Wikipedia talk:WikiProject South Africa/Archive 7

Change to Absa page
Good day all,

I have requested changes to Absa's page here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Absa_Group_Limited#Results_-_inconsistency_in_numbers

Please can this be resolved when someone has a moment. Thanks!

Nicola Mawson (talk) 06:21, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Fictional Provincial Flags
Apparently the only South African province with a proper provincial flag (as opposed to a Coat of Arms on white if a flag is called for) is Mpumalanga. Yet there is a whole category of provincial flags on Wikimedia Commons: (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Flags_of_provinces_of_South_Africa).

These flags are uncritically reduplicated on countless non-English language South African articles. Is there a way of dealing with this issue? Francoisdjvr (talk) 14:16, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * There are only two ways I can think of dealing with that issue. The first is to go to those Wikies and make the changes yourself and the second is to try and inform each of those Wiki communities that this is an issue.  I suspect that the first option is easier than the latter although you will likely find yourself explaining that to a couple people on those different Wikis anyway when they question the changes.--Discott (talk) 11:57, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

African Climate Change workshop
Hello everyone. I want to let everyone know of and invite project volunteers help out with (should you be interested) in the African Climate Change workshop and edit-a-thon that Wikimedia ZA and South South North will be running from the 6-8 August 2019. The event seeks to introduce around 40 climate change experts to editing Wikipedia with a specific focus on adding to the topic of climate change articles on Wikipedia. The focus will be on climate change in Africa. More information can be found on the event page on meta here. --Discott (talk) 13:11, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

WikiProject Short descriptions
As part of WikiProject Short descriptions, I am going through SA articles to add short descriptions. I'm doing it in descending order of quality. Given the number of articles, any Mzansi WikiGnome help would be appreciated (drop me a message on my talk page so we can coordinate). If you think my short descriptions are incorrect, please feel free to change them without consulting me - although you're also welcome to discuss them with me if you want. Ayenaee (talk) 17:11, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I will also do some more. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 13:49, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Scope of the project
Is there any guidance as to what is considered the scope of this project? I have just found that Gas and Glass are tagged, but have no idea why. Does anyone know? I would consider them out of scope by any reasonable measure, but willing to consider explanation. · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 13:48, 26 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The pages are tagged by a task force WikiProject South Africa/Wikipedia Primary School. I'm not sure if it is still active, this is the first time I've seen it. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:22, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Do you think anyone will object if I untag those with no apparent connection with SA? &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 18:04, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * post a note about it on the task force talk page, see if anyone there objects. From the dates of posts there I suspect it's defunct but maybe it's just dormant. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 18:39, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I checked the task force page and now see the reasoning, and can make any necessary fixes. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 05:25, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I checked the task force page and now see the reasoning, and can make any necessary fixes. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 05:25, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Racism in South Africa needs major cleanup
The article has become severely skewed with POV and RECENTISM issues. Please help fix it. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 05:26, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Yikes, that's a big job similar in size to the much needed overhaul of the Jacob Zuma article which I have been meaning to tackle for years now. :-( --Discott (talk) 13:21, 29 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Ethnic groups in South Africa suffers from the same issues: the problem is persistent disruptive editing. While I'm here a shoutout for History of South Africa not nearly as bad, but an important article that could use some TLC. Francoisdjvr (talk) 13:44, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

20th Cape Town meetup
This is just a quick notification that the 20th Cape Town Wikipedia meetup will be happening on Saturday, 5 October 2019. The location will also be different taking place up the road from the old location at KA PA Tée tea house, 7 Church St, Cape Town City Centre, Cape Town, 8000. Anyone interested in Wikipedia stuff (and I mean stuff in the broadest sense of the word) is welcome to join us. We will be there from 10am to 2pm so feel free to stop by anytime then. --Discott (talk) 20:51, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

AfroCuration education edit-a-thon
Hello everyone, The Moleskin Foundation will be hosting an edit-a-thon to improve articles about South Africa and on the South African Consitition in particualr on the 5 October 2019 in Johannesburg. They are looking for Wikipedia editors to help out. If you want to physically attend the event you can find out more here. If you are not in Johannesburg they are offering a Scholarship to fly to join them for the day. You can apply for that here. If you want to help out digitally online then please sign the list below:

AfroCuration online participation list

 * --Discott (talk) 18:55, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedian in Residence job posting
Shared this on the Wikimedia ZA mailing list when if first came out but in case anyone missed it the United Nations Development Program in South Africa is looking for a Wikipedian in residence. You can find the details here. I see the deadline to apply ends soon (27 September 2019) --Discott (talk) 18:58, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Inconsistency in Absa numbers
Good day all,

I have posted here regarding normalised and IFRS numbers being used interchangeably for Absa's year-end figures

Please could it be reviewed?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Absa_Group_Limited#Inconsistency_in_numbers

Thanks

Nicola Mawson (talk) 12:14, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi all,

Queries addressed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Absa_Group_Limited#Reply_01-NOV-2019

Ta Nicola Mawson (talk) 10:57, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

State of articles regarding the Democratic Alliance
Hello, all. Hope you are all doing well. The DA or Democratic Alliance and its leader, Mmusi Maimane, have been in the news lately (a bit of an understatement, I know), but none of the involved articles has been updated to reflect on the recent, developing news stories. I would gladly update the articles, but I don't where to begin. Should new articles, such as Next Democratic Alliance Federal Congress, Infighting in the Democratic Alliance (South Africa) and Federal Executive Committee of the Democratic Alliance (South Africa), be created? Guidance would be appreciated. Have a good evening. Lefcentreright Talk  (plz ping) 20:11, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi, sorry for my slow reply here. If you feel there are enough independent variable sources discussing these issues and that illustrate the importance of them then I would say 'go for it'. However I must note that even more momentous similar events have happened to the ANC over the years and they are not covered at all. My instinct is to encourage us all to expand on these sorts of articles rather than to prioritize. Editors can only be expected to write on what personally interests them as it is unreasonable to expect volunteer editors to do otherwise. Having said that, I would be most supportive of an article about the Federal Executive Committee of the Democratic Alliance (South Africa), but I am less convinced about the other two as possible articles. But then again what matters here more is the notability of these entities and events than anything else. Generally I am of the position that we should be bold when considering these things so I will instead encourage you decide on this yourself. :-) --Discott (talk) 13:54, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Absa CEO
Hi all,

Just posted this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Absa_Group_Limited#New_CEO

Ta

Nicola Mawson (talk) 07:16, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

RfC at Talk:Soccer in South Africa
A request for comment regarding the usage of "football" or "soccer" for South African association football articles has been opened at Talk:Soccer in South Africa. Any contribution from project members would be appreciated. S.A. Julio (talk) 01:26, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

RfC on whether to mention Ronald Reagan's response to Apartheid in the lead section of his bio
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Ronald Reagan. Sdkb (talk) 05:45, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Is "dorp" just a translation of village or is it more?
Please see Articles for deletion/Dorp (town). We could use input from more people familiar with the use of this word outside English. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:11, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Absa pages
Hi all

Not quite a South African issue, although Absa is headquartered in South Africa. The Group has recently rebranded across its African operations. Page name/info change requests have been posted here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barclays_Bank_of_Botswana#Name_change_-_Absa_Bank_Botswana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barclays_Bank_Mauritius#Name_Change_-_Absa_Bank_Mauritius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_banks_in_Seychelles#Name_change_-_Barclays_Bank_Seychelles

Thank you so much!

