Wikipedia talk:WikiProject South Africa/Archive 6

Primary School Project
Hello

Just a quick note to mention that the following articles have been reviewed as part of Wikipedia Primary School Research Project. Feedback welcome and articles improvement as well of course :)
 * Children's Act, 2005 Access to review notes here,
 * Agriculture in South Africa Access to review notes here,

Anthere (talk) 14:41, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Merge nuclear articles
These two articles on nuclear power in South Africa should probably be merged and improved, seeing as the topic's so important to South African current affairs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_energy_in_South_Africa and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_programme_of_South_Africa AWildAppeared (talk) 17:51, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Upcoming "420 collaboration"

 * Note that Cannabis in South Africa has had a massive spike in page views over the last month, so now is a great time to expand and update it! Goonsquad LCpl Mulvaney (talk) 09:18, 15 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Legal to grow and smoke dagga in their own homes 30 March 2017. http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/how-the-western-cape-high-court-dagga-judgment-applies-to-you-20170331 http://citizen.co.za/news/news-national/1473818/users-can-now-grow-and-smoke-dagga-in-their-own-homes-court-rules/ Axxter99 (talk) 09:07, 15 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I had to get rid of the citation markup because it was driving me crazy on this page. I left the links intact, though. AWildAppeared (talk) 17:59, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Articles for WikiProject South Africa
How do I add articles to this project or request re/assessment of quality/importance? AWildAppeared (talk) 17:57, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * add the banner to the talk page. I use a tool called Rater - simplifies the task and lets you specify class etc Gbawden (talk) 16:38, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Would you link that tool here? I can't find it. AWildAppeared (talk) 19:51, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * IIRC its part of Twinkle. Go to Preferences at the top of the page then Gadgets Gbawden (talk) 07:32, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report
We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, will post at /Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of. We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:
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Credibility and standing of SAMA's
Interesting discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pascal & Pearce Gbawden (talk) 17:56, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Linkspam and advertorial content in articles about beach resort towns
I've just taken a look at Hermanus, Struisbaai, Jeffreys Bay, Margate, KwaZulu-Natal, and Mtunzini. These articles are full of advertorial content, much of it either unsourced or including refspam and linkspam. These are just a few that I've looked at, there may well be other articles with similar problems. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:30, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Malashe ka Khawuta
Hello,

An article for Malashe ka Khawuta was created recently. Would somebody please take a look into it? A little improvement to the article is requested. Currently, it does not cite any sources. Thanks. :-) — usernamekiran (talk)  17:46, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The best person to fix the problem is the original author of the content, . -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:15, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Oakbay Investments
I think it may be a good idea to create a page about Oakbay Investments, by initially splitting off relevant content from Gupta family (which should really be primarily about the family itself) and gathering other material from articles about "related" companies, incidents and issues. There is also quite a flurry of new source material comming up in the mainstream press. Please feel free to contribute to Draft:Oakbay Investments. -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:04, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, I think you are right. Oakbay Investments is a company that is clearly notable enough to have a Wikipedia page of its own and I would be happy to help out where I can.  It would also help shrink the increasingly long and large Gupta family page.--Discott (talk) 13:04, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi please feel free to join in,  has already contributed some content. Any other interested editors are also welcome of course. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:03, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I will look into it. With regards to Wikipedia stuff I am currently a bit distracted with this whole Freedom of Panorama issue but when I get a chance to breath from that I will take a stab at it as well.--Discott (talk) 17:24, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Zuma Must Fall
These protests having going for quite a while now and should really have an article about them. Currently, we only have a redirect. Charles Essie (talk) 22:03, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree, we most probably should have an article documenting protests against the Zuma government in general and/or the Zuma Must Fall movement in particular. I would be more supportive of the creation of a broader article on the protests against Zuma though as one on Zuma Must Fall would exclude a number of relevant, mission aligned, protest movements with little space for their inclusion.  We just need to find the time to create the article. Charles Essie would you like to be bold and take a shot at it?--Discott (talk) 13:09, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't know where to start. I'm not very experienced in this. Charles Essie (talk) 17:11, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Editathon?
Does anyone happen to know if an editathon or a Wikipedia school class is taking place in SA on Friday 28 through Saturday 29 JUly? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:34, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, on the 29th. See here.--Ipigott (talk) 12:00, 29 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Any idea who is running it? A whole raft of 1 line stubs has arrived over the last 2 hours and they are pretty much all slated for deletion.And that would be a shame. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:09, 29 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Look at the link I sent you. View the video. I've been trying to save a few. Try at least to encourage further editing and referencing. Next time, if you want a prompt answer, please ping me.--Ipigott (talk) 11:03, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

COI waiting review
Hello. There is a conflict of interest edit request over at Talk:Nquthu Local Municipality that needs attention. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 21:31, 3 August 2017 (UTC)


 * As the requester, thanks for this - but now that I'm reminded of it I've withdrawn the request since it was written before the special election which has now happened, so the situation has moved on. Thanks again. - htonl (talk) 21:57, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Dirk Coetsee (1655-1725) and Coetsenburg
Hello! I am so glad to have been directed to this page and very happy that it exists! I am new to Wikipedia, thank you for being patient while I learn. I have written two new articles, and spent a considerable number of days researching references. I was hoping that an experienced editor here could review and accept if suitable, that is if no-one has looked at them already. The articles focus on the progenitor of the Coetsee/Coetzee family and their estate Coetsenburg in Stellenbosch. I have noticed that there are some articles about the old wine estates of the Cape Winelands region on Wikipedia, but not all of them are covered yet and I may be able to contribute meaningfully. I have, for example, also submitted articles on Meerlust and Nooitgedacht. Here are the two articles mentioned above:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Dirk_Coetsee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Coetsenburg

Thank you, and thanks for creating this fantastic page!Philemon Matilda (talk) 12:55, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Change of ruling party in Ubuntu Local Municipality
I have updated the article with the details of the change from DA/Independent control to ANC control, but I'm not sure if any other related articles also need to be updated. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:23, 23 August 2017 (UTC)


 * I think the 2016 Election page will need updating. Will make a change to ANC minority. Conlinp (talk) 05:32, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Daggafari
Hi all,

User:MickeyDangerez is the webmaster of dagga.za.net and claims to be the creator of the neologism "Daggafari". He created the article Daggafari and the corresponding afwiki article Daggafarianisme. These articles are currently the subject of deletion discussions. I became aware of the Afrikaans article first, and after reading the English article, proposed it for deletion today. The term is, as far as I can tell, not in any way notable to Wikipedia standards. I would propose that the material in the new article gets merged to Cannabis in South Africa.

