Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spain/Archive 3

New Spain-related template for bottom of pages
User:Maurice27 has been working on an interesting project for Spain - a navigation box that would sit at the bottom of articles, and would quickly steer readers to related areas. Similar templates are being used at the bottoms of states of the United States (see for example, New York, Florida and California) as well as Provinces of Canada (see for example Ontario). Some countries have a variation (see Japan).

The current draft being proposed by User:Maurice27 is:

Spain Close UP 2

Again, this is just a draft of the concept, and not the final content, format or order. We would also need to decide what pages to put this template on (all Spain-related pages? only the most "important" ones?)

Please let us know your thoughts about (1) the usefulness of a template like this, (2) the content, format and order, and (3) what articles it should go on! Espana Viva  08:15, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * While I appreciate Maurice27's efforts, I must say I'm unconvinced of the usefulness of such a huge template. If it were me what I would do is to have one with stepped levels, i.e. say on the Andalusia article I would have:


 * while on the Spanish Civil War article I might have:


 * This keeps the amount of non-content navigational material in an article reasonably low. (We are already using a template Provinces of Spain on the provinces articles to do pretty much this.)
 * If the consensus here is that we want to use the large one-fits-all template, I think we need to make sure it has an option to hide (i.e. use Navigation with image so that the users it annoys can put it away. --ⁿɡ͡b Nick Boalch \ talk 11:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok people, let's see what you think about this other one...

Information about Spain


 * What do you think? Maurice27 17:57, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Habsburg Spain and Adam Faanes' fantastic article on mid-nineteenth century Spain. Albrecht 18:58, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Done! ;) Maurice27 22:17, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I would certainly prefer shorter bottom templates, for example taking each of Maurice's sections and applying it as a template to articles in that class (history, architecture, politics, etc). A reader looking at Visigoth doesn't necessarily need to be taken easily to Spanish phonology, for example. Smaller templates are also easier to maintain (adding or removing articles), which is not a minor consideration given some of the disputes around at the moment. Physchim62 (talk) 16:00, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Proposal - how about combining some of these section titles, so as to present a lower-profile. For example, having
 * History and Geography
 * Languages, Arts, and Traditions
 * Government, Politics, and Administrative divisions
 * Regions, Provinces, and Cities

My own view is that one (smallish) template that offers easy access to a variety of the most important Spain-related articles in all categories is preferable. Again, I recommend taking a look at U.S. State's equivalents, such as New York or California. Espana Viva  17:07, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Proposal 2 - In fact, the BIG one was only intended for the Spain article. That's the perfect gateway for each one to be taken wherever he wants; History; Politics... I like the big one to include "everything"

I also agree with Physchim62 that in specific topics, the big template is not necesary. The last one can easily be sectioned to smaller parts like EspanaViva suggested, maybe adding a title like "History and Geography of Spain instead just History and Geography. I also did this other proposal to have all the information in all the pages. We can have the sectioned one:

Spanish History

or this navigation box:

Prueba wikispain

Let me know what you think to give them a try. Maurice27 21:06, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The current navbox at Spain does strike me as overkill. But so does the alternative proposal here, with eight boxes nested inside "Information about Spain". Seems to me that three navboxes are in order -- and you could display all three, one atop the other, on Spain, while displaying only one at a time on the other pages. The advantage of showing three smaller templates on the main page, rather than one huge template for that page and that page alone, is that it's easier to change one small template than to change the small one and remember to change the big one so the change will show up on the main Spain page.


 * One of the smaller templates would be "Geography of Spain" (or something like that), which would link to geography, autonomous communities/cities, provinces and the capital. I strongly feel that the communities and the provinces should be in the same template; people who aren't familiar with the minutiae of Spanish government may not realize the difference between a region and a province unless they see the separate lists side-by-side.


 * Another smaller template would be "Politics and History of Spain", constituted as Nick Boalch's example above, but with the political topics thrown in; the third would be "Culture of Spain," which would catch everything else: language, arts, traditions, etc. I recently revamped Public holidays in Spain and, for lack of anything better, put the Template:Spain Close UP 2 template at the bottom; it's too much for such a small article, though.


