Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league/Archive 5

Talk pages galore
This project has too many talk pages. I don't know where I should go. There really only needs to be this one I think.--Jeff79 (talk) 07:37, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * What do you mean?    The Windler      talk   09:32, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

100 Years of Rugby League - Whiticker and Collis
Has anyone seen 100 Years of Australian Rugby League by Alan Whiticker & Ian Collis? I'm tempted to order it/them anyway, but curious if anyone has seen it/them to give an opinion. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 05:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Football (soccer) to Association football
Hi, Just thought you would like to know "Football (soccer)" is now referred to as "Association football". Consensus reached on Talk:Association football. InsteadOf (talk) 10:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * And this affects a WikiProject about rugby league, Why?  SpecialWindler    talk  10:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup, please
Could somebody please go clean up the zillions of Rugby league articles with bad units and dates, not in accordance with general principles and in particular, not in accordance with Manual of Style (dates and numbers).

The problems include infoboxes with information commonly seen in this format:


 * Height 	5 ft 10 ins (1.79 m)
 * Weight 	12 st 6 lbs (79 Kg)


 * Unit symbols remain unchanged in the plural. No "ins" and no "lbs"
 * The only acceptable symbol for kilograms is "kg". An uppercase K is totally wrong.

At a minimum for acceptability, it should be
 * Height 	5 ft 10 in (1.79 m)
 * Weight 	12 st 6 lb (79 kg)

The universal kilograms make this marginally acceptable. Since the stone as a unit of mass is unfamiliar to most people around the world, an additional "174 lb" in this example might be helpful.

The other problem includes the improperly formatted dates, especially birth dates in the introduction of the text, such as:


 * " born 8th November, 1980 in ... " which appears as
 * "born 8th November, 1980 in ..." (not affected by preferences settings)

This format is unacceptable according to the MoS. It doesn't allow formatting of the dates in accordance with the user preferences settings. It should be


 * " born 8 November 1980 in ... " which appears as
 * "born 8 November 1980 in ..." (will vary with preferences settings or no preferences)

I have corrected quite a few of these, but this appears to be a systemic problem with hundreds of them still remaining. Gene Nygaard (talk) 23:19, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

If you are that deeply offended by that I suggest you do it yourself, I can't imagine you getting anyone to join you in such in inane task. Please do it yourself and keep it to yourself. CorleoneSerpicoMontana (talk) 01:26, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The inches and pounds are correctly pluralised to ins and lbs, this is not a mistake.GordyB (talk) 03:17, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No, they are not. That is specifically contrary to our Manual of Style rules, "Do not append an s for the plurals of unit symbols (kg, km, in, lb, not kgs, kms, ins, lbs)."


 * Units of measure should never be changed in the plural. While not everyone follows that sensible rule, a good number of authorities outside Wikipedia do as we do. Fortunately, we have strong consensus for this on Wikipedia and a reasonably consistent and well-followed standard. They need to be correct to comply with our standards.  Gene Nygaard (talk) 03:45, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I do not care what rule Wikipedia has adopted, lb is always pluralised to "lbs" in the UK and I regard 6 lb with no -s as being wrong.GordyB (talk) 03:52, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Sure Gene, what an exciting and compelling task. And such a warm and inspirational call to action too. You can be sure it will be my number one WP:RL priority in 2008.-Sticks66 (talk) 11:09, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

And Merry Christmas to you all... bah...humbug... &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 13:36, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hang on a minute, Gene, before you go and change all st lb to the awful US lb, can we talk about it? Otherwise I'll be following along behind you putting it all back to st lb - it's certainly the lesser of two evils, imo. And these are Australian players you are changing to a US format! &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 13:51, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Good point, I don't know about Australia but we never do weight in terms of lbs alone in the UK.GordyB (talk) 13:57, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The changing of SL & NRL players to a US format is bizarre. I'm not sure about the pluralisation of lbs and ins in Aus, but it has certainly been the system used in the UK. Londo06 (talk) 14:29, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * And while we are all having a whinge (must be the post-Christmas sugar withdrawal), I find it equally bizzare to see metric height recorded in metres. I've never seen height recorded here in anything other than centimetres! And that's in sport, health, police, defence, blah, blah etc. bah...humbug... &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 15:05, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * for metric uses; cm in the norm in Aus, m is norm in the uk. Londo06 (talk) 16:42, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

