Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league/Archive 27

Proposed deletion of Pacific Rugby League International


The article Pacific Rugby League International has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "This article is a weird grouping of unrelated international rugby league matches trying to unify them into one competition when the only thing they have in common is that they were held during the NRL midseason international break which not all of them even are. It is also unreferenced passed 2016."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Mn1548 (talk) 18:08, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Considering the matches are either Pacific Rugby League Championship matches (article already exists), Polynesian Cup / Melanesian Cup (both articles I have started to put information in the same place), World Cup warm up games (info exists of respective world cup pages), or random one off friendlies (info exists on "International Rugby League in YEAR" pages) there is zero reason why this page should exist. Mn1548 (talk) 18:13, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I have also proposed merges for the pages of individual years with the respective "International Rugby League in YEAR" pages or their outright deletion for those years which are blatant copies. Mn1548 (talk) 18:15, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I've de-PROD-ed these for now. Merge across any referenced content (especially prose) not in the IRL in YYYY articles then AfD them might be the best approach. Storm machine (talk) 13:55, 21 August 2023 (UTC)


 * UPDATE:

Opened AfD for Pacific Rugby League International following merging of all reference content to appropriate pages. Will notify here when done for the individual years. Mn1548 (talk) 16:44, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


 * 2010 Mn1548 (talk) 17:04, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 2016 Mn1548 (talk) 17:14, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 2017 Mn1548 (talk) 17:38, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 2018 Mn1548 (talk) 17:44, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 2022 Mn1548 (talk) 17:50, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * AfD for this is closed now. Mn1548 (talk) 17:16, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Marketing vs Reality
I'd imagine most people who read this talk page are all ready aware of this and are doing stuff to fix it but I am writing this anyway just incase it reaches someone who it benefits:

It's come to me recently aftet reading a few Rugby League pages, just how many pages across Rugby League are written in a way that is inline with marketing and branding, and so for some pages it has resulted in a lot of reality being omitted from the page.

Don't really know what the point this talk is, but it's something to think about for anyone adding content to Rugby League pages. Mn1548 (talk) 21:45, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * what the point this talk is - for people to bring up issues like these, give examples, and get those issues fixed. Primefac (talk) 13:12, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Could you give us an example to what you are referring to? Northern Wonder (talk) 21:09, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * What prompted me to put this here was what I read (fixed now) on Championship Grand Final and Million Pound Game re "In 2019, the Million Pound Game was kept as the promotion deciding final, however in 2022 the name "Millions Pound Game" was dropped in favour of the return of the Championship Grand Final", which reads as "the Million Pound Game was scrapped in 2019 and saw the return of the Championship Grand Final, but marketed as the Million Pound Game until 2022", which if you look at the references and what actually happened it's the latter not the former that is correct. This lead to a few statments across Wikipedia that the Million Pound Game game was still in use until 2021, which by itself is fine, but when the article for the Million Pound Game describes it as a game between play 4 and 5 in the qualifiers for the final promotion spot to Super League, then it become wrong.
 * That I felt would have caused confusion for alot of readers as there was very little which states that the keeping of the name was for marketing purposes or that the format had changed.
 * Other examples are overuse of sponsored names, common one recently is 1895 Cup vs AB Sundecks - the latter (in this case, and most cases) fails WP:UCRN, or phrases like "Northern Hemisphere rugby" when you mean Super League or "Southern Hemisphere rugby" when you mean NRL, and defining both the leagues as "the top division of rugby in the Northern/Southern hemisphere" as while correct in implies for example a team from Japan has a promotion route to the Super League as it's a Northern Hemisphere country. Mn1548 (talk) 13:48, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Rugby League Championships
I'm questioning the need for this article as it's almost entirely unreferenced, hasn't had any major updates since 2017, and basically just repeates information from RFL Championship and RFL League 1. The only reason I haven't AfDed it is because both leagues were collectively refered to as "The Championships" and therefore to my knowledge, the information is accurate. But happy to welcome any thoughs on how to proceed with this article. Mn1548 (talk) 17:12, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge any relevant content into British rugby league system or British rugby league system as appropriate. Nthep (talk) 17:24, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I think that entire article should be:
 * "The RFL Championships was a collective name for both the RFL Championship and RFL Championship 1, however the name started to fall out of use when the Championship 1 changed its name to League 1 in 2015."
 * A redirect follow merge to British rugby league system wouldn't make sense in my opinion as I'd imagine most people searching this article would be looking for Championship or League 1.
 * Also, appart from very recent infomation (which this article doesn't have being out of date) there really isn't anything to merge over. Mn1548 (talk) 19:56, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * then make it a disambiguation page. Nthep (talk) 20:13, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Will do, thanks for the suggestion. Mn1548 (talk) 13:23, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've edited that page to make it look more like a proper disambiguation page, but there are still a lot of incoming links to it which need fixing. --Bcp67 (talk) 08:14, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Player's short descriptions.
Think we should avoid acronyms in short description as they may not be clear to readers with no prior knollage.

