Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Square Enix/archive/6

October 2009 Roll Call

 * Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:55, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Mistermom7 (talk) 20:04, 24 October 2009 (UTC) I just joined this project.

Music of the Mana series GAN
Music of the Mana series is now at GAN. The backlog is 2 months long in the music section, and 1 month long above Music of the SaGa series. -- Pres N  21:28, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Characters of Final Fantasy XII
Characters of Final Fantasy XII has five days (until 9/17) to get back to GA or FL, or the Final Fantasy XII topic will be eligible to be removed. An FL would make the topic a Featured topic, while GA would leave it as a GTopic. The article was delisted in its review due to an lack of citations, and was summarily placed as list-class due to its structure. -- Pres N  17:30, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The FF12 topic is now up for removal. We have ~2 weeks to get the article back up to GAN at least. -- Pres  N  17:41, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm starting to work on this article in a last-ditch effort to get it back to GA. I would really appreciate any help that people could give me, as character articles aren't really my forte. -- Pres N  16:33, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Those infoboxes are really ugly; I suggest merging any relevant info, such as voice actors, into the the prose, and then remove the infoboxes. The Prince (talk) 17:16, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I'm also going to completely remove the "minor characters" section; none of the characters are supporting more than 2 or 3 sentences, and there's no references or information on them anywhere besides a quote or two in the game.  -- Pres  N  16:24, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Since the Revenant Wings characters were removed, shouldn't "In Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings, there are four additional main playable characters; Kytes and Filo, two orphans from Rabanastre; Llyud, a resident of Lemures, and Ba'Gamnan, a sinister bounty hunter who has a grudge against Vaan and gang for meddling in his affairs. The characters for Revenant Wings' were designed by Ryoma Itō." from the lead be scrapped? The Prince (talk) 23:09, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but I generally write the lead last, so I haven't done it yet. -- Pres N  23:14, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I also do that. Great work so far, BTW. I'll see if I can get some work done on the article after you've finished editing it to avoid edit conflicts. I'm actually glad the RW characters were removed, since I haven't played Revenant Wings :P The Prince (talk) 23:19, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Go ahead, I'm done for today. That's part of the problem, I think- no one's played Revenant Wings, so there's no sources out there. :) -- Pres  N  23:39, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I've copy-edited the Cast creation and influences and Cultural impact sections, but am planning on doing the rest as well. Anyway, I thought about maybe placing the group image in the lead instead, like in Characters of Kingdom Hearts and Organization XIII, as I feel that it makes more sense having it there. Thoghts? The Prince (talk) 12:34, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * That looks good in the two examples, why not. I'll move it up tomorrow if you don't do it first. -- Pres  N  04:09, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Although, where would the characters template go then? -- Pres N  14:23, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess it could go next to the ToC, though I've never really seen the necessity of having the template at all. The Prince (talk) 17:21, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, I think it's ready to be GAN'd, let me know/edit it if you have any more concerns with the article. -- Pres N  18:55, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The only outstanding issue is the lead as I mentioned further up. It could also use a summarised paragraph of Cultural impact. Other than that it looks really good. Great work. The Prince (talk) 19:06, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoops, forgot the lead. Thank you! -- Pres  N  19:52, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Is there any way to get a higher quality version of the Ocurria image. It's kinda grainy. The Prince (talk) 20:18, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Might be stretching WP:FAIRUSE if its much better. 陣 内 Jinnai 20:28, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, Jinnai, I'm not following. Could you please clarify that? The Prince (talk) 20:32, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how big/clear the original one was, but if it could be good enough to be reprinted and sold as forged copies it almost certainly violates fair use policy. 陣 内 Jinnai 22:34, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Chars of FF12 was re-GA'd in time, and the FTR has now officially closed. -- Pres N  17:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Review archive notification
Thought I'd direct attention to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games, because of the Square Enix game reviews I've turned up. These include five reviews for Final Fantasy VII, such as those of Next Generation Magazine and Electronic Gaming Monthly. I've yet to archive reviews I've seen for Final Fantasy VIII and IX, among other games, so keep an eye out for updates. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 09:00, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance's GAR
My again. Just wanna let everyone know about this. GamerPro64 (talk) 23:15, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've got it, there's not too much that he's complaining about. Only problem left is some uncited stuff; a strategy guide would work for most of it so I'll cite it either to the book if I can get some scans or to the IGN strategy guide. If anyone here happens to have the book (or some free time) feel free to cite things yourself. The article could also frankly use some cleaning up as well- there's a lot of two-sentence paragraphs running around- so if anyone wants to do that I'd appreciate it. -- Pres N  16:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Saved. -- Pres N  04:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

