Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spain/Archive 2

Scope
Hi all. Combining the efforts of editors interested in Spain and Spain-related topics is definitely a useful idea. Do we want to identify any particular priorities for WikiProject activity? --Nick Boalch \ talk 12:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll kick off with a suggestion. Why don't we have a monthly featured article drive, with the aim of getting one chosen article to WP:FA standard (via WP:GA standard if necessary!) through collaborative editing. I'll suggest Adolfo Suárez as our first candidate... --Nick Boalch \ talk 23:08, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll try to add something here from the Spanish version. Cheers -- Szvest 14:28, 26 May 2006 (UTC) Wiki me up&#153;  á
 * To get this project of the ground, I think we should take a top-down approach. Of all the articles in this project, Spain is the most important, since it summarizes everything else. Therefore, that should be our first target for FAC. In the process of improving the main Spain article, we will undoubtedly have "leftover" FA-quality information that we can plug into daughter articles, thus making it easier to write more FAs. Tell me what you think. Lovelac7 23:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Natural Wonders of Spain
Congratulations! I've been testing Wikipedia's coverage of Natural Wonders of the World, and Spain had the most missing articles:


 * Carlista Cavern
 * Ciudad Encantada
 * Drach Caves
 * Mascún Gorge
 * Ojo Guareña
 * Ordesa Valley
 * Los Mallos de Riglos
 * Torcal de Antequera

Although I searched for alternate names, it's possible some might already exist. If not, then you have some fun new articles to write! —Keenan Pepper 23:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for this -- I'll try and start articles on these over the next few days. --ⁿɡ͡b Nick Boalch \ talk 15:02, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Cool! I'll help if I can... you can put nonexistant articles on your watchlist, right? —Keenan Pepper 17:16, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Stubs
Hi, I have added Spain-company-stub to your list of stub types. The tag is currently not used on all articles deserving it so it would be cool if you could help WP:WSS by adding the template to any stubs about Spanish companies you know. Be aware that such articles should still be "double-stubbed" with the appropriate company-type stub such as manufacturing-company-stub. Thanks--Carabinieri 02:46, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Spain-org-stub
Hi guys,

The template Spain-org-stub has recently been created for the WikiProject Stub Sorting. It would be nice if you could add it to any stubs about organizations based in Spain you happen to come accross.

Thanx,

--Carabinieri 19:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Andora
A proposal has been made to include Monaco and Andora in the scope of WikiProject France, Kindly add your comments on the ongoing discussion there. STTW (talk)  09:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Monaco doesn't make sense at all, but Andorra should be considered. Mountolive 05:47, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Same-sex marriage in Spain FAC
Same-sex marriage in Spain has been nominated as a featured article candidate here. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to turn the article to featured quality. Cheers Raystorm 15:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Is this wikiproject still active? Raystorm 12:59, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, anyway, Same-sex marriage in Spain became a FA yesterday, just so you know. Cheers Raystorm 13:19, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

What to do
Hi i would like to help with this project but need suggestions on what to do, thanks

Looks like you can pick about anything, and you'll be in charge! How about trying to recruit people to come to the WikiProject page, and see what everyone wants to do? Espana Viva  08:25, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * There are a lot of basic articles to be written about Spanish culture. Search in the category: Spain or category:Spanish culture and you will find the absences. Some evident examples: look at these sub-categories: Category:Spanish society, Category:Gardens in Spain Category:Romanesque sites in Spain It depends on your interests and knowledge about the subjects... You can also enlarge existing articles, or translate good articles from Spanish Wikipedia to cover the missing subjects. Anyway, I am not the creator of the project and I participate in a rather non-organised and "individualistic" way. Perhaps a good work would be precisely to find the voids and organise the priorities for the project--Garcilaso 11:31, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * And, of course, welcome to EspanaViva and Raystorm to the project! It will be as alive as we want to. Cheers!--Garcilaso 11:34, 31 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm. Thanks. I'll think about joining. Cheers Raystorm 13:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Bullfighting
Hello. This project claims the article Bullfighting as falling under its domain, so I thought I would bring it to your attention that I have started a discussion about the article's status as a Featured Article. I would appreciate some help with it if anyone has some time. Please discuss it Talk:Bullfighting. Thank you. --Falcorian (talk) 16:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

How about tagging all the Spain-related articles!
One of the basic things that needs doing is putting the   tag on all Spain-related articles! I've added dozens over the past few days, and there's tons more to go! So. . . one thing that needs doing is definitely just putting the   tag on the top of the Discussion page of all the articles that we roam through.

