Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Shopping Centers

Trammell Crow Company
Trammell Crow Company article was a shopping center company. The Trammell Crow Company article was prodded and deleted as non-notable a while ago. Could an admin look at the deleted article to see if notability might be established after all? For information on the company's founder, see Trammell Crow. --Eastmain (talk) 03:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Shall this be considered your official request that a prod article be restored? With PROD, just like how anyone can remove the tag and end the process, anyone can request that a PROD article be restored.  As an admin, I will happily restore it for you.  Just say the word.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 11:18, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Useful resources
I sometimes find a search on Retail Traffic magazine's site at http://retailtrafficmag.com/ a good way to find information on a mall. The other resources listed at WikiProject_Shopping_Centers are also helpful. --Eastmain (talk) 03:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Indian Springs Mall
I would suggest the Indian Springs Mall in Kansas City, Kansas be added to the "defuncted mall" list. Resource information can be found at www.labelscar.com/kansas/indian-springs-mall. It operates today as an under-utilized not for profit office building and flea market. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.123.109.214 (talk) 19:08, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Two problems. First of all, the defunct malls list which you speak of was deleted through the Articles for Deletion process.  Secondly, labelscar.com, a blog, is not a reliable source for information.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 23:04, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. &mdash; Delievered by §hepBot  ( Disable )  on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 06:33, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Pier Shops at Caesars
This article, Pier Shops at Caesars, had an entry in the Incidents Section describing the Sept. 2009 accident which i corrected. the original version read as if it was a cut & paste from news without any references. The text mentioned the name of the person, the town he lived in and the company he worked for. I've edited the entry to have the same amount of information as the entry about previous incident. I need to disclose a potential for conflict of interest here: I knew the person involved and i am affiliated with the company he was employed in. Independent of this, however, i believe that the original entry: a) was not written in encyclopedia style - contained thoughts by the news story author without any references b) carried information irrelevant to the topic of the article (this information is still relayed in the now-referenced news article) If the community believes that the changes made decrease the value of the article and/or are biased, I will restore the original text --Smersh2009 (talk) 15:03, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

How to define the largest shopping center?
By gross area? retail floor area? certainly not by number of shops as a small shopping center can have more shops than a a bigger one. thanks. --Xaiver0510 (talk) 01:11, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Malls fall into 'Classes'. See the ICSC's official guideline for naming conventions located here. The largest are called Super Regionals Exit2DOS • Ctrl • Alt • Del 02:48, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, but that doesn't quite answer the question in this case. Let me try rephrasing: When ranking shopping centers by size, do we discount the square footage of the common "mall" area and count only the leasable area, or do we count all enclosed space?  SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * From what I have seen, total Enclosed Square Footage. As the management can place isle-way kiosks, temporary seasonal sales carts & even 'sidewalk sales' into that area, it becomes a sales/advertising space and income generator. It is rented out the same as a retail space would be, just usually on a shorter term. Yes, this would also includes Mall Offices, Work spaces & Storage units. Hope that helps. Exit2DOS • Ctrl • Alt • Del 03:16, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I am browsing the wiki pages of shopping centers in Singapore and inside it poses several contradictory statements maybe due to being outdated information or such. Hence I like to clean it up a bit. I will try to find the information on Enclosed Square Footage, ranked them accordingly and update the wiki pages. Thanks again --Xaiver0510 (talk) 11:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

List of shopping malls, hypermarkets and department stores in Thailand
This list is in a dreadful state, as can be seen from its Talk page. It was nominated for deletion in 2007 but was kept after no consensus, though I suspect that was before it was included in this Shopping Center project. I'd like to improve it, but it's a daunting task and I don't want to go ahead with a lot of work unless there's some consensus first. So I've added a Talk page section, and would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on the best plan of action. Oscroft (talk) 08:25, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Plaza del Lago
I would like to bring this new article to your attention: Plaza del Lago. It uses the plaza's own directory and 'calendar' as references. As I'm not sure whether this is acceptable or not so I thought I'd bring it to the attention of people who might. Freikorp (talk) 23:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Nominated for deletion. SchuminWeb (Talk) 23:21, 3 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for noting this, Freikorp! Digging in, this center seems to have fairly good claim for notability.  This source claims it to be the 1st shopping center in Illinois. A 1996 Chicago Sun Times piece says it dates to 1928--can someone pull a full copy of that one (its on highbeam)?--that is fairly old, just a few years after Country Club Plaza.  I see other chicago paper articles behind pay walls as well  This one from 1992 says, "the stores of Plaza del Lago, which says it's the nation's second-oldest shopping center" (as this this one).  It was originally called "Spanish Court".  I'll try to start improving the article shortly, along with whoever else would like to help!--Milowent (talk) 05:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Marketplace Mall (Winston-Salem) VA Medical Clinic
http://www.myfox8.com/wghp-new-va-clinic-100204,0,7133805.story (for verification purposes only)