(outdented) st lb should not be changed to only lb. However, here in the U.S. and Canada, we use neither the bizarre stones nor the awful kilos for weight, so a reference to lb is needed. I would suggest using convert to insure proper formating (i.e. 'in' not 'ins', 'kg' not 'Kg') and correct conversions. Like anything, convert can be used incorrectly, especially in the area of precision.

An example using a person that is 5-foot 11-inches tall:

5 ft produces 5 ft

However, because metres are the default measurement (yes it can be changed to cm), if the precision is set to "0" then the conversion will be inaccurate (at 2 m): 5 ft produces 5 ft. So be careful about what the precision should be.

Likewise, for a person that is 13 stone 7 pounds (if I even said that correctly; stone or stones?): 13 st to produce 13 st

Again, changing the precision to 2 would make the default converted units lb kg be overly accurate: 13 st to produce 13 st

If used properly, with a little common sense, this will help insure proper formatting per the MOS and correct conversions. Here are some examples I did today: 1, 2, 3. If you have any questions about using convert, just ask on its talk page; questions are normally answered there pretty quickly. Regards, &mdash;MJCdetroit (talk) 04:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * lbs alone seem highly inappropriate to measure a persons weight for an Australian or an English person. It has been removed. I have no problem if someone wants to go against the British system when we pluralise lbs, but to add in the US system seems unwarranted. CorleoneSerpicoMontana (talk) 08:51, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No, what is inappropriate was for you to remove conversions. This is clearly stated in the MOS and removal of them goes against the MOS!  As demonstrated above, pounds were not alone.  They were in the parenthesis along with kg.  In no way was the ability for an Australian, an Englishman or wherever else they use stones to weight themselves affected in anyway.  Stones were/are the main units of measurement and there shouldn't be any problem expanding understanding to Canadians and Americans by including pounds in parenthesis. &mdash;MJCdetroit (talk) 14:06, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Gone through and removed lbs after they have been put back on. The US sports players do not have a multitude of weight units. Problem fixed. Londo06 (talk) 14:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No relevance whatsoever. Those US sports players don't have any weight units foreign to and ununderstood in the UK or Australia or anywehre else.  Gene Nygaard (talk) 02:17, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Gone through and removed the addition of stand alone lbs.CorleoneSerpicoMontana (talk) 03:00, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Looked through a load of places and indeed as I thought the weight is meant to be pluralised in the UK. Saw it all across Sky Sports, also Tom Palmer, Chris Melling, Paul Hodgson amongst many, many others as examples. Londo06 (talk) 14:00, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * We have always pluralised lbs in the UK. There are still loads of stand alone lbs out there as a bot overwrote loads of bios. CorleoneSerpicoMontana (talk) 01:14, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Best take it up over at Template talk:Convert &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 14:40, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like this Gene still wants to go through articles and tell British people that they are wrong about their own systems and measurements. Looks like it will have to be escalated. Londo06 (talk) 18:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * So did you take your concerns to Template talk:Convert as suggested earlier? Escalate over there if you feel the need and leave the Australian articles alone. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 21:57, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Which is particularly insane because Wikipedia policy is that British English is to be used on British specific subjects (and obviously Aussie English on Aussie subject matter).GordyB (talk) 21:19, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * In which case the measurements used on Australian articles for Australian players don't need to be edited to add an 's' back in as they are being now. If it's a British concern, keep to the British players, please. I've spent a lot of time complying with the MOS and using the undefined undefined template (now that it is fixed) for Australian players. I don 't want to see Londo06 (et al) muck it up because he has an issue with Gene. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 21:57, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with the Aussie measurements not having the s on the end, its lucky there is a working converter that allows the display of the right figures, if not the proper display of the units. It is a little annoying though, it would be like the Australian players all having to in m, just because 1 person has set the MOS for the world of America.Londo06 (talk) 16:25, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * This odious character is back at it. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 18:54, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Herbie Collins - a request
Hi, I am working on an article on Herbie Collins, the former Australian Test captain. In the article it mentions that he played in Easts' 1911 premiership winning team, next to Dally Messenger. There is a book listed at the bottom of the article - (Whiticker, Alan & Hudson, Glen (2000). The Encyclopedia Of Rugby League Players. NSW.ISBN 1-877082-02-3) that I assume that information comes from but I can't cite to the page as I would like. Has anyone got a copy of the book and could supply me a page number or even better, a scanned copy of the page(s) or let me know of an alternative online source with the same information. Any help you can supply at all will be appreciated. -- Mattinbgn\talk 01:32, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Matt - it's on page 95 of the 2007 edition. If I can get my scanner to work I'll email you a copy of the page. Though there isn't much more than the team and dates and that he went on to be an Australian cricket captain. Four lines in all. (ETA) I'll quote it here for you:
 * COLLINS, Herb (Easts 1911) 4 games (0) points. Future Australian cricket captain (1924 Ashes series win) played for Easts in the 1911 final victory over Glebe.
 * That's it. On the Eastern Suburbs 1911 Season page you'll find a report of the final which has been taken from Steve Hadden's History of the NSW Rugby League Finals, but I don't know any details about the book. You'll find Herb Collins on the 100 Years list at Sydney Roosters. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 02:06, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Florrie. Thanks for the quick response. If that's all in the book then don't go out of your way to scan it for me. Cheers, Mattinbgn\talk 02:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

