Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports Car Racing/Archive 3

Categorizing correctly (Commons)
Hi, I am cleaning up http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:24_Hours_of_Le_Mans with all its subcats. I am removing photos that show cars that did obviously not participate there. Some examples are, , , and even. But I am not sure what to do with photos showing cars that participated at Le Mans once but the photos were not taken at Le Mans. So that they are no authentic photos of the races in which they are categorized in. Some examples are, , , , and. In my opinion these photos should also become removed from Le Mans categories because otherwise you would have to be consequent and sort them into categories of each races in which they took part but not only Le Mans. I would prefer only authentic photos of Le Mans races to be sorted into the Le Mans categories like on this page. What would you do? --217.227.122.72 (talk) 23:42, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You could create a new category called "commons:Category:24 Hours of Le Mans cars" or something similar, and place the car's category (e.g. commons:Category:Ferrari 250 GT Berlinetta SWB, commons:Category:Porsche 356 B Carrera GTL Abarth, or commons:category:Audi R18 TDI) into it. It would be a lot of work to find every model raced, though.  As far as ex-Le Mans cars photographed elsewhere, I don't really know if those need to be collected separately, especially since cars can be re-painted in more famous liveries than they originally carried... —Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 06:02, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

SCCA National Runoffs
I went to the Sunday event, and I'm wondering how some of the classes are named here in Wikipedia. Specifically - American Sedan (AS), Formula 1000 (FB), Touring 2 (T2), and E Production (EP). One's that I have figured out is Formula Atlantic, GT1, and Sports 2000

I took photographs of many of the cars and definitely the winners. It was an ugly rainy day and the photos reflect the wetness. I'm sure that most of the afternoon drivers were soaked from head to toe and needed to change into dry clothes when they were done.  Royal broil  02:37, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd highly doubt WIkipedia would cover such categories, especially as they tend to be SCCA-specific and therefore are mostly amateurish in nature. Categories such as Atlantics and Sports 2000 are the few that have been utilized in other series.  The359  ( Talk ) 03:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I've had an idea for a List of SCCA classes article for a while, but haven't gotten around to doing it. Representative photos of every class would be useful. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 21:46, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * How many classes have their been over the life of the SCCA, that could become a quite long and even a complicated list if the classes have changed over time. The359  ( Talk ) 02:24, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, that's partly why it's still just an idea :). I know there's ~40 classes now, and the structure was completely different in the 50s and early 60s. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 03:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * If the article happens, please leave me a message on my talk page. I went to the Sunday Runoffs in 2009, 2010, and 2011 so I bet I photographed representative cars in most of the classes. I hope the article happens.  Royal broil  03:47, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

"Best finish" in Le Mans driver infoboxes
Over the past few days, I've noticed a few edits like this one, where the "Best finish" field in a driver's Le Mans infobox has been changed from their best overall result to their best class result. Which is preferable? (noting that the documentation for Infobox Le Mans driver doesn't provide any guidance). Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 01:46, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I imagine that best overall is a better statistic, since the early half of Le Mans races had multiple classes able to win the race overall. It's certainly possible to change the Class Victories section to Best Class Finish.  I just don't want that box to get too large or complicated, especially with the also recent addition of full statistics for every Le Mans race on a driver's page which, quite honestly, is a bit overdetailed for a "summary".  The359  ( Talk ) 02:13, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Or just remove the line from the infobox. If it's an interpretable stat rather than a hard and fast one, we probably shouldn't be making an attempt to judge. --Falcadore (talk) 07:07, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Le Mans Regulations
The Specs for LMP1 and LMP2 are exactly the other way round!

http://www.lemans-series.com/en/s02_corporate/s02p14_reglement.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.75.89.218 (talk) 22:31, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Racing Car?
There is no page on how a racing car works, (correct me if I'm wrong). Racing setup isn't that complete. And I, that means others, have questions (ones that can be answered by an article) that are pretty obvious. There is a page on F1 cars, but I can't find any on Grand Tourers or Touring Cars. By this I mean I can't find how these racing cars a setup: Brake systems; fuel systems; diffs etc. Has anyone else seen this, or is there a reason? Starfleet Academy "Live long and prosper." 03:45, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Edit: I should say that my question that I was hoping to find isn't one of these that I have stated, these are just examples. Starfleet Academy "Live long and prosper." 03:53, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Well really you're looking at it from the wrong angle. Formula One is one type of open wheel car, in which the rules are quite clearly laid out for this specific type of open wheel car.  A touring car or grand tourer however is not one specific type of car, it is a generic overview.  A more fitting example similar to Formula One would be something akin to Group C, Group 5 (racing), Super Touring, Super 2000, or Next Generation Touring Car.


 * As for how a racing car works, they work rather similarly to how a car works, why would they need a different explanation? Differences such as downforce are explained in other articles.   The359  ( Talk ) 04:04, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Maserati links
As a result of this discussion at WikiProject Formula One, all references to "Maserati" in Formula One race reports now link to Maserati in motorsport, rather than Maserati. Would anyone object to me making the same change for sports car race reports? As an example, in 1954 24 Hours of Le Mans, this:

| Maserati A6GCS

| Maserati 2.0L I6

would be changed to:

| Maserati A6GCS

| Maserati 2.0L I6

DH85868993 (talk) 13:53, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * No objections in general, but in the example given, it would be better to link the car to Maserati A6 or it's Maserati A6GCS redirect. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 23:39, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Category:2003 Le Mans Series season at CFD
I've listed Category:2003 Le Mans Series season for deletion. Please join the discussion here. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 04:02, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

2012 European Le Mans Series

 * Folks, the Le Mans Series will revert its name to European Le Mans Series (like in 2001). Those articles should be merged, like I did in the Spanish-language Wikipedia. Good luck! --NaBUru38 (talk) 14:30, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
 * First, the series is not reverting back to the European Le Mans Series name because the series was originally the Le Mans Endurance Series. The 2001 European Le Mans Series was an entirely different series.  Second, nothing official has been announced yet, therefore it can wait.  The359  ( Talk ) 18:34, 2 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The E-I article says they contacted the organizers, and that the change is coming, so we should at least be ready. I propose that the content currently on European Le Mans Series (minus the APLMS section) be moved to 2001 European Le Mans Series season.  There may need to be some admin trickery involved, like histmerging the two and then moving Le Mans Series to European Le Mans Series.  Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 23:52, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * This was the same idea I had been rolling in my mind, ELMS merged into the 2001 season, and moving the LMS article there. The359  ( Talk ) 01:28, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Some of the content of ELMS should be actually merged into the new ELMS/LMES/LMS article too. I'll do everything, contact the admins, and you fix the issues. --NaBUru38 (talk) 18:23, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm an admin. Let me know what needs to be done. I'm not familiar with the situation so I would need to understand the situation first before doing anything.  Royal broil  13:41, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


 * If you want to text-merge pages European Le Mans Series and 2001 European Le Mans Series season, then do so, but they cannot be history-merged because they have WP:Parallel histories. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:49, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Main page formatting
I have taken it upon myself to attempt to improve the look of the main project page a little bit. Before anyone freaks out I haven't actually changed the main page! I have, though, gone ahead and created some of the necessary pages to see my vision potentially come to life with the help and approval of the active members of this project. I have created a page WikiProject_Sports_Car_Racing/Tab_header that demonstrates what I'm thinking of. I was thinking something in the line of WikiProject_Military_history but hopefully different enough to distinguish us.

