Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league/Archive 4

Featured Lists
I'm considering nominating both List of golden point games and Australian rugby league champions for featured lists soon. Does anyone have any objections or suggestions for any futher additions to the articles? Cheers all. mdmanser 03:32, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Some pointers
 * Both articles are orphaned. The Australian rugby league champions page only has 1 link (National Rugby League) and the List of golden point games dosen't have any. In fact the only link to the golden point one is the link above. If there are no links, no one knows they exist. Find links to revelent articles.

Compared to the featured list criteria
 * Useful
 * Australian rugby league champions is, useful.
 * List of golden point games, maybe
 * Comprehensive
 * Both are.
 * Factually accurate
 * Both are, though you need to correctly reference the one on golden point.
 * Uncontroversial
 * Both are.
 * Stable
 * Both are.
 * Well-constructed
 * Both are.
 * Lead
 * Golden Point has a good lead.
 * champions, sort of. It has a history section ... needs some work
 * hierarchical headings
 * Golden point has no headings (however the criteria states where appropriate
 * champions, no problem.
 * Substantial list
 * No problems
 * Images
 * None (you can't really count the league icons.)

Note where I say No problem or Both are, which states my personal opinion on the article. FL reviewers may think differently.  SpecialWindler   talk  09:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I didn't know of the existence of the champions list since there are no links to it. Not sure what should link to it; but perhaps we could have each of the Season articles link to it. Would there be merit and any point in doing that ? -Sticks66 11:12, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think we should avoid "see also" sections in all instances. However, perhaps for the champions list linking would be via the National Rugby League template might be an option. If you check out National Football League articles, they have a range of lists and pages that are given in the template. Perhaps compiling a list of similar pages for this may be an option for the National Rugby League. Thanks for your comments by the way - I'll nominate them both within the hour. mdmanser 11:39, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Image(s) of the Titans playing at Carrara Stadium
I've been trying to find an image of the Titans playing a game at Carrara Stadium. I haven't had much luck but hopefully someone else here might. Bongomanrae 09:58, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * There haven't been any free images on Flickr for the entire season for any teams or stadia. Apart from that source I can't think of any other place apart from asking nicely on an internet forum (the www.titans.com.au website has one, for instance). See how you do there. Perhaps we (the project) could get a username on one of the forums (leagueunlimited) when we need stuff like this. mdmanser 10:15, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know any but Flickr. Remember for pics from flickr, they must be

Go here http://www.flickr.com/search/advanced/ Then tick Only search within Creative Commons-licensed photos, Find content to use commercially, Find content to modify, adapt, or build upon Then search, only these ones can be allowed on Wikipedia.

 SpecialWindler   talk  10:39, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing me to that advanced search function. I've only ever used the normal one for "National Rugby League" with few results. However, I have done a simple "rugby league" search and came up with a few things that we may be able to use in the future from this user. However, we might need to ask him politely to change his licencing tag to allow us to use images. mdmanser 11:30, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Not at Carrara, but this message board http://zerotolerance05.proboards74.com/index.cgi?board=wtp often has decent pics of Tigers opposition teams. There's a Titan's thread from a few weeks back. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 11:43, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Jamie Lyon
The article Jamie Lyon a member of this project nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. It hasn't failed because it's basically a good article, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Jamie Lyon for things needed to be addressed. Davnel03 13:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Test matches
Do we have an article on international test matches in rugby league? I couldn't find anything, and there's nothing listed in Test match (disambiguation). Maybe I'm just being temporarily blind, hence my question here. Cheers,  Daniel  09:01, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

User:Jaranda/Notabilty (sports)
Hi, I strongly recommed this project to give your notabilty guidelines for a new notabilty proposal that I'm creating on my userpage, once it is completed, I will move to wikipedia namespace for the community to decide. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 22:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Has anyone looked at this notability criteria for RL that has made it's way into Jaranda's comprehensive guidelines for notability across many sports ? Should we have some input and take control ? (Numbering added below for ease of commentary)

