Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scotland/Archive 12

Request for upgrade of Talwin Morris from Stub status
I've just undertaken a major rewrite and expansion of the page on Art Nouveau designer Talwin Morris. I think it should now no longer be Stub status Duncanchappell (talk) 16:37, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Training event for UK Wikimedians
Wikimedia UK is committed to supporting our volunteers and to encourage them to teach others how to edit Wikipedia, we are running a weekend training workshop that will take place on the weekend of 23–24 February in Newcastle. We would particularly encourage anyone from North East England and Scotland to attend. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 10:59, 11 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The response from the community is that a different location would be easier for volunteers to get to. As such the training session will be held in Manchester on the same dates. If you're still interested please take a look at the event page for further details. I apologise if anyone here had been planning on attending the event but now won't be able to. Please get in touch and help us plan future events! Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 13:49, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Requested move discussion: William Bruce (architect)
Please see: --Mais oui! (talk) 13:32, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Talk:Sir_William_Bruce,_1st_Baronet,_of_Balcaskie

Scottish Banks
I am writing extended histories for many of the banks in Wikipedia and so far these have included three from Scotland: Clydesdale Bank, Commercial Bank of Scotland, and National Bank of Scotland; I am currently looking at British Linen (see talk page).

I am posting this to enquire if anyone takes an overview of the Scottish financial scene, or has any interest in the topic. Bebington (talk) 13:01, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Lesley Fitz-Simons
I have just created a stub about Lesley Fitz-Simons, please feel free to expand it!--ukexpat (talk) 18:08, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedian in Residence: National Library of Scotland
Hi all,

I've just emerged from a very promising meeting with the National Library of Scotland, who are planning to host a Wikimedian in Residence in the near future. They're hoping to recruit for the post in the next few months, aiming for someone who can start in late spring/early summer. If you might be interested in this, please do keep an eye out - we don't have firm dates yet, but we're hoping this will be finalized over the next few weeks.

Please get in touch if you've got any questions, or you'd like me to notify you when there's news! Andrew Gray (talk) 16:57, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Talk:List of tartans
Please advise. Please assist. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:19, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

HD Video Guide to Edinburgh
Hi all, there is a new HD video guide to Edinburgh at: www.edinburghvideoguide.com - Very pretty videos and they're up-to-date (several feature the tramworks on Princes Street and some of the scaffolding at the East End - the old Burger King). The site is obviously new - lots of empty categories... Does anyone have any thoughts about including these videos in Edinburgh-specific pages? Here's the link to the 'Things to See and Do' section of the site so you can judge for yourselves: http://www.edinburghvideoguide.com/video-category/things-to-see-do/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by MuryRaisin (talk • contribs) 19:54, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Undiscovered Scotland
Undiscovered Scotland has been brought into disrepute as a non RS. I have seen this source used in countless articles and seem to be one of the most comprehensive and indeed reliable sources on the web for general topics unless I'm mistaken, request input.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld  18:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm writing a further detailed response to Senna's post at WP:RSN, ideally I feel this discussion should be continued there as it was originally raised there and any WP:Scotland Members are welcome to join in if they have more to add. Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 15:59, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Translation of patronymics
An editor has requested comment at WT:MOS, which may affect the way some biographical articles within the scope of this Wikiproject are styled. The discussion is at WT:MOS. Daicaregos (talk) 11:17, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Keith O'Brien allegations
There's been a flurry of IP editing activity at Keith O'Brien in the wake of the current allegations of inappropriate acts, some at least framed in rather POV terms, some possibly ok but misplaced within the article. I'm not in a position to make further amendments or keep watch for the better part of the day so some eyes on it would be appreciated. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

File:John Murdoch, LL.D.jpg
File:John Murdoch, LL.D.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:32, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

List of tartans
I could use some advice. The "Association" field may confuse visitors. It has many names that pipe to articles with a different name. An example would be Clan MacLeod, so I'm thinking of a second field. Any suggestions on how to handle this? Thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:14, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:25, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Supposed Scots versions of Scottish place-names
I raised similar, though not entirely identical, issues a few years back regarding the addition of supposed Scots versions of Scottish place-names. The latest example which has caused me to raise the matter again involves the supposed Scots spelling of Kirkcaldy as "Kirkcaudy" which I also posted about in a more specific fashion on Kirkcaldy's talk page. As I say there the scholarly "The Place-Names of Fife... lists thirty-three historical literary references to the name from 1128 onwards, almost all spelt differently and none of them spelt Kirkcaudy. The first instance of the spelling Kirkcaldy is 1539, when everyone was speaking Scots and not English. Scots for Kirkcaldy is Kirkcaldy."

The reference given for "Kirkcaudy" as the Scots name was The Online Scots Dictionary which is part of Scots-Online which, as far as I can tell, is an interesting but self-published site and as such I doubt if it could be classified as a WP:RS. I suspect that its placename spellings may however derive from The Scots Language Centre and/or one of the sources for this list, ‘The Scots Map and Guide/Cairte in the Scots Leid’ published by MMA Maps, Glasgow, in 1993 (ISBN 0-9522629-4-0), which are more likely to satisfy the criteria for RSs (factually questionable as I believe them to be in part). (As far as I'm aware The Scots Language Centre's other named source for the list, the Scottish National Dictionary, gives dated references to printed usages of any of these placenames, per the web site version, and is thus much more reliable.)

For "Kirkcaudy" and for the supposed Scots version of various other placenames which I've seen popping up in Wikipedia, I believe this map may be the sole or originating source for many of these spellings. At best they might be classed as one possible Scots spelling but to be given the status of the Scots spelling, to the exclusion of a much more widely used name which is at least as "Scots", concerns me greatly. To take the example of Kirkcaldy again, does one created mention of "Kirkcaudy" on a map (I know of no such spelling pre-1993) and a couple of repetitions thereof in other sources trounce thousands or millions of published spellings of "Kirkcaldy" since 1539? The same applies to any other neologistic names in the list.

As far as action is concerned, do others agree that Scots-Online can not be regarded as a RS? In regard to the map and the use of its spellings at the Scots Language Centre web site, how do we regard these? With no details of its sources, can it also be dismissed as a RS? If these spellings are though allowable, surely they can't displace more widely used and no less Scots forms?

To quote another user, the only reason for this kind of change is "tae gar it luik deifferent frae Inglis", though here it's not even English but a more familiar version in Scots. Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:54, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

First Glasgow Wiki Meetup
You are invited to the first Glasgow Wiki Meetup which will take place at The Sir John Moore, 260-292 Argyle Street, City of Glasgow G2 8QW on Sunday 12 May 2013 from 1.00 pm. If you have never been to one, this is an opportunity to meet other Wikipedians in an informal atmosphere for Wiki and non-Wiki related chat and for beer or food if you like. Experienced and new contributors are all welcome. This event is definitely not restricted just to discussion of Scottish topics. Bring your laptop if you like and use the free Wifi or just bring yourself. Even better, bring a friend! Click the link for full details. Looking forward to seeing you. Philafrenzy (talk) 10:00, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Here's an idea: let's improve Iain Banks before he dies
As you might have heard, popular Scottish writer Iain Banks has only months to live. I wonder if anyone would be interested in helping to improve this article, to GA/FA quality, before he moves on? It would make a nice gift to one of the most important sf writers, and it's a one we could create without too much effort. What do you think? Centralized discussion: here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 05:14, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism
Hello, I've just registered to remove some vandalism from a non-Scottish page, but checking on the offending "editor" I've found a trail of abusive vandalism from two users user:141.92.129.44 & user:141.92.129.46 most of which centres on Scottish pages. I've looked at the Kilmarnock page & the Hurlford pages which feature a string of malicious edits, that I'm in no position to correct. Clearly I've no idea what to do about this. This is not a "page" issue, it's a "user" issue. Can someone take this further? (I should apologize here if I've done this wrong and caused any offence. None intended) Gunnlaug (talk) 22:20, 8 April 2013 (UTC)


 * You have nothing to apologize for. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I'm working on reverting many of his edits, and you are welcome to do the same. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:09, 9 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Buried are these, and I don't exactly know how to handle them:
 * Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:20, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

He's back using the third IP on this list:



Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:03, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Ancient Monuments etc info
Is there any template (similar to NHLE) for citing sources like this one: " " ? And is this the best site to go to for authoritative info on Scottish standing stones etc? An editor is creating a lot of stubs, and is responsive to suggestions for improving them, but his sole source is one book, The Modern Antiquarian, and it would be useful to be able to add an authoritative External Link (as I did at Dervaig B). Any thoughts? Pam D  19:50, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

John Buchanan Arms 1657.png
iamge:John Buchanan Arms 1657.png has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 16:49, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I assume that's a typo there, so image:John Buchanan Arms 1657.png presumably. Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:37, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikimedian in Residence at the National Library of Scotland
All, I'm delighted to be able to tell people about a new Wikipedian in Residence post at the National Library of Scotland. It's full-time, for four months, though this may possibly be negotiable to a longer period at part time. The job is paid and formally employed by the Library, funded jointly by the Library and by Wikimedia UK. http://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2013/04/1533/ has further details and a link to the NLS recruitment site.

It'd be fantastic if we had a lot of Scottish applicants, and it's also worth thinking about how access to material at the NLS would help when writing articles about Scotland. If you have any questions, please drop me a talk page message or an email - I'll try and keep an eye on this thread, too. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 12:10, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * And congratulations too from the Welsh language Wikipedia. I do hope that the advert will ensure that the WiR will be (at least) bilingual, as we would here in Wales. By the way, Richard, I've also left a message on the Gàidhlig Uicipeid informing them of this new post. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 17:46, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Which two of the three languages (or is your "at least" recognising that limiting it to fully trilingual applicants is unrealistically restrictive)? Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:28, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I hope it'll be bilingual too - but restricting it to tri- (or even bi-)lingual candidates is unrealistic. English will need to be at least one of the languages, as well, if only for HR purposes. I'm not sure of the size of the Gaelic or Scots Wikipedias, but they're quite small - smaller, I believe, than even the Cymraeg one, which narrows the field somewhat. That said, I'm planning later this week to delve into the various Scottish language projects and try and make contact with a few native speakers in the next week. If anyone can help me with that as Llywelyn2000 has - diolch Llywelyn - I'd be forever in their debt! Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 22:45, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I've never been especially active on the Scots Wikipedia but, unless matters have changed more recently, I think that lately the most active users were very limited in number and not actually native speakers. I don't know the situation for the Gaelic one. The pool of Scots- and Gaelic-speaking Wikipedians largely active on English Wikipedia may well be significantly larger though, so skills could potentially be transferred. There is a task force under this project where you could put an additional post: WikiProject Scotland/Scottish Gaelic task force.


 * Though it would be great to have someone with capabilities in Gaelic, any comparison with the situation in Wales ought to consider the 10 to 20 times higher density of Welsh speakers there and the presence in Scotland of a third native language (which, by whatever measure and for what its worth, has a significantly higher density). Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:31, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I had a look at the various WP:Scotland subpages but wasn't sure about that one (it seemed fairly dormant) - I've left a message just now on the offchance, though. Andrew Gray (talk) 23:54, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * You beat me to it - I was going to post that here this afternoon :-). This is a pretty amazing opportunity, and I do recommend people think about applying - there's scope for some excellent projects here. Andrew Gray (talk) 17:53, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

News from the WIR - in situ

 * Just wanted to follow up on this thread as I've recently taken up the post of Wikimedian in Residence at the National Library of Scotland and am hoping to make contact with as many Wikipedians and Wikimedians up here as I can. There are a couple of fantastic prospective Gaelic language projects that the Library is keen to tie in to its work with Wikimedia, and as I myself am sadly not bilingual (though I'm hoping to build on my minimal knowledge of the language) I'd love to hear from anyone with Gaelic who would be up for helping out with that. The library also has some connections with Sabhal Mòr Ostaig and we are hoping to reach out to Gaelic-speaking Wikipedians or potential Gaelic-speaking Wikipedians over the coming months.


 * Also would just love to hear from anyone who is interested in being involved in any way - we're hoping to get new and experienced Wikipedia users from around the area out to some events and to expand the ranks if we can. Feel free to leave me a talk page message or get in touch on the NLS project page. ACrockford (talk) 15:11, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

File:John Murdoch, LL.D.jpg
File:John Murdoch, LL.D.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 02:59, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Le sire de bouguenal (Buchanan) c 1445.png
File:Le sire de bouguenal (Buchanan) c 1445.png has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 03:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Ausublues.jpg
File:Ausublues.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 23:51, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

File:Eveningtimes.jpg
File:Eveningtimes.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 05:58, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

A new plague of "traditional counties" activism
It has been several years now since the Scottish article were subjected to a persistent attack of counties-itis, but recent months have seen an increasingly bizarre one-man-show in the form of User:Scotire. I have tried, very hard, to ignore his work for several months now, but the new user is clearly becoming more and more interested in high profile articles, for example the main Scotland article. A few of the edits show a little promise, but are unfortunately interspersed with countless elementary Wikipedia bloopers and almost completely lacking edit summaries. I have also just discovered, after several attempts, that the User is totally unwilling to discuss their edits. They have even made an all-too crude (and so-far unsuccessful) attempt to recruit help from an infamous traditional counties campaigner (which has the welcome side effect of putting them both on the radar). This leaves me with no option but to seek comment from other non-involved editors. Please note that due to the widely varying quality of the Users edits I have had to do something which I almost never do: that is to "blanket revert" certain articles to the "last good version" by another user. This is a crude and aggressive tool, which risks removing one or two good bits of editing, but it cannot be avoided due to the huge number of overly-bold, undiscussed edits, completely lacking edit summaries, which are jam-packed full of glaring WP:MOS errors.--Mais oui! (talk) 02:18, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Generally I agree Scotire's edits are often disruptive and they also refuse to take any advice on board. Mind you, the edit summaries are getting slightly better. I've also tried to raise issues on his Talk page but he deletes them and continues on regardless. But is this a plague of one person? This is probably a discussion specifically about a single editor's activity that needs to be discussed at one of the admin noticeboards. Sionk (talk) 18:55, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

There has been another upsurge in this activity, the initial edits which came to my attention being of the character of superfluous and clumsy plopping in of a county name to text (such as this) or the addition of a traditional county name to that of a modern council area. There has also been some major overhauling of articles as well though, e.g. Stirlingshire (including a particularly awful illustration of Bannockburn), and I'm rather concerned as to what might be found therein. Mutt Lunker (talk) 09:53, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I have now come across this editor, who seems to be working hard in various areas albeit in a misplaced way. Looks to me like a case of WP:COMPETENT. Ben   Mac  Dui  07:37, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * After only 4 days I have had enough and have posted at ANI. See Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Your input would be appreciated. Ben   Mac  Dui  19:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Deletion of references to Acts of Parliament not tolerable in a Democratic Society

 * The actions of Mais oui! in deleting references to Acts of Parliament is not, and should not be tolerated in a Democratic Society. This person has continued to ignore these Acts of Parliament and writes totally incorrect and misleading versions that brings ridicule and distrust to the name of WIKIPEDIA.  This person should explain the reasons why, or desist from those deletions. Scotire (talk) 05:09, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree these edits are clearly inappropriate and clear POV pushing. It might be possible to salvage something after talkpage discussions, but the blanket changes are just damaging the articles. If things continue it may have to go to Admin action.--  SabreBD  (talk ) 08:48, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


 * This is your inappropriate POV. It does not address the issue at hand - and that is that Mais oui! is deliberately pushing his/her own POV with no regard at all to the truth and democracy. Scotire (talk) 18:02, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Please calm down and address the matter on the talk page(s) as you have been asked. I'm not entirely sure what your point about living in a democratic society is (it certainly doesn't give editors carte blanche to make sweeping changes without engaging in discussion if they are disputed) but you might find WP:NOTDEMOCRACY of interest. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:33, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


 * These are not "sweeping changes". Mais oui! deletes changes that are factual, concise and relevant.  It is not a "plague of traditional counties activism", but corrections to articles.  Inform Mais oui! to keep to facts, not change them, especially Acts of Parliament. Scotire (talk) 18:58, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


 * My point about your substantial changes is not a value judgement about them but that you are not engaging in talk page discussions when those changes are called into contention. Do not continuously revert without discussion, that is edit warring, and you risk being blocked or even banned for this if you carry on. Mutt Lunker (talk) 19:28, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


 * My point is that Mais oui! deletes factual information on Traditional Counties. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-communities-and-local-government/series/englands-traditional-counties  Scotire (talk) 19:46, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not addressing your point and I don't have a view on it so don't waste any more time presenting it here, to me or anyone else, unless and until you have aired your point on the talk pages of the articles in question. Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:09, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Change WikiProject Scotland intro page
I have been working on a new intro page and style for WikiProject Scotland. See the draft at my sandbox. The idea is to have a navigation via tabs similar to the one used at WikiProject Clans of Scotland. Should I go ahead and change things? Yours ever, Czar Brodie (talk) 10:46, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd not noticed the new Clans one. FWIW I appreciate the effort but I'm not a huge fan, starting with the colour scheme - sludgy brown is neither good to look at nor good from a readability point of view. Blue and white scores much higher on both counts. I'm equivocal on the need to divide up the page, with a very mild preference for keeping it as one on grounds of uniformity with the majority of other project pages. At least if you're going to go the tabbed route then format all the tabs the same. I'd debate whether we need some of those tabs - the peer-review page is pretty much dead, but I accept the argument that more prominence could help revive it. I would profoundly disagree on the priorities for a reader as implied by the ordering of sections - the list of FA/GA's is neither the most important nor the most urgent thing for people to see. To get some idea of my idea of priorities, I reordered WP:WikiProject UK geography a while back - I didn't touch the visuals, and I would move the blue box at the top into the sub-projects bit, but the basic idea of trying to get a brief intro to newcomers and then the News section for the regulars both above the fold, seems sound.Le Deluge (talk) 16:58, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Not a fan of blue on white personally. Always seems to remind me of hospitals or tax forms. The basic idea was to reduce it into simplicity. Yep the other pages would have tabs at top. Yours ever, Czar Brodie (talk) 20:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Mais oui! continuous vandalism
Mais oui! changed a link to the Commons "Shires of Scotland" on Wikipedia "Shires of Scotland" back to a defunct link of "Former counties of Scotland". The Category talk:Former counties of Scotland on Commons finished over 2 weeks ago. Would an Administrator please put up a warning to him or block him from this continuous vandalism. Scotire (talk) 17:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I've been trying to follow this argument and can't make head or tail of it. From where I'm sitting it appears you've unilaterally decided to recategorise "former counties" as "former shires"? And Mais Oui has objected? Help me out here... where did this start?  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  18:50, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I am sure he knows what he is doing, Mais Oui is an experienced editor. Discuss the matter on his talk page. Yours ever, Czar Brodie (talk) 20:22, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * "Former counties of Scotland" on Commons was changed, after discussion, to "Shires of Scotland", because Mais Oui! was continually referring to counties of Scotland as being abolished and defunct, when in reality the county place-names are being used for a number of organizations, Lieutenancies, community groups, etc., and Mais Ous! was causing deliberate confusion.  The Commons "Former counties of Scotland" was changed, after the required period of 2 weeks had elapsed with no objection, to "Shires of Scotland",  and the Commons link changed on the Wikipedia "Shires of Scotland" from "Former counties of Scotland" to the new "Shires of Scotland", to be the same name both in Commons and in Wikipedia.   Mais Oui! deliberately changed the Commons link on Wikipedia to the link pointing back to the old "Former counties of Scotland" which does not now exist. Scotire (talk) 23:54, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Consistency between projects