ie
 * Rugby League over RL
 * Great Britain over GB
 * New Zealand over NZ
 * and over &

seem to be quite common ones. Mn1548 (talk) 16:39, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

League One vs League 1
When did the RFL change the name of "League 1" to "League One". I can't find anything on the RFL website re a date, but they are using "One" now whereas at the start of the season they were using "1", however the "sponsor" section on thr article states it changed in 2022. I remember reverting some edits changing "1" to "One" at the start of the season because the RFL website was still using "1", but now they are using "One" it might be a good time to move the page, and backdated if anyone can find a date for the change. Mn1548 (talk) 14:50, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I think it's been One all season. When I created the season article I named it 2023 RFL League One based on the RFL nomenclature. That said I wouldn't move RFL League 1 to RFL League One but just note the presentational change in the lead. Nthep (talk) 15:20, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've since noted that originally proposed a name change on RFL League 1's talk page in August 2022, so I'm assuming the official change was back then. With that in mind, I would be in favour of a move as the title should reflect the current stylisation of the competition by the RFL and also move the 2023 page aswell. Mn1548 (talk) 18:21, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it should be RFL League One that’s what it’s officially called now. Although there are questions over whether the competition will continue Northern Wonder (talk) 20:14, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Regardless of if it will continue or not it should be it's current official name or last official name as the title. Mn1548 (talk) 14:08, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It needs moving to RFL League One then Northern Wonder (talk) 20:21, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Club colours/icons
Does anyone have any opinions on whether the club colours at Template:League icon should be removed from articles (e.g. 2023 NRL season, Super League XXVIII)? To me, they don't serve any purpose other than decoration, which is against MOS:DECOR, but they are in use on a lot of articles, so wanted to get some other opinions before suggesting deletion or anything like that. J Mo 101 (talk) 17:16, 17 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I'd quite happily get rid of them for failing MOS:DECOR. Nthep (talk) 17:53, 17 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't think they serve any purpose. Doctorhawkes (talk) 00:58, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Happy for their usage to be much reduced as they do fail MOS:DECOR. On the NRL season pages, my preference would be to:
 * Keep in teams table;
 * Keep in ladder;
 * Remove in ladder progression;
 * Remove in finals series table and bracket;
 * Maybe remove in individual game scoreboards (eg. NRL Grand Final);
 * Remove in and reformat player statistics table (ie add club in text);
 * Remove with extreme prejudice in attendance tables;
 * Remove with extreme prejudice in player movement table.
 * I think there is some utility in keeping them in the ladders for now, but am more than happy to go with any consensus. I was on the fence about them being in the important/expanded game scoreboards, but am leaning towards remove there too. Storm machine (talk) 05:28, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * MOS:TOOMANY is a serious issue on a lot of these types of pages (Australian rugby league premiers is a particularly egregious example). I just tried removing the icons from the Super League page but was immediately reverted, so there are clearly some users who disagree... J Mo 101 (talk) 19:49, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I see no harm in keeping them personally. It helps differentiate between clubs easily and it’d take a while to remove them from every article.
 * That said if we go down the route of scrapping them I’d keep them in:
 * League tables/ladders
 * Team tables
 * Results tables
 * Northern Wonder (talk) 19:56, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * To be honest I quite like them, I find the colours help distinguish different clubs in long tabled lists of match results and lists of competitions champions etc, better than just the name of the club only. I think this distinguishability does help with comprehension of the article, so in contrast to MOS:DECOR, I think that these icons serve more than a deceptive purposes. But as already mentioned, overuse would have the opposite effect.
 * I do however, strongly object to their use for national and other representative sides. Flagicons should be used here wherever possible. Mn1548 (talk) 17:13, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I can go with inclusion in
 * team tables
 * league tables/ladders
 * results tables
 * and exclude from
 * ladder progression
 * transfer lists
 * ladder progression
 * individual game scoreboards where rugbyleaguebox or another template is used
 * player statistics table
 * attendance tables
 * infoboxes
 * Nthep (talk) 17:46, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Don't know if this discussion has been finalised or anything but I want to get my 2 cents in just in case.
 * I agree with removing the icons from most of the tables, while they're a nice enough thing to have they aren't that useful especially when right next to the team's name.