''A player of rugby league would be deemed notable to have their own article on Wikipedia if they: 1 Have played first grade rugby league (depending on country) 2 Have played more than 10 first grade games OR 3 Have played in a first grade team consistently 4 ''Have had a good rugby league career in second grade (depending on country). 5 Have played in more than one year of rugby league. ''Other personalities surrounding the game are notable if they: 6 Are a consistent first grade rugby league commentator 7 A referee that has refereed at least 100 games 8 A notable newspaper/other media journalist

I think this sets the bar at a rather low level but hey, there are already plenty of rookies who have stubs. What would be valuable though might be to list some order of priority. I think if a player has represented his country he is undoubtedly notable and that should be 1). State representation is important in Aus but irrelevant elsewhere so let's forget that (although there is the odd player who has represented Qld or NSW without ever having played Sydney or Brisb 1st grade) Current 4) needs to go I reckon - I certainly won't be writing articles about players who never played 1st grade. As for the rest 1), 2), 3) and 5) are just variations (qualifications) of the same thing and 3) is meaningless. This I reckon is what we should debate and also clarify what do we mean by first grade ? How do the different competitions (over the ages) in different parts of the UK; NZ provinces/cities and Sydney v Brisbane v Country NSW v Country Qld all fit in. As for 8) I'm not sure that "a journalist is notable if he is notable" is much help -Sticks66 11:46, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

2007 Run on Teams
I have noticed that all super leage and national league teams now feature "Run on Teams" on the main article page. Is this a current project by the Wiki project rugby league? If so, could you please explain the necessity of such information. These teams are unverifiable and amount to only speculation. Not encyclopedic at all. Nouse4aname 08:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * We have already discussed this, the is a minor discussion in one of the archives (probably the most recent one) but the major discussion is at here as part of the discussion forums.  SpecialWindler   talk  08:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The consuses that they were allowed on 2007 pages but not main articles.  SpecialWindler   talk  08:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You miss my point, these "run on teams" are on all of the main article pages, not the 2007 pages, and thus should be removed. Nouse4aname 10:15, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I am completely against having them anywhere on Wikipedia, however, there are certain members of the project would like to see them stay on so I'm not going to argue further unless someone conducts a vote. Apart from adding little to the article in the first place, as you said they are often of a highly speculative nature and don't really mean a good deal to the actual match anyway. As for club season articles - I don't see the point of them anyway. Most of will never go any higher than stubs and anything that needs to be said should be done so in the season competition articles. mdmanser 09:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Overriding majority stated that their place was on the 2007 pages. Londo06 10:16, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I too am completely against them on wikipedia, but if they must go somewhere then it should be the 2007 page. If a 2007 page doesn't exist, then either one should be created, or the run on team just not put in the article. The fact is that these teams cannot be verified and are entirely not encyclopedic. They do not belong on wikipedia. Nouse4aname 10:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Same here. I would prefer not having them at all since it is giving WP:UNDUE weight to WP:RECENT events. But if it has to be anywhere, it should stay on the 2007 pages. GizzaDiscuss  &#169; 10:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone is raking up muck. Create a 2007 page or get of the soapbox. This was discussed and settled. CorleoneSerpicoMontana 10:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Just curious after reading the above comments - had a quick look through the sixteen 2007 pages for the NRL teams and, of those, only one team page (Broncos) has an up-to-date run-on team listed although that isn't yet up-to-date for this weekend. The others are as they were five to six weeks ago for rounds 19 or 20. Considering the push to create the pages to put these tables into, if those who instigated the tables/pages aren't doing the updating, who is expected to do so if the regular season page/club page editors don't want anything to do with them aren't interested? And if the tables/pages aren't updated, what, exactly, is the point of empty season pages such as this, this, this, this, this, this or this. For the record, I have made an attempt to make something of/contribute to the Wests Tigers 2005, 2006 & 2007 pages and while I still think the information could be obtained from elsewhere, I did have fun with the results tables. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 11:19, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Speculation about future starting lineups is unverified original research. I've been rather surprised at the inability of to grasp these policy concerns, and his accusation of "vandalism" when I performed a routine per-policy cleanup to remove the unverified info. I've posted a note about this on WP:ANI, in the meantime I invite all editors to ensure that pages comply with Wikipedia policies.  Dei z  talk 07:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Run-On Teams
After recently finding some info about current and 2008 run-on teams and reverting/redirecting as useless, I note how stubborn some editors (anons so far) are about this. I'm glad to note there is consensus against these updates, if anyone needs pages to be protected or editors warned / blocked for constant readdition of such, please contact me at my talk page. Thanks  Dei z  talk 04:52, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Another great resource
 I've added this to the resources already but I just thought many of you wouldn't know it had been added unless you were told. It has a history of all of the old comps, mainly focussing on Oz and GB but with some on NZ and other nations aswell. Some very useful info for those of us who are doing the historical RL stuff on here. Bongomanrae 15:59, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've also recently come across the website [www.nrlstats.com]. Whilst I'm pretty happy with the accuracy of the information there (much seems to correspond with the rleague stats page and since they work for the NRL) I have come across a few minor inaccuracies with the earlier club season summaries. The site may be highly useful in filling in player infoboxes if there is any missing information. Cheers. mdmanser 10:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