 * Could you post a link to the discussions both on Commons and on Wikipedia where this consensus was reached? It may be that the Commons category was changed without sufficient consideration for consistency between projects.  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  10:27, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Could you post a link about the Commons move prior to Commons Former counties of Scotland being moved to Commons Shires of Scotland.....i.e. Robot:Moving category Counties of Scotland to Category:Former counties of Scotland, as there did not appear to be a discussion about that move both on Wikipedia and Commons where consensus was reached. The original Commons category of Counties of Scotland would have been consistent between those projects Scotire (talk) 18:03, 31 May 2013 (UTC)


 * You asked for an admin to intervene. I'm attempting to do just that. Will you answer my question?  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  19:25, 31 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:Former_counties_of_Scotland Scotire (talk) 01:59, 1 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The above talk on the Commons, Former counties of Scotland pointed to : Commons:Categories for discussion/2013/05/Category:Former counties of Scotland at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Categories_for_discussion/2013/05/Category:Former_counties_of_Scotland Scotire (talk) 00:10, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I have to say, I find the argument a bit bizarre. I've never heard "shire" used in a modern sense to refer to Scottish counties. I honestly can't see any value in using it. I'm not convinced that the discussion on Commons represents any form of consensus on the matter and believe the discussion should be revisited. Preferably here on Wikipedia, where it's more likely that people will see it. I suggest you stop trying to steamroll what appear to be contentious changes until that discussion has occurred.  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  13:01, 2 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I have to agree that "Counties of Scotland" should never have been changed without discussion to "Former counties of Scotland"  and should not have been steamrolled. Scotire (talk) 06:52, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

MPs 1654–1659
Comment would be welcome here on what category names should be used for the Members of Parliament who sat at Westminster during the Commonwealth of England, Scotland and Ireland in the 1650s. Thanks. Opera hat (talk) 20:29, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Piper Alpha
For such an event, Piper Alpha is pretty poor. Could somebody at least find an image? I plan to do some work on it in the coming weeks. Jamesx12345 (talk) 19:31, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

The Scots Language Society
The Scots Language Society is redlinked in Lallans. I've added a hyperlink to their website. See Talk:Lallans. It could probably use an article of its own.

I'm posting this note to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scotland. Thank you. --Thnidu (talk) 04:25, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

File:1948 T.S. West Coutts Prize Winner Aberdeen University.pdf
File:1948 T.S. West Coutts Prize Winner Aberdeen University.pdf has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 04:52, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Help needed.
Hi everyone, firstly allow me to apologise if I'm breaking any conventions by posting here and if this needs to be dropkicked elsewhere please know that I'm happy if you do so. I'm new (24 hours new), I'm a daily reader of wikipedia who decided to 'give some back' rather than simply take. To that end I want to work on what I'm best suited to, which is really anything 'Scottish' (I don't claim to be an expert in anything Scottish other than the bars of Glasgow, (specialising in those of Drumchapel 1970- 1984), but if I'm going to spend time editing grammar, punctuation and spelling for example, then I'd rather be doing it on Scottish subject matter to help you get some of the backlog down). Unfortunately my first impression of 'behind the scenes' is that there are rules and codes for everything! It almost terrifies me into a state of inactivity. That said however, I'm desperate to learn everything there is to know and to apply it for the benefit of WikiProject Scotland. To that end I saw that an article request had been made for "An account of Corsica: The Journal of a Tour to that Island and Memoirs of Pascal Paoli by James Boswell". As I have a copy and read it some years ago I thought I'd at least get the article up and running but the formatting is killing me! Could someone who knows about these things have a wee look please and advise me how to make the references appear as something other than a simple url link? Also, what should the first heading for the main body of text be? Obviously I have more to write on the article but wondered if someone, anyone, could maybe walk/talk me through it? ANY advice would be most welcome :) My meagre effort thus far can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Calamity_Hill/An_Account_of_Corsica:_The_Journal_of_a_Tour_to_that_Island

Thank You! Calamity Hill (talk) 07:52, 22 July 2013 (UTC)


 * You might find Referencing for beginners of help. Mutt Lunker (talk) 14:49, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Proposed template deletions
Template:Parliament of Scotland former constituency infobox, Template:Infobox Scotland council area and Template:Infobox Scottish island have been proposed for deletion. See Templates for discussion/Log/2013 July 28. Ben  Mac  Dui  18:29, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Requested move
There is a requested move at Estate houses in Scotland. Please comment there. RGloucester — 📬 17:27, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Gaelic medium education in Scotland
The article Gaelic medium education in Scotland appears to be several years out of date, and to have a number of problems attached. Could someone with access to recent information please spend some time on it? In particular, there does need to be a list of all Gaelic medium schools and units, there need to be current statistics, some comment is needed on the current debates about costings (it doesn't actually seem to cost any more than English medium education, but the comment sections of the papers constantly complain about how expensive it is, so reliable information is desperately needed there), and there needs to be some information on how well the children perform compared to English Medium pupils. Also: where and how are teachers trained? Is there a central authority which looks at specific aspects of their curriculum? Can the kids do school-leaving exams in the language? This would seem to be particularly important, as this is a subject of intense public debate in Scotland at the moment, and there is a crying need for solid facts. --Doric Loon (talk) 15:34, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Banffshire
Scottish editors may want to review Category:Banffshire to ensure articles there are correctly handled. For example, categories for the relevant council areas (eg Moray) may have been removed. For instance, Keith, Moray is in Category:Banffshire and Category:Towns and villages in Banffshire, but no Moray related categories.

This is result of one user (Scotire) with a strong POV on the matter (that its the counties that matter not the current council areas). Not sure if more substantial rewriting is needed.

The same issues apply on Commons, if anything its worse there as he has been making 500+ edits a day for the past month.--Nilfanion (talk) 16:53, 17 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I fear there are many more such instances. I have amended various articles on my watch list but I keep coming across more e.g. Inverness-shire. I'll take a look at the Moray issue but its incredible how much damage a single editor can do. It can be a bore confronting this kind of behaviour early on but its usually worthwhile in the long run. Ben   Mac  Dui  17:12, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sure you are right, but it will take serious time to fix things. I did a CatScan earlier on Commons and found 1,705 files categorised in Banffshire, without mention of Moray or Aberdeenshire, when all but a fraction (historical maps) should be in one or the other.
 * I have created a quick worklist at User:Nilfanion/Scotlandcats, with Banffshire for now, will check the other counties later. There are a number of geographic articles there that are likely wrong...--Nilfanion (talk) 17:34, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * One quick option would be to propose deleting the category Category:Towns and villages in Banffshire- which I can't see serves any useful purpose- and replacing its contents with Category:Populated places in Moray or similar. The articles themselves may however by badly compromised. Ben   Mac  Dui  18:22, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Well I have done some fixing at Banffshire and moved all the castles back and I will speedy the cat in a few days. Is it really possible that a single editor has gone through an entire county, with dozens of articles, without ever being challenged? Ben   Mac  Dui  18:56, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Banffshire is not the only area with these issues. Dumfries and Galloway looks like it also needs examination with categories for the counties (and a few scattered things elsewhere). Kirkinner looks typical, emphasising Wigtownshire and downplaying Dumfries and Galloway in the lead (and lots of other issues). A broader discussion may be useful, which is unfortunate, considering the current issues at WT:UKGEO which arose independently and it wouldn't the resolution of either to conflate them.--Nilfanion (talk) 20:36, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * You are right. I have been tidying up "Banffshire", got distracted and found Category:Archaeological sites in Wigtownshire. We are talking about 6,500 edits here, and at a guess I'd say fewer than 1 in 50 are worth saving. Ben   Mac  Dui  07:53, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that may be harsh. Most of the 46 edits to Kirkinner are adding content that is relevant, though maybe not great quality. Only one or two relate to Wigtownshire. However, I suspect each and every article edited needs a once-over, and that's painful. What concerns me even more is quality of future edits...--Nilfanion (talk) 10:25, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd say it was generous based on tonight's haul. There are some articles with added content but many of them are simply additions of the cat and mangling the opening sentence or two. Category:Towns and villages in Banffshire is now ready to be speedied and I have gone through everything in Cat:Banffshire itself except the other subcats, which at a quick glance look to be less of an issue. What concerns me most is that this may be the future. We have more and more articles and even if we have the same number of editors (which I doubt) they are spread ever more thinly, making this sort of thing, whether it be done or a large or small scale, harder and harder to spot. Ben   Mac  Dui  20:04, 21 August 2013 (UTC) It may be difficult to justify but I wonder if there is any mileage in having a "Rogues' Gallery" page with a list of serial offenders re Scottish articles for future reference? It could only be for permanently blocked/banned Users on AGF grounds, but we have suffered from various sockpuppeteers etc that newer editors would not be familiar with. Wonder if its been done elsewhere?

Scotire is editing again, in the same fashion. Mutt Lunker (talk) 21:44, 21 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I must confess I noticed Scotire mauling the Dunskey Castle article ages ago, but it went in the "I'll need to sort that at some point" pile, rather than dealing directly. I see he has now been blocked indefinitely - I'll start going through some of the castles in Dumfries and Galloway pages as I find time. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 12:07, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Traditional county categories
I would like to confirm what is the intention for categories based on counties. We have a well-established catebory tree based on council areas. But there is also a tree based on counties. The latter does include things like Lords Lieutenant who shold be filed under counties, but what about Category:Churches in Berwickshire‎, or the above-mentioned Category:Archaeological sites in Wigtownshire? Some of these, unlike Banffshire, do sit within council area categories. But, if we accept these then surely we should be consistent and have similar categories for all counties. My preference therefore would be to categorise places by council area only, otherwise we will end up with a confusing dual arrangement. However, it would be good to have consensus before empyting and deleting any categories. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 10:26, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree for the most part. Some trees (eg Banffshire) should be restricted to elements relating to the history of Banffshire. However, its not quite as simple as (old) county vs (new) council area. Caithness for instance, exists as a ward management area today.
 * Its useful to subdivide the Highlands somehow, and while the ward management areas are the only extant administrative subdivision I don't think we should be using them: eg Caithness ward management area is different from the historic county of Caithness. In particular, Morven is in modern Sutherland ward management area.--Nilfanion (talk) 11:35, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * In general I agree with two qualifications. The first is that the categories relating to old counties should, per Nilfanion, be restricted to historical events or individuals that relate to those counties and that might be difficult to categorise by modern council areas and/or issues directly related to lieutenancy or (should any exist) land registration. There is no good reason at have "Archaeological sites in Wigtownshire" or similar, especially as the shire did not exist during the period most or all of the structures were built, unless useful in the type of case outlined below.
 * The second is further categorisation, especially re Highland. There was a long discussion recorded at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scotland/Archive 10 that resulted in various new categories for "populated places" for this region:


 * Map of above districts here. If we need to use further sub-divisions similar procedures should be used as the default. Ben   Mac  Dui  15:10, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * PS A quick look at Category:Archaeological sites in Wigtownshire suggest that few of the articles that populate it are really archaeological sites at all - rather our indefatiguable friend has been removing articles from Category:Villages in Dumfries and Galloway and into numerous Wigtownshire ones of his own creation. I have boldly countered this trend here. Ben   Mac  Dui  16:01, 31 August 2013 (UTC)


 * OK, so I have established a Category:Parishes in Dumfries and Galloway in which to put articles about parishes. You are right that many articles in the Wigtownshire cats should not be: none of the "Cairns in Wigtownshire" articles actually have cairns as their subject. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 14:14, 2 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Where is the ruling?

I am attempting to follow the debate on the removal of categories referring to Scottish 'shires'. The term 'shire' is in common use in Scotland. I understand that the Post Office no longer uses that element in an address, and that Scottish Council areas are an administrative delineation, but shires do still exist. There are at least ten Scottish Westminster constituencies which are shires. Who has made the decision to make these changes? And where can I find that recorded? Shipsview (talk) 15:01, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * First of all, please bear in mind that this is a potentially hot topic at present. If you search above and below you will see that editors have been putting a great deal of effort into sorting out an almighty mess created by a now indefinitely blocked user with a fondness for shires. None of that is your fault but you may encounter a shortness of patience.
 * Secondly, no-one is denying that 'shires' or Counties of Scotland as we might call them have both a past and in some cases at least a present existence. This may come in the form of lieutenancy areas, registration counties or, as you suggest, constituencies.
 * However the main issue at hand is the relative value of these things in a category tree. Long-standing usage has been for the modern day council areas to be used as the main way in which we categorise articles in relation to the geography of Scotland and to use the old counties, which are no longer local authority areas, for essentially history-related purposes. The above-mentioned user spent some considerable effort in creating a category tree that ignored this and in moving articles from say categories of Moray to Banffshire. Where the sub-categories of Banffshire etc have been emptied and their contents replaced in the usual system the new categories have been speedily deleted as they are empty. However there is no plan that I am aware of to remove the categories for the shires themselves, or their valid sub-categories - and nor would I support it if there was one. Perhaps I should emphasise that the main task in hand is to undo the damage and the discussion about these categories you see here is secondary to that.  Ben   Mac  Dui  17:50, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I am curious which you mean when you refer to "at least ten Scottish Westminster constituencies which are shires"? The constituencies are built up from the electoral wards, which are subdivisions of the council areas. Some like Perth and North Perthshire are named for and cover part of the shires, but that isn't quite same as what you said. It means the shires are useful areas to refer to when defining the constituencies, not that the shires exist as constituencies themselves.--Nilfanion (talk) 21:21, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * See also Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject British Counties. Ben   Mac  Dui  07:35, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps I should have said 'at least ten Scottish Westminster constituencies which include shires, or part of a shire' for clarity. So what this banned person should have been doing is creating categories for former shires and/or counties and everyone would be happy? I do not actually like the term 'shire' in Scotland! But there we are. Shipsview (talk) 09:18, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not keen on shire either, but will use it here for discussion purposes Strictly speaking all the Westminster constituencies contain the entirety of a shire, or parts of that shire; the electoral landscape is just another geography. The fact some are named after shires indicates the shires are still somewhat useful in describing areas of Scotland.
 * The categories were created by others a long time ago (not by Scotire). And clearly Category:Stirlingshire is a useful category, as it should contain Stirlingshire and topics like Lord Lieutenant of Stirlingshire. Its not as clear if geographic articles (like villages) should be included. Certainly, that info shouldn't be added at the expense of the council area, but is there any benefit or harm in having that article in Banffshire in addition to Aberdeenshire? When a council area and shire have the same name, it gets more complex and more clearly harmful to have both. eg Including Greenock in Category:Renfrewshire means there is a real risk of confusion: What council area is it in?
 * The Commons RFC mentioned further down this page relates to this same issue, and has further discussion.--Nilfanion (talk) 11:05, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Stirlingshire is a good example; to the north there are communities in Perthshire that now fall in the Stirling Council administrative area, and in West Stirlingshire (or should that be west Stirlingshire?) there are communities in the Glasgow postal area.Shipsview (talk)

Vandal on the loose
User talk:Amanbir Singh Grewal is consistently detagging pages of their proper tags such as at Scottish independence referendum, 2014. Keep an eye out for him, I'm no admin but have been here long enough to spot a wrecker. Maybe a sockpuppet or something like that. Good to get an admin to investigate, if anyone else could do that? Cheers! Brendandh (talk) 11:11, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Please help get Scotland ready for the start of the Wiki Loves Monuments competition on 1st September
This September the UK is taking part for the first time in the international photography competition Wiki Loves Monuments. Participants will be invited to submit pictures of listed buildings of significant importance (category A), as recorded by Historic Scotland. The main external website for competitors can be found here, and you can leave a message there if you have queries about competing. Do please join in, and let people in your local area know of this excellent way in which both existing and new Wiki users can help improve the encyclopaedia by contributing photographs of local listed structures. What about organizing a local Wikimeet to attract new people?

In preparation for the start of the competition on 1st September there is still quite a lot of work to do, and we would like to ask for the help of members of this wikiproject. Your local and expert knowledge will be invaluable in ensuring that the lists of eligible buildings are up to date and correctly formatted. If you look at Listed buildings in the United Kingdom you will see how many structures are included. If you then follow the link to Listed buildings in Scotland, you can get to the detailed lists for your area. Alternatively have a look at the WLM planning table. Can you help to ensure that the lists for your area are up to date and well presented?

Some of the lists have been semi-automatically generated from data provided by Historic Scotland. These use pre formatted templates (eg NS header) which will make it much easier for competition participants to upload their photographs to Commons as an automated process. Please don't change the template structure, as we need to ensure that the templates are properly compatible with the WLM standards that are in use worldwide. The format will allow a bot automatically to collect the information and to put it into the international Monuments Database.