GAN help
Alright, I hate to do this, but I have 5 articles at GAN right now with the oldest having been there for 2 months, and three of them are from this project. If anyone has the time, could they please review either Music of the SaGa series, Music of the Mana series, or Characters of Final Fantasy XII? Thanks a bunch, I'll owe one review back to anyone who does one. -- Pres N  19:53, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Characters of Final Fantasy XII done and passed with flying colors, I'll look at Music of the Mana series later on, just got home from work and I need to rest up a bit.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 21:14, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Awesome, thank you! That was a nice surprise upon coming home. Means that the FF12 topic is saved as well. -- Pres N  22:06, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Music of the Mana series is done, passed with flying colors too. I can't do the SaGa article though, since I apparently contributed a small bit to it with my own research for FFL, but two out of three ain't bad.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:35, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! Just hit me up whenever you need a review of something, I owe you two! -- Pres N  23:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha, I've actually got about 3 up at the moment that could use a gander (Li Long, Ivy, and Dance, Voldo, Dance). GAN's apparently grinded to a halt for the time being...--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, I reviewed your two oldest, Li Long and Dance, Voldo, Dance. They both passed; Li Long had some grammar problems that I took care of (D,V,D was almost too short to have problems). I stuck DVD under films in WP:GA. Thanks again! -- Pres N  01:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

ff7
its the odd one out, no star on the page... little help ;)   chocobogamer      mine   08:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Yoko Shimomura and Hitoshi Sakimoto GANs
I've come back from doing music articles on non-SE games, and have nominated Yoko Shimomura, composer for the Kingdom Hearts series, for GAN. The Prince inspired me to clean up some of those composer bios. -- Pres N  20:41, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice work! I liked what you did with the references; it makes it a lot easier to edit the article. BTW, do you read Japanese, because I saw a lot of information comes from her personal website which is in Japanese. I have been wanting to start work on Tsukasa Tawada and use information from his personal website (bottom of the page), but I couldn't make any sense of it; I used BabelFish or something to do a rough translation, but all it produced was gibberish. Any help would be great. The Prince (talk) 13:15, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Not a word, unfortunately, I just throw it through translate.google.com. That's usually good enough for me to get the gist of what they're saying. That one does seem a bit muddled, though; for Shimomura I was able to correlate some of it with a bio elsewhere. -- Pres N  16:55, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Second verse, same as the first- Hitoshi Sakimoto, in addition to composing for more than 70 games and arranging for more than 40 others, is now at GAN. -- Pres N  17:22, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Yoko passed. -- Pres N  04:55, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Hitoshi passed. -- Pres N  14:55, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Final Fantasy VI FAR
nominated Final Fantasy VI for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. The Prince (talk) 21:22, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 5/14 issues raised have now been fixed (the easiest five, of course). Helping out with the FAR would be much appreciated; if each person found one source or cleaned up one paragraph, the thing would be done in a week. Come on by and help! -- Pres N  23:23, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 8/14 done, moved to FARC. It just needs some citations, replacing a few sources, and a new lead. -- Pres N  15:46, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

All of the stated issues have been fixed; please come on over and vote! -- Pres N  17:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * FF6 has kept its FA status. Good job to the people how helped. GamerPro64 (talk) 04:28, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Vivi Orunitia
Mission accomplished for "first FFIX character article brought back"? I just wanted to get some peoples' opinions on how it's coming along - it's my first real effort at improving an FF article, methinks. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 08:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems like a pretty solid start! I'd maybe merge the Characteristics section into the concept section above since it's so short, but its up to you and how long it ends up being. -- Pres N  17:44, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope I'm not going overboard, but I've also made Zidane Tribal and Yuna. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 07:18, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's fine, as long as we don't just leave them as branched off stub articles, if we can get Yuna back to GA, and Zidane to GA for the first time, it's an awesome idea! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 00:57, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Kefka Palazzo's still looming too, though its biggest holdup is lack of structure and any development information (it doesn't seem like anything exists).--Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:11, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd love to try to help, but one thing I love is to build an article from the ground up - gets me motivated, you know? But yeah, any attempt I've made to find anything on Kefka is already found or simply not there. 'Tis sad. Perhaps someday they'll mention Kefka in an interview about Dissidia. But overall, it's still a quality article.
 * ...And I wrote Vaan. >_> - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 05:11, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ugh... Obligatory notice- Vaan needs to be GA'd and in the FF12 topic by December 17. Looks honestly mostly there, but I'm very tired of fixing FF12 articles for that topic, so please don't make me do it come December. Good job on the article though! -- Pres N  16:05, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh... funny thing, that's one thing I thought of when I made the article! If my Balthier article works, I hope that can be improved as well. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 16:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You also wrote Lulu. -- Pres N  16:30, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * And I'm working on Seifer. :B I wonder when the buzz will die down. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 16:59, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Just be careful that the sourcing will survive a FAC (not that many will see that in a good while, but it's best to do that rather than find out they hate many. I never understand why reception of all things requires absolute reliability in the author's statements...--Kung Fu Man (talk) 01:24, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Balthier now exists... He and Vaan may not have to be added to the FF12 topic, if we consider them to be part of a "Characters of FF12" topic. -- Pres N  23:54, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Curses - my plot is now foiled. *goes to work on Rikku article [which I think is probably the most likely candidate for an article now].* - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 05:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm just going to emphasize again that we really need to be careful with the sourcing Game Over for example is unreliable as heck, and probably not much better than citing a random blog, and Thunderbolt got shot down elsewhere as also being unreliable. If some proof of editorial process can be established like with RPGFan I really don't have a problem with the sourcing, but others don't and if these go to GAN against a more narrow minded editor, they'll get torched down without care.