Nicola Mawson (talk) 12:14, 24 February 2020 (UTC)


 * It is enough to post a request at the talk pages of the respective articles, someone will take a look there shortly. – Thjarkur (talk) 13:07, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi all,

Not being a Wikipedia ed, I am battling to understand why my response on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_banks_in_Seychelles hasn't been picked up Also, I don't understand why https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barclays_Bank_of_Botswana#Name_change_-_Absa_Bank_Botswana Has been archived, as the list of banks in Bots has changed.

Can someone please assist?

TIA

Nicola Mawson (talk) 09:47, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:Herbert Baker
Category:Herbert Baker has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page. Place Clichy (talk) 10:28, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:Paul Kruger
Category:Paul Kruger has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page. Place Clichy (talk) 10:28, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Absa numbers
Hi all

Updated on results posted here.

Ta

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Absa_Group_Limited#2019_numbers

Nicola Mawson (talk) 11:40, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Absa picture
Morning team,

Just posted this here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Absa_Group_Limited#Picture

Ta

Nicola Mawson (talk) 06:48, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Declined one dit request is enough. Victor Schmidt (talk) 16:20, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi Victor,

What does "dit" mean? Excuse my ignorance.

Nicola Mawson (talk) 08:48, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

FAR review of Roy Welensky
I have nominated Roy Welensky for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Eisfbnore (会話) 02:43, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Draft:South African National Editors' Forum
I've started this draft, I'm looking for one or more collaborators to help get it to a publishable state. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 22:15, 27 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi, there. Sorry for the slow response. I will help you. Lefcentreright  Talk  (plz ping) 20:14, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

2nd South African virtual meetup
This is just a brief notification regarding the 2nd virtual South African meetup that is scheduled to be held on  Saturday, 13 June 2020. It will occur on Zulip chat (like the previous one). If you are interested in anything relating to South Africa and its Wikipedia content, be sure to join us. We will be online from 10am to 2pm, so feel free to come and participate. Lefcentreright Talk  (plz ping) 22:29, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Feedback at Kommando
Your feedback would be appreciated at Talk:Kommando, regarding a possible split or other refactoring of this article. Mathglot (talk) 20:20, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Looking for Editor
To whom it may concerns I have wrote an article relating to the arts in South Africa. I am looking for an editor to read through and let me know wheter or not the content is objective, cited correctly and notable enough to qualify the draft moving to the articles space. The article in question is named Ruan Galdino and can be found under drafts.

Let me know what you think by messaging me on my talk page or I shall keep an eye out on this platform Thank youDanceEnthusiast (talk) 13:26, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Altron page request
Good day. As a disclaimer, I work for Corporate Image, which is paid by Altron (Allied Electronics Corporation) for Corporate Communications.

Altron has asked us to investigate having a page established.

There currently is no page, although there is one for Bill Venter, which is outdated.

Can we please have some information on what would required from us in terms of info needed?

Thanks!!

Nicola Mawson (talk) 12:25, 23 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I would recommend that you don't create an article about yourself for a few reasons:


 * If I search "altron" in Google News, nothing but good press about the company comes up.
 * If you have an article, all of your bad press will appear out of the shaddows, out from the depths of seaching "altron scandal" (and scroling down a bit), to one of the top SEO pages! and if any new scandals come up... well you get the Idea. (WP:FAMOUS puts this better then I can)
 * If your Altron is really noteable why hasn't someone else made an article yet?
 * Your edit request on WP:WikiProject South Africa indicates that you aren't that familiar wikipedia. I've wasted been on wikipedia for about 6 months and haven't written any yet.
 * But if you decide to write an article, (I'm actually not sure if it's allowed) I would reccomond that you look at Help:Contents, H:FIRST, and WP:COI, and keep in mind that, you won't WP:OWN the article. Anyway, just my opinion and I'm sure I missed some things. &thinsp;Darth&thinsp; Flappy   '&laquo;Talk&raquo;'  00:32, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Need help to confirm my citation
Hello. I have been adding citation to African National Congress to remove the tag on these article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_resistance_to_apartheid?veaction=edit&section=1

Can someone help me look through the article to confirm the citation?

Thank you Agus Damanik (talk) 01:48, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

3rd South African virtual meetup
This is just a brief notification regarding the 3rd virtual South African meetup that is scheduled to be held on Saturday, 25 July 2020. It will occur on Zulip chat (like the previous two). If you are interested in anything relating to South Africa and its Wikipedia content, be sure to join us. We will be online from 10am to 12pm, so feel free to come and participate. Lefcentreright Discuss   15:59, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Please help me publish my page on Wikipedia
I've created a page on sandbox and I feel it's ready can you help me publish it on Wikipedia. --Mzansi369 (talk) 10:48, 18 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello! Welcome to Wikipedia. I'll quickly go take a look. Lefcentreright  Discuss   10:52, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

My first ever Wikipedia draft on the South African founder of The Space Theatre
Hi everyone, I just wrote my first post and am slightly unsure how to get it reviewed! It's a brief entry about photographer and theatre director Brian Astbury. Once it is up and running I will invite some other people to add more to the page. For now, is there anyone who would like to review it so it can be published? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Brian_Astbury

Thanks a lot! Milja -- Miljafe
 * Added more information and formatted it a bit better. Conlinp (talk) 10:47, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks so much Conlinp. Do you know if we can get it published /reviewed? Milja -- Miljafe 18:00, 15 August 2020 (GMT)

4th Online meetup
Hello, all. Everyone is cordially invited to attend the 4th South African online meetup being held on 15 August 2020 between 10:00 and 12:00 SAST. You can RSVP here. Have a great August. Best, Lefcentreright  Discuss   21:23, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Critical problems in Biodiversity of Cape Town
The geographical extent of Cape Town is not defined in the article, so the correct scope of the contents is undecided, making it impossible to fix errors and update. Since Cape Town has varied in extent over time and will probably do so again, and the extent is not specified in the Cape Town article, the value of the biodiversity article as encyclopedic material is dependent on the defined extent. I would prefer input from others before making a decision which some may see as arbitrary. Unless there are other suggestions, I propose using the current extent of the City of Cape Town, with the exception of the Prince Edward Islands. · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 04:03, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Sporadic IP disruption on Mmanthatisi
Please consider watchlisting this page. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  14:12, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Ekurhuleni townships renamed in February, or were they?
Discussion at Talk:City of Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Municipality.