The data still needs the attention of local editors:
 * The "title" may need wikilinking to a suitable article name (whether we currently have that article or not). If there are several buildings in one street all of the wikilinks point at an article about the street; however each entry has a separate line in the list.
 * The "location" column looks and sorts better if just the parish or town is included (& wikilinked).
 * The "date completed" column sometimes has eg "C19" for 19th century, and "C1850" for c. 1850 when the date is uncertain - these need to be corrected manually.
 * The "grid ref & lat & long" (which is occasionally missing) may be given to 8 characters — only 6 (grid ref) or 5 (lat & long) are really needed.
 * Clicking on the "list entry number" should take you to the data sheet for that entry on the Historic Scotland database which can be checked if needed for details.
 * The image column should have a picture added if we already have a suitable image on Commons. (N.B. if you are going to be taking photos yourself for inclusion in the competition don't upload them until September)
 * References may be added according to normal WP practice.

For further information, please see [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2013_in_the_United_Kingdom Commons:Wiki Loves Monuments 2013 in the United Kingdom. ]

If you have any queries, please post them not below but on the Organizers' help page on Commons.

Anything you can do to help improve these lists will be much appreciated. '''The final deadline for cleaning up is 31st August.

'''Also, a final push is needed to get the lists up for Edinburgh and Glasgow. If you can assist please contact User:Andrew Gray who has recently called for help on the WLM2013 mailing list. Thanks''' --MichaelMaggs (talk) 16:29, 22 August 2013 (UTC)


 * To update a bit on Michael's comment -
 * All the lists (save Glasgow and Edinburgh) have been converted from the excellently detailed lists that Jonathan Oldenbuck put up a few years back - the main goal of the conversion was to get the WLM templates in place. These have a very high data quality, so won't need much work in linking etc - just a quick check for articles which have been created since then.
 * There may be some entries on the lists which have been delisted since 2010; I found one or two when working through the lists manually. If a link returns no result, it's probably because it's been delisted (or demolished) - the database doesn't seem to keep "now removed" entries - and should be removed.
 * All the coordinates in the Scottish lists use Ordnance Survey grid refs, not lat-long.
 * I'll post back here when I've got Glasgow & Edinburgh up and running. Andrew Gray (talk) 18:04, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
 * There are now two truly monstrous lists at List of Category A listed buildings in Edinburgh and List of Category A listed buildings in Glasgow. Andrew Gray (talk) 20:22, 22 August 2013 (UTC)


 * List of Category A listed buildings in Glasgow is now mostly cleaned up and has links/images for a fair few sites (though no doubt there's a lot more on Commons). It still needs an "overview" section for the lead, which I don't think I'm qualified to write - anyone feel like cribbing something from Architecture in Glasgow?
 * Edinburgh is about four times as long so will have to wait for tomorrow; it needs cleaning up plus a similar overview. Andrew Gray (talk) 22:30, 22 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Edinburgh is now up and running (thanks to Jarry1250). I've split the list into three - Old Town, New Town, and everything else. There's an open query at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Edinburgh about how to define those areas, if anyone has advice. Andrew Gray (talk) 11:25, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Commons RFC
Please note this RFC on Commons, which directly relates to a number of threads above regarding traditional counties etc.--Nilfanion (talk) 19:11, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Scotire and copyvios
I've been a little suspicious about the chance of copyvios by Scotire for some time, due to the nature of his contributions (dubious quality, poor wikification etc).

I've managed to pin down one concrete example in Kirkinner. Compare this edit to this blog, and note the respective dates.

I'm not sure of the procedures to follow on this, but I will be looking for further examples.--Nilfanion (talk) 22:37, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * And like everything else involving this user, it might be complex to figure out. Kirkcolm contains two copy/pastes. The one from is a copyvio, but the one from  isn't(as that work is in Public Domain due to age).--Nilfanion (talk) 23:51, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * In the ideal world we'd all have the time and interest to go through the entire back catalogue and distinguish the wheat from the chaff. It is clearly easier just to remove the edits wholesale and in cases where there is as a suspicion of copyvio this may be the safest course of action. Ben   Mac  Dui  08:13, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed - copyvios may need harsher treatment (like rev deletion) than the POV stuff. I've got a feeling that little of his edits will be worth retaining. I've created a list of affected pages here, and am checking them slowly.--Nilfanion (talk) 08:28, 4 September 2013 (UTC)


 * That's a useful list Nilfanion, thanks for setting it up. I've noticed some of these as I've edited the Wigtownshire parish articles, and have dealt with the more egregious ones. I'll try to continue in the same vein, with reference to your list. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 09:43, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * A useful and daunting list. I just discovered the mess at Inverness-shire - I will take a look at that asap. Ben   Mac  Dui  18:18, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

On a related note, I've noticed problems with the images Scotire has uploaded to Commons - most of them seem to be much higher resolution than the source image. eg for images from Geograph, only available at 640x480, a 6000 pixel image has been uploaded. Maybe this isn't actually 'wrong', but it seems like a pointless waste of memory and loss of quality. eg see File:Boharm Parish Kirkyard, Banffshire.jpg or File:Rait Castle.jpg. Or most of Scotire's other uploads:. --Vclaw (talk) 20:05, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that should be rectified too. The maps are particularly disappointing as I'm sure there are genuine high res versions available. Bear in mind Geograph files are generally 640x480, but can be bigger in some instances.--Nilfanion (talk) 21:22, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Likely Scotire anon IP sock on the loose. May be worth looking out for others. Ben   Mac  Dui  19:47, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

COI for WiR at the NLS and seeking Wikimedia trainers in Scotland
Hi all - a double-headed post from Edinburgh. First up, the NLS has had a complaint about a broken link on their Wikipedia article, specifically the link to the 2008/9 budget in the infobox which is also an outdated statistic. While I am sure that fixing the link myself or having an NLS staffer do it wouldn't be a COI necessarily, everyone is a bit hesitant here as the NLS has been burned for COI in the past, and as the Wikimedian in Residence I am likewise a bit tentative. Also because I think the budget could be updated instead of the link simply fixed. The correct reference is available here but this is a more recent link which would update the budget figure - it is more recent and indicates the operating budget in section 3.2 (for info, the Library also publishes its annual review, report and accounts on its website here). The talk page seems pretty silent, so I thought I'd check here before going forward just to be safe. Advice appreciated.

Second part: when I met with User:Daria Cybulska (WMUK) last month we discussed the possibility of having an informal exchange of information for Wikimedians in Scotland who might be interested in acting as trainers occasionally at future workshops and WMUK events, since there seems to be a growing interest in Scotland. I know a few people who are interested in the Edinburgh area but wanted to gauge interest more generally, both in Edinburgh and elsewhere, before taking things further. Would appreciate anyone who is interested leaving me a message here or on my talk page, or listing their interest on the NLS project page's participation tab! Thanks, ACrockford (talk) 11:55, 9 September 2013 (UTC)


 * For the first, simple factual corrections & broken links looks fine to me, but if you want to be scrupulously transparent leave a note on the talkpage saying you've done so. Andrew Gray (talk) 22:40, 10 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks Andrew - thought as much but wanted to be sure. Looking forward to meeting you next week! ACrockford (talk) 18:56, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikimedians in Scotland Meetup in Edinburgh
Since there were two fantastic meetups in Glasgow this past year, we thought it would be a good idea to host the next Wikimedia meetup in Edinburgh. Details are now available on the event page - the meetup will take place on 27 October at the Malt Shovel Inn, which is very near Waverley station so we hope will attract some Wikimedians from Glasgow and elsewhere nearby! Very much hope to see some new and old faces there. ACrockford (talk) 19:00, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Knights of the Thistle
Category:Australian Knights of the Thistle has been nominated for merger and Category:Honorary Knights of the Thistle has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 05:50, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Map of Scotland
Does a superior map exist for the article Subdivisions of Scotland? With the font used in this map, I had to use the highest resolution and then magnify it to be able to read the names of the regions. I was looking all over WP articles concerning Scotland to find a map of its regions and I was hoping for a clearer version. I'll try to find a free image on the Commons but I'm not familiar with this geographic area and if someone more familiar with Scotland knows where an image exists, I would welcome your help! Liz Read! Talk! 18:01, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * It would be good to have a map that shows all parts of Scotland in the correct locations, not having Shetland in a silly inset box. Some maps on Commons here: Commons:Category:Maps of unitary councils of Scotland. I think this map looks pretty good, though it does have some placenames in German: File:Scotland, administrative divisions - de - colored.svg. Or a numbered version: File:Scotland, administrative divisions - Nmbrs - colored.svg. --Vclaw (talk) 11:27, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit-a-thon in Edinburgh 19 October
This 19 October from 10-5 the National Library of Scotland will be hosting an edit-a-thon on Early Photography in Scotland to which all Wikipedians interested in the topic are most welcome!

Details about the event are listed on the events page, and we hope to see participants from other GLAM organisations in Edinburgh and the wider area attend as well. If you are interested in photography this is the event for you, and it will help contribute to a topic which is currently quite under-developed in Wikipedia. I very much hope you will come!

Also a reminder that there is a Wikimeet in Edinburgh on 27 October at the Malt Shovel Inn, and a Wiki&Biccy session on 4 October in the NLS Boardroom on George IV Bridge, Edinburgh. ACrockford (talk) 12:53, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

It's a honey
If you fancy a quick insight into, and possible chortle at, our vandal fighting techniques, have a look at the revision history of Huney (which escaped my watch list for some reason) from 1 Jan 2012 on. Ben  Mac  Dui  08:34, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, MacDui - that certainly raised a smile (actually I spluttered my coffee all over the keyboard laughing over it!). Isn't it wonderful how someone kindly came along and fixed the typos etc as well?  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  19:47, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It was indeed a triumph of style over content for a while. I wonder if there is a listing of similar faux pas or long-standing nonsenses somewhere. I don't recall seeing more than one other but they must be pretty numerous. Ben   Mac  Dui  11:01, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

1900s Robert Balfour Lib Glasgow Partick 06-22.jpg
image:1900s Robert Balfour Lib Glasgow Partick 06-22.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.249.39 (talk) 05:59, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Cameron Cammy Smith
Is Cameron Smith (footballer) or Cammy Smith (footballer) the primary Cammy Smith footballer? See talk:Cammy Smith (footballer) for the discussion -- 76.65.129.3 (talk) 22:33, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

"Gary"
I've tried to include sourced information where Garaidh has a diminutive form "Gary" and "Garry", but it keeps getting deleted. We are discussing it at talk:Gary (given name), I'd like to invite other people to provide input. -- 76.65.131.217 (talk) 07:51, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

ScotWiki Mailing List
Thought this might be of interest: Wikimedia UK have launched a ScotWiki mailing list to help encourage more Wikimedia events in Scotland and hopefully to establish greater contact between Wikimedians throughout the country. You can sign up here - any/everybody is welcome to join! The goal is to spread the word about Wikimedia events or projects in Scotland; you can also promote or organise your own, or join in general discussion - the usual mailing list stuff! ACrockford (talk) 18:19, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Drumsagard Village
I've just recreated this article as a stub after it was deleted as copyvio in order to encourage the new editor, User:Smallan who created it in good faith. I'm not even sure if the title is ok or if it needs enhancing with Cambuslan or South Lanarkshire added to it. I was looking for the wikiproject template - why isn't it on the main page? I'd appreciate it if someone would add it. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 12:12, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I've put the template on and dug up a couple of (admittedly not great) extra refs but hopefully it will give Smallan something more to work with. I know nothing about Cambuslang I'm afraid!  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  14:09, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Johann Lamont
Hi, I'm looking for some help expanding Johann Lamont's article. I've done quite a bit of work recently on background and pre-Labour leadership, but there's still a lot more to do. I've mentioned this at WP:UKPOLITICS, but thought here might be a more appropriate place. If anyone can help, please feel free to add anything you feel is appropriate, and thanks in advance. Paul MacDermott (talk) 16:51, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Parish maps
I've uploaded a full set of maps of the council areas showing the parishes (in commons:Category:Civil parishes in Scotland). It is trivial to create locator maps for the 871 parishes from these.

As the parishes are obsolete, and not generally marked on maps, its not clear what geographic area articles like List of listed buildings in Contin, Highland actually cover. These maps should assist with that.--Nilfanion (talk) 23:23, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This looks like quite a body of work and is certainly very helpful. For those of us unfamiliar with locator maps could you point to an example of how to set one up? Ben   Mac  Dui  10:51, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * There is a detailed set of instructions (for the similar task of creating electoral result maps) at User:Nilfanion/Elections. To create a locator, all that is needed is to identify the path corresponding to the area to be highlighted, and change the fill from #fefee9 to #d40000.
 * One issue to be aware of: Some parishes cross council area boundaries (eg Straiton - E and S Ayrshire), only the part within the council area is visible on that council area's blank.--Nilfanion (talk) 18:15, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. Ben   Mac  Dui  19:11, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Edinburgh
I have raised a discussion at Talk:Edinburgh as I have a difference of opinion with another editor over what should be in the lead, and would rather seek consensus than get in an arm-wrestle about it. all input welcomed. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:14, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Politics of Orkney and Shetland
Category:Politics of the county of Orkney and Category:Politics of the county of Shetland, both of which fall within the scope of this WikiProject, have been nominated by me for merger. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:56, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Eyes north and west
There have been some significant edits to the normally quiet Davaar Island and Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer of late and the articles could do with a few more eyes for the time being. The former involves an anon IP persistently adding poorly referenced and WP:UNDUE material about a drowning. In the latter case the edits themselves seem OK but they are being made by two apparently single purpose accounts. While I am on the subject, Economy of Scotland has a regular section blanker at present as well. Ben  Mac  Dui  19:28, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Have semiprotected two of them, though I can't figure out what is going on in the religious order and left that for the minute. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:47, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The section being blanked in Economy of Scotland has been got at by User:Lolm8, who made similar highly questionable changes to the Scotland article between 15th October and 3rd November, with edits overwhelmingly not supported by citations. These citations were largely statistics alone, given interpretation and considerable spin not voiced in the citations. The user marks all their edits as minor, few if any of them fitting the description. The user was blocked twice for warring on this matter. They appear to have been active on the relevant section in Economy of Scotland since the 13th June so I will revert to the edit previous to this. Apologies if this removes any credible edits made in this period. Mutt Lunker (talk) 16:20, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

AfC submission
Could anyone have a look at this submission? Thanks, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 20:01, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Could be a useful addition; needs a re-write to meet encyclopedia article standards.Shipsview (talk) 22:50, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

GAR
Winston Churchill, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Dana boomer (talk) 01:07, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

A Question
I'm looking for a Scottish perspective, here. Can anybody help? Thanks, Moonraker12 (talk) 10:50, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Gavin Francis - notable?
Hi - In looking at the Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust Book Awards page, I noticed that only the most recent winner, Gavin Francis, does not have an article. I know that there was an article which was deleted for not proving notability; however, this seems to have been before Francis' novel received the award. I would wonder whether this might mean an article is warranted? It does look a bit strange that he's the only recipient without a page. I didn't want to go about creating a page if it was going to be taken down again, though.

ACrockford (talk) 14:08, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
 * It looks to me as if he would be sufficiently notable to merit an article. He's redlinked from 2013 Costa Book Awards as well. The previous deleted article seems to have been created by an inexperienced editor, so may not have been adequately referenced to verify his notability. If you feel able to create a new article I would say go for it! --Deskford (talk) 14:32, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I might be considered faintly biased ;-), but the prize & a Costa nomination now seem good indicators of notability. Is there much written about him (eg a profile somewhere) to draw on? Andrew Gray (talk) 20:34, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Sectarianism and the Clearances
I seem to have found myself sucked into an ongoing debate on Talk:Highland Clearances about whether or not there was a significant anti-Catholic motive behind the Clearances, and to what degree (if at all) this is an ongoing historical debate. It doesn't seem to be going anywhere (other than around in circles) and a few more eyes would be appreciated. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:05, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Historic Scotland links changed
Note Historic Scotland have recently changed their website for listed building reports. So the URLs for all of these have changed, the old links give 404 errors. eg changed from this: So worth checking and updating any relevant articles. Note the reference number (HB number) is the same, so the links could be updated automatically. Maybe worth getting a bot to update all of the links? --Vclaw (talk) 23:16, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * old URL- http://hsewsf.sedsh.gov.uk/hslive/portal.hsstart?P_HBNUM=6421
 * new URL- http://data.historic-scotland.gov.uk/pls/htmldb/f?p=2200:15:0::::BUILDING:6421
 * Speaking of Historic Scotland - is there a template similar to the English heritage one that can be used for Historic Scotland?  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  11:44, 17 February 2014 (UTC)


 * There's Historic-scotland-link for HS properties. There is also a Template:Hbnumber for listed buildings, which uses the old website address, and which currently isn't used anywhere. Looking at the history, it appears to have been created ages ago by one "Jonathan Oldenbuck". Hm. Another forgotten project... I'm sure it could be tarted up, but unlike EH, HS don't have a single database of assets - there are different searches for listed buildings, scheduled monuments etc - so difficult to set up a single template. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 14:53, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Jonathan - I guess I was just looking for a lazy way of doing it!  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  15:20, 17 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I went through everything in Category:Listed buildings in Scotland using AWB to find and replace the relevant urls. Hopefully that has picked up most of them, though I'm sure there are others. I'll maybe look more at how best to search for links (what links to Historic Scotland might work...) Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 17:22, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

AfC submission
Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Port of Inverness. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 19:03, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Written out from History
Boys, Girls, Middles, please look at Talk:United Kingdom, there is some silliness going on here. Brendandh (talk) 22:25, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Image requested for the memorial plaque on Sir Andrew Halliday's tomb at Saint Michael's in Dumfries, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland
Aloha! I have been working on the Andrew Halliday (physician) article. I understand from a source at Leeds University (right now it is not connecting) that the memorial plaque on his tomb has some interesting information. Since I live on the opposite side of the globe in Hawaiʻi (incidentally, I am a sixteenth Scottish), I am hoping to find a Doonhamer or the like who might be willing to seek out Sir Andrew Halliday's tomb & take a picture of the memorial plaque. His tomb is located at Saint Michael's in Dumfries, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland. Mahalo! Peaceray (talk) 21:35, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I checked back with the Summary for the gravestone of Sir Andrew Halliday, & it is back up & viewable now. Peaceray (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Popular pages tool update
As of January, the popular pages tool has moved from the Toolserver to Wikimedia Tool Labs. The code has changed significantly from the Toolserver version, but users should notice few differences. Please take a moment to look over your project's list for any anomalies, such as pages that you expect to see that are missing or pages that seem to have more views than expected. Note that unlike other tools, this tool aggregates all views from redirects, which means it will typically have higher numbers. (For January 2014 specifically, 35 hours of data is missing from the WMF data, which was approximated from other dates. For most articles, this should yield a more accurate number. However, a few articles, like ones featured on the Main Page, may be off).