Mickey has consistently been completely open about his CoI in this matter, and has been willing to engage with other editors. He's understandably defensive at this point, but I I am confident that he will be keen to help build consensus, and after agreement is reached, to follow consensus. --Slashme (talk) 07:08, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Seeking feedback on Tswana vs Setswana
Your feedback is requested at Talk:List of Setswana medical terms. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 04:07, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Cannabis in South Africa merge help needed
We need help merging the content from Daggafari into the Cannabis in South Africa article. Please see Talk:Cannabis in South Africa for my initial comments. I have to do my 100 WikiDays article for afwiki now, but I'll come back tomorrow and do some serious hacking to help get it into shape: it's not OK the way it is, but I would like to see this as an opportunity to work collaboratively and thrash out a good solution. --Slashme (talk) 19:31, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Cannabis in South Africa
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Cannabis in South Africa. -- Marchjuly (talk) 15:08, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

14th Cape Town meetup
I am trying to get the Cape Town meetups started up again, partly in preparation for Wikimania 2018 which will be held in Cape Town in July next year. As such there will be a Wiki-meetup at the deails below:
 * Date: Sunday, 29 October 2017
 * Location:Truth Coffee, 36 Buitenkant St, Cape Town 8000, South Africa  NOT to be confused with the Truth Coffee at the Prestwich Memorial.
 * Time: 11:00am - 2:00pm

You can see more at the 14th Cape Town meetup page.--Discott (talk) 14:50, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

South African Women in Science
Currently there is a project to write articles on South African women in science. If you are interested in helping in any way please check it out at the project page at the link below:
 * Under-representation of science and women in Africa: Wikimania 2018 an opportunity to bridge the gap. --Discott (talk) 09:19, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Geology of South Africa
The article has just arrived in mainspace, it's nowhere near comprehensive yet, please help improve it. As a major core "Xxxxxx of South Africa" article it should be a fairly high priority. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:44, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Wax Dey
A Cameroonian urban musician based in South Africa. My first Africa article. Can someone take a look at a it? May be edit it a bit improve the article? Aditya (talk • contribs) 02:08, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject
Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_South_Africa

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.&mdash; Rod talk 18:44, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation for Nasrec
For the article referring to the suburb nasrec I added that it may refer to the Expo Centre Johannesburg and the 54th National Conference of the African National Congress. I was wondering if it may warrant a disambiguation page. - Martinmenge (talk) 06:53, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to say no. We may make the association briefly now that its topical but will perhaps be forgotten over time Gbawden (talk) 07:08, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Should South Africa articles use "continental system" numbers?
Does the "consistency within articles" MoS guideline (MOS:ARTCON) apply to number formats? For example, should South Africa have "Population: $54,956,900$" and Table Mountain have "Elevation: 1 084,6 metres (3  558 ft)"?

The convention in South African English seems to be to format numbers according to the "continental system", ie comma as the decimal mark and a gap as the thousands separator, (argued here, law here page 55).

This issue is liable to impact at least the 4,800 articles transcluding Use South African English, if not all 25,428 project ZA pages. Note that, because of screen reader issues, all numbers greater than 1,000 (except dates) will need to be template-formatted, eg with val or gaps, for example 1 084,6 → 1  084,6. Clearly Infobox South African town etc would have to change accordingly. Batternut (talk) 23:45, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

One counter argument, along MOS:RETAIN lines, might be that the code of English used currently is to use South African English spellings but with non-continental numbers. Another argument might stem from MOS:COMMONALITY, in that intelligibility to English-speaking readers worldwide suggests overriding the local language variant.

Relevant policies and guidelines (mostly under MOS:ENGVAR) are: Notes: Batternut (talk) 23:45, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * MOS:ARTCON: within a given article the conventions of one particular variety should be followed consistently.
 * MOS:RETAIN: When an English variety's consistent usage has been established in an article, maintain it in the absence of consensus to the contrary.
 * WP:TITLEVAR: Very rarely, a form that is less common locally is chosen because it is more intelligible to English-speaking readers worldwide (e.g. Ganges rather than "Ganga").
 * MOS:COMMONALITY: ten million is preferable to one crore (Indian English).
 * The "continental system" seems to follow International System of Units.
 * I couldn't use Template:Convert for Table Mountain as it can't (yet) do commas for the decimal mark, (ie 1,084.6 m).
 * For spaces instead of commas, you can already use val: $123,456,789$ → $123,456,789$. The MoS doesn't disallow that.  It doesn't seem to handle commas as a decimal mark, though. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:04, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Mentioned already, but you formatted it better, so I've copied it ;) thanks. Batternut (talk) 07:54, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

My experience is that in actual SA English the most common use is a point as decimal mark and a space as thousands separator. The comma as decimal mark is much less used in English (although I believe it is common in Afrikaans). To demonstrate this, here are some recent articles from the major English-language SA media, all of which use the decimal point and not the comma:. I am absolutely against any change to use the comma as decimal mark in SA articles; we should follow actual practise not an obscure law from the 1970s. - htonl (talk) 09:15, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree with htonl. The comma is hardly ever seen as a decimal separator in South Africa, and Wikipedia should follow actual usage and not a standard or law that is largely ignored. Zaian (talk) 12:47, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
 * That brings back memories. I was an engineering student at Stellenbosch when that came out and it was all a big deal for a year or three, bur seemed to fizzle out after a while. I wouldn't take it too seriously, and certainly would not support a move to change to consistent comma decimal indicator for South African subject matter articles. I think most South Africans would understand either a comma or point as a decimal sign, and we are more likely to use spaces as separators than commas, which would cause confusion if there is only one and no point. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 15:35, 21 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I think one should use the thousands separator and decimal point in articles that have a strong association with South Africa or South African English. (i.e. 1 234 567.00). This can be done with undefined undefined . This is the convention in South Africa. I made changes to South Africa in this regard but Batternut changed this; see discussion at his/her talk page here Waddie96 (talk) 09:18, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Bakaa
Are these baTswana in South African context or including Botswana. I am a moTswana of the BaKaa tribe ba bina Tlou and I see we are not listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.231.173.251 (talk) 10:58, 14 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Please explain further so I can assist. Waddie96 (talk) 09:20, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Should existing South Africa articles be changed to use gaps as thousands separators?
From the discussion above it seems that in South African English the effective convention is to to use gaps as thousands separators, ie to write numbers as $1,234,567.8$, rather than 1,234,567.8. Currently most articles do not use this convention, for example South Africa. Should such articles be changed now to use gaps as thousands separators? Thanks, Batternut (talk) 17:36, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * No, per MOS:COMMONALITY, MOS:STYLERETAIN, and MOS:DIGITS; plus the fact that MOS:ENGVAR is being completely misunderstood and miscited.

