Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Square Enix/archive/9

WTF
. That wasn't neutral nor well sourced. Jonathan Hardin&#39; (talk) 16:02, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you shouldn't have removed it all.


 * Edge magazine - talks about the producers (although there is only one). Taking that here is WP:COATRACKy and potentially liable. That should be removed, although it would be appropriate in some form for Kitase.
 * Korean one - removing the unsourced biased claim makes the rest of the statement more positive.
 * Gamespot - doesn't appear to mention Toriyama, so extrapolating that its because of him is WP:OR. 陣 内 Jinnai 18:47, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Fair use rationales
I've been going through and removing excessive images, and I have found that even in some featured articles, the rationales add up to simply templates - for example, in Final Fantasy VIII, an image that could very easily have a strong rationale - the one demonstrating the use of pre-rendered cutscenes, uses the exact same rationale as used in many other articles. Same with both of Final Fantasy IX's gameplay images. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 19:17, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
 * >_> Hello? I don't mean to imply that no one understands the gravity of the situation, but it's pretty bad - in all intents and purposes, most of the images on this project could be removed, save for the lead images. I'm going to go and try to fix up some of the FURs, but any help would be greatly appreciated. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:44, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * for final fantasy VIII: Experience level could be explained slightly more simpler. and the second image in the gameplay section might be better in development.


 * For Final Fantasy IX i do see alot more images that don't seem to hold any strong relevance.Bread Ninja (talk) 00:29, 4 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Per WP:VG/GL and consensus at WP:VG one gameplay image meets the criteria of fair use rationale assuming its not entirely made of text and actually shows gameplay, so the 1 screenshot/article should not be removed without getting larger consensus over at WP:VG or it might cause some edit wars. 陣 内 Jinnai 01:01, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
 * A gameplay screenshot fair use rationale should still try to assert as strong of a fair use rationale as possible. It also comes off as a poor show of the editors if the rationales are generic template-like ones that are used for every image. Every truly good image can have more than simply being the requisite gameplay image. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 01:42, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
 * For future reference, can the FUR be contained in the description / purpose field of the non-free use summary template? Axem Titanium (talk) 05:40, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do that for FAC all the time. -- Pres N  06:44, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't have an example right now but generally speaking I've noticed that "cast of characters" images are sometimes unnecessary and redundant in the case when most the characters are already shown on the cover art image. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 08:58, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
 * They are also inappropriate on the main page if there is a character page. 陣 内 Jinnai 19:57, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Unless, the game isn't story-dependent (RPG), than images of characters on the main page is highly unnecessary. Though, i do agree if there is an individual character article, then an image of the same character is inappropriate. It usually depends though....seeing as Final Fantasy XIII article has a character of the cast. it doesn't seem that big of a deal, especially for RPG.

