Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Puerto Rico/Standards/Symbols

Progress begets progress. Do not overwrite another file on Commons with your version per Overwriting existing files

There are currently three places to have discussion
Where do you all prefer:


 * 1) The image discussion page - 3 votes
 * 2) this talk page
 * 3) the municipio articles talk page - 1 vote
 * 4) continue playing it by ear - wherever the fingers take you


 * Comment: I also prefer the image discussion page. Yarfpr (talk) 15:49, 5 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment: If by Image Discussion page we mean the image's page at Commons, I would agree that's the right page for that, as it is, imo, the most likely place future editors will look for that sort of discussion, so I've added my vote above.
 * I would also like to add these (at the risk of being redundant about something everyone might have already thought about)


 * 1) The Commons image Discussion page can be used to discuss whether an image is good or can be improved to make it more similar to the actual COA/flag image in real life. For example, editor X makes an image of a flag and uploads it to Commons. (see below for a step missing here) Then other editors can make comments about the image (the background is the wrong color, the mountains seem to smooth, the lion shouldn't be heraldic, etc) and the image builder can make comments back, all in the same Commons page.
 * 2) The Municipio Talk pages can be used to, for example, justify why an image was taken down. Say, for example, that editor Y replaces an existing PNG image with another one of his making, or replaces an existing PNG image with a bad SVG image of his making. Then, rather than just revert the editor or undo the editor's addition with a short Edit Summary message, we can use the Municipio's Talk page (or whatever article the image changed happened to be in) to start discussion as to why the image was taken down. This seems more considerate since the editor may have been acting in good faith when he performed the replacement.
 * 3) This Project/ Standards/Symbols Talk page should be used, imo, only for keeping a tally of how the project is progressing, meaning, for example, things like taking votes of whether or not an editor's COA/flag image uploaded to Commons is acceptable and ready for prime time. I say this because if we were to discuss images in this pages, this page could very quickly become unwieldy (think the Ponce 1692 flag's discussion x 78 x 2).
 * Now, in reference to the "see below for a step missing here" from #1 above, the editor who uploads an image to Commons would need to let the rest of the editors know that he has uploaded the image so other editors can review it for purposes of giving it their final blessing (clearance) for replacing an existing image. The editor would need to do this after he uploads the image to Commons and, before other editos can start making comments on the image. In fact, the uploader can himslef start the discussion in the Commons image Discussion page for the newly uploaded image. Using the "Ping" template (or any of the various similar templates) in the Commons image Discussion page, the editor can alert the other editors that the image has been uploaded to Commons. (Remember, btw, that Commons states the original uploader should be contacted first to make changes to his image. If the editor doesn't respond or cannot make the changes, then can a new editor contemplate replacing such image.)
 * That said, someone will need to move the huge "Ponce flag (version 1692)" discussion from this page herein to HERE. I would suggest that, to avoid confusing future editor/readers, when making such moves, the mover use the Summary Edit line at both the En-WP sending end and the Commons receiving end to describe what is being moved to where and what was moved from where. Alternatively, I suggest (1) leaving a comment at the location at En-WP where the discussion was moved from (this Standards/Synmbols Talk page) stating something to the effect that <>, and (2) placing a header comment at Commons location where the text is being moved to stating something like <>. Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 03:14, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * - Not redundant, but comprehensive and this is also in line with wiki policies / procedures / guidelines, etc. I do appreciate you taking the time to write this out. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 13:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with all your suggestions. Thank you for explaining everything in an easy to understand and organized way for everyone. Personally, I don't like to use the municipality's talk page to explain the details that should be improved to a symbol because it deviates from the general purpose of the article. That is, like you, I consider that the municipality's talk page should be used to indicate in a generalized way why a file has been replaced (without going into details, because for this there's the discussion page of the image in question). What is not clear to me is if the famous statements can continue to be added to this talk page of the project or if we should raise our observations directly on the discussion page of the image that needs to be revised (I think this is the most appropriate considering that the original uploader would have a better chance of correcting his/her mistakes). Yarfpr (talk) 14:53, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments. I moved the Ponce flag comments to their appropriate Commons images locations. Eloquent, Cookieman and you should have all received notifications. I didn't want to move too much, so I left the first paragrapgh (was also duplicated at the new moved-to place) here for reference that something had actually been under discussion. If there are comments, please let me know and we can "claen up" anything not finished up.  Hope this is what (most of ) the group wanted. Mercy11 (talk) 17:28, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Aguada flag