vandalism
Letting you people know that 58.108.247.167 has recently changed many rugby league players, to have the category Category:German Australians in the category. I'm busy at the moment, but just letting people know. They could be german, but I doubt it.  SpecialWindler    talk  01:25, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * yes, saw and reverted a few of those. And they have the same players listed at Rugby league in Germany as Famous German Rugby League Players! All this German Australian, Greek Australian, whatever Australian seems very trite to me unless the player identifies with a particular heritage in order to play international league. I left a note on the talk page over there as well as on the isp's talk page. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 12:44, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Article for deletion & notability
I put up a speedy on Mark Offerdahl yesterday but it was declined. The reason given was that the article is about a 'professional athlete' and if he plays for an NRL club he must be notable. Unfortunately the article was misleading, saying he plays for Manly but he hasn't yet played one first-grade game despite being on the available player list for two years. The admin who declined feels that non-notablity isn't obvious and has referred the article to AfD where it has to sit for five days and can be contested. If this article is contested and succeeds, it means every Jersey Flegg/Toyota Cup non-first-grade player can have their own article and contest any speedy. Personally, I think there is more than enough to do getting first-grade player articles up to scratch.

I'd really like to get some proper guidelines for notability (in all countries) drawn up so that we can at least refer admins to that in future. If no-one objects, I'll write up a draft and put it up for additions/comments/tweaking at the weekend on a project discussion page. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 09:04, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


 * On the other hand, if no-one is concerned, I won't waste my time. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 22:03, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry for being rude, but I don't object. A prod was put on lower grade Broncos player Rodney Davies And I agree.  SpecialWindler    talk   —Preceding comment was added at 23:17, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Apologies for the bad mood, Joel. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 04:52, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Support the idea of a draft criteria and value your work hugely. You may want to wait till the outcome of the Mark Offerdahl thing (will there be a concluded outcome ?) as it seems like the AfD discussion has generated a fair bit of dialogue. -Sticks66 (talk) 03:21, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Mark Offerdahl, Rodney Davies et al are all hugely notable, don't you know? ;) But yes, you are right, best wait and see. No point wasting more breath. I think an AfD is open for five days before a decision is made. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 04:52, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Super League team navboxes
Some of them have already moved inline with the soccer templates to basically become automatically collapsible. The Super Leagues are currently set open and at a set width. Wondering if there was a interest in creating a standard. I haven't included NRL in this as the current NRL one is set to full width, full names and obviously doesn't carry squad no's. Londo  06  18:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * After looking through some Brisbane player pages the navbox question could also be opened up for NRL naboxes, ie fix width to sports standard and have surnames only. Just putting it out there. Londo  06  09:29, 02 February 2008 (UTC)