MOS:DIGITS: "$1,234,567.8$" is a style "especially recommended for articles related to science, technology, engineering or mathematics", and "South Africa" doesn't qualify. The claim that this is some kind of national standard is easily disproved; it's simply favoured by particular news publishers. Two closely related points: A) WP is not written in news style as a matter of policy, so the style favoured in SA news sources is irrelevant. And if you look at it, it's neither consistent from publication to publication (Times Live and Mail & Guardian don't use the gappy style but News 24 does, while Mail & Guardian confusingly uses it to the left of the decimal  but not to the right ), nor compatible with MoS, e.g. frequently employing awful constructions like "R23billion" with no spacing, etc. News writing is not encyclopedia writing.) "National" usage in SA provably varies, with "1,234,567.8" style well-attested in mainstream publishing there. B) Most importantly of all, our articles on a particular place are not written especially for the people who live there, but mostly for everyone who does not and needs basic info about the place. The local style quirks are of no concern to us at all, or we'd be writing articles on Texas with lots of "y'all" and "ain't". MOS:ENGVAR is not about pride-of-place, nor about editorial control by one group of editors against another; it's exactly the opposite, a dispute-prevention mechanism: do not change any [MoS-acceptable] style from one version to another on nationalism grounds unless a) it's provably a near-universal in the dialect in question (not true here), b) there's a strong national tie to the subject (true), and c) the style distinction is completely arbitrary and WP has no reason to care one way or another (not true again; a "don't care" case is, e.g., colour vs. color, or boot vs. trunk of a car). WP have a reason to care here, namely MOS:COMMONALITY: every English speaker understands "1,234,567.8", while only a subset understand "$1,234,567.8$". Their concentration in technical/academic professions and, apparently, South Africa is incidental, but clearly distinguishable. Maths editors claim (rather dubiously) that anyone capable of understanding WP's advanced maths and other technical articles is already familiar with that notation; this is certainly not true of everyone capable of understanding articles about South Africa. Finally, even if using "$1,234,567.8$" were entirely acceptable in non-technical material (it's not) and even if it were an ENGVAR matter (it's not), using "1,234,567.8" everyday, universal English style is also perfectly acceptable, and we don't change from one acceptable style to another without a very good reason, per MOS:STYLERETAIN. Doing it to SA articles will not only fail to improve them for anyone (objectively speaking, even if it subjectively made them more pleasing for some), it will make them palpably and objectively worse (less understandable) for many readers. There's actually a good additional reason to to do it in this case: copy-pasting (or otherwise text-extracting) "$1,234,567.8$" results in "1234567.8", a less user-friendly result in regular prose than "1,234,567.8". Using "$1,234,567.8$" or "1234567.8" is more appropriate in tabular data, where sorting and other direct numeric manipulation might be expected for one WP:REUSE or another; probably no one, with any tools, is parsing regular WP article paragraphs for numeric strings and doing calculations with them, but they might well be doing this with, say, consistently presented tables of economic data, which are easy to import into spreadsheets and databases, and where the commas would interfere with treatment as floating-point numbers rather than as text strings.


 * — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ &gt;ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ&lt;  01:40, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment: every English speaker understands "1,234,567.8", while only a subset understand "1 234 567.8" (quoting SMcCandlish in the collapsed comment above) - I think most South Africans (technical or non-technical) would understand both (and as an aside, I suspect most would understand "1,234 as 1.234, not 1234). But as for other English speakers not understanding "1 234 567.8", wow, I had no idea. I am glad I live in South Africa where we are exposed to multiple varieties of English and other languages, and don't get confused by such things! Zaian (talk) 09:32, 23 December 2017 (UTC)


 * ÝES Articles written in South African English, should follow the style of SAE. MOS:DIGITS specifically states that either commas or narrow gaps can be used to separate thousands, the choice just has to be consistent throughout a given article. South African English style guides and government language style guides specifically state that spaces are the correct form of separating thousands. Furthermore South African law, namely South African Government Notice R.1146, makes the space and comma variant the only recongnised system in the country. What speakers of other forms of English do is irrelevant, MOS:DIGITS allows its use and thus articles written in SAE should conform to the correct style usage of SAE. As to people not understanding 1 234 567.8 I cannot agree to at all, it is much more likely for someone to confuse 123,456 than 123 456, especially in the context of SAE.--DSBennie (talk) 22:42, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Repeat: 'MOS:DIGITS: "$1,234,567.8$" is a style "especially recommended for articles related to science, technology, engineering or mathematics", and "South Africa" doesn't qualify.' That seemed pretty clear the first time.  Again: We have concrete proof that SA publications, intended for general SA audiences, also use "1,234,567.8", meanwhile those that use "$1,234,567.8$" style don't do so consistently within the same genre or even the same publication.  I had originally collapse-boxed my set of arguments above but will expand them so people actually read them.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ &gt;ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ&lt;  22:12, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * "is especially recommended", that does in no way preclude its use in other types of articles, it just recommends that no other system is used in those sort of articles. MOS:DIGITS does in no way preclude its use in South African articles. Arguments can be made for MOS:COMMONALITY and MOS:STYLERETAIN, but MOS:DIGITS is most certainly not a reason to prevent its use. --DSBennie (talk) 22:56, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * No,   SMcCandlish has already done a good job of listing the reasons why but I will repeat MOS:COMMONALITY, MOS:STYLERETAIN, and MOS:DIGITS as important reasons. I want to add that I find the comma system to be easier to read but that is more of a personal preference as apposed to the convention related reasons already mentioned. Zaian is also right in pointing out that most South Africans will likely understand both conventions easily enough.--Discott (talk) 17:07, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * No. I see no convincing evidence that there is an "effective convention". I would go with MOS:STYLERETAIN provided that the existing style is adequately intelligible. · · · Peter (Southwood) (talk): 07:09, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Mayor of Johannesburg
I notice that the Mayor of Johannesburg article only lists post-1995 mayors but there are a few earlier mayors contained within Category:Mayors of Johannesburg. Just wondering if this is correct. Hack (talk) 05:06, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The Mayor of Johannesburg article refers to the executive mayors of the modern municipality of the City of Johannesburg. The category Category:Mayors of Johannesburg should be dealing with all mayors, not just the modern executive ones. So I think both are correct as is, although it would help if the Mayor of Johannesburg article was expanded to explain its powers and its role in city management. --DSBennie (talk) 18:55, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * That may be the current scope, but I see no reason why previous mayors cannot be covered by the article - otherwise the name should change. The article should explain the powers of the mayor, and how they have varied over time. Batternut (talk) 19:03, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * If the name has stayed the same but the scope has changed, perhaps it could be displayed in a similar way to the List of mayors of New York City. Hack (talk) 02:33, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes indeed, that's a good model to follow. Batternut (talk) 13:40, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Lorry or truck?
In South African English, do you use the word "lorry" or "truck"? Mjroots (talk) 16:20, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I have seen both used, but truck is the preferred term in SAE. It is also pretty much the exclusively used term in news sources in South Africa.--DSBennie (talk) 18:16, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The issue has now been resolved in the 2018 Kroonstad train crash article. Assistance now sought expanding it from SA news sources. Mjroots (talk) 18:19, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Gun Owners South Africa
Hi

I wish to edit the Gun Owners of South Africa wikipedia entry to add a large amount of new detail about the organisation. The organisation has morphed and grown considerably to what is currently shown there. However, the 'edit' buttons are missing, thus I cannot do what I need to do. It was suggested I come here to ask about this. I have an active interest in and am an expert in South African firearm legislation (I have already added edits to the Firearms Control Act wiki page due to inaccuracies etc), and would appreciate being added to any groups necessary, or at least being directed in the correct way. I am a volunteer with Gun Owners South Africa, and am very active within the organisation as well.