Thoughts or suggestions? I'm open and won't cry if I get completely shot down and my work deleted; this is Wikipedia after all. --Sabre ball (talk) 18:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)


 * It looks good, but we don't have anything to put under the Academy, Assessment, A-Class review, Contests, Awards, or Showcase tabs. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 04:48, 10 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Yeah, I was aware those tabs would be empty but I was hoping if I started the ball some others would help me roll it. We don't have to have every tab filled in from the start. We don't even have to have those tabs. Suggestions for other tabs? --Sabre ball (talk) 12:29, 10 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I've modified the tab header to remove most the tabs we don't currently need. I also filled several other tabs so that the content is hopefully well organized. Check it out please. All suggestions are welcome --Sabre ball (talk) 13:53, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Adding classes to Template:WikiProject Sports Car Racing
I'd like to propose we add classes to the Sports Car Racing template. I believe this would really help facilitate the advancement of the project. It would allow us to really see where we need to work and how much work we have to left to do. Granted, I realize we'll always have work to do.

As far as the template is concerned we merely need to   to the template. I will admit I got anxious and I've already created all the necessary categories. If anyone has any objections let me know. --Sabre ballTC 15:36, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I hate to have to respond to my post but after heavily reformatting the project's site and implementing classes into the project's template I have to admit I think it's thus far been a success. That is assuming you measure success in terms of how many of your edits have been reverted or pages created deleted. Given that, I would like to invite as many of the projects members as possible to assist me in grading the remaining un-assessed articles we have. They can be found here Category:Unassessed Sports Car Racing articles. Any and all help would be appreciated!! --Sabre ball t c 18:14, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's History Month
Hi everyone. March is Women's History Month and I'm hoping a few folks here at WP:Sports Car Racing will have interest in putting on events (on and off wiki) related to women's roles in racing history. We've created an event page on English Wikipedia (please translate!) and I hope you'll find the inspiration to participate. These events can take place off wiki, like edit-a-thons, or on wiki, such as themes and translations. Please visit the page here: WikiWomen's History Month. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to seeing events take place! SarahStierch (talk) 21:14, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Notability?
Are crew chiefs like Darian Grubb considered notable? Clarityfiend (talk) 05:07, 27 March 2012 (UTC)


 * My answer would be yes, but this isn't really the correct place to ask that. This WikiProject doesn't cover NASCAR. Instead I'd ask at NASCAR's own wikiproject or our shared parent project of WikiProject Motorsports. --Sabre ball t c 12:12, 27 March 2012 (UTC)


 * So far as I'm concerned, as long as you can fully and properly fulfill the terms of WP:GNG then you are good to go. As this point raised here is a fairly broad one I'm happy to answer here, and make the additional point that simply identifying a class of person who is notable isn't really helpful. Multiple, reliable, independent, significant sources are the key, no matter who they are or what they do.  Pyrop e  16:41, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * As a member of WikiProject NASCAR, generally crew chiefs are considered notable since there is enough independent reliably sourced information about them to meet the GNG (General Notability Guideline).  Royal broil  01:47, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Sports Car Racing vs Touring Car Racing
Whats the rational behind this project not covering Touring cars? The difference between the two, in my opinion, is so small its negligible. Supposedly sports cars are more expensive and more advanced, but series like DTM really run counter to that and in my opinion is a sports car racing series in all but the name. --Sabre ball t c 15:32, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Why doesn't it include open wheelers? The differences there are not great either. Sports car has for upwards of thirty years now been based on specialist racing cars where as touring cars are based on road going production models. GT cars are closer to Touring Car racing, but this is not the GT Wikiproject. GT cars are an offshoot of Sports cars and GTs are grouped together with Sports cars mainly for logistical reasons as Sports cars and GTs frequently race together. In truth Sports car have more in common with open wheelers than Touring cars.
 * Touring cars also almost always has not been an international class (unlike Sports cars which is almost always international) of racing but most often a domestic class of racing and as thus it has been handled by various Wikiprojects as British Motorsport and Australian motorsport.
 * And Touring car racing has its own advocate body in the Touring Car Racing taskforce.
 * Personally I completely reject that Sports cars is closer to Touring Cars than other branches of the sport. Using DTM has an example when it is very far from typical amongst touring car formulae highlights the flaws in your arguement. --Falcadore (talk) 01:03, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd argue that touring car racing and rally racing are much closer to each other, as they are both based on high production, low displacement cars and many of the rules in both forms of racing have allowed similar cars to compete in both disciplines. Group A, S2000, S1600, all apply to both categories.   The359  ( Talk ) 01:41, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I suppose I can't really argue with either of you on those points. I guess my issue is more a semantic one with the name itself. In my mind I suppose I look at racing in one of three categories: purpose built prototypes (lemans), purpose built open wheel prototypes (f1), and race cars that look like street cars. Don't ask where NASCAR fits into that. As, both of you have pointed out there are signifigant differences between touring and sports, but as a casual observer you're either racing what appears to be a street car or you're not. --Sabre ball t c 15:07, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhpas you're confusion is linked to what Sports car racing is - Sports car racing IS purpose built prototypes (lemans). Street car GTs like Ferrari 458s and Porsche 911s are a bit of an add-on to Sports cars racing, but not really. If that isn't well defined in the article lead maybe it needs to be redefined, or GT racing may need to be separated. Do you think the article lead needs to be re-written to better distinguish Sports Car racing from GT racing?
 * FYI, NASCAR is essentially Stock car racing, a category with Touring Car roots, although it evolved prior to the creation of Touring car racing, but like Australian Sports Sedan racing and Bernie Ecclestone's aborted 1988 World Touring Car regulations are actually Silhouette racing cars. --Falcadore (talk) 22:50, 27 February 2012 (UTC)


 * You're right. It is the difference between what the article calls "Sports prototypes" versus "Grand Touring." So if LeMans prototypes are "Sports Cars" the real problem is the difference between GT racing and Touring Car (TC?) racing. I don't think a new article needs created but I think would clarify up front (in the lead) that GT racing is a sub-class(?) of Sports Car racing and hint upon the difference between GT and Touring Cars. Neither GT or TC cars are mentioned in the lead. --Sabre ball t c 20:10, 2 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Touring cars are basically modified road cars. GT cars, at least at the higher end, such as the old GT1/2 are not; they are purpose-built and more related to silhouette racing than touring cars. Anyway, this discussion is absurd, touring cars have always been a totally different breed from sports cars. There is no common denominator. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.65.240.175 (talk) 16:26, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Talk:DeltaWing
A topic of discussion regarding references that differ from one another has begun at Talk:DeltaWing. Additional feedback would be helpful. Thanks, 72Dino (talk) 04:20, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