Template:Infobox rugby league biography
There is a discussion here about this template. Londo 06  10:27, 02 February 2008 (UTC)

List of Melbourne Storm players - FLC
Just a notice to everyone interested that I have nominated List of Melbourne Storm players to be promoted to featured list status. mdmanser (talk) 06:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Mark Gasnier
Some fool is adding "Fire Up Bitch Man" and various other versions to Mark Gasnier's infobox for nicknames. Anyone care to revert? I've already done it twice, don't want to get into 3RR. Unless Gaz actually answers to it. I hope he'd rather forget it ever happened. Bit offensive in the context it was used, regardless of Roy and HG. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 08:59, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The 3RR dosen't apply to vandalism. Which it obviousoly vandalism.  SpecialWindler    talk  09:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Cheers. Thought it might sneak past on not-vandalism given Roy and HG's refs. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 11:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

National Rugby League (only) records
Please read/add to discussion here.--Jeff79 (talk) 02:14, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

List of Melbourne Storm players - FLC
Just a notice to everyone interested that I have nominated List of Melbourne Storm players to be promoted to featured list status. mdmanser (talk) 06:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

National Rugby League (only) records
Please read/add to discussion here.--Jeff79 (talk) 02:14, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Mark Gasnier
Some fool is adding "Fire Up Bitch Man" and various other versions to Mark Gasnier's infobox for nicknames. Anyone care to revert? I've already done it twice, don't want to get into 3RR. Unless Gaz actually answers to it. I hope he'd rather forget it ever happened. Bit offensive in the context it was used, regardless of Roy and HG. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 08:59, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The 3RR dosen't apply to vandalism. Which it obviousoly vandalism.  SpecialWindler    talk  09:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Cheers. Thought it might sneak past on not-vandalism given Roy and HG's refs. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 11:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Category: Rugby
There is a discussion here on the proposed name change of the category. Londo 06  11:39, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Navboxes for top points and try scorers
This afternoon, I made the two following navboxes and linked them on the appropriate pages: I'm just making a note here for anybody who is interested. I think we should make an effort to bring more into the project if others think they are useful. mdmanser (talk) 10:35, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Template:National Rugby League top points scorers
 * Template:National Rugby League top try scorers


 * Brilliant. This gives an assertion that all of these players are thus notables and the box is a great tool from which to start articles. I'm scratching my head to remember Joel Caine but who could forget Steve Linnane, the Dragon's eye-gouger.- Sticks  66  13:41, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Joel was a Tiger! And something else. Maybe a Shark? But I remember him as a Tiger. I'll add him to my to do list. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 13:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it's really good and worthwhile work too. But I just wonder if a simple succession box linking to the year before and after wouldn't be less cumbersome than an the entire (and ever-growing) list. Seems a bit much in relation to some of the articles' body text. Just a thought.--Jeff79 (talk) 16:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Can these templates be defaulted to 'hide'? &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 16:18, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Yep Florrie, I just set them to be collapsed as default on pages with just one navbox (they autocollapse with two or more generally). I managed to learn something new in the process as well.
 * Jeff, I hear your concern and I have shared them similarly in the past over the navbox issue. That said, they are beneficial in place of succession boxes in instances where one individual manages to make the list more than once. For example, if succession boxes were put on Dally Messenger's page, it would end up taking more room than an expanded navbox; at the same time showing less information. It is certainly a topic we should discuss as a project more as well. mdmanser (talk) 17:09, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That's great, many thanks! &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 17:20, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Good point.--Jeff79 (talk) 17:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