One I've been using as well as the others on the list is the Rugby League Project. Not as a stand-alone resource because there are errors but it's easy to find, handy stuff, good for cross-checking player stats, looking for seasons played etc. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 12:00, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Grand Final Collaboration
In an attempt to have one last push in 2007 towards getting another Featured Article (at least good), I propose we start a week-long workathon on a specific Australian rugby league topic which is related to the Grand Final. This would probably be one of the two clubs that make it, or the National Rugby League article itself. This goal is certainly achievable with enough people, the question is, how many of you would totally commit towards such a drive? Let me know your thoughts on this issue - if you're not interested leave a line anyway so the popularity of the idea can be assessed. Thanks all, mdmanser 08:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it would have to be a club, the NRL article would take too much work. (in my opinion). Though I'd love to help, I personally think the Collaboration is dead. I run the collaboration in the other project I participate in WP James Bond. (You can see my work here). If you do have a collaboration please notify on this page. I'd be glad to help.  SpecialWindler   talk   (currently )  08:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Not for me. Apart from being away the next month my focus at the moment is to go behind SpecialWindler and Florrie and expand the SoO player stubs you're creating; maybe write some copy about each year's SoO series; & get back tof inish all those GF Reports that still have bits outstanding. -Sticks66 13:59, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Apropos the comment about collaboration being dead has anyone else noticed that the # of RL contributors generally has diminished lately ? Seems like some contributors have gone away and the new ones aren't hanging around. Please don't take offence Joel but is there any possibility that all the wonderful work you have done in creating the ProjectPages for RL and for RL/SoO has scared contributors off ? Perhaps they think there are too many rules, templates and guidelines ? Perhaps they don't feel free to just get stuck in and write an article. Interested in the thoughts of those of us still contributing . -Sticks66 13:59, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That's why I made semi-active, not because contributors are not hanging around, is because they are free to do what they want. Most of the users that didn't respond to that "roll call" we had some time back, had left Wikipedia all together. I do hope that I'm not scaring contributors off, but rugby league (unfortenely) isn't the most popular sport in the world. I don't mind what I'm doing, but if others feel the need to question my doings, I'm more than happy to answer them and perhaps change my ways. As for creating WP:SOO (the State of Origin task force), while it is taking time, it will be a success, why. Because all those articles won't be created without it.  SpecialWindler   talk   (currently )  20:57, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * What ? Are you saying that not everyone thinks its the Greatest Game of All ??? I do appreciate all the rigour and discipline that you have brought to the project. But sometimes it feels that we are a dwindling crew. I guess we are -Sticks66 12:51, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Me, personally, I think it is but, rugby league isn't the most popular sport in Australia. It probably is the most popular sport in NSW and QLD, but thats it. Anyway, we don't have an overall goal for this project its just "quality and scope of rugby league on Wikipedia".  SpecialWindler   talk   (currently )  21:36, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Great idea but as my research time is pretty much restricted, I'm more inclined to try and see through the SOO project at the moment. Maybe we could gear up for a pre-2008 season project in a few months? ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 23:34, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Bradford Bulls 2007
This article needs a complete rewrite. To begin with, the first sentence needs to explain what the Bradford Bulls are. Then secondly, it needs to be rewritten to be an encyclopedia article, not a newspaper report. Corvus cornix 21:09, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