Regards

Jonathan Wright

Decima ZA (talk) 10:11, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia workshop in Cape Town: Saturday 20th January
Wikimedia South Africa (the South Africa chapter for Wikimedia editors) is running a number of Wikipedia workshops at the American Corner at the Central Library Cape Town this year as we run up to the Wikimania 2018 conference on the 18-22 July at the University of Cape Town.

The first workshop of the year will be happening this Saturday the 20th January (from 10:00 to 16:00) at the American Corner at the Cape Town Central Library on Grand Parade. The event is open to the public and people are welcome to come and go as they please throughout the day. You are welcome to bring your own computer but you don't have to if you don't want to as the American corner will have devices we can use.
 * Where: American Corner, Cape Town Library, 1 Parade St, Cape Town City Centre, Cape Town, 8000
 * When: Saturday, 20th January 2018, 10:00-16:00

So if you are interested in learning more about Wikipedia, Wikimania, Wikimedia South Africa or just want to hang out then please join us. --Discott (talk) 10:01, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Assistance please - Barclays Africa
Hi there Wikipedians,

I am a paid employee of the communications company for Barclays Africa Group Limited (BAGL). We've just posted on the Talk page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barclays_Africa_Group#Factual_inaccuracies) highlighting several aspects that are factually inaccurate/ out of date. I would sincerely appreciate any assistance you can provide in making changes that are possible. They are all referenced. However, as a newbie to Wiki, I was not able to keep formatting or clearly mark the changes, so the table has come 'undone' as such. Assistance with that would also be helpful, as Dr Google was not.

Thanks so much, and have an awesome 2018.

Nicola Mawson (talk) 10:11, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Updated some of the old figures in the Infoxbox to 31 Dec 2016 - last annual report. Will update again after release of 2017 final figures. Updated the names of the 12 Key people. Will look at the rest of suggestions on talk page for relevancy later in the weekend.Conlinp (talk) 12:09, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Appreciate it Conlinp. How long does it take for the changes to reflect on the actual Wikipedia page? Nicola Mawson (talk) 05:19, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Generally changes are visible immediately (unless special protection measures are in place, which is not the case here). Batternut (talk) 14:51, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Conlinp and Batternut. I appreciate your assistance! Can you please update ownership figures? Barclays PLC holds 14.9% currently. I'm happy to send a Word doc showing highlighted changes, although I lose formatting when I paste into here. Nicola Mawson (talk) 08:59, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Nicola Mawson Found a reference and updated Barclays PLC ownership percentage (info box) and at two other places. Main ownership table will have to wait until 2017 Annual Report. Hope that helps.Conlinp (talk) 10:54, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks so much Conlinp! It is a bit incongruent though to have X% in the one section, and Y% in another. PLC (Barclays PLC) sold down quite a bit at end Nov, and the figures we sent are true as of that date. Thanks Nicola Mawson (talk) 11:22, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi Conlinp

Below is are the group’s 10 largest shareholders as at 30 November 2017:

Largest shareholders	30 November 2017 (%) Barclays Bank PLC (UK) 14.9 Financial Institutions on behalf of Public Investment Corporation (SA) 7.12 Old Mutual Asset Managers (SA)	4.62 Allan Gray	4.13 BlackRock, Inc. (US, UK)	2.95 Prudential Investment Managers (SA)	2.95 The Vanguard Group (US, AU)	2.70 Schroders PLC (US)	1.96 Mondrian Investment Partners (UK)	2.22 Sanlam Investment Management	1.90 Other	46.07

Nicola Mawson (talk) 10:19, 15 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi Nicola Mawson. The site is locked out, Wikipedia requires references that are accessible by all users for verification. A suggestion would be to have the Barclays Africa webpage updated as that is where the original reference and information came from. Sorry I cant help you further. Regards Paul.Conlinp (talk) 04:44, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi Conlinp,

I've searched all over, and the only publicly-available source is via IOL. However, as it's a widget, there is no link. The SENS is pasted below, and here is the link for verification: https://www.iol.co.za/business-report/market-indicators

1 Dec 2017, 8:14	 	BARCLAYS AFRICA GROUP LIMITED - Further reduction by Barclays PLC of its shareholding in Barclays Africa to 14.9% and section 122 notice BGA 201712010011A Further reduction by Barclays PLC of its shareholding in Barclays Africa to 14.9% and section 122 notice

BARCLAYS AFRICA GROUP LIMITED Incorporated in the Republic of South Africa Registration number: 1986/003934/06 ISIN: ZAE000174124 JSE share code: BGA (“Barclays Africa”)

FURTHER REDUCTION BY BARCLAYS PLC (“BARCLAYS”) OF ITS SHAREHOLDING IN BARCLAYS AFRICA TO 14.9% AND SECTION 122 NOTICE

1. FURTHER REDUCTION BY BARCLAYS OF ITS SHAREHOLDING IN BARCLAYS AFRICA TO 14.9%

On 1 June 2017, shareholders were advised that Barclays had reduced its total interest in Barclays Africa to 23.4% from 50.1%, in addition to which: - 1.5% would be contributed by Barclays to a broad-based black economic empowerment (“B- BBEE”) scheme in due course; and - 7.0% would be taken up by the Public Investment Corporation SOC Limited (“PIC”) on a deferred completion, subject to receipt of all necessary regulatory approvals by the PIC, following which Barclays’ total interest in Barclays Africa would be approximately 15%.

On 4 September 2017, a transaction was effected in which the 1.5% stake in Barclays Africa was transferred from Barclays to an interim B-BBEE structure which was established by Barclays Africa, and accordingly Barclays’ total interest in Barclays Africa was reduced to 21.9%. The intention is that these shares will be held in the interim B-BBEE structure for a period before ultimately being applied towards a new Barclays Africa B-BBEE scheme. Further details will be announced in due course.