I'm not real sure or comfortable in integrating this story in the Marketplace Mall article. I Provided the link for the story I hear on the newscast. There is possibly an article in "Army Echoes" about this clinic. Another contributor can take credit for the actual article work.

Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xsintricks (talk • contribs) 02:17, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Clarks Village
Would anyone be willing to take a look at Clarks Village? An IP editor is adding a list of shops/brands and I'm not sure if this is appropriate. Also looking at the project for a relevant infobox, I could only find Template:Infobox shopping mall but Clarks Village would never be defined as a Mall so I'm not sure if it is suitable?&mdash; Rod talk 16:44, 13 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Taken care of. The directory has been removed entirely, and I placed a note on the IP editor's talk page underneath your message, asking them not to re-add the material, and that now that they have been asked nicely, future attempts to re-add may be viewed as disruptive.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 18:48, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

The food court at Carrefour Laval
When I first saw the new food court at Carrefour Laval (opened 2009-11-01), where tenants are not allowed to use throwaway styrofoam plates which are almost universally used elsewhere, I was told that it was the first mall in Canada to implement such a system, but that another mall in the US was already doing it. However, I haven't been able to determine what was that other mall. Can anyone help me? --  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 02:49, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The Toronto Eaton Centre is renovating its food courts, among other things, and there has been significant media coverage of the fact that the new food courts will use reusable plates, with staff to clear/bus the tables. I just reviewed some of the news items to see if they mentioned other malls that had adopted this approach, but nothing popped up.  Sorry.  --Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:49, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Another pair of eyes?
Hi folks - don't know if anyone here might be able to lend a hand. A new editor, User:MyAllMyWorld, has started adding lots of stuff to List of shopping malls in Thailand, but there are a couple of important problems in that they're adding a lot of Bangkok stuff when we already have a List of shopping malls in Bangkok article, and they're also adding lots of stores which aren't malls. I've already reverted 3 times and have explained why, but they seem impervious. And as it's not vandalism, I don't want to revert any more (I also don't want to block, as I'm involved in this list article). I'd be grateful if anyone else could keep their eye on it too and do what they can to help if the new editor continues. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:36, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

WP:SHOP
I think it would be a good idea to change WP:SHOP to point to Consensus, as it has been linked various times from various dispute-resolution-related pages, and is obviously not meant to point at WikiProject Shopping Centers. I had a look at what links to the shortcut page, and there didn't seem to be anything that would be really tragically missed. Please let me know if I've overlooked something, though. —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 09:55, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and made the change - sorry for doing it with no notice. Let me know if you have any complaints. —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 10:01, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I oppose the change. The shortcut strikes me as being far more relevant to this type of topic. You should wait for consensus (i.e. allow more than 6 minutes for the discussion).  --Skeezix1000 (talk) 12:59, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The majority of the links to the shortcut were intended to point here (more than 2:1); some of the others were intended to point to WP:PS rather than WP:FORUMSHOP. My view is leave well enough alone. If a change is made, though, the shortcut should probably just point to the DAB at WP:SHOPPING.--Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:20, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Algo Centre Mall collapse
As you may have heard, a mall in northern Ontario, Canada had a parking garage on the roof. It collapsed in on the mall, killing at least one, trapping one other (confirmed), and up to a dozen others (unconfirmed, no one can find them in town). My request is a fresh set of eyes, to see whether there's anything that can be improved in this article. -- Zanimum (talk) 01:03, 27 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, being perhaps the only North American mall structural collapse, ever, and the article being GA, I was wondering if someone would consider evaluating this as mid-level importance in the WikiProject's template? --  Zanimum (talk) 17:00, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Metro centre, Gateshead, - Trafford Centre, Manchester.
Someone please clarify, the larger of the two. MetroCentre_(shopping_centre),: or Trafford_Centre,:

List_of_UK_shopping_centres,:

Also therefore which one should be in on this list..

