Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting task force

Moves
I've recently suggested some moves/renamings that aim to clear up confusion regarding the various Guide/Guides/Guiding (and Girl Scout equivalent) pages and what each page is about. Details and comments at Talk:Girl Guides. Kingbird (talk) 06:59, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * This matter has developed further and is now being discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting. Kingbird (talk) 06:11, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

WikiGuider
If anyone is interested, there is a wiki about Girlguiding UK matters here. Kingbird (talk) 04:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Girlguiding UK matters
I have just created a start to Girlguiding North West England and I will have a go at Girlguiding South West England soon. Only the latter is now missing. At least I used in live in the NW Region for many years-:). I have also created a template for these regions to go at the bottom of the article. There is problem with the four history references on Girlguiding UK. I am not sure whether they are now dead or whether they need you to login. Can someone check these? All these articles need some third party references like the BBC noticing the Guides in various places. I'm sure they are there somewhere. -- Bduke    (Discussion)  23:25, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * History: With every relaunch of the website, they are moving content around. Link is http://www.girlguiding.org.uk/xq/asp/sID.905/aID.275/qx/whoweare/article.asp --jergen (talk) 07:12, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I have fixed that link and I have also written Girlguiding South West England to complete the set. It is interesting that these two Regions include the Isle of Man, Guernsey and Jersey that are not even part of the UK. This is very different from the Scout Association. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  08:26, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Girl Scouting by State (USA)
I've been trying to update some info in the various states since the realignment is now about 80% done. A collection of maps can be found at User:Erp/Sandbox GS, but, I need info and input. In addition I've put up the realignment plan as of 2006 and have annotated a bit as for which ones are complete. Should I put up a section in the task force page on what should be done on each state? My thoughts are Other thoughts?--Erp (talk) 00:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) history of Girl Scouts in the State
 * 2) A list of council names both those with headquarters in the state (in which case the main info is here for that council) and those that serve part of the state
 * 3) Ideally a map showing the council boundaries, council headquarters, service centers and camps. I've been using the wikipedia state county maps and inkscape to do this for some states. However a few gotchas when council boundaries don't follow county boundaries.
 * 4) For each council
 * 5) Give headquarters
 * 6) Give Service Centers
 * 7) Give Web site
 * 8) Give camps both in council and out of council
 * 9) How many girls served and how many volunteers
 * 10) Other notable facts
 * I think you've been doing a great job, and thank you! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 02:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Chris asked on the main page about Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands etc. Actually Puerto Rico is on the table I have.  The others aren't under the Girl Scout Council Finder but instead seem to be committees under USA Girl Scouts Overseas. Guam does seem to be titled a council but not in the main list of councils.  --Erp (talk) 04:39, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd like to help but I'm not sure how. I'm probably most useful re-writing information given on Council web pages. Could you suggest a specific task I could tackle over the next few weeks? Kingbird (talk) 04:02, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we need to do a once through on all the states so that at least the post realignment info is in place. The ones with maps have usually been done.  The ones without, not.  I'm making a stab at California but I'm not even sure the GSUSA council finder page is accurate on which councils serve girls in that state.  Do you want to try Scouting in Texas?  It hasn't finished realignment but I think only one council is left to be formed and it is one of the more complex states left (I've more or less done New York's map just not uploaded).  If you can get me a list of counties per council, I can start making the svg map and put it up in my sandbox (I've put an entry in for Texas with a list of the current councils from the Girl Scout Council finder and you can add the counties if you are interested).  From there we can work to Scouting in Oklahoma, Scouting in Arkansas, Scouting in New Mexico.  Some of the mergers means that the new council web sites aren't complete (e.g., camps).  (BTW I wonder how many Camp Sacajaweas there are in the US.  I think there are 3 in New Jersey alone.)  In the long run I would like to get more history and get proper referencing.  For instance Camp Daisy Hindman in Scouting in Kansas which was founded in 1929 and eventually named after one of the early Scouters in Kansas who saw the need and worked to create the camp and its later expansion.  But we haven't even gotten to starter level for many of the states, alas.  --Erp (talk) 06:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll take on Texas. Kingbird (talk) 02:35, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Girl Guides of Canada missing
Once the US Girl Scout stuff is updated, (and thank you so much for that!), can you look at the Scouting in... articles for Canada? Most of the provinces are in sore repair, the Girl Guides of Canada sections for Ontario and Yukon had even been removed! That speaks of both arrogance or ignorance by some editors, and neglect or lack of interest by others. Those needing provincial emblem images also are:
 * British Columbia Council of Girl Guides of Canada
 * Saskatchewan Council of Girl Guides of Canada
 * Manitoba Council of Girl Guides of Canada
 * Ontario Council of Girl Guides of Canada
 * Québec Council of Girl Guides of Canada
 * Nova Scotia Council of Girl Guides of Canada
 * Prince Edward Island Council of Girl Guides of Canada
 * Newfoundland Council of Girl Guides of Canada
 * Yukon Council of Girl Guides of Canada