Affected pages: City of Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Municipality, Thembisa, Thokoza, Tsakani, Template:City of Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Municipality, and possibly others. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  01:02, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

I'd appreciate some help with reviewing my article
I've just submitted an article for review (Draft:Ike_Moriz). I'd very much appreciate any support from the SA Wikiproject! Thank you Awellmann (talk) 13:24, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Since you moved the page to Ike Moriz yourself, I removed the WP:AFC review template. Note that this article already exists in the German and Afrikaans Wikipedia.  If you read those languages, you might find useful information that can be incorporated in the English version.  If you or for that matter any other editor includes any direct or near-direct translations from the articles in those languages, please use the Translated page template on this article's talk page.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  14:29, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for your support and all the advice! Much appreciated! --Awellmann (talk) 14:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

The Months of African Cinema Contest Continues in November!
You can opt-out of this annual reminder from The Afrocine Project by removing your username from this list

First women MP(s) in Namibia
Hello. I'm compiling a list of the first women MPs in each country, but have been unable to find the answer for Namibia. It looks like it was during the South-West Africa period (hence asking here). The Inter-Parliamentary Union claim it was 1989, but I have found references to Anna Frank being a member of the Legislative Assembly in the early 1980s. If anyone can point me to a definitive source, it would be much appreciated. Cheers, Number   5  7  18:24, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Biodiversity of South Africa
I have been working on this topic and related articles recently. There is a navbox covering all the relevant articles I have noticed so far, including redlinks for articles yet to be created but likely to be suitable. Anyone who is interested is welcome to comment and suggest changes to the navbox content or layout, and to improve or suggest improvements for any of the articles. Creating some species articles to reduce the redlink count of the lists of flowering plants of South Africa would be really useful, there are a lot of endemic and indigenous plants with no coverage. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 14:31, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Wendy Luhabe
I dream of horses (Contribs) Please notify me after replying off my talk page. Thank you. 22:48, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Cape Town navboxes
At present there are several (7 listed) navboxes for Cape Town and subtopics. Some could be usefully combined, and in many cases also updated, while others are very peripheral (Template:Cape Town City F.C. squad). I propose to combine those most central to the topic and where appropriate, expand the resulting navbox to include more of the articles about the place, and make them easier to find, thereby making them more useful to the interested reader and editor alike. Articles about people will generally be excluded except for functionaries like the mayor and others where notability is directly related to association with the City.

I intend to name the navbox Template:Cape Town, and combine the approximate contents of Template:Cape Town, Template:City of Cape Town Metropolitan Municipality, Template:Cape Town freeways, Template:City of Cape Town government, Template:Cape Town radio and Template:Cape Town Skyscrapers, but not Template:Cape Town City F.C. squad, along with other relevant links currently not included in a navbox for the City. The revised template will be normally autocollapsed with collapsible groups, which can be set to open the most appropriate group when the navbox is manually opened, but also allows the other collapsible groups to be opened manually by a second click. An example of the general structure can be seen in use in the Biodiversity of South Africa set of articles

Your constructive comments and suggestions are solicited. · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 06:17, 28 November 2020 (UTC)


 * No comments in a week. I will assume there are no objections and make the change. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 10:53, 6 December 2020 (UTC)


 * I only saw this now and I agree with your proposal. I think it is a great idea. Best, Lefcentreright  Talk &#124;   Contribs   &#124;   Global 11:01, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , Glad to hear it. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 11:10, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Peter, havent been very active here for a while. Hence my lack of recent feedback. Sorry about that. I have been noticing your work on this and even added a couple items. I agree with Lefcentreright. Looks good to me as well.--Discott (talk) 21:11, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Banking in South Africa
I have started a draft article about an overview of banking in South Africa. However my knowledge of the financial sector is very limited so I'd appreciate contributions by others. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:43, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for starting this Dodger. I would definately want to shoehorn Capitec in there some time but it might have to wait if it is coming from me. I am a bit distracted these days.--Discott (talk) 21:13, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Fastjet headquarters location?
I'm trying to find the location of Fastjet's head office in South Africa. I read that it moved from Gatwick Airport in the UK to Johannesburg, but I cannot find a reference to a postal address for this facility, and Fastjet's financial reports show a London address as being the head office.

I wonder what's going on? WhisperToMe (talk) 01:02, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Historic building in Cape Town
Good evening, I was looking at some historic buildings in Cape Town and found this beautiful one on the corner between St Georges Mall and Wale Street. Now, I was not able to find much about it except for its name (Mandela Rhodes Building)... Does anyone know something more about it, maybe even about its history? I would really appreciate any sort of help! Thank you in advance.--Plumbago Capensis (talk) 22:41, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * See http://mandela.southafrica.net/map/view/the-mandela-rhodes-building Greenman (talk) 18:09, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Women in Africa contest
March is the third and final month of Women in Red's focus on biographies of African women in our Women in Africa contest. Up to now, around a hundred articles have been contributed but with your collaboration, we hope to have many more.--Ipigott (talk) 11:53, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

South African cricket lists
Hi everyone. Hope you all are well. If anyone you have some time then please give your input at Articles for deletion/List of international cricket five-wicket hauls on Irish cricket grounds. Thanks. Störm  (talk)  17:08, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Mbizana Local Municipality name change
I have just reverted a few edits about the renaming of this municipality. The way it was done was quite "clumsy". How are these changes usually handled? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:06, 19 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Unlike individual cities and towns, municipalities are governmental structures that are named whatever the government says they are (by notice under the Municipal Structures Act in the Provincial Gazette). So I would say, we just move the article to the new name and update the contents of the article. See e.g. JB Marks Local Municipality (formerly Ventersdorp-Tlokwe). - htonl (talk) 11:15, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Gleniffer
I was working on fixing some of the oldest articles on Wikipedia tagged without references. For one particular article I'm having trouble finding a reliable reference stating that Gleniffer is a suburb of Johannesburg, or at least a reference from a gov't entity saying so. Most stuff (which isn't much) seems to show this small area of land within Bryanston. Any help with refs or clarification on this point would be welcomed here or within the actual article. Thank you. Barkeep Chat 14:43, 14 April 2021 (UTC)