2007 NRL Grand Final
Is a separate page for the 2007 Grand Final necessary? I must say I prefer the current format with the Grand Final added to the season page as with National Rugby League season 2006 et al. Do we request a speedy delete or go with it? For the moment I've removed the wikilink to the new page from the 2007 table. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 04:29, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If some non-regular editors want to have a go and make a Grand Final page then that's fine by me (see 2006 AFL Grand Final). If it does not reach that standard a few days after the Grand Final (and I'm sure it won't) then there's no reason for that page to exist separately and hence it will become an easy merge. I don't mind if you unwikilink it though - if the creator is serious about the page then he/she will revert it back. If not then we know it is a speedy delete. mdmanser 04:34, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I would like to see a summary including team lists, similar to the other articles (like 2006), on the National Rugby League season 2007 page. If the article does survive, then it must be thourugly detailed (in my opinion), if it dosen't survive, then a speedy delete isn't necassary, just redirect to the National Rugby League season 2007.  SpecialWindler   talk   (currently )  05:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Besides, the creator hasn't done his research/homework. It states that it is the 100th grand final. I do seem to know there were a few grand finals not played in the 30s and around then. etc.  SpecialWindler   talk   (currently )  05:23, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I've added the team list table to the 2007 season page. If anyone fancies writing a brief match summary....? ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 08:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Amco Cup
I'm just wondering how to integrate this comp into the templates, was it a NSWRL comp or an ARL comp? Someone's gone to a lot of work as all of the season's have their own page and it'd be a shame to let it stay out of sight imo Bongomanrae 15:12, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah fair point. Look I had a look over at The Vault and the competition gets listed under "Sydney competitions". It states that Cronulla-Sutherland came up with the idea so I'm assuming that it was organised by the NSWRL. Take note that in 1985 only the Sydney clubs, Brisbane combined and Auckland took part, which sends pretty song signals out that it was under the NSWRL's control. mdmanser 15:49, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Cheers. Bongomanrae 18:11, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Historical Photos
A fantastic site that all of you may want to check out is Picture Australia. Run by the National Library of Australia, it allows you to search a plethora of historical photos, most of which have come out of copyright and are free to upload to Wikipedia (with the exception of listing the source under the upload details). There are heaps that we may use for the early NRL season articles and a few floating around of players. Also out of interest do a search under the suburb/area you live. You'll find some photos dating way back into the 19th century. I've found it amazing how much the city has changed even in the last 50 years. Have fun. mdmanser 17:37, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Question about a player's name
Jonas Abraham or Abraham Jonas? Which is correct? I did a search on google and couldn't figure it out. RobJ1981 05:12, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Abraham Jonas. He's mentioned in the Rooster's 100 Years pages. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 05:34, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * http://www.nrlstats.com/origin/clubs.cfm?ClubID=14&ClubSeasonID=520
 * http://www.sydneyroosters.com.au/100years/player_list.php ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 05:37, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply, I did the redirect and removed the merge tags. RobJ1981 08:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Grand Final Scoreboards
I am strongly against these being introduced - they are not needed to summarise information which was already available on the page both in the table and in the footer of the Grand Final subsection. Wikipedia policy states that tables should only be used when absolutely necessary. Instead of 3 or 4 lines of words summarising the Grand Final, we now have 15 lines in a table. mdmanser 06:25, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't like these particular tables either. I merged the two tables placed on the page earlier today in an effort to improve aesthetics (one results table rather than two clunky tables) but I'm not at all averse to seeing it deleted totally from the season page and adhering to the format of previous seasons. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 07:24, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what tables you are refering to. Are they the team line ups? What articles is Florrie refering to. Sorry for my ... umm dumbness.  SpecialWindler   talk   (currently )  09:42, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Check out the 2005, 2006 and 2007 articles. In the Grand Final sections there seems to be a new scoreboard system. That is what is in question. They are still present at the time of writing for this message but don't be alarmed if you don't see them there sometime soon if someone reverts them before me. mdmanser 11:37, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed the 2005 one as I put it in (on the basis of getting in before someone put the yichier ones up). ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 13:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, OK. I see, yes they are not really good. We have rugbyleaguebox anyway. But even thats not necessary.  SpecialWindler   talk   (currently )  21:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Further redundant tables
On a similar subject, thoughts on the addition of 'matches played' and 'point scoring summary' tables being added to player pages such as here and here when the information should be displayed in the info box? ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 07:45, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I was unaware that articles have been recieving this info in recent time. They arne't necessary. They were originally standanised as correct, back when Rugby league articles were first getting created and no template existed. Now they are mainly on some of the older articles which are stubs and/or have infoboxes. If a person is continuing to make these, then a note should be left on their talk page. Technically they arne't doing anything wrong, but it's the same as Jeff79 changing all the birth of dates (see here), while not any harm is done it is against Manual of Style.  SpecialWindler   talk   (currently )  09:40, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Many of the points summaries would have been around for a while, I am sure, but I know I saw one placed on a players's entry only recently, just can't recall now who it was. So, if the tables are out of date, and the info-boxes are up to date, there won't be many screams if I remove them when I come across them? ~  Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 13:11, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Player Caps
For Australia, representatives are given caps (for example, is here ... Australia see here, Qld here. There is also Nsw, but I can't find a source.)