I'm happy as a lark to have these articles back, really. But if we can't get them to at least GA without removing a lot of the references that give them notability...we might as well not have them back out.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 14:37, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, you gotta remember that I'm pretty fast and dirty. Admittedly, I do not have great writing skills, so my attention is spent on collecting sources, writing them in, and hoping for the cooperation of my fellow editors to trim, expand, or fix my edits. The sources on Paine were gathered in a matter of a couple hours and added; I'm certain that much more reputable people have commented on her. I'm just concerned that the interview with Yeo might not be applicable since the source is not necessarily reliable, which would be a shame since this source gives information for both Paine and Ashe. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 18:07, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Anyway, I just hope I'm not going too fast and too far with article creation. If any one of the articles I made can't achieve GA status, I have no problem with merging back. Anyway, my most recent creation is Rikku, which I think is a bit better than Paine and Lulu. Currently, the four articles I'm trying to create are Rinoa, Seifer, Ashe, and User:New Age Retro Hippie/Auron. Problem with the first two is that at first glance, I'm not finding anymore reception for the two of them, though I haven't honestly looked very far out of reviews and previews so far. With Ashe, I can't really find any reception - she seems to be the average character who people don't call "very bad" or "very good", which is unfortunate since she has such good information for the conception of the character. And as for Auron, I'm not sure how much information he has; from working on Yuna, Lulu, Paine, and Rikku, I've noticed Auron has some decent reception, but I'm not sure his creation information can expand more than it has. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 19:13, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Kind of a random observation, but I would like to point out that a Characters of Final Fantasy XIII article could be interesting too (and/or Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII)). It has enough notability and the main FFXIII article is starting to get long in the characters section. And also even if the game is recent I think it might be easier to start with something clean and small and expand on it as the information is getting released, rather than having to deal with barely readable, overbloated articles that have collected dust and cruft for several years. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 19:59, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I would certainly not oppose this. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 19:13, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm currently working on User:Megata Sanshiro/Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII) :) Megata Sanshiro (talk) 20:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * While you definitely did more work, I beat you to the punch! :B User:New Age Retro Hippie/Lightning (though I'll probably never bother working on it, with or without you having a better version. :p) - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:10, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Lightning (Final Fantasy) is now public. I didn't bother with the second half of the article since it's the part which is more likely to change wildly with the release. I don't know if I'll tackle Characters of FFXIII. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 23:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm back!
Since this WikiProject can't get enough of me, I now have Chrono Break and Final Fantasy Chronicles up for GAR. Good luck, from GamerPro64 (talk)
 * Blah blah, both are in the "Chrono titles" topic and losing them would result in a FTR, yada yada. The problems on both of them are easily fixable, and it shouldn't be too much work to save them both. Both of these are listed as "to do" articles on the sweeps list, so this was coming sooner or later. Articles remaining on the list, if anyone wants to get ahead of these GARs, are Code Age Commanders, Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings, and World of Final Fantasy VIII. After that, we should finally be done with these bi-weekly GARs. -- Pres N  00:56, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Man, you must read me like a book. That's what I was trying to do. I love Chrono Trigger, but I love to push people's buttons even more. Also, you forgot about Blue Wing Blitz. GamerPro64 (talk) 02:19, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Both saved, I'm fast. -- Pres N  23:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Also, David Fuchs thinks Blue Wing Blitz is cool, so just Code Age Commanders, Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings, and World of Final Fantasy VIII. -- Pres N  17:48, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Jinnai has put World of Final Fantasy VIII up for GAR. -- Pres N  02:58, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to be honest here...I think we should probably dismantle and remove that article. A vast majority of the reception isn't about the "world" itself, but the graphical representation of it, and the other aspects can be covered in other articles or already are far better than they are there. It just doesn't solidify very well as an article from how it is...--Kung Fu Man (talk) 05:09, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you have a point. And the development section of Final Fantasy VIII is kind of short so... Megata Sanshiro (talk) 11:22, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I dismantled the article and redistributed its elements to the FF8 and characters articles. If someone could go through and check the prose that'd help. As of right now though we have an issue that does need tending to: at least two references in the FF8 article are marked as "possibly unreliable". I'll try to deal with both today, if someone's up for adding alt text to the images.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 14:42, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's quite sad to see the said FF world article quickly dispersed just because it's a Good Article. Other FF world articles that aren't GAs such as Spira (Final Fantasy) and Gaia (Final Fantasy VII) are being cited as being so in-universe, missing its out-universe contents - Concept and Reception - yet still lingers, but WoFFVIII gets the "dismantle-redistribute" treatment thanks to the reassessment. I don't see why this should be happening, could we get attention on the lesser quality articles first before we kill the better ones? &mdash; Blue. 15:29, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Isn't that just the usual "other stuff exists" stance though? If anything this was of higher priority because it was a GA up for GAR and in a featured topic, and the reception didn't support the article. I'm agreeing Spira and Gaia are a clustermuck and should probably be dealt with, but it's one step at a time.
 * And in other news User:Dream Focus has apparently decided to make the article a target for his crusade against merging (and yeah I'll probably regret saying that, but god do I hate dealing with him).--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:36, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to admit it does scream of "wp:otherstuff", but I think it shouldn't be dismantled, as least not yet. I had done a few very minor fixes on what "cn" tags were placed there, and the article's reception does seem to talk a bit too much about the graphics. Point is, Jinnai gave a time span, I think it should be used before we deliberate further. &mdash; Blue. 15:46, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * But the problem remains that it's an article that is propped on very little actual reception, and that a lot of the article is actually repeated elsehwere to better effect: the history is a retelling of the game's plot, the creatures and gfs are now discussed in the character article, and the setting development was mostly discussed in the main FF8 article.
 * As for reception, the first two articles have really nothing to do with the world but the game's graphical presentation Blue. The last paragraph has one reliable source actually discussing the world, but the second, Netjak, has been shot down in other GANs and FARs due to unreliability. So even without the repetition factor...we're propping the whole subject's actual notability on one good reference aren't we?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * (correction) The Netjak review is actually Neoseeker, which is cited by some news sources and books, so my bad there for not checking the actual ref. Yet regardless, reading the text it's discussing the graphics, not the actual world.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:58, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Added ALT text to the FF8 article. -- Pres N  16:05, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * So is the merge final? Dream Focus isn't going to try and revert it? If so I can remove it from my worklist. 陣 内 Jinnai 01:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Looks like so, as per his talk page. For those keeping track at home, Jinnai passed/exempted FF12:RW, so the only article we have up on sweeps is Code Age Commanders, which isn't in any sort of topic. Kariteh originally GA'd that one, so hopefully he'll be willing to save it if it turns out to need it. Other than that, though, we're finally done with sweeps. Congratulations to everyone who helped save these articles! Since June, we've saved Chrono (series), Tidus, Organization XIII, Final Fantasy III, Ivalice, Squall Leonhart, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, Chrono Break, and Final Fantasy Chronicles, and re-GA'd Characters of Final Fantasy XII after it got delisted. We lost Final Fantasy Adventure and Universe of Kingdom Hearts, and merged World of Final Fantasy VIII. Nine saves and one redemption out of 13 is pretty amazing, I think. -- Pres N  04:00, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Kefka's character design
There's some precious (but still very short) information for his article here: Megata Sanshiro (talk) 20:56, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Chrono FT Question