 * However, I don't see the logic in removing them entirely from infoboxes or the player statistics section of a season article. Being able to quickly identify what team a player who was one of the top tryscorers was from seems like the perfect use for the icons, it avoids having to open 20 articles to check if somebody doesn't know (especially for past seasons where a player was with a different club than they are currently). I'd keep them in the ladder (so they can be matched with the team name somewhere on the page) and then those two sections with player info (transfers don't need them since the players are listed in team order anyway)PhinsUp23 (talk) 00:45, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Having an icon in the infobox seems to be the very definition of pointless decoration. Doctorhawkes (talk) 02:16, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You can argue that they're pointless decoration anywhere then, they don't actually do anything of value when placed next to team names in the team tables or results table, but in the sections for Top points/try scorer(s) and Player of the Year they can actually convey information that isn't otherwise shown. Putting them next to player names gives an immediate indication of which team the top point scorer etc. played for in a given season without having to check the articles. As an example, Michael Jennings was one of 2013's tied top tryscorers but how many people honestly remember he played for the Roosters at that point. Kyle Flanagan was 2020's top goalkicker, also not a player everyone associates with the Roosters. We list 20+ players on every season page in the "top 5 x" section, I don't see why it's controversial to include an icon showing which team they all played when the alternatives are checking 20+ articles, remembering every player's clubs for every year off by heart, or putting the team name in in text form which is the same as using an icon but takes up more space. PhinsUp23 (talk) 02:43, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I misunderstood. I can see the value of the icon in the season infobox. Doctorhawkes (talk) 03:22, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * All good. if you thought i meant stat infoboxes on player articles or something, I don't think those matter. Just think the icons are a good way of showing a player's club in certain scenarios like where on the season articles it isn't stated directly.PhinsUp23 (talk) 03:48, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The trouble with the icons alone is that they don't tell you which club you're talking about. I can't just look at an icon and tell you which NRL team it is and in the same way I'm guessing you don't know every British team solely by its colours. Proper identification of the club, which is 100% required, is by text.
 * One of the problems here is that all of us in this discussion are fans of the game and we are all falling into the same trap of editing as if everyone reading the articles is of the same bent. They aren't, and we shouldn't be writing as such. It's Wikipedia, not Leagueopedia. Nthep (talk) 06:24, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Technically you can, if you hover over the icon it tells you Brisbane, South Sydney, Wigan, etc., but even if you couldn't do that I support leaving them in an unobtrusive spot like the ladder or team list as well so you can easily identify and match them on the page. We don't need hundreds of icons spammed in every single table, grand final template etc, but I don't see why we should be actively making it more intrusive to find which club the various top tryscorers etc are from. We could put the team name in brackets or something but in my opinion the infobox formatting is neater with a simple icon.
 * I don't disagree with cutting things that serve no purpose, and having icons next to every single mention of a team name serves no purpose besides drawing the eye a bit easier, but I would argue that identifying a player's club is a good enough purpose to warrant the icons, or at the very least is a good enough purpose to warrant not actively removing them. The 3 options where they're retained seem a little arbitrary too, the team tables are in alphabetical order and don't need the icons (except for the fact that they're relevant to their usage in the rest of the article), and the ladder and ladder progression tables are functionally identical aside from width but one has icons and the other doesn't. I don't particularly care about whether the ladder/results tables warrant them or not, after all there has to be an easy place to find them on the page, but I'd definitely argue they're more decorative in a results table when they're just sitting next to a team name then when they're next to player names and can easily identify their club.
 * I'd also argue with regards to your last point that having icons next to player names is better for people who aren't rugby league fans, and I'll use 2018 as an example. Say I've never watched rugby league until this year, then stumbled onto this article. Of the 16 players in the stats and records section, I'm not going to recognise 6 of the names at all, since 2 have left for the super league and 4 have retired, and 8 of the 10 names I will recognise were playing for a different club at the time. With no icon I'd have to check 14 separate articles to figure out which team they were playing for (if I've never watched it at all I'd have to check every article), with an icon I can just hover over it (assuming I haven't figured them out yet). Having the team name also works, and if there's no budging on using icons to identify players I'd at least think that works as a backup, but is it really worth changing the templated tables on every season article to fit an extra column instead of just assuming people can recognise an icon from earlier in the article and/or read the tooltip? PhinsUp23 (talk) 07:45, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The icons aren't unique and there's reuse which the tooltip doesn't help the reader with. For example, Burleigh Bears - what icon is used? A - File:Manly Sea Eagles colours.svg so I hover and the tooltip says Manly Sea Eagles. Not only unhelpful but the opposite, downright confusing. We should not be using the icons on their own as the substitute for text. It's either the icon AND text for the team name, or text alone, never icon alone.
 * Michael Jennings (Sydney Roosters) or Michael Jennings (Sydney Roosters) is a lot more informative and easier to understand than
 * Michael Jennings (hover over the icon and see what it says) Nthep (talk) 10:46, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