Thanks, Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 16:58, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Right, ho. I'll keep in mind that this needs work, but I can't commit to anything at the moment. Kingbird (talk) 00:10, 19 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I've put in a table for tallying up work done. I note that Yukon and Northwest seem to have been put under the aegis of Alberta's Provincial council in 2007 and Nunavut under Ontario.  Within each province are areas and we should probably work on those.--Erp (talk) 02:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm a Guider in Alberta. Will find you the logos for the missing provinces and improve the Guiding Section on the Alberta page.KizzyB (talk) 09:06, 7 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 11:46, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Good History source
This link leads to a series of chronological bits of history. It has a bias to Australia, but could be useful and I have not seen it used yet. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  23:37, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

United Kingdom outlying Guiding
✅ I've created stubs for the eight remaining outer branches, please help if you can with images and info, thanks!


 * Anguilla - Anguilla branch of Girlguiding UK
 * British Virgin Islands - British Virgin Islands branch of Girlguiding UK
 * Cayman Islands - Cayman Islands branch of Girlguiding UK
 * Falkland Islands - Falkland Islands branch of Girlguiding UK
 * Gibraltar - Gibraltar branch of Girlguiding UK
 * Montserrat - Montserrat branch of Girlguiding UK
 * Saint Helena - Saint Helena branch of Girlguiding UK
 * Turks and Caicos Islands - Turks and Caicos Islands branch of Girlguiding UK

Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 08:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Good work, Chris. I am coming in here because the two of you may want to comment. I suggest that some of these should be merged. For example, Saint Helena branch of Girlguiding UK could be merged into Scouting and Guiding on Saint Helena and Ascension Island and Turks and Caicos Islands branch of Girlguiding UK could be merged into Scouting and Guiding in the Turks and Caicos Islands. There are no separate Scouting articles. These Scouting and Guiding groups are small. One article for everything S & G on the Islands would suffice with likely never a need to fork anything out. It is difficult to establish notability. Let us think about these two first. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  08:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Brian, I'm with you, stepping back and looking at it. Shall I merge-tag them or should we just merge them in-house? Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 08:47, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Let us see what out hostess here, Kingbird, thinks. Falkland Islands branch of Girlguiding UK is in the same state. The others have a cat with three entries, basically, S & G in X, S in X and G in X. I'm inclined to merge all those too. I think we can do it in house. Why not copy this discussion or a summary to the task force page. I'm going to have to run. BTW, I am going to be off line after tomorrow for about 5 days. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bduke (talk • contribs)


 * If we cannot find more content than in Girlguiding Gibraltar, a merge would be best.
 * BTW: Should the articles be moved to [... Girlguiding]? --jergen (talk) 13:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I support the merger described for the Saint Helena and Turks and Caicos articles. I don't understand what has been said about the categories, but I'm unlikely to violently object to it! Regarding notability for the St Helena article, I think I have some additions that will help. Kingbird (talk) 21:07, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Scouting in XXX (USA) articles
I've put up a query on standards and possible overhaul for these articles at WikiProject Scouting. If interested, please join the conversation over there. --Erp (talk) 02:18, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Interesting source for UK guiding
This is in the resources section of the overall project but

Proctor, Tammy M. "On my honour": Guides and Scouts in interwar Britain, 2002, http://books.google.com/books?id=4y0LAAAAIAAJ

has quite a bit of info on pre-WW2 Guiding (as well as Scouting) in Britain (and the overall world movement). Including some interesting stuff on early changes in Guiding (e.g., why and how did Agnes Baden-Powell get replaced by Olave Baden-Powell and what else happened). This is an academic paper (180 pages) and originally a dissertation. The brief snippets I've read so far remove some of the sugar coating that scout manuals/webpages often give on the history.--Erp (talk) 07:48, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Australian States and Territories
I have finally completed the job I started a long time ago and moved all articles on Australian States and Territories to be "Scouting and Guiding in XXX". These are:


 * Australian Capital Territory·New South Wales·Northern Territory·Queensland·South Australia·Tasmania·Victoria·Western Australia