Another thing, anybody up for adding a rating system (the way that many other Projects do)? I'm afraid that level is beyond me! Espana Viva  17:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I could help with the WikiProject tagging, currently I am running STTWbot to tag France and Germany related articles. A prior request for approval has to be made at Bot requests, to enable my bot to tag Spain articles. STTW (talk)  19:30, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Would you consider Eva Hache and Anabel Alonso as coming under the interest of this project? Raystorm 19:50, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I have added the aricles to the STTW  (talk)  20:22, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice. :) Raystorm 20:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I've made the request for the bot described by STTW. Just curious - how does that work? How can a bot know what's a Spain-related article or not? Plus, what happens next? How do we know if its approved? Full of curiosity -> Espana  Viva  22:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm asked STTW for authorization to have a bot add the   tag to Spain-related pages.  When I asked STTW how the bot actually works, here's the response:


 * "There is nothing really tricky about it, the tagging is done based on the category. So you tell me the categories which belong to Spain and I could do the tagging. For example articles belonging to should be covered by the WikiProject Spain and perhaps many of the underlying subcategories. STTW  (talk)  07:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * So that means two things for this Project -


 * (1) We've got to come up with a list of all the Spain-related categories to give to STTW, and
 * (2) We've got to make sure that all the Spain-related articles are in fact in Spain-related categories!

PS: Just to give you a sense of scale, WikiProject Spain has about 200 articles with the   tag; the WikiProject France has about 10,000 articles with its tag, and WikiProject Germany has over 9,000 articles! Espana Viva  15:10, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

FAR Bullfighting
Bullfighting has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --Falcorian (talk) 01:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Bot running - adding WikiProject Spain tag to over 13,000 articles
The bot is currently running, and is adding the WikiProject Spain tag to over 13,000 articles. I do believe that this project is about to become a busier place. ¡Ojalá! Espana Viva  13:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, we had to stop the bot for technical reasons, and will be trying again in the near future. Espana Viva  07:51, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Pity! It would be great to have that bot. I just have no idea about how a bot works, but you have my support for whatever may be necessary. Cheers!--Garcilaso 10:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Which bot is that guys? --  Szvest   -  Wiki me up ®  11:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, here's the bot saga . ..
OK, here's the bot saga. The magicians have a way to give us a list of all the "Spain-related" categories, by starting at the top Spain category page, and then sytematically opening every sub-category listed on that page, and then opening every sub-sub-category listed on those sub-category pages, etc. They gave us a list of over a 1000 Spain-related categories. I then went through this machine-generated list, deleted a few that appeared too extraneous, and added a few that it missed (like "Spanish poems"). The end result is this page.

The magicians also created an automated feature (that's the bot) which will go to each article that is in one of these listed "categories," go to the talk page of each article, see if there's already a WikiProject Spain tag, and if not, will add one. We have to tell it which category to go to, and the little bot will run around adding the WikiProject Spain tag. The bot counted that there were over 13,000 articles that fell within a Spain-related category or sub-category.

Unfortunately, we had to stop the bot because it was adding the WikiProject Spain tag a little too broadly. For example in a collection of "Colonial Mexico" articles (that is, during the time period that Mexico was controlled by Spain), there were a handful of Aztec-related articles, which had the WikiProject Spain tag attached to them. While these Aztec-related articles related to events which occurred during and after the Spanish conquest, there wasn't really a particular Spain-related connection. So, rather than anger the Aztec-interested editors, we stopped the bot from running until we could fine-tune it a bit. (See discussion here.)

Ironically, there was a similar bot running for the Afghanistan WikiProject at the same time, and that resulted in a bunch of WikiProject Afghanistan tags on topics relating to the Islamic period in Spain - none of which have anything to do with Afghanistan (I deleted the tags I could find). So I understood the problem of a too broad application of this bot.