Anyways, the image of map navigation in Final Fantasy VIII seems irrelevant as it wasn't the first final fantasy game to do so (I'm positive it was final fantasy VII as it was the first 3d final fantasy) nor does the section give any mention of it's relevance. Image in development and release in Final Fantasy IX can be removed, but mostly the captions in the other images in that article should be reworked to sound less "attached" to the subject. The game quotes should also be reffed in better.Bread Ninja (talk) 20:21, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Those casts, if there is a character article, get removed from anime & manga articles because "they aren't necessary" since there is a spinout article. I believe it would be seen as unessasary at an FAC too since there would be a spinout article dealing with it.
 * Also, I believe your wrong on the map. FF1 had a navigation map. 陣 内 Jinnai 20:29, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I was talking about the 3d, pre-rendered backgrounds....but yes, the first also had pre-rendered backgrounds. But it depends though....if there is significant plot and constant mention of the characters, then it could be left, or added. the size of the image is also significant. Usually anime and manga cast images are really big so it's preferred to keep them in there own article. Unless the main article does a really good job describing the cast....image would be much more beneficial as they will be constantly mentioned. But right now that isn't the problem, so we should only focus on what was initially brought up.Bread Ninja (talk) 20:40, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * RPGs also have a similarly big cast and most titles we cover are RPGs. 陣 内 Jinnai 21:49, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * But theres hardly ever images with large cast. unlike anime, RPGs hardly have an NFC images with every character.Bread Ninja (talk) 21:53, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Even in anime its not all that common as you think. There are a number of series that do not do that. 陣 内 Jinnai 20:49, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * hmm....my point still stands....regardless, images of characters (if it's the primary ones only) might be ok to keep in main article. The entire cast including the main cast should be in their respected character lists.Bread Ninja (talk) 22:35, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I've still gotta disagree on that. It should be top priority to use as few fair use files as infrequently as possible. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 23:44, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean we can't keep the images...There been plenty of images of potions/elixirs out there which might i add are still around. Primary cast is essential to my belief. Its one of the key things people look for. And for JRPGs such as final fantas,y the characters are always being reviewed.Bread Ninja (talk) 00:11, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * We're not losing images of characters, we're simply using them less. We are reducing the number of images used, fair use images, but it is for the best interest of the project. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 01:03, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * IDk, the project being, a proposed plan that everyone agrees, but its all subjective. just like the anime and manga project prefers not to split no matter what. Even though an article of a certain size could be split. The character image being used less, doesn't really mean much. its just one image down. But i can see another way to use less free rational images.Bread Ninja (talk) 05:06, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Which potion/elixir images are you talking about?? Jonathan Hardin&#39; (talk) 09:04, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Final Fantasy XII has an image of potions under versions and merchandise.Bread Ninja (talk) 09:56, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a free image. Jonathan Hardin&#39; (talk) 11:39, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I know that....but missing the point. Idk, but to me, i treat free images just like non-free images. If its necessary it can be kept, if not, then why keep them?Bread Ninja (talk) 12:06, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Free use images need less strong rationales to be included because their inclusion does not violate the project's mission, whereas non-free images are only allowed when there's a compelling reason to include, because too many fair use images can harm Wikipedia. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 20:57, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, a spam of images that aren't needed could very well affect the article despite being free-content. And even if its not overly used, a highly unnecessary image would affect the article.Bread Ninja (talk) 08:01, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

April 2011 Roll Call
Please sign below if you are still with us.
 * 1) Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:51, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * we really shouldn't be doing this monthly. we don't need to chop down the list just because some haven't came in a few months. it's better to do this yearly or every 6 months. this isn't necessary at all and just time consuming.Bread Ninja (talk) 20:54, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, i do agree it doesn't need to be monthy, however, I'd also say it should only really be nessasary to respond if you haven't posted on the page for a while (and even then missing 1 roll-call shouldn't automatically remove you). It's clear given the page's current activity some of the members who are active. 陣 内 Jinnai 20:52, 11 April 2011 (UTC)


 * 1) SenatorSteve (talk - contributions)  —Preceding undated comment added 03:42, 18 April 2011 (UTC).

