Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sumo/Archive 6 2020 - 2021

Takanosho
Just a heads-up that I have created Takanoshō Nobuaki, as he has four makuuchi basho now. Needs an image. P-K3 (talk) 09:09, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

tachimochi carries a tachi, not a katana
The sword link in the tachimochi article goes to the katana entry, but he's actually carrying a tachi as the name would make you expect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.251.162.57 (talk) 16:04, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Discord
Hey all, I hope everyone is safe and healthy. My name is HickoryOughtShirt?4 and I'm a member of WikiProject Ice Hockey. I was wondering if there was any interest in starting a WikiProject Sports channel on Discord? There's quite a few of us who are interested in sports, and I think it would be a good idea to help the WikiProject recruit more members. You guys can join us through here.HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 00:04, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Sumo names
I'm new to editing sumo articles and found no Manual of Style for them aside from WikiProject_Sumo which is very bare bones. I started editing the first sentences of articles on sumo wrestlers which give the shikona and birth names to make them all consistent but came into a problem. The title of sumo wrestler articles use their shikona ring names in the order of surname first then given name. To be consistent do we also list their birth names in this same order?

Because of this order we should also have a note at the top of each article informing the reader like Template:Japanese name. But that refers to surnames as "family names" which in the case of shikona wouldn't be a correct term. Someone could add the option of also listing "stage names" like Template:Korean name has. But note that specific template lists the family name first then the stage name, which is the reverse of how sumo articles present them. Thoughts? Xfansd (talk) 22:23, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Xfansd, welcome to WP:SUMO! We’re quite a small group here so always great to have new people. The guideline we follow is Manual_of_Style/Japan-related_articles - basically we treat shikona as pseudonyms so use the traditional Japanese and not the Western order. For their real name in the lead section we use the Western order. A problem arises however, when a rikishi continues to use his real name as his shikona. Should that be treated as a pseudonym? For consistency in our rikishi articles we have said yes - Shōdai Naoya for example, not Naoya Shōdai. But I don’t usually fight it if someone moves an article like that to the Western order, as when Hiroshi Wajima was featured on the Main Page’s Recent Deaths section. The form I always use in a first sentence is eg. Takanoshō Nobuaki (born 14 November 1994 as Nobuaki Ishii). P-K3 (talk) 23:43, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * What would be the downside to using Japanese order for both names? I was hoping we could expand WikiProject_Sumo to give the project a proper MOS and make all articles consistent on this subject. Japanese order is acceptable under WP:MOS-JA and WP:COMMONNAME, if it is the common naming order seen in English sources. So we could fight instances of moves like Hiroshi Wajima. But if our argument as a project is to use Japanese order for the shikona then switch to Western for the birth names, I don't think we'd be able to garner support. I see the JSA's English website does that switching tho. I think I'll just continue the switch between the two, but add a custom Template:Hatnote like In this Japanese shikona name, the surname is Kotoshōgiku. where appropriate. This doesn't explain the birth name order to the reader but at least the more important article title will be explained. Xfansd (talk) 01:28, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression that for Japanese people born after the Meiji era the Western name order should be used. That’s the only downside. I would very much appreciate the hatnote as the current one that talks about a family name isn’t really applicable for shikona. Thanks. P-K3 (talk) 12:21, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The high profile examples of using Japanese order for modern people that I am aware of are Utada Hikaru and Koda Kumi. I think it has to do with WP:COMMONNAME being a policy and thus supersedes WP:MOS-JA which is only a MOS. Although, reading WP:MOS-JA again it does seem to have been altered from the last time I read it and now says to use the order that is most widely used in references. Nowhere does it say straight up to use Western order like it used to. (A little conversation on its talkpage here seems to confirm that.) Unfortunately every page move request is subject to whichever editors choose to take part. Xfansd (talk) 17:06, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * You’re right, the guideline has been updated since I last read it. Good to know - thanks for pointing that out. P-K3 (talk) 18:43, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Hoshoryu is articled
I decided Hoshoryu deserved an article. Enjoy FourTildes (talk) 02:32, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm sure he will be receiving a fair amount of attention - I'll look out for sources. P-K3 (talk) 11:28, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Request for Comment on SSN at WP:Notability (sports)
There is a discussion on SSN (sport specific guidelines) at RFC on Notability (sports) policy and reliability issues. Feel free to go there and post your comments. Cassiopeia(talk) 01:06, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Infobox heya
I've been having a discussion with User:Leveni about improving the heya pages, and it's become clear that a heya infobox is needed. It has been listed at WP:SUMO as needing to be created for a long time now. I am not that technically proficient at wiki-markup but am willing to have a go, probably in my sandbox, by adapting one from another sports project as suggested by Leveni. Any assistance would be appreciated though! -- P-K3 (talk) 13:06, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Is this wikiproject still active?
I was wondering if anyone is still working on the Wikiproject Sumo. If so, I will join. Rfkatz2005 (talk) 17:13, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Rf, thanks for the discussion, right now a few of us are talking about putting an infobox on all the Stable pages. If you have any ideas on content layout etc everyone would be happy to listen. Pawnkingthree is going to give the programming a go, if you have done an infobox before maybe contacting Pawnkingthree would be a help. Thanks for your time.Leveni (talk) 01:57, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I will add the information I can to pages regarding Sumo.Rfkatz2005 (talk) 16:41, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Rfkatz2005, yes there are a few of us around who maintain the articles and keep an eye on this page. You're very welcome to join in. I'd be interested to know if there are any areas in particular that you wanted to work on. P-K3 (talk) 02:11, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I will add the information I can to pages regarding Sumo. Rfkatz2005 (talk) 16:41, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi all, I was experimenting with info boxes and realized you have to use a template. The link to all the ready made templates is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_infoboxes. There is an infobox template for sumo wrestlers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_sumo_wrestler originally made by YutakaNinja, PK3 and 4T you guys have edited it, but I do wonder how we install an original Template for Sumo Stables. Anyway, I thought I'd just put the links there for everyone to have a look at. Leveni (talk) 09:59, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