On the 2007 season page (section Dally M Awards) it says that Israel Folau and Matt Bowen tied as top tryscorers. NavBox only shows Bowen. Which is right ? - Sticks  66  12:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * According to the 100 Years as well as the NRL.com stats, it is Matt Bowen with 22. According to Israel Folau's profile at Melbourne Storm, he scored 21 tries. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 00:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Found the problem. There's the Dally M top try-scorer and then there's the top try-scorer for the season. Both had 21 at the end of round 25 but only Bowen scored a try during the finals. So the Dally-M record is correct, and the nav-box is correct to show Bowen as top try-scorer for the season. That could probably be explained somewhere in the Dally M article, it's for the regular season. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 00:55, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thx. I've now clarified this with some words in the article. - Sticks  66  02:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Navboxes for Teams
I'm currently going through and making them. I've made a new template (Template:Navbox rugby league squad) which can only be used, for the moment, for premiership-winning teams. Once I figure out how, I'll modify it so it can be used for international team squads and current team squads as I've noticed that they are both already featured around Wikipedia. So far, here is what we have, for example: I've also noticed that SpecialWindler has already made boxes for the six Broncos-winning teams - we'll somehow figure out how to integrate the two styles in due course. What do people think of the current ones? mdmanser (talk) 02:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Rugby league/Navboxes

(ec):Lovely! I've been wanting the 2003 and 2005 navboxes for a while Shall go and add them now, cheers. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 02:59, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Just noticed Skando is falling off the edge of the Tigers' infobox. How is that fixed? &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 03:00, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not entirely sure what you mean with Skandalis. How big is your browser window and what browser are you using just out of interest as well? mdmanser (talk) 03:08, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm on my laptop, 1280 x 800 with Mozilla. I'll check shortly on my desk-top. That's a biggie. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 03:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The big screen didn't make any difference so I opened it in an IE tab (while chewing garlic). In IE, the first line breaks at Robbie Farah and Skando is the first name of the second line. In Mozilla, Skando is the last name on the first line and he spills over the box outline. The same applies for the Roosters (Adie falls off the edge) and the Panthers (where Joe falls off). &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 03:55, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah I've got the same problem. Looks like the names just aren't wrapping correctly. Bongomanrae (talk) 05:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

You may want to ask Village pump (technical).  SpecialWindler    talk  06:03, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Is there a protocol for navboxes? Most recent (ie, 2008 team above 2003 grand final team) first or chronological order? &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 07:57, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd have them in chronological order, as the football project have done it (see Ronaldo). When the time comes for current club boxes to come in, I think we should have them listed under any premiership-winning teams. As for international squads when they become more common, I suggest we list them above all club boxes. mdmanser (talk) 08:13, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * They should be in chronolgical order, I will soon nominate for speedy deletion of Brisbane Broncos Premiership. But with Brisbane Broncos Current (below) should it become the same width etc. You cant use (Template:Navbox rugby league squad) for it because they have no numbers?  SpecialWindler    talk  08:55, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Also with the premiership teams templates I would like to see at least one image used (like used in the above template).  SpecialWindler    talk  08:55, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Just my two cents: I don't see any need for images like those. Not a fan. Good work on all those boxes though guys.--Jeff79 (talk) 13:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Do we have agreement on which articles these Boxes ought appear on ? On each named Player's article ? On each club history article ? On club-specific season articles (where they exist) ? Presumably not on the general season articles where the team line-ups are already listed ? - Sticks  66  22:11, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's mainly the players and coaches on the template: nothing more.  SpecialWindler    talk  07:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I thought the rule with navboxes like this is that they only appear on pages that they contain links to. That's to say, whenever you see the navbox in an article, some link contained in it should be black (unlinkable), i.e. the link for the article being viewd.--Jeff79 (talk) 09:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

With the help of some ingenuity from WikiProject Cricket regular User:AMBerry, I've managed to made the template work for national squads:

