Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Systems/Archive 6

This archive gives an overview of news about the WikiProject Systems.

Feb 15, 2008: 2004--present: Wikipedia on Systems Science

 * From: http://www.isss.org/world/en/connections/2004-present-wikipedia-on-systems-sciences

Independently of the ISSS, there has been movement on Wikipedia on systems sciences since 2004.

Notable on the Wikipedia entry on systems science is [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? activity] by Mdd and Heiner Benking (who has been an active member of the ISSS). It's interesting that there's a separate Wikipedia entry on systemics, and the entry on General Systems Theory (since 2003) is redirected to Systems Theory.

There's a longer entry as the Wikipedia list of systems scientists. (The entry on systems scientists redirected to the entry on systems science, which suggests that science is what people do!)

There's a Wikipedia page on the International Society for the Systems Sciences. (The president needs to be updated!)

Additionally, there's a Wikipedia page on the International Federation for Systems Research.

The Wikipedia entry on systems science organisations (note science is plural and organisation is spelled in the British style) lists only a few research organizations, and otherwise tries to break up the world geographically.

2007 : Definition of systems theory cited

 * From: http://www.linking.to/PSY8412/Systems_Thought_in_Psychology.doc.

Systems Thought in Psychology by George Edw. Seymour, 2007 “Systems theory is an interdisciplinary field of science. It studies the nature of complex systems in nature, society, and science. More specifically, it is a framework by which one can analyze and/or describe any group of objects that work in concert to produce some result. This could be a single organism, any organization or society, or any electro-mechanical or informational artifact….Systems theory as an area of study specifically developed following the World Wars from the work of Ludwig von Bertalanffy, Anatol Rapoport, Kenneth E. Boulding,…C. West Churchman and others in the 1950s.” 1

The modern contributions to systems theory can be traced to 1931 when Ludwig von Bertalanffy, a biologist at the University of Chicago (see photo on the right), presented his General Systems Theory. Bertalanffy argued cogently for “open systems” as opposed to the more traditional closed systems associated with classical science. Another important early contributor was Norbert Wiener who published Cybernetics or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine in 1948. Both the concepts of control and feedback are central to psychology....

Endnotes:
 * 1)  Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_theory
 * 2) “There are two common classes of control systems, with many variations and combinations: logic or sequential controls, and feedback or linear controls.”  Examples of a logic control include “elevators, washing machines and other systems with interrelated stop-go operations.”  An example of feedback includes the thermostat in your residence of this school.  It is set for a desired temperature, and the system turns itself off and on to correct for “error” in room temperature.  That is called negative feedback and is considered essential for all systems.  See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_system

Oct 29, 2007: INCOSE takes a bashing from writers on Wikipedia.

 * From: http://www.systemsengineeringtoday.com/ Written by Administrator,

Oct 29, 2007 at 07:26 PM

INCOSE is taking a lot of heat from the editors over on Wikipedia. There seems to be complaints about the motivation of the organization and their goals. I tend to agree with the editors in that INCOSE is becoming a country club of non doers. One of the reasons i started this site was to disiminate Systems Engineering information freely with out the need to be card carring member of a special club. INCOSE has become so bold as to create their own SE Ceritification. What is it worth for a person in SE to have that ceritification? About $500 if you’re a non member. The following is from the Wikipedia talk page on Systems Engineering:

What INCOSE writes about SE is citable...?? Only one look at WP:SOURCES clears that up: Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy... INCOSE is a society for the promotion of SE. No matter how much I support that, is far from a independent third party source. It may be reliable what they say, it better be. But their truth is motivated by their own goals. This is becoming more clear to me. I have worked on more then 100 related articles the past months and in now article a society is that present as here. The fact that one third of the SE history is about INCOSE is just as questionable. We should do something about it. - Mdd 18:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC) No argument here. As you yourself have said many times: "if you don't like it, feel free to rewrite it". That said, what INCOSE says about SE is citable, so long it's made clear that what is being written is the opinion of INCOSE rather than an undisputed fact. Much as I disagree with some of the things that INCOSE has to say about SE, the fact remains that they are an SE society, and their views are relevant to this article.--Allan McInnes (talk) 01:55, 5 October 2007 (UTC) As a start I began writing about SE, in case you didn't notice: * Harold Chestnut - Harry H. Goode - Arthur David Hall III - Derek Hitchins - George Klir In time I wnat to start rewriting parts of this article, but I'm still investigating SE as I also express in next talk items. - Mdd 12:18, 5 October 2007 (UTC) Last Updated ( Oct 30, 2007 at 06:30 AM )