 * I can take a stab at effecting this change if you'd like. ``` W i k i W i s t a h W a s s a p 02:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Gibraltar
Although some aspects of Gibraltar, like history prior to 1704 and the outdated territorial claim could form part of this project, Gibraltar itself is not part of Spain any more than Portugal is.

The display of Spanish flags on anything to do with Gibraltar not acceptable.

--Gibnews 12:00, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The WikiProject Spain box doesn't imply that Gibraltar is part of Spain, simply that the Gibraltar article is a Spain-related topic that is or may be of interest to participants in this WikiProject. --ⁿɡ͡b Nick Boalch \ talk 19:27, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * We are sensitive to concerns about "over-tagging" if it really is an article that our members would not be interested in maintaining/contributing to, so I'll work with Gibnews to see exactly what the concerns are. If it is an article that it appears we'd be interested in contributing to, then I'll likely bring the discussion back here for further directions.   Espana  Viva  22:10, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Can I formally request that you remove Gibraltar from the scope of project Spain because Gibraltar is not Spain, although it would be reasonable to include the articles on the history of Gibraltar and the sovereignty dispute.

--Gibnews 09:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Dear Gibnews, even if I do understand perfectly your concern about this, I believe there is no such a problem. I'm not the one who did and/or included that tag, so I can't answer to you, but sadly, no one is willing to do a "Wikiproject: Articles related to Spain but which do not refer to spanish territory"... And as the tag explains, Gibraltar do enter in what we could call "Spanish History" and "Spanish Politics". regards, Maurice27 18:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Using that criteria you would need to put the banner on a lot of pages, but Gibraltar is not Spain. --Gibnews 22:54, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I've lost count now of the number of times that I and other contributors have explained to Gibnews that the WikiProject Spain tag does not in any way imply that Gibraltar is part of Spain. Given that he continues to ignore this simple and rational explanation, I suggest that we recognise engaging in discussion with him on this issue for the waste of time that it is and ignore him. --ⁿɡ͡b Nick Boalch \ talk 23:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Request to Members Living in Spain
I want to turn the article Battle of Gravelines (1558) into an A-class article (and possible FA), and fortunately Tierra, a publication of the Spanish Army, has provided a source. However, I'm currently studying in San Diego, California, and will not be visiting family in Spain this summer (I have to take a calculus class to get through my major more quickly). That means that I won't be able to access the myriad of sources that would help give me information on the topic. American sources don't mention the topic much, and it is generally overshadowed by the Battle of St. Quentin (1557 (another article I will try to turn into an A-class article, and perhaps FA). I would appreciate if anybody went to a local library and looked for sources and scanned in relevant parts of books or what have you (plus the cover and inside page where all book information is held). It would certainly make my job easier!  Gracias, JonCatalan 22:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * This link would be helpful. --  FayssalF  - Wiki me up ®  15:55, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Without a new discussion, would anybody be interested in joining a new Task Force which would be both under the Military History WikiProject and this WikiProject? The topic is simply Military History of Spain. I'm looking for around 5 interested people. JonCatalan 18:07, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 1 here. I am already a MILHIST wikiproject coordinator. --  FayssalF  - Wiki me up ®  12:24, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject tags
It looks the bot has added Wikiproject Spain tags to articles in the Almohad dynasty category. Several articles with only loose connections to Spain have been tagged such as Chellah, Koutoubia Mosque, and Hassan Tower. These places are all in Morocco, and I don't think they should be lumped in this Wikiproject. Other articles in this category may have been mislabeled as well.--Bkwillwm 10:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, and I've removed the WikiProject tags from those three articles. Bot tagging via categories is something of a blunt instrument and can lead to overtagging like this, but the operators of the bot are of course sensitive to reports of mistakes. --ⁿɡ͡b Nick Boalch \ talk 12:25, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Proofreaders needed on Spanish translation: Kingdom of Majorca
I just translated Kingdom of Majorca from the Spanish Wikipedia article, and I need someone to proofread it. Native Spanish speakers would be helpful -- there's some royal terminology involved, and I'm not sure if I got it right. More info available here. Thanks in advance! --Logomancer 19:18, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I may not be the best person to do this, but I'll take a look at it when I get home. Have you thought about a peer review? JonCatalan 19:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought about it, but my intent was simply to make sure I translated it correctly, not (solely) to improve the quality of the article. The Translation project guidelines suggested the relevant WikiProject be a good start for proofreaders, and I thought this was a good place to start. --Logomancer 20:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Translators es-en and Translation/*/Proofreaders Needed. --  FayssalF  - Wiki me up ®  13:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Catalan-speaking Countries WikiProject Spain and Andorra
There is a discusion here about Andorra and the wikiprojects --Kimdime69 00:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Reminder that articles can have more than one WikiProject banner, and that placing a WikiProject banner is not a claim of ownership or control over the content of that article. The banner simply means that members of that WikiProject will have an interest in maintaining/upgrading the article.  The Andorra article, for example, could easily be of interest to the France, Spain and Catalan projects without problems.   Espana  Viva  21:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * WikiProject France was also quite exemplary in asking for opinions before inculding Andorra in their remit. At the time, neither this WikiProject nor WikiProject Catalonia existed. This is really an argument about nothing&mdash;all that needs to be done is to replace the WP:FR tags with WP:CAT tags and everyone will be happy. Physchim62 (talk) 13:42, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject_Military_history/Spanish_military_history_task_force
WikiProject_Military_history/Spanish_military_history_task_force was created, and is considered a task force belonging both to WP Military History and WP Spain. JonCatalan 01:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Proposed WikiProject Project - select important articles for improvement
Now that a first big task of including the WikiProject Spain banners on some 10,000 articles is complete, I suggest we decide the next big WikiProject Project. I propose that we collaboratively try to move the Wikipedia Version 0.5 articles up to Good article status, and/or up to Featured article status.