active sumo list sorting
A while back it seems, a well meaning user came in and changed the ranking system with one that uses different wiki markup. No one noticed at the time, but when I went in today and updated the ranks and then checked the sorting, they were all scrambled. I had already entered all the new ranks before I realized this new sorting protocol isn't working. For now the ranks are all updated but the sorting won't work (and hasn't worked since they were changed on April 8th). I have sent a message to the editor who made changes asking for assistance. FourTildes (talk) 02:35, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

EDIT: I figured out to make the ranks sort correctly by reduplicating sorting info inside the markup that previously wasn't necessary in my version. So it is working now. In the end I went with adapting the changes made by the well meaning user as it more directly does what my original system did. FourTildes (talk) 02:57, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Amateur Sumo Article
Under the list of articles needed it says an article on amateur sumo should be created. I want to make one, but I was wondering if anyone is willing to lend a hand? I am not the best at writing articles, & I was hoping we could make lengthy one instead of a stub. Rfkatz2005 (talk) 03:22, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Rfkatz2005 that's certainly an article I've been intending to work on at some point, so if you want to get the ball rolling I'd be happy to help out (although I am a bit busy at the moment). We could use the existing section at Sumo as a starting point, or just begin again from scratch. I'm sure there are sources in English such as John Gunning's Japan Times columns that could be used.-- P-K3 (talk) 14:02, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

(talk) Sounds great! I will get started on one today, I will use the existing section as a starting point Rfkatz2005 (talk) 16:14, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

talk I have created the draft, most of it is a direct copy of the exsiting section. This is the page: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=Template%3AAfc+preload%2Fdraft&editintro=Template%3AAfC+draft+editintro&title=Draft:Amateur_Sumo&create=Create+new+article+draft     Rfkatz2005 (talk) 18:59, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Should we change the focus part of the Sumo article from grappling to clinch fighting?
On the Sumo page, it states the focus of the sport is grappling, which I think is fair. However, I think it would be more appropiate to list the focus as clinch fighting, since grappling often refers to ground fighting (which does not happen in Sumo) & clinch fighting is when two people are holding on to one another while standing up (which does happen in Sumo). In most Sumo matches, the winner often traps their opponent in a clinch before puching them out of the ring. I am aware that clinch fighting is a type of grappling, but since Clinch fighting does have its own aritcle, I thin it wuld be fair to change the foucs. Does anyone object or agree? Or have a reason why it sould be left the way it is? Rfkatz2005 (talk) 16:17, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * As sumo is mentioned in the clinch fighting article, but not the grappling article, that seems a fair change as it's more precise.-- P-K3 (talk) 16:27, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * @P-K3 I changed it, & i would just like to say I agree.

Cannabis and sports
New stub: Cannabis and sports. Any project members care to help expand? --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:59, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll take a look. You may find 2008 sumo cannabis scandal useful. Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:48, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * , Thank you! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:50, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Terunofuji for Main Page
I'm going to nominate Terunofuji at In the news once his promotion is confirmed. A yokozuna promotion is automatically notable by ITN rules, but help with referencing would be appreciated as his article has to be up to scratch quality wise. Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:03, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Kagamio
Kagamio has gone banzuke-gai for Aki. Not sure how to represent this on his career record box.  Tigerboy1966  06:32, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Tigerboy1966 there is a BANZUKEGAI parameter, I've added it. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:35, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Proposed template change
I have been thinking things may get confusing in the future with the lack of distinction between an ordinary kyujo and a mandated COVID absence in the cereer record templates. Currently, "kyujo" is being used and reports the same, "Sat out due to injury", even though the consequences are quite different. I would suggest that, just as for those suspended, it is worth having a specific category for these types of infectious disease-related whole-basho absences, something like "{Basho|quar" = "Sat out due to quarantine" or even just "Quarantined". (Were this proposal accepted, I would be willing to make all of the changes to the individual wrestler pages - there are still not too many - but wouldn't know where to start on editing the template itself.) Agricolae (talk) 22:11, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I created the QUARANTINED parameter, which displays as "sat out due to COVID rules." I changed Hakuho's September 2021 record, see what you think. The wording can be tweaked of course. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It's better than "Sat out due to injury". The only thing for me is that "Sat out due to COVID rules" adds an extra line to the text to the box which looks a bit untidy. But I suppose if you trimmed it to "Sat out due to COVID" it would be ambiguous. Would "Sat out: COVID rules" work?.  Tigerboy1966  23:14, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, it's not showing as an extra line for me. I used "due to" to be consistent with the kyujo one but I'm ok with it being omitted. Pawnkingthree (talk) 00:01, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and changed them all over. Precise wording can be tweaked as preferred, I have no particular preference (not an extra line for me either but I am using a wide-screen). Agricolae (talk) 14:44, 15 September 2021 (UTC)