And some clubs have caps (not all), and I presume other international teams do to.

Now I think it is worthy info for the infobox (Infobox rugby league biography), but have unable to figure out where to place on the infobox. Here are some of my suggestions:


 * In a new line for "Club Information" (though that would make a longer table)
 * In brackets the team behind it (in "Club career" or "Rep career")
 * In the "Other information" section (again would add more lines)

 SpecialWindler    talk   (currently )  12:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

These aren't "Caps" as such which refers to the number of times a player has represented. Rather it is his unique rep player number so Carl Webb is the 124th ever Maroon (and what a boofhead he must be to have tatoo'd that on his neck). I expect it will be hard to find this information for club careers other than for clubs like the Roosters & Brisbane for whom this information is diligently updated on sites or on Wiki. For some clubs like the Panthers and the Eels there seems to me to be bugger-all Player History inf available on the net. But I'm all for recording it for Aust and State representative detail as per your 2nd dot point suggestion. Rgds -Sticks66 13:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, the only clubs that have released them are the Sydney Roosters (first to do so), Bulldogs, Gold Coast Titans (done on Wikipedia) and the Brisbane Broncos (I'll take your word Sticks). Canberra has a list of players on their site but listed alphabetically. I am currently in the process of doing this for the Melbourne Storm on an excel file using the www.nrlstats.com website (the Storm are the only club with which I am able to do this). Expect it to see come up as a list on here within the next month or so. As for the other clubs I guess we'll just have to wait and hope that the clubs do it themselves. I agree with adding a cap number to the infobox as well - I'll have a think about where too. mdmanser 14:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Any more ideas?  SpecialWindler    talk   (currently )  11:04, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


 * On second thoughts maybe we're better off waiting until we get a few more sources which present caps in a list. If we put it into an infobox there will be very few cases where we will be able to complete every single team with a cap next to it. Maybe one of our own tasks first can be to create (featured) lists listing out caps. mdmanser 13:10, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Australia national rugby league team
Guys, what should we do about this section of Australia national rugby league team which also has an oversized box at the bottom with the same detail. Firstly the players seem to be from the Anzac Test to me since Bailey and King and Tupou and others didn't play last Saturday. Someone's gone to a lot of trouble to include heights, weights, postions and clubs for a team who will be out of date when the next squad is selected (these ones already are). I'm all for including a list of the Current Squad as we do in the club articles but I think such should be 1) Just a list of their names (they all have their own articles anyway it would seem) and 2) subrogated below Captains and Other Notables who (call me old fashioned) have earned a right to higher place in the articles than the current guys. What do we think? - Sticks66 09:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


 * May I suggest this template which is used on numerous club pages for Current/Best of Teams


 * Rugby league squad start, Rugby league squad player and Rugby league squad mid and Rugby league squad end.