Where we are: I understand that this sounds tedious, but the alternative is to add the tag manually to over 10,000 articles! It certainly will be easier to run the bot, say, 50 times with smaller groups, rather than do all that manual tagging!
 * We have the list of machine-generated categories here. We just need to through these categories more carefully, and make sure that (1) it is a Spain-related category, and (2) the articles in that category are appropriate to be tagged.
 * Next, on a more small-scale level (maybe 10-25 categories at a time), start going through the categories and requesting that the bot go through this smaller group of categories, and add the tag to the talk pages of the articles in that group of categories.
 * Deal with any objections/reactions caused by the tag-adding bot for that smaller group of categories.

So, who's up for lending a hand on this? While I'm prepared to do much of the heavy lifting, if you contact me on my talk page, I'll give you tips on how to lend a hand.

PS: Before the bot was stopped it did add many hundreds of pages - we're now close to 800 talk pages tagged (up from just about 200 several days ago).

Please let me know if you'd like to lend a hand! Espana Viva  15:09, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Currently a lot of inappropiate articles are tagged. Agathoclea 08:13, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Back to the bots
We're going to give this a second try, with a bot adding the WikiProject tag in smaller groups of categories at a time. That way, we can deal with any "over-inclusion issues" as they arise. Espana Viva  21:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

First trial run with bot was a big success!
We were successful in our trial run using a bot to add the WikiProject Spain tag to all the articles in the Category:Spanish culture. We will be continuing to run bots to place the WikiProject Spain in this articles. The articles with new WikiProject Spain tags are archived here. Espana Viva  07:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Well done! I admit technical aspects are not my forte, thanks for all your work with this bot issue. It should be a great help tagging articles. :-) Cheers Raystorm 18:27, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Second run with bot also appears to be a success
Gaining in confidence, the bot has now added the   tag to 20 categories of our category list. If you are interested in seeing which categories have been "processed" (tags added) already, please check here. Espana Viva  07:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Is there a list for articles which are mistagged by the bot? Alghero got a tag, although it is in Italy, through Category:Catalan Countries. Physchim62 (talk) 01:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom got the tag too. I don't see any connection of the Queen with Spain except being a distant cousin of the Spanish King. -- Joshua  C  hi  e  w  11:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * That one came about through Category:Monarchy in Spain &rarr; Category:Order of the Golden Fleece &rarr; Category:Knights of the Golden Fleece. This last category has 401 articles, most of which are not particularly related to Spain... Physchim62 (talk) 11:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ditto on Ludwig II of Bavaria. We've since removed the tag. samwaltz 15:25, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Request for Comment
There is a dispute going on concerning Template:Comarques of Catalonia, where some editors wish to include areas which were historically part of Catalonia (e.g. La Franja of Aragón) whereas other editors feel that the template should be restricted to the present-day autonomous community. Comments from editors are requested at Template talk:Comarques of Catalonia. Physchim62 (talk) 13:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * You know mines... hehehe ;) Maurice27 08:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Update re bot runs
As of this posting, the bot has been fine-tuned technically, and has tagged about 2500 articles, in over 100 categories. There has been some over-inclusion (see above), but the percentatge has been running (I'm guessing) well under 5%, and likely closer to 1%. Over-inclusion inquiries are being handled manually. We are continuing to move through Spain-related categories at the pace of about 30 categories per 24-hour period (averaging about 600-700 articles per run). This pace allows the bot adequate time to do its job, and allows us adequate time to deal with any resulting issues. Espana Viva  05:11, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to new people, and still looking good re bot runs!
One of the important benefits of adding all these tags is that interested editors see them, come to this WikiProject talk page, and start conversations and projects. Hence, each of you new people, don't be afraid to WP:BE BOLD, and step up to volunteer or suggest tasks!

