Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league

List of Hull F.C. players
I'm currently working on an update for this article (last updated in 2018), there's been a large turnover of players since then!

I'll be adding all new players since then, using Heritage Numbers | Hull FC as my primary reference, alongside other sources.

As part of this refresh, I plan to add a Heritage No. column (to bring it in line with corresponding lists articles for Featherstone, Oldham, Halifax, Leeds, Saints etc, plus the Aussie clubs).

I've been in touch with J Mo 101, who has put me straight on Heritage No. in the main player articles, so thanks for that.

Before I press the button, does anyone have any objections, or advice? All feedback gratefully received.

Robinson Drinkald (talk) 11:45, 25 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The only thing I would note is that the page is already quite large (over 300kb), which can slow down loading times etc, but removing all the duplicate links in the season columns would help with that. No issues otherwise, editing those huge lists can be a bit of a mammoth task, so appreciate the effort!. J Mo 101 (talk) 13:17, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Player infobox clarification
Regarding notability of clubs in rugby league players' infoboxes per MOS - rule "Players 3.a.ii" is in desperate need of clarification. I have noticed removal / absence of NSW Cup and Queensland Cup club statistics based off the fact that they are second tier competitions, despite being more notable clubs (rule 3.a.i) and actually having a Wikipedia page (rule 3.a.iii) than other clubs that would theoretically qualify with rule 3.a.ii. For example, as currently written, Lillestrøm Lions would qualify under rule 3.a.ii (as they are a Norwegian FIRST division team) but not Western Suburbs Magpies (as they are an Australian SECOND division team). In short, the rule excludes clubs that are way more notable than some of the clubs it includes. Mn1548 (talk) 22:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It could be time to review and update the MOS as it was written in 2008. The talk page archives for the infobox show various discussions from the time about what the infobox should include, but consensus on this may have changed given that most of the editors involved are no longer active and several of them were the same editor (later banned as a sockpuppet). EdwardUK (talk) 03:47, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I honestly had no idea that MOS page even existed. My understanding has always been that the following should be included:
 * UK: All teams in the top three divisions
 * Australia: NRL teams only (or NSWRL/Brisbane League for pre-NRL). Modern day Queensland Cup teams etc are generally excluded as they are considered "reserve grade" (with most of them being NRL feeder clubs).
 * There isn't really a consensus for clubs in other countries, as far as I know, but really obscure/amateur clubs should obviously be removed regardless of division. J Mo 101 (talk) 18:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * For other countries and lower level competitions a lack of sources could be a problem. I would not be opposed to including NSW/Queensland Cup teams and there are sources for them on sites like RugbyLeagueProject. This would be helpful for internationals playing for teams like PNG for whom the infobox would otherwise be almost empty if all their club appearances are for PNG Hunters. For affiliated clubs the names are easy to distinguish from the NRL sides, but to avoid confusion between NRL and their reserve grade sides their stats could be listed separately and marked as such by adding (NSW) after the team name (similar to how loans/dual registrations are noted). EdwardUK (talk) 21:30, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * "This would be helpful for internationals playing for teams like PNG for whom the infobox would otherwise be almost empty if all their club appearances are for PNG Hunters" This sums up my issue perfectly. Say for instance a player played for