 * 1) Yarfpr statement - In general, the flag is very good, but the only detail that I observe is that the pigeon has a series of details that don't exist in the official version. See Ex. A and Ex. B.
 * 2) Eloquent statement - It looks good. I've removed the raster image and the error from the file in use.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 18:07, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Añasco flag

 * 1) Eloquent statement -.svg is inferior because cross points should not end in arrows
 * 2) Cookie statement-  Flag is incorrect, arrows are misshaped --19:53, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Caguas coat of arms

 * 1) Eloquent statement - Caguas seal.gif looks good lion passant guardant. Coat of arms of Caguas.svg does not. I added comment to File: Coat of arms of Caguas.svg discussion page on Commons and provided link to Caguas official site - a perfect source

Caguas flag

 * 1) Eloquent statement - The File:Flag of Caguas.svg  has too much detail compared to flag on Caguas official site found on  Ex. C The towers atop should not be 3-D. See exhibits:Ex. A, and Ex. B - this one looks completely different than what we have on commons
 * 2) Yarfpr statement - When I compare the .svg with the images provided by the official website of the municipality, the arrows of the .svg are overloaded with details that the official flag doesn't have. Even in PR the crowns aren't usually three-dimensional despite the fact that a few shields round the crown at the bottom (Aguadilla, for example). See Ex. C

Camuy coat of arms

 * 1) Yarfpr statement - The Taino sun should be black inside the external rings/rays. See the official FB page of the municipality.
 * 2) Eloquent statement - Okay. So, I won't sulk. I see the black inside the rings/ rays. I was wrong (I guess).


 * Comment: The only thing left is to fix the shield. Look at this beautiful mural that Telenoticias reviewed these days. At 0:06 and 2:33 you'll see what I commented in my statement. Yarfpr (talk) 01:34, 2 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment: That's a great labor of love to the heroes who serve during the COVID pandemic. Sad that 3 people from 1 family died due to the virus. Camuy is my grandma's favorite town although she's from Lares. I see the black fill in the rings. :) I can admit when I'm wrong.  jaja --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 01:55, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * LOL! Camuy is a beautiful, pleasant town, and yes, I loved that detail to honor and immortalize our heroes during this emergency. Yarfpr (talk) 02:53, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Camuy flag

 * 1) Yarfpr statement - The white undulations should be like the silver ones on the coat of arms. See LexJuris. The taino sun also have black details inside the rings/rays. See BoricuaOnline.
 * 2) Eloquent statement - Okay. I CamuyFlag.svg reverted to a prior version with the black inside the rings/ rays

Carolina flag
(copied comments from main project page) " 9/24 Made flag, i tried my best and listed my source. Over all i think the sword and the crown are correct but the ermine is very inconsistent but when we fine what is correct for that its an easy fix luckily. Hopefully the coat of arms will be easier. Tell me what you think. --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 18:22, 24 September 2020 (UTC) I think it looks good but it's too small. I have to zoom in on the .svg then zoom out on the .jpg (zoom in, zoom out). Can you make your .svgs a bit larger? More consistent with other people's .svg sizes because some people still use PCs.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 21:35, 24 September 2020 (UTC) "


 * 1) Eloquent statement - 1) should increase default display size 2) should base it on template found on Carolina's page. See my comments on the Carolina Flag of Carolina, Puerto Rico.svg by Cookieman talk page on Commons  There are problems with the bottom of the crown. Did you see my comments I posted a few days ago over there? Are you watching your file talk pages? --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 11:45, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Comerío flag

 * 1) Yarfpr statement - Flag of Comerio.svg has issue: the cross should look similar to the one shown on the coat of arms instead of the design shown on Adjuntas and Ceiba flags
 * 2) Eloquent statement - 9/24  Yarfpr is correct. The description on lexjuris states the cross on the flag is  "...una cruz ancorada de oro..."  Yarfpr did update the file based on his observations and I updated the .svg discussion page to explain why it was incorrect.  IMHO, the update is minor enough to allow for an overwrite.

Guaynabo coat of arms
I have returned! Sorry about my disappearance, i was busy trying to figure out how to fix SVG errors and I have tested it on my Guaynabo coa which had 93 errors which i believe were the most out of the things i have made for Puerto Rico. I think the issue that is causing the errors is i don't really group my SVGs when i finish with them :| but now its good and has zero errors and one warning! --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 12:46, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * According to User:Sarang on WikiCommons, who has a lot of experience with .svg files, the tool you are using "Method Draw" only makes invalid .svg files. You can see the comment he made on his page. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 18:01, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It does not make only invalid svgs, what are you talking about? I ran it through a SVG sanitizer. --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 18:19, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I didn't say it. If you reread my comment, it says that User:Sarang said it. But we know that Method Draw was creating a lot of invalid code, which I guess you have since learned how to clean up with a "sanitizer".