They still need a lot of work. I could find little about Guiding history, for example. Infoboxes for the Guide sections are needed. I have tagged the talk pages with this task force. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  04:33, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your hard work on this topic, Bduke. I am interested in helping improve these article with more Guiding information, but I can't make a specific commitment at the moment. Kingbird (talk) 02:36, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Caribbean Link - missing member
WAGGGS says that the Caribbean Link for Guiding has 21 member organisations. I can only track down 20. Can anyone help? Kingbird (talk) 23:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps Haiti - Association Nationale des Guides d'Haïti, see . There is also a similar subregional organization for Central America: "Central American Gathering/Encuentro Centroamericano", http://western.wagggsworld.org/en/about/groups/ -jergen (talk) 08:40, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Recent update of WAGGGS website
The website of WAGGGS (http://www.wagggs.org/en/world) was recently updated with lots of new information on the member organizations - as far as I could see, the site contains now the integral of "Trefoil Round the World". Luckily, the structure of the site was not changed, so most or all links are still valid. But there is plenty new content that should be integrated in the articles. --jergen (talk) 08:55, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you Jergen! --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 09:08, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

http://www.flickr.com/groups/girlguidesandgirlscouts/pool/page2/
I don't know if/how we can use these, but I found http://www.flickr.com/groups/girlguidesandgirlscouts/pool/page2/ --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 18:26, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing out this resource. There are some good photos of badges and uniforms in there. Kingbird (talk) 21:19, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Thinking Day 2010
Happy Thinking Day to all in the task force! Kingbird (talk) 17:52, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * To you as well, and thank you all for your hard work! As we say in Japan, お疲れ様です！ --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 13:20, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

March portal theme
I have chosen an all Girl Scout/Guide theme for the March 2010 portal. I've had themes before, like the Netherlands one. Help in this in the future appreciated.  — Rlevse • Talk  • 17:44, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Jergen has given me a great set of German articles for April, can others put articles and pics for other themes on the portal candidates pages? Aussie, Brit, Indian, whatever, thanks! — Rlevse • Talk  • 19:33, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If we can find free-use pics of Japanese Girl Scouts, they are adorable and have the nicest old-school uniforms! They are everywhere here, helping out all over the place, but my only camera is my phone. Any suggestions where I can look on the Internet for free ones? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 07:55, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Further, I have asked User:Kasuga to make a Girl Scout/Guide version of Wikipe-tan, the Wikipedia mascot, but thus far no answer. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 07:55, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * ps-update, take a look at what's brewing at Graphic Lab/Illustration workshop! Wikipedia can be fun! --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 11:56, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Many Japanese love photography, I'm sure one of your friends has a good digital camera they can use to take free Scout pics.  — Rlevse • Talk  • 00:42, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

www.vintagegirlscout.com
This site seems to be down at the moment, but it's a great visual historical reference! --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 23:30, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

http://www.flickr.com/groups/girlguidesandgirlscouts
This website may provide needed graphics, and apparently there is some agreement between Flickr and Wikipedia, please have a look!--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 05:01, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I just found this, sounds deserving of an article, anyone?
Abbie Farwell Brown (1871–1927) GLS Class of 1891 ... In addition, her poem "On the Trail," set to music by Mabel Daniels, another GLS graduate (1896), became the Girl Scouts' anthem.--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 16:30, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Pax Lodge
Please take a look at Pax Lodge. If you look at the article in the editor, a lot of the paragraphs start with an indent, although this does not show in the article view itself. That looks to me that they are direct cut and paste from somewhere else so there may be a copyright issue here. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  00:05, 28 January 2011 (UTC)