can we try and reach a concensus on this before it drifts out of the consciousness. Nthep (talk) 11:59, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Nthep's suggestion seems balanced to me. Doctorhawkes (talk) 12:03, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Being completely honest, I'm not attached to the idea of keeping them, nor getting rid of them. Nthep's suggestion does seem balance though and not too exsesive either way. Mn1548 (talk) 12:13, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Happy with your list there, agree with Mn1548 re flagicons for international scoreboards and some statistics tables. I think that the final part of this process is to change the documentation over at the leagueicons template page to indicate that their usage is being "retired" as per MOS:DECOR and list the specific instances that they should and shouldn't be used. Storm machine (talk) 22:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I am probably against their use more than most, but I'm happy to go with the majority if we think they can be used in moderation. The main challenge will putting any changes into practice, as quite a few editors seem to add icons everywhere out of habit.
 * I would just add a couple of points:
 * I would have concerns about using them in historical tables, especially the early years of the UK/Australian leagues. Many team colours have changed over the years, and using the 'traditional' colours most of us are familiar with would be misleading/inaccurate.
 * For amateur teams or more obscure leagues, I would still be more in favour of removing the icons completely. Most of the icons are just recycled from existing professional teams, and would only serve as a visual aid for a very limited number of people. J Mo 101 (talk) 09:07, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Good points. If it was my choice, I would also have close to none, but I can appreciate others like them. It's just trying to find a balance.Doctorhawkes (talk) 10:21, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm happy to write some documentation for league icon. I've copied Super League XXVIII over to a sandbox page with the proposed usages/non-usages of icons included. Please check if I've got the understanding right (I know I haven't done the GF). Nthep (talk) 11:11, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I've updated League icon/doc. Nthep (talk) 14:20, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Highest attendances
I’ve noticed in early season articles of Super League, in the info box the highest attendance is listed as the highest league attendance of the regular season not the playoffs, Grand Final or Magic Weekend. Soccer articles do the same, it’s the highest regular season attendance, they do not include the playoffs.