 * I checked into the land records and it looks like Gleniffer is a suburban development, consisting of one block of eight houses. So I would agree that it doesn't even reach the level of being a neighbourhood, and I can find no evidence that it is sufficiently notable to have a Wikipedia article of its own. I would suggest either WP:PROD it or redirect it to Bryanston, Gauteng. - htonl (talk) 18:38, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the feedback. Based on my research and your comments this seems like a candidate for redirect. It could probably pass through the PROD process, but I'll go forward with suggested redirect instead. Then I'll follow that up with a subsequent removal from the template which is where almost all of its other inter English Wikipedia links originate from.  Barkeep Chat 19:36, 15 April 2021 (UTC)


 * I spotted two others in similar situations - Clynton and Dalecross. There are probably more, it looks like they were probably created in bulk off of some list that must have included individual housing developments not just actual suburbs. - htonl (talk) 16:02, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Praegville might be another. Thanks for doing this. Meanderingbartender (talk) 12:58, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Indeed it is; I have redirected it to Ferndale, Gauteng. - htonl (talk) 17:48, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Photo request - Cape Town
Are there any members of this WP in the Cape Town area who are able to get a post-fire photograph of Mostert's Mill and upload it to Commons please? Mjroots (talk) 18:49, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think anyone will be able to get one yet; as I understand it the area is still closed off by emergency services. - htonl (talk) 19:04, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
 * has already uploaded an image to Commons, and it's been added to the article. Mjroots (talk) 19:35, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
 * It was deleted as a copyvio, so we still need a photo. Mjroots (talk) 15:17, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

"Football" vs. "soccer" in category name
The "football" vs. "soccer" issue has arisen again in my proposal to rename Category:Football and apartheid. Participation is welcome. The discussion is here. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:12, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

24 April 2021 online community meetup
Hello everyone, Wikimedia South Africa will be hosting an online community meetup for the South African Wiki community. Its going to happen on Saturday, 24 April 2021 from 10:00 to 12:00. All community members are welcome to join. Find out more at the meetup page here: WMZA meetup 7.--Discott (talk) 08:17, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

29 May 2021 online community meetup
Hello everyone, Wikimedia South Africa will be hosting an online community meetup for the South African Wiki community. It is going to happen on Saturday, 29 May 2021 from 10:00 to 12:00. All community members are welcome to join. Find out more at the meetup page here: WMZA meetup 8.--Discott (talk) 08:38, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

New stub Banking in South Africa
I've mainspaced a draft that I started but haven't found the time (or inclination) to expand further. It is intended to be an overview of the banking sector in SA, but it is currently just a bare minimum stub, please help expand it. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Announcing South African Bookshelf Project
Wikimedia South Africa has launched its Bookshelf project which allows Wikipedia editors to more easily access reference material. If you are working on a South Africa related article and you need a reference from a paid source (such as a book, or academic journal article) then you are invited to apply. If you are successful the chapter will pay for the reference source so you can access it and use it to improve Wikipedia.--Shupai Mchuchu (WMZA) (talk • contribs) 09:01, 7 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The link leads to an error - "Sorry, the file you have requested does not exist." - htonl (talk) 10:16, 7 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Oh dear. Try this link instead. Thanks for letting me know. I was wondering why we were not getting any requests. Sorry about that. :-( --Discott (talk) 09:33, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

South Africa meetup: July
The next South Africa digital meetup will be happening on the last Saturday of July. See below for more details or checkout the meetup page here. --Discott (talk) 18:40, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Date: Saturday, 31 July 2021
 * Start time: 11:00 AM SAST
 * End Time: 13:00 PM SAST
 * Location: online
 * Platform: Zulip (text chat)
 * Server: WMZA meetup 10 (note: registration is necessary)

National Party (South Africa)
The National Party (South Africa) article, despite being 60,000 bytes in size, has an almost total lack of inline citations, making it impossible to know what is reliably sourced and what is original research. It's an immense cleanup job and I simply don't really have the interest or expertise in the topic to make a dent in it. Hemiauchenia (talk) 19:40, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * It certainly is lacking proper or full inline citations. It looks like it is using an old format for Wikipedia articles that was a bit more forgiving of less citations. However that is no excuse for letting it stay so weakly sourced. Especially for an article of such historical significance in South Africa. If it is okay with you I will re-post your request on the Wikipedia South Africa politics task force as that strikes me as the best place for this.--Discott (talk) 18:48, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

South Africa meetup: August
The next South Africa digital meetup will be happening on the last Saturday of July. See below for more details or checkout the meetup page here. --Discott (talk) 08:28, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Date: Saturday, 28 August 2021
 * Start time: 10:00 AM SAST
 * End Time: 12:00 PM SAST
 * Location: online
 * Platform: Zulip (text chat)
 * Server: WMZA meetup 11 (note: registration is necessary)

RSN discussion on the Mail & Guardian
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard § Reliability of the Mail & Guardian. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 23:18, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Inyama Yenhloko
I'm hoping someone can help with some research for this draft, which to me appears credibly notable but that needs sourcing help to prove notability. —valereee (talk) 16:03, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Separate article for 1961-1994 South Africa
Hi, I'm currently think that the 1961-1994 South Africa article should be separated since it have different system and constitution with modern day South Africa and I'm currently still doing the draft, does everyone think its a good idea? Feel, free to comment

Here's the draft for everyone here: Draft:First Republic of South Africa - theasiancowboy (talk) 04:22, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , actually the "First Republic" existed only from 1961 to 1983. From 1983 to 1994 would be the "Second Republic", when the constitution was changed to introduce the Tricameral Parliament and an executive presidency which merged the prime minister and ceremonial president. However I strongly doubt there are any serious sources that apply the concept of First/Second Republic to SA, thus no such article(s) would be sustainable. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 21:40, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * It doesn't have to be the First republic, because SA political system from 1961-1994 was Unitary, there should be an article for it. Mhatopzz (talk) 15:05, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Indaba 2021 is here!
Hosted by the Wikimedia Community User Group Uganda, the first ever virtual Wiki Indaba conference is taking place online from the 5th to the 7th of November 2021 under the theme Rethink + Reset : Visions of the future.

Wiki Indaba 2021 is a unique opportunity to come together to build the capacity of African Wikimedians both within the continent and the diaspora to foster the growth of the coverage and our involvement in Wikimedia projects.

The call for submissions is open, please submit your session proposal either as a presentation, panel discussion, lightning talk, or workshop before September 24th 2021.

Most importantly, we would like to have you at the conference, please register here to get your free ticket and spread the word to your community members.

Looking forward to seeing you and hearing you speak at the conference.