RfC on the use of flag icons for sportspeople
An RfC discussion about the MOS:FLAG restriction on the use of flag icons for sportspeople has been opened at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons. We invite all interested participants to provide their opinion here. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:52, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Aggregated racing driver infoboxes
User:Frietjes has proposed making changes to the various series-specific racing driver infoboxes (Infobox F1 driver, Infobox Le Mans driver, Infobox WRC driver, etc) to allow them to be embedded inside Infobox racing driver, such that a driver's article may contain a single infobox covering all the different series in which they have particpated, rather than multiple infoboxes - see Andy Priaulx as an example. You are welcome to express any views you may have on the matter at Template_talk:Infobox_racing_driver. DH85868993 (talk) 01:36, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Two Eric Lux
Hi, just fyi there's a mix up of links off Dyson Racing and 2008 24 Hours of Daytona. The outgoing links are going to the Luxembourg businessman who part-owns team Lotus Renault not to the American driver. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:36, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Eric Lux = fr:Éric Lux (homme d'affaires)
 * Eric Lux (racing driver) = fr:Eric Lux

NC/DNF cars in classifications
Hi, I worry that we have some serious mistakes in results tables of Sports Car Races. For example let's compare the race classification of 2012 24 Hours of Le Mans on Wikipedia with the official race classification. In official results cars that were not classified or retired are not ranked on positions. But on Wikipedia these cars are ranked on positions (all cars from P34 to P56). This means Sports Car Racing results on Wikipedia depart from official Sports Car Racing results. Shouldn't this be corrected? --87.144.244.203 (talk) 21:20, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

2012 season articles needing work
Time for my annual post about incomplete season articles. The following series articles are little more than tables. Most of them don't even explain what they are, whether they are open wheel series, where they are held, who won the series! Apparently a series as important as DTM considers the point score system more important than the series champion.

The situation is also encouraging new editors to be likewise poor in seasonal coverage.

So while the majority of series are in hibernation perhaps we could spend a few days improving these articles.

Surely it would be more important and productive than arguing over whether Mercedes or Mercedes AMG is the correct terminiology for a constructor? Less minuatae!

No mention of series winner: 2012 American Le Mans Series season 2012 Australian GT Championship season 2012 Blancpain Endurance Series season 2012 British GT season 2012 Campeonato Brasileiro de GT season 2012 Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge season 2012 European Le Mans Series season 2012 FIA GT1 World Championship season 2012 FIA GT3 European Championship season 2012 FIA World Endurance Championship season 2012 Ginetta GT Supercup season 2012 Ginetta Junior Championship season 2012 International GT Open season 2012 Lamborghini Super Trofeo season 2012 Porsche Carrera Cup Great Britain 2012 Porsche Supercup season 2012 Rolex Sports Car Series season 2012 Super GT season Series winner mentioned but no season review: 2012 Australian Carrera Cup Championship Incomplete results: 2012 Australian GT Championship season 2012 Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge season Thank you for your time. --Falcadore (talk) 05:31, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Indicates race summaries, but a lack of season review

#25: wrong start no. in 1978 LeMans grid
Hi,

the list of the 78 LeMans grid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans) contains in the line Kremer: "Porsche Kremer Racing" with the drivers Louis Krages, Dieter Schornstein, Philippe Gurdjian,	car type "Porsche 935/77", run "182 laps" the start no. "25".

As far as pics (i.e. see http://www.motorsport.com/lemans/photo/main-gallery/6-martini-racing-porsche-porsche-936-78-bob-wollek-j-rgen-barth-jacky-4&docid=1LlR6pGJ2JXNTM&imgurl=http://cdn-9.motorsport.com/static/img/mgl/300000/310000/315000/315600/315639/s6_1.jpg&w=150&h=100&ei=BdwTUY25L8GxtAaHm4GYBA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=386&vpy=532&dur=10027&hovh=80&hovw=120&tx=90&ty=43&sig=100017245835061834187&page=3&tbnh=80&tbnw=116&ndsp=52&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:100,i:4) and other documents suggest the number should read "45".

Thanks for condering a possible neccessary coreection.

Best regards dj0711 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.204.153.95 (talk) 17:33, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Different results for 2012 12 Hours of Sebring
Hi, can you please have a look at Talk:2012 12 Hours of Sebring? --87.144.249.201 (talk) 16:02, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Portal:Sports is up for featured portal consideration
This is a courtesy message to inform the members of this project that I have nominated Portal:Sports for featured portal status. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Sports. The featured portal criteria are at Featured portal criteria. Please feel free to weigh in.  S ven M anguard  Wha?  18:39, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Missing 'Class' and 'Importance'
WikiProject SCR

Could I ask you to assign a Class and Importance Rating to the McLaren article? Thank you kindly. MIVP - (Can I Help?) (Maybe a bit of tea for thought?) 08:41, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I've assessed the article as 'C' class. This project doesn't assign Importance ratings. DH85868993 (talk) 01:19, 7 March 2013 (UTC)


 * For importance assessments, we can just check the importance in the Wikiproject Motorsport. There's no need to assess all articles again. --NaBUru38 (talk) 23:28, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Requested move of '24 Hours of Le Mans' to 'Le Mans 24 Hours'
You are invited to join the discussion here. Petecarney (talk) 17:43, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Drivers Standings Tables
I've noticed that on the page for the 2013 ALMS as well as all the old Can-Am seasons from the 60's and 70's the tables for the drivers championship standings are formatted in such a way to show the points scored at each race rather than the color coded tables with the driver's finishing positions like the ones on the FIA WEC, F1, IndyCar, NASCAR etc. pages. I think the latter version is better because it shows you where EVERY driver finished, not just the ones who finished in the points. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.174.153 (talk) 21:31, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