Brisbane Broncos for a few years, had a dip in form when over to PNG Hunters for a few years, then returned to the NRL, the missing stats would give the impression that said played abandoned the sport for those years in the Queensland Cup at first glance, especially for a reader unfamiliar with the topic. Even more important, for players spending their entire carer in the NSW / Queensland Cup. Mn1548 (talk) 22:24, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not qualified to speak on other countries, but am happy with the guidelines about NSW/Q Cup not being included as they are at a "reserve grade" level, as J Mo said. Doctorhawkes (talk) 11:54, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Are there sources to support this? No NRL reserve teams actually complete in the Queensland Cup, and the reserve teams competing in the NSW Cup doesn't necessarily make it a reserve competition (see my Real Madrid analogy below). Mn1548 (talk) 22:41, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Hence the quotation marks. Obviously it's a lower level competition, though. Details of lower grade competition can be covered in the article, but trying to distinguish in the infobox between a NSW Cup and NRL team with players playing for both simultaneously sounds ugly and misleading. And, honestly, I believe the average reader cares very little. The soccer examples just sound like WP:OTHERSTUFF. Doctorhawkes (talk) 07:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Regarding distinguishing in the infobox, that can be done quite clearly. "[Team] Reserves", "[Team] A", "[Team] II", etc. just use whatever official notation the respective club uses. Mn1548 (talk) 12:40, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Are there any sources to say that NSW / Queensland Cup are reserve grade competition? Obviously some NRL teams play there reserve sides in those tournaments, but they also have clubs whose first teams play in them also. Comparing to football, to me, its like like how Real Madrid Reserves compete in the Spainsh third tier (a senior competition) where as Manchester United Reserves compete in Professional Development League (a dedicated reserve competition). Mn1548 (talk) 22:18, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Just giving another example of the problems with the current system. PNG Hunters: currently stats from this club are not included because they are competing in "reserve grade", however if they opted to compete in the PNGNRL (their home league and a "first grade" competition) then we would despite the fact they would be arguably, a less notable club. Mn1548 (talk) 22:43, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Preprogram teams?
This is a bit tangential to the above, so I'm going to split it out here. If the intention is to only list certain clubs and certain levels of play, would it make sense to have the infobox disallow any team that does not fit that billing? In other words, if Team A and TeamB were input, but only TeamB was an "acceptable" team, Team A wouldn't be listed. If I've totally misread the intention of the above discussion feel free to trout me and hat this. Primefac (talk) 12:02, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It could be done, but the team list would be quite long and complicated if it had to take into account historic team names, piped links to the current names, and things like nowrap templates and loan/DR arrows. EdwardUK (talk) 19:32, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I do suppose that would be more useful as a "brand new infobox" territory where we could get it working the way we wanted right out of the gate. Retrofitting thousands of transclusions to ensure they match what we "want" is going to be more hassle than it's worth... Primefac (talk) 19:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * That would definitely add consistency to infoboxes of all players if it would be done. But would need a strong concensus and regular updating as it could end up being too indiscriminate. Mn1548 (talk) 22:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