Geoffrey Kateregga (talk) 23:45, 16 September 2021 (UTC) - On behalf of the Wiki Indaba 2021 Local Organizing Committee

The Months of African Cinema Contest Continues in November!
You can opt-out of this annual reminder from The Afrocine Project by removing your username from this list

14th Wikipedia Meetup: 29 January 2022
Wikimedia South Africa will be hosting the 14th South African Wikipedia meetup, hosted digitally, on January 29, 2022. Please below for details. --Discott (talk) 13:24, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Date: Saturday, 29 January 2022
 * Start time: 10:00 AM SAST 
 * End Time: 12:00 PM SAST
 * Location: Online Meeting
 * We will be trying out our new Discord channel as our meeting location this time (see link below). See the event page on Wikipedia for more information. If that does not work for you then don't worry, you can still join via Zulip at the link below for a more text-based experience.
 * Platform: Zulip (text chat)
 * Server: WMZA Meetup 14 (note: registration is necessary)

Is "newy" a word?
Is it a misspelling? If it's correct, what does it mean? It's used on Woltemade Cross for Bravery, Gold and Woltemade Cross for Bravery, Silver. Sadly, the author of this passage has died, so I'm hoping someone familiar with this culture can fill us in? Thanks! -- 20:27, 13 November 2021 (UTC) Beland (talk) 20:27, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * yes, "newy" is a word, a slang word that can mean any of several towns that begin with "New", such as Newcastle, New Haven, even New York: "Let's go into Newy and catch a movie." Also found as "newie" with plural "newies": "Can I have one of your newies?" (Refers to Newport cigarettes, a popular menthol brand.) After an extensive search I can find no not one definition of "newy" that goes with "cross potent" or "facetted" or anything close to those. Nor do we see any "facetting" going on with those bravery decorations; therefore, the phrase "facetted newy" has been removed from those two articles.  P.I. Ellsworth &numsp;- ed.  put'r there 06:23, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thanks for cleaning up those articles! Based on the above, I've also created a Wiktionary entry at newy; feel free to make any improvements or corrections there. -- Beland (talk) 02:15, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Great idea! creating a Wiktionary entry. Sometimes I just assume that such a word is already there without checking. Good catch, !  P.I. Ellsworth &numsp;- ed.  put'r there 03:53, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Baby Queen article
The article on Baby Queen has been expanded by more than 2000 words in the last few weeks, would anyone be able to give feedback / update it from stub class? Lornaliq (talk) 08:27, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

South Africa Wikipedia's Decade Long Edit War Needs to End
'''TLDR: Wikipedia should use the current, official names of places that are used by media, government, and the population at large by default. Wikipedia should not just use the name that a small, fringe group of people want. There is no evidence the population at large, or the media, is actively resisting these name changes.'''

Hello fellow Wikipedia editors,

When we refuse to accept the reality of a situation on the ground, Wikipedia leads the charge. Wikipedia should be encyclopedic. Not opinionated. We are supposed to use valid, reliable sources in order to determine what the most reliable facts are. I have never seen such denial of evidence or facts almost anywhere else on Wikipedia. I understand this is long, but it's necessary to be as thorough as possible for an argument that is this contentious.

Almost every page related to South Africa has some level of vandalism or controversy. South African wikipedia has also been mentioned specifically because of racism in the past. It seems like, on South African Wikipedia especially, claims of racism are not taken as seriously as supposed WP:AGF violations. South Africa is deeply affected by racial divisions even to this day. Despite making up an extreme, fringe, minority view within the country of South Africa, conspiracy theories take hold amongst this community. In fact the Council on Foreign Relations has written about how South Africa not only has a thriving white supremacist community today, but that South Africa is of interest to white supremacists around the world.

This is a small quote from the article:

"Accordingly, South Africa still inflames the passions of white supremacists around the world. Dylann Roof, murderer of nine African Americans at Bible study at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina in June 2015, was in no small part inspired by white supremacism in southern Africa—his Facebook profile picture showed him in a jacket emblazoned with the flags of Rhodesia, a bastion of white supremacy before it achieved independence as Zimbabwe, and apartheid-era South Africa, and his manifesto was published on a personal website titled “The Last Rhodesian.” The centrality of South Africa to the white supremacist struggle around the world has been summarized by the radical website American Renaissance in March 2018: “the fate of white people around the world is linked to that of the Afrikaners.”

It doesn't take long to see many, many users in this community are afraid of supposed "white genocide" or the erasure of Dutch/British culture.

But in fact, this is a false controversy. In the actual country of South Africa, these name changes are not as controversial as they are made to seem here. For those less familiar with South Africa, it's important to know that when the apartheid government named places, there was no consent of the people. They named some towns of black Africans things like Kaffirskraal and Kaffirskraalkopie. "K*ffir" is the South African equivalent of the n-word. So it is the equivalent to naming a town "N*ggerville" or something of that nature. Understandably, a lot of people didn't like this. There was and is a widespread effort to not only change explicitly racist names like that but to fix names with grammatical errors or colonial ties as well.

Yet, you wouldn't know that if you looked at Wikipedia. These articles have been targeted with "death by a thousand cuts". Nobody wants to spend hundreds of hours contesting every single page that needs to be moved. These name changes are only controversial to that fringe group of users who feel personally wronged by this change. The idea that every single page needs to be debated is a farce and I seriously doubt the people doing it don't know that. It is absolutely unrealistic.

This is a massive waste of everyone's time. All reliable sources portray opposition to these changes to be a fringe, minority view.

Whites Protest at African name changes

"Dozens of white residents in Lydenburg - and one black person - rallied to keep the name given to the town by Dutch settlers in the 19th century. The black mayor, Clara Ndlovu, recently announced that it would change to Mashishing, the name of a nearby black township which means "wind blowing through the grass"."

If you look through the history of many of these renamed places, you will find vandalism and arguments going back to almost the start of this website over how to name places in South Africa. The fact that no real consensus has been reached for over a decade should alarm any Wikipedia user that cares about consistency and accuracy.

The facts are that these name changes are the norm. It seems abundantly clear that we should use the official names by default and only use the old apartheid-era names only in circumstances where the evidence is overwhelming that the country has rejected the new name. It is truly disheartening to see so many Wikipedia editors refuse to look at the facts and face reality. Even pages like Orania, Northern Cape gloss over the white supremacist nature of the town. To see so many users believe (or at least claim to believe) that black Africans miss apartheid-era names just reflects poorly on the community as a whole.

In addition, only towns with a significant Afrikaner or non-black population are even well documented here. I know there are users from South Africa but the motivation to document these missing places from South Africa seems to be non-existent.