Since Chrono Break and Final Fantasy Chronicles were saved, it made me wonder, why doesn't the Chrono Featured Topic have Chrono Resurrection in its topic? Someone give me a reasonable answer, please. GamerPro64 (talk) 01:54, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The topic includes all of the officially produced (or trademarked...) entries in the Chrono series. Chrono Resurrection was an unofficial fangame; it therefore doesn't need to be included, though it certainly could be. That being said, if we ever get the character articles up to GA/FL, I'd support adding CRes into the topic along with them and the music articles. -- Pres N  15:40, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Including it i don't think harms it as the topic isn't "Official Chrono Trigger media" and the article is itself a feature article. 陣 内 Jinnai 22:14, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Jinnai, but I think we should wait until after November 18 to make the supplementary nomination, just to be on the safe side concerning the Chrono Cross TFA nomination (irrational people could oppose the TFA saying there is too much push for the Chrono articles or whatever). Megata Sanshiro (talk) 22:44, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, Chrono Cross can't be on the Main Page now. Why don't we start on that supplementary nomination. GamerPro64 (talk) 20:16, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? It still can. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 22:03, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I was about to start the nomination just now but first we need to actually write a fangame section in the Chrono (series) article, mentioning Chrono Resurrection and linking to it, and briefly mentioning the fangames mentioned in Chrono Trigger. Is someone up for it? Megata Sanshiro (talk) 22:45, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Characters of Kingdom hearts
We should make an effort to make Sora, Riku, and Kairi articles to Kingdom hearts.Bread Ninja (talk) 17:47, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 22:11, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I was actually going to do a Sora article next. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 05:44, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I'm pretty flighty; I kinda lost interest in Sora. I might work on Roxas instead... - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 18:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Um...are we even going to actively try to improve what's already out first? That seems greater priority to me than cranking out more articles that work under the current notability criteria.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:40, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * My biggest problem is I have a pretty poor attention span, so I may get bored all too quickly with an article. ~.~ In all honesty, every time I write an article it's because I got bored. :p - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 23:44, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "Cranking out" more articles is better IMO since this way any IP or newcomer can find an article they like and try to improve it. If the articles don't exist in the first place progress will be much less likely. Remember we here aren't the only possible contributors to Wikipedia. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 00:06, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess to better explain it I feel we're losing sight of quality over quantity. We already have several editors pushing for the notability guideline to be made stricter (and WT:FICT is even further proof of that), and several of us were around for the great "Pokemon purge" and loss of a great deal of fictional articles on wikipedia when the guidelines tightened up. I'm concerned of a repeat of that if we can't at least get the articles to a decent standing before moving on to the next subject, and too many "quickly fired out" articles might add fuel to the fire.
 * It's just an urge of caution is all. And it really doesn't help when very few editors actually do any improving on these articles, excluding the regulars. I'm not trying to be offensive with any of this at the very least.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 01:21, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * My problem is I don't really have anymore resources for the design or reception of any of these characters. And the only ones I could actually work on Appearances-wise are FFVII, VIII, or IX. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:08, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Featured Topic rule change - affects the Final Fantasy VIII FT
As per this discussion, the featured topic process is considering raising the percentage of articles in a topic required for it to be "featured" from 33% to 50%, with a likely target date of September 1st, 2010. The Final Fantasy VIII Featured Topic needs one additional featured article or list in order to remain featured after this date; if this is not achieved it will automatically drop to a "good" topic. Just something for people to think about, if they care about that. Numbers are assuming that no one makes any more character articles in FF8land. -- Pres N  01:47, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Might be able to do it with Squall, but it's going to need a tough peer review that goes for the heart...FACs tend to be backbreaking on character articles...--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:36, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Yasunori Mitsuda, Kenji Ito, Hiroki Kikuta, and Jeremy Soule GANs
Yasunori Mitsuda is now at GAN, at the bottom of a three-month-long pile. Amusingly, Music of the SaGa series is the top of that pile and is also by me, though it looks like Wizardman is going to review it. -- Pres N  21:13, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Also now nominated: Kenji Ito. -- Pres N  18:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I wrote this one so fast that my head is spinning- Hiroki Kikuta is now at GAN. -- Pres N  05:26, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's impressive work! Hoping to finish writing the Noriko Matsueda article in the next few days, so counting her that'll be seven video game composers at GAN. :P The Prince (talk) 12:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * My boss would be happier if I hadn't, but I've gotten Jeremy Soule to GAN as well. The Prince also got Noriko Matsueda to GAN as promised, so that's actually eight SW composer GAN's at once. I swear, none of them will get reviewed for a month; I hate the music section of GAN sometimes. :( -- Pres N  03:51, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look at one or more of them before my shift starts tomorrow morning at work. Truth be told I'd have done it sooner but reviewing articles on actual people can throw me for a loop at first.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:52, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Xenogears
I'm going to try another GAN for Xenogears after some editing, but I'm worried it'll fail due to the story section again. As I'm sure most of you know, the plot's wildly intricate. But that poses as issue: if I don't make the section long and detailed enough, it'll make no sense. But if it's too long and detailed, the article will fail because the plot's too long. Any ideas? ? EVAUNIT 神の人間の殺害者 18:09, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Template:Final Fantasy series and FFL/FFA
Just noticed that while the Final Fantasy Legend and Final Fantasy Adventure articles retain the FF series template, they're not actually on them. Should we work them into the template somehow (and if so how) or remove them? I could see people running across them and assuming that they're still part of the FF series as it were, and we do still list games like Mystic Quest on the template.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:45, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd say we should list them under Related games. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 19:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. -- Pres N  20:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. I shortened Dissidia's title to, well, Dissidia for the template's display, and put FFL2 and 3 in parenthesis next to the first one. It worked out pretty well.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 21:11, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Final Fantasy VIII isn't complete
Final Fantasy VIII, being an FA, is incomplete. The article talks mostly about the PlayStation version without going into detail on the Development and/or Reception of the PC version. The only significant snippet on the PC version is its retail description. Should I add the article into FAR for not following Criteria 1(b)? &mdash; Blue. 03:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ...or, you could just bring the subject up here, like you have, and we can fix the gap without throwing it immediately through an impersonal bureaucracy. I don't think we'll find much in the way of development for a port, but we can certainly get some reception for the PC version. -- Pres N  03:48, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I concede the point; while I don't think the problems were large enough for a FAR, no one worked on it until you nominated it. -- Pres N  15:59, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * For the record I was going to (though nothing was stopping Blue either), but I'm doing a 40 hour work week at Wal-Mart. Not much free time. :\--Kung Fu Man (talk) 19:11, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Inteview with Square's higher ups on Wii.com
Ran across this while looking for FFL info, though google's chewing up the translation so I'm not sure what to make out here. If we can get someone to translate it though, it looks like he discusses not only FFL but a few bits about the the original Final Fantasy game. Here's the link to the interivew: Wii.com.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 12:39, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Tifa Lockhart up for GAN