List_of_largest_shopping_malls_in_the_world ?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.49.199.99 (talk) 23:28, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Thirty malls prodded
Has anyone else noticed that there are a large number of prodded malls? Unscintillating (talk) 01:22, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Why so many? That would be odd to have so much show up at once, unless one editor is on a tear.--Milowent • hasspoken  04:52, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Epeefleche has been on a mall proding spree for a few days now:WikiProject_Shopping_Centers/Article_alerts Me5000 (talk) 00:02, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

City Creek Center
There is an article on the City Creek Center that is in dire need of sourcing, referencing and rewriting. I would take it on by myself however I feel someone more experienced would do a much better job. all the info is there but the references do not add up to the content. thanks Wrightie99 (talk) 21:59, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

File:Ellsworth Place rendering.jpg
Currently, the article Ellsworth Place contains a drawing of the mall, instead of a photo. Since this mall currently exists, should we be using a drawing? -- 70.51.203.69 (talk) 07:23, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

ANI thread re: some recent PRODs/AfDs/redirects of mall articles
There is currently an ANI thread that could probably benefit from editors familiar with this topic: Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents. Softlavender (talk) 07:00, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for posting. Here is the link to the archived discussion: Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive892 Ottawahitech (talk) 15:30, 30 July 2016 (UTC)please ping me

Request for re-assessment of the article Plaza del Lago
The article Plaza del Lago in this Wikiproject (currently assessed as a stub-class article) is long since overdue for a re-assessment. I am requesting that an editor without bias towards this particular page (which I would possess, such disqualifying me from completing such an assessment myself) gives this article a new assessment. Much thanks!SecretName101 (talk) 20:09, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Help - mall redevelopment in Seattle area
The Totem Lake Mall is a topic I've been tracking almost since I started on Wikipedia. It's about to be reopened after major redevelopment as The Village at Totem Lake. Help and advice wanted; should there be a new article or continue with the old one? The infobox is getting pretty messy right now trying to work it into a single article. ☆ Bri (talk) 22:03, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello? Anybody? New mall is open, advice welcome. ☆ Bri (talk) 20:48, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

relevance and need for re-activation
This phenomenon is wide across the world, and has relevance for many other economic activities in any one country - hopefully the project can and will resurrect somehow... JarrahTree 14:47, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

piurpose-
I listed myself as a member back in 2007 & I've been reminded. I must first of all admit that my main activity in this area is to try to delete articles on those that are just directories, especially when they are parts of chains, with individual articles beinga list of store and transportation routes, both information better maintained on the chain's web site but I would be delighted if the project could work on actual company histories. I admit unfamiliarity witht the literaure, and I think the most useful thing that could be done now is to compile a list of potential RSs that give substantial information. I regret i have currently other priorities, but to the extent i have time TO help, i will try.  DGG ( talk ) 09:52, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Southdale Center and Questions!
Hey everyone! I've currently been mostly working on Southdale Center page trying to get it up to FA-class. Please help me if you can!

Also! Big news that I am debating on! I am trying to see if there would be interest in adopting the (mostly) inactive WP:Retailing and combining the scope of our project with that one to try and gain more users to join on the project! Would anyone be interested in the idea of merging the two projects together! Let me know! Thanks! Windyshadow32 (talk) 22:06, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

RfC on notability guidelines related to shopping malls
There is an RfC at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion regarding guidelines and the notability of shopping malls.

Question: Should existing guidelines be clarified (or a new guideline created) to provide more guidance between what is considered routine run of the mill coverage and what coverage will establish notability? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyBlue (talk • contribs) 01:15, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

GAR
Post Oak Mall, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 05:55, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Best procedure for former malls
What is the procedure for dealing with various infobox field values in Template:Infobox shopping mall for malls which have closed, or even been demolished? Do we set number_of_stores and number_of_anchors  to "0", blank the fields so they don't display at all, or keep some useful number such as the maximum number the mall has when in use, or the final number when it closed? Similarly, do we set floor_area to "0" when a mall is demolished?

