Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Seventh-day Adventist Church/Archive 3

WikiProject Religion
The group indicated above was recently revitalized for, among other things, the purpose of working on those articles whose content is such that the article does not fall within the scope of any particular denomination. To most effectively do this, however, we would benefit greatly if there were at least one member from this Project working on those articles. On that basis, I would encourage and welcome any member of this Project willing to work on those articles to join the Religion WikiProject. Thank you. Badbilltucker 14:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Jesus nominated for Article Improvement Drive
I recently found that our article on Jesus is the first page that appears when anyone does a Google search of the subject. It is currently, regrettably, only at GA status. On that basis, I would request any individuals who might be interested in helping to bring this article up to FA status to indicate their support for the article being chosen as the AID article at Article Creation and Improvement Drive. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 18:04, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Template:Adventism
What do you think of the Template I "made"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jannizz (talk • contribs) 11:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

Template Question
I've searched high and low and I can't find the answer. Can someone please tell me, either here or on my talk page where the template for this is. Thanks! --Maniwar (talk) 04:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I figured it out. --Maniwar (talk) 00:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Education; category name change
Which title should an article about Seventh-day Adventist education have? Is that the best one? (I have nominated this as a proposed article on the project page). -Colin MacLaurin 12:51, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I would also like to propose a category name change. Category:Academies and elementary schools affiliated with the Seventh-day Adventist Church and Category:Universities and colleges affiliated with the Seventh-day Adventist Church are very wordy. Admittedly that in the parent categories for all churches, the "affiliated with" terminology is the most common. But see also Category:Mormon universities and colleges, Category:Lutheran universities and colleges , Category:Roman Catholic universities and colleges , etc. I propose a rename to Category:Seventh-day Adventist universities and colleges, and similarly for the other.

I don't know if there was a reason for the present naming. In the recent discussion on CfD no consensus was reached regarding this naming, so I guess it is at our discretion. -Colin MacLaurin 12:51, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Category:Hospitals affiliated with the Seventh-day Adventist Church is also awkwardly named. Independent ministries of the Seventh-day Adventist Church has a similar format, but this one seems more natural. The other similarly worded one is Category:Organisational structures of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, but perhaps this one is OK too. Comments please! Colin MacLaurin 07:32, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Ellen G. White template deletion discussion
This deletion discussion may be a place for members of this wikiproject to contribute. Particularly it would be good if someone could find a reference for my statement about her being the second most translated female author in history. Cheers, Ans e ll  04:24, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ansell, help me first understand. Where are we going with this template? What is the purpose of it? Thanks --Maniwar (talk) 16:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The purpose I see for it is to link articles related to Ellen White. Forgive me if I am not up with the current standards for what should and should not be a template, but it seems like a reasonable use considering the other subject areas which use templates. Ans e ll  03:21, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I was asking because I want to help in the debate, but because I don't know what it was being used for, I didn't want to support something I had no clue about. I'm still not sure what it's for or what this type of template is used for. I honestly would like to add my support, but I'd feel dumb and not know how to support it. I would hope that others on here who know what they're for could help, but I'm afraid, I'm no help...sorry! If you care to share more however, that would be welcomed. Good luck! --Maniwar (talk) 21:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Template:WP Adventist
I did a major addition to the page here. Please make comments, to keep the flow here. Thanks! --Maniwar (talk) 15:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