Can we make this the same for every season article and have the highest attendance as the highest regular season attendance and not playoffs or magic weekend Northern Wonder (talk) 11:50, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I've had trouble with this aswell, and fully agree. It should be for regular season only, otherwise we might aswell change the "highest attendance" parameter to "Grand Final attendance". Higest attendance in regular season only is a more useful statistic. Mn1548 (talk) 12:02, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Squad tables
What's with the new types of squad table that are being used on 2023 Tonga rugby league tour of England and 2023 Pacific Rugby League Championships squads?

It's visual overkill with too much information being presented and alot of inconsistencies across them. A more simplified table like on 2021 Men's Rugby League World Cup squads would be better. Mn1548 (talk) 08:51, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Agreed. The other tables contain information irrelevant to the series - if you want to know a player's international career, click through to the article on the player, that's what links are for.
 * Have a look at 2021 Women's Rugby League World Cup squads for the complete dog's dinner this can become. Nthep (talk) 19:00, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Jeezzz, that's even worse than what's gone on the Pacific Championship and Tonga Tour page... Either way, I've trimmed the tour page to what I think is easily readable, but won't be opposed to anymore trimmed of the squad table, and will probably do the same to the Pacific Championship squads aswell at some point. Mn1548 (talk) 21:34, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * If you will pardon my French, those tables are a visual eye fuck. Get rid of the colours, get rid of the last half of the columns (i.e. the "player history" bits) and just put them as a normal table with tournament-specific information. Primefac (talk) 13:10, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * 2021 Women's Rugby League World Cup squads is done. Nthep (talk) 16:03, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I did change the templates at 2023 Pacific Rugby League Championships squads but my edits were reverted by user:Nhoj1898. I've informed him of this discussion.
 * To restate my concerns: The tables contain far too much information, they do not need to contain details of every player's full international and domestic careers. That's the purpose of links and why we have articles about players. I know the Pacific championships are specifically a southern hemisphere event but even if it is accepted that the career information is needed, it is not being presented in a way that is understandable in a global fashion as it only includes NRL information and relegates any non-NRL career to a collapsed table. Nthep (talk) 15:06, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Nthep and @Mn1548
 * As I was not aware of this forum, I was aware of this discussion until my work on the squads page was undone yesterday.
 * My rationale is to include international, club and other rep matches in the table as a one screen snapshot for each team. I am very pleased with how they look. Your opinion differs, but at the time the change was made there is only the two of you. Pageviews have been over 150 for the last 10 days without other complaints.
 * A flaw of the player pages is that each requires a manual update. There is not an automated API link to the Rugby League Project. What I have done for the tournament is to shortcut the manual updates and more so for the Women's tournament cater for players that do not have a page.
 * I had the thought to include information about non-NRL players and their club as collapsible tables so as to look neater when viewed from a laptop/PC. I was aware when viewed from a mobile it would be automatically displayed. If you know of a workaround, then please let me know. An alternative I am open to is listing the information at the end of the article, so as to keep the squads section neat, without losing the primary intent of my design.
 * A third alternative I am open to is to list the club names without the logos rather than the other way around. The reason I chose logos is the length of St George Illawarra Dragons (the club I happen to support). My intent here was to keep the info to one line.
 * The comment about the Women's World Cup 2921 squad pages is funny, as in response to a comment on that last year I have aimed for consistency in the PC squads page, as much as information will allow. This is why I have included the men's teams in the same page, when my interest is greater in the women's game. The difference between teams in the WWC was that I was attempting to snapshot as much information as possible.
 * Regards
 * John Moriarty
 * 3/12 St Andrews Place
 * Cronulla
 * Australia
 * (although I am in Townsville at present, having attended the games yesterday evening) Nhoj1898 (talk) 22:57, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, it's not that some of the information isn't relevant, it's that it makes the table too busy and harder to pick out that information which is better found on that players article.
 * These were the issue with the Tonga squad table when I trimmed it down:
 * Full name of clubs are needed
 * NRL stats aren't needed on a page not about the NRL
 * Super League clubs are NOT representative sides
 * Other representation is already in the notes section, coloured boxes with number means nothing and is repeated information anyway
 * Super League clubs shouldn't be treated differently to NRL clubs
 * Notes aren't needed to tell you what league a club plays in, they are linked to their own articles
 * 2019 Tonga Invitational was declared a full Tonga international by the IRL.
 * Mn1548 (talk) 08:56, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I would also definitely be in favour of trimming these way down. Compare the 2021 Men's Rugby League World Cup squads article, it delivers all the information you could possibly need (except for a proper breakdown of the points) without any extra fat. For consistency's sake we should be using something like that, player ages are unnecessary since they're never brought up in any other articles besides their own, while statistics for previous international games are completely irrelevant to the Pacific Championships and should be broken down on player articles as well. Nobody who goes looking for the 2023 Kangaroos side is going to need to know from a passing glance that James Tedesco played for Italy and the PM's XIII six years ago. PhinsUp23 (talk) 00:58, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I can see the intent of these detailed tables as the amount of NRL and international experience in each squad may be of interest to some readers, but I agree that the tables are too busy and these statistics are best suited to the individual articles. Player DOBs and ages are listed on 2019 Rugby League World Cup 9s squads, inspired by the style of pages such as 2022 FIFA World Cup squads and 2023 Rugby World Cup squads, so it seems there is precedent for including this information. Narkova (talk) 07:32, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * no opinion on age, might be of some interest especially if there are sources commenting on "it's a young/old squad". DoB is possibly another case of it should be in the player article anyway, so is it needed here.
 * I agree with @PhinsUp23 that points should be broken out. One question, is a separate column for drop/field goals needed as they are fairly uncommon or can they be lumped in with goals and dealt with by a note that the total includes "x dg"? Nthep (talk) 10:58, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Article proposal
I am contemplating making a draft article on the "Farrell-O'Loughlin family tree" and it's impact on rugby, both league and union, but to start I'd need a family tree and I am having trouble with the code. I will post what I have so far and if anyone can give me s better alternative it would be most appreciated. Mn1548 (talk) 21:07, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Keiron O'Loughlin
 * Andy Farrell and Colleen O’Loughlin
 * Owen Farrell
 * Phil Farrell
 * Sean O'Loughlin
 * Unnamed sibling and partner
 * Liam Farrell
 * Connor Farrell
 * Kevin O'Loughlin