Even if you dislike Final Fantasy VII, you have to love this girl. Going for a hat trick (for now) with my FF7 GA's, she's up for good article status if someone wants to give her a review.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 05:19, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Rock on, and thanks for the Kenji Ito review. -- Pres N  05:50, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * My only thing is the reception - is there no negative reception for her? I'm sure that there must have been someone complaining about her appearance or something like that. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:00, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Didn't find anything in reliable sources. Some fictional characters just don't get looked at from the other side of the coin, or at least if they do they don't seem to write about it.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 06:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, just checking. Otherwise, it's great. I'm not a good reviewer of articles, so my opinion ain't too awesome! - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:59, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Great job! You really a knack for improving these FFVII character articles. Quick question: you referenced Tifa's Ehrgeiz voice actor with an Ultimania; do you know if Cloud's old VA was listed there, too? I removed the ANN reference after it was decided to be unreliable, but never found a ref to replace it with. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 11:37, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually that ref was covering Ayumi Ito as a VA, I'm not sure where the Ehrgeiz information came from to be honest, and as far as I can tell the voice actors were never even credited for that game. Looks like someone added it in slyly and I forgot to nix it :X--Kung Fu Man (talk) 11:29, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay. And I see you have already removed the Cloud VA info. I don't think the VAs for the game matter too much, in any case. It was not their regular voice actor and the game has minimal impact on the character, let alone the gaming world. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 20:08, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Suggesting dismantling of Final Fantasy Anthology
The article really doesn't have that much of a purpose on Wikipedia as it stands: both FFV and VI cover the reception between the two of them, and the remaining information can just be dissolved without loss. The problem is if such was done, what would the target be for the redirect?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:35, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * disambiguation? - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:07, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * With the links pointing at FFV and FFVI? I can dig that.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 22:00, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, done. What about Final Fantasy Chronicles? It's currently a GA, but is in a similar boat, and do to the size of the one paragraph sections might find itself under a GAR.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 22:18, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It was already given an GAR, and I passed it. I don't think it should be like Anthology due to its improvements. Besides, if it gets merged or something, I just wasted PresN's time. GamerPro64 (talk) 01:11, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * And isn't that the biggest crime of all? :P -- Pres N  01:26, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * On second thought, merge it. :3 GamerPro64 (talk) 01:34, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * :( -- Pres N  01:35, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * But seriously, if Chronoicles gets merged or whatever before Chrono Resurrection gets added on the Chrono titles, then it won't become a Good Topic. GamerPro64 (talk) 01:43, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Aye, it would keep the Chrono topic with a majority of featured articles that way.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:44, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Final Fantasy VIII FAReview
nominated Final Fantasy VIII for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. &mdash; Blue. 01:52, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's at FARC; Kung Fu Man did most of what was asked for and I just finished off the last piece, so it's good to go for voting. -- Pres N  15:36, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Kept. -- Pres N  06:49, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Final Fantasy II project
I'm branching out and trying new things- I'm attempting to bring Final Fantasy II back up to GA level, with the rationale that it's the harder to improve of II and IV, the only non-GA+ main game articles we have. If anyone would like to come and help I'd be much obliged; I'd super appreciate if anyone could cut the plot section (novel) down to size. I'll do it if I must, but I've never played the game so I might make a hash of it. If we power through this article and Final Fantasy IV, we might even manage to resurrect the featured topic before Final Fantasy XIII gets released and messes it up again. -- Pres N  03:28, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Featured topics are a terrible idea. ~.~ - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 03:34, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll help if I can, will probably end up doing so in short bursts however.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:47, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I cut up the plot section, though it would still be nice if someone who's played the game can take a look to see if I took out anything super-important. The article still needs a bunch of work before it can be nominated, mainly copy-editing, references, and a bigger reception section. A bigger development section, I think, is pretty impossible. -- Pres N  21:18, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Alright, I'm done with it. I'm sure there's more that could be done to it, but I think it's good enough for GA now. The plot thing still applies, if anyone wants to take a crack at it, and my copy-editing skills have never been the best either, if anyone takes a fancy to that. -- Pres N  03:04, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks to Kariteh for some intensive copy-editing/rewriting of the plot section on FF2, and Guyinblack25 for a bit of much-needed development info. -- Pres N  18:33, 7 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Now I'm starting to work on the other Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy IV. You guys are more likely to have played this one, so come on by and help out! A good starting point is to address the points brought up in its second, fatal FAR. -- Pres N  18:33, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Blue Article needs development section info badly! -- Pres N  22:23, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey! I added some development info, but one of the sources I used is a forum post which quotes an issue of Nintendo Power that has no transcript online. Someone should try to find the original article (with page numbers and all that stuff). Kariteh (talk) 12:25, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh wow, thanks a lot! That's super-helpful! I'll see if I can track down that issue, but three full, cited paragraphs of stuff really fleshes out that section. -- Pres N  15:40, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Alright, and with that big push from Kariteh now they're both at GAN! -- Pres N  17:10, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * FF4 has passed. -- Pres N  04:02, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * And now FF2 has passed- meaning that for the first time in a while, every Final Fantasy game article from 1 to 12 is GA/FA! -- Pres N  21:39, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Character reception quip
Something to bring up, but I'm noticing with a few of the character articles, mainly Paine, fall back heavily on reception for the voice acting provided to the character. I can see points where that can work in cases where its supplementary and "iconic" for the character (i.e. Raul Julia's portrayal of M. Bison for example), but given the voice actors can change from game to game or media to media, or the quality of such can be solely reliant on the game itself (even VA's have bad days), it's probably better not to fall back on it. After carving it out of Paine's she ended up with a significantly smaller amount of reception for notability. It can kick us in the butt down the line too if we make a push for GAN on these to get good topics set up.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 14:21, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Fortress (Square Enix) PR
Supposedly Fortress (Square Enix) needs to be added to the FF12 topic by the 22nd or so; the prereq for that is a completed peer review. I've started one here, so if you have any suggestions go right ahead. -- Pres N  05:59, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The sup. nomination is now live. (Featured topic candidates/Final Fantasy XII/addition1) -- Pres N  19:36, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Nomination has now passed. -- Pres N  19:54, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Bizzare template...
This was just created, and though I'm pretty sure I know the answer, what do people think of Template:Similar Games? It seems to me that it's unnessary and not to mention somewhat unneutral (and if not, certainly should be renamed). I would nom for deletion, but I figured it's a but too soon... ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 01:19, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Not to mention OR - a whole bunch of games by different developers, grouped together because this guy thinks they are "similar games"? I'd kill it. -- Pres N  06:33, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I now added it, here. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 17:15, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
Despite wanting to clean up the article, Fleet Command has been exessively trimming the Sephiroth article leaving only three sentences to his role in FF VII. Even more, his origins and methods get to Lifestream are not mentioned in the article leaving it confusing. He says that such info is fancruft and it does not pass notability even though the notability guidelines refers to what deserves an article. Also, even if notability also applies to these events, third party sources have talked about that. Could you take a look? Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 21:52, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sigh, I thought he had finally stopped his disruptive behaviour. Sorry, but I can't be bothered getting into a big argument with this guy again, even though his actions are highly inappropriate. He could at least have opened up a discussion on the article's talk page... The Prince (talk) 00:51, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