You may know that senior WP editors have selected the most important articles for inclusion in CD releases. The Wikipedia Version 0.5 articles related to Spain are:
 * Spain - needs condensing, some copy-editing, and could use in-line citations to rise in rank
 * Pablo Picasso - likely already GA status; small touch-up needed; could use in-line citations to rise in rank
 * Diego Velázquez - likely already GA status or better; could use in-line citations to rise in rank
 * Miguel de Cervantes - likely already GA status and near FA status; mostly needs formatting clean-up
 * Madrid - likely at or near GA status (A-level rating from another WP); needs condensing, formatting clean-up
 * Barcelona - just demoted from GA status; could use in-line citations to rise in rank
 * Philip II of Spain - likely at or near GA status; could use in-line citations to rise in rank
 * Hernán Cortés - likely at or near GA status; could use in-line citations to rise in rank
 * Habsburg Spain - already a Featured article
 * War of the Spanish Succession - already a Featured article

Can we reach agreement to focus on one or two of these articles at a time to polish them? They are all very close to (or already at) GA status, and we could easily start moving these up in quality. Typically, these article improvement tasks work well with 1-3 primary editors, and the rest of us helping along.

Any suggestions/volunteers? Espana Viva  00:44, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd help with Madrid if someone helped me. I think we need to make Spain a GA asap too. :-) Raystorm 14:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Excellent, thank you Raystorm! Madrid is soooo close, and Spain's getting a nice tune-up by a couple of good editors (whom I'm going to invite to formally join here).  Other volunteers for these two (or others of these articles)?  Espana  Viva  15:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I will see what I can do with Barcelona. Physchim62 (talk) 13:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

¡Muy bueno, Physchim62! - see further thoughts below. Espana Viva  17:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Collaborations of the Month - Spain, Madrid, and Barcelona
As of now, I'm looking closely at Spain, Raystorm has volunteered for Madrid, and Physchim62 is speaking up for Barcelona.