Web tools, to replace the ones at ~alexz/pop, will become available over the next few weeks at popularpages. All of the historical data (back to July 2009 for some projects) has been copied over. The tool to view historical data is currently partially available (assessment data and a few projects may not be available at the moment). The tool to add new projects to the bot's list is also available now (editing the configuration of current projects coming soon). Unlike the previous tool, all changes will be effective immediately. OAuth is used to authenticate users, allowing only regular users to make changes to prevent abuse. A visible history of configuration additions and changes is coming soon. Once tools become fully available, their toolserver versions will redirect to Labs.

If you have any questions, want to report any bugs, or there are any features you would like to see that aren't currently available on the Toolserver tools, see the updated FAQ or contact me on my talk page. Mr.Z-bot (talk) (for Mr.Z-man ) 05:24, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Template talk:Europe topic
Some Scottish input is desperately needed on here just now.--MacRùsgail (talk) 12:05, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Invitation to User Study
Would you be interested in participating in a user study? We are a team at University of Washington studying methods for finding collaborators within a Wikipedia community. We are looking for volunteers to evaluate a new visualization tool. All you need to do is to prepare for your laptop/desktop, web camera, and speaker for video communication with Google Hangout. We will provide you with a Amazon gift card in appreciation of your time and participation. For more information about this study, please visit our wiki page (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Finding_a_Collaborator). If you would like to participate in our user study, please send me a message at Wkmaster (talk) 18:12, 15 March 2014 (UTC).

Shetland, Orkney and the Isles
I know we have an article specifically on the Lerwick Declaration, but in the light of recent news reports like this, this, and this, do we need a wider new article on moves for greater autonomy and/or referenda in those isles? Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:02, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I've created the article Constitutional status of Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles. I was coming on here to see if there was anyone else who would be interested in helping. JASpencer (talk) 20:35, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Questionable edits on census stats at Roman Catholicism in Scotland
An editor has been adding their own interpretation of Scottish census stats, or putting a different spin on interpretations given in sources, at Roman Catholicism in Scotland. Some of their personal interpretations may have a level of validity (though often they do not) but seem to be aimed at pushing a POV and when neither stated or implied in the sources are OR or SYNTH. Their understanding of the subject also seems somewhat lacking, for instance confusing actual church membership with simply noting religious affiliation on a census form. Their mode of expression is often in need of copyediting or rephrasing. Some other eyes on the article would be appreciated. Mutt Lunker (talk) 14:30, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Just to note, I've only just noticed that an edit conflict resulted in re-insertion of the dubious text, which I have now amended. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:37, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

AfC submission - 08/04
Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Ui Church - St Columba's Chapel. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 01:16, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Robert Burns Birthplace Museum
Dear Scotland experts: The above old Afc submission has some information that could be added to the Burns' Cottage article. Should the resulting larger article be named "Burns' Cottage" or "Robert Burns Birthplace Museum"? The draft can be made into a redirect to retain attribution. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 01:42, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

AfC submission - 27/04
Articles for creation/The Island Queen. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 17:04, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

GA article being reassessed: Carnoustie
Carnoustie was reviewed and listed as a Good Article in Sept 2008. The article has been tagged with sourcing concerns since Dec 2009. I have done a GAR, which indicates that the article doesn't meet GA criteria for the WP:Lead, the size and focus, the prose, and sourcing. The main contributor has been notified, though is not able to do any work at the moment. Following the guidelines at Good article reassessment, this WikiProject is now being informed as the article may be delisted. See Talk:Carnoustie/GA2 for more details.  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  22:42, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Anyone recognize this tower?
This tower in Manchester, New Hampshire, USA, is described as being a copy of a "famous Scottish lookout tower". It was built in 1888 by Frederick Smyth, who toured Scotland and England in the 1880s. Does anyone here have suggestions as to what tower it might be a copy of? (I didn't spot any obvious candidates in the relevant Commons image category.)  Magic ♪piano 13:54, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Looks more like a generic pastiche than a specific copy. To further muddy the waters this 1906 source calls the inspiration England rather than Scotland, although our transatlantic cousins are never great at telling the difference. The pebble construction calls to mind the flint buildings of southern England, but you get small lookout towers all over the place. If anything, round ones are more Irish, the Scots tended to go more for square buildings. Le Deluge (talk) 16:58, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * It is somewhat reminiscent of various follies which occur throughout Britain - it doesn't on the face of it have a particularly 'Scottish' feel about it. cheers Geopersona (talk) 18:46, 3 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Given that none of the sources I've been able to track down are at all specific, I was dubious about it being an actual copy (rather than a pastiche or Yankee re-imagining of something seen somewhere in Britain), but thought I'd ask. I doubt very much Mr. Smyth took measurements... Thanks for your comments.  Magic ♪piano 20:02, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride 2014
You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride 2014, a campaign to create and improve LGBT-related content at Wikipedia and its sister projects. The campaign will take place throughout the month of June, culminating with a multinational edit-a-thon on June 21. Meetups are being held in some cities, or you can participate remotely. All constructive edits are welcome in order to contribute to Wikipedia's mission of providing quality, accurate information. Articles within Category:LGBT in Europe may be of particular interest. You can also upload LGBT-related images by participating in Wikimedia Commons' LGBT-related photo challenge. You are encouraged to share the results of your work here. Happy editing! -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:49, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject Scotland At Wikimania 2014
Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to: Project leaflets Adikhajuria (talk) 10:44, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Traditional counties advocacy edits?
This may be a false alarm but I have spotted what may be signs of a new crop of "traditional counties" advocacy edits by a newish editor, User:Zacwill16. I probably will not have time to check this out, certainly not immediately, so if someone else could and act accordingly or call off the alarm as appropriate (and notify the user that they are being discussed perhaps?) I'd be most grateful. Gotta go... Mutt Lunker (talk) 19:07, 25 June 2014 (UTC)


 * A look at some of the most recent edits, to Dull, Perth and Kinross, Sutherland and The Burryman would appear to confirm this suspicion but the user's edit history points to the likelihood of much more. This kind of thing was last discussed here I think but is there something the editor could be pointed towards regarding policy or consensus and hopefully nip any POV-pushing campaign in the bud? Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:45, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Thomas Affleck (planter)
Hello. Some of you may be interested in expanding Thomas Affleck (planter)'s page. A Scottish immigrant to the US from Dumfries, he became a prominent plantation owner in Texas, nurseryman, author, etc. I wonder if any of you could find out more about his Scottish ancestry (did he come from an esteemed family in Scotland?); a portrait would also be great. Anyway, I just thought I would mention this here in case anyone is interested. Please only do add more info with inlined references.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:57, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Commons uploads of interest from National Library of Scotland
Hi all,

Just wanted to flag up the content that has recently been uploaded to commons as part of the National Library of Scotland's collaboration with Wikimedia UK. Three batches totalling about 250 images have been released. The photos include images of the construction of the Forth Bridge, the Tay Bridge disaster, and early 19th century sketches of locations around Scotland from John Claude Nattes and James Fittler's Scotia Depicta.

Hopefully some of this content will be of interest or of use to this project!

Cheers, ACrockford (talk) 12:51, 9 July 2014 (UTC)


 * To add to this, a further 200 images including posters and photographs from the Weir Collection of material relating to late 19th century theatre in Edinburgh and Glasgow have now been uploaded as well, and more content will follow soon. Will keep this talk page updated if that's alright. ACrockford (talk) 12:06, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Is Corryvreckan in the Minch?
I've been invited to "fuck off moron" in regard to a frankly bizarre debate on the talk page of the Blue men of the Minch article, hingeing on a simple matter of geography. The article is a featured article candidate and contains a significant contradiction which would prove embarrassing when featured on the main page. The debate regards the assertion in the lede that the men are "localised to the Minch, unknown in other parts of Scotland" yet discusses prominently their presence at Corryvreckan, the best part of 100 miles from the Minch. A major contributor to the article is proving aggressively impervious to debate on this point, apparently sufficiently convinced in their belief about the geography that they have refused the invitation to even simply check it at Wikipedia's article on Corryvreckan and the one on the Minch and the map therein. Does (contrary to any documentation I have seen) a definition of the Minch in fact extend as far south as Jura and Scarba (or is Corryvreckan not in fact between these islands)? In that case the Minch or Corryvreckan articles are in serious need of attention. Mutt Lunker (talk) 08:26, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, whatever the dispute, it is unacceptable for an editor to make personal insults like that. The editor concerned could be pointed towards reading WP:NPA.
 * I've had a quick look over the article and it looks to me like it is conflating two mythologies from different geographical locations, the "blue men of the Minch" and the "storm kelpies of Corrievreckan". Since the article in question is about the blue men, I would suggest that material about the storm kelpies should probably be removed, unless a reliable source demonstrates a link between the two, or if such a link can be demonstrated it should clearly be explained in the article. --Deskford (talk) 13:52, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, agree entirely. Mutt Lunker (talk) 16:26, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * That's Malleus... He has a particular style of interaction that can be a bit direct, but is a prolific content editor. If you can, try to not take it personally.  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  19:44, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks! I hadn't realised who Eric was. That maybe explains things, but doesn't excuse them. I've left a comment over at Talk:Blue men of the Minch calling for calm. I hope it will be heeded. --Deskford (talk) 00:00, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Well I can not take it personally in the sense that there’s clearly no basis for the insults but it’s impossible to be constructive with an editor who will only engage on personal rather than factual terms. If this is typical of elements of the content they produce, and the manner they deal with queries on it, that they are prolific is more of a concern than any sort of mitigating factor. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:03, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Well as you are so concerned about the "typical elements of the content they produce", I suggest you go and spend your time checking through the rest of the articles I have expanded/created - try Pitfour estate, Forglen House, James Smith (architect), Inchdrewer Castle etc etc - I'm afraid they bare no resemblance to Hanklyn-Janklin but I hadn't realised that was the high standard being aimed for by this project.  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  15:19, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Sticking with the ad hominem I see rather than prepared to address the matter at hand. Corryvreckan in relation to the Blue Men? Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:31, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * As I suggested, go and check everything else I've worked on if it is such a concern to you - or perhaps you need to canvass for a bit more support first? Oh and by the way, FAs are not automatically included as TFAs.  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  15:40, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * No, lets stick with the specific queries I have raised re this one article as you seem intent on diverting attention from them. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:04, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Incidentally "they" above = "the editor" singular, i.e. Eric. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:50, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * How extraordinary - if, as you claim, that is the case, how come your comment starting "Sticking with ..." doesn't make that clarification? Or do you just backtrack whenever it suits you?  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  19:25, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm completely mystified as to what triggered all the mud-slinging – probably a fair bit of misinterpretation and misunderstanding – but the article has now been protected for four days, so I hope this will give people a chance to cool off and think of a constructive way forwards. --Deskford (talk) 19:10, 14 July 2014 (UTC)


 * This lazy tagging, only two days after the FA star was added. Discuss on the talk page, fine, but don't deface a brand new FA like that. Eric   Corbett  19:24, 14 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Matt, Eric is simply a quite dreadful Wiki-dragon (sub-species uncertain) and if I were in more jocular mood I'd say that the opening description to the (now sadly sidelined) Nuckelavee FAC sounds suspiciously like he is editing an article about himself. On no account is he to be fed and the best medicine is to ignore him until, as he usually does, he calms down and re-commences his excellent work.  Ben   Mac  Dui  19:39, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Aha, from now on that's how I'll picture Eric – presumably this is a cousin of the creature that in Shetland is called a njuggle or njugal? Well, I've seen enough drama for one day.  I'm off for an evening swim in the Minch.  --Deskford (talk) 20:01, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Let me put this as simply as I can for the hard of understanding. You work your bollocks off for a few weeks, you put yourself through the stress of an FAC for another few weeks, and then two or three days later some twat comes along and defaces your article over some minor issue or other. If you think that's acceptable then you and I have nothing more to say to each other. Eric   Corbett  17:14, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

British Newspaper Archive
Hey All, just wanted to let everyone know, that we have about 15 more slots available for access to British Newspaper Archive through WP:The Wikipedia Library. If you would like access, apply at WP:BNA. Sadads (talk) 14:41, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

""
The usage of is under discussion, see talk:Scots -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 04:41, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Scottish pioneer in Southern California
Your attention is called to a new article, Daniel Freeman (Los Angeles County), in which Scotlander Daniel Freeman, ostensibly a "Sir" of some sort, is mentioned and a link is made to Crathes_Castle. If you would like to link to this article or make comments about its relation to Scotland, please do so on the Talk Page over there. Thank you, GeorgeLouis (talk) 21:46, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Scotland portal
[Copying this here from the portal talk page in hope of reaching a wider audience.] Is this portal still being maintained? Selected article & quotes are both currently redlinked. Additionally the news has not been updated since February. Espresso Addict (talk) 09:15, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Banff and Macduff
The page Banff and Macduff has been nominated for WP:PROD deletion. In principle I am in agreement that we don't need this article, but there is a problem. At one point this single article covered both towns in detail, and I was responsible for separating it into articles for each town. Unfortunately I did it by copy-and-paste – I was fairly new to Wikipedia at the time and didn't appreciate the importance of preserving editing histories – which means that if this article is deleted we will lose the early history. I think this would cause us licensing problems. Is there a way of clearing up this mess? Many apologies for causing it! --Deskford (talk) 15:09, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Try WP:CPMV. Ben   Mac  Dui  18:56, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. has come up with what seems like a good solution. --Deskford (talk) 10:08, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

MSPs' Websites
Most of the MSPs' articles that I've checked so far contain out-dated links to http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/membersPages/. Current links for all MSP's can be found at http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msps/current-msps.aspx. I'm going through fixing them but if anyone wants to help that would be appreciated.GideonF (talk) 15:12, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Glen Keltney near Schiehallion same spot as Lochan near Aberfeldy?
Relating to the Kelpie article, the folklorist Katharine Mary Briggs records a story of the kelpie at "Glen Keltney near Schiehallion" in Perthshire in one work, but later records the identical story as a water horse tale that occurs in "a small lochan near Aberfeldy. I edited on the assumption that she is talking about the same location (call it "Body of Water X"), about 5km from either Schiehallion or Aberfeldy. So feedback on yes or no, if I am resorting to WP:Opinion here, and how to rephrase it to avoid that charge. Talk:Kelpie--Kiyoweap (talk) 04:38, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

I would appreciate comments at Talk:Kelpie on these geography questions:
 * Folklorist Katharine Mary Briggs's tale of the kelpie at "Glen Keltney near Schiehallion" (in her 1967 work) and her each uisge tale at "a small lochan near Aberfeldy are substantively identical, but for some choices in phrasing the story. I am assuming the same body of water is being referred to, so comments.
 * One tale is localized in Loch na cloinne "lake of the children", which the source says is between Farr, Sutherland and Thurso in Caithness. The aricle adopts the Thurso location, but I suspect Farr might be the better choice. --Kiyoweap (talk) 04:47, 23 August 2014 (UTC)


 * What makes you think that? --Hafspajen (talk) 13:08, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I am deliberately leaving it as an open exercise, a quiz of sorts, without providing my arguments/solutions here, in order to give the geographically minded a chance to make their own inquiries and make assessments from a relatively clean slate.
 * But if you want to forgo that step, I do go a bit further into argument at either Talk:Kelpie or Talk:Kelpie, so please go there and respond. (Minor typos fixed on my previous post)--Kiyoweap (talk) 18:56, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Interview for The Signpost
The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Scotland for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Thanks,  Rcsprinter123    (warn)  @ 09:09, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Is this website reliable?
I'm normally quite good in deciding whether a website is reliable before using it as a reference. I just however want other people's opinions on whether I should use this article as a source: Dumfries and Galloway: What's Going On? Simply south ...... sitting on fans for just 8 years 11:05, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:48, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

European Sleep Apnea Database deletion discussion
European Sleep Apnea Database is undergoing a deletion discussion, AFD page at Articles for deletion/European Sleep Apnea Database. &mdash; Cirt (talk) 03:49, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
 * European Sleep Apnea Database

WikiProject X is live!


Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Stoorworm etymology dispute feedback
Before a DYK appears that states "Did you know that the Stoor worm of Orkney derives its name from Old Norse Storðar-gandr, a kenning for the Midgard Serpent..." I am advocating getting this info pulled from the article. Please leave your considered input at Talk:Stoor worm. The reliablility, due weight, etc. of this info has been a matter of ongoing dispute, and I apologize for the messy talk page there.--Kiyoweap (talk) 14:02, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

The National
Hi, I've been working on The National over the last few days and plan to put it forward for DYK, so I wondered if anyone has an image we can upload, perhaps of the first edition. Thanks, This is Paul (talk) 15:51, 25 November 2014 (UTC)


 * One issue is licensing, but File:Herald (Glasgow) front page.png suggests that some sort of 'fair use' would apply. If you don't have a copy of the newspaper to photograph itself you could upload a screen-grab from the website, which might suffice. Ben   Mac  Dui  19:41, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Sadly don't have a copy, and can't see anything other than the masthead on the site. A Google image search presents something promising on the BBC News site, but directs to a different page when clicked. Hopefully someone with a copy will see this thread, or maybe when it goes to DYK. This is Paul (talk) 19:57, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I bought one today but I see you have an image now. Nice article btw - and I have a picture of the owner of Inchmarnock into the bargain. Ben   Mac  Dui  10:06, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I found one for sale on ebay so got someone to enhance and upload it for me. Really wish I'd kept my first edition of the I now. This is Paul (talk) 00:07, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree, very nice article. Excellent work (still got to buy my first copy ... manyana or ramorra, perhaps?). -- Cactus.man  &#9997;  21:20, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

ScotWiki meetup in Glasgow, 1 February
The ScotWiki community has been growing pretty quickly and pretty impressively over the last two years! We've got two Wikimedians in Residence based north of the border now, one in Edinburgh and one starting next week in Glasgow. We've had 8 meetups since May 2013, and have launched a ScotWiki mailing list (which everyone is encouraged to join!) with over 60 members. We also hosted an extremely successful EduWiki 2014 conference in Edinburgh at the end of October.

