prisoners
Please note I have opened a Deletion Review for the above category at THIS location. Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 02:19, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Flood of new stubs
Hi, I found Venezuela (Pueblo) while stub-sorting, and there seem to be a whole lot of similar sub-stubs created by the same IP editor which don't mention their location in the text but appear, from the infobox, to be in Puerto Rico. Someone who knows the area might like to check them out and improve them? The article title should presumably be "Venezuela, Puerto Rico", or perhaps "Venezuela, San Juan", the location "Pueblo" is not listed in Pueblo (disambiguation), etc. PamD (talk) 07:20, 18 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The user(s) in question in this section titled "REQUEST" just below from here, may be the same one. Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 02:07, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Puerto Rico articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release
Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Puerto Rico articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (&diams;) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 23:30, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Request
I've just uncovered a rather large pile of weirdness with regards to the categorization of numerous settlements in Puerto Rico. I'm not familiar enough with Puerto Rico to properly determine whether the new categorization scheme in question is logical or useful or appropriate — but what is important to note is that each of the new categories has been either entirely uncategorized or categorized solely as a subcategory of itself, that some of them seem to be duplicates of each other, and that several of them seem not to follow proper naming conventions for categories of this type.

As well, it all seems kind of overdone and overgranular even compared to the San Juan-related categorization in place on es:, where I'd kind of expect content related to Puerto Rico to be much more thoroughly developed and organized.

Could somebody involved in this project please take a look at the following categories, determine whether they're needed or not, and then rename and/or reorganize them as necessary? Thanks.



There were also three categories which were entirely empty except for that recursive "categorized as subcategories of themselves" thing; I've deleted those three as empty categories, but they should be mentioned nonetheless:



I'll also advise if I come across any more of these. Bearcat (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with the assessment of "overdone and overgranular". Add to that wp:overcategorization. I say kill them all via speedy Cat deletion. Check out the section on this page (just above) titled "Flood of new stubs" from just 2 days ago,,, wouldn't doubt the user is teh same vandal in both cases. Plase note also a message someone unknown to me left in my Talk Page today HERE.  Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 02:05, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Part of my concern was in ensuring that if these categories do get killed, we still need to make sure that the articles are recategorized into more appropriate replacements — and I'm not sure I necessarily know what all the suitable categories are, which is why I was hoping someone more familiar with Puerto Rico than I am could help out. Bearcat (talk) 03:00, 21 September 2010 (UTC)


 * There is more than one user working on these stubs. I wonder if its a school project. Its seems weird that some infoboxes mention the Secretary of Education (ex. Camarones (Guaynabo)).--Jmundo (talk) 02:57, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Partial list of the accounts editing these stubs: Indian Republic, 201077FOURTH, User:United_Jetset_Frequency, Jonas Bronx, Fort Brooke. I think this goes beyond a classroom project.--Jmundo (talk) 05:58, 21 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I have been involved in trying to clean up the Santurce district stubs -- removing odd references to a "Year Zero" census, some fairly meaningless gibberish about the "Music Industry of Puerto Rico" that insists on referencing a "Digital Newspaper" (by all accounts I can find, little more than a recently created blog site), and other general cleanup. Apparently,  takes issue with my involvement in these article, and has taken upon himself to make false accusations.  I'll deal with that separately, but I definitely think there is collusion afoot among several accounts to muddy the waters of the Puerto Rico project.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:12, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if this is part of the same problem or a different one — but could somebody also take a look at Borinquen (Puerto Rico) and clarify what on earth the sentence "Borinquen is the rottenstone Tripolis of Puerto Rico in terms of geolocation and population combined together in form" means? Bearcat (talk) 01:00, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have seen and cleaned up similar gibberish from various Puerto Rico location stub articles. I'm not sure if it's a case of really poor machine translation or if someone is just typing this gibberish as vandalism.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 11:29, 24 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Update: The categories in question were created by one of the most egregious socks I've ever seen. Given the level of vandalism committed by some of the sock in that list, I would imagine that these categories have little use to anyone but the sockmaster himself.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 14:23, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Name Change for ...And God Created Them
Spanish language movie was actually called: Díos los Cría, which translates to God Nurtures them or They are Raised by God. Not current title. Admin PLZ! QuAz GaA  20:05, 24 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Further research shows that this may be an error steming from the sources here and here, so a disambiguation page will need to be created for the current page. QuAz  GaA  20:13, 24 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I will notify the creator of the article and give him or her the option of changing the name change. Tony the Marine (talk) 20:18, 24 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads up on this one. It might not be just a simple translation issue, but the actual title that the film was released under in the English speaking world. As two sources state the current title, unless other sources are found to counter them, changing the title would be original research. Another solution would be to state in the article what the exact translation of the Spanish title is. I'll add a note to the film project's talkpage to see if anyone else knows more about this film. Thanks again!  Lugnuts  (talk) 09:54, 25 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Link to discussion is here.  Lugnuts  (talk) 09:57, 25 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Lugnuts, the citation link in the article is incorrect; the correct page is at which uses the Spanish title Dios los Cria. PC78 (talk) 11:42, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Per WP:NCF use the English title even if it is a different translation from the native title. However if the film was released under its native title then that should be used with a English translation in brackets after its first use.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 12:35, 25 September 2010 (UTC)


 * This is a Spanish Language Film released in the Spanish Language name: Díos los Cría. When it was released with the English title, it Obviously was mis-translated.  This Mis-translation should be noted in the article, but not continued here on WP. A |en|D%C3%ADos%20los%20Cr%C3%ADa Google Translation shows: Birds of a feather.  This is obviously wrong per my Spanish 101 Original Research, So I don't recommend using it as a source.  Also, the current English translation IMO takes away the true meaning intended by the Director of the Film when viewed by English audiences.  Díos los Cría (They are Raised by God) with a Disambiguation from ...And God Created Them IMO is the Common Sense solution here.  QuAz  GaA  15:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)


 * An English title need not be a literal translation of the original Spanish. The issue here is whether or not the article should use the English title (as it currently does) or whether it should use the original Spanish title, Dios los Cria (or Díos los Cría). A literal translation should not be used in the page title in the manner you suggest. PC78 (talk) 16:53, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Notice to all
The WikiProject Puerto Rico talk page is not a forum for personal disputes. The project page is to be respected and all disputes should be taken before the Arbitration Committee, see here: Dispute resolution requests, where uninvolved parties could take action. Tony the Marine (talk) 20:15, 27 September 2010 (UTC)