Our bot magician has now increased the number of categories processed per "bot run" up to 40 categories per day. At this point, the WikiProject Spain tag has been added to thousands of articles (up from just several hundred a few weeks ago). We are about one-quarter of the way through this process. Espana Viva  17:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * You know, it would be helpful if the project tag had an assessment system like other projects. That way we could classify articles in terms of quality and class and focus efforts towards raising standards in Spain-related articles. Just a suggestion. Raystorm 19:21, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Raystorm - I agree that setting up an assessment system like other projects is definitely a great idea! Do you want to look into the logistics of how to set up a system like that? I can see what you're talking about like on the WikiProject France page, but I wouldn't know how to get that in place here! Espana Viva  09:05, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hehe, I have no idea either. I had to ask for help so I could get one for a wikiproject on the Spanish Wikipedia. :-) Do you think that a blatant copy-paste of code would work here? Cheers! Raystorm 13:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Catalan nationalism too obvious on Wikiproject:Spain articles

 * Hi everybody. I just joined to wikiproject:spain because I think I can bring some help to spanish related articles, sometimes improving, sometimes creating. Being French, I've been living in Spain for almost 15 years. The template just above is a draft of the concept. I would love to see all the project to add or remove facts from it to get us all to the best one possible.


 * On a complete different hand. I've noticed that in multiple wikiproject:Spain related articles, pan-catalanists users are biasing the content without any response from this project. A good example is above's "Request for Comment" by Physchim62. Where comarques from Aragon are CLAIMED to be Catalonian Historic territories. Making an unaccurate claiming and a frontal attack to aragonese territory. See La Franja. I've been trying to revert some of this articles to a "what I think" is a more neutral version, not forgetting to add my comments in each talk-page. This pan-catalanists users (Toniher and Joanot) are acting in complete freedom and I would like to listen to this project's members opinion before continuing to act. Even more when now I am considering myself a member of this project.


 * I will now explain what is happening:


 * Valencia (autonomous community): In this article, the neutrality and factual accuracy is disputed. Because I defend the idea that Castilian should be called Spanish in english wikipedia and that Catalan should be called Valencian (that's what valencian laws says).
 * There is a template about Catalan-speaking world that EspanaViva  would recognise as very close to my first template "Spain Close Up". I believe this template is biasing the article if they obmit another with Spanish facts. This template also adds links like History of Catalonia, Generalitat de Catalunya, Politics of Catalonia in a Valencian page. I really do believe they don't belong there. And my spanish template is erased claiming it has no link with Valencia.
 * In the History section, factual accuracy is disputed because I defend the idea that all the people from each and every territory of the late Crown of Aragon should be called "Aragonese" instead of (e.g. Catalan and Aragonese colons).
 * The spanish naming of this community (Comunidad Valenciana) is erased from the top of the right infobox, while ALL the other spanish communites sharing 2 official languages do have their names writen in both languages. (e.g. Catalonia, Galicia).


 * Nueva Planta Decrees: This article, about a SPANISH law, has the Catalan-speaking world template included. I, again believe it should not be there if there is not another template about the rest of Spain "neutralizing" the biasing.


 * Balearic Islands: Same as above.


 * La Franja: Same as above.


 * I believe there are many more pages biased to a pan-catalanist version. I would like the members of this project to participate with their opinions about this. Not only because I believe these articles are being biased, but also because I find this acts unpropers of the encyclopedic tone wikipedia should have.


 * Regards, Maurice27 15:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Without completely entering the discussion about whether those users are biasing those articles or not, I'd like to note that in this Wikipedia, and following what international news media do, 'Spanish' is preferred to 'Castillian'. However, I don't think Catalan should be called Valencian -we even have a Catalan Wikipedia. About the POV: well, get reliable sources for your 'ideas', and if they get deleted regardless, I suggest contacting an administrator. To be honest, I don't think you should be so bothered about the 'template war'. Just add another template that you think will further improve the information of the article. Templates per se are not POV -they are just a collection of 'See also' links in most cases. If the infobox is lacking Comunidad Valenciana, just re-add it stating your reasons at the summary edit _and_ the talk page. If it keeps getting reverted without further discussion, again I suggest contacting an admin to prevent an edit war. Finally, I don't entirely understand what you mean by 'pan-catalanist' version. Simply mentioning Catalonia is not POV per se. Anyway, that's just my take on the issue. :-) Cheers Raystorm 16:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Spain-related "barnstar"
Well, I find this development quite interesting. Here are my first proposals:

Barnstar 1

Barnstar 2

"E" barnstar

"Ñ" barnstar

And, considering myself an airplane and air forces freak, I gave the Ejercito del Aire Barnstar a try

Ejercito del Aire Barnstar

Let me know what you think... Regards, Maurice27 17:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

¡Excelente!