Black Mage
Went ahead and created a draft of a Black Mage article in my userspace. It's certainly not perfect, but it might be enough to pass notability guidelines and the like. I recall seeing a comic where the Black Mage killed Mario when playing basketball (I think it was in VG Cats), so that might be worth adding into the Polular culture section, although it might not be notable enough. At any rate, I've got about 5 sources for reception. Harry Blue5 (talk) 17:27, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Mmmm, not seeing it. You've basically taken the Black Mage section from Final Fantasy character jobs, split it into smaller chunks, and added one paragraph. Most of that paragraph (Cultural Impact) is reviewers commenting on the use of the Black Mage in specific games- that's not really "Impact" or commentary on the Black Mage as a whole. The GameRadar "classic" quote is good, and the SoulCalibur IV thing is good, but I don't think you have enough real-world impact there to justify spinning it out into its own article. Which is not to say that such impact does not exist! Minor appearances in webcomics isn't going to do it, but there's certainly a good chance that there are good sources out there. I just don't think you're there yet, sorry. -- Pres N  19:02, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I know I'm not there yet, otherwise I would've outright made the article. I agree that the appearances section needs rewriting, but I haven't got round to it yet. I just wanted to ask if anyone thought it was a feasible idea. Harry Blue5 (talk) 19:20, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Popular pages
Hi! I would like to seek consensus from the project for requesting a WPSE "Popular pages" page, similar to this. I think it would be useful to see which articles need the most attention (either because they're popular OR because no one reads them). The request can be made at but requires discussion with the project first. Thanks. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 12:04, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I suppose if the service is free, why not? It could be interesting discussion material. Or maybe we could even revive "Collaboration of the Fortnight" based on which article is most popular for the month. Any thoughts? Axem Titanium (talk) 22:08, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Well it may also be beatifical to push up the quality of some of the less used one since it might make them more viable. 陣 内 Jinnai 22:13, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure. it could help.Bread Ninja (talk) 00:46, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Go for it. -- Pres N  19:49, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ Megata Sanshiro (talk) 13:54, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Characters template
If one wanted to look at all the characters in Final Fantasy, it would be super hard without looking at Category:Final Fantasy characters. Is there a reason that there isn't a template to link them all? Blake (Talk·Edits) 19:42, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Template:Final Fantasy characters links all the character articles together. Are you suggesting something more than that? Axem Titanium (talk) 19:46, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * What about navbox that listed the "Characters of..." pages as well as individual characters? Harry Blue5 (talk) 19:52, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry for not being specific enough. I meant characters that have split articles. The only place the characters are placed in a template is the series template when they are at the correct page. Because of how the template is set up, the characters all appear, but never at the same time. Blake (Talk·Edits) 20:03, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Do you mean something like this? Harry Blue5 (talk) 20:10, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I wish it was less ugly and used less whitespace, but yes. Would this work at all? Could they be split like "Main characters" and "Minor characters", or are very few of them minor enough? I know little of the series. Blake (Talk·Edits) 20:17, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I tried a side box version, if you want to take a look. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:39, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how we'd fit the sidebox template into individual character articles. I think a navbox would fit more naturally into the article (it also seems to be the standard on Wiki, but that doesn't matter too much). Harry Blue5 (talk) 21:45, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I dunno. We have a lot of navboxes already and I wouldn't want to clutter the bottom of each article too much further. Think of it this way. If you were at a character's article, you'd already have other characters within the same game available due to the main FF template, and those are the most likely search targets. You're probably not going to be looking for a character from a whole different game. On the other hand, if you're at a game's character page, the side box will be available to you to quickly navigate to other character pages, which is much more likely, if you're already at a character page. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:00, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * If we go with the sidebox version, we'll replace the current Template:Final Fantasy characters, right? Harry Blue5 (talk) 15:18, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, that would make sense. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:38, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the new version could do with a bit of polish, but otherwise I think it's fine. Harry Blue5 (talk) 23:57, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I put the new version up at the FF characters template. Go ahead and make any changes you feel are appropriate. Axem Titanium (talk) 15:45, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Template:Final Fantasy character
There's a discussion on WP:FCHAR about Template:Final Fantasy character (the IU subtemplate of Template:Infobox VG character for Final Fantasy characers). Keep all discussion centralised there please, just so the discussion's not divided between the projects. Harry Blue5 (talk) 21:51, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for notifying the WikiProject. We might have missed the discussion, otherwise. Axem Titanium (talk) 03:57, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Article examples - nom & reassess placement
I think these particular ones, nominees and reassessments, should be placed more prominently on the page, specially possibly on the right above news. These announcements of what is up for review are time-sentantive material and anyone coming to this page should have an idea what's going on currently that may need attention. Where its at, they are unlikely to be seen except by those who know where to look. 陣 内 Jinnai 01:45, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

FLC needs a nominator
Hey all- back in December User:LegaiaRules created List of Front Mission media, and did a pretty fine job of it. A few months later I went through and cleaned it up in the style of List of Final Fantasy video games, which I got to FL in the Fall. I asked Legaia if he wanted to nominate it for FLC, as it's ready to go, but he hasn't gotten back to me in a week; he basically only edits WP to add details to Front Mission pages and as such is only sporadically active. Since he hasn't gotten back to me, I think it's fair for someone else to nominate the list, but I can't do it- I have an outstanding FLC and another one in the pipeline right behind it. So... anyone feel like nominating? I'm willing to basically do all of the work addressing concerns, I just need someone else to actually propose it. -- Pres N  01:21, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * So basically, you want somebody else to take the credit for your work because you already have enough FL on your belt? Thats a weird request. Blake (Talk·Edits) 02:05, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No- you're not allowed to have more than one FLC open at a time. I don't want to wait another month/month-and-a-half to nominate this, so I'd rather someone else fill in the template. I don't care about the "credit", anyways; I'll list it on my user page, and that's the only place where I care. What else is there, WP:WBFLN? The top guy there has 86 nominations- I have 15. Slightly shifting on that list doesn't matter to me at all. -- Pres N  02:41, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Doesn't the article need some sort of sales figures? Jonathan Hardin&#39; (talk) 13:11, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