I'd ideally need something the better displays multiple ancestors. Mn1548 (talk) 21:07, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Maybe something a bit like this? I'm not sure how it will look on the page, but it looks reasonable from the preview window.


 * Source for Andy and Phil Farrell's parents' names:
 * Source for Liam and Connor Farrell's father being a first cousin of Andy and Phil:
 * I hope this helps! Narkova (talk) 08:51, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thankyou, that's a big help! Mn1548 (talk) 14:41, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Grading
With IMG announcing clubs’ grading results should there be an article created on it just as there is one on super league licensing? Northern Wonder (talk) 20:20, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * As there was an article for the last licencing period, I don't see why there can't be one for this current licensing period either. There has been plenty of coverage off it so far so referencing it shouldn't be a problem. Mn1548 (talk) 08:44, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Question is what should the article be called? The previous article was Super League Licensing but this is the entire pro game. Perhaps RFL Grading? Northern Wonder (talk) 15:48, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Either that or "IMG Grading for the RFL" seen as it's not the RFL actually grading the clubs. Mn1548 (talk) 08:24, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation of RFL Championships
Could you help to fix the ambiguous link to RFL Championships? In some articles it is unclear whether RFL Championship or RFL League 1 should be the target of the link. The list of problem links can be seen at Disambig fix list for RFL Championships. Any help appreciated.&mdash; Rod talk 09:41, 16 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for bringing this up and providing the list, will look to help when and where I can. Mn1548 (talk) 14:46, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work on this - I see a few have been fixed but there are still 91 links. If it helps you can go to your preferences (drop down list top right), choose the "Gadgets" tab & scroll down to Appearance & put a tick next to "Display links to disambiguation pages in orange" & this will highlight relevant links.&mdash; Rod talk 10:54, 25 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Actually, I think the original page should be restored. There are some articles that refer to the "overall" league system (from 2003-08) of 3 leagues, National League 1, National League 2, and National League 3, and so there is no good location to link to. Natg 19 (talk) 18:37, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There's somewhere to link to at British rugby league system. Probably needs more expansion though. Nthep (talk) 20:02, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Draft:2023 Rugby League European Championship B
I have resubmitted the above article. If for whatever reason this article is denied creation again I will be merging it's contents with 2023 Rugby League European Championship or creating the page regardless. I find it rediculas that the Euro B article was split from the Euro A article of the basis of it being "separately notable" then later deleted for failing generally notability, on what was apparently a concensus. Some of the comments on the draft submissions feedback have been quite hypocritical compared to other articles and downright incorrect. Also considering how interlinked each divison of the competition is now there is information on the Euro A article which isn't 100% clear now that the links to Euro B are non existent. If these competitions were to be cancelled instead of postponed I'd consider a condensed article similar to 2025 Rugby League World Cup as another alternative. Mn1548 (talk) 15:27, 26 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Is Euro B ever likely to happen? If not, I'd wrap it up in 2023 Rugby League European Championship as another casualty of 2025 World Cup fiasco.
 * If notability of Euro B is likely to be an ongoing issue, then perhaps a solution is to create 2023 Rugby League European Championships and cover both tournaments in one article. It's a pity ERFL haven't explicitly named the top tournament Euro A, which would make things so much easier in defining what 2023 Rugby League European Championship actually refers to. Nthep (talk) 09:58, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that's the best option to be fair providing it gets cancelled, though I can see it being played next year with the winner (or second place if won by England) going to the 2025 World Series. True, from what I can gather Euro A B C D only became names from the promotion and relegation era but are still unofficial names. Would make every alot easier to define. We might get a clearer picture if one of these tournaments are ever played as I think the competition would be a big help for European rugby. Mn1548 (talk) 12:14, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks like there has been a cut-and-paste move from 2023 Rugby League European Championship, which has now been redirected to 2023 Rugby League European Championships - the page should have been moved properly. The page history will now have to be merged into the history of the newly-created article. It's not the first time this has happened on a RL article. Can you request the history merge please, instructions here - WP:REPAIR. --Bcp67 (talk) 12:48, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Ignore that last message, I've added the request for history merge myself., you're an admin - are you able to do the merge? Bcp67 (talk) 13:00, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Bcp67 History merged (successfully I hope). Nthep (talk) 14:23, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me, thanks Bcp67 (talk) 14:28, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Super League logos