racingsportscars.com reliability question
since the site is used all over think you guys should chime in. Please see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard -- Moxy (talk) 20:34, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It's very reliable for racing results, which is pretty much all it provides. On occasion, it's been more reliable than an official source (some of the earlier 2000s British GT results are clearly wrong on the official website, for example; cars inexplicably missing, drivers with incorrect nationalities or names, drivers having three separate entries in the championship standings, etc.) It's been used in GAs and DYK hooks for years, historically and recently. Most of the GA articles that fall under this WikiProject, and are for racing cars, use it as a source. And quite often, it is nigh-on impossible to find these results anywhere else online. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 16:08, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Being used elsewhere on Wikipedia does not address its reliability. British GT's website is constantly brought up as having errors, but this does not negate that official results do exist for other series and are free of errors.  These should always be used instead of other sources.  The359  ( Talk ) 17:45, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You are correct, and I always do so whenever possible. However, your comment does not address the fact that for a good majority of series, this is simply impossible (unless you happen to have access to a library of books, and even then, they'll only cover a few series). The fact it has been reliable enough for usage in GAs does address its reliability. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 22:39, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Mercedes-Benz C291 - no refs/sources as of 2014 - delete?
Hi. I noticed that the article for Mercedes-Benz C291 is tagged requesting sources/pointing out there are none, going back to Dec. 2006. This really isn't my area of interest or expertise, but I saw on the article talk page your project listed, so I thought I would make you all aware of it. I'm just learning more about Wikipedia so I don't know if there is danger the Mercedes-Benz C291 could be deleted b/c it's unsourced (??) - hopefully someone here is interested enough to ensure this doesn't happen in any case. Cheers. JDanek007Talk 00:44, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Mercedes-Benz C11 - no refs/sources as of 2014 - delete?
Hi. I noticed that the article for Mercedes-Benz C11 is tagged requesting sources/pointing out there are none, going back several years. This really isn't my area of interest or expertise, but I saw on the article talk page your project listed, so I thought I would make you all aware of it, like I did for the other Mercedes sports car article above ^^^. I'm just learning more about Wikipedia so I don't know if there is danger the Mercedes-Benz C11 could be deleted b/c it's unsourced (??) - hopefully someone here is interested enough to ensure that doesn't happen in any case. Cheers. JDanek007</b><sup style="color:olivedrab;">Talk 00:46, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It will not be deleted for being unsourced, the template is merely saying that information that could be questioned could be deleted if it does not have a source. There are sources out there, it was just not put inline as it should be on a Wikipedia article.  The359  ( Talk ) 17:34, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Template for individual car competition history?
I'm wondering if there is a generally accepted template for the competition history of a single car (such as for a one-off racing car or a particularly famous example of a production model). Something in a table form, that can sit in a section of the main body of the article. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks, Rssyng (talk) 20:47, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm a little confused by what you mean. Something like Porsche 919 Hybrid?  The359  ( Talk ) 21:56, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * This is sort of what I was thinking of, but I had in mind an even simpler table, perhaps with just "Race", "Course", "Date", "Driver", "Overall Result", "Result in Class" as the columns and individual rows for each race. I've been editing a couple pages for one-off vintage racing cars that only participated in a few races, often in different series, and that sort of series-oriented template seems cumbersome for those pages. Rssyng (talk) 23:10, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * All you need is a simple HELP:TABLE. There is nothing pre-made for something like that.  The359  ( Talk ) 23:35, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks. Rssyng (talk) 23:44, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

World Sports Racing Prototypes domain change -
The website called World Sports Racing Prototypes is often referenced as a source for some sports car racing data. For example here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSA_GT_Championship

The website was on a domain wsrp.ic.cz. But the provider ic.cz disabled direct access from abroad, so it is now needed to write a code to get there. As a results of this, the accessibility for common visitors became very difficult so a new domain was bought and the website was moved to www.wsrp.cz. For that reason I would like to ask you at Wikipedia, if it is possible to change all WSRP site references to the new domain.

The WSRP website used to be referenced by any of these domains:

wsrp.ic.cz (not updated since 2014)

wsrp.wz.cz (not updated since 2005)

www.wspr-racing.com (not updated since 2001)

Any of these should be merged under www.wsrp.cz, which is the only official website and the only one to be updated in the future. If you are able to do it, it would be great. I believe this would make the user experience of Wiki visitors better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.102.248.69 (talk) 21:43, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * It's something that will need to be done, yes, but how easily we will be able to undertake it will be the question. We may have to create a bot to change all the URLs to the current domain.  The359  ( Talk ) 21:46, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

"sportscar" v "sports car"
I invite interested editors to comment at Wikipedia talk:Typo Team DH85868993 (talk) 08:01, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Road America events June 21, 2014
I have tickets for the NASCAR Nationwide Series race at Road America next Saturday June 21. Included are Pirelli Word Challenge and SCCA Pro Trans-Am Series races. It sounds like a fun full day! I'll photograph all cars and any drivers that I see for all 3 events. Is there any other detailed photos that anyone wants? Hopefully the weather will cooperate but rain makes interesting racing too!  Royal broil  15:31, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Off hand, there's nothing really in Trans-Am that is of much interest, and I don't think there's anything unique in World Challenge that we don't already have photos of. The359  ( Talk ) 15:42, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time as the Pirelli World Challenge cars were lining up at 8:15am. I got pics of many cars and some drivers from the front of the field. I could positively identify several from their names on belt buckets: Anthony Lazzaro (racing driver), Jack Baldwin (racing driver), Butch Leitzinger, and Johnny O'Connell pics were added to their articles. I'm very happy to finally see pics of such major drivers! I wonder who the woman is in Lazzaro's picture?? I also got pics of a few drivers who don't have articles (Nick Mancuso, Jack Roush, Jr., and Mike Skeen) which I'm happy to upload to Commons if someone wants to make up an article. I added Roush's photo to the Roush Performance Racing article. They all are post them on my flickr stream. I couldn't identify several people that I think were drivers and I ask for help to identify them: 1 and 2.  Royal broil  18:47, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * #2 is Lawson Aschenbach, not sure about #1. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 20:18, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Aschenbach makes sense since he was starting toward the front of the grid.  Royal broil  05:16, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Sometimes it pays to procrastinate: I just got around to watching the Detroit race, and who happened to have a wreck and get some camera time? None other than Mystery Driver #1: Craig Capaldi. The Lewis Hamilton-esque bling gave him away... Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 02:47, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Request to get Ferrari 250 GTO to get into WP:ITN (cleanup also required)
Because the Ferrari 250 GTO broke the world auction record last night, as I feel this deserves to be as it is one of the most desirable cars of them all, I am trying to get this into WP:ITN/C but it appears that this article is in real need of improvement. My reasons for nomination is considering WP:ITN in the past had photographs, sculptures and even a manuscript for Bob Dylan's lyrics, so my argument is if these are considered to be art, why can't cars be. I will be very grateful for any cooperation. Link for ITN nomination. Donnie Park (talk) 17:00, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposed change to wiki markup for motorsport results tables
Hi WikiProject Sports Car Racing. The wiki markup used to produce the background colour in most motorsport results tables (bgcolor="#XXXXXX") is no longer valid HTML and as a result doesn't work properly on mobile devices (no background colour is displayed). There is a proposal at WikiProject Formula One to get a bot to update the markup for all the articles within that WikiProject's scope. I'm letting this project know (a) so that you won't be surprised/confused if you suddenly see lots of articles being updated and are wondering why and (b) just in case you know of a reason why this would be a bad idea. The discussion is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 10:21, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:48, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Ford GT40
The Ford GT40 did not win the Lemans...from 1966 to 1969 (1966 being the Mk II, 1967 the Mk IV, and 1968-1969) It was won by a Mirage Ford.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.134.171.74 (talk) 18:47, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The Mirage M1, based on the GT40, never won Le Mans. Ford GT40s won in all four years.  The359  ( Talk ) 19:59, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Where does it say a Mirage won in the 1960s? --Falcadore (talk) 11:01, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Is that because John Wyer built the racing versions? Wyer built them for Ford, and Ford paid for them. How does that make them Mirages? --Pc13 (talk) 18:21, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
 * As far as I understand it, JWA built the chassis of the 1968 and 1969 winner basically as a 4.7 litre GT40 and converted it into a Mirage M1, mostly through the addition of sleeker bodywork, but with some adjustments to braking systems and with a 5.7 litre long-stroke engine. At the end of 1967, as the M2 Mirage wasn't ready and the big banger cars had been outlawed, JWA reconverted it back to GT40 specification bodywork (with fatter arches) and refitted a 4.7 litre engine (stretched to 5.0 litres), but keeping much of the other improvements they had made. Chassis 1075 (which was a GT40, for all that) then famously won Le Mans two years on the trot. The extensive Motor Sport Archive has some material covering much of this sequence in American Evolution (2010) by Gordon Cruickshank, and Mirage Racing (1968) by Jenks, and there is probably a lot more but their awkward search engine and imperfect OCR renderings mean I couldn't find it in a hurry. Interestingly, with respect to the OP's initial comment, GC notes in his article that 1968 was the first win for a GT40!  Pyrop e  20:33, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!


Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Mercedes-Benz CLR peer review
A peer review of Mercedes-Benz CLR is under way. The article is currently at Good Article status and I am trying to get it to Featured Article status. Any helpful comments are more than welcomed. The359 ( Talk ) 07:42, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Most wanted articles on races
From WP:WANTED, here are the red links for articles on racing events (so far as I can tell) that have the most incoming links: Cheers! bd2412 T 21:43, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Kragen 151 - 52
 * Lowe's 250 - 50
 * Jerr Dan/Nelson 150 - 48
 * Lowe's 150 - 48
 * Stevens Beil/Genuine Car Parts 150 - 48
 * Kragen/Exide 151 - 59
 * Bully Hill Vineyards 150 - 55
 * Busch 200 (South Boston) - 49
 * DeVilbiss Superfinish 200 - 49
 * Busch 200 (South Boston) - 49
 * DeVilbiss Superfinish 200 - 49
 * Jerr-Dan/Nelson Truck 200 - 49
 * Maxx Race Cards 200 - 48
 * Western Auto/Parts America 200 - 46
 * Granger Select 200 (Dublin) - 45
 * Roses Stores 200 (South Boston) - 45
 * Chevy Silverado 200 - 44
 * Yellow Freight 200 - 41
 * O'Reilly Auto Parts 200 (I-70) - 40
 * Stevens Beil/Genuine Car Parts 200 - 40
 * Tempus Resorts 300K - 40
 * Busch 200 (Langley) - 39
 * Hampton 200 - 38
 * Firecracker 200 - 37
 * Texas Pete 200 - 36
 * Roses Stores 200 (Rougemont) - 34
 * Grainger Industrial Supply 225K - 36
 * Line-X 225 - 34
 * Texas Pete 300 - 34
 * NAPA 300K - 38
 * Roses Stores 300 - 37


 * I am 99% certain all of these are sprint car racing or NASCAR races, none of which have to do with sports car racing. The359  ( Talk ) 04:52, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Equipe Matra Sports
I notice that the description of Matra's motorsport activities have been moved out of the Matra article into a new article: Equipe Matra Sports. If there are no objections, then some time in the next few days I'll change all the sportscar racing-related references to Matra which currently link to Matra to link to the new article instead. DH85868993 (talk) 00:28, 30 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Seems fine to me. It separates the road cars and other business from the race cars. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 03:12, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this makes sense, the motorsport section of Matra never seemed adequate as it was. The359  ( Talk ) 04:18, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
 * OK. I think I've got most of them. Feel free to fix any I've missed. DH85868993 (talk) 11:10, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Renaming discussion - TUSC
I have started a discussion at Talk:United SportsCar Championship regarding the renaming of the series and how to handle the appropriate 2016 article, currently titled 2016 IMSA SportsCar Championship season. Input is welcome. The359 ( Talk ) 18:44, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Jac Nelleman
FYI, I've started a discussion about the correct spelling of this driver's surname at Talk:Jac Nelleman. DH85868993 (talk) 08:16, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

AfC submission
See Draft:Lola LC87. Best, FoCuS contribs ;  talk to me!  19:30, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Lola LC87 is not a sports car. The article would hopefully have made that clear. --Falcadore (talk) 00:25, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Not a car, huh? Have a look at Draft:Williams FW as well. Cheers, FoCuS contribs ;  talk to me!  01:21, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Not a Sports Car. Yes a car, but definately not a sports car.
 * Likewise Williams Formula One cars are also very definately not Sports Cars. You need to take these to the Formula One wikiproject. --Falcadore (talk) 01:53, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Season in progress footnotes
I have proposed a change to the wording of the "Season in progress" footnotes which accompany motorsport results tables for which the season is still in progress. Interested editors are invited to comment at the centralised discussion. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 21:55, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Dilantha Malagamuwa
I fairly certain that Dilantha Malagamuwa fails to satisfy WP:NMOTORSPORT but don't know whether the Formula Nippon (F3000) is considered a fully professional series or not. Was hoping that an editor here could help me out and confirm whether he satisfies the criteria before I lodge an AfD. Dan arndt (talk) 11:10, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Not sports car related, but I can tell you that Super Formula/Formula Nippon/Japanese Formula 3000 is the top open-wheel series in Japan, so I would say he satisfies notability in that regard. He also has a championship in the GT Asia Series so I think that helps as well.  The359  ( Talk ) 15:15, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

DYK nomination for Ferrari 330 TRI/LM article
Can I get any second opinion regarding my hook for the Ferrari 330 TRI/LM article as a reviewer does not think it is particularly "hook worthy" and "most cars get driven around after their first owner sells it after all" especially if that's a Le Mans winner and the last front engined car to do so.

Let's have your opinion on Template:Did you know nominations/Ferrari 330 TRI/LM, thanks. Donnie Park (talk) 20:00, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Notable?
I just declined a speedy on Paul Miller Racing since it looks like they might be notable, however the article needs a lot of work and I'm not really familiar enough with this stuff to know what to look for. Anyone interested? Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  10:03, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I've improved the article since the minimal version which I'd speedy-nominated, but it now needs improving by someone who actually knows and cares about autoracing.  Pam  D  12:59, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * There's also the question whether Paul Miller (racing driver) (several incoming links) should include info on the racing team, as in German Wikipedia, or the team article include info on him, or whether we need two articles. The Germans also have an article about Peter's brother Kenper Miller (several incoming links), but they don't have one about P's son Bryce Miller, which we do have. Over to you. Pam  D  13:08, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I think both the driver and the team have had enough of a racing history to need an article but they are from two totally different eras, so combining them into a single article would likely be disjointed. The359  ( Talk ) 16:18, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Template proposed for merging
It has been proposed that Infobox Sports Car Championship be merged into Infobox motorsport championship. Interested editors are invited to express their opinions at the merge discussion. DH85868993 (talk) 20:56, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Strikethrough
I can't understand how "strikethrough" works on the tasks of the To-Do List. Please help me! MC12GT1 (talk) 20:05, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