What is an appearance?
Reading people's views on this, I think it's clear that the main question that needs to be answered is "What is an official club appearance in the eyes of International Rugby League?"

I think there needs to be a more universal approach to how the sport is viewed on the site (in all aspects of the sport not just player appearances) as its not a sport that only exists in the NRL or Super League which is how it seems to be treated sometimes. Mn1548 (talk) 12:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I mean... "Player A played a match for Club X" is an appearance in my mind. Is there another interpretation? Primefac (talk) 12:25, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Which would be my thoughts... specifically a senior men's, women's, or wheelchair competition. Mn1548 (talk) 08:59, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * IRL don't define domestic appearances, that's down to the national governing body. For our purposes, I'd say any competative match in a league or knockout tournament we acknowledge as notable. Nthep (talk) 13:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I feel in competitions we acknowledge as notable is a little vague and open to interpretation. I know in the most part players of non-notable competitions won't have articles, but I wouldn't surprise me if there is a top level player who started his career player for a club in a different country where the notability of said country's competition is questionable. But those stats are still stats and should be included. Mn1548 (talk) 09:05, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * RLP is a great resource, but is very incomplete. QLD/NSW cup appearance data only appears to have been recorded for the last decade or so, and adding this would lead to recency bias in comparison to past players. Sometimes less is more with the infobox (MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE encourages this approach). Any additional clubs a player appeared for can always be mentioned in the prose instead. J Mo 101 (talk) 10:13, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Fully agree with this, don't want any bais, and also don't want an overcrowded infobox. Just going back to football and how football players are displayed on Wikipedia, only senior league appearances are in the infobox then a full stats table below, trouble with that is very few rugby league players have a full stats box so that would be ALOT of work to implement that approach. Mn1548 (talk) 16:18, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There's no one size fits all answer to this question. If there is a top-level player who starts their career in a country where the sport is still amateur then it would need to be a case by case assessment of whether their first experiences are relevant to the infobox. As J Mo 101 says it's all relevant for the article text and either way needs to be verifiable.
 * At the moment we have a very disjoined line up about what we have regular coverage of and what we consider notable:
 * Any of the UK's professional/semi-pro divisions
 * NRL but not NSW/Queensland cups (which could be argued as equivalent to the Championship/League One in the UK)
 * France's Elite One
 * and that's about it. We have no decision over other (semi-)professional leagues like any domestic New Zealand league. Then there are the newcomers which will need to be looked at like the new USARL national league that kicks off today.
 * Basically it's fluid and the best we can say is look at it on an individual basis and was it notable enough in that player's career to warrant inclusion in the infobox? Nthep (talk) 12:34, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That is very true, my personal opinion is that Super League, Championship, League 1, Elite 1, Elite 2, NRL, NSW / Queensland Cup should be included. At least for me, from the UK, NSW / Queensland Cup seems more notable that League 1 and seems incredibly relevant for players who started in NRL dropped down then came back up, so to the casual reader is doesn't look like the player had a break for several years. Also as previously mentioned, the Pacific Island players who have tons of international information written about them but nothing on their club careers. In regards to USARL/PNGNRL/NZNC etc these are questions for the future, but based on what happens could need answering sooner rather than later. Mn1548 (talk) 16:27, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

List of Hull Kingston Rovers players
Hi everyone

It's me again.

I have a final draft of List of Hull Kingston Rovers players (last updated in 2018), so there have been 150+ additions since then.

My updates comprise:-


 * Additions since 2018
 * Omissions pre-2019 (quite a few actually)
 * 1st col is Heritage # (it helped tracking down omissions)
 * Removed duplicates (not many, but there were a couple)
 * Correcting x-refs to players (primary sources are: Rugby League Project, Wiki articles, Hull KR Heritage Numbers | Hull KR, and Mr.Google)

I have a couple of questions;


 * What's the consensus on 'position', should it be plain text, or is acceptable; just thinking about page-loading performance


 * Also, I've added a flagicon to the Representative col - it makes it eye-catching & colourful, but can easily be removed with a mass edit if there are objections.

As usual any feedback is very much appreciated. Robinson Drinkald (talk) 15:13, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There isn't really a strict consensus on positions, but I think repeating the same link on every row would be excessive. In the list I did for Wigan, the positions are abbreviated, but I just added a key at the top with wiki-links for each position, which you're more than welcome to copy. Flags for representative honours are fine as long it follows MOS:FLAG. J Mo 101 (talk) 19:11, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

RLWC info box
Could we change info boxes in Rugby league World Cup articles to include more information, similar to the ones used in soccer and rugby union international competitions Northern Wonder (talk) 20:34, 20 June 2024 (UTC)


 * such as? Nthep (talk) 20:58, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Here’s an example, the current info box:
 * compared to soccer:
 * Northern Wonder (talk) 21:20, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Northern Wonder (talk) 21:20, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

NRL Pre-season
I want to propose that the 2022 NRL pre-season results be redirected to National Rugby League or deleted, in addition to the 2023 NRL pre-season results and 2024 NRL pre-season results articles being renamed to 2023 NRL Pre-season Challenge and 2024 NRL Pre-season Challenge respectively. A collection of independently organised friendlies grouped on to one page is a trivial list and the information is better suited on the "2022 [team] season" pages. As for 2023 and 2024, these were organised by the NRL and the title of those pages should reflect the official name "Pre-season Challenge". Mn1548 (talk) 17:41, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Question
Does anyone know why this was the 2012 European Championship and not this? Mn1548 (talk) 15:36, 12 July 2024 (UTC)