File:FFVI characters on airship.png
Just letting people know that the image File:FFVI characters on airship.png is up for deletion based on some licensing thing. I'm not as well versed on this issue, but I figure I'd mention it here since the result could have ramifications for other SQ-EN related media. -- ZeWrestler  Talk 12:09, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Artwork is better than in-game sprites. I think this image should be removed based on the fact that it's really hard to make out how the characters look like. The artwork shows the characters' appearance a lot better as that's how Yoshitaka Amano designed them. For such an old game such as FFVI, these sprites don't really show the characters' intended appearance due to limited technology. This makes it hard for non-gamers to understand what the characters actually look like. If an artwork group shot of the characters exists, it should be used, if not, then the sprite image should be removed anyway. The Prince (talk) 12:37, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm going to disagree with you. People spent their time playing the game. Not looking at the artwork. Yes it is of limited quality, due to technology of the time, but it is what players of the game had come to know. I also think it shows good for a historical point of view of what people saw when they played the game. Also, if you have no images at all that is going to be far worse than only using an in game screen shoot. With nothing there, the article losses quality. -- ZeWrestler  Talk 03:38, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really. We don't add images just to add images; we add images to help readers understand the subject, and this image does very little to satisfy that. I'm sorry but that's just how I feel. I'm the one who removed the image in the first place, but I won't fight you on removing it again. Ultimately, the article is in pretty bad shape and would be better merged anyway. The Prince (talk) 15:10, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