May 2011 Roll Call
Please sign with four tildes if you are still with us.
 * 1) Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:45, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Move request at Characters of Kingdom Hearts
Just so everyone knows, there's a move request here, if you guys want to comment. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:01, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Mythology of Final Fantasy VII
What should be done with this article? Jonathan Hardin&#39; (talk) 14:44, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I redirected it to FF7; it was a long page of OR that could never be sourced- there were a few sources for what the Norse mythology actually was, but nothing to show that FF7 was intentionally derived from it in any way. It was also wwwwaaaayyyy too detailed; it could all be summarized in a couple of sentences in Gaia (Final Fantasy VII) if anyone really wanted. -- Pres N  18:59, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's best suited to be redirected to Gaia (Final Fantasy VII) more than Final fantasy VII itself.Bread Ninja (talk) 22:33, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. -- Pres N  07:48, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Ogopogo Examiner
This article was recently prodded to death without our notice. Is this something we want to DRV? Axem Titanium (talk) 14:57, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I can pull it out if we decide to, but looking at it right now, there weren't any sources in the article at all. -- Pres N  16:34, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Does it look notable? Or can it be a short section in Square (company)? Axem Titanium (talk) 19:00, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say short section. Copied the text to here if you want to look. -- Pres N  19:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Fortress (Square Enix)
The game has been cancelled, so it should probably be merged to another article as it is too short to be a Good or Featured article on its own. Where could it be merged to? Ivalice? Final Fantasy XII? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:18, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * FFXII, I think. I mean, it was a direct spin-off of it, after all. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 22:24, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * FF12. There was a referenced line that the game was still in development by another company (that someone removed as the source needed a free signup), but it didn't give any details or a source. I'll merge it to FF12 tonight. -- Pres N  02:10, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I disagree. The game has not been cancelled (the original developer simply bit the dust) and there is enough information in existence to make it a Good or Featured article even in the project's current state: 1/ there is information on the project out there that currently isn't in the article (and I'm not talking about Postwar's and my edits; there is more information out there), 2/ "too short" is not a criterion for Good and Featured articles, as PresN should know. Jonathan Hardin&#39; (talk) 07:41, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Should disagree too. Merging is not an option here. The article simply requires expansion. Postwar (talk) 12:02, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * There's enough information to not merge. Though i doubt its up to FA. it could possibly be GA if we find more.Bread Ninja (talk) 12:22, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Pageview stats
After a recent request, I added WikiProject Square Enix to the list of projects to compile monthly pageview stats for. The data is the same used by http://stats.grok.se/en/ but the program is different, and includes the aggregate views from all redirects to each page. The stats are at WikiProject Square Enix/Popular pages.

The page will be updated monthly with new data. The edits aren't marked as bot edits, so they will show up in watchlists. You can view more results, request a new project be added to the list, or request a configuration change for this project using the toolserver tool. If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Mr.Z-man 00:52, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Most viewed stub in our project currently is.....
Mystery Dungeon, and boy is it a shambles. I think I'll have a run at this organization, this could be a good stub to get up to start. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:14, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, saw that; good luck, finding information on any of the mystery dungeon games is really hard. Incidentally, for those keeping track at home, back when we decided to get all stubs to start we were at 79.5% start+; we're now at 88.4%, and almost all of the games are done. -- Pres N  22:04, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

More stats for people who don't want to comb through the above-linked stats page:
 * Most popular stub: Mystery Dungeon
 * Most popular start: Final Fantasy XIII-2
 * Most popular start that's been released: The 3rd Birthday
 * Most popular C: Final Fantasy Versus XIII
 * Most popular released C: Final Fantasy XIV
 * Most popular B: Square Enix
 * Most popular GA: Final Fantasy XIII (whoo!)
 * Most popular FA: Final Fantasy (5000 a day!)
 * Most popular List: List of Square Enix games
 * Most popular FL: List of Final Fantasy video games (whoo!)