I’ve noticed most seasons of Super League do not have that seasons logo included in the info box. I’ve counted 11 different logos have been used and shouldn’t be too hard to upload and use in articles Northern Wonder (talk) 22:26, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Mid-season transfers
Are there any objections to adding a new section to the Player Transfers section of season articles to list mid-season transfers separately, similar to players who are loaned out to other clubs? It would avoid some of the confusion with the existing format, like having to list a player as departing in 2024 even if they left in the first few rounds of 2023. Would also help with players like Fa'amanu Brown who started 2023 at one club, switched mid-season, and is now set to head to a 3rd next year. PhinsUp23 (talk) 10:07, 12 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Personally I think the squad tables in articles needs looking at. I do t think they’re great to look at. I don’t think there’s really any need for a transfer section when this should be included in clubs season articles Northern Wonder (talk) 12:20, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the transfer list definitely has a place since its much simpler than having to check 17 different pages per season. Some team-specific seasons don't even have articles, the 2022 NRL season for instance is missing four. PhinsUp23 (talk) 12:39, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah there are lots of club season articles that need creating. The transfer section in club articles is only for the current season though Northern Wonder (talk) 14:30, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * If the club articles have been regularly updated and referenced, then the history/old revisions can be used to retrieve the squad and transfer information from previous years if/when articles on the club seasons are created. EdwardUK (talk) 18:34, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * No, not at all, the more information the better (providing it doesn't become too much to not easily read). Agree with @Northern Wonder's point re transfers are much better suited to club season's articles, but this would result in a lot of lost information as what @PhinsUp23 said re the vast majority of club season's articles don't exist. Mn1548 (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Are transfers notable information in relation to a whole season of a league? Transfers are relevant to a club's season (and the article on the player), not the league season.  The absence of club's season articles is not a reason to throw the information into another article just because that article exists and another doesn't. Nthep (talk) 20:49, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Watchlist
I tried the watchlist link on the main page for this project and found that it is broken because the tool it used stopped working several years ago. However, WikiProject Yorkshire has an alternative method for creating a watchlist and as a participant in that project I find this helpful for monitoring for errors and disruptive edits as well as for noting changes that could be useful for improving other similar articles. Their watchlist works by using Special:RecentChangesLinked with a set of wikiproject sub-pages that list all the articles that have been tagged by the project and I think it should be possible to set up something similar for Rugby league. EdwardUK (talk) 19:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Done – the link to the watchlist has been updated EdwardUK (talk) 01:41, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Rugby
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Rugby that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Super League season articles
Is it time we ditched the roman numerals format and just used 2024 Super League season as the main article title, per WP:UCRN? Compare "Super League XXIX" with "2024 Super League", and the latter generates far more search results, and I am not sure they are even used for the official name anymore, as I can't find any mention of "XXIX" on the Super League's own website. J Mo 101 (talk) 21:07, 8 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Seems sensible to me. Nthep (talk) 10:32, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I have created a RM proposal here. J Mo 101 (talk) 09:38, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Challenge Cup semi final
Request Challenge Cup semi final be moved to draft space as article is incomplete and unreferenced. Mn1548 (talk) 20:20, 30 March 2024 (UTC)