 * Thanks to Maurice27 for his continuing efforts to bring fresh ideas to this Project! Just to keep the terminology straight, I think that what Maurice27 is proposing is a WikiProject awards and not technically a Barnstars.  I think that the difference is that WikiProject Awards are given for work related to a specific topic (like Spain), and Barnstars are given for work across topics.  A small distinction I know, but a good one to know.  So when Maurice27 is finished, he'll be presenting his proposed new Spain WikiProject Award to Barnstar and award proposals.  Hmmm, I just saw something a bit disturbing there:
 * "Awards should not, in purpose or image, concern any nation, race or creed over any other."
 * Maurice27, perhaps it would make sense to get an idea if something like this is even going to be OK, before you spend more time on it! ¿Qué piensas?/What do you think? Espana  Viva  19:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I rad that to, "Awards should not, in purpose or image, concern any nation, race or creed over any other." I think they refer to having svastikas or other symbols which refer to the oppression of people targeted by the cruel exercise of power in a society or social group. So I think there's no problem in having the spanish colours or seal in it. See an example with Hong Kong.

--> the page is WikiProject Hong Kong


 * We could have the "E" one for history related articles, and the "Ñ" one for the spanish language related articles, for example. I don't know, it's up to all. And I guess other people would like to contribute. Ahhhh 10 AM... Press and breakfast time... See you by midday.. Regards, Maurice27 08:59, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, well that makes sense. If you want my reaction to the four designs above - I like the concept of the first two, but the center seal design is too small for me to see!  Can you color the star with the Spanish colors in an interesting way?  About the "E" and "Ñ", I think I read somewhere that the award has to be the shape of a star . . . is that right?  I happened to see the discussion on the WikiProject awards page about the proposed California designs - is there anything in that discussion that would be helpful in designing the Spain WikiProject award?  Espana  Viva  14:59, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I had plenty of problems to find a nice and clear CIRCULAR seal. As the one in the current flag is almost rectangular it does not fit well on the barnstar, I had to take a picture of one of my pins (which has a round seal), but if I want it to fit inside the barnstar, it gets too small. I could try to use the seal in the flag of the first republic which is an oval, but it lacks the fields of Aragon, Navarre, Granada and of course the Fleurs de Lys. Flag of the first republic. About colouring the barnstar, Could you tell me which program is used? I can't find my way around with Photoshop. About the "E" and "Ñ", there's one without a star shape [[Image:Wikiwings2.png|100px]]. Anyway, I think that if a wikiproject wants an image different of a star as their award, why couldn't they? Regards, Maurice27 22:21, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion

 * First, does anyone have any other thoughts or comments for Maurice, who's doing a great job in a lot of areas!


 * Second, Maurice, I've been reading through the talk page at Barnstar_and_award_proposals, and I wonder if you would like to ask a question in advance to one of the contributors there about the star-shape rule thing? I would just hate to have you spend a lot of time coming up with an interesting and wonderful design, and then have it turned down on that proposals page because of some silly rule there.  Would you like me to post the question about how strict that star-shaped design restriction is?


 * Again, many thanks! Espana  Viva  17:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure, make it so! BTW take a look at the czech project new proposal... I just love it! Maurice27 21:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I have one comment ... so far there are few geographically related awards. I can explain this at length another time, but I suggest you check out Barnstars/Barnstar_of_National_Merit. --evrik (talk) 18:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Possible solution?
User:evrik (who has been very active on the Barnstar_and_award_proposals page) responded to my request for information here in a very useful way. It turns out there already is a basic "Spain barnstar" (see above right), and after looking at the Czech Republic project page, there may be more as well we could do. Maurice, do you think you could work with the existing "National Merit" award? Espana Viva  19:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure I could... Let me think some ideas... But I would also like to hear what Evrik has to say before... Maurice27 22:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC) (p.s. Thanks Evrik!)


