Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Archive 2012

Ging gang goolie, origin (Robert Baden-Powell) a myth? Yes, presumably so!
Do join the discussion on this and other possible myths re "Ging gang goolie" at

Talk:Ging_Gang_Goolie

Brommabo (talk) 13:18, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Anniversary
WikiProject Scouting is six years old today! ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:51, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice catch! Happy anniversary everyone, and thank you for all of your hard work!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 03:44, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool! Thanks to y'all and everyone who has helped. North8000 (talk) 10:16, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Membership update
Please stroll over to WP:S-MEM and indicate that you are still active by moving your name to the Active 2012 list. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 16:56, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

John Thurman
I have been doing some work to expand this page but have hit a brick wall. Does anybody know Thurman's "entry and exit" dates? It might also help to locate an obituary in an old copy of Scouting Magazine (UK). Unusually, Mr Google and his elves have failed me on this, but perhaps I'm not asking them the right questions. Any help would be appreciated. Also, I have listed all the books I could find that he wrote; please let me know if I've missed any. Alansplodge (talk) 17:37, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If you are in UK, as I assume you are, why not ring up Gilwell and ask them for the dates and a source. Another idea is that there may have been an obituary in a major UK newspaper like the Times. Gilwell may know about that. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  21:57, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Good point. I'll give it a try. Alansplodge (talk) 01:47, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

great start of an article
There's a great start of an article at User:Yokohama1/sandbox, I'd like to move it into mainspace soon. Could you all please take a look and tweak what you see necessary? 有難うございます!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 02:39, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I will check. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:43, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The content looks great. It needs references. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:45, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Frederick Russell Burnham TFA
Frederick Russell Burnham will be the Featured Article on February 6 9. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 18:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool, one of my favorites, and I am glad you are still submitting these for FA!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 00:27, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Removed from the main page early due to issues with plagiarism. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 17:40, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's History Month
Hi everyone. March is Women's History Month and I'm hoping a few folks here at WP:Scouting will have interest in putting on events (on and off wiki) related to women's roles in scouting (Girl Guides, Girl Scouts, etc). We've created an event page on English Wikipedia (please translate!) and I hope you'll find the inspiration to participate. These events can take place off wiki, like edit-a-thons, or on wiki, such as themes and translations. Please visit the page here: WikiWomen's History Month. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to seeing events take place! SarahStierch (talk) 20:52, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Philmont geographic features and Rayado Program merge
Discussion for merging Mt Baldy, Mt Phillips, the Tooth of Time, and Urraca Mesa into the Location and geography section as well as Rayado Program into the Rayado Program subsection of Philmont Scout Ranch is now on the Philmont Scout Ranch talk page here and here. ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 20:02, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up and efforts. North8000 (talk) 03:25, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

FAR
nominated Frederick_Russell_Burnham for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:03, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I guess we need to slog through all of the FAs for copy vios. -- Guerillero &#124;  My Talk  15:50, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Obit for former Chief Scout of Ireland
http://www.scouts.ie/news/article/death_of_former_chief_scout_peter_dixon_-_updated-433.html --Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 02:06, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

POV/advocacy issues on SCOUT eh!
Hello, I came across the article SCOUT eh! while on a routine prod patrol and found a page that appears to be used as an advocacy page for the subject organization. I edited the article due to BLP issues that I outlined on the talk page, but I think the larger POV issue should be dealt with by someone with more experience/expertise in this area. If I was to edit this article to remove all NPOV it would be a stub. There also appear to be some ownership and maybe COI issues here as well. Thanks for any help you guys could provide. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 15:54, 2 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Looks to me like a knowledgeable member of the organization trying to write it objectively from personal knowledge. So, it's short on references, missing the opposite viewpoint in what is obviously a clash, and also uses a lot of internal jargon (for positions etc.) without defining it.  But, all of those things aside, it doesn't appear to be too bad or blatantly POV.  North8000 (talk) 16:44, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

AfD nomination - SCOUT eh!
The article has been nominated for AfD (for the second time). Can be found on the March 2nd listings. DiverScout (talk) 09:57, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

What are these articles about?
I am extremely confused trying to figure out what the articles Girl Scouts, Girl Guides and Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting, not to mention Scout (Scouting), are each supposed to be about, and why they are all separate articles. (I haven't looked at any of the articles about boy scouts.) When I came to this talk page and saw the table up top, I thought that would explain it, but... it doesn't. I came into the topic via a search that indicated the hatnote(s) at Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting needed some cleanup, but I have no idea how to clean it up.