The next meetup will take place in Glasgow at the CCA Saramago cafe, on 1 February from 13:00. It would be really great to see some new (or old!) faces from the WikiProject Scotland if anyone can make it! ACrockford (talk) 13:36, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

March 2015 Art+Feminism event in Dundee
Hi Scotland Wikipedians! I am reaching out to see if anyone would be interested in helping out with editing training for a Meetup/ArtAndFeminism edit-a-thon being organized in Dundee. We would appreciate any assistance in securing at least one experienced Wikipedian in the area, and I'd be happy to put you in touch with the organizers if you are able to help out. If interested, please reply on wiki or by e-mail at thepwnco.wiki@gmail.com. Cheers! -Thepwnco (talk) 22:37, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Feelers for ScotWiki meetup in April
Hi all - wanted to put some feelers out for the next ScotWiki meetup! I thought sometime in early-mid April would be good, but was hoping to hear from folk about what days/times would suit best? We have been meeting Sunday afternoons, but weekday evenings might be a better shot for some. Also, at the last meetup, it was suggested we look for a location near Haymarket station in Edinburgh. What's the thought on this? Input, please! ACrockford (talk) 14:47, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * There's a new pub right by Haymarket station called Platform 5 that might be suitable? They show sport though, so maybe check sports fixtures in case anything big's on..Lirazelf (talk) 09:29, 18 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Platform 5 looked like a great place, and while there was one person on the mailing list who had mentioned 1 April as a possible date, it seemed just too soon to give people enough notice, so I've set up an events page for a meetup on Wednesday 22 April, 18:30 at Platform 5 near Haymarket. All welcome, please spread the word! ACrockford (talk) 13:38, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Diary-ed, and will do! Lirazelf (talk) 13:54, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Scottish Fairground Culture Editathon, May 2015
Hello all! If you're a fan of all things fairground, I'd love to see you at the Scottish Fairground culture editathon at the Riverside Museum on 7 May, 1pm-5pm. Details on the event page. Drop me a line on my talk page, Wikimedian in Residence Project page, or email if you've got any questions! Lirazelf (talk) 16:10, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh dear, linkfail! Here's the correct one... Scottish Fairground Culture Editathon Lirazelf (talk) 10:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Move discussion at Talk:Isle of Mull
Latha math, I just wanted to notify people here that a move discussion is currently going on at Talk:Isle of Mull and I'm trying to generate more interest – I don't think this falls under WP:CANVAS because this place is neutral. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 04:18, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, commented there. Notifying an interested project seems a legitimate and appropriate thing to do. --Deskford (talk) 09:13, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Alexander Brodie (1697–1754) listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Alexander Brodie (1697–1754) to be moved to Alexander Brodie of that Ilk. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 23:22, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

ScotWiki meetup in June - Glasgow Edition, anyone?
Hi folks! Just putting out a call to see who might be interested in a Glasgow meetup - thinking Thursday 18th June, 6.30pm, somewhere like the Drum & Monkey on St Vincent / Renfield? Shout if you'd like to attend! Lirazelf (talk) 11:26, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello again folks - I've created a meetup page for the 18th June - 6.30-8.30pm at the Drum & Monkey in Glasgow - hoep to see you there! Do let us know if you're coming... Lirazelf (talk) 15:50, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride
 You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride!


 * What? Wiki Loves Pride, a campaign to document and photograph LGBT culture and history, including pride events
 * When? June 2015
 * How can you help?
 * 1.) Create or improve LGBT-related articles and showcase the results of your work here
 * 2.) Upload photographs or other media related to LGBT culture and history, including pride events, and add images to relevant Wikipedia articles; feel free to create a subpage with a gallery of your images (see examples from last year)
 * 3.) Contribute to an LGBT-related task force at another Wikimedia project (Wikidata, Wikimedia Commons, Wikivoyage, etc.)

Or, view or update the current list of Tasks. This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. Visit the group's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Wikipedia, plain and simple, and all are welcome!

If you have any questions, please leave a message on the campaign's main talk page.

Thanks, and happy editing!

User:Another Believer and User:OR drohowa

ScotWiki Summer meetup - Edinburgh
Hello all! Just want to gauge interest in an August meetup in Edinburgh, or should we wait till after Festival madness? Lirazelf (talk) 09:54, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Edinburgh meetup!
Hello all! I've organised an Edinburgh meetup on Wednesday 30 September at Platform 5, 18:30... more info here. Hope to see some of you there! Lirazelf (talk) 13:52, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Old maps and views of parts of Scotland
As you might have seen in the Signpost this week, there's currently a drive to go through the million 19th century images released by the British Library last year, and identify all the maps, with a view to their being georeferenced by BL volunteers, and then uploaded to Commons early next year. As of Sunday night, over five thousand new maps have been identified, with 26.5% of the target books looked at -- but see the status page for the latest figures, and more information.

A part that may specifically interest this project is
 * c:Commons:British Library/Mechanical Curator collection/Synoptic index/Scotland

which currently shows pink templated links for 342 Flickr book pages still to be looked at. (Though there are lots of other parts of the world, still to be looked through as well).

Any help looking through these would be very much appreciated -- as well as the maps (and ground plans) for tagging, you may well also find other interesting or useful non-map views that may be worth considering or uploading for articles on different places in Scotland.

Thanks, Jheald (talk) 01:03, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

ScotlandsPeople
Via Wikipedia Library, the online resources of ScotlandsPeople are going to be freely available to approved editors: ScotlandsPeople Thincat (talk) 20:42, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

UK Infobox
After a short discussion here about the use of parishes in Template:Infobox UK place, this led to a discussion aimed at amending the template here. The presenting issue is that adding the parameter ' |civil_parish ' to Scottish places (e.g. Broadford, Skye) results in the infobox showing a link to Civil parishes in England, which is of course both inaccurate and misleading as Civil parishes in Scotland are a quite different beast. EP111 has been very active in adding details such as this to Scottish island places infoboxes of late, which is where I came across the issue. He or she is clearly attempting to sort this out. However, I am not at all convinced that adding civil parishes to the Scottish variant of this template is useful. They have no statutory force and are (I beleive) mainly used by local authorities as a convenient way of gathering statistics. As suggested, community councils are an optional and perhaps better way of dealing with this, but I don't use this infobox and those more familiar with it may wish to comment. (I have various other grumbles about the infobox and am reluctant to get too involved. Ping me if you are curious.) Ben   Mac  Dui  16:18, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The whole problem started when the separate English, Scottish and Welsh infoboxes were merged into the appalling UK infobox, against the unanimous wishes of Scottish Wikipedians at the time. The idiocy of recruited "voting" on Talk pages in a nutshell. The whole thing is a mess and can only be sorted out by restoring the national infoboxes, which can be properly tailored to the different situations in each country. Won't happen, due to the usual vote-stacking, therefore I won't get involved. Tis simple arithmetic that small countries will always get out-voted by ones which are ten times bigger, irrespective of the strength of the arguments. Accept it and move on.--Mais oui! (talk) 19:38, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

River Cart Aqueduct
If somebody could add a picture of the River Cart Aqueduct that would be great. It used to be an aqueduct, until it was converted into a railway bridge, but it's still called an aqueduct after 120 years. Google maps link. RandomPerson137 (talk) 23:09, 4 January 2015 (UTC)


 * If you search on Commons for White Cart Water you might find something. If not, you could try Geograph. Ben   Mac  Dui  09:45, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Scottish Geography Task Force
Stumbled upon Category:Waterfalls of Scotland, through random article. Fairy Loup popped up, and it was a one liner (Fairy Loup is a waterfall in Scotland). Checking all 277 articles in the category and associated sub-categories, most of them are essentially that form. Identified only 19 which currently meet notability guidelines per geographic places.

Having found very little in the way of confirming notability, raised a "trial" Afd on the Fairy Loup article here, prior to putting in a series of bundled Afd nominations to clean up the category. Along comes a demon searcher and the results he achieved convinced me to withdraw the nomination.

To the point! There is a significant amount of work to get through all 277 articles. Is there an active Geography Taskforce who might be interested in picking up the gauntlet?

--Haruth (talk) 19:35, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting. The first thing that I notice is that the editor who created all these stubs is banned for abusing multiple accounts, although it's not clear what other accounts he has used. I then notice that he has been discussed on the administrators' noticeboard for creating large numbers of geographical stubs for other parts of the world too, so fast that people suspected him of using some kind of a bot, though again I'm not sure there's evidence to back this up. However, given that these stubs exist, the question is are they worth keeping. We tend to view geographical features as inherently notable, and I suspect that many of the others could be brought up to scratch if they were subjected to the same effort that your test case was. (Cheers to the editor who did the rescue, by the way!) The problem is I think we just don't have enough editors with the time and inclination to do the work required. I don't think any such taskforce exists. --Deskford (talk) 23:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I created the original list of Scottish waterfalls, clear in my own head that the majority of falls would never merit their own article - appearance in the listing with a grid ref etc sufficing for WP purposes. I recall querying (to little effect) the editor to whom you refer on another list article where he'd done much the same. However some could doubtless be expanded to advantage but, as you observe, who has the time? cheers Geopersona (talk) 20:21, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm the editor who bailed out Fairy Loup. I've been looking over these articles as a whole, trying to come up with some organized approach to dealing with them, but it's rough. It's seemingly random which waterfalls have coverage and which don't. If I had my way, any of these which can be legitimately sourced with something interesting to say should be expanded into better-quality stubs. Those which cannot, but which are features of a named watercourse (river, stream, whatever) should be merged to the article for their parent body, and those which aren't able to be referenced and have no valid merge target should be redirected to the master Scottish waterfall list (and have their entry there delinked). One of the biggest barriers to enacting this is the state of articles on Scottish waterways: even some fairly significant tributaries are redlinks, to say nothing of the enormous number of smaller streams in the Highlands. That many of these features (and rivers!) have multiple names – including English and Gaelic toponyms, literal English translations of the Gaelic names, and a wealth of variant spellings – does not make this process any easier, especially for an American editor like myself with minimal knowledge of Scottish geography to begin with! Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 15:19, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, thank you for the bailout! To give an idea of the number of waterfalls in Scotland, I have a copy of The Waterfalls of Scotland by Louis Stott (1987) which has between a short paragraph and a couple of pages on, he says, 750 waterfalls though he says there are a thousand more that could be "easily distinguished". Looking closer, sometimes he merely has a grid reference. He says he has included everything on the 1:50,000 OS maps, plus all those named in the New Statistical Account, plus some others that have caught his attention. Fairy Loup is not included (not on 1:50,000 map either). Thincat (talk) 19:24, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * That seems like a reasonable place to start. At some point, a lot of work needs to be done on Scottish rivers, too (badly!) but at least with the waterfalls, we've got a list to work from. For the ones in the book that aren't just coordinates, there's probably better descriptions and coverage than random searching will provide. I'm sure this is easier with better access to local information, too! I added some content to Achness Falls, although I suspect there's more out there. I'm officially giving up on Allalith Linn for a host of reasons: Google Maps suggests that the stream is Allaloth Burn, not Allalith Burn, and at least seems to indicate that Allaloth Linn is the name for a section of the waterway before its confluence with the Burn of Tynet; the multiple conflicting meanings of linn aren't helping. Regardless, I'm having a hard time finding any concrete references to this. Honestly, I don't think I'm going to have the time or resources to tackle these myself, although I'd be happy to lend a hand if others do. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 21:39, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Stott seems to have given up on Allaloth Linn as well. (The place and the watercourse or waterfall could well be spelt differently and spelling can be various). Also no one has put up a photo on Geograph. I live in that part of Scotland (but I'm English) and to me a linn is a narrow gorge where water rushes through, not necessarily a waterfall. However my Scots dictionary says it's a pool at the base of a fall or the actual fall itself. I've added to Achness Falls – Stott has two short paragraphs split by two pages of photos, hence the 106–109 page range. He organises his book by river/tributary so I'll see how that compares with what WP has. I'm happy to add a bit from time to time (ping me?) but I don't want to take on a major task that I'll never finish. Thincat (talk) 23:22, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah! The glossary in Stott: Linn: Waterfall; strictly the pool below a waterfall; in southern Scotland often the stream as a whole; rarely, a gorge. So it looks like I have been wrong. Thincat (talk) 23:35, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Feedback on Abertay University article, please
Hi - i've been trying to improve the Abertay article and would welcome comments. Thanks. Jonty 16:29, 14 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hpurcell1659 (talk • contribs)

Hi again. I would like to get the boosterism charge removed..and would welcome guidance on where refs verification is required. Within the history section, I cited the main source in the introduction. Do I have to repeat this throughout the history section? Or does this general ref suffice!Jonty 22:00, 6 March 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hpurcell1659 (talk • contribs)

Invergordon Distillery Pipe Band
Does anybody have any ideas for good sources for Invergordon Distillery Pipe Band? This legendary band existed for just four years and didn't leave much trace, but contained some of the finest players of the century. Ostrichyearning (talk) 11:06, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Comment on Roman Cartography in History of Scotland
The issue of whether to include text and images on Ptolomy's mapping of Scotland and related issues at History of Scotland is taking place at Talk:History of Scotland. The views of other editors on the issue would be much appreciated.--  SabreBD  (talk ) 07:59, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Joan Curran Summer House
I am after a picture of the Joan Curran Summer House. It's like a gazebo on the grounds of Ross Priory at the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow. If a Wikipedian with a camera could take a photograph, it would be much appreciated. Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:36, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Vitrified forts
There were some comments, misplaced into the Vitrified fort article by an IP claiming to be archaeologist Euan MacKie, which I've moved to the talk page. The comments call the article into question and whether genuinely by Mackie or not, indicate a book chapter which may be a useful source for the article, should someone have it. Mutt Lunker (talk) 01:15, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Ronald Stevenson
Do we have any guidelines as to when we identify people as "Scottish", "English" or "British"? Ronald Stevenson is described as "British" in the (very short) lead, but is placed in categories including Category:English composers and Category:20th-century English musicians. He was born and educated in England, but came from a Scottish family and spent most of his adult life in Scotland. In my experience he was always thought of as a Scottish composer, and he identified himself with Scottish culture and tradition, as is clear from the Independent obituary. Is there a way of resolving this without opening up cans of political worms? --Deskford (talk) 14:53, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Population stats
Per my post at Talk:Fife I think there is a problem with population stats in the lede but its ref has succumbed to link rot and I'm unable to find the correct figures. Any pointers please? Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:34, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Clan Tennant: any interested editors?
I want to bring Clan Tennant into the Wiki spotlight by way of opening the case of a future article for a prospective project editor.

I have casually looked at the Clan Tennant: Motto, Crest, Tartan, and history. This includes the wiki articles on Baron Glenconner, and 3rd Baron Glenconner, who I believe represent the Clan Tennant as chiefs.

"As of 2014 the titles are held by the third Baron's grandson, the fourth Baron, who, when he succeeded in August 2010 became the next to youngest peer in the Realm." ... "Cody Charles Edward Tennant, 4th Baron Glenconner (born 1994); grandson of the 3rd Baron through the Hon. Charles Tennant."

It does interest me to find away to further the heritage here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1001bobs (talk • contribs) 08:31, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

New Scottish MPs
The 2015 general election replaced 50 out of 59 Scottish MPs with newcomers. Full list at List of MPs for constituencies in Scotland 2015–20.

Some of these new articles have been developed very well, but 34 of the 50 articles on new Scottish MPs are still stubs. I thought that it be helpful to post a list of the 34 articles, so here it is.

Anyone interested working on these biographies should find that there should be plenty of sources available, both from when candidates were selected in January and February 2015, and after the election in May.