 * The same text shows up at http://www.paxlodge.org/en/ourworldcentre/History, it was introduced in 2009 to the article by User:Paxlodge . This may hint at an allowed usage, but I'm not quite sure about this. The article has further issues, in 2008 User:Chezzi2 inserted the wording of a song . Judging from the content of these edits, this was also done by somebody working for Pax Lodge. --jergen (talk) 10:36, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * http://www.paxlodge.org/en/ourworldcentre/History has a copyright tag for WAGGGS, so it looks like it is a copyvio. We need to remove that material, but I am off to bed now. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  10:50, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Female editors on Wikipedia
I did not realize the number of female editors was as low as 13%, until I read it on Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Think of Wikipe-tan!. Though I personally like Wikipe-tan, I am egalitarian and do not want to chase off the editors we have in GGGS taskforce. Is the GGGS Wikipetan I had commissioned offputting?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 13:14, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * How is it offputting if it is a badge celebrating 100 years of the girl scouts? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:26, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Could you please leave it to members of the GGGS taskforce, particularly the female members, to respond. I am a member, but I am waiting for the few female members here to respond. None of them are very active. Guide and Girl Scout articles, as opposed to male Scout articles, really suffer from the fact that only 13% of editors are female. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  22:05, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Bduke is right, the question isn't meant for general comment, it's meant for our female members.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:42, 6 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I guess I'm one of the few female editors infrequent though I be; however, I haven't yet formed an opinion. I will note the 13% may be a bit low as some women put unspecified (I have that set myself) or male just to avoid potential harassment.  The big hurdle is probably getting people to do the first few edits and realize that they can contribute without being considered vandals or egomaniacs.  Knowing about task forces, etc. tends to be a bit further down the line and after they've gotten into the habit of editing and so less likely to be scared away.  I will also note that one problem about the Girl Scout/Girl Guide area is that far less has been written about them than the Boy Scout area historically so fewer secondary sources as well as fewer potential editors with a primary interest in the area.   --Erp (talk) 07:03, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I am also a female editor.  I do not care for Girl Scout Wikipe-tan, as I do not find it the least bit egalitarian. It does not represent Girl Scouts or Guides in any way, and the 100 by itself has no meaning. I  have been in Girl Scouting almost 50 years.  No offense to you Buffalo, but it is offputting. Sincerely  — DocOfSoc •  Talk  •  21:31, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I am a female editor too. I haven't read all the discussions regarding Wikipe-tans that have happened in the last few weeks. I am answering the question "did you find the GGGS task force wikipe-tan offputting?" I did not/do not find the picture in question offputting. It's not my style of art, but I know others have different tastes to me. If I had though the image controversial, I would have initiated a discussion about it, in my role as task force co-ordinator. If this style of picture has some unfortunate cultural meaning, then I can only protest that I am in ignorance of it. I do not agree with DocofSoc's assessment that it has nothing to do with Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting. I see a picture of a girl dressed in blue (the colour I wore as a Guide, even if other organisations wear other colours), making the Girl Guide/Girl Scout salute (one of the things all WAGGGS organisations have in common), with a trefoil in the background (also common to Girl Guiding/Girl Scouting organisations). My other thought on this issue is that if I, personally, had created a decoration for the task force page, I would have sought support for it on the discussion page before putting on the front page, and possibly before drawing it. I did find it a little odd when it appeared. (Did I miss something?) Would I seek a consensus first because I am a woman? I don't know. Power, consensus, protocol, risk-taking and approval are tricky issues on Wikipedia. Kingbird (talk) 22:05, 16 March 2011 (UTC)


 * @Doc It seems you miss understood that the OP was considering herself egalitarian, and not the picture.
 * Speaking from an egalitarian viewpoint, discussions like these which presuppose generalities of opinion between women are a source of embarrassment to those women who have strong individual beliefs. As far as new editors go, someone who would be put off from editing Wikipedia because they cannot reconcile with the aesthetic preferences of other editors wouldn't be suited for the compromising necessary to successfully edit. More women would be a benefit to the project, but the demographic of people who do not care for or respect other people's preferences are the last one we should be catering to.AerobicFox (talk) 02:08, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I think the real point is being missed. It is not really whether the image is off-putting. It is whether the wiki-tan images in general reinforce the blokey image of wikipedia and other WMF projects. Removing them would only make a small dint in that blokey image, but it would be a start. If anyone suggests that there is no blokey image, please explain why only 13% of editors are female and 87% are male. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  09:20, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I would suggest that there are many reasons women do not edit wikipedia:, , . I'm not sure which part of your argument I have the most trouble reconciling with, that you believe a chibi-anime girl contributes to a blokey image, or that unjustly deleting and removing it will bring us closer to increasing our number of editors and not frustrate current editors while reinforcing ideas of Wikipedia being a unwelcoming community.AerobicFox (talk) 01:13, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Who are you and what planet are you from? Nobody "deleted" this image, it's still there, and the removal from this page was not "unjust", it was done in good faith having requested the feelings of the task force members, of which you are not one. Bduke and I did not ourselves weigh in, but asked non-Project-female-members to refrain from butting in. You missed that part. For that matter, what brings you to this clearly-labeled-for-those-members-specifically-forum uninvited, spouting vitriol like "people who do not care for or respect other people's preferences are the last one we should be catering to" and then accusing others of being unwelcoming? You are a hypocrite, and nobody asked you.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 12:41, 14 July 2011 (UTC)