I might have an interest myself in taking the content of these articles and reorganizing them in some way that would make sense to me, but I didn't want to do that without first asking here what the intent is supposed to be. Theoldsparkle (talk) 14:53, 13 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is a bit confusing, but have all thought long and hard and can not come up with any better. Let me describe them in reverse order. Scout (Scouting) is about the Scout section, that is not about Cubs, Beavers, Explorer Scouts, Rover Scouts etc., for organization mainly in WOSM but several other international groupings. Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting is a similar article for the section in WOGGGS. Read the lead. It talks about members in a specific age group. Girl Guides is about the movement founded by Lady B-P originally for girls only. Girl Scouts is a general disambigation page. Before you try to improve this, you need to understand the problem. I suggest you continue to discuss it here. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  21:04, 13 March 2012 (UTC)


 * These are the universal articles: Age groups in Scouting and Guiding, Air Scout, Beavers (Scouting), Cub Scout, Sea Scout, Girl Guides, Lone Scouts, Rover Scout, Scout (Scouting), Venture Scout, Extension Scouting, Brownie (Girl Guides), Girl Guides, Lone Guides. Rainbow (Girl Guides), Ranger (Girl Guide). ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 17:24, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

.

Neal Manufacturing Company slides
The gallery Neal Manufacturing Company slides is on the commons. --evrik (talk) 15:15, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Greater Michigan Council
For various reasons, units of the Boy Scouts of America in Michigan have experienced a massive drop in membership. Thus, nine councils have voted to merge into the Greater Michigan Council. The council will have four field service councils, which will then be divided into traditional districts. Although using different terms, this will follow the precedent of the Greater New York Councils which comprises five boroughs.

The FSCs will be:


 * A Gerald R. Ford Council and Scenic Trails Council merged into President Gerald R. Ford Field Service Council
 * B Lake Huron Area Council, Blue Water Council, Tall Pine Council and Chief Okemos Council merged into Water & Woods Field Service Council
 * C Southwest Michigan Council and Great Sauk Trail Council merged into Southern Shores Field Service Council
 * D Great Lakes Council renamed to Great Lakes Field Service Council

FSCs B and C should have names by the end of the month.

Each of the FSCs has one current article, with the others being sections of the Scouting in Michigan article. The question is what do we do:
 * Merge all into one Greater Michigan Council
 * Merge the councils into four FSC articles with a Greater Michigan Council overview.
 * Leave Greater Michigan Council in Scouting in Michigan with separate FSC articles

Hiawathaland Council is expected to merge into Bay-Lakes Council by the end of February. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 00:09, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

So there are currently 9 council articles covering the councils that will be a part of the Greater Michigan Council. Each has a lot of content and is wp:notable. To me trying to merge all of that into one article would result in an immense loss of material. So, IMHO, having 4 FSC articles and one Greater Michigan Council has the best hope of preserving the content. But the details of the merger will affect how complicated this gets. For example, will the camps still be associated with / operated by the individual FSC's (vs just the Greater Michigan Council directly)? If not, then, for example, all of that material on the camps would probably need to get moved out of the individual articles. North8000 (talk) 02:03, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I would move the camps to the FSC articles initially and see how it plays. Service centers, camps and lodges will shake out over time. I updated Scouting in Michigan so we have an idea of the structure. We currently have four articles (marked with *) and five redirects to Scouting in Michigan (we either have an article or a redirect for all 295 councils). ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 02:26, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * All FSC articles created. Now 287 councils. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 00:14, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