I must note that all thanks should go to AMBerry. mdmanser (talk) 07:37, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Brilliant. Do the other in between tournament squads still need doing and if not where does one locate them ? - Sticks  66  02:15, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah they certainly do - I found the names for 1957 from the Hunterlink website (see main project page for link). At this stage we should make the boxes for the world cup champions a priority, with other teams put on hold just for now. mdmanser (talk) 10:09, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Records set in (YEAR)
Anyone else think that the content in these newly-added sections on each NRL season article could easily go into the already-existing Season Summary sections which often need more text anyway. I'm certainly for the inclusion of this information but I don't think a whole new section is warranted.--Jeff79 (talk) 07:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Perfect suggestion. They should go straight under "season summary" as a sub-section. mdmanser (talk) 07:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Great idea. Headers should be "Records set in ...." (all but 1st word lower case) and we probably don't need to say "The Tigers set the record ..." each time as all items are records set that year. - Sticks  66  09:50, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd argue that not even a sub-section is necessary. We need body text. People are going overboard with sub-headings.--Jeff79 (talk) 10:15, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I see your point but at this stage I think a sub-header may have to do - I can't think of any other ideas. I would certainly not be a fan of keeping everything under the one "season summary" header though. By the way, should we have "season advertising" before or after "records"? I think records should be the last thing in the section. mdmanser (talk) 10:22, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

A 'Records' sub-section cannot possibly ever amount to more than a few lines. It simply does not need to exist. It's clearly over-enthusiasm. The whole layout of season articles needs to be sorted out. Is 'Grand Final' a subsection of 'Finals' or stand alone, and are 'Finals' and 'Ladder' subsections of Season Summary? I'm against the 'Season Advertising' appearing after the 'Grand Final'. It doesn't make sense chronoligically. Ideally these articles should have some kind of flow.--Jeff79 (talk) 10:36, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * My preferred layout would be:


 * Introduction
 * Season summary
 * Advertising (renamed from "season advertising)
 * Ladder
 * Finals
 * Grand Final
 * Footnotes
 * References
 * External Links
 * Would you suggest any changes to that?

mdmanser (talk) 10:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Seems pretty good. My only suggestion would be for 'Ladder' to be a subsection of 'Season Summary' rather than stand alone. It's just a table. I question whether it needs its own separate heading at all.--Jeff79 (talk) 10:47, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I've never quite been able to get used to seeing 'advertising' in the season summary, but that's my problem. Agree with Jeff that 'Ladder' doesn't really need a header and could be part of the season summary, but I won't lose any sleep over it if it stays the same. Please keep Grand final as a sub-header of finals, simply because there are already so many player articles linked directly to the Grand final section. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 14:22, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You know what, I might agree with Florrie regarding advertising being a subsection of season summary. Now that I think about it, it doesn't really seem to be relevant at all to the season summary. This may mean that it warrants its own section. As for the ladder, I really think we should leave it as it is. The Premier League, NFL and AFL (the 3 competitions I looked up) have the ladder separate and I would have to agree with this. It is a major focal point to any reader looking up a specific season and is therefore a major topic. That's my opinion. mdmanser (talk) 15:10, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The ladder essenially summarises the season, so what better section to have it under than Season Summary? But hey, nevermind logic. The problem with advertising having its own separate section is that it makes it appear more important than the Grand Final which does not (and of all sections, "Grand Final" would be the closest to having its own article, so IMO the most deserving of at least its own section). I know that in some articles the content on advertising dwarfs the content on the actual football and that's unfortunate, but maybe more will be added to those articles. It's also unlikely to happen in future season articles.--Jeff79 (talk) 02:03, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

100 Australian Greatest of 100 Years
This Sat 23Feb the ARL will announce it's list of Australia's 100 greatest players of 100 years. I've created some copy below that can be inserted in the appropriate place on each player's article (under "Accolades" or "Life after football" if article has this section). There is a link to the NRL web page which exists now but which will be populated on Sat and I'll put the hundred names in Articles Requested on the Project Page so they can be ticked off if anyone wants to help. - Sticks  66  02:10, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