'Music of [insert here] series' articles
Hi just to let you all know that some of the music articles of some final fantasy and other might lose GA status due to the track lists not reformatted or they are collapsed.

You can only collapse tracklist if there is a ref on it showing the tracklist on the source. I mentioned this on Music of Kingdom Hearts to be reformatted.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:46, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

20% of our articles are GAs
With the passing of Jeremy Soule, according to the Index over 20% of all of our articles are now GAs. (64 out of 317) An additional 7% are featured articles or lists. (23 out of 317) -- Pres N  19:06, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * RIP Jeremy Soule, you will be remembered. --Mika1h (talk) 20:59, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha. :D The Prince (talk) 21:58, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh god, that's bad. Scared me for a second. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 01:29, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

how is Jeremy Soule part of the wiki project: square enix? Also i question whether some articles should actually meet GA status. some need reassessment.Bread Ninja (talk) 15:33, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * He composed the soundtrack to Secret of Evermore, a Square-created game. And GAs are GAs until they are reassessed, which articles in particular are you concerned about? -- Pres N  16:09, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It oddly enough wasn't even Soule who took us to 20%; Tifa Lockhart passed GA unnoticed on the 8th. -- Pres N  18:24, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Just because he composed a soundtrack for one SE game, doesn't mean he is tied to SE enough to be part of SE scope.