As noted above, the transfer of the 7.0% stake in Barclays Africa to the PIC is subject to regulatory approval. Pending receipt of such approvals, pursuant to an agreement between Barclays, the PIC and the local subsidiaries of two international financial institutions (the “Financial Institutions”), Barclays transferred (subject to settlement) the 7.0% stake in Barclays Africa to the Financial Institutions on 30 November 2017. This agreement is broadly a continuation of the previous agreement between Barclays and the PIC and was therefore concluded at a price of R136.09 per share. The intention is: - for the Financial Institutions to hold 4.0% and 3.0%, respectively, in Barclays Africa (at which level, no regulatory approval is required); and - for the PIC to ultimately take ownership of the 7.0% stake in Barclays Africa from the Financial Institutions, subject to it receiving all necessary regulatory approvals. Following the contribution to the interim B-BBEE structure and the transfer to the Financial Institutions, Barclays’ total interest in Barclays Africa is at 14.9%. Barclays has indicated that this represents its desired long term shareholding in Barclays Africa and that no further sales are planned at this time.

2. SECTION 122 NOTICE

Pursuant to the above and in accordance with section 122 (3)(b) of the Companies Act, No. 71 of 2008 (“the Companies Act”) and section 3.83(b) of the Listings Requirements of the JSE Limited, Barclays Africa shareholders are advised that Barclays Africa has received formal notification from Barclays that its total interest in Barclays Africa has been reduced to 126,145,303 ordinary shares (14.9%) from 185,487,851 ordinary shares (21.9%).

As required in terms of Section 122 of the Companies Act, the required notice will be filed with the Takeover Regulation Panel.

Johannesburg 1 December 2017

Enquiries: Alan Hartdegen (Head of Investor Relations) +27 (0) 11 350 2598 E-mail: Alan.Hartdegen@barclaysafrica.com

Independent lead sponsor to Barclays Africa: J.P. Morgan Equities South Africa Proprietary Limited

Joint sponsor to Barclays Africa: Corporate and Investment Bank, a division of Absa Bank Limited

Date: 01/12/2017 08:14:00 Produced by the JSE SENS Department. The SENS service is an information dissemination service administered by the JSE Limited ('JSE'). The JSE does not, whether expressly, tacitly or implicitly, represent, warrant or in any way guarantee the truth, accuracy or completeness of the information published on SENS. The JSE, their officers, employees and agents accept no liability for (or in respect of) any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential loss or damage of any kind or nature, howsoever arising, from the use of SENS or the use of, or reliance on, information disseminated through SENS.

Nicola Mawson (talk) 13:01, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi, Conlinp I have sourced this, which is an official SENS, but from the company's website.

https://www.barclaysafrica.com/content/dam/barclays-africa/bagl/pdf/sens/2017/jul-dec/BAGL-final-sens-announcement.pdf

I trust this works. Nicola Mawson (talk) 10:54, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Please assist at National anthem of South Africa
See the latest few edits and assist an obviously good faith new editor to avoid an edit war. I requested User:HansNel to discuss the edits on the article talk page, some third party guidance would be appreciated. Thanks Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:59, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

GA nomination of Johnny Clegg
I have just nominated Johnny Clegg for a GA review. I'd appreciate it if someone would do the review with me. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:27, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Separating Apartheid Era South Africa and the modern Republic of South Africa Page
What do you guys think of doing that? There's just such a big difference between the two it might be useful to have an overview of the country before the end of Apartheid and after. From when it became a republic until the end of the national party governance in 1994. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SailingOn (talk • contribs) 18:38, 11 February 2018 (UTC)


 * What are you proposing, exactly? Splitting the South Africa article into two separate articles, like Zimbabwe and Rhodesia? -- Katan gais (talk) 19:01, 11 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Splitting South Africa is clearly not a viable option, I think there may be scope for a new article. Republic of South Africa is currently a redirect to South Africa but Union of South Africa exists as a separate article. Republic of South Africa could serve as such an overview article - we are in fact currently the "third republic" (to borrow a term from the French). First was the 1961 constitution, second was the Tricameral Parliament era of the constitution of 1983, then the third and current post-apartheid dispensation of the mid 1990's (interim constitution of 1994 and current 1996 constitution). Coverage of the three constitutional systems is not comprehensive yet so there is plenty space for developing further articles. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:32, 15 February 2018 (UTC)


 * May I suggest the creation of Draft:Constitutional history of South Africa as an overview starting from the Treaty of Vereeniging and the creation of the Union of South Africa up to the present. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:56, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Draft:South African presidential election 2018
I've quickly put together the above draft, please feel free to contribute as events develop. Keep in mind this article is meant to only cover today's election and its aftermath. It may of course at some point be merged into a larger article but I thought it best to draft it as a distinct separate article. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:20, 15 February 2018 (UTC)


 * South African presidential election, 2018 is now a "live" mainspace article, please feel free to improve it. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:10, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Current politicians - and redirects
Hallo, is creating a large number of well-sourced stubs for current SA ministers (I've found some while stub-sorting), but they are often using short forms of name which do not correspond to those in the template Current MPs of South Africa. Eg Pam Tshwete: when I added a redirect in from Pamela Tshwete it linked from a vast number of articles, many but not all via that template - see here. Someone familiar with SA politicians might like to tidy up that template, or create the redirects, or move the articles. Over to you.

And to everyone, a plea: please create redirects, dab page entries, or hatnotes from all plausible versions of a subject's name - you never know when they'll turn up on some formal list with their full Sunday name, or appear with their married/maiden name, or some different number of middle names. Redirects are free and enhance our encyclopedia: they help the reader find what they want, and reduce the chance of some future enthusiastic editor creating a duplicate article at another title! Thanks. Pam D  09:06, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Northern Cape cricket team
Sorry, all. Forget this. I missed a trick. Good luck with your project. 86.177.251.187 (talk) 05:09, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Oakbay Investments
I have a draft about the company in my userspace at User:Dodger67/Sandbox/Oakbay Investments. I'm looking for interested editors to collaborate with me in completing the draft. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:22, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

South African English Article Updates
Hi everyone, In the next few weeks I plan to edit and add to the South African English page. I have noticed that much of the material on this page is uncited, and the lead section could use some streamlining. I will primary focus on areas of phonetics and sociolinguistics, since these areas are the focus of the class I am doing research for. Let me know if you have any suggestions or helpful resources!Sparks9714 (talk) 23:52, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Ending the system of portals
Hello, there's a proposal to delete all Wikipedia portals. Please see the discussion here. --NaBUru38 (talk) 14:02, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Assistance please, updates to finances, executives and shareholders at Barclays Africa
Hi all,

I would appreciate your kind assistance once again. Barclays Africa has recently published annual results, and shuffled its executive.

I have added several changes to the Barclays Africa page, and my input can be viewed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barclays_Africa_Group#Financial,_shareholding_and_executive_updates

I have also updated the shareholding table re major shareholders and geographic split.

I'd appreciate assistance in updating these changes, as the page is a quite out of date.

Thanks so much! And a great long weekend for all! Nicola Mawson (talk) 19:27, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Donald Sole
Hello. Is anyone here interested in creating Ambassador Donald Sole's article please? And feel free to expand Herbert Beukes if you can. I created it as his name came up while I was reading Ron Nixon's book, but I have no intention to expand it. Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 02:46, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Capitalisation of races
Howzit all.