Hope this helps ... and if not, sorry for intruding. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:30, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

New Scottish MPs which are still stubs
Feel free to strike out any which are unstubbed. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)


 * Richard Arkless &mdash; Dumfries and Galloway
 * Hannah Bardell &mdash; 	Livingston
 * Kirsty Blackman &mdash; Aberdeen North
 * Phil Boswell &mdash; 	Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill
 * Deidre Brock &mdash; Edinburgh North & Leith
 * Alan Brown (Scottish politician) &mdash;
 * Lisa Cameron &mdash; 	East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow
 * Douglas Chapman (Scottish politician) &mdash; Dunfermline and West Fife
 * Joanna Cherry &mdash; Edinburgh South West
 * Ronnie Cowan (Scottish politician) &mdash; Inverclyde
 * Angela Crawley &mdash; Lanark and Hamilton East
 * Martyn Day (politician) &mdash; Linlithgow and East Falkirk
 * Martin Docherty &mdash; 	West Dunbartonshire
 * Stuart Donaldson (Scottish politician). &mdash; West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine
 * Marion Fellows &mdash; Motherwell and Wishaw
 * Margaret Ferrier &mdash; Rutherglen and Hamilton West
 * Stephen Gethins &mdash; North East Fife
 * Patricia Gibson &mdash; North Ayrshire and Arran
 * Patrick Grady &mdash; Glasgow North
 * Peter Grant (politician) &mdash; Glenrothes
 * Neil Gray &mdash; Airdrie & Shotts
 * Drew Hendry &mdash; Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey
 * George Kerevan &mdash; East Lothian
 * Calum Kerr &mdash; Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
 * Chris Law (politician) &mdash; Dundee West
 * Stewart McDonald (politician) &mdash; Glasgow South
 * John McNally (politician) &mdash; Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East
 * Carol Monaghan &mdash; 	Glasgow North West
 * Gavin Newlands &mdash; 	Paisley and Renfrewshire North
 * Steven Paterson &mdash; Stirling
 * Owen Thompson &mdash; Midlothian
 * Michelle Thomson &mdash; Edinburgh West
 * Philippa Whitford &mdash; Central Ayrshire
 * Corri Wilson &mdash; 	Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock

New stub on Highland Minute (1885 education subsidies for rural schools)
I somehow ran across mention of this, no idea where, so years ago put it on my To Do list and just now knocked out a stub on it. I find it interesting that on GoogleBooks I find almost nothing about it written in the last 50 years or more, just hits from roughly the period and a few decades following. Perhaps someone else has some ideas on how to beef this up, or help tie it into the larger context of education in Scotland? MatthewVanitas (talk) 13:48, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Superfluous "Lakes of..."/"Lochs of..." cat duplication
I've notified User:Hmains that their creation of numerous "Lakes of Foo (council area)" in duplication of the existing "Lochs of Foo (council area)" is superfluous; presumably down to a WP:ENGVAR misunderstanding. I did make a start dealing with the nominations for deletion but can't really continue at the moment. See Category:Lakes of Scotland by council area if anyone wants to take a look. Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Is it possible to make a bulk nomination of a list of categories for deletion, in the same way you can for pages? --Deskford (talk) 12:55, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It would be very handy if there is. Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Now CFDed here. Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:29, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It would be useful if the CFDs appeared at WikiProject Scotland/Article alerts but I'm not sure what triggers the bot to pick it up. Any ideas? Mutt Lunker (talk) 09:59, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * My guess is that because these new categories don't have the WikiProject Scotland banner in their talk pages, the bot doesn't recognize them as being of interest to this project. --Deskford (talk) 10:50, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * sorry, my apologies, I am months behind in trying to project tag scottish categories....JarrahTree 10:54, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Aha, that's the key - thanks both. I'll pitch in. Mutt Lunker (talk) 12:05, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * When new cats are created, in most cases no project tag is added, that is the problem... JarrahTree 01:13, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure. Mutt Lunker (talk) 07:42, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Problem is we have variant main pages of relevant categories in the project - something like the dialogue in Category:Lochs_of_South_Lanarkshire something more sparse at Category:Lochs_of_Fife or the really dry lake approach of Category:Lochs_of_Argyll_and_Bute - as a project, or whoever wants to throw their sixpence in, - there is a need for consistency... I prefer the way I did fife - but await any response to this... JarrahTree 10:16, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

2015 IPC Swimming Championship
Next week the 2015 IPC Swimming World Championships will commence at the Tollcross Centre in Glasgow. I've knocked up the article to cover the event and will update the results over the tournament. Unfortunately I'm stuck in Wales and won't be able to get there to capture any images. If there are any Scottish Wikipedians that are going to the tournament I would love you to grab some shots from the pool, but I would even appreciate someone in the Glasgow who could just take a photo of the centre from the outside maybe draped in IPC logos showing the event. Thanks in advance, FruitMonkey (talk) 21:49, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

project comment required
Are scottish council areas strictly synonymous with english countiees? JarrahTree 07:26, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Not really, because all Scottish councils are single-tier ("unitary authorities"). In England, although there are some unitary authorities, many counties are the upper tier of a two-tier system, with boroughs at the more local level, whilst in the metropolitan areas the county has no council and everything is taken care of by the borough. --Deskford (talk) 13:34, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

St John's Renfield Church
It seems to me that the "St John's Renfield Church" article needs to be bolstered up. The fact the Chalmers himself was the first Minister at St John's, the switch at the Dissension to the Free church, the memorable Ministry of Dods at Renfield and the quantity of Moderators and professors that the Church produced are worthy of a more detailed article.

Over the next 2 days, I intend to expand the historical section, provide a complete list of Ministers since 1819 while leaving the rest of the article untouched.

Please look in and comment. Kpobi2 (talk) 15:29, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Question on Dalrymple, Ayrshire
Hello, I tried to disambiguate a couple of links to Dalrymple. Turns out this Wikipedia has links to a Dalrymple, East Ayrshire and a Dalrymple, South Ayrshire. But looking at the coordinates on a map, it seems to me it's the same Dalrymple. Is there maybe a difference between the village and the parish, the latter possibly stretching out across two council areas? Anyone in the know, please have a look, and see if you can get the links and associated articles fixed. Rgds, --Midas02 (talk) 03:50, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I think you're right about the village/parish situation. Looking at the OS map, the village is at the tip of westwards projecting salient of East Ayrshire into South Ayrshire with the boundary skirting the village to the north and south and with a small part of the village south of the River Doon in S Ayrshire, as is the Dalrymple wood less than a mile to the south west. It's not unusual for parishes to lie across historical county or modern political divisions though I don't know if this is a result of the creation of the latest 1996 divisions or not. Not sure how to resolve the existence of the two links but if the parish is indeed split between E and S Ayrshire, I guess Dalrymple, East Ayrshire and Dalrymple, South Ayrshire are both valid units but unlikely to support stand-alone articles under their part-parish definition. Possibly an addition to the dab page to make:


 * "===Scotland===
 * Dalrymple, East Ayrshire, a small ex-mining village near the west coast of Scotland
 * Dalrymple, South Ayrshire, the part of the parish of the above which falls in the adjacent South Ayrshire council area"


 * or the like? Not sure if Dalrymple, South Ayrshire should stay red-linked, be a redirect to Dalrymple, East Ayrshire or to the dab page though. Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:38, 14 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I implemented a modified version of that change, at the Dalrymple disambiguation page. (Since Dalrymple, South Ayrshire is currently a redlink, there needs to be a supporting bluelink to an article that uses the redlink in a meaningful context, per MOS:DABRL.)  do  ncr  am  18:04, 14 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Here's a map of the parish which would support that the parish lies across the council boundary, the Doon forming the parish boundary (although they display slightly misaligned in my browser at least) and the parts of the parish to the west and immediately to the north of the village falling in modern S Ayrshire.


 * Regarding the links to Dalrymple, South Ayrshire: Kerse Loch is in East Ayrshire so I've corrected this; the William Burnes one regards the 18th century parish school in the village itself which should probably therefore link to the village article at Dalrymple, East Ayrshire, even if it happened to fall in the tiny part of the village now in S Ayrshire, likewise amended. Carcluie Loch and Lindston Loch, South Ayrshire are a little over a mile to the north west and north east of the village respectively but are in S Ayrshire. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:08, 14 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks to both of you for your attention to this matter. The fact that South Ayrshire borders Dalrymple on the south, and yet comes around to the north, tricked me, about Lindston Loch, South Ayrshire.  It was complicated by the fact that Google maps can show East Ayrshire's borders when one searches on East Ayshire (and are zoomed out, they go visible when zoomed in), but not when one searches on Lindston Loch.  And also by the fact that the article did not display coordinates for Lindston Loch.  I revised the Lindston Loch article to display coordinates in its lede, instead of in the Lakes infobox, and with use of name= parameter but not type= parameter (see history of article for various permutations tried.  I am left wondering why the article says the loch "was" a freshwater lake, when it still is.  Maybe it was meant to say the loch was once much larger or something?


 * Kerse Loch's coordinates also do not display. I'll leave that as is, could one of you fix it?  Perhaps you can figure out if there is a general problem for coordinates display for lakes in this area.  Thanks.  do  ncr  am  17:51, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I was just about to post on the talk page to the same effect as, although not large, Lindston Loch is clearly marked on the OS map, about 150 metres in length. Yes, it's also marked on Google maps but the satellite view indicates a clearing between and surrounded by a wood to the north and south, with vegetation, including some shrubs or small trees. Does it appear seasonally perhaps? Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:03, 14 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The only problem left is that Dalrymple, South Ayrshire is now leading a life as a red link, and will more than probably never receive an article. Wouldn't it be best to redirect it to Dalrymple, and make a note of it on the article that there is a) a village predominantly lying with E. Ayrshire, and b) a parish, which stretches out across both councils (which would also correct the current statement which reads "... is a village and civil parish in East Ayrshire, Scotland")? --Midas02 (talk) 03:27, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Dalrymple, South Ayrshire should exist solely as a redirect. That is because the parish of Dalrymple is a single entity that is in both council areas. The dab page should not link to Dalrymple, South Ayrshire, but the listing for Dalrymple should mention it is partially in South Ayrshire. The lead of the article should also mention that the parish is in both areas.
 * An alternative solution is to split the two meanings of Dalrymple into two separate articles - making Dalrymple, East Ayrshire solely about the village, and creating Dalrymple (civil parish). This may be a better solution as articles solely about parishes (eg Abernethy and Kincardine) are viable.--Nilfanion (talk) 09:12, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Note this is not a issue solely for Dalyrmple. By my estimation, 55 parishes of the 871 parishes listed by the GRO cross council area boundaries.

Some of these are relatively minor and would not be the case if the parish boundaries were not frozen from 80 years ago (eg Edinburgh would be aligned to the current boundary). Straiton is even worse than Dalrymple, as its about 50% in the "wrong" council area.--Nilfanion (talk) 09:05, 15 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Ok, I've fixed it then as per the proposition I made. The South Ayrshire link has been redirected to the article as well. That will do for the time being. If someone wants to create an article about the civil parish at a later point in time, he can always do so. If it's not against the naming standard, you may want to ask an admin to move the whole article to Dalrymple, Scotland as well, as it is the common denominator for a civil parish which lies in both council areas. --Midas02 (talk) 01:53, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

New article
I had the pleasure of writing Trinity Chain Pier recently. I invite anyone with interest to look it over. There are already some interesting discussions on the talk page. --John (talk) 22:58, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Fascinating read, thanks. Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:44, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Clan Duncan
A few weeks ago there was a rather bizarre and disruptive editing campaign at Clan Duncan which was largely reverted piecemeal but appears to have left the article somewhat changed nonetheless. There was also copious posting on the talk page by the same editor, some of a mud-slinging nature and much of it about a Clan Duncan website. The individual named in the posts has now responded in dismay at the changes and the posts. He seems to be considerably more articulate but as his website appears to be at least in part of a campaigning nature, I thought it might be worthwhile having a few more eyes across matters. Mutt Lunker (talk) 21:06, 17 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I thought it had already been reverted... I've changed it to the earlier version for the time being.  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  13:12, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Might be worth anyone knowledgeable on the topic checking this version too though. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:12, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Probably. I tend to avoid clan articles for various reasons, but the disruptive behaviour of the other editor makes me suspect the current version is more reliable. Good catch on the rant on Talk:England.  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  15:39, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Aye, some clan articles can be real repositories of shortbread tin havers. My impression is also that the revert is a marked improvement. Mutt Lunker (talk) 16:23, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Category:Scottish Gaelic-speaking people
Participants here may be interested in a CfD proposal to delete Category:Scottish Gaelic-speaking people. It can be found here. Sionk (talk) 18:53, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Vidlin
Could someone who knows about the Norse origins of Shetland names please look at this edit on Vidlin? Other edits by this user have been non-constructive, but with this one I'm unsure. A source would be useful. --Deskford (talk) 20:16, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
 * This editor has continued to edit disruptively elsewhere, so I have made the assumption that this edit must also be regarded as unreliable. I have reverted it. --Deskford (talk) 08:53, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Photos from Glasgow Museums & Braemar Castle now on WikiCommons
Hello all - following the Backstage Pass event at Glasgow Museums (hidden parts of Kelvingrove Art Gallery & Museum, the currently-under-refurbishment Kelvin Hall, and the Riverside Museum), and a small but interesting collaboration with Braemar Castle, there are new photographs available on WikiCommons which may be of interest to the community here.
 * Images from Braemar Castle
 * Glasgow Museums GLAMWiki images

There's some interesting shots of 18th century graffiti at Braemar Castle, as well as Delft tiles and some furniture. If anyone would like further information on any of these items, please ask and I can contact the Castle Manager who I'm sure will be happy to help!

In the Glasgow Museums' selection, we saw the Lewis & Company organ, and there are a number of unusual architectural features. There are more pictures to be added to this category so please do check back. Again, should you have any questions about these items please shout - I'll speak to the Wiki Working Group there and see what they can do! Lirazelf (talk) 15:53, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

"The Duke of Edinburgh Awards"
The usage of The Duke of Edinburgh Awards is under discussion, see talk:The Duke of Edinburgh Awards -- 70.51.202.113 (talk) 23:46, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

More cleanup required
The same editor who caused the confusion over lakes and lochs (see above) has also been making prolific changes in other areas. Whilst I'm sure these edits are well-intentioned, and many have cleaned up aspects of article categorization, some have been unhelpful. I suspect this editor is not aware of the culture of Scotland, such as the peculiar sensitivity to calling lochs "lakes", and he/she seems to believe that Mull is uninhabited, and that the islands of the Firth of Clyde and Pentland Firth are part of the Inner Hebrides. He/she has also moved many articles on islands without discussion away from the comma-based disambiguation specified by WP:UKPLACE to parenthetic disambiguation, e.g. Jura, Scotland to Jura (Scotland). I have moved back the main islands that were affected, Jura, Lismore, Yell and Sanday, but there seem to be many more smaller islands needing attention. We seem to be very short of active editors here at the moment – any help appreciated! --Deskford (talk) 13:47, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest drawing the editor's attention to your post here so that they can return to the articles they have affected and pitch in with the cleanup and reversions required. Mutt Lunker (talk) 14:39, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Good suggestion. I did raise the issue on their talk page a month ago, but let's try pinging them here... if you could help with moving these Scottish island pages back to their agreed names using comma-based disambiguation then I would be very grateful, as I'm sure would be many of my fellow Scottish WP editors. --Deskford (talk) 22:30, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
 * If anyone knows how to mechanically make such changes, I would like to know how. Changing names by ordinary editors like me seems to be a one-way path--if I could even find which ones are involved. Hmains (talk) 01:46, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if there is a way of doing it mechanically. Reverting page moves often requires administrator action – which makes WP:BRD difficult to apply in practice – so I was rather surprised to find I was allowed to move back the ones I did. --Deskford (talk) 12:57, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Still quite a few articles moved by that haven't been returned to their original location. Here are some: Eilean Mòr (Loch Dunvegan), Eilean Mòr (Loch Langavat), Eilean Glas (Scalpay), East Loch Tarbert (Argyll), West Loch Tarbert (Argyll), Loch Tarber (Jura), Wiay (Uist), Papa (Shetland), Pabbay (Harris), Oronsay (Outer Hebrides), Oronsay (Loch Bracadale), Lamba (Shetland), Lingay (Fiaray), Langa (Shetland), Linga (Hildasay), Linga (Yell), Linga (Vementry), Linga (Vaila), Linga (Samphrey), Linga (Muckle Roe), Linga Sound (Shetland), Eas Mòr (upper), Eas Mòr (lower), Forsan (Shetland), Blae Loch (Beith), Lochlea (South Ayrshire), Lochend Loch (Coylton), Lindston Loch (South Ayrshire), Galrigs Loch (Ayrshire), Clevens Loch (Ayrshire), Loch o' th' Lowes (New Cumnock), Black Loch (New Cumnock), Holy Isle (Firth of Clyde), Hoy (Shetland), Ward Hill (Hoy), Càrn Dearg (Monadh Liath), Ben Vorlich (Loch Lomond), Uyea (Unst), Uyea (Northmavine), Little Holm (Yell Sound), Little Holm (Scatness), Muckle Holm (Yell Sound), Bigga (Shetland), Balta (Shetland), Fara (Orkney), Cava (Orkney), Harris (Scotland), Insh (Slate Islands), Soay (St Kilda), Lingeigh (North Uist), Flodday (Loch Maddy), Stroma (Scotland), Inner Sound (Scotland), River Carron (Sutherland), River Carron (Forth), River Devon (Clackmannanshire), River Esk (Lothian), River Tyne (Scotland), River Almond (Lothian), River Almond (Perth and Kinross), River Leven (Dunbartonshire), River Calder (Renfrewshire), River Tyne (Scotland), River Dee (Aberdeenshire), River Don (Aberdeenshire), Dorback Burn (Findhorn), River Isla (Moray), River Esk (Dumfries and Galloway), River Dee (Galloway), Douglas Water (Loch Fyne), Loch Fada (Colonsay), Loch Long (Highlands), Lake Louise (Skibo Castle), Fraoch Eilean (Loch Lomond), Meall Buidhe (Glen Lyon), Sandwick (Whalsay), Little Water (Whalsay). I hope we can make some progress with this. Drchriswilliams (talk) 16:00, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I think that's the list above dealt with now, pending a few requiring admin attention. Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:17, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * That's quite a list. I've moved two more back – Soay, St Kilda and Harris, Scotland – as I happened to come across them, but I don't have time to go systematically through the list. I notice in fact that Harris has been moved back and forth between Harris, Scotland and Harris, Outer Hebrides several times. I'm not sure which corresponds more closely to our naming convention. --Deskford (talk) 15:29, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
 * In regard to the time required to sort this all out, it's rather disappointing that the editor responsible appears to have plenty to carry out fresh edits but not to return here to clean up after themself. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:42, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
 * looks like Scalpay (Outer Hebrides) was another article moved in August but escaped the list above, can someone please move it back. Drchriswilliams (talk) 09:35, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Done. -- Cactus.man  &#9997;  13:52, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

I've just moved a few more back to where they were: Scarp, Scotland; Shillay, Monach Islands and Pabbay, Barra Isles. There are no doubt more still to be discovered. --Deskford (talk) 18:29, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I've done a few more. The user's move log ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&offset=20150701000000&limit=250&type=move&user=Hmains&page=&tagfilter= ) may be of use in identifying problematic moves which seem to have been made on 28 June2015 and before. -- Cactus.man  &#9997;  20:28, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Highland Clearances
There have been some changes in the last couple of weeks to Highland Clearances which may be valid but just a little poorly expressed and unfocused but they are largely uncited, a bit rambling, have a POV-y ring to them and some aspects seem factually questionable. I'm inclined to revert but would welcome other views. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:50, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

From The Doctor to my son Thomas - featured article candidate
I've nominated the article about the video From The Doctor to my son Thomas for Featured Article consideration.

The article is about a message sent from actor Peter Capaldi in-character in his role as the Doctor on Doctor Who, to console an autistic young boy over grief from the death of his grandmother.

Comments would be appreciated, at Featured article candidates/From The Doctor to my son Thomas/archive1.