I ran into this issue on Phillipsburg Mall, which has recently closed, and may or may not have been demolished. Meters (talk) 22:06, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like and turns it into something like
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from cite web, cite journal and doi.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Palette Town
Are any project members interested in updating Palette Town in Tokyo, per recent closure? --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 14:53, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Brentwood Town Centre
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Brentwood Town Centre that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. UtherSRG (talk) 20:28, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:108 North State Street
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:108 North State Street that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:27, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Horton Plaza Mall
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Horton Plaza Mall that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 13:51, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for University Mall (Little Rock, Arkansas)
University Mall (Little Rock, Arkansas) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Steelkamp (talk) 05:18, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments
Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a class parameter to WikiProject banner shell, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to WikiProject banner shell, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass WPBannerMeta a new custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:06, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

History section of this article needs citations.
I'm a Burlington, MA historian and webmaster who wrote a comprehensive article about the Burlington Mall (linked below). As I read the Wikipedia entry about the same mall, the history section doesn't match any of my research, or the research of other Burlington historians. Also, I'm a paid member of Newspaperarchive.com, which lets me search any keyword from any time period. I can't find a single article that mentions Bellwether Properties or a man named Vesili Matto, both key players in the Wikipedia article. It's very unusual to get ZERO matches for any name, let alone important names in a major commercial development. I notice the Wikipedia article has no citations for the history section. Can someone back up the facts presented? If not, I propose rewriting the history section myself.

Here's my article: https://burlingtonretro.com/burlington-turns-50/ Here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burlington_Mall_(Massachusetts)

Robert Fahey Burlington, MA 781-718-9872 cell BurlingtonRetro (talk) 17:52, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Adding inline stores
Malls have changed dramatically since the consensus has been reached to not include any inline stores, it makes sense to me that a clear indicator of a malls vibrancy would be to include more than just anchor retailers but up to several additional name brand tenants in a separate sentence to paint a full picture. For example, a mall can still have anchors but be a "dead mall" without inline stores which is pretty significant to note. Thoughts? Stupidcupid6 (talk) 17:13, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Such laundry lists of tenants never appear to add anything to the article, nor can I see how such a list would demonstrate the "vibrancy" of a mall, even with sourcing that goes beyond a mall directory. Nor has there ever been an explanation of which of the dozens to hundreds of stores should be listed. Alansohn (talk) 18:50, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree a laundry list sounds like too many, I mean just a few or enough to paint a more accurate picture. I think we might be able to all agree that a mall is certainly more vibrant with retailers that are not found in dead or dying malls like Apple for example. If I read about a mall having a store like Apple I would understand better what kind of mall that is. Stupidcupid6 (talk) 19:11, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * How would you select from what could be hundreds of tenants which ones show that a mall is "vibrant with retailers" and not a dead mall? Alansohn (talk) 11:45, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * To paint a more accurate picture would be to just name some tenants, there are obvious tenants that are more hard to find and would be noteworthy but really any inline tenants give you an idea of what the mall is like in general. Stupidcupid6 (talk) 20:32, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * There is simply no way to provide a list for every mall that would include obvious noteworthy tenants. I don't see how "any [list of] inline tenants give you an idea of what the mall is like in general", especially if these lists are provided without any source or with only the mall directory as a source. Anchors are given that name because they anchor the rest of the mall; there will be sources about the anchors and their role in the the mall. A random list of tenants adds nothing ad that's why consensus has been clear to exclude them, even with sources. Alansohn (talk) 22:09, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * There are stores which are much more noteworthy than others, these would obviously describe a mall further than anchors which are nearly the same at every mall. If there are any articles written about their presence being in the mall this would also help establish their notoriety. Stupidcupid6 (talk) 23:08, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Additions like this seem completely arbitrary. How is it being decided which of the ~200 stores at that mall are "prominent"? Given that Altar'd State doesn't even have a standalone Wikipedia article, why is it a "prominent" store that warrants being specifically being mentioned over the rest of these? Per WP:DUE these should not be mentioned unless there are reliable sources that directly and unambiguously demonstrate that any such store is a significant aspect of the mall, otherwise it's just another store in a mall of countless other stores. - Aoidh (talk) 23:03, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Content dispute at Valley View Center
There is a content dispute at Talk:Valley View Center The input of others would be appreciated. Magnolia677 (talk) 10:39, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Hilltop Horizon
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Hilltop Horizon that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 00:26, 4 June 2024 (UTC)