 * To be honest, it should probably be sent to AfD, as it's already been PROD'ed a couple of times. Semi finals aren't really notable enough to be considered anything more than trivia. J Mo 101 (talk) 23:51, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
 * If we take FA Cup semi-finals, the Challenge Cup article has the potential to be a well written article, but agree it shouldn't exist in the mainspace in its current state. Mn1548 (talk) 09:24, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * No further discussion will move to draft for now. Mn1548 (talk) 09:54, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Phil Lowe
Was his move to Manley a loan, if KR had the power to recall him after three years? Mn1548 (talk) 15:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Manly paid £15,000 to sign Lowe for three years, after which he would either return to Rovers on a free transfer, or stay with Manly a further two years if an additional £10,000 was paid (which of course the two clubs later disagreed over). I don't think it was really a loan, the RFL were still using the Retain and transfer system at the time, so presumably Rovers kept him on the club register so he couldn't sign for another club when he returned to England. J Mo 101 (talk) 15:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Cheers, thanks. Mn1548 (talk) 13:00, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Asia-Pacific Rugby League contradiction
Infbox states organisation is based in Brisbane whereas history section says it is based in Auckland. Both are unsourced. Mn1548 (talk) 16:19, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Someone changed it to Brisbane without a source. I've switched it back as the official site says Auckland. J Mo 101 (talk) 17:45, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Incorrect DOBs added by User:Hugh 3476
Just a friendly reminder to adhere to WP:RELIABILITY and WP:NOR when editing, and to check for incorrect information in articles if possible! I've noticed several players of the pre-WWII era had unsourced DOBs listed which were incorrect and not even similar to the correct date. It appears these were added by User:Hugh 3476 (since banned for unrelated reasons) around 2018-19 and remained on the pages uncontested ever since. Some examples: Narkova (talk) 10:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Roy Bossi: Hugh's edit, my correction
 * Tom Nevin: Hugh's edit, my correction
 * Charles Rice (rugby league): Hugh's edit, my correction
 * Stan Robinson (rugby league): Hugh's edit, my correction
 * Clarrie Tupper: Hugh's edit, my correction


 * Moral of the story, any IP that's 1.14x.xxx.xxx, or 1.12x.xxx.xxx be suspicious of. Local Potentate (talk) 21:51, 10 May 2024 (UTC)