WOSM/WAGGGS by population
Scouting Round the World has an extra statistic in it we lack-membership numbers as percentage of population. Can we create an extra column in the organization lists that would generate this? What does everyone think?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 23:52, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not clear precisely what you are talking about but it sounds good. North8000 (talk) 01:03, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Like http://www.scout.org/en/information_events/library/membership_growth/membership_report_2011 ? Don't forget, this only lists the WOSM-membership-numbers of the NSO's --Egel Reaction? 07:51, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't include this. We would have to calculate most of the numbers ourselves; that's in my eyes very close to original research. The information is also of questionable value: The pure percentage does not mirror the different national circumstances (eg Scouting as part of the curriculum in some Asian countries). --jergen (talk) 08:36, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree. We should give an overview, interested readers can go to the source. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 10:27, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Jergen's right, and having read Egel's source at WOSM, the "market share" and "‘crunching’ the numbers" jargon gave me the creeps-thought we were a youth movement, not a business.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 15:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Indian Guides
For some reason, the YMCA is being followed by this project. I do not see the relevance, unless it is due to the Indian Guides. In my youth in the US in the 60's, the Indian Guides were somewhat the opposite of the Scouts. Many people were against the para-military nature of Scouting programs and enrolled their children in Indian Guides as an alternative. Gtwfan52 (talk) 06:25, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Rather loosely related other youth organisations are covered by this project, partly because no other project covers them, These include for example the Boys Brigade, Woodcraft Folk, Heritage Girls and many others. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  08:49, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The YMCA had Scout troops before the BSA was formed and was heavily involved in the formation of the BSA. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 08:39, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Please see Template_talk:Should_be_SVG regarding. --ben_b (talk) 04:00, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Guides International Service
Can someone have a look at this new article, written by a user I presume to be B-P's grand-daughter. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  22:16, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not familiar with the AFC process. Looks like it needs a few external links turned into references and then it will be good to go as a stub. North8000 (talk) 01:07, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I changed a couple external links into references. I think it's ready to go up as a stub.  But I'd have to go back to college to figure out how to do that reviewer process.  :-) North8000 (talk) 01:29, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It got turned down as "too little content" North8000 (talk) 14:29, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I somewhat moved it to girl guides as suggested in the turn-down (not including external links).   Still could use more external links turned into references. North8000 (talk) 15:42, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Can/would someone explain to me what's happening with this article? I have more information I could add, but I'm unhappy to go ahead when I don't understand what the implications of declined by a reviewer are. I've created pages before, but not for a while. Has the process changed? Kingbird (talk) 15:13, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I do not think the process has changed. It has just been added to. We can still start articles as before, but in this case after review has rejected it, that would be a mistake at this time. It is now a section at Girl Guides. I suggest you add your material with sources. If the section grows too large there will be an reason to fork off an article. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  21:09, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I have made Guides International Service a redirect to that section of Girl Guides. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  21:14, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I think I see the path forwards with this subject. Kingbird (talk) 14:16, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Niaz M. Khan
The above article has been proded, may be of interest to this project. J04n(talk page) 08:35, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Earlier, it had been made into a redirect to Pakistan Boy Scouts Association, which I thought was sensible as it had no references. It could always be recreated if the section there on him got too long. I did some clean up after the redirect. I support the prod for deletion (Sorry, Chris). -- Bduke   (Discussion)  11:09, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

List of Eagle Scouts: Today's Featured List
I have submitted List of Eagle Scouts for Today's Featured List on August 20, 2012; the first award of the Eagle Scout Award was August 21, 1912. See Today's featured list/submissions.

I have done a lot of maintenance on the article and it is in good shape. The TFL blurb could use some work. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:05, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Approved for August 20. Today's featured list/August 20, 2012 ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 01:53, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

 

Eagle Scout is the highest rank attainable in the Boy Scouting program division of the Boy Scouts of America (BSA). Since it was first awarded to Arthur Eldred (pictured) on August 21, 1912, Eagle Scout has been earned by more than two million young men. As of 2012, requirements include earning at least 21 merit badges, demonstrating Scout Spirit, leadership, service and performing an Eagle Scout Service Project. Eagle Scouts are presented both a medal and badge that visibly recognize the accomplishments of the Scout. Eagle Palms are a further recognition, awarded for completing additional tenure, leadership and merit badge requirements. The Distinguished Eagle Scout Award (DESA) is bestowed to Eagle Scouts for nationally renowned distinguished service in their profession and to the community for a period of at least 25 years after earning the Eagle Scout rank. The National Eagle Scout Association Outstanding Eagle Scout Award is bestowed to Eagle Scouts who have distinguished themselves at a local-to-regional level or who have not yet met the 25 year tenure requirement to be considered for a DESA.