 * Meanwhile, because I like the Czech one sooooo much, I made this other one: large size and small size. Maybe it gives more ideas... Maurice27 00:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Please post any questions on may talk page. --evrik (talk) 14:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Vía de la Plata
The Vía de la Plata article is now translated from the spanish one. Please read if there is any bad english gramar. I also did a "Roman roads" template (at the bottom) with links to all the ones I could find to have an article in english. Regards, Maurice27 20:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

CATALONIA IS NOT SPAIN
REMOVE ALL CATALONIA-RELATED ARTICLES ON THIS WIKIPROJECT! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.176.161.201 (talk) 10:50, 19 February 2007 (UTC).


 * Yes, Catalonia is part of Spain. Raystorm 22:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Any reactions?
Should this WikiProject treat all the provinces of Spain as part of this WikiProject? or should this WikiProject leave out any of the parts of Spain? Any reactions? Espana Viva  17:36, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Not being part of the project myself, I would say to include. It is part of international accepted Spain. Agathoclea 18:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Last I checked, Wikipedia was an encyclopaedia, not a vehicle for various forms of extreme nationalism. Spain is Spain, whatever the idiotic utterings of outraged Catalans. Albrecht 19:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * When I woke up this morning, Catalonia was still part of Spain... And wikipedia is not a political pamphlet! Maurice27 21:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Anything related to Spain (including Paella and FC Barcelona) should be part of the project. --  FayssalF  - Wiki me up ®  21:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Include all. Raystorm 22:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

All autonomous regions of Spain uphold the national constitution, thereby agreeing they form part of Spain. Therefore, Spain should encompass every autonomous region whether some vandal likse it or not. Then again, I'm Castillian, so I may be biased. ;) JonCatalan 20:45, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Let´s include all Spanish provinces in this wikiproject, no matter of the existence of regional wikiprojects. They should be complementary, not exclusive. --Garcilaso 15:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Is there an admin amongst our jolly crew?
As we're moving through our renovation of this proj, occasionally things will come up that would be helpful if there were an admin lending a hand - is there an admin who's watching this page and could occasionally lend a hand? Espana Viva  18:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Lending a hand for...? --  FayssalF  - Wiki me up ®  19:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm also an admin and happy to help out with anything that needs the tools; although my project time is very, very limited at the moment I will try to keep an eye out! --ⁿɡ͡b Nick Boalch \ talk 12:36, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Reaction on their part: "The Empire Strikes Back"
Please, take a look to what has been created this same afternoon... WikiProject Catalan-speaking Countries I would like to note that these people are the ones reverting time after time every single edit in "theoretically project spain" articles. Please, take a look at Valencia (autonomous community) and its talk-page to see the explanation by good-faith people about their reverts, Catalonia (whose editing is disable because of them), or Balearic Islands among others. I would like to ask if a same article can be part of 2 projects at the same time. I'm would like to mention that not only "geographical" articles are in "danger of biasing" (that's my opinion) but pages like the Nueva Planta Decrees, Crown of Aragon also... And from Espanaviva "any reactions?" section, I think the members of this project agreed to treat all the provinces of Spain as part of this WikiProject .Let me know your response Maurice27 21:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm not sure what to do here. Does anyone have any ideas who to bring this to the attention of?  Perhaps one of our admin friends could lend a hand here as well?  Is there some place to bring these kinds of issues within Wikipedia?  Espana  Viva  01:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Maurice, I've been looking at some of the articles that you mentioned (and other articles), and it looks like both Project banners are still in place on those articles. Are there any instances where you think that the WikiProject banner has been improperly removed?  Espana  Viva  01:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * None that I Know, but, now, who gets the "right" to improve the article? If any of our members decides to translate, improve or create one of those articles, They can revert or edit it claiming it is part of their project... Then, why the need for wikiprojects? We will come to a normal war of edits again. Maurice27 08:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