RFC on sports notability
An RFC has recently been started regarding a potential change to the notability guidelines for sportspeople. Please join in the conversation. Thank you. Primefac (talk) 23:09, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Deletion of Jaguar XJR sportscars
Another one from, a PROD without any attempt at BEFORE and then an immediate AfD when opposed. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes, another one. This article has for ten years been tagged for references.  It is original research, and good research at that.  However, none of it is verifiable.  So I looked for independent reliable sources on these Jaguar racing cars.  I found none.  Perhaps I am not the best researcher on British motor racing.  I do know I can read a ten-year tag. It strikes me that a tag should be removed after the issue is resolved. An interested editor had a week to find a reference if she didn't want to see the article go. If an editor put independent reliable references to the article, then she is absolutely right to remove the tag.  To remove a tag in the expectation that someone else will improve the article ... well that's what got us into this pickle.  Five percent of articles are unreliable. Two hundred thousand articles in English have no references.  I'm not saying original research is fiction, but a reader cannot count on it.  There are some WP communities who believe that they are exempt from WP:V.  The train buffs who believe every whistle stop deserves an article, references be damned. The cricket fans who believe a single appearance on a first-class pitch deserves an article, even if the scorekeeper couldn't be bothered to write down the player's name.  The argument that there's a reference out there somewhere, no one has seen it yet wears thin after a decade. I do my fair share of fixing articles and writing well-referenced ones.  Please don't paint me as travelling troublemaker. Rhadow (talk) 17:06, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * " I looked for independent reliable sources on these Jaguar racing cars. I found none. "
 * Then you hadn't even looked at the articles on this list, and that's a fail of WP:COMPETENCE. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:14, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Here is what I did find when I looked at Jaguar XJR sportscars. Four of seven wikilinks redirected back to the same article. Jaguar XJR-9 has two external links and no inline citations. Jaguar XJR-12 has no references. Jaguar XJR-14 has one reference, about a driver. It appears the other articles are not much better.  Please, keep the discussion to the article, not my qualifications. Rhadow (talk) 17:32, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
A move discussion which may be of interest to participants of this WikiProject is currently taking place at Talk:Corvette (disambiguation). Dohn joe (talk) 18:14, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:List of female racing drivers
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:List of female racing drivers. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:57, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Gulf 12 Hours nominated for speedy deletion
FYI, Gulf 12 Hours has been nominated for speedy deletion under CSD:A7 (No indication of importance). I don't know enough about the event to know how notable it is, so I thought I'd mention it here. DH85868993 (talk) 05:27, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
 * That should have been neither tagged nor deleted. I don't know who tagged it or what state it was in, as it's gone now, but the deleting admin has a long history of very poor judgement for such. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:34, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It was a one sentence article that could easily be redone: "The Gulf 12 Hours is an endurance event for both sports cars and prototypes, organized since 2012 at the Yas Marina Circuit in the emirate of Abu Dhabi. The event consists of two six-hour races." I wouldn't have deleted it. In the past, I have have done a little research before speedy deleting an article on a potentially notable topic.  Royal broil  09:32, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Inclusion of racing cars in Template:Lotus
I've started a discussion regarding the continued inclusion of racing cars in Template:Lotus. Interested editors are welcome to contribute to the discussion. (I've advertised the discussion here because I wasn't sure how may people are watching the template). DH85868993 (talk) 21:02, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Continuity of Races
There's a LOT of issues with continuity of particular races on sports car races on Wikipedia (ie which races to consider part of a races's history). Often there is little if any citations for these. Two I would like to point out are Los Angeles Times Grand Prix and 1000 km Monza.

For LA Times GP, I think it's quite reasonable to have what's there for 1958-1973, but the rest is highly suspect, and is in need of some citation. The 1963, 64 and 65 races were refered to as 6th, 7th and 8th LA Times Grand Prix... respectively, so I don't see how one could argue the 1957 race was part of the history. There were many other sportscar races held at Riverside from the late 50s to the early 70s, but it's quite clear that we want the October/early November race. This brings up other issues, however. Like many of the CanAm races, once that series ended, the race really became a F5000 race (see 1974 SCCA/USAC Formula 5000 Championship), as the date and length were the same, just a minor name change. This October race, often called the Riverside Grand Prix, would be part of the revived Can Am series from 1977, until 1983 and 1984 which the main "Grand Prix" was a Trans Am race. The article lists the 1975 6 Hour Race as an LA Times GP which I find dubious, and then finally there's the "revived" LA Times GP as an IMSA GT race from 1979-1987, held in April. I'm not sure what the page is meant to be, and I wonder if there's any actual sources for this, but to me it seems like quite a stretch to say there's any continuity at all between the October race, which as I said actually kept going as F5000, Can Am and Trans Am, and the later IMSA GT race held in April, and as for the 1975 6 Hour race, well there's plenty of Sportscar and similar races held at Riverside which AREN'T on the page, so why does this one get a pass? I think either 2 separate articles are needed here, or maybe just split the results table into two tables, one for each?

For the 1000km Monza, I think there's quite a bit of dubious continuity here as well. The article talks first about the Coppa Intereuropa (with no mention of multiple races being held in most years for different classes), and not always picking the largest engine capacity race to give results for (for example 1964 when the race for under 2L cars was the one to count to the World Sportscar Championship). For 1965, a single Coppa Intereuropa was held on the same day as the 1000km Monza (which I see no evidence to suggest was considered to be a Coppa Intereuropa). From 1966 the race was apparently known also as the "Trofeo Filippo Caracciolo". The Coppa Europa returned for 1970-71 (at least according to Racing Sportscars ), which of course causes a problem if suggesting that the 1000km race came from it! For 1976, 78, 79, 90, 91, 92 the Trofeo Filippo Caracciolo is included in the results table although not held over 1000km those years. It is after this we get some more questionable inclusions: what evidence is there to suggest that 1995, 1996, 1999, 2000 or 2003 would be considered part of the same history? For 1999 and 2000, there were 500km FIA GT races on the same day as the SportsRacing World Cup races. 500km FIA GT races were also held in 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2005 (and 2 hour races 2007-8). After 2008, no more "1000 km" races have been held, however, in addition to the two ELMS races on the list, there were two 4 Hour races as part of the "Endurance Champions Cup", and a 3 hour race as part of the Blancpain Endurance Series each year since 2011. I'm not sure how this could be best handled, but perhaps keep the Coppa Intereuropa races in a separate table (and include all races from each year), and them only include non-1000km (after 1992) races which can clearly be linked to the Monza 1000km by a source, rather than guessing. A7V2 (talk) 00:29, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

1906 and 1911 Targa Florio winning times
I've started a section in Talk:Targa Florio regarding the winning times for the 1906 and 1911 Targa Florio races (which appear to be suspiciously close if not equal) and would appreciate any help you could offer, thanks. A7V2 (talk) 00:00, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Added my notes to the talk section with details from Pino Fondi's "Targa Florio 20th Century Epic" - which has the byline "Official Centenary Book". By a weird coincidence they do, in fact, appear to be genuine. Identical times down to the second! Philby NZ (talk)