And the flip side:
 * Least popular stub: Taku Murata (2 views a day!)
 * Least popular start: Code Age Brawls
 * Least popular C: Gameplay of Dragon Quest
 * Least popular B: Ryuji Sasai
 * Least popular GA: Music of the Front Mission series (awww, I won both sides)
 * Least popular FA: Radical Dreamers: Nusumenai Hōseki (actually pretty high up)
 * Least popular List: List of DS:Style products
 * Least popular FL: List of Final Fantasy compilation albums (both sides again :[)

Also, Book:Final Fantasy series gets 5000 hits a month, while Book:Final Fantasy (video game) gets...24. -- Pres N  22:24, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we should update The 3rd Birthday as it clearly is released.Bread Ninja (talk) 22:35, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If the trend continues the next few times for FF taking most of the list, maybe we should have a "most popular non-Final Fantasy" page. 陣 内 Jinnai 02:22, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Heck, why not. It doesn't take very long. Stats for WP:SE excluding WP:FF:


 * Most popular stub: Mystery Dungeon
 * Most popular start: Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
 * Most popular start that's been released: The 3rd Birthday
 * Most popular C: Kingdom Hearts III
 * Most popular released C: Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep
 * Most popular B: Square Enix
 * Most popular GA: Dragon Quest
 * Most popular FA: Kingdom Hearts
 * Most popular List: List of Square Enix games
 * Most and Least popular FL: List of Kingdom Hearts media (We only have 4, and it's the only non-FF)
 * Least popular stub: Taku Murata (2 views a day!)
 * Least popular start: Code Age Brawls
 * Least popular C: Gameplay of Dragon Quest
 * Least popular B: Ryuji Sasai
 * Least popular GA: Music of the Front Mission series
 * Least popular FA: Radical Dreamers: Nusumenai Hōseki
 * Least popular List: List of DS:Style products

It basically is the same list with Kingdom Hearts stuff replacing FF stuff. TL;DR - please find sources for Mystery Dungeon! -- Pres N  06:51, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I suggest making a table for the games in similar fashion as Chocobo series has. I'll see what i can find, but usually not the best at looking for this. But i will at least try.Bread Ninja (talk) 09:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Just make sure that the article also covers PMD to some extent. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 20:44, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

I've started working on List of Square Enix games; it's our most popular non-FL and the second-most popular list after List of Final Fantasy video games, but is a bit of an unsourced mess. Everyone is welcome to help out, if the idea interests you- I plan to push it to FL, probably nominating it after List of Front Mission media... one of our least popular lists. Priorities! -- Pres N  20:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

BREAKING: Matsuno confirms that FF12 and Vagrant Story are not in the same world
Quotes: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28937771&postcount=313

Source: http://twitter.com/#!/YasumiMatsuno

What I always suspected has now been confirmed -- Vagrant Story is not set in the world of Ivalice and the so-called "references" to FFT in VS and to VS in FF12 were just Easter eggs and not actually story-significant. I also suspected that Square Enix (not Matsuno) was the one who retconned VS into Ivalice during the development of FF12 in an attempt at hyping the latter game.

This new information needs to be spread around in the fandom and documented on the relevant Wikipedia articles, while of course not removing the information about how Square Enix (not Matsuno) does consider VS part of Ivalice. Jonathan Hardin&#39; (talk) 00:49, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Would need to wait for a non-forum or Twitter source to report it, though. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 02:16, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Nope, twitter is a medium; if that's Matsuno's account, then it's the same as if he said it in an interview or blog post. That said- it confirms that Matsuno did not consider VS to be in the same world as FF12/FFT, but he also says that SE corporate/marketing "may" disagree/"do" disagree- we can only use the statement as a source that the designer did not intend them to be the same, not that SE doesn't consider them the same world. As a practical matter, do we remove VS from the "Video game set in Ivalice" box? Or are the designer's wishes trumped by the publisher's? -- Pres N  02:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well there's not much information relating Vagrant story to Ivalice as i don't see Lea Mond or Valendia in the map. However, the most i see is that it has Ivalice mythology.Bread Ninja (talk) 06:18, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, in the VS Wikipedia article (that I still watch like a hawk) we have the "Connection to FFXII" section". Shall I get rid of that now that the Director himself stated otherwise on his twitter, or just keep it because SE is saying something else. &mdash; Blue. 04:10, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say tidy up that paragraph a little, add the new information and then move it down to legacy, since it does seem to apply there.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:40, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Did that. Not sure if its appropriate enough to cite his twitter, but I guess this would work. Up to you all. &mdash; Blue. 15:34, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