South Pacific Division article
The article South Pacific Division of Seventh-day Adventists was deleted in the past, but it is certainly notable for Wikipedia purposes. We need someone to do a little work to establish the article again. Ansell has a backup of the page here. It just needs a bit of work first - in particular, it needs an official founding date and citation for this. Next, there is a process to be followed after a successful AfD ("articles for deletion"). It needs to go to a Deletion Review. Regards, Colin MacLaurin 01:35, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * OK I ended up fixing it myself! Investigating the deletion review process now... Colin MacLaurin 05:17, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Reading Undeletion policy, we need to know how the article was deleted (AfD, speedy deletion, etc.) I had a quick look for an archived AfD discussion, but could not find it. Would someone please assist! Colin MacLaurin 05:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Articles for deletion/South Pacific Division of Seventh-day Adventists Cheers, Ans e ll  13:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Deletion log for the page Ans e ll  13:22, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Deletion review states, "If a short stub was deleted for lack of content, and you wish to create a useful article on the same subject, you can be bold and do so". I never saw the original page - was it a short stub? I guess that it was. Colin MacLaurin 08:12, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * In response to an admin telling me what was in the old page I thought it sensible to be bold and avoid a long deletion review considering the differences in the article lengths and content. Feel free to edit South Pacific Division of Seventh-day Adventists in its new position!  Ans e ll  07:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation names
Currently a few article titles are disambiguated by adding "(Adventist)" to the end. Perhaps we should expand this to "Seventh-day Adventist", because the term "Adventist" is ambiguous. I found Remnant (Adventist), Spirit of Prophecy (Adventist), Eschatology (Adventist), Joseph Bates (Adventist), Liberty (Adventist magazine) and Guide (Adventist magazine). However Pathfinders (Seventh-day Adventist) already has the suggested form. What do you think? Colin MacLaurin 05:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that the change would be a good one, since "Adventist" can refer to a lot of different things/religious groups. --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 00:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Prophetic gift of Ellen White article
I have proposed a name change on the talk page of the article prophetic gift of Ellen White to "inspiration of Ellen White". So far, no one has contributed to the discussion. Please reply there with a comment. The article has often been subjected to contributions of questionable POV from both sides (overly supportive and overly critical), and I would really appreciate more helpful contributions from editors who respect Wikipedia's policies such as NPOV. Please comment on the name change if nothing else. Cheers, Colin MacLaurin 05:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Comments were made on that talk page, and I have moved it to inspiration of Ellen White. Colin MacLaurin 20:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Recent thoughts
Tonic and others, I have done a lot of thinking about our discussion on sources to use for Adventist beliefs. I remember a Wikipedia policy stating something like: if there is debate as to which view is the best, just include all the points of view, with citations. I hope that much of our conversation can actually be transferred into articles, e.g. scholarship not always reflecting the average church member etc. We could just say, "There are several angles from which to consider the theology of the church such as official statements, Adventist scholarship, and "popular" material or presenters." I thought of some major Adventist figures who are not scholars but form a major face of the church, like 3ABN, Mark Finley (most well known evangelist? His book Studying Together is a reference for his views), Dwight Nelson and Doug Batchelor. Another good one would be the prophecy seminar, which is often used for outreach, and should be featured in the Eschatology (Adventist) article IMO (I know of several new prophecy seminars currently being developed, so this would probably need some updating in the future). Colin MacLaurin 03:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

The Book of Revelation
I see that the Seventh-day Adventist church does not have representation for the Book of Revelation article ([here]) and it would be nice if someone who is a good writer and knows their stuff would add it. --User: (talk) 15:31, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Scope of Project
Do you think the scope of this WikiProject should be expanded to include other Adventist groups, and probably articles on William Miller etc. as well? Note that it is fine for articles to be within the scope of several projects. The Seventh-day Adventist Church is the largest Adventist church by about 100 times, I understand. Of course, it would be important to ask those other Adventists what they think. Colin MacLaurin 20:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I think that we could at least include all articles relating to early Millerites and Adventists, as there is a common heritage. An article such as the Worldwide Church of God is not something that really relates to this project though, in my opinion. I doubt that many Adventists know much about them. However other Sabbatarian Adventists, or anyone else who broke from the SDA church is relevant, IMO. Colin MacLaurin 09:36, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Broaden proposal
I now propose that we broaden the scope of this WikiProject to cover all "Adventist" topics generally, not just Seventh-day Adventist topics. It would hence include Millerite topics, the Adventist movement springing from it, and the Seventh-day Adventist Church in particular. Colin MacLaurin (talk) 05:10, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