 * See it in use here.  SpecialWindler    talk   (currently )  11:04, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Current Collaboration
DO we think it's time to remove the leading line in our Project Page that says that the Parramatta Eels is the current collaboration opf the fortnight ? I think so. -Sticks66 09:46, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, the collaboration is dead. No one participates, so it's pointless.  SpecialWindler    talk   (currently )  11:00, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Date format in info-box
User User:Skyring has begun to edit dobs in RL info-boxes, see here. Is there a way to present the date in d/m/y that will satisfy those who cannot read m/d/y without losing the 'age' feature? ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 01:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I point out that most Wikipedia users do not have accounts, and thus do not have preferred date format set. They see dates in the raw format, and presenting dates in American Dating format is inappropriate unless there is a strong US connection. --Pete 01:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * How raw is raw? I logged out and was still able to read the date in text format - 15 April, 1980 not 15/4/80. Until a fix can be found, can the info-box be left alone, please? I have trouble understanding how April 15 is harder to read/comprehend than 15 April. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 01:44, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a matter of putting the date in the correct format for the article. Read the discussion at WP:DATE, please. --Pete 01:50, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I am familiar with the MOS, and I would point out to you the disclaimer at the top of the page. However, it is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception. Your date edits to the article itself are not in question (by me, at any rate) but I am requesting that you leave the template as it is for the present until a fix can be found. If it is as simple as adding/removing something to/from the existing template and you have removed the code by changing the date format on multiple RL pages, you could make editing/updating more time consuming. I am simply asking for common sense for the one instance of the date in the whole article. If the reader has some confusion over April 15 in the info-box, the d/m/y format is referenced in the first line of the introduction. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 02:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You can use the birth date and age template and have the day first default. In the Willie Mason example use April 15, 1980 (df is for "day first"). -- PatLeahy (talk) 02:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for the information! ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 02:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I thank User:Florrie for brining this to discussion, which has resulted in a solution, as opposed to the edit warring that had previously occurred without discussion.-- Lester  17:26, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No thanks to me, the solution was always there - I'd just not paid attention to it because I don't particularly care whether someone writes April 15 or 15 April! Still don't, but if it keeps the peace and keeps me out of other people's games... 02:04, 28 October 2007 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Florrie (talk • contribs)

Questions on Notability and Categories

 * I've read through the previous discussion on notability but it doesn't really answer my question: If a NRL player moves permanently to a lower tier club - like a feeder club for the NRL or a level 2 club like the Celtic Crusaders in ESL - do we still maintain their stats in the info-box? The info-box does say 'first grade only' but does that matter if an individual wants to keep the records up to date? We don't include that level of club participation before a player hits the NRL or ESL but does the fact that they are notable and then are relegated make it more relevant?
 * My personal preference would be to leave the non-first-grade stats out of the infobox but make mention of the team in the text.
 * The infobox stats are for "first grade" games only. So for instance, David Peachey's stats do not include in his lower grade games for North Sydney where he played out his career at the end of the 2007 season. However, there is no harm, in fact I encourage, to include non-first-grade stats in the body of the article, especially of a once prominent first grade player. Cheers -- Ianblair23 (talk) 22:33, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I find knowing which overseas clubs' are considered 'first-grade' confusing. If the Celtic Crusaders, for example, are in the second-tier, they aren't a first-grade team? Is there a reference somewhere which lists first-grade teams world-wide? ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 22:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * On categories - If a player is born in Australia but plays for New Zealand (or Tonga etc) are they included in both the Australian rugby league players category and the New Zealand rugby league players (or Tongan, USA etc etc)? Or should it only be one and which should it be? By country of birth or by country played for? Clint Newton has both American and Australian categories but Taniela Tuiaki is only under Tongan, not New Zealand or Australian. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 14:44, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've always categorised players by where they were born unless they have played representational rugby. Then I use the nationality of whichever team they played for.GordyB 15:09, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I'll stick to adding a category for both/all at the moment. I can't imagine finding Clint Newton in only American league players and not Australian. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 22:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Winger disambiguation
I'm unconvinced that most people searching for "Winger" mean the band, and the "what links here" for that page seems to agree with me. The hatnotes are good, but it seems to contravene guideline. Please contribute to the discussion at Talk:Winger. PS I was shocked to find there was no article on Abi Ekoku. Please bring your expertise to bear on the stub I created. --Dweller 10:44, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