'In February 2008 he was named in a list of Australia's 100 greatest ever players (1908-2007) commissioned by the NRL / ARL to celebrate the code's Australian centenary year. 100 Greatest Players


 * Here's the To Be Done List WikiProject Rugby league/Requested articles - Sticks  66

Surely it doesn't need its own article. A sub-section of the (already barren-looking) ARL article would be fine.--Jeff79 (talk) 10:40, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think that link provides the actual top 100 players of all time. Surely there aren't 30+ players from Eastern Suburbs alone from on that list... I think we should wait until Saturday before adding ANY information to player pages regarding this matter. mdmanser (talk) 10:51, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not proposing an article. This is just a To Do List. I'm proposing the fact of the player's inclusion on the list be one sentence within his existing article. And of course I'm proposing it be a list to highlight notable past players who don't have articles. Happy to wait till Sat, but some of the players were listed in today's Telegraph (all 36 of the existing Hall of Famers; the five Raiders I've listed; Lockyer plus the 7 "obscure" players that I've listed at positions 51-57 that were the subject of today's article). Anyway I don't want to be accused of Cyrstal Balling so will wait till Saturday. -  Sticks  66  11:30, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Happy to give a hand. I'll check back at the weekend. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 11:51, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Added article List of Australian rugby league's 100 greatest players. Useful tool as a to-do list as it is in alphabetical order. Could be worked into a Wikiproject Rugby league page rather than an article. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 13:08, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * A to-do list exists here, as Sticks mentioned above. To be updated once the official list comes out tomorrow. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 14:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Any objection to recording these blokes' importance as 'mid' on the WP:RL project banner? 'Low' seems so shabby, even for the I've never heard of them lot, considering the honour. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 12:04, 23 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Seems a good idea considering their importance in the history of the game. I too am shamed to say I have not heard of many of them. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 08:21, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Article name: Rugby League's 100 Greatest Players
Per discussion at Talk:Rugby League's 100 Greatest Players, I have added the discussion here. I believe the article name warrants a discussion. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 08:24, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

mdmanser has suggested Australian Rugby League's 100 Greatest Players I reckon this is a good title for the article. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 08:48, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Australian Schoolboys
Added this article in its limited form, needs a major overhaul to bring it up to standard. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 09:16, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Category:Rugby football
Category:Rugby has been changed to Category:Rugby football but I think that some further realignment of the "rugby" categories is still required.

A discussion regarding the future of this category has just started at Category talk:Rugby football. Those with an opinion please follow the link and contribute.GordyB (talk) 11:35, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Articles nominated for the improvement drive
Nominated a couple of articles here. Henry Paul and Clive Churchill seemed articles that were worthy or warranted a fair bit of attention. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 14:12, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've already bookmarked Clive Churchill for some attention (ie, getting it back to a genuine 'start' class) but if anyone wants to have a bash at it before next weekend, please do! Apparently (going by the history) the bulk of the article was deleted in September as it was a direct lift from RL1908. &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 14:35, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Added my support for Henry Paul but I'm afraid I don't really know much about Clive Churchill, not even knowing who he was until hearing his name in the NRL Grand Final a few years back, so I can't really add much about him to be honest. Londo  06  08:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

NRL Stats
Has anyone heard if the NRL Stats site is being re-vamped? I can't access it from any links today and I have since found this reference on the Stats page at NRL.com. Take a look at the best bits of the soon-to-be-released NRL.com Stats: The site could certainly do with a re-vamp, but I hope all the existing external links on various player articles remain the same! &bull; Florrie &bull; leave a note &bull; 05:08, 3 March 2008 (UTC)


 * You can always try http://archive.org (which archives most sites).  SpecialWindler    talk  05:20, 3 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Try the detailed stats page at http://203.166.101.37/NRL07/index.html . mdmanser (talk) 10:11, 3 March 2008 (UTC)