White space

 * I volunteer to fill the White space, this page, my campaign against white space was successful (for the time being) on Christianity by manipulating the TOC. Here, this would involve an image of 3 Angels and the lead section as  scrolling which is hidden, unless you have a big screen. Take a look User:Athrash/X Template. If someone can achieve the same effect of non-collapsing window and TOC, and keep the image from moving, feel free to reprogram. This happened with minimized window in Mozilla or small screen and required some tinkering with that awful pipe syntax. &#45; Athrash | T a l k 00:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

New project proposal
There is a new WikiProject task force proposal at WikiProject Council/Proposals that is being proposed to deal specifically with articles whose content relates to several religious traditions. Any editors interested in joining such a group would be more than welcome to indicate their interest there. John Carter 15:09, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Reasons for failed FA nom
Does anyone have a link to the page where it explains the reasons that Seventh-day Adventist Church failed its FA nomination? What are we still missing? Can we renom it as it is (I think it's pretty good!) or do we need some more work on it? --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 00:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

BTW
I've been working to fix all pages that pass through a redirect to the page Seventh-day Adventist Church. There are other pages that can use that kind of help, but even this one page is a lot of work, and since it is the most important for this project.... Any help would be appreciated, of course! Happy editing! --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 00:21, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Journals and magazines
I propose a template for (prominent) Seventh-day Adventist magazines and academic journals. A section for academic journals, a section for official church magazines (Record, Adventist Review etc.) and others. Colin MacLaurin 19:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

vote for Moses to become a featured article vote
Vote at Featured article candidates/Moses so as too get Moses into a featured article Java7837 23:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It is not a simple vote, it "should" be a review of the article. Ans e ll  23:33, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

What "tales" of the Bible merit separate articles?
There has recently been some discussion regarding which "stories" or portions of the Bible merit having their own articles. For the purposes of centralized discussion, please make any comments at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bible. Thank you. John Carter 13:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Adventist Today links
The magazine Adventist Today recently changed its website. All of the references to it from Wikipedia are currently broken. We can either wait to see if they will create redirects on their own site, or update all the Wikipedia links ourselves. Their magazine archives site appears to be still under development. Colin MacLaurin 09:14, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Userboxes
If the alternative userboxes with new image possibilities (bottom two) are desirable and used, Wikipedia guidelines state: Create it (them) as a subpage to the WikiProject. Catholicism WP:CCW is following this. Here, this would produce a very long file name unless WP:SDA could be used instead. Quakers WP:WRSOF, with a long name also, have template wording which might convert to Template:User WikiProjectSDA. &#45; Athrash | T a l k 21:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The quoted guideline above is Userboxes. I have moved the project userbox from my user subpage to the project subpage WikiProject Seventh-day Adventist Church/Userbox. I think we should change to an image of Ellen White, or possibly an old church logo if they are public domain (I doubt it). Colin MacLaurin 16:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Project portal
It's been started, if only started. Please see Portal:Seventh-day Adventist Church. John Carter 18:26, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

New article proposal
I would like input into this new proposal: an article "Seventh-day Adventist culture" or similarly titled. One category would be Category:Christian culture. It would also "See also" Seventh-day Adventism in popular culture. What should the scope be? This should be stated clearly at the start of the article. I don't envision a broad definition including theology etc., as that would make it virtually equivalent to the main article. Health practices may well deserve a separate article of their own, since it is a big emphasis in the church and Adventists are also well known for it (externally) as well. Diet? Music? Personality? Education? Nationalities (i.e. very global)?

Here's a cuisine comment which was too trivial for the main article, but may belong in the proposed one (if cited eventually):
 * "Haystacks" are a favorite potluck food, which consists of corn chips covered in beans (typically pinto beans) with several toppings including lettuce, tomatoes, olives, mushrooms, onions, cheese, sour cream, etc.