FF12 Good Topic
Hey, as Fortress has now been officially noted as cancelled (as of E3) the FF12 topic has started its three month retention period; if the article isn't GA'd or deleted in that time the topic will be up for removal. Even apart from that, if it's never going to be released it's now a permanent 1-section article- I don't know if it meets notability to stay a stand-alone article. I'm thinking of merging it to GRIN, as most of the interesting information relates to that studio's demise; a bit can be moved to FF12. Any objections? -- Pres N  04:26, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Support. I do wonder though; the mention of Fortress is always made by GRIN. I don't remember Square Enix ever giving statements related to this game, except for tthat one executive who says he had never been involved in Fortress (did I quote that right?). &mdash; Blue. 09:03, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, till now- some American SE guy said he had nothing to do with "the rumored project Fortress", but at E3 Toriyama said that it was cancelled; I think that may have been the first time an SE person acknowledged it was ever real. -- Pres N  20:33, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done - merged to GRIN/FF12. -- Pres N  20:56, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and related to the above, Matusuno obliquely acknowledged Fortress in his twitter by saying that he had nothing to do with it's story as he had left SE by that point, and that he would have written bits of its backstory differently. -- Pres N  21:05, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I checked on the article and its still there. An editor reverted your merger. GamerPro64  02:39, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I undid the reversion and left a note. &mdash; Blue. 16:55, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. -- Pres N  20:51, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Chrono Titles Good Topic
While we're on the subject of topics, the Chrono Titles topic needs to have Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes GA'd and added by August 8. It's a Start right now, but it's honestly mostly just missing a plot section; the rest is pretty easily clean-upable. Has anyone here played it? Jonathan? I can ask Zeality for a plot summary, but he's pretty sporadic around WP these past few years. -- Pres N  18:25, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There's already a plot section in the article. Do you mean more content in the section? GamerPro64  19:49, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, right now it's just a few sentences of setting. Other than "faced a new threat emerging from the kingdom of Zeal" there's no actual plot. -- Pres N  20:51, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll try to get something going. I'm going to be active soon for an FA push for Anachronox. ZeaLitY [  Talk  -  Activity  ]  03:50, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If anyone wants to work on this, ref#2 has a plot summary that will do just nicely, no need to have played the game. -- Pres N  05:14, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have been meaning to help with the article, I'll try working with the plot later today. GamerPro64  16:07, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The page seems to be part of the beta rollout for the page assessment. Might check that out. 陣 内 Jinnai 17:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * So Zeality added a Plot and Character section to Crimson Echoes. I don't know if he was supposed to do that but at least there's more plot in the article. So should we do anything else before taking it to GAN? GamerPro64  17:54, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Lead's short, gameplay has an unsourced bit and should have at least a small summary of the original gameplay. The characters/plot sections should be explicitly sourced to ref 2. The concept art image thumbnail is a tad large. That's all I saw at a quick glance. -- Pres N  19:46, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

GamerPro64 got the article to GA, so I've gone ahead and put up the supp. nomination for the topic here. -- Pres N  20:19, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

List of Front Mission media FLC
List of Front Mission media has now been nominated at FLC. -- Pres N  18:46, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Passed! -- Pres N  02:03, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

FFXIII
Hi. I am planning to renominate the Final Fantasy XIII article for FA status and Characters of Final Fantasy XIII article for GA status. As for the Ultimania translations, I have tried to help translate, especially for the system designs. Before we nominate these articles for FA, what should we do to improve these articles? Thanks, Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:19, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I know this ain't commonplace, but I think that we should be covering E3 and preview reception. Yknow, give impressions of the game from its E3 appearance. Am I alone on this? - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 21:10, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * In general, I don't like including E3/other gaming conference hype UNLESS it was notably different from its release reception. For example, everyone and their mother loved Uncharted 2 at E3 and no surprise, it won a ton of year-end awards. Not interesting beyond a sentence mention or two. On the other hand, look at Scribblenauts' stealing of the E3 show compared to its lukewarm actual release. That's my take. Axem Titanium (talk) 14:23, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

I'd ask that you hold off a week- we haven't really added the Ultimania stuff at all. There's a few new sentences that say what's in the Ultimanias (needs to be sourced to the books!) but nothing from the actual interviews has been added. I'll buckle down on ocr-ing the interviews this week, then once they're added we can go. Remember, not using the Ultimanias as sources was literally the only reason it failed FAC last time. -- Pres N  18:08, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Reminder- if anyone would like to help, see Talk:Final Fantasy XIII/Ultimania translations - there are the original scans, ocr'd text, and summaries. Anything helps- better scans, ocr'ing things (I like Abbyy finereader), good translations, whatever. Anything you can do would be very appreciated! -- Pres N  19:40, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