also the ones i think will need reassessment are the articles relating soundtracks. some of the articles are against WP:ACCESS because the track lists are collapsed even though there are is no ref giving a direct link to the track list. Bread Ninja (talk) 15:37, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Right. Please point me to the rule that says that you can't have a collapsed tracklist... unless you have a reference. I just checked WP:ACCESS, and there's nothing there that says that. Tracklists are collapsed on video game soundtrack and game articles project-wide, and I've never heard this assertion before. -- Pres N  16:02, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

The reason why you need a ref of the tracklist is so that people who dont have Java or CSS can ACCESS the information, no ref of the tracklist while the tracklist in the article is collapsed is against WP:ACCESS because the information is not accessible. a ref on the tracklist will allow it to occur. it's common knowledge.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:37, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

it's not a direct rule to enforce it, but not doing so will make it in accessible which is the reason why WP:ACCESS exist.

EDIT: also you haven't replied me about Jeremy Soule. Bread Ninja (talk) 19:39, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * (ec) That really isn't enough for the articles to lose their status as GAs. The reason for the tracklists being collapsed is because they are extremely long, and it would affect readability if they were uncollapsed. It's been decided that everything that's been developed by Square/Square Enix be included in the project. Secret of Evermore was developed by Square, and therefore the game's developers, such as composer Soule, fall under this project. The Prince (talk) 19:46, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. At what point is being employed by Square Co. not enough to make him apart of the Square project?

you misunderstand, he only did it for one game, we could call that like a "guest appearance" to square enix but other than that, he has not composed again for SE and focused on more western video games and films.

and New age retro hippie, being employed once is not enough to fall under the project. it's like placing utada hikaru in SE as well just because she played 2 songs and a remix for kingdom hearts series, even though she made multiple singles for other groups such as Rebuild of Evangelion series.Bread Ninja (talk) 15:20, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Jeremy Soule is much for famous for his work with Elders Scroll and Harry potter as what i can see. Also i still suggest find refs for the tracklist, it would not only allow them to be uncollapsed but the tracklist would be verified and not be speculated to be OR.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:43, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Look. Jeremy Soule worked for Square- it was the first company he worked for as a composer. He composed a game for Square. Therefore, under the definition that the members of the project have for what we include, he is part of this project. Our opinion is the only criteria it takes to put an article in the project, as we are the members of the project. Yes, he is better-known for the Elder Scrolls series- there's nothing stopping an Elder Scrolls task force or wikiproject from including him there as well. It's not exclusive. At this point, you're condescending to the person who wrote the article (me) about Soule's career, you're condescending to the project members in claiming that your opinion of what should be included in the project is better than ours, and you seem to be arguing that articles cannot be in multiple wikiprojects. Please stop.


 * Also, regarding the tracklists- I would just source them to the albums themselves. That's a completely justified source, as the tracklist is printed on the back. If you want to source them to something more immediately viewable, be my guest- in the amount of time you've spent complaining about them you could have found sources for at least a couple articles. -- Pres N  16:52, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

PresN, please be civil. It's called discussing, one opinion against another is common, and shouldn't be taken so hard. and no i don't think that wikiprojects are exclusive to there articles. but again, Jeremy Soule article mentions very little from what i can see, but that's just what i see.

i guess this could be taken at a personal matter for you, seeing as how you wrote the article.

by the time i was discussing with you, i was also trying to make a wikiproject task force for .hack series and fixing NGE articles. plus it's not like I'm on all day, i have limited time do to other things.Bread Ninja (talk) 17:55, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Xenogears GA and potential topic
Xenogears just passed GAN, making it our 6th GA of the month! With its passing, if we get Characters of Xenogears to GA/FL, we have a Xenogears GT made, as both of the soundtrack articles are GAs already. -- Pres N  16:33, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:58, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Date of FFX-2 development
The Final Fantasy X-2 article claims development started in early 2002 but this article says it started "approximately one year" before October 2002. Which one is correct? Jonathan Hardin&#39; (talk) 10:48, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the two cites at the end of the sentence in the article do not say early 2002, which makes your link the only reference- I've gone ahead and changed it to "late 2001". Also note what I did with your other development info you put in the article- it's now in the text itself, rather than a separate paragraph, and the bare links are now full references- I know the template is pretty lengthy, but once you learn how to use it it makes it so other people don't have to come behind you and clean it up. I find it helpful to- under "my preferences"->gadgets- enable RefTools, which adds a "cite" link at the top of the screen where you can just fill in some boxes and it creates the template for you. -- Pres N  15:22, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Jonathan Hardin&#39; (talk) 19:24, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm actually pretty sure that there being a Rikku game was a mistranslation. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup! Though, it was a rumour rather than a mistranslation. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:59, 24 January 2010 (UTC)