I want accurate information more than anything and I hope you all do too. Desertambition (talk) 23:49, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * See Talk:Port_Elizabeth for a lot of arguments that OP would like to ignore. A first step for reasonable assessment would be to stop milking the juicy "APARTHEID NAMES!!" angle, stop implying (not even subtly) that everyone with a differing opinion is a Racist Colonial Oppressor, and focus on what matters in terms of Wikipedia guidelines: WP:COMMONNAME. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 03:38, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I encourage everyone to read the Port Elizabeth thread and check the sources themselves. There is no reason to use the old names. Not even just because they are apartheid era. You presented no arguments. We can't ignore the racial element to this. Not calling everyone and everything racist so there's no point in exaggerating. Acknowledging it exists and is present more often than other parts of Wikipedia is just accurate. I presented it as one reason among many to end this edit war. Desertambition (talk) 03:57, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Also important to note that Sotherby, one of the users in opposition, was revealed to be a sockpuppet account. Desertambition (talk) 04:16, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Probably not. The editor in question gave their opinion with one account. The editor interaction utility shows that they did not use multiple accounts for this. -- Toddy1 (talk) 21:37, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Toddy1 I didn't claim they used multiple accounts on the post., just that it was a sockpuppet. Which is factual. Desertambition (talk) 22:50, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Can you please present your evidence that claims of racism aren't taken seriously? And evidence of many South African Wikipedian's being afraid of "white genocide"? And evidence of name changes being only controversial to a fringe group that feel personally wronged by the changes?
 * You might also be interested in a recent RfC on New Zealand naming guidelines. --Spekkios (talk) 00:08, 5 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I am personally in favour of changing the article names to reflect the new, official and widely recognised names for these places. The most notable being Port Elizabeth changed to Gqeberha. I have made my position on this clear on the talk page of that article. I am very sorry to see that I missed (or want was not informed of in time) the vote on whether to change the name. However I would strongly encourage people to assume good faith and not throw around accusations of racism. I would also suggest that it be proposed that, in the case of Gqeberha/Port Elizabeth, another vote be held to move the article to its current official name as I feel not enough people were notified of the previous vote.--Discott (talk) 13:06, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Wikimedia South Africa Bookshelf
Please fill out this form if you want to take advantage of the Wikimedia South Africa Bookshelf service. This service allows Wikipedia editors who are editing on Southern African subjects to access reference material that they might not be able to get by other means. Membership of the Wikimedia South Africa chapter is not necessary to take advantage of this program but members are prioritised.

A requirement is that the books will be used in the editing of Wikipedia. Participants in this program recognise that the books procured through this process are the property of Wikimedia South Africa and as such beneficiaries of this program agree to share these books with other Wikipedia editors upon request. A new form will need to be filled out for each book you wish to get.

You can take advantage of this program by either requesting that the Chapter purchase the book on your behalf and send it to you or you can purchase the book and then request reimbursement once you have submitted proof of purchase. If you want reimbursement then please contact the chapter at info@wikimedia.org.za

Wikimedia South Africa has a limited budget for this project so we can only purchase or issue reimbursements if the books are not too expensive (generally below R600). Special consideration might be made in exceptional circumstances but that will need to be discussed with the chapter beforehand. --Schnabel MchuchuSchnabel Mchuchu (WMZA) (talk) 13:27, 28 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for message, I just also want to let people know that in addition to this project editors can also get some reference sources through the Wikipedia library project as well.--Discott (talk) 13:46, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Input Needed at Mfecane Page
Hello everyone. The Mfecane talk page could use input concerning proposed updates to the article. Any help would be much appreciated! Pliny the Elderberry (talk) 20:52, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I have replied. :-) --Discott (talk) 13:47, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

15th Wikipedia Meetup: 26 February 2022
Wikimedia South Africa will be hosting the 15th South African Wikipedia meetup, hosted digitally, on February 26, 2022. Please below for details.
 * Date: Saturday, 26 February 2022
 * Start time: 10:00 AM SAST
 * End Time: 12:00 PM SAST
 * Location: Online Meeting
 * Event page: South Africa 15
 * We will be trying out our new Discord channel as our meeting location this time (see link below). See the event page on Wikipedia for more information. If that does not work for you then don't worry, you can still join via Zulip at the link below for a more text-based experience.


 * Thank you for creating the 15th Meetup --Schnabel Mchuchu (WMZA) (talk) 10:17, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

This discussion proposes to update WP:PLACEDAB and the way South African cities are disambiguated.
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names) § WP:PLACEDAB and disambiguating by state/province. 162 etc. (talk) 22:29, 13 December 2021 (UTC)


 * A note to say that this discussion has concluded and the result is that South African articles are now to be disambiguated as "X, South Africa" rather than "X, Province". (Obviously with the exception of duplicate names like Heidelberg, Gauteng/Heidelberg, Western Cape etc.) This will involve quite a lot of moves including some which will require help from WP:RM/TR. I have embarked on some of these but if anyone else feels like a little holiday project to work on, feel free... - htonl (talk) 10:21, 1 January 2022 (UTC)


 * thanks for the update and thanks for moving most of the affected articles. It strikes me as being the most reasonable outcome. It was also something that was, until now, unclear to me.--Discott (talk) 13:37, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Johan van Zyl (businessman)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Johan van Zyl (businessman) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him &#124; talk) 20:00, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement guidelines ratification voting open from 7 to 21 March 2022
Hello everyone,

The ratification voting process for the revised enforcement guidelines of the Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC) is now open! Voting commenced on SecurePoll on 7 March 2022 and will conclude on 21 March 2022. Please read more on the voter information and eligibility details.

The Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC) provides a baseline of acceptable behavior for the entire movement. The revised enforcement guidelines were published 24 January 2022 as a proposed way to apply the policy across the movement. You can read more about the UCoC project.

You can also comment on Meta-wiki talk pages in any language. You may also contact the team by email: ucocprojectwikimedia.org

Sincerely,

Movement Strategy and Governance

Zuz (WMF) (talk) 10:41, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Newtown, Johannesburg
Hello, I have made minor adjustments to this wiki article due to its potential lack of encyclopedic register and format. This could be done by conducting further specified research into details through academic and scholarly sources. Information provided needs to include more adequate citations to show verification. I changed the sequence of the sections "Location" and "Historical Background". I also added an additional section on "Turbine Square"(Hall) as it is considered a cultural icon in the province of Newton, Johannesburg. Overall, the page is quite brief and should be able to encapsulate the pinned location through a variety of sections and information. Thank you very much for your time

(Randall89101 (talk) 01:12, 23 March 2022 (UTC))

Draft:Food security in South Africa collaborators wanted
Please help write the article on this important topic. I've started with a few section headings and a couple of good sources. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:19, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Mount Frere
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Mount Frere that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. signed, 511KeV    (talk) 07:00, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

17th Wikipedia Meetup: 30 April 2022
Wikimedia South Africa will be hosting the 17th South African Wikipedia meetup, hosted digitally, on April 30, 2022. Please below for details. --Schnabel Mchuchu (WMZA) (talk) 08:01, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Date: Saturday, 30 April 2022
 * Start time: 10:00 AM SAST 
 * End Time: 12:00 PM SAST
 * Location: Online Meeting
 * We will be trying out our new Discord channel as our meeting location this time (see link below). See the event page on Wikipedia for more information. If that does not work for you then don't worry, you can still join via Zulip at the link below for a more text-based experience.
 * Platform: Zulip (text chat)
 * Server: WMZA Meetup 17 (note: registration is necessary)