There has been a recent discussion at Talk:Apartheid concerning the capitalisation of races. I have generally objected to this practice because capitalising races is not covered under MOS:CAPS, but raised the interesting point that "black South African" is considered a reference to all races other than white than South Africa, including Coloureds and Asian South Africans. Duma has suggested that we capitalise "Black" on the Apartheid article accordingly.

As this may set a precedent for all articles written in South African English in the future, I want to ensure this topic is thoroughly discussed here. Should "Black" always be capitalised when used in reference to Bantu peoples in South Africa? Should lowercase "black" only be used as a general term to denote a non-white South African?

Thanks, -- Katan gais (talk) 17:05, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Agreed, thanks for considering my opinions :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DumaTorpedo (talk • contribs) 03:46, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * What evidence supports the options? &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 06:38, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * What evidence supports the options? &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 06:38, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi peter, the following sources back up my claims that “black” implies all those non-white ( especially Asians) in South Africa

MOS:CAPS does require races to be capatalised because when we are referring to a specific race, we are referring to a specific group of people and thus the terms Black South African and White South African for example are proper names which according the style and general practice in English need to start with a capital. --DSBennie (talk) 08:13, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

So in that case is the capitalization of race in Articles about South Africa acceptable along with the fact that “black” implies non-white and should be explained? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DumaTorpedo (talk • contribs) 02:50, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * That's what the discussion here is supposed to establish. Personally, I'd like to hear more input from more South African contributors, several of whom are quite active on this WikiProject.


 * On another note, I was hoping that most of the sources cited for establishing this precedent have to do with Coloured and Asian self-identification as black rather than their classification under BEE legislation. Duma, do you have any sources for that? -- Katan gais (talk) 17:26, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

That would be hard to get,I am personally of Asian ancestry and identity as black and so do the Chinese South Africans who brought forward the 2008 request. Personal identification though is a opaque subject to find on the Internet and usually comes up from conversation. I do see your point though and apart from the Chinese community that brought up the request I will attempt to find more.Duma Torpedo

Here a few examples that prove that Indian South Africans have NOT conventionally ever been considered 'black' (capitalised or uncapitalised): Classical liberal za (talk) 04:05, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) In the South African national census Indians/Asians comprise a distinct category from that of black South Africans
 * 2) In the application of quota systems at public universities in South Africa, Indian people comprise a distinct group.
 * 3) The apartheid regime considered Indian people to be a distinct ethnic group evidenced by the fact that under the apartheid government created the South African Indian Council body in 1968 to deal with matters affecting Indian South Africans. Indian South Africans also received limited representation by the House of Delegates body, which was reserved for Indian South Africans, in the tricameral parliament from 1984-1994. Black South Africans were not entitled to any representation under apartheid.
 * 4) Jonathan Annipen's (of the Minority Front) statement that Malema was "trying very hard to frustrate the democratic gains of social cohesion and nation building and is deepening the divide between blacks and Indians." Annipen, an Indian man of a political party which enjoys large support from Indian South Africans, has clearly drawn a distinction between Indian and black people.
 * 5) Ayesha Fakie, an Indian South African who is the head of Sustained Dialogues at the Institute for Justice & Reconciliation in an article states "How we Indians benefit more from empowerment policies than black people..." This statement alone shows Fakie does not consider Indian South Africans to be 'black'.
 * 6) The news article regarding the National Funeral Practioners Association's call to "ban all white and Indian funeral companies from black communities..." again draws a distinction between Indian and black South Africans.
 * 7) A SASCO review of Black Economic Empowerment states "White people held 58.1% of senior management positions‚ black people held 22.1%‚ Indian people held 10.6%..." This shows that a distinction is drawn between Indian and black South Africans.
 * 8) A SAHO article on the history of Indian South Africans states "These laws shaped the political, economic and social fabric and experience of black, Coloured, Indian and white people in South Africa." . Again, this shows a distinction is made between Indian and black South Africans.

Yet the M&G, NEWS 24, WSJ, Telegraph, BBC ( with a combined reader base of millions) draw a distinction along with the law and the Asian ( which Indian South Africans fall under)community that brought forward the case that we are black. Along with Steve Biko and the black consciousness Movement ( with a massive following and a prominent force in the Struggle against Apartheid) that founded the idea that non-white has negative connotations.

To contextualize how does “non-black” sound? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DumaTorpedo (talk • contribs) 06:51, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

That's untrue - I quoted News24 and the M&G in points 4 and 6 and a distinction was drawn between black and Indian South Africans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Classical liberal za (talk • contribs) 05:07, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Read citations from NEWS24 and M&G distinguish, and the Asian Communities that brought the ruling forward? And the international sources? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DumaTorpedo (talk • contribs) 09:16, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say but I'll assume you are asking me to elaborate.

From the Mail & Guardian: From News24:
 * 1) "During apartheid, Indians were subjugated by the white regime, but were still considered superior to coloured and black people."
 * 1) "The association has been lobbying since December to ban all white and Indian owned funeral parlours from black communities"

The M&G and News24 quite clearly use uncapitalised 'black' to refer exclusively to Black African people. How would it be possible for Indian people to be considered superior to black people by the apartheid regime and be potentially excluded from owning funeral parlours in black communities if they are black? The statement that News24 and the M&G use 'black' to refer to Indians and Coloureds is patently false. Classical liberal za (talk) 11:27, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

The M&G and News24 (citation 6 and 5) also indicate that Asian communities ( who clearly self-identify as “black” since it was Asian communities that brought forward the case) are black. Please read the citations on the top of the page from the M&G and News24. Clearly classical liberal Za disregards The Asian communities own opinion on our classification as well as international and local sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DumaTorpedo (talk • contribs) 11:34, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Does the South African census explicitly use lowercase "black" to refer to Bantu peoples in South Africa? Thanks, -- Katan gais (talk) 19:31, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

No, the census uses “Black African” DumaTorpedo (talk) 07:09, 9 May 2018 (UTC)DumaTorpedo

Football or soccer?
A question has been posted on the Football/Soccer WikiProject about the correct terminology to use when dealing with SA subjects. It would be great if members of this project could contribute to the conversation. Thanks, Nzd   (talk)  00:31, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Generally in South African English it is soccer, very few people use football. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DumaTorpedo (talk • contribs) 09:25, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Jannie Marais
Good evening South African editors

I have written a draft article about Johannes Henoch Marais, also known as Jannie Marais (please follow link below). There is already an Afrikaans article about him in the Afrikaans Wikipedia (http://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jannie_Marais) but there is no English article so I thought I could help by writing one. If you think it's suitable, could you please accept?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Jannie_Marais_(Johannes_Henoch_Marais)#Jannie_Marais_(Johannes_Henoch_Marais)

Thank you Mockby 123 (talk) 16:33, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Name change
Hi all,

I am such a newbie, it's actually an embarrassment. However, could you please review suggestions here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barclays_Africa_Group#Name_change

Thanks.