Scout Camp a National Registered Historic Place
Not many scout camps are a NRHP...here's a draft of one that is: User:PumpkinSky/Camp Paxson Boy Scout Camp. Feel free to directly edit the draft. Soon I'll move it to article space. Pumpkin Sky  talk  19:39, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool. North8000 (talk) 11:49, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Scouts Royale Brotherhood
Scouts Royale Brotherhood has been recreated. It was deleted at AfD in 2010, recreated and then speedy deleted. It was flagged for speedy deletion yesterday and then deleted a couple of hours ago. That version still had no good sources. Prior to that I copied the content and talk page to user space at User:Wakowako/Scouts Royale Brotherhood and User:Wakowako/Scouts Royale Brotherhood. It certainly needs work if it is to return to article space. I informed the user at User talk:Wakowako. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  01:42, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Philmont Homesick Blues
I've been trying without luck to find the song we used to sing at Philmont. I can find chants, but this was an actual song. It's sung to the tune of London Homesick Blues by Gary P. Nunn, used to be the themesong to Austin City Limits. Anyone else know what I am talking about?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 13:29, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

article-worthy?
http://www.religiontoday.com/blog/girl-scouts-allow-7-year-old-boy-to-join.html Is this real, and is it notable?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 02:40, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It is real and has enough secondary coverage from all sides. I think that it should be mentioned in Scouting_controversy_and_conflict. --Egel Reaction? 08:03, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It is already mentioned in Girl Scouts of the USA: No official stand on sexuality and gender issues. ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 11:04, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Featured article review
I have nominated Scout Association of Hong Kong for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 18:05, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Feedback
Your watchlist now has a link at the to 'Feedback from my watched pages'. For example, see Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Scouting Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Scouting. Some of it might be useful. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 21:39, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Council Histories
I am currently adding BSA Council histories to the Scouting in United States articles, such as Scouting in Ohio/Dan Beard/History, and am unsure about the best formatting for the histories. Right now I've settles on paragraphs, which seems fine for some Councils, but with others it starts to get unwieldy.

For example: In 1915 Cincinnati Area Council (#438) was founded. In 1916 Covington Council (#201) was founded. In 1917 Middletown Council (#454) was founded. In 1919 Hamilton Council (#448) was founded. In 1925 Covington Council was renamed Northern Kentucky Council. In 1925 Hamilton Council was renamed Butler County Council. In 1932 Middletown Council was renamed Mound Builders Area Council. In 1935 Butler County Council was renamed Fort Hamilton Council. In 1952 Northern Kentucky Council was renamed Dan Beard Council. In 1956 Dan Beard Council (#201) and Cincinnati Area Council (#438) merged to form Dan Beard Council (#438). In 1959 Fort Hamilton Council (#448) merged into Dan Beard Council (#438). In 1985 Mound Builders Area Council (#454) merged into Dan Beard Council (#438).

Listing with bullet points on the other hand doesn't seem like a good idea either. Any thoughts on formatting this? ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 15:18, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Might be better as a separate article Former local councils of the Boy Scouts of America. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 18:51, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe in the Scouting in States articles mention the councils immediately previous to the current one, and those link to the former councils article. And the former councils article listed by council number, having every change associated with that council number?  ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 20:58, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * See the charts in Three Harbors Council or Bay-Lakes Council. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 12:10, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That is exactly how I picture it in my head - I hadn't realized there was markup for doing that. I'll start converting the info into the charts and we'll see how that looks.  ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 13:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I've converted all of the histories in Scouting in Ohio to charts. They look pretty good like that.  Any thoughts by other people?  ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 15:43, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I love the chats but in some areas the charts are going to be HUGE. The laurel highlands council based in Pittsburgh started out as 6+ or 7 councils that merged 10+ times. (I think all current councils are notable but I am not going to argue with people) -- Guerillero &#124;  My Talk  19:34, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * In Scouting in Ohio none of them turned out too big, but in Simon Kenton Council and Buckeye Council they get pretty ridiculous. I did the latter two after I left my comment here and so I'm now a bit more apprehensive about it.  Although in my opinion it is the clearest way to present the information.  So I'm torn.  ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 20:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks like Johnson487682 started the charts. If we get a very large one, we can put it in a collapsed box. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 20:59, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Consistent Council Formats
Another thing with the Scouting by State articles is the formatting of the council information. They are all vaguely similar, but the differences stand out when you're looking through state after state. I've done my own take on organizing it on the Scouting in Ohio page and I'm wondering if others have formatted another state to their taste or have opinions on this. ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 20:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * See WP:SCOUTMOS, particularly Article layouts. For councils, I have been using:
 * Lead
 * Organization
 * History
 * Camps
 * OA Lodge
 * ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 21:05, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I was most unsure of where to place history because of history and origins both being listed at article layouts.  ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 12:58, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