User script to detect unreliable sources
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like and turns it into something like
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from cite web, cite journal and doi.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Status of South African Sign Language is changing
The SASL article needs a major update in the light of Cabinet approval of a constitutional amendment to raise its status to become the 12th official language. See this SABC News report and interview. Other related articles will also need to be updated. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:14, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Help with a Newcomer
Good Morning

I am new on Wikipedia but want to get involved with this WikiProject. I have already added my name to the list and would like to start helping right away, how can I? I have only edited on Article: Racism in South Africa; but would like to assist with as many articles about South Africa as possible. Please let me know :)
 * Signing your post on talk pages with four tildes would be a good start, as it would allow us to reply to you directly. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 08:12, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Assessment of importance
Is there any guidance on assessing the importance of an article to this project? Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 09:24, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

May 2022 floods
Where is this on the wiki?Bokoharamwatch (talk) 16:47, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Link {1} is unavailable. How do I verify the information?
Link {1} is unavailable. How do I verify the information? 102.65.50.92 (talk) 22:19, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Help expanding please: Farmgate
Hi everyone, I have just created an article about the recent Farmgate scandal. It is very incomplete and I am finding it to be a bit hard to follow and piece together so I am requesting help with expanding, fact checking, and making sense of it.--Discott (talk) 14:21, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Nhlanhla "Lux" Dlamini
I started an article on Nhlanhla "Lux" Dlamini, the leader of Operation Dudula. There are enough references about him to establish notability. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 04:44, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Road Article Citations
Hi. I want to enquire about which "websites" and other sources can be used as "Citations" on road articles. Are we suppose to cite GPS Websites (such as Openstreetmap & Google Maps) or something else?

Well, the M11 (Johannesburg) article, for example, only has two "Citations" the entire article (specifically in the Introduction) while the "route section" does not have a single citation on any paragraph and the article has been like that for years. Then, the M6 road (Pretoria) article, which is pretty-much the same type of article, only has four "Citations" in the Introduction while the "route section" does not have a single citation on any paragraph and the article was only created several weeks ago. The two pages are exactly the same type of page (i.e. Metropolitan Route). The "M11" article has remained the same for years with the "route section" uncited while on the "M6" article, the "route section" was erased because it is "uncited material". I am failing to understand why the "M6 Route Description" was erased while the "M11 Route Description" has remained untouched.

That rule of "citing each & every paragraph" seems to be complicated on route articles. I am one of those who looked at articles such as the M11 (Johannesburg) article and automatically assumed that adding "Citations" to the "Route" section is not necessary, until I witnessed an authorized editor remove everything I wrote there on several articles. Since "Citations" are being demanded, I may want to know the best place to find them. Chils Kemptonian (talk) 19:26, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Well, You'll notice that many articles, such as the R21, N3, N1 and even the M11 article that I mentioned, do not have citations at all under the "Route" section but for some reason, the "Route" section was totally removed from the M6 and M18 articles for the reason of the material being uncited. I have failed to understand why that rule is only being enforced on "some" articles. Chils Kemptonian (talk) 20:15, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

It's alright. The matter was resolved on the WikiProject Highways talk page. Chils Kemptonian (talk) 12:07, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Death and state funeral of Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Death and state funeral of Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. UtherSRG (talk) 10:50, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

That probably was cryptic... why do we care about that? This RM involves about 50 state funeral articles, including at least one that is related to this WP. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:13, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Mpumelelo Stadium
Can anyone provide coordinates for Mpumelelo Stadium in Dundee? I can't see any reference to it on any of the main mapping systems. &mdash; The Anome (talk) 11:07, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I looked, and couldn't even find anything definitive to say that the stadium exists, much less is notable, so I've nominated it for deletion. Greenman (talk) 19:39, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Based on the fact that it is described here as being in Sibongile, and here it is said to have a swimming pool, I suspect it is in fact the facility at -28.184°N, 30.238°W. I would still doubt its notability. htonl (talk) 12:06, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

South African Road Articles
Hi, People! Let me bring something to your attention!

There is currently a debate going on at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Highways about putting "route" sections on road articles and then either "citing unreliable sources" or "leaving the content uncited".

Well, I'm sure you've noticed that on "South African Road Articles", we would cite the "Introduction" with the "South African Numbered Route Description and Destination Analysis" document & then we would write the "Route" section without inline-citing any single sentence under that section. Now, some editors seem to disapprove of this type of writing.

So, as long as the "Route" section doesn't have any citations, we should expect editors to come & remove all the content under that article section regardless of the status of the article. They have disapproved of any GPS Website (such as Google Maps, OpenStreetMap & others) being used as a citation because they are apparently "unreliable", although I beg to differ.

So, they say that this thing we have been doing of "Adding Route Sections" (without citing a single sentence) & leaving that one citation in the Introduction is wrong & I fear that they may now come & do something ugly to our articles. Even though they can simply add a "More Citations Needed" tag, I fear they may remove the content instead.

So, GPS websites like Google Maps are apparently not allowed to be used as citations and just to preserve the "Route" section of South Africa's Road articles, which other websites would you recommend for us to use on these road articles? Or should we just agree with them that "Route" sections do not belong under our road articles?

What is tour opinion on this matter? Fast Replies would be appreciated. Chils Kemptonian (talk) 14:15, 29 September 2022 (UTC)


 * I would think that the "Numbered Route Description" document is an entirely reliable source for the route section. If sentence-by-sentence citations are needed you can use the  syntax to reuse the same reference multiple times. htonl (talk) 15:01, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Htonl It's great to know that that reference is accepted. You'll notice that certain Users (won't mention them) went around many road articles recently, such as the N4, R21, R104 & R300 articles, to specifically add a "More Citations Needed" tag after that WP:HWY debate! So, I guess we have many articles about roads countrywide where we may need to "add this citation to each & every paragraph" to avoid those editors being tasked to erase the content under the "Route" section.
 * If you look at that original debate on WP:HWY, you'll notice that that User (Chils Kemptonian) was in the process of creating articles for each & every Metropolitan Route in Pretoria, from M1 to M43. But, unfortunately for us, Metropolitan Routes from any municipality (whether it's Pretoria, Durban, Cape Town, Johannesburg, etc) are NOT described in this cited document (Only "N" & "R" roads are). These specific editors love to actually click on the citation and see if the same "road" is mentioned in the document.
 * If you look again at that original debate on WP:HWY, They accuse the content we write under the "Route" section of being "Original Research" on top of being uncited content. Also, as i've noticed by stalking the same editors, There's also this battle going on of when to use "Primary Sources" and when to use "Secondary Sources".
 * So, there's more problems here than just leaving the content uncited (saying "the road is a dual carriageway" or "the road is 50-kilometres between two locations" causes an "Original Research" problem apparently) & it seems like the way editors have been adding "Route" sections in past years wont work today, which is a very sad scenario. GeographicAccountant (talk) 21:30, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Htonl, Thanks for answering that that citation is sufficient. I hope the "Original Research" debate and the "Primary vs Secondary Sources" debate do not pose additional problems for South African road articles. I really hope we find a way to "improve road articles" without somebody claiming that what we write under the "Route" section is "Original Research" because we might end up with basic "stubs" like the R613 road (South Africa) and R401 (South Africa), where we only put an Introductory Sentence (& maybe an Infobox) without knowing what other non-controversial information to add to the article. Chils Kemptonian (talk) 17:09, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