RfC which impacts this WikiProject's articles
An RfC has started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport which has wide implications for this WikiProject. Interested editors are welcome to contribute to the discssion. SSSB (talk) 14:41, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Will Stevens/2019 24 Hours of Le Mans
2019 24 Hours of Le Mans shows Will Stevens as finishing 13th overall (8th in the LMP2 class), but the corresponding cells are empty in 2018–19_FIA_World_Endurance_Championship and Will_Stevens. Is there some reason for that? Or is it an error/omission/oversight? Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 08:48, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
 * He drove Le Mans for a team not entered in the WEC meaning he was ineligible for points. The359  ( Talk ) 12:46, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I thought it might have been something like that. Thanks for the confirmation. DH85868993 (talk) 20:16, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Arbitration/Requests/Case/Motorsports opened
The Arbitration Committee has accepted arequest for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Motorsports regarding two users contributing to this project. If anyone wishes to add evidence for arbitrators to consider, you can add it to the evidence subpage, at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Motorsports/Evidence. Please add your evidence by March 13, 2020, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Arbitration/Requests/Case/Motorsports/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.Tvx1 23:10, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Renamed categories
Discussion moved to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Motorsport. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DH85868993 (talk • contribs) 02:34, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

BoP article
I've made an article on Balance of performance (being reviewed now; it's an AFC draft) that might be on interest to this WikiProject. FMecha (to talk|to see log) 16:05, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Roman Staněk
Hi can I ask for some help please with Roman Staněk? The article has been sitting for months unreviewed in the New Pages Feed. The sourcing is not sufficient and I don’t really know enough about racing to know whether the subject is notable or not. If editors on this WikiProject think he’s notable could you add some more sources please? If you think he isn’t I’ll take it to AfD. Many thanks. Mccapra (talk) 05:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Template:Infobox racing driver has an RFC
Template:Infobox racing driver has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Dennis Bratland (talk) 18:24, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

2022 GT4 European Series
I've created this with the majority of entries that are citeable. (Some of them are lacking secondary sources but the GT4 website is clear and citing primary sources is OK for basic fact-check, AIUI.)

Can someone give it a peer review please and publish - the formal entry list will most likely be out later this month. Draft:2022 GT4 European Series

I copied the 2021 page layout and tidied it up a bit on the way.

Two questions arising: 1. Across sportscar some of the results tables etc are in subtly different formats. Is there one template somewhere we should all be using? 2. I had to go and look for the three-letter codes for circuits by flicking through articles. Is there a proper list of these somewhere and where did they come from? Zaack23 (talk) 21:16, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like and turns it into something like
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from cite web, cite journal and doi.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

FAR for Maserati MC12
I have nominated Maserati MC12 for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm Talk 00:16, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Major discrepancies in 1962-65 World Sportscar Championship articles
I had sort of noticed this in the past but forgot about it, but was reminded of it by a recent talkpage addition on Talk:1964 World Sportscar Championship. It seems Wikipedia (and presumably the primary source for these articles, Time in Two Seats which I don't own or have access to myself) disagrees with many other sources. Furthermore the articles for these years seem to place substantially undue weight on were in many cases very minor races competing for titles that virtually no reliable sources seemed to cover. Since it affects a few articles quite substantially, and since I don't have access to that source I think it requires discussion to see what if anything should be done about this. It is also important to note that after 1961, the original "World Sports Car Championship" ceased to exist.

On to the discrepancies: I have checked our articles against "WSRP" which generally agrees with wikipedia but I am suspicious of its reliability, the Motorsport Magazine database (hereafter MSM), Peter Higham's Guinness Guide to International Motor Racing (1995) (which I'll call GG), Quentin Spurring's Le Mans 1960-69 (2010) (which I'll call QSLM) and the John Player Motor Sport Yearbook 1972 (which is the closest to a contemporary source discussing the championships, as opposed to the races, at that time that I could find, and I will call JP). Note in every instance I'm talking about the top prototype class as other sources (apart from WSRP and Wikipedia) rarely if ever seem to mention the other class championships existing apart from broadly mentioning things like "the FIA's GT championship".

For 1962, Wikipedia and WSRP describes a 3 round "Coupe des Sports" (Sebring, Targa, Nurburgring) with Ferrari winning with 27 pts. MSM, GG and QSLM all describe a 4 round "Speed World Challenge" (adding Le Mans), while JP says there were just four "classic races" with no official championship. MSM never lists a winner, GG gives Ferrari with 27 pts, GSLW Ferrari with 36 pts.

For 1963, Wikipedia describes a 4 round "International Trophy for GT Prototypes" (Sebring, Targa, Nurburgring, Le Mans) with Ferrari winning with 27 pts, while WSRP has seemingly just a two round "International Prototype Trophy" (Sebring, Le Mans) and Ferrari winning with 54 pts. MSM, GG and QSLM have a 4 round "Speed and Endurance World Challenge", GG and QSLM have Ferrari winning with 39 pts. JP again just says there were four classic races but no official championship.

For 1964, Wikipedia again has a 4 round "International Prototype Trophy", which WSRP has the same but called "International Trophy for G.T. Prototype Cars" (Sebring, Targa, Nurburgring, Le Mans), with Porsche winning with 34.8 pts. MSM, GG, QSLM and JP all list a 9-race championship (Daytona, Sebring, Targa, Spa, Nurburgring, Le Mans, Reims, Tourist Trophy, Paris) which MSM and GG name "International Championship of/for Makes", GSLM calls it the "FIA World Sportscar Championship", JP doesn't bother with a name. GG says Ferrari won with 54 pts taking best 6 results, but 74 pts scored total; QSLM gives Ferrari with 54 pts, and JP gives Ferrari with 79 pts.

For 1965, both Wikipedia and WSRP call it the "International Trophy for GT Prototypes" and give Ferrari winning with 58.5 pts but Wikipedia is unclear which races counted, possibly including a total of 10 (Daytona, Sebring, Monza, Tourist Trophy, Targa Florio, Spa, Nurburgring, Le Mans, Reims, Bridgehampton). WSRP only has 6, (Sebring, Monza, Targa, Nurburgring, Le Mans, Bridgehampton). MSM, GG, QSLM and JP all list a 9 race championship (same for Wikipedia but missing Bridgehampton), same names as 1964, Ferrari winning with 54/66 pts GG (best 6 results gives 54 pts), 54 pts for QSLM and 62 pts for JP.

For 1966 the discrepancy appears greatly reduced, with Wikipedia and WSRP using the much more similar name "International Manufacturers Championship", and the sources only otherwise disagreeing on the points scored. I haven't looked any further than this.