Thank you for your time,

&mdash; Cirt (talk) 01:05, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Archived addressed threads
Archived addressed threads. Metric used was older than one (1) year, notices of deletion discussions since closed, notices of move discussions since closed, notices of meetups that already came and passed, etc. &mdash; Cirt (talk) 06:32, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Template:Scottish English
Scottish English has been nominated for deletion -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 06:53, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Goidelic languages listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Goidelic languages to be moved to Gaelic languages. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —  AjaxSmack  02:13, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Glaswegian—a dialect or an accent? And of which language?
Hi everyone! We're trying to define Glaswegian for Wiktionary, but aren't sure whether it's a dialect or an accent, and of which language—English or Scots. I was hoping that maybe the participants of this project could help. :)

The article on Glaswegian here on Wikipedia says that it's a dialect, but doesn't cite any sources, nor does it offer any arguments.

If it's a dialect, then the lexicon and grammar should differ considerably from the lexicon and grammar of whichever language it is a dialect of. So, if it's a dialect of Scots, it should be considerably different from Scots. It seems to me that it could either be a dialect of English, or an accent of Scots, but I haven't had enough exposure to Glaswegian to be sure.

Does anybody know the answer? Is there a scientific consensus? :)

All input is welcome! :) Pfftallofthemaretaken (talk) 20:03, 28 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Glaswegian is recognised as a dialect of the Scots language. Various reliable sources at Google Books search and recognized as one of four such dialects by the Scottish government. Haruth (talk) 14:44, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Serious Problems With Auld Lang Syne page
Auld=old, Lang=land, syne, ayne=own. Translation:Should (lest) old acquaintance be forgot and never brought to mind, we'll drink a cup of kindness, for the sake of the old lands own. This is referring to the diaspora. A toast for those who have left us (in Scotland) and traveled afar. Can somebody please sort this out? Exiled Scot.
 * Are you saying the article should say this? Do you have a source for this as it is not correct? Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:31, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Margaret McCulloch
Hi, Did anyone see this article, Revealed: the Labour MSP with a secret Tory past by Peter Swindon, in The Sunday Herald last Sunday? Part of the alleged conspiracy was that the Margaret McCulloch page had been edited to conceal this "secret shame". I looked into the history of the McCulloch page to see what was going on and I've written this in my Sandbox. And having done that I'm not sure what to do now. Edit the McCulloch page adding in the references and leave a message on the Talk page?? Thanks in advance.Flourbomb (talk) 18:33, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Too close to being an attack article?
Is it just me, or does this article on the SNP politician Paul_Monaghan look like an attack article? Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 18:35, 10 December 2015 (UTC)


 * It could be rewritten in a more neutral way, but neither the care home issue and the allegations of antisemitism should not be avoided just because they're a bit embarrassing. Have they been covered by media outlets that are a little more left-leaning/sympathetic to nationalists?  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  09:40, 11 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Media outlets sympathetic to nationalists? Haha. Yes, it could be written better, yes, but it looks like an attack piece because it is not balanced. The employment bit, for instance, is two paragraphs of attack, the first one of which is just innuendo. It's not so much just the issues in themselves, it's that they dominate the article. Also, the article has been heavily edited by an account the sole purpose of which seems to be to smear SNP politicians. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 16:08, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Dal Riata theory
Some material regarding theories about Dal Riata reappeared at Scottish Gaelic this morning. The matter had been discussed there before and removed per WP:FRINGE. I noticed that the editor had also made edits at Dál Riata but it turned out that rather than new additions the edits were reframing of existing material, which I removed, but there is further mention of the theory in the article. Should these remain? Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:15, 12 December 2015 (UTC)


 * This does not qualify as WP:Fringe. These particular edits are perhaps a little unbalanced, but Campbell is a respected authority on early medieval Scotland and there is no reason to remove them wholesale in this manner. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 20:26, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Category:Members of the Faculty of Advocates has been nominated for discussion
Category:Members of the Faculty of Advocates, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for renaming to Category:Scottish advocates. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:14, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of Jenna Fife for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Jenna Fife is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Jenna Fife until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. &mdash; Cirt (talk) 21:23, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Requests for Comment
Two RfCs are ongoing at WikiProject Boxing. The first concerns use of Flag icons in professional boxing record tables here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Boxing. The second concerns a proposed MOS for boxing articles Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Boxing, in particular whether UK should be added to locations in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Editors are invited to comment. Daicaregos (talk) 14:11, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Scots language wikipedia
I hereby invite anyone willing to take part in the Scots language wikipedia. Munci (talk) 18:42, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

GA Review of Scottish independence referendum, 2014
I am reviewing the good article nomination of the article Scottish independence referendum, 2014. The nominator is busy with other things at the moment and so I am looking for other editors to help improve the article to good article quality in the next few days. If you would like to help, please address some of the issues I raised in the review. Wugapodes (talk) 21:07, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Wilfred Hoare
Could someone please review this article for me. Many thanks.Gomach (talk) 11:43, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Human rights in the United Kingdom
Hello. I recently read a rather lengthy complaint from a Wikipedia reader (not a regular editor) that our article on Human rights in the United Kingdom deals almost exclusively with England, English history, and English law and ignores Scotland. I tagged the article for limited geographic scope, cleared up some links, and checked for lack of sources.

Could a member of WikiProject Scotland check the article and provide some input on the Scottish perspective of the subject? Dimadick (talk) 18:01, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Awaken the Dragon Edit-a-thon/Contest
Hi, can I interest anybody in contributing to a national edit-a-thon/contest for Wales in April, WikiProject Wales/Awaken the Dragon. You can win up to £200 worth of Amazon vouchers and books of your choice for entering the contest. The idea is that Amazon vouchers and books can then be used by people to buy/have discount off more books and produce more articles for wikipedia. The scoreboard will be kept here. However, if contests and prize aren't your cup of tea you're very welcome to participate in the edit-athon throughout the month. Everything will count and be added to a list at the bottom. We have a number of missing listed buildings identified and a core list at WikiProject Wales/Awaken the Dragon/Core articles. Already we have about 30 people interested but it would be great to see more get involved and producing content and really show what can be achieved in a month.The point of it is getting some of the core articles up to decent status and an overall improvement in quality. So if you generally work on military history or trains or whatever and you spot something which might interest you please consider working on it within the next six weeks! There is also a physical edit-athon at the National Library of Wales on April 22, see this for details. If it's a success there's no reason why a similar thing couldn't be run by somebody here for Scotland or a county of Scotland.♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:47, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Listed buildings in Scotland
I was up in Glasgow this weekend and took some photos of some interesting Victorian architecture...I'm sure many of these buildings are listed and was planning to upload some photos to Commons after identifying them. What I would do for English buildings would be to get the geo-tag from the photo and find the listing using the map search function on Historic England. However, I'm looking at Scotland's designations portal and it doesn't seem to have any type of geo search. Would anyone here know of any other resources to use? Kelly hi! 14:09, 7 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Try using PastMap http://pastmap.org.uk/ It will show a map of all listed buildings (or other designations). Very useful for finding and identifying historic buildings. Fuaran buidhe (talk) 00:31, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Trouble finding references? The Wikipedia Library is proud to announce ...
 The Wikipedia Library

There are up to 30 free one-year Alexander Street Press (ASP) accounts available to experienced Wikipedians through this partnership. To apply for free access, please go to WP:ASP.

Alexander Street Press is an electronic academic database publisher. Its "Academic Video Online: Premium collection" includes videos in a range of subject areas, including news programs (like 60 minutes) and newsreels, music and theatre, speeches and lectures and demonstrations, and documentaries. This collection would be useful for researching topics related to science, engineering, history, music and dance, anthropology, business, counseling and therapy, news, nursing, drama, and more. Cheers! 22:01, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Sutherland
There seems to be a bit of an edit war brewing at Sutherland, with the county town being switched back and forth between Dornoch and Bonar Bridge in the lead. In the body of the article there is a passing mention of Dornoch as county town, but also the statement that the county offices were in Golspie. None of this seems to be sourced. I'm not sure that the concept of a "county town" has much meaning today, but presumably it did prior to 1975. Can anyone help resolve this, preferably with a reliable source? --Deskford (talk) 19:30, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for highlighting this. Most recently I had reverted an unexplained, unsourced change after I saw the same editor had caused an error on different page. I now see the string of edits that preceded it (with no edit summaries to explain what they were up to). Searches throw up a number of historic sources to suggest Dornoch was the royal burgh and county town of Sutherland. An example of a recent source to corroborate this is in The Herald 1971. Drchriswilliams (talk) 19:52, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah, very good! Thanks for clarifying!  --Deskford (talk) 20:03, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I must admit that even without looking at the article, my gut feel was that "it's complicated" - for two reasons. One is that royal burghs were often enclaves of "foreigners", as much separated from the surrounding county as part of it. And Sutherland is a bit of a funny one in that the "county" is so closely associated with the dukedom, it's akin to a county palatine like Cheshire. In that situation, the ducal seat is more important than the "county town" inasmuch as the latter is a local connection to central government. One could draw a comparison with the Dutch situation of a separate "capital" versus seat of government, with Dunrobin/Golspie being equivalent to the Hague. So that would have been my immediate reaction before looking at the article or any references, and so I have some sympathy with the editor who is trying to downplay Dornoch (although involving Bonar is just odd, unless one is trying to claim some role for Carbisdale?). Certainly in that kind of grey area I would be wary of references outside official documents, I can well imagine Dornoch being referred to as the county town in the mass media even though it technically wasn't.Le Deluge (talk) 01:22, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Interesting! So if this is not a simple and clear-cut matter we probably shouldn't be presenting it as such in the lead. --Deskford (talk) 13:50, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't get me wrong, even if the dukedom reduces the importance of the "county town" there may well be good sources that say Dornoch is the clear-cut county town - it's just that I'd want an absolutely blue-chip reference rather than something based on "common knowledge". Le Deluge (talk) 14:07, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject Wales/Awaken the Dragon
Asking for people to get involved in producing for this. See the article list at the bottom. If it's a success I'll consider running a similar one for Scotland. If you want to see a similar thing happen to Scotland and mass improvement to your content contribute to Wales for a few weeks!♦ Dr. Blofeld  18:57, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Category:Scottish lochs with reported cryptids has been nominated for discussion
Category:Scottish lochs with reported cryptids, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 00:27, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Auto-assessment of article classes
Following a recent discussion at WP:VPR, there is consensus for an opt-in bot task that automatically assesses the class of articles based on classes listed for other project templates on the same page. In other words, if WikiProject A has evaluated an article to be C-class and WikiProject B hasn't evaluated the article at all, such a bot task would automatically evaluate the article as C-class for WikiProject B.

If you think auto-assessment might benefit this project, consider discussing it with other members here. For more information or to request an auto-assessment run, please visit User:BU RoBOT/autoassess. This is a one-time message to alert projects with over 1,000 unassessed articles to this possibility. ~ RobTalk 01:23, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Category:Scottish Science Hall of Fame has been nominated for discussion
Category:Scottish Science Hall of Fame, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:35, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Notice to participants at this page about adminship
Many participants here create a lot of content, have to evaluate whether or not a subject is notable, decide if content complies with BLP policy, and much more. Well, these are just some of the considerations at Requests for adminship.

So, please consider taking a look at and watchlisting this page:


 * Requests for adminship/Optional RfA candidate poll

You could be very helpful in evaluating potential candidates, and maybe even finding out if you would be a suitable RfA candidate.

Many thanks and best wishes,

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:24, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Category:Scottish Engineering Hall of Fame has been nominated for discussion
Category:Scottish Engineering Hall of Fame, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:59, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Scottish Engineering Hall of Fame
I have just been informed of a discussion - that already seems to have reached a conclusion without my input - about deletion of this category. I am somewhat baffled by some of the statements in the discussion (which had very few contributors) which don't seem to have been researched very well. eg "The youngest member died in 1986". There are four living members of the Hall of Fame. "If it had been a physical Hall of Fame I would have thought differently". Glasgow Kelvingrove museum has agreed to make it so - (ref http://www.engineeringhalloffame.org/index.html) The trade organisation "Scottish Engineering" also records new entrants. The annual dinner at which the new inductees are announced (the James Watt dinner) has approximately 400 attendees. This is very much an active enterprise, intended to inspire young people with role models from engineering, and it is expanded each year. Categories surely are intended to provide signposts to groups of related articles to encourage people to follow through and investigate and read related articles. I would contend that this is just as valid a category as any of the the other Science and Technology Halls of Fame (and removing it would be a poor outcome for Scottish interests in wikipedia profile, and a backward step for the visibility of Scottish Engineering achievements in Wikipedia). I do have a vested interest of course, but I was taken aback by the rapidity of the discussion being converted into a conclusion, and the equally rapid loss of opportunity for me to contribute to it. Not very inclusive I'm afraid and my enthusiasm for adding material to Wikipedia has diminished. Poor outcome for Scotland's coverage on Wikipedia. I have no idea how to go about appealing the "decision"! But I'd like to!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gordon Masterton (talk • contribs) 22:57, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I just saw this post and I encourage you to keep editing. Thank you for creating the Scottish Engineering Hall of Fame article; I think that was great and my only concern was with the corresponding category. WP:DEFINING provides a good overview of when to create categories (versus WP:N for articles) that I would encourage you to take a look at. But, if you want to proceed, the process for contesting deletions is located at WP:DRV. Happy editing! RevelationDirect (talk) 21:37, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Rescissory Act 1661
I think that there is confusion in the sources over what the Rescissory Act 1661 was. I have explain in detail what the problem is on the talk page (see Talk:Rescissory Act 1661, but in essence two acts became law on the same day (28 March 1661) and the sources that have been used seem to pick one or the other rather than discussing both and their joint impact. I think an expert on the subject of Scottish Restoration Law, or an experienced historian of the period would  be able to shine a light on the subject and improve the article greatly.

-- PBS (talk) 19:38, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Scots Observer, National Observer
The stub National Observer (UK) concerns a late 19th-century newspaper, originally Scots Observer of Edinburgh and later The National Observer of London. It doesn't say much, but enough to contradict the biography of one of its editor William Ernest Henley more than once on basic facts. See Talk:National Observer (UK).

More than half of the page as displayed is the navigation box Template:Defunct newspapers of the United Kingdom. Evidently the newspaper is not listed in the navbox (the word 'observer' does not appear). It should be listed there but I don't know where.

--P64 (talk) 17:51, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Gordon Ramsay
There is a permanent disagreement on Gordon Ramsay about the question if he is a "Scottish chef" or a "British chef". For quite some time an ugly compromise "Scottish born British chef" kept the dogs at bay.

Unfortunately, nobody is able or willing to answer the central question: how do you qualify as a Scotsman?

Maybe you guys can shine a light on it, either here or directly at Talk:Gordon Ramsay#What is Scottish?. Thanks in advance! The Banner talk 19:39, 28 August 2016 (UTC)


 * He is both. What does it matter?  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  20:43, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
 * That others are editwarring over it and I like to find a way to stop that. The Banner talk</i> 20:49, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I would tend to let them just get on with it. It doesn't really matter either way and keeps them occupied.  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  21:11, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Clan Duncan
There has been a series of removals of the image of the crest at the Clan Duncan article, in a similar style to a significant aspect of a disruptive campaign by User:Angelo542 and associated socks around a year or so ago. I've requested semi-protection but if some eyes could be turned to the article, that would be helpful. Mutt Lunker (talk) 14:10, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

The 10,000 Challenge
Hi there. I've started a new initiative, the The 10,000 Challenge. It's a long term goal to bring about 10,000 article improvements to the UK and Ireland. Through two contests involving just six or seven weeks of editing so far we've produced over 1500 improvements. Long term if we have more people chipping it and adding articles they've edited independently as well from all areas of the UK then reaching that target is all possible. I think it would be an amazing achievement to see 10,000 article improvements by editors chipping in with whatever area of the British Isles or subject that they work on. If you support this and think you might want to contribute towards this long term please sign up in the Contributors section. No obligations, just post work on anything you feel like whenever you want, though try to avoid basic stubs if possible as we're trying to reduce the overall stub count and improve general comprehension and quality. Thanks.♦ Dr. Blofeld  13:47, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Category:Lords of Parliament has been nominated for discussion
Category:Lords of Parliament, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:06, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

How did scotland get its name
My Daughter just got back from Greese and in the mountains she met an old lady that said that scotland got its name a long time ago when the greeks visited the land before time called the land skotina witch means ( dark = or land of clouds) dark is not used in an evil way but referres to the lands skys.24.163.139.249 (talk) 00:04, 10 September 2016 (UTC)


 * See the articles about Etymology of Scotland and Scoti. As it is says, the etymology is unclear. Though there is one theory with a Greek connection: More recently, Philip Freeman has speculated on the likelihood of a group of raiders adopting a name from an Indo-European root, *skot, citing the parallel in Greek skotos (σκότος), meaning "darkness, gloom". But that doesn't necessarily mean any Greek visited the land. --Fuaran buidhe (talk) 17:50, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Undiscussed blanket move applied to Roman Catholicism in Scotland
A discussion at Talk: Roman Catholicism in Armenia, requesting a move to Catholic Church in Armenia, was widened to include a large but not all-inclusive list of similarly-titled articles, regarding other countries. The result was to move and to apply to all similarly-named articles, including ones not listed at the discussion. Roman Catholicism in Scotland was one of the articles not added to the list for discussion and the imposition of the decision at the Armenian article contradicts an earlier, separate discussion at the Scotland article. The article name has now been changed to Catholic Church in Scotland and what's more, the decision is being used as a rationale to change the text of the article. I have objected at the Armenia article at this blanket application. I'm not taking a view as to which title would be correct or best but the fact that a decision about one set of articles is being extended as a fait accompli to a wider set of articles, interested editors for which have not been consulted or had a chance to have input. Some of you may have strong views on the wording, or indeed the way the decision has been imposed. Mutt Lunker (talk) 09:24, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Infoboxes.
Recommend creation of Scottish National Party depute leadership election, year articles, so as not to be confused with the existing Scottish National Party leadership election, year articles. GoodDay (talk) 00:39, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Suggested improvements to WikiProject Scotland page
I recommend the inclusion of a banner and a header to the WikiProject Scotland page, along the same lines as WikiProject Military history. Anyone interested in creating a logo for the Project? Regards Newm30 (talk) 00:33, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages
Greetings Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:


 * Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, — Delivered: 18:07, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

RFC on tennis player Andy Murray (Scottish/British)
There is an ongoing RfC to determine whether Andy Murray is a Scottish or British tennis player. Please lend a hand at the Andy Murray British tennis player or Scottish tennis player RfC. Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:39, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

William Lawrie
Would anyone like to help expand the article on William Lawrie, in particular using this source - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b083gz1h - as I don't speak Gaelic? Best, Ostrichyearning (talk) 17:28, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Photographs of archaeological objects from Scotland, found by members of the public in England and Wales
In recent weeks, 400,000 images of finds in England and Wales, logged and photographed by the Portable Antiquities Scheme, have been uploaded to Commons. Several hundred of the objects originate in Scotland.