FAR for Paul Kruger
I have nominated Paul Kruger for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Z1720 (talk) 02:37, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Animal on A CoA
See the image at commons:User_talk:Samhanin. What animal has the hunter in his hand?--Antemister (talk) 21:06, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Johannesburg South
Seeking clarification here: Is Johannesburg South a "suburb" or a "group of suburbs"?

Looking at the way articles under the "what links here" tab use the term "Johannesburg South", It is being portrayed as a "group of suburbs".

Also, a "Google Maps" search of "Johannesburg South" shows it as covering pretty-much all the "southern suburbs of Johannesburg".

So, contrary to what is currently written in the Johannesburg South article, it does represent a "group of suburbs", right? GeographicAccountant (talk) 15:45, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

It's Okay; I have managed to do my own research & have concluded that the name "Johannesburg South" refers to most, if not all, of the Southern Suburbs of Johannesburg.

As such, the Johannesburg South article should be edited in that regard. Thanks. GeographicAccountant (talk) 19:59, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Proposed split for South Africa article
Molweni, and good tidings to you all. I proposed a split for the South Africa article to be split into one for the Apartheid era and the modern era on Talk:South_Africa#Splitting_this_article_into_South_Africa_and_Republic_of_South_Africa_, I of course need this project's opinion. Thank you.

HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 17:10, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia 22nd birthday
Sorry for the short notice on this but Wikimedia South Africa is hosting a birthday brunch to celebrate Wikipedia's 22nd birthday. It will take place on Sunday 15 January from 11:00 on wards in both Cape Town and Johannesburg. Here is the event page on meta wiki. There will be cake!

Cape Town

 * Cape Town Venue: Tigers Milk Claremont
 * Address: Ground Floor Sunclare Building, 21 Dreyer Street, Claremont, Cape Town.
 * Time: 11:00 onwards

Johannesburg

 * Johannesburg Venue: Olives&Plates Embassy Towers
 * Address: "175 Empire Place, Sandhurst, Sandton, 2196"
 * Time: 11:00 onwards

Discott (talk) 11:31, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Malls & Suburbs in Johannesburg
Hi, people. I'm asking for some clarification here.

So, we have an article named Southgate, Gauteng & we also have Southgate Shopping Centre. Now, here, does the name "Southgate" only apply to the mall or is the entire area surrounding the mall declared a "suburb" with the same name? As a person who studied Google Street View in the area & paid attention to road signs at junctions, I was convinced that the suburb of Mondeor is only the area "east of the M1 Highway" but the mall's website states that the mall itself is part of Mondeor, despite being west of the M1 Highway. Looking at this last sentence, can we safely say that Southgate, Gauteng is not a suburb & the name only applies to the mall? Can we say that the Southgate Shopping Centre is actually part of Mondeor & there is no suburb named "Southgate"?

In a similar manner, we have an article named Northgate, Gauteng & we also have Northgate Shopping Centre, Johannesburg. You'll notice that the article for the mall specifically says "it is in Northriding". So, even here, does the name "Northgate" only apply to the mall or is there actually a suburb with the same name? Is the mall in Northriding or not?

So, I am asking if the name "Southgate" applies to a "suburb of Johannesburg" or just to the mall & I am asking the same for "Northgate". GeographicAccountant (talk) 13:33, 12 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Northgate - seems to be a suburb with a residential population that includes a shopping centre called Northgate. On the other hand, there is a suburb called Southgate but is purely a commercial area that also includes a mall called Southgate in addition to various other retail ventures. Hope that helps. Conlinp (talk) 12:14, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Conlinp, Thanks for the response. So, It is agreed that Northgate is not a section of Northriding but is a suburb on its own & that Northgate Shopping Centre is indeed located in a "suburb of the same name". It is also agreed that Southgate is not a section of Mondeor but is a suburb on its own & that Southgate Shopping Centre is indeed located in a "suburb of the same name".
 * In this case, I'll leave the Southgate Shopping Centre article as it is currently, as it has already been edited to state this information. I'll also go to the Northgate Shopping Centre, Johannesburg article and change "It is located in Northriding" to read "It is located in Northgate".
 * Thanks for the response. GeographicAccountant (talk) 00:50, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

GA nomination for Albert Luthuli
Hello all, I just want to inform everyone that I've nominated the article Albert Luthuli for GA and ask for your help | reviewing it. Thanks. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 15:18, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Looking for a collaborator
I started Draft:Food security in South Africa some time ago, but stopped actively working on it recently. Thus far I have a collection of sources and a basic article structure. I'm looking for someone who would be interested in working on it with me. I've looked at several other "Food security in " articles and noticed that they are frequently rated as important articles by both the Food and respective Country Wikiprojects. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:40, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Neopaganism in South Africa
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Neopaganism in South Africa that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject.  ❯❯❯  Raydann  (Talk)   06:53, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Armorial
Draft: Armorial of South Africa. Any help appreciated. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 20:54, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Angolan Civil War
Angolan Civil War has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments
Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a class parameter to WikiProject banner shell, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to WikiProject banner shell, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass WPBannerMeta a new custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:24, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Johannesburg Demographics
Hi, People!

I left a concern at Talk:Johannesburg about the infobox content.

May somebody read what I wrote & reply. Thanks.

GeographicAccountant (talk) 06:17, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Nhlanhla "Lux" Dlamini
Another editor has tagged Nhlanhla "Lux" Dlamini for prod deletion. If you can improve the article to keep it from being deleted, please go ahead. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 04:56, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Edenburg & Rivonia in Sandton
Hi, People!

If we look at the Edenburg, Gauteng & Rivonia articles, it seems like the two suburbs are "one and the same area"!

Is this true? And if it is not, why is the writing like this in both articles?

How would you recommend the introductions be edited? GeographicAccountant (talk) 20:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Okay... It seems like my attempts at trying to let relevant people know of issues is not successful! So, these pages will stay as they are, as I am not sure how to "improve" those introductory sentences (& I do not think "erasing" the content will work)! GeographicAccountant (talk) 21:27, 25 June 2023 (UTC)