We are experiencing the same dilemma at the African project (i.e. see discussions at Wikipedia talk:Africa-related regional notice board). However, the issue is a bit not of this complexity. I suggest everybody remains cool-headed and raise the issue to WikiProject Council in order to get a broader perspective in terms of dealing w/ this. --  FayssalF  - Wiki me up ®  10:17, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Live and let live. There are a number of articles that fall under a number of projects. Munich air disaster is (or should be) covered by WP:GER, WP:MUC, England, football and aviation. Each got their unique perspective. In our strive of NPOV we invite these different perspectives. The idea of WikiProjects is to identify articles that are important and need improvement as well as to co-ordinate the effort to achieve that goal. They are not designed to re-enact real-life battles. Any roving armies will be stopped. Agathoclea 14:15, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I totally agree but in case of dispute the most appropriate place to solve these kind of issues is at the Council. --  FayssalF  - Wiki me up ®  14:42, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

One important thought for all is that no Project owns any article. Members of a project can edit articles with their project banner, or with other project's banners. Just because an article has a WikiProject Spain banner does not mean that other editors are not "allowed" to work on that article.

If there is a dispute about edits, then that could be resolved in the normal way. Espana Viva  20:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There seem to be several disputes, but to address this particular one, is objecting to the very existence of WikiProject Catalan-speaking Countries. If he had taken a look at the entry page for this project, he would have seen that there are also WikiProject Galicia and WikiProject Basque. None of these seem in any way harmful: I cannot see why this WikiProject would want to "take over" projects which (in the case of Galicia at least) predated it. There is plenty of editing for everyone to do without starting turf wars or pretending that we are in some way the United Nations. Physchim62 (talk) 12:16, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Of course there is no harm in having multiple related wikiprojects. The problem is when some members of a certain wikiproject believe in that some articles cannot be part of another wikiproject (i.e. Catalonia). Happy editing to everyone but be aware of POV pushers. --  FayssalF  - Wiki me up ®  12:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * If anyone wants to have a more general discussion of the question of multiple tagging, there are several threads at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council. Physchim62 (talk) 12:48, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

That WikiProject Spain admin request
Hola, Fayssal - as you may have noticed, we've been rolling out putting the WP:SPAIN banner on Spain-related articles' talk pages, by using a bot to tag articles' talk pages which are in Spain-related categories. We've been at this for a couple of weeks, and we've gotten pretty good at it! Our general philosophy is that the benefit of the bot is that its easier to tag 100 articles and delete from the tag from 2 of them, rather than try to manually tag 98!

The bot only does 40 categories per day (usually around 300-500 articles), and we deal with any issues as they arise. Before the bot runs, we had gone through all the Spain-related categories, and tried to eliminate categories which appear to have a significant number of non-Spain-related articles (the plan is to deal with those manually later). But occasionally we goof, and tags appear on articles which are not sufficiently Spain-related to keep the tag.

So, that's a long way of letting you know that if you could lend a hand on the occasional "roll-back" where its easier to delete all the "over-included" tags from a category (and then go back and add some manually), than it will be to go through the category and delete the "over-included" tags one-by-one.

We currently have a situation like that with the Category:Fauna of Spain articles. Despite its name, that category actually resulted in tags on animals that are also outside of Spain. At this point, it would be easiest if you could contact the bot operator and let the operator know that you'll be rolling-back the run of that particular category (the operator's aware of the situation, and is expecting to be contacted by an admin to lend a hand on this). You can easily reach the operator on the bot project talk page. The operator's been very helpful!

If you're not able to lend a hand, that's understandable, just let me know! Espana Viva  19:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It basically entails working from the bots log to find out the first and last edit regarding the category and then just go of its contribution list to roll back all bar the obvious Spanish articles. If the bot created a new talkpage I have tended to delete, but they could be blanked. See my contribution & deletion log for recent examples. I'd prefer someone who has an interrest in the WP to do it to minimise errors. Agathoclea 23:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * No problems at all guys. I'll deal w/ that. --  FayssalF  - Wiki me up ®  10:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Done for Category:Fauna of Spain. I left species existing solely in the Iberian Peninsula and parts of the Spanish Pyrenees. I'll be verifying other categories. --  FayssalF  - Wiki me up ®  12:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much for helping out on this important project! Espana Viva  20:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Merger Proposal
There is merger proposal being discussed on the Spain Talk page that I am requesting (also) take place here. If you have comments, perhaps this page is the better place to collect comments. Espana Viva  20:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. I Already answered in the mentioned article talk-page Maurice27 00:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)