I realise this is a lot of information, but then this is a fairly major discrepancy! A7V2 (talk) 10:57, 15 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi there, yes a valid point here. It was that strange period where the FIA shifted emphasis from Sports Cars/Prototypes to GTs, after the GT Cup was inaugurated in 1960, taking over in 1962. This is where the ACO started going their own way from the FIA, keeping their Prototype/Experimental class - that kept the public's attention. And in 1966, the FIA finally recognised the error of their ways and morphed the ACO prototypes into the epic Group 6 class capturing the Ford vs Ferrari 'war'. History, of course, would repeat itself every decade or so going forward, as the FIA insisted on tinkering with a successful formula.
 * I don't have "Time in Two Seats" either, but I do have a comprehensive collection of perhaps the best contemporary sources - "Automobile Year". During this period, I believe the only official FIA Championship was the GT Championship. However, there were unofficial non-FIA-sanctioned series, like the Challenge Mondiale for the 4 endurance rounds at Sebring, Targa Florio, Nurburgring and Le Mans. Much as the unofficial InterContinental Le Mans Cup at the start of the 2010s became the World Endurance Championship of today.
 * Meanwhile, there were a raft of races in the official GT Championship - including Hill-Climb events and some restricted up to 1-litre engines. And on top of that there was a diabolical graded point-scoring system depending on the race type, engine, duration etc etc - an absolute mess trying to please everyone and no-one. I guess, for Wikipedia there needs to be a differentiation on what were the offiical FIA Championships and the strongly supported, but unofficial, championships. Whether that is separate pages or a paragraph of explanation on the one page. It may warrant a new page called something like "1962 Sports Car racing season" as an overall catch-all of the assorted competititons of the year. Much like the pre-war Grand-Prix seasons are done, that I have been working through. Might be something I look at in the future to set out better. Philby NZ (talk) 01:51, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I have two main concerns here. One is whether we are covering the right things in our articles. It is definitely true that the FIA (or is that CSI?) changed the focus at the end of 1961 towards GT cars. But how important was this new championship(s)? If the current emphasis is kept what hope is there of an article like 1963 World Sportscar Championship being ever more than just a database of results? But more importantly, what should we consider to be the World Sportscar Championship? As I outlined above, several reliable sources definitely consider the unofficial prototype championships of 1962 and 1963, then the "International Championship of/for Makes" from 1964 onwards to be "the" World Sportscar Championship. And then why is there seemingly two championships for the same kinds of cars in parallel until 1966? While a bit vague, the Guinness Guide to International Motor Racing says "However, as the governing body turned their attention to Grand Touring cars, the organisers of the Sebring 12 Hours (etc) joined forces to promote the Speed World Challenge for Sports Cars and Prototypes. It proved a success and was adopted by the FIA in 1963 and developed into a full World Championship for Makes." - to me it's not clear if this is suggesting it was adopted for 1963 or 1964, or when it became a World Championship (noting that it is not described as a World Championship in the book. And then why, once the "International Championship of/for Makes" did the FIA continue to award a separate prototype championship, and which should be considered the "World Sportscar Championship" (which was the question the IP editor was asking at Talk:1964 World Sportscar Championship since Ferrari won according to most sources but that's not what we have.
 * To the question/suggestion of having articles such as 19xx Sports Car Racing season, I would strongly support this. I have considered in the past as well that especially for the years 1953-1961 there were major races not part of the championship which could be included (similar to Formula One season articles), and even from 1948 or 1949 articles could be written about Sports Car racing seasons (and perhaps pre-War years too). A7V2 (talk) 23:56, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
 * That sounds like an interesting exercise of research - but maybe not something I could get into for a year, as I wrap up other areas of wiki-writing. I would note that what I have done in the pre-war grand-prix seasons is that I have grouped the races in the European Championship in a separate table to the other major races. The season review has then focused on those races, but also made more than passing mention of other significant races. Is this a potential avenue to follow? Do this forum cover just sports-car racing or could it extend to cover everything in multi-seat, closed-wheel racing (where it overlaps), as distinct from the open-wheel race formulae? What was know as Group 4/5/6, or Group B/C of the 80s? I am thinking of the great sports-car races - Le Mans, Monza, Mille Miglia, Sebring etc and the classes they included at given times.
 * I am also thinking of how we write up seasons like the barren years that was international sports-car racing between 1992 and 2012 - with just the regional competitions (again as GT racing came to the fore). I think there should be some page for each year, connecting the threads from across the world to show there was some continuity and evolution that led to the 2012 re-establishment and rebirth. perhaps concentrating on the cars and/or drivers more than the races or series. But now I'm meandering off-topic Philby NZ (talk) 02:48, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:6 Hours of Nürburgring
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:6 Hours of Nürburgring that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 13:56, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Dave MacDonald Article
I have edited the article on Dave MacDonald, adding it to this WikiProject. I am leaving it up to project members to assess and clean up. RegalZ8790 (talk) 01:35, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

B-checklist in project template
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council § Determining the future of B-class checklists. &#x0020;This project is being notified since it is one of the 82 WikiProjects that opted-in to support B-checklists (B1-B6) in your project banner. DFlhb (talk) 11:54, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Change the name of the "LM GTE" and "SRO GT4" articles to reflect the naming structure of Sportscar Racing
Hello fellow users,

I have been adding as much information as I can to modern Sportscar racing (1994-Present Day) articles here on Wikipedia, I am particularly proud of the additions I made to the LM GTE article, adding a lot of pictures and information to the homologated cars table and contributing with information.

I'd like to suggest that we change the naming of the "LM GTE" and "SRO GT4" articles, to "Group GT2" and "Group GT4" respectively as that would make much more sense considering the naming scheme of the "Group GT1" and "Group GT3" articles.

I have tried to performing the moves but I was unable to, I'm unsure on what's going wrong, so I ask for your help

Cheers! Juim1j (talk) 20:50, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * This is not a convention of sports car racing, they are named by their respective ruling bodies and organizers. Group GT4 does not exist, and the ACO owns the rights to LM GTE and never used the name Group GT2.  Please add sourced information and sources that are correct instead of conjecture.  The359  ( Talk ) 22:10, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd take this further and state that "Group GT2", formerly "Group N-GT" was an FIA category. ACO "LM"GT2, formerly "LM"GT, is a similar category that shared many cars with the FIA category but is not the same regulations.  ACO "LM"GT2 evolved into a new set of regulations with "LM"GTE, again it shared many cars but is not the same ruleset.  The359  ( Talk ) 22:27, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I see. Given your information, may I suggest, as in line with the "SRO GT4" and "SRO GT2" articles, the "LM GTE" article be moved to "ACO GTE" ? This would make sense given the name of the of the SRO class articles and to be honest it just seems to make more sense for it to have that name. Juim1j (talk) 23:47, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * "SRO GT4" is not an official name, someone chose to do that for whatever reason. However "LM GTE" is the official name for the category and changing it to ACO GTE would be a disservice to the article's intent.  We don't need the name of the organizer in the article title (as in all the "Group ..." names used by the FIA), but also with such examples as Super 2000, Formula 3, and LMDh.  The359  ( Talk ) 18:56, 12 January 2024 (UTC)