 * Also you should read this (on Commons) where it says that Coats of arms should be your own work based on the definition (blazon - describing the coat of arms).--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 21:10, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi CM. I added comments to the Guaynabo .svg deletion nomination. Who knows when someone on Commons can get to it. They're so busy. TEP (talk) 06:51, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Isabela coat of arms
[Note: A group of comments followed here, but were moved HERE, as that location was deemed the more appropriate place for discussing this (these) image(s). The text above was preserved and left "behind" as reference, intended to "tie" the 2 discussions.] --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 18:07, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Juncos coat of arms
I just made a SVG version of the arms of Juncos based off its blazon. Let me know what you think about it :)



--Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 23:50, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it's good. Just the windows and doors should be gules. Then you should add it to the wiki articles and wikidata item. Escudo cuartelado: (1) y (4): En campo de oro, cuatro palos de gules, y, (2) y (3), en campo de plata, un bambú, al natural. Al timbre, corona mural de oro de tres torres, mamposteada de sable y adjurada de gules.  Los palos de gules en campo de oro son las armas del antiguo reino de Valencia, en alusien al Hato del Valenciano, antiguo nombre de la región en que se asienta Juncos. La linea ondulada horizontal, que separa los cuarteles superiores de los inferiores, constituye una referencia al rio Valenciano o Río de Juncos. Los bambúes son árboles carácterísticos de la campiña junqueña que abundan particularmente en las márgenes del Valenciano. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 01:51, 12 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Done, also i don't know how to add sections on wikidata. Could you help with that? --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 02:49, 12 February 2021 (UTC)


 * ...windows and doors should be gules, I think per blazon.. but not per what is seen out there. Even here in a mural in the town.. ...--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 03:08, 12 February 2021 (UTC)


 * oh hell, i thought you said azure. I'm just really tired. I'll fix it tomorrow, sorry about that.
 * Fixed, now how do i add it to wikidata? --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 12:49, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I really like your COA! Yarfpr (talk) 13:12, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Gracias a uds todos :) --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 13:25, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Your welcome. Re: your question on how to add it to wikidata - the same way you did many times before. :) --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 06:59, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * No no, I know how to replace files but not how to create new section for the arms is what I'm saying --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 13:58, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * You go to the wikidata item, then down to where it says + Add Statement, then search "Coat of arms image" then type in the Filename without the word "File" .  --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 14:22, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Manatí coat of arms

 * 1) Eloquent statement - Manatí seal.JPG is non-free and needs to be marked w/ correct license and moved to Commons, File:Blason ville pr Manatí.svg is available svg file looks good but is missing (5) towers atop and should look like what's on municipality's FB page
 * Done and made --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 17:48, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

but the towers are not correct. You say towers don't have nationalities. I know towers don't have nationalities, just like churches don't have nationalities right, but there are categories for SVG coat of arms elements - crowns of France

and also by Heralder:

Cookieman1.1.1 did you know that Puerto Rico has Spanish, from Spain, heritage? While French people did settle in P.R., the coats of arms should have Spanish style mural crowns, not French.

So with this revert you told me "Please learn more about heraldry, that isn't a French mural crown; nor can mural crowns can have nationalities, that is just silly. Blason states just a Mural crown with five towers, that's a mural crown with five towers. I encourage more research or possibly talking to Heralds about Heraldry, there is plenty of free online books on the subject.)

So does that mean we can put any mural crown on any coat of arms?

If you're going to make arms for P.R. you should try to understand better as well that P.R. has Spanish heritage not French.

Secondly, I'm not interested in getting a Ph.D. on heraldry. Or maybe you're trying to "destroy me with facts and logic" as one of your userboxes says. LOL - please don't. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 02:11, 16 May 2021 (UTC)


 * To answer your question, as long as it does not explicitly say in the blazon that it has to be a certain crown then it theoretical can be any mural crown. For example, I know that a few arms in Puerto Rico feature Taíno crowns in the blazon; that is an example of being explicit but if it just said "a crown" then it could literally be any crown, excreta, and you understand the point. Even so the crowns aren't actually the same with the comparisons you are making with my rendition. If anything you should be judging the blazon rather then If I understand Spanish heritage or not, that just seems a little rude and that kinda rubbed off as ignorance; I have some family in Ceuta ya know :D! But please keep it civil and not come to conclusions, that just starts issues or being. But with all due respects, this seems like a contradiction as it is exactly the same mural crown on the Veja Baja coat of arms which you supported. Look, I'm not here to be hostile or go against you or anyone here; I'm just here to do one thing: Heraldry. I don't even expect these arms to be used really, fact really is I make these in my spare time when I am bored for fun. Gotta do something I suppose! Some people use food to cope, others love but I use heraldry smh. Have a nice night --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk)


 * What it seems to me is that you just want attention and you've chosen the Puerto Rico project and I keep giving you attention. I don't mind giving you attention. I'm retired and have all the time in the world.