International Scouting Collectors Association
International Scouting Collectors Association was deleted as a copyright violation. Anyone want to restart it? ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 14:41, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

File:Pál Teleki 4th World Scout Jamboree Gödöllő.jpg
File:Pál Teleki 4th World Scout Jamboree Gödöllő.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 07:59, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies
There is an ongoing RFC at Talk:Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies about "Position on homosexuality" section. All editors are welcomed to share their opinion on the subject.

Note: per CANVASS, the following WikiProjects are informed about this RFC because they have project banners on that talk page: WikiProject Scouting, WikiProject Atheism, WikiProject LGBT studies. -- В и к и  T   19:34, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Fixing "Girl Scouts of America" to "Girl Scouts of the USA"
Does anyone see any problem with going through pages and fixing all instances of "Girl Scouts of America" to "Girl Scouts of the USA"? I view this as being similar to a misspelling.Naraht (talk) 17:48, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Pretty standard fix. Remember that Girl Guides of America and Girl Scouts of the United States are former names, and valid in historical use. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 20:58, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * And the one use in a citation in Girl Scouts of the USA, where it is part of an article title, wrong though it is. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 22:14, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Air Scouts and Sea Scouts in the UK
Air Scout is quite a long section compared with the sections for other countries and includes a detailed list of Aircraft owned by UK Scouts. There is no separate article on Air Scouts in the UK. Sea Scouts are covered by Sea Scouts (The Scout Association). The general Sea Scout article, unlike the general Air Scout article, only has a table giving basic information for each country. This raises two issues regarding the UK and a general issue. First, should we create Air Scouts (The Scout Association), moving much of the material from the general article UK section? Second, should Sea Scouts (The Scout Association) be moved to Sea Scouts (United Kingdom) and widened to cover all Scouting organisations in the UK? Does the Baden-Powell Scouts' Association have Sea Scouts? That article states that there is provision for them. It certainly has Air Scouts. If this is done, Air Scouts (The Scout Association) should be called Air Scouts (United Kingdom). Third, should Air Scout be simplifies to have a basic table on each country like Sea Scout? -- Bduke   (Discussion)  22:03, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that your question requires a fair amount of expertise to follow much less give intelligent input on. But vaguely speaking, when there is a significant scout movement in a country, IMHO any article should be specific to that country. North8000 (talk) 22:32, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, North, I do not really understand you. The UK certainly has a "significant scout movement". It also has a "significant scout organisation", the Scout Association, but it is no longer the only organisation, indeed if it ever was. The question is then, do we cover all organisations together, or have articles on the most significant? The region articles are the former. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  23:37, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Category:Christian Non-aligned Scouting organizations
Category:Christian Non-aligned Scouting organizations was just created and and number of articles moved. Do we really need this distinction? ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 03:19, 17 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think that we need it. There are still some christian organisations in the original category and we don't use this distinction in the WOSM and WAGGGS categories. --jergen (talk) 08:24, 17 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't understand the background, but would support whatever Gadget850 assesses / suggests on this. North8000 (talk) 10:33, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think the distinction is warranted. If there are many Scouting-like non-aligned organizations, I can see a 'Non-aligned Scouting organizations' category, but it doesn't seem there are that many after a cursory search.  ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 15:09, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Early History on Scouting in Vermont
Anyone feeling masochistic enough to try to clean that section up?Naraht (talk) 15:15, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Gladly, though it may be a few weeks until I have enough free time to do any substantial editing. ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 15:26, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