State of Origin articles
I can't get my head around the fact that every year's state of origin series' article has the words "Rugby League" included in the title. Does anyone else have a problem with this?--Jeff79 07:22, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No, no problem. While the extra words in the article title may be redundant to us, there are other State of Origin series in various sports... apparently. Over here "State of Origin" means some on-again, off-again Aussie Rules series. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 08:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Read what I have already said about that here.--Jeff79 08:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd have no problem if you moved the yearly articles. From what I understand the AFL lot never had a true series, they only had one-off games and it's been canceled for years now. There'd be no confusion about what an article called State of Origin 2007 (or whatever) would be about. Bongomanrae 05:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Well Jeff, where have you been. We could do with your help in the SoO Taskforce. But as to the "Rugby League" header, I have no problem with it the way it is and couldn't bear it if that whole discussion from May that you refer to were to open up again. Welcome back. -Sticks66 13:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm with bongo. And I really wish that debate would be re-opened. The way it is now is just wrong in my opinion.--Jeff79 15:49, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Harvey Norman SoO
I think it was 1998 that it first became the Harvey Norman SoO and have seen shots of both Blues and Maroons wearing that logo on their shorts that year. Can anyone confirm or disagree ? Prior to that I think it was the Coca-Cola SoO in 1997 and the Tooheys SoO series from 1994 or whenever Winfield pulled out. Any views ? -Sticks66 14:51, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Only to say that Winfield didn't pull out, they were kicked out because they are a tobacco company.Garrie 04:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Rugby League forums?
I'm just wondering how many largish forums are dedicated to RL. It might help if we ever need some specific info we can just check out, say, a couple of French RL forums for info about the French national team and comps. Would we be able to start up a sub-page of the WikiProject for this and link to it on the main page? Bongomanrae 17:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know about France, but in the UK the main two are Totalrl and RL fans.GordyB 17:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Strangely enough I knew about those sites and was looking for something else altogether when I came across RugbyLeague.org which is bigger than TRL. It's got me wondering how many more big RL forums are out there that I don't know about. Bongomanrae 18:28, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I find a few of the club/supporters sites really useful. The Sharks' Sharks Forever supporters forum has a great archive of photos, newspaper clippings etc and the Bulldogs' The Kennel is good. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 22:14, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I set up a simple page here (RL Forums) with a couple of links. Feel free to add to it and if we get enough forums I guess we can add it to the wikiproject somehow. Bongomanrae 18:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay we've got a fair few forums on the list now, should I make a sub-page on the WP:RL and copy them there? Bongomanrae (talk) 12:39, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Doping category
Has anyone else noticed this? Category:Australian sportspeople in doping cases So far Mitchell Sargent and Wendell Sailor have been categorised. Sargent is also in this one Category:Doping cases in rugby league - in fact he is the only one so far. A See Also has been added to each article page. That's a mention in the article, a category link and a See Also! I'm all for disclosure but this makes me uncomfortable. ~ Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 22:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Hollywood an' Zorba
OK all, I've made stubs on these two. Expand away...cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:27, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone's put a PROD tag on Hartley, so anyone got some book refs? cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:49, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I've added a note to the talk page and removed the prod tag. While it's great to see some articles started on prominent refs, it might be helpful to research the subjkect a little before starting it to avoid prods. One of the other guys may have time but I don't have much to spare the moment to do anything with the articles for Greg Hartley or Peter Peters (Christmas and all) but you'll probably find some reasonable sources on the net if you check the links on the project page or google. You'll need to consider WP:BLP if you are going to go into Hartley's problems with counting etc. I've tacked the Whiticker and Hudson ref on to Talk:Greg Hartley if you want to use that. Cheers and merry Christmas! ~  Florrie  &bull;  talk  &bull; 05:06, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Rugby league in England
I've put this up for Featured Article status. You can comment here.

GordyB (talk) 18:47, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Rugby league
WikiProject Rugby league doesn't nest correctly. See Talk:Players who have converted from one football code to another as an example.--Bob (talk) 21:22, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I fixed it. --Bob (talk) 23:27, 26 December 2007 (UTC)