We still need the battle, sound, and program interviews done from the Battle Ultimania, and possibly the art from the Scenario Ultimania, though I expect it to repeat things already said. All of the ones currently shown in the subpage are integrated into the article. I think we're fine without the VA interviews from the Omega and the character and cutscene from the Scenario Ult, though those would be great for the character article. I translated/integrated a bunch of stuff last week, but my FAC/GANs exploded this week so I haven't had time for translation. Whenever these are done, the article is good to go. -- Pres N  05:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'm officially sick of comparing Japanese characters to each other! I'm feeling good about the article now; the development section is large enough to be used as a club. I'll co-nom FF13 for FA again with you, SJones; you want to kick it off or should I? -- Pres N  19:23, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna start the nomination again as before. Let's do it! Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:49, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The FAC nomination can be found here. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:43, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * FA'd!! -- Pres N  04:16, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Square Enix article
Hey. Just a heads up. I edited the Square Enix article becuase it had a lot of speculation in the Development Teams section. Nomchan (talk) 10:51, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree. We're not in the business of listing every game each dev team worked on, especially unsourced. Axem Titanium (talk) 14:27, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Some attention towards Theatrythm?
A recently announced game Theatrhythm Final Fantasy has gotten my attention. I thought maybe we can fix it up a lil more presentable. its definitely on the right track though....but not completely. just something small to fix up.Bread Ninja (talk) 09:32, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Any decent copyeditors here?
I ask because I'd like you to take a look at Dragon Warrior and see if it can be cleaned up (and also Dragon Quest as the prose is somehow not "engaging" enough). 陣 内 Jinnai 04:06, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Pageview stats for July
Quick summary of our stats for the past month - please work on those popular stubs/starts! -- Pres N  02:03, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Most popular stub: Tetsuya Takahashi
 * Most popular start: Final Fantasy XIII-2 (highest non-FF: Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance)
 * Most popular improvable start: Akira Toriyama
 * Most popular C: Final Fantasy Versus XIII (highest non-FF: Kingdom Hearts III)
 * Most popular improvable C: Final Fantasy XIV (highest non-FF: Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep)
 * Most popular B: Square Enix
 * Most popular GA: Final Fantasy XIII (highest non-FF: Dragon Quest)
 * Most popular FA: Final Fantasy (highest non-FF: Kingdom Hearts)
 * Most popular List: List of Square Enix games (highest non-FF: List of characters in Chrono Trigger)
 * Most popular FL: List of Final Fantasy video games (highest non-FF: List of Kingdom Hearts media)

And the flip side:
 * Least popular stub: Kaoru Moriyama
 * Least popular start: Hills and Rivers Remain
 * Least popular C: Gameplay of Dragon Quest
 * Least popular B: Ryuji Sasai
 * Least popular GA: Music of the Front Mission series
 * Least popular FA: Radical Dreamers: Nusumenai Hōseki
 * Least popular List: List of DS:Style products
 * Least popular FL: List of Final Fantasy compilation albums