 * "With all due respect" is ironic here after our discussion on the Trujillo Alto coat of arms.
 * 1) File:Coat of arms of Trujillo Alto, Puerto Rico.svg    Trujillo Alto you created
 * 2) :File:File:Shield of Ponce, Puerto Rico.svg   Ponce shield you created
 * 3) putting French mural crowns on Puerto Rico coats of arms which should have Spanish mural crowns


 * What are you going to do next?


 * Those are examples of not showing what you say "with all due respect". You don't owe me respect.  You owe wikipedia and our readers respect.


 * With this you show that you don't respect anything or anyone on this project, from what I can tell. I hope that doesn't rub you the wrong way. You basically do what you want then when someone calls you on it, you cry wolf. oh look she's picking on me, help I'm so innocent. I'm just following the blazon. wah wah wah. i.le. Trujillo Alto. Even though I have all the time in the world, and you are here to have fun, I suggest you try to get your attention from someone else. Have a good morning. That's what it looks like to me. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 16:01, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I know I said the Vega Baja coat of arms is fine and it also has the French mural crowns. I believe it should have the Spanish mural crown but I know you won't change it, just like you will make everything however you want it. Don't be high-maintenance --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 16:38, 16 May 2021 (UTC)


 * What do you want from me? Would you just like me to leave? be topic banned?  Please let me know what exactly it is you want from me. That would be the honest thing to do.  Are you trying to teach me something? --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 01:24, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Good news. I will go on a wikibreak so now you can do anything you want and I won't argue with you. Have fun as you say.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 03:11, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "The writer hopes that this fit of pique will attract a flood of "please don't go" messages, along with plenty of support for their side of the dispute that triggered their round of unreasonable demands. The end result sought is that the "high-maintenance" editing behavior gets the editor exactly what they crave – validation and support – leading to a triumphant return to the project or article, at least until the next petty conflict.", wikibreak? all the time in the world? How ironic. Enjoy. --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 14:06, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Orocovis flag

 * 1) Eloquent statement - Here is a flag that is flown at a lookout in Orocovis. An .svg like this owuld be good.  here  There are two current .svgs, neither look correct.


 * Its fixed --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 15:54, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * The Orocovis flag by Cookieman1.1.1 looks correct now that the sun's rays have been made the same lengths per lexjuris. Thank you . This file is being used across the wikimedia projects. I'll remove the comments from the project status page and leave just a checkmark.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 19:34, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * The .svg code on the flag is kicking out as invalid. Perhaps a small fix to that can be made.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 20:24, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Ponce coat of arms
Is it possible we could use a higher quality rendition for the Ponce arms or fix up the current version? I think it is fine right now but it looks to me like some png to svg conversions etc. If not, where did you get the Lion out of curiosity? I'm just interested in upping the quality of the coat of arms. Best wishes --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 17:52, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * - I just saw this question of yours. I'm not sure why I didn't get the ping. Of course. That would be a very good thing for you to work on. The Ponce coat of arms is out of copyright because of its age. My rendition is not great quality but your rendition of May 10 shows a cowardly lion and that's no bueno. Mine actually comes from a photograph I have, which I scanned and did the trace option of the Adobe Illustrator program so it kind of sucks because it's a traced image.. If you want to make a version, feel free but you really shouldn't make a cowardly lion and name it the Ponce shield, you know. That's no bueno. I gotta go get my robo mop, he's escaped and that's no bueno, either! --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 01:10, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Now the fact that I said "so it kind of sucks" doesn't mean you can use those words to mean that you can make a lion standing on his head or dancing in a twirl. It means that as far as an .svg file goes, the code sucks because it's traced. However, the coat of arms I have made for Ponce meets what we want it to look like. Have the nicest morning ever! --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 16:50, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Created good quality svg (flag and coa); image is based on what has been represented on Ponce WP articles for at least 18 years with [:File:Ponce2.gif:]. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 13:24, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Awesome job. thanks!! Mercy11 (talk) 01:40, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Trujillo Alto coat of arms