OA in Council Article Layout
Is there a consistent style we should be using for the OA section name in a Council article? As in, should the section be titled "Order of the Arrow," the lodge's name, or a mix of both? Right now pretty much every council article has something different. It'd be good to also add councils to the MOS. Most seem to fall under the line of History, Organization, Camp, Programs, OA. Any thoughts on other sections for Council articles for the MOS?  Def lag ro  C/T 06:36, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh! I see Council format is already being discussed further up the page.  Def lag ro   C/T 06:38, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I recommend using the lodge name; if there is more than one lodge, then use Order of the Arrow as the level two header and the lodge names as level three headers. Ditto for camps. See Stonewall Jackson Area Council, which has one camp and lodge and Greater Saint Louis Area Council for multiple camps and lodges. There are of course, only two councils that permanently have more than one lodge, but there are others temporarily with multiple lodges as the result of a recent merger. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 10:35, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Which two permanently have multiple?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 11:37, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * As noted in Order of the Arrow, Greater Saint Louis Area Council has two lodges and Greater New York Councils—which is divided into five boroughs—has five. Michigan Crossroads Council currently has nine loges as a result of the merger of nine councils— I anticipate it will will have four lodges when the mergers are complete (one for each field service council), but we will have to wait and see how that shakes out. I have been tracking council mergers at Template talk:Scoutorg BSA. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 12:13, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've been using Order of the Arrow and Camp(s) as level two headers. My thinking is that the more generic headers are clearer for people who are unfamiliar with Scouting or the specific councils.  ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 13:28, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * If they don' know much about the BSA (and those readers should be our real target audience), then neither a header of OA or lodge will be descriptive in and of itself. The first statement under the lodge or OA header should be something like "The council is served by the XXX Lodge of the Order of the Arrow, the Boy Scouting program's national honor society." ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:49, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I was thinking that the phrase 'Order of the Arrow' comes up more often than a specific lodge name, but you have a good point that the lead sentence includes all of that information. I have been persuaded and now also endorse the lodge name as the level two header.  ZybthRanger(talk) (contribs) 14:21, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I also prefer the individual Lodge names. I went ahead and added Councils to the MOS. I like that lead sentence. Is there someplace we can add in that lead sentence to the MOS so it can start becoming standard in Council articles?  Def lag ro   C/T 17:11, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * for each council article, please ensure that lodges and camps redirect to the council. I have created most redirects, but I could well have missed some. See User:Gadget850/List of Order of the Arrow lodges. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 20:55, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

BSA positions/awards and Notability
What positions or awards in BSA in and of themselves would be sufficient for Notability?
 * Chief Scout Executive
 * National President
 * National Commissioner
 * Assistant/Deputy CSE?
 * What other National level professionals? Directors?
 * Region Director
 * Silver Buffalo
 * Bronze Wolf (WOSM)
 * Order of the Arrow Distinguished Service Award

This is for the purposes of helping determine which people should remain in the list at List of Alpha Phi Omega_members. Thank You.Naraht (talk) 22:12, 19 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Is there a reason not to have a wiki category for Alpha Phi Omega members to add to bio pages? That would at least get all those who are significant enough for wikipedia articles in a category (or two, one for honorary, one for actual).  For listing on the actual page who are scouting related and to keep numbers down I would say CSE, National Presidents, Silver Buffalo, Bronze Wolf, and also any who've held significant International scouting positions (Secretary General, World Scout Committee Chair, possibly World Scout Committee members). I would also include only actual members.  Also any if any who've held equivalent positions in Girl Scouts or Campfire or the Philippines Scouts.  --Erp (talk) 03:18, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed on GS, Campfire, BSP. In general membership in a specific Greek Letter Organization is not its own category, although I see being a Distinguished Eagle Scout is one. However Distinguished Eagle Scout is actually a separate award beyond simply being an Eagle Scout. Whether to include Honoraries is a separate question.Naraht (talk) 11:36, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * At List of Eagle Scouts, we use the existence of an article as a requirement— this prevents arguments over notability. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 10:54, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


 * True, but given the Alpha Phi Omega Philippines brothers, not practical for this article. (and the third opinion that we got agrees) For example, one of the Philippines brothers was a member of the Supreme Court of the Philippines. Certainly, this is notable enough for an article, but one at this point does not exist in the English Language Wikipedia. (Anyone want to make List of Eagle Scouts (Boy Scouts of the Philippines) )Naraht (talk) 11:36, 20 November 2012 (UTC)