BTW, the plagiarism (apparent) is because we edited what was on page, and didn't clearly show changes. Ta Nicola Mawson (talk) 16:40, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject
The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template Transclude lead excerpt.

The discussion about this can be found here.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

Background
On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive.

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page.

Thank you. &mdash; The Transhumanist  07:56, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Kringe in 'n Bos (Circles in a Forest)
Good afternoon South African Wikipedians

I have created a draft article about the well-known Afrikaans novel "Kringe in 'n Bos" (translated as "Circles in a Forest") by Dalene Matthee which is studied at South African schools. There is a short article about the novel in the Afrikaans Wikipedia, but there is no article in the English Wikipedia yet. Could an editor please review the article and accept, if it is acceptable?

Here is a link to the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Kringe_in_%27n_Bos_(Circles_in_a_Forest)#Kringe_in_'n_Bos_(Circles_in_a_Forest)

Thank you, Mockby 123 (talk) 15:54, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you you advise on this page title? Should this article be named Circles in a Forest (novel) or Kringe in 'n bos? Gbawden (talk) 05:35, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I think this is a question for WP:WikiProject Literature. What is the usual standard for translated works - is the original language title or the English translation preferred? BTW, it has been translated into English, Portuguese, Dutch, French, Icelandic, Spanish, Hebrew, German, Swedish, Italian, Finnish and Norwegian. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 06:37, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Magda Wierzycka
I need help completing this draft about a prominent SA businesswoman. The "Career" section in particular still needs to be written. I've listed many sources on the page. Unfortunately I just don't have the time to complete this before the draft goes "stale". If anyone is interested please feel free to pick up where I've left off. Thanks Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:53, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

3 drafts articles on Moonlighting Film Production Services & its co-owners Genevieve Hofmeyr & Phillip Key
Hello Wikipedians

I'm hoping my post catches the eye of an editor...

Below are links to 3 draft articles that I wrote, two of which were rejected. I have re-edited them extensively and found new sources. I have tried to include sources from the biggest American film-related publications in an effort to demonstrate that the information is factual - I don't know what more to do to convince the reviewers that it is legitimate other than to propose that they contact the film production companies themselves to verify the information. If there is a South African editor reading this post, could you please take a look and accept the articles if you believe they are acceptable? Thank you.

MOONLIGHTING FILM PRODUCTION SERVICES http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Moonlighting_Film_Production_Services

GENEVIEVE HOFMEYR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genevieve_Hofmeyr

PHILLIP KEY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Phillip_Key

Thank you. Mockby 123 (talk) 10:04, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Wikimania in Cape Town
Hello everyone, just in case you are in South Africa (Cape Town more specifically) and have not heard it yet. This year's Wikimania will be taking place in Cape Town, South Africa at the Southern Sun Cape Sun Hotel on Strand Street from the 18th-22nd July with the main conference taking place from the 20th to the 22nd July. This is likely to be the only time it will come to Cape Town and quite possibly South Africa so now is the time to attend if you can.--Discott (talk) 16:12, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Finding latest articles related to South Africa
Hello,

What would be the best place to find the latest articles related to WikiProject:South Africa? I am currently trying to gather a list of articles needing improvement. Those articles would be improved during an edit-athon with South African librarians, as part of next Wikimania.

Best regards, African Hope (talk) 12:27, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * , The table at WikiProject_South_Africa should give you some idea of useful places to start. It does not classify by date, but it would be worth considering prioritising low quality rated articles of high importance. The ratings may not be up to date, so check what is there for yourself. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:21, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I took a look at a sample, and it is not clear why some of them are associated with this project, but it is a start. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 15:43, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you, that gives a good starting point. -- African Hope (talk) 20:27, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you, that gives a good starting point. -- African Hope (talk) 20:27, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Wrong info regarding Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika?
Re article about the Aberystwyth hymn tune https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberystwyth_(hymn_tune)

I really think the statement that there is a link between the Aberystwyth hymn tune and Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika needs some verfication by someone who knows more about music than I do. But my untrained ear (and even those of doctor in music as well as a South African composer whom I have asked) could hear no comparison whatsoever between: Hymn Aberystwyth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkWsY9PRRxU and Nkosi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKQ5zF6WA9o Mieliestronk (talk) 01:13, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree that they do not sound the same, and have requested a citation at the article.&middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 06:36, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Template not displaying
Could someone more technical please take a look at List of heritage sites in Cape Town CBD, the Waterfront, and the Bo-Kaap and see why the template is not displaying? Thanks Gbawden (talk) 06:54, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

RfC on election/referendum naming format
An RfC on moving the year from the end to the start of article titles (e.g. South African general election, 2019 to 2019 South African general election) has been reopened for further comment, including on whether a bot could be used move the articles if it closed in favour of the change: Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (government and legislation)/Archive 2. Cheers, Number   5  7  15:40, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Lots of South Africa templates nominated for deletion
See Templates for discussion/Log/2018 October 20. I have nominated a lot of unused templates that are to do with South Africa for deletion. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:06, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Leadership - factual errors
Hi all,

For some odd reason, Absa Group's leadership has erroneously been changed to reflect people who are not on its exec committee. I've requested a change on the Absa page, but this has not been actioned yet - please can someone look into it urgently?

Thanks so much!

BTW, I have a conflict of interest as I work for Corporate Image, which is paid for by Absa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ABSA_Group_Limited

Nicola Mawson (talk) 07:34, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Heuningvlei: translation
Who did this weird translation? It simply means "honey lake"..."honey waters"...directly translated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C0:5300:3810:2C19:A4C4:B136:153 (talk) 17:02, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Absa executive changes
Hi all,

I have just posted an update here on changes to Absa's executives:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ABSA_Group_Limited#Executive_changes

Thanks!

Nicola Mawson (talk) 13:46, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi all,

Please can the executive changes be made? Thanks so so much!

41.13.14.15 (talk) 07:54, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

John Steenhuisen education
There is currently coverage in news media about Steenhuisen's lack of a post-secondary qualification. Please see the article talk page where I posted an explanation of why I removed some material about it. This page needs close watching until the newsworthiness of the topic blows over. If any admin action is required I cannot do it as I have edited the article in connection with the matter, thus I am WP:INVOLVED. Thanks Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:03, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Didn't know you need education to be a politician. Hahaha. Conlinp (talk) 14:26, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
 * the less we say about that on WP the better, we'd rather not get dragged into the topic of a certain "honorable's" woodwork marks... Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:33, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Yoco
Hi all, i created a page about Yoco, a start-up from Cape Town, with a rising notority in Africa and in the world. The article is proposed for deletion now. I think it has totally the notority to be in Wikipedia :) what do you think ? Cheers, MathieuPaul1977 (talk) 16:46, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Here is the discussion Articles for deletion/Yoco Technologies, you are welcome to give your opinion :) MathieuPaul1977 (talk) 21:44, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Absa Group Limited page changes
Corp image (talk) 14:31, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi everyone

I submitted some suggested changes on the Absa Group Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ABSA_Group_Limited#Suggested_changes

Many thanks!