Here's my suggestion - Let's ask WikiProject editors to focus on these three articles to start with, during the month of March. Rather than a "Collaboration of the Week," I suggest "Collaborations of the Month" and spend a solid month working on these three articles to get them into Peer review and GA status at a minumium. We'll come up with a "Collaborations of the Month" section and invite other WikiProject editors to focus on those three. Reactions? Espana Viva  17:06, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Cool. I need help with the references in Madrid, especially for the History section. I need at least one ref per paragraph. If someone could provide a few of them (from a book or whatever), it'd be really appreciated. Cheers Raystorm 10:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I will correct the English in Barcelona first, to avoid any accusations of Pro- or Anti-Catalanism :P Should be done by tommorrow. We need a decent history section in this article; all help welcome! Physchim62 (talk) 16:03, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Peer review requested for Madrid article
A Peer review has been requested for Madrid, the article about the capital city of Spain, and an article within the scope of WikiProject Spain. Please feel free to edit the Madrid article to improve it and/or leave a comment at Peer_review. Espana Viva  18:57, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Bullfighting
I'd like to remind everyone that Bullfighting is up for FARC. If anyone is interested in finding references for that article to avoid it being delisted as a FA, they should drop a comment at the FARC. Cheers Raystorm 14:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Help needed: Álvaro de Luna
Please see Talk:Álvaro de Luna. There is a possible vanity issue about a play that has been linked. I suspect that a native Spanish speaker, preferably one from Spain, will have a better chance than I to sort this out correctly. - Jmabel | Talk 19:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It's been three weeks, and not one person has commented on this. Please, this really could use knowledgable intervention. - Jmabel | Talk 04:59, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Madrid Peer review - assistance requested
A Peer review of the Madrid article has resulted in a number of very helpful and substantial suggestions to improve that article. If you are interested in improving this central article, please see the comments posted at the Peer review page, here. Espana Viva  03:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I added a Geography section (with fauna and flora) to the article. Also, some comments are made in the article's talk page to improve it. Maurice27 21:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorolla
I recently completed an expansion of Joaquín Sorolla y Bastida, which might merit an assessment rating. Thanks, JNW 04:48, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Coat of arms of Spain
I recently completed an expansion of Coat of arms of Spain, which might need an assessment rating. Thanks. --Maurice27 19:47, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Help with Doussinague
Hi. Could someone from the project fix the article Doussinague? It's actually about José Maria Doussinague y Teixidor (I think) who, the article claims, was once Spanish ambassador to Chile and part of the Franco government. However, I can only find sources in Spanish and the article is in dire need of cleanup and referencing. (It's also uncategorized but right now, I think it's a pretty secondary concern!) Thanks, Pascal.Tesson 02:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Done, although it could use some more work, particularly with finding and including definite years for his postings (and his death!). --ⁿɡ͡b Nick Boalch \ talk 08:10, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Bilateral relations discussion
I would like to invite you all to participate in a discussion at this thread regarding bilateral relations between two countries. All articles related to foreign relations between countries are now under the scope of WikiProject Foreign relations, a newly created project. We hope that the discussion will result in a more clean and organized way of explaining such relationships. Thank you.  Ed  ¿Cómo estás? 18:49, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

List of registered political parties in Spain
This page (all 242k of it) is up for deletion here. My own views are clear, but all comments would be welcome at the deletion discussion. Physchim62 (talk) 10:19, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

The Spain article is 66 kilobytes long
As the message tells when editing, it may be appropriate to split this article into smaller, more specific articles. See Article size. We should start to remove or reduce some sections.

We could start with the sections with their own main article. Any idea? --Maurice27 15:21, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Latin cultures
Hello everyone! You may want to go to Latin cultures an participate in the article and discussion. There are a lot of disputed statements... The Ogre 12:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Improved heraldic and vexillologycal spain related articles
Flag of Spain Spanish heraldry Let me know what you think, --Maurice27 17:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Dante Alighieri Society
The talk page of this society says it's been tagged by you chaps for improvement, which is lovely, but you do know that the society is all about promoting Italian and Italy? Nick mallory 08:17, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I've removed the tag since it was clearly not appropriate for that article. The articles are being tagged by a bot based on the category system, which means it sometimes gets a bit overzealous. --ⁿɡ͡b Nick Boalch \ talk 08:59, 28 April 2007 (UTC)