Request for source
Hey, does anyone know of an RS that says that TOSE made Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions? It seems to be a commonly accepted fact, but I can't find a real source. I need it for List of Square Enix games. Thanks! -- Pres N  05:17, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I just had to mark it as by SE. List of Square Enix games is now at FLC. -- Pres N  20:52, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * FL'd. -- Pres N  05:41, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Good job! Axem Titanium (talk) 02:52, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Localization of Square Enix video games
Odd question, but- why does this article exist? It's a combination of how localization works at any company, and specific examples that should be in the video game articles themselves (and are, as far as I see). This is the only article of its type on WP, and I'm unsure of why that is. Does anyone else have any opinions about it? -- Pres N  04:38, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, while it's unorthodox, I think it's a valuable article to have, at least to refer to. In fact, Richard Honeywood is notable for having created the first "localization department" in the video game industry, which has to count for something (whereas before, it would just be one programmer hand-coding the translations). There's a rather extensive interview at 8-4 Play which corroborates this. Depending on how much it can (or can't) be expanded, we might look into trimming the info on vg localization in general and merge to the main SE article. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:49, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * agreed. It seems to have sources, possibly if there's enough info, there could be more of a history section relating to changes within the branches.Bread Ninja (talk) 05:02, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Revenue
According to the source (3) the revenue is not 633 Million Yen. 633 Million Yen are the Total extraordinary gain, something completely different. Net Sales are 125,271 Million Yen! 193.22.29.88 (talk) 13:57, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * What article are you talking about? -- Pres N  18:47, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Anyplace beyond SEMO to go for JRPG music reviews?
I think if the indication from Dragon Warrior and the raw list of reviews at Square Enix Music Online are anything to go by, I could possibly build a discography article similar to Music of the Final Fantasy series. However, I'm not sure where to look (other than Oricon chart listing) as unlike FF, DQ has only recently become more well-known. Any suggestions? 陣 内 Jinnai 00:03, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * there was a site that focused on video game music, but i think it was focusing more on music games. I think it'll be hard to find for the ones that didn't release in english.Bread Ninja (talk) 00:30, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * RPGFan has tons of reviews for RPGs, they'll have stuff on DQ - . Original Sound Version might have reviews, though certainly not systematic ones like SEMO and RPGFan- they're more of a news and interviews site that does reviews sometimes. Good luck, every time I think about working on DQ music articles I look at how there's about 40 albums and give up. A single overview article a la Music of FF might be feasible, though. -- Pres  N  06:16, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and it's not an RS, but you can use the VGMDB to get track names in english/japanese easily and see if there's any albums you miss- the major VGMusic sites both use and pull from VGMDB, so it's pretty accurate, and it can quickly tell you if an album is bootleg or a promo disc or what. -- Pres  N  06:26, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Pageview stats for August
Quick summary of our stats for the past month - please work on those popular stubs/starts! Some changes this month. I'm working on List of Square games, if anyone wants to jump on that- the most popular list-class. Please help out Takahashi- the external link lists several interviews with him that could be used. -- Pres N  03:53, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Format: Most popular (most popular non-FF if applicable) - Least popular


 * Stub: Tetsuya Takahashi - Kaoru Moriyama
 * Start: Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance) - Brave Shot
 * C: Final Fantasy Versus XIII (Kingdom Hearts III) - Gameplay of Dragon Quest
 * B: Square Enix - Ryuji Sasai
 * GA: Final Fantasy VII (Dragon Quest) - Music of the Front Mission series
 * FA: Final Fantasy (Kingdom Hearts) - Radical Dreamers: Nusumenai Hōseki
 * List: List of Square games - List of DS:Style products
 * FL: List of Final Fantasy media (List of Kingdom Hearts media) - List of Final Fantasy compilation albums

Another TOSE question
Hey, does anyone know of any good sources about Tose at all? In List of Square video games I'm looking for cites that they ported FF1 and 2 to the WonderswanColor and the PlayStation, and FF4 to the PlayStation. Thanks! -- Pres N  08:13, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * FLC'd, just marked them as Square for now. -- Pres N  22:49, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * 1UP - Tose: Gaming's Dirty Little Secret


 * Gamasutra - Tose: Game Development Ninjas
 * Gamasutra - Tose: Game Development Ninjas II - Battle for the West --Mika1h (talk) 00:42, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Saw those; the 1up had FF4 but the FF1s and 2s aren't in any of them. -- Pres N  04:09, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The 1up article says "[SE gave] Tose the task of porting its Final Fantasy games to the PS1 and GBA (including the recent Final Fantasy IV and upcoming Final Fantasy VI)", which presumably refers to all of the FFs for PS1, including Origins. Doesn't say anything about Wonderswan though. Axem Titanium (talk) 08:41, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Gamasutra article says that they developed "a world famous RPG" for the Wonderswan. --Mika1h (talk) 17:31, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Dragon Warrior
Jinnai and Muzemike have brought Dragon Warrior back to FAC for another round, so please help them out and review it! -- Pres N  22:17, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Possibly valuable source
http://www.square-enix.co.jp/dissidia_012/ffhc/ A Final Fantasy "Historical Compendium". Might have some interesting info if you know Japanese? Axem Titanium (talk) 22:54, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Portopia Renzoku Satsujin Jiken requested move
I've requested a move for this to The Portopia Serial Murder Case per reasons given there. Since it's not the official translation, I've put it up as a potentially controversial move. move. ∞ 陣  内  Jinnai  15:39, 22 September 2011 (UTC)