Colin MacLaurin 05:55, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Conservative Adventism
I propose a new article titled, "Conservative Adventism". It would be in contrast to the existing articles Historic Adventism and Progressive Adventism. It would perhaps not be hugely long for the time being, but I believe there are still a lot of good references to it available out there. Some articles are in this SDAPI search. Compare many references in the Progressive Adventism article, to what those authors contrast progressive beliefs to. Compare the quotations in the Adventist Theological Society article, where it is characterised by progressives in 3 separate articles, and also by Woodrow Whidden who is a conservative theologian, and by also the organisation itself which describes itself as "conservative". (I just added two quotes, by members, who claim it is centrist).

Compare Madelynn Jones-Haldeman, "...Adventist liberals are compared and/or contrasted with 'conservative Adventists,' 'historic Adventists,' 'Bible-believing (or EGW-believing) Adventists,' 'traditional Adventists,' 'evangelical Adventists,' 'cultural Adventists,' and/or 'ecumenical Adventists.'" I haven't read the results of studies like Valuegenesis yet, but they would probably contain excellent comments.

I believe there are enough reputable sources right now for such an article. Incidentally, I also believe of course that there will be many more coming in the future. Support or deny? Colin MacLaurin 14:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Also evangelical Adventism (currently a redirect to progressive Adventism) is mentioned a lot, particularly by non-Adventist authors. Perhaps it deserves an article. Colin MacLaurin 06:00, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Aren't some of these classifications actually synonymous, and only a matter of who is using the terms? -- Fyslee / talk 06:04, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I assumed that the adjectives "liberal", "evangelical", "progressive" and "cultural" for Adventism were fairly synonymous, however as I am reading more, it seems many draw a distinction between "evangelical Adventism" (e.g. Ford before 1980, Brinsmead during the 1970s, Heppenstall, La Rondelle etc.) and "progressive/liberal Adventism" (e.g. Cottrell and others, and many theologians today). I plan to put a section "evangelical Adventism" in the Progressive article, just to gather information and resources. See how it goes – it will become clearer whether it could branch out into its own article. Please contribute Fyslee, and anyone else too, of course. Colin MacLaurin 11:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * There are no doubt some differences, and a lot of overlapping....;-) -- Fyslee / talk 22:19, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Ugh! The more I learn the more confused I feel. An article by evangelical Kenneth Samples describes "Evangelical Adventism" as rejecting the investigative judgment, among other things. That would equate it with "progressive". His definition of "Traditional Adventism" I am surprised by, but note that Keith Lockhart made a similar identification. To me, this equating is dubious, but I don't know... I'll ask an Adventist history expert about it today. Colin MacLaurin 18:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Branch Seventh Day Adventists
How different would this proposed article from the main project page be for Branch Davidians? I acknowledge my own ignorance of the subject, however, and apologize in advance if it demonstrates my stupidity. John Carter 17:35, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I have never heard of them. Most off-shoot groups distance themselves from the main church and consider it to be corrupted or otherwise no longer "God's true church," or whatever terms they have called it. Branch Davidians were a second generation off-shoot group as I recall. They were an off-shoot of another off-shoot group, and so were rather distant from most Adventists and likely unknown by most. -- Fyslee / talk 22:09, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Source materials
Currently, there are many external links to non-original versions of various books and articles. In the citation templates, there is a parameter for indicating that the link is not to the original publisher. If these materials are in the public domain, then let's move them to Wikisource (e.g. see Adventist church category there). Many of the externally linked sites are highly POV. Colin MacLaurin 09:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Article Rating
This may sound like a newbie question, but how do you get an article's rating changed? (NorthernFalcon 05:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC))
 * Just change it yourself :). For GA (good article) or FA (featured article) [and probably A-class articles also] they need to be nominated. Of course, if the rating is controversial in any way it is polite to discuss it on the talk page first. Colin MacLaurin 01:03, 2 December 2007 (UTC)