Stephanie

Corp image (talk) 15:04, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi there

Just a gentle reminder about the changes added to the Absa Group talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ABSA_Group_Limited#Suggested_changes

Thanks so much,

Stephanie

Timothy Ngcobo
Another editor has created Timothy Ngcobo, which has been tagged for speedy deletion as spam. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 04:23, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Requested move
Following on from this thread back in April 2018, I have opened RM request moving South Africa national football team to South Africa national soccer team as the term soccer seems to be more widely used that football. Local insight from members of this WikiProject would be greatly appreciated. Cheers – Ianblair23 (talk) 02:27, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Bradley Steyn
I wondering if someone from this WikiProject would mind taking a look at this article and perhaps advising at Talk:Bradley Steyn on how to best proceed. The article has already been prodded for deletion by another editor. If there might be a chance that Steyn is notable enough for a stand-alone article to survive an AfD, then it would probably be better for someone other than Esreekay to do the writing. Maybe someone more familiar with South African matters can assess whether Steyn's Wikipedia notability goes beyond WP:BLP1E. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:48, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Don't think the article will survive deletion. Probably better used as information to be contained within an article about the massacre itself.Conlinp (talk) 11:01, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Xhosa clan names
This "article" is a mess. Most of the content seems to be disorganized lists of names, though there also seems to be some commentary/explanation in Xhosa interspersed among the "lists". The only English on the page is a brief intro. The article talk page appears to contain discussion in Xhosa too. Unless we can find a topic specialist willing to put in some work I'm afraid WP:TNT is going to be the only way to fix this. (I've crossposted this this to WT:WikiProject Anthroponymy.) Thanks Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:44, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Netwerk 24 or similar subs
Does anyone have a netwerk24 or timeslive subs - I need to read some articles about Terry Dempsey's death so I can write an article about him but everything is behind a paywall Gbawden (talk) 10:00, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

WP 1.0 Bot Beta
Hello! Your WikiProject has been selected to participate in the WP 1.0 Bot rewrite beta. This means that, starting in the next few days or weeks, your assessment tables will be updated using code in the new bot, codenamed Lucky. You can read more about this change on the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team page. Thanks! audiodude (talk) 06:46, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Richards Bay Coal Terminal
I have suggested on the article talk page that Richards Bay Coal Terminal should be moved/renamed and expanded. I'd be happy to discuss this with anyone interested. Fob.schools (talk) 16:40, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Orania, Northern Cape
The article at Orania, Northern Cape was nominated for Good Article review a long time ago. The original reviewer abandoned it and I took over. It now appears the nominator is no longer active here. I completed the review at Talk:Orania, Northern Cape/GA1 and it would be great if someone from here wants to go through my suggestions so they don't go to waste. If no one responds in another week or so I will have to fail it. AIRcorn (talk) 18:18, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Opinions requested for Outline of Cape Town
I am trying to sort out some lack of clarity in the Outline of Cape Town and some associated files. I would welcome some suggestions at Talk:Outline of Cape Town on what the scope should be and what some of the headings might mean. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 14:48, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Absa CEO changed
Good morning all,

We have requested a change to update Absa's CEO here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ABSA_Group_Limited#Absa_CEO_changed

Please could someone review it?

Thanks so much - and lekker Friday!

Nicola Mawson (talk) 05:38, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

A new newsletter directory is out!
A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.
 * – Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Updates to Absa page
Good morning,

We have requested updates to the Absa page to reflect the latest financial figures. Here is the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ABSA_Group_Limited#2018_Financial_Results

Please could someone implement if it's OK?

Thanks

Nicola Mawson (talk) 06:44, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Organisation/organization
There is an RfC on whether all Wikipedia categories should use the spelling "organization" (regardless of the respective country) taking place here. Number  5  7  19:19, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Cape Town Wiki Meetup 16
I will be hosting a Wikipedia meetup on the 2 June 2019 (Sunday) in Cape Town. Please join us for some free tea and coffee. Same place as awalys at the details below. Sorry it has taken me so long to organise another one of these. The meetup is open to everyone.

Date: Sunday, 2 June 2019 Location: Truth Coffee HQ, 36 Buitenkant St, Cape Town 8000, South Africa  NOT to be confused with the Truth Coffee at the Prestwich Memorial. See the map location here. Contact number: +27 21 200 0440 Time: Any time between 10:00 - 14:00

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. --Discott (talk) 11:20, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

What is the South African English term for what powers a lamp at home?
Mains electricity describes what this is called in the US, UK, and Canada, but not South Africa. It would be nice if folks more familiar with South African English could add a note explaining that. I'm also interested to know if there's a single term that would be intelligible globally, as "mains electricity" is apparently unfamiliar to many Americans. So if it's known by more than one term in South African English, that would be very helpful to know. Thanks! -- Beland (talk) 01:11, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * From what I can tell generally "mains electricity" is most commonly used in South Africa. Or simply just "mains" once the context has been set. At least that is the case in Cape Town.--Discott (talk) 08:54, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

ABSA page name change
Hi all,

We have requested a page name change from ABSA to Absa here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ABSA_Group_Limited Nicola Mawson (talk) 10:19, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The ABSA page on Wikipedia has an unfortunate history of POV editing and vandalism. Sometimes by people suspected of being associated with ABSA so it is good you are asking an independent editor here to make the change but it also makes people more suspicious of requested changes on that page as well.  Additionally you will need to provide references to justify the name change.  Additionally ABSA has been changing its name so frequently over the past few years from ABSA to Barclays to ABSA to this now so it might be best just to wait a while to see what name sticks.  Additionally "ABSA" is the most popular name that the bank is known by in South Africa however you would be right to point out that the official registered name is still often the main default name for a page, but it is worth remembering.  This is a long way of saying that I am inclined to leave the page as is for now but other editors are welcome to make the change should they wish to and there are good references to backup the name change. --Discott (talk) 09:00, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I see the rename has already happened. Thank you  for making that happen.--Discott (talk) 09:02, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Requested changes to Absa introduction
Good day,

We have requested changes to Absa here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Absa_Group_Limited

We would appreciate it being reviewed.

TIA

Nicola Mawson (talk) 14:15, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Change to introduction on Absa page - request
Good day all,

I have posted a requested change to the introduction on Absa's Wikipedia page that is more representative of the Group as it currently is.

I would appreciate if it could be reviewed. TIA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Absa_Group_Limited#Requested_change_to_introduction Nicola Mawson (talk) 07:10, 18 June 2019 (UTC)