They are now ready for further categorisation on Commons, and use in Wikipedia articles.

Please see this note on Commons and the project page there. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:54, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Clydebank
I'm looking to get some views on what areas should be classed as being part of Clydebank, if anyone would like to add their tuppence worth here. Jellyman (talk) 13:13, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Enthusiastic, prolific editor, but...
There is an enthusiastic, prolific and good faith editor making numerous edits to Scotland related articles, largely or all marked as WP:MINOR but rarely actually so. Many are questionable and I have tackled them on one major aspect at their talk page but they have not been receptive and the dialogue has taken a somewhat obscure and bizarre turn. Another example is their major revisions at the Dunoon article, which seem to be of varying quality and notability. From their talk page they have already been contacted about problematic aspects of this article but are carrying on with major edits to it. They clearly appear to be of good faith but overall their edits seem to be of poor quality and their profilic actions unintentionally damaging. I'm unlikely to be in a position to do much about it currently so some scrutiny of their edits, any necessary remedial action and assistance in communicating the problematic nature of aspects of their editing would be appreciated. Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:29, 29 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Another enthusiastic and forthright editor has been making good faith but rather erratic edits to some Scotland-related articles (some good, some misconceived) and their talk pages edits show some fundamental misconceptions. These would benefit from some oversight and assistance for the editor, with their edits and understanding. The editor has not been very positively receptive to comments thus far. The articles I’ve had a look at are Scottish people and its talk page and Scottish national identity. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:53, 7 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Ai. I just think that statements should be referenced, is all. I have attempted a couple of times to talk to but he just reverted an edit to put back the questioned statement and told me I didn't seem to know much ;) It's true that if the Republic of Ireland is part of the United Kingdom I don't know about it ;) but the sources I am looking at say otherwise and this is what we call biting the newbies. Except I am not a newbie and I still want to see a reference ;) Anyway, Hi, y'all, just passing through but I had to "(look) an' laughs at a' that" :)  "He's but a coof for a' that," lol is what I say. I am actually usually not in Scottish topics, but if I do edit some text over here into an error, just show me a reference senor, no need to go through the portal to talk to me ;) I am actually quite easy to talk to. Extensive annotation on the talk page, if anyone wants to look at what I did. Elinruby (talk) 12:12, 7 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Neither the article, myself nor anyone else involved are saying that the Republic of Ireland is part of the United Kingdom and there is no ambiguity about this in the article or talk pages. I have tried to explain to you but can't see the source of your continued confusion about this so am at a loss. Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:37, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I too am uncertain why this is hard. You had a section entitled "United Kingdom" in the section you had a poorly-constructed sentence that said that there were Scottish people in other parts of the United Kingdom, such as the Republic of Ireland and especially Ulster, where bla bla something about the planters. Or something very like that. The other parts of the United Kingdom bit is true; the part about Ulster is true afaik. I am not at all confused; just trying to point out that while there may well be people of Scottish descent in the Republic of Ireland -- in fact there most likely *are* -- the Republic of Ireland is however not part of the United Kingdom. That is all. If you remove the Republic of Ireland from the section it no longer implies otherwise. I suggest putting Ireland someplace else, or putting it in its own section. The fact that I am trying to edit your prose does not imply that I am confused.Elinruby (talk) 09:03, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Elinruby is referring to the Scottish people article here, I believe. Per the talk page, you keeping misquoting the article and arguing against your misquote: it says "other parts of the United Kingdom and in the Republic of Ireland" not "such as the Republic of Ireland". I'm not going to engage in a never-ending argument about whether the moon is made of green cheese: the article does not say that it is.
 * Also per your "you had" and "your prose", you seem to be under the impression that I wrote the article in its entirety. I have made edits to the article but not contributed significantly to its overall substance and certainly did not write the sections you are focussing on. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:02, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Dunoon needs some help
The aforementioned enthusiastic but inexperienced editor has put a massive amount of work into Dunoon, but it now needs some help from editors more experienced in writing about Scottish settlemennts. Perhaps someone here would like to give it a go? The lead section reads like a tourist information leaflet, there's probably far too much detail of only-local interest (names of GP practices?), etc. And there's no real history of the town, just a bit about the castle. Someone with access to good sources could make a great difference. Pam D  10:16, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * As there are two editors mentioned in this thread and I've just posted re the other one, I'll just clarify that this thread regards, who is at the moment making copious enthusiastic but potentially problematic edits to a variety of articles. is on the case but may appreciate a hand with giving the user some guidance. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:13, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * This editor ceased activities for a while but is now highly active once again, clearly still enthusiastic but again often making poor quality or problematic edits. Mutt Lunker (talk) 21:23, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Auto-archiving talk pages with the effect of blanking crtical current threads
This user has been regularly wiping their own talk page of critical comments; legitimate but it fits with the general uncooperative and unreceptive nature shown. As of yesterday they have been adding ClueBot III to a variety of article talk pages, initially set with a zero age parameter so that it will archive threads of any age, including current ones, many critical of their editing and behaviour. After a few hours, when the bot has effectively blanked the page, the user has returned to add a non-zero parameter to arrest the instant archiving of any future posts and restore some function to the page. (It's a side issue but, if my understanding is correct, the value that they are adding is in hours, so 100 is still inappropriately short). I have reverted a few of their wholesale archivings and set a realistic parameter for the bot (2160 hours/90 days) but there are many I haven't addressed and I have no further time to continue currently. I have posted regarding this on their talk page (but that won't last long as it is set for instant archiving) and have asked them to reverse the earlier wholesale archiving on article talk pages and install a realistic paramater but I am not confident of a positive response. If others could investigate the results on the remaining talk pages affected by the editor's editing yesterday and install a suitable age parameter, I'd be grateful. Mutt Lunker (talk) 01:20, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I think I've completed checks on the articles affected and altered the archiving age parameter to 90 days in each case. I don't think any further current talk threads had been prematurely archived in these cases. Mutt Lunker (talk) 08:27, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The advice at WP:ARCHIVE is clear: "Make sure to establish consensus before setting up lowercase sigmabot III or ClueBot III on a talk page other than your user talk page." Springchickensoup has clearly not followed this. Drchriswilliams (talk) 12:21, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I undid a number of Springchickensoup's edits to the talkpagebots, but I've just noticed a problem. For some reason a couple of the talkpages are linking to the archives of Talk:Cowal (for example Talk:Highland games at the moment). I tried fixing the same problem on Talk:Scottish clan, with this edit, but at the moment it is still linking to the Cowal archives.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 02:26, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks BM. Would it be better to revert back to the edits prior to SCS's addition of Cluebot III, i.e. versions prior to 23rd February? I can see a case for having functional auto-archiving at these articles but none of these bot additions were discussed, the motivation for some were blatant obscuring of criticism and if others are not functioning properly in regard to linking and most likely in regard to archiving any future threads, restoring the discussions to the talk page would seem preferable. Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:27, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't have a problem with that. None of the talkpages are all that busy anyway.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 01:13, 27 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if this is a one-off or will apply to all SCS's talk page additions of ClueBot III auto-archiving but this strange bot edit may indicate a significant and wider problem. Although apparently set to archive threads after 2160 hours/90 days, the bot has not only archived a comment that is only a few hours old but has archived its own presence on the talk page (consequently halting future archiving, presumably) plus any links to the article's talk page archives; effectively blanking the page and any record of its past. I've rolled back to the edit prior to the addition of the bot, so this page should be rectified. I don't know if the previous edit's placement above the bot template has somehow instigated the bot's subsequent strange action but if that bot action is replicated on other talk pages, the result could be an effective blanking of all talk pages to which SCS added the bot. Can anyone tell if this is a one-off or likely to apply to all articles subject to SCS's bot archiving additions? If the latter, even more reason to roll back the lot. Yet more mess to assess and unpick... Mutt Lunker (talk)


 * Yeah, I'm totally in favour of reverting them back.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 02:01, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Excessive navigation templates
I have encountered further problematic editing patterns today. is adding a large number of navigation templates to articles about settlements in Argyll and Bute. Many of these templates are unrelated to the articles and I consider them excessive. I began to revert these and explained my reasoning but Springchickensoup is simply reinstating these. I tried raising it on their talk page but I haven't managed to get a constructive response. Drchriswilliams (talk) 10:07, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

ANI discussion
I don't think it has been noted here that there is a related ANI discussion. Mutt Lunker (talk) 16:09, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Merge suggestion Bridgeton / Bridgeton Cross
I have stuck a merge proposal onto Bridgeton, Glasgow suggesting that the Bridgeton Cross article be merged into it. As I have stated in the talk page (here), a lot of the information is duplicated and there seems little point in the most famous landmark of the area having its own article when the main page ('mid importance' in this project) is pretty weak at present and contains images relating to the Cross. Comments welcome either here or on the Talk page. Thanks. Crowsus (talk) 23:26, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Recent move of Angus
Could I please ask an uninvolved editor to look over the recent sequence of events around the move of Angus to Angus, Scotland?
 * diff A user proposed the move, initially to Angus City Council.
 * diff After much discussion, the matter was closed as "No Consensus".
 * diff Two of the editors who had been arguing for the move then canvassed the editor who had closed the discussion, asking him to change the outcome in favour of the move.
 * diff The closing editor then changed the outcome and performed the move to Angus, Scotland.

It seems there are a number of problems here. Firstly, once the discussion had been closed as "No Consensus" it should not have been reopened without a formal review. Secondly, involved editors should not have canvassed for a change in outcome. Thirdly, the editor should not have changed the outcome in response to canvassing, though I can understand him feeling under pressure as a relatively new editor. This move has left a number of inconsistencies, broken templates and the like, and we now have the article on the primary topic at Angus, Scotland, even though the category Category:Angus and its subcategories still use the undisambiguated name. It seems to me we should restore the original "No Consensus" close, but I am an involved editor, having expressed opinions in the original discussion. --Deskford (talk) 14:17, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Edinburgh railway station
I have initiated a discusssion about this "disambiguation" page, which I think should become a redirect, here. Jellyman (talk) 06:33, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report
We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, will post at /Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of. We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:
 * The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
 * The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
 * The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to for his original, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

James Heappey
The sitting Conservative MP, who is standing for re-election, has been involved in a controversy relating to comments he made at a school during a discussion on Scotland. The affair has been reported in several broadsheets, and has drawn in two party leaders.

The article's coverage of the incident has been repeatedly removed by single-purpose accounts and IPs, and at my request the page is now semi-protected for 2 weeks.

However, it is not being watched by many editors. Please can some members of this project keep an eye on it? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:23, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

"Politics of..." vs. stand-alone council articles
Is there a policy or school of thought concerning information of Scottish councils? I've been editing the pages for Glasgow City Council and Aberdeen City Council but have noticed there aren't separate pages for Edinburgh or Dundee, which is instead covered by their respective "Politics of..." pages (Dundee's for example).

Which in people's opinions is the better style? Personally I think it makes sense to have a separate article for the council as a body to cover current political structure, wards, etc. and keep a "Politics of" for historical background and general political information (such as current MPs/MSPs/MEPs for the area). — <b style="color: Teal">Mouldy</b><b style="color: OrangeRed">Fox</b> (talk)  10:19, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
 * To add a couple of things, this discussion should also cover articles that appear to cover both geographical areas and its politics, such as East Dunbartonshire.


 * And if the consensus is for council bodies to have a page separate from geographical areas, I think the template infobox Scotland council area should be reviewed or a modified copy be created to better represent the key points about councils, rather than a collection of general details. (For example, current political composition.) — <b style="color: Teal">Mouldy</b><b style="color: OrangeRed">Fox</b> (talk)  14:24, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Abbey Yard
This unsourced substub contains exactly the sama data the list of locations does. Please add one reference.Xx236 (talk) 06:27, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
 * It's not at all clear what kind of location this might be. At the coordinates given there is nothing apparent on the OS map, though a couple of km further north the OS 1:25000 map shows three clusters of buildings each separately labelled "Abbey Yard". None of them looks like a notable settlement. They just appear to be a few houses along the road between the villages of Glenlochar, for which we have an article, and Townhead of Greenlaw, for which we have no article though it's mentioned under Crossmichael. Geograph has one image that doesn't appear to show much of note. The Roman fort and 10th-century abbey at this location are mentioned under Glenlochar and could potentially be covered in greater depth in that article. --Deskford (talk) 11:51, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Addendum: I've now corrected the coordinates in the stub article. I notice that the editor who created the article appears to have been inactive for more than a year, so probably won't be able to help us. I feel a redirect to Glenlochar may be in order. --Deskford (talk) 13:30, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Abbey Yard is the alternative/local name given to the site of old Roman fort(s) at that location. It was mis-identified as being an abbey (and that should probably be corrected in the Glenlochar article). See here on Canmore and here on Historic Environment for details.

Scotland station disambiguation RM
I've started a discussion on Scotland station disambiguation here to try and find consensus for making disambiguation methods more consistent. The input of knowledgeable editors would be valuable. Thanks,--Cúchullain t/ c 17:16, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Scottish Financial Enterprise


The article Scottish Financial Enterprise has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "failure to address unreferenced material and reads similar to more of an advertisement then actually an article"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. BSOleader (talk) 21:55, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Reliable source? Template:Rayment, Rayment-hc, Rayment-bt, Rayment-pc etc
A discussion is taking place about whether a series of templates used to generate references to the work of Leigh Rayment fall within Wikipedia's content guideline to use reliable sources, or alternatively whether they should be deprecated and tagged with Self-published source and/or Better source.


 * Rayment, used on 2595 pages
 * Rayment-hc, used on 6019 pages
 * Rayment-bt, used on 2184 pages
 * Rayment-pc, used on 6 pages
 * Rayment-bd, used on 23 pages

These templates are used for referencing over 10,000 articles relating to the House of Commons of England, the House of Commons of Ireland, the House of Commons of England, the House of Commons of Great Britain, the House of Commons of the United Kingdom, and the peerages and baronetcies of the islands of Ireland and Great Britain.

Since whatever decision is made will effect so many articles, I am notifying the following WikiProjects of this discussion: WP:WikiProject England, WP:WikiProject Ireland, WikiProject Northern Ireland, WikiProject Scotland, WikiProject United Kingdom, and WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom.

Your comments would be welcome, but please post them at WT:WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage, so that your contribution can be weighed as part of the discussion. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:17, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

A-Class review for RAF Lossiemouth needs attention
A few more editors are needed to complete the A-Class review for RAF Lossiemouth; please stop by and help review the article! Thanks! AustralianRupert (talk) 05:53, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Grammar error introducer and dubious MOS campaigner
, also editing under IPs and (possibly amongst others) has been making numerous edits, some of which may make minor improvements, most no better than neutral but probably the majority making dubious or actively deprecated WP:MOS changes. The bulk of these edits are to Scotland-related articles but also more widely to UK ones. One particular favourite is to incorrectly change instances of "its" to "it's". I, and some other editors, have attempted engagement with them, in edit summaries and on user and IP talk pages, without response or compliance. Although their edits may be well intentioned, they are sufficiently prodigious that it takes considerable effort to sort the borderline wheat from the chaff and, coupled with their lack of engagement, I am now minded to treat their edits as broadly disruptive. I have also informed them that their editing effectively under multiple identities may be interpreted as socking, particularly in the light of their questionable and questioned editing. I notice there is a new batch of edits under the user name and the second IP and will not have a chance to globally revert them, let alone check their validity to retain any that may be positive. Could others keep a watchful eye and take any necessary action please? Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:21, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Sometimes well-intentioned editors can be more disruptive and problematic than straightforward vandals. I don't think I've come across this editor – his areas of interest don't seem to have much overlap with mine – but from a quick look at his talk page and his recent contributions I can see there is an issue. Significantly, he doesn't seem to have made any attempt to communicate. As far as I can see, his only post on any kind of discussion page was this rather vague question at the Teahouse. He has not commented on anything on his talk page, nor has he responded to being pinged here. And his edit summaries are almost all "Add" or "Typo", neither of which is very helpful. Since you and others have tried to communicate with him, to no avail, we must conclude that he is unwilling or unable to communicate, and that compromises his ability to work in a cooperative environment like Wikipedia. It may be best just to revert all his edits without worrying too much about wheat and chaff – his edits should perhaps all be regarded as unreliable. WP:COMPETENCE may apply in this case. --Deskford (talk) 21:06, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Fair comment. I'd forgotten to check if this editor had remained active and they have, very. I've just checked a few recent edits, reverting some in the process but not systematically. There is a vast amount to deal with, even if they are reverted on sight without expending time to check them. Is it possible to instigate an automated mass revert of the user's edits? Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:20, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I've posted on the user's talk page about this discussion, the terms in which their editing is being viewed and the potential consequences should they fail to engage. If they persist, and I can devote the time, I may start reverting on sight. I'd request that other editors also engage in the considerable task of remedying any problems the editor has introduced. Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:26, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Maps to use in Scottish local elections
Please see this disscussion Barryob   (Contribs)   (Talk)  02:45, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Improvement request for input for South Ayrshire
There is currently a push to attempt to improve the article South Ayrshire, and input from other editors in-particular those from this project is welcomed. The article is one of a number of similar articles, and it is hoped that this article can act as a standard for others in a similar vein, for being able to improve them all. Is it currently stands the article has a number of big issues, the largest being sourcing were as it stands over 85% of all sources are a primary source. There is also a lot of lists on the page, and a significant amount of over-detail of non-notable information. Thank you for your time. Sport and politics (talk) 08:52, 26 August 2017 (UTC)