 * 1) Eloquent statement - I had asked original author to fix this file - need to review this vs. description and other templates / sources.
 * due to both users not responding i made my own version. I left it on the talk page. Let me know how it looks. --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 21:32, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi. Actually, Carlos had responded. and made changes I think we need to start from scratch MAYBE. Note: I put your .svg through the validator and it kicks out with errors.  I need to find an official doc somewhere for a good template for Trujillo Alto. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 01:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe this can help. See the talk page. Yarfpr (talk) 01:32, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I just edited it so tell me about it now. I'd prefer that we don't make a new one from scratch. --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 01:40, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't see any reason to start from scratch. So far everything is looking pretty good. Yarfpr (talk) 03:19, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Continue this discussion on the Trujillo Alto talk page for this. Also,  If you don't mind, do limit your comments on  the standards symbols project page, to "see talk page"... don't sign and date stamp it... as that fills up the columns on the page, unnecessarily. If you don't mind. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 11:14, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

I redid the Trujillo Alto arms and followed it blazon instead of the original which follow its design from a pdf file. Let me know what you think.



--Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 16:28, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Why aren't the bricks (towers too) in different shades of yellow? Mercy11 (talk) 04:17, 13 February 2021 (UTC)


 * That's a common concern so ill clear that up. It as multiple shades because that is its style (style being her alder/sodacan wp style). Look at the arms at Spanish Heraldry and you can see it's a normal reoccurring thing with all crowns. The multiple shades also does not break the or how against any blazon. Thanks for asking :) --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 13:57, 13 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment: The COA looks nice, but I don't like those details in the mountains. My recommendation is the shape of the mountains, the fountains and (maybe) the ribbon should be modified so they don't look like the original COA. That way, some interpretation of copyvio could be avoided. Yarfpr (talk) 15:17, 13 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Why should we use Heralder / Sodacan elements? They are just editors like anyone else. I think the tower should be gold per blazon not "varying shades of gold" Maybe you can use the mountains that are on the Trujillo Flag you made, since they seem good. You know? Copy the mountains from the Trujillo svg flag to this coat of arms of yours.  As I mentioned on Adminstrators noticeboard problems with users, I find the "detail on the mountains" very awful. It looks a lot like a slow-flowing river, or snow, or volcanic eruption. I'm thinking it's not what the COA designer's had in mind for Trujillo Alto. And since you did it as a response to my yelling at you which I should not have, I consider it vandalism. So there are several issues. You can decide to handle them as best you see fit, in your mind. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 19:42, 13 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I hope you know what a blazon is. I'd like you to find me one blazon that specifies it uses multiple shades. The blazon specifies what's on the shield, how it's positioned, and what color it is. With this information, we can make an "emblazonment" which is an interpretation of the information received from the blazon. The blazon says that the mural crown is gold. With this information we, can draw the mural crown, and it must be gold, any shade of gold can be used, and multiple shades can be used. This is what an emblazonment is. A colleague of mine has a great example about emblazonments. Here you can see many versions of the same arms based on the same blazon. It is the same logic for this arms and any arms.




 * I hope this wont frost your apples or rub off wrong, but I believe you lack many basic understandings of heraldry and it's working, especially when you consider this "vandalism". --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 02:18, 14 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Cookieman1.1.1 thought there was no consensus after members of the PR project team expressed questions and concerns over his version:

Please vote:

--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 15:30, 22 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Vote and comment: Based on all the arguments presented and previously discussed, my vote is for Version A because it conforms to the blazon and avoids any possible copyvio. Version B shouldn't be placed in the Trujillo Alto article until this consensus is complete. Communication is very important to guarantee healthy coexistence on WP. Yarfpr (talk) 15:53, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Vote - Version A conforms to the blazon in Spanish. I don't like Cookieman1.1.1 Version B. The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 16:28, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Vote and comment: My vote goes to Version A because the mountainms in the other version look like breasts with nipples and that would be confusing because the breast with nipples mountains in Puerto Rico are not in Trujillo Alto, they are in Salinas, here. Thank you. Mercy11 (talk) 21:20, 22 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Vote: Version A because it follows blazon, is better quality and is good representation of said arms. Other version is sloppy and rushed and was made out of spite as agreed by admins on the administrative board here which was agree that the image was disruptive editing on the users part and WP:NOTHERE. --Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 00:26, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Yauco flag

 * 1) Yarfpr statement - The same issue with the shield.
 * 2) Eloquent statement  8/28 - present - communicating with Cookieman1.1.1 since 8/28