Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tamil civilization/Archive 1

Good article review & good article
How about adding a section on making Tamil realted articles good articles as well as did you know articles. All this is importantTaprobanus (talk) 14:39, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Name question
How about a name like Wikiproject Tamil instead of Tamil civilization ? We can say that anything do with Tamil people, Tamil language, Tamil civilization etc is covered by that wiki project ? Taprobanus (talk) 22:06, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Taprobanus, your idea sounds good, but this will not solve the problem. Sadly there are Tamil haters out there who are trying to say that we are not a civilization, which is like saying that we are not human. Saying there is no Tamil civilization (which is now in India and Sri Lanka) is like saying there is no Mayan civilization (which is now in Southern Mexico and Guatemala). Wiki Raja (talk) 23:30, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Bro, I don’t fall for us versus them trap. Once you fall for it, it is might difficult to get out of it. Let’s see what the objection from their side is? Tamil civilization may or may not be a stand alone entity. It is a by product of over all Indian Civilization but with it unique attributes. Finer points of it are still debated by anthropologist, linguists and historian let alone part time wikipedians. I am not belittling Wikipedia but I have come to accept that it takes a long time for Wikipedia to achieve that kind of  sophistication in many articles.


 * My 2 cents, Indic civilization affected not just South Asia but also South East Asia. But no one will object to having a template on Malay civilization because it has come to have it is own identity although the impetus was Indic traders and others initially. Tamil civilization as such could be questioned because Tamils are not a sovereign people but an integral part of India and Sri Lanka. So if we want to have a Wiki project on Tamil civilization and add that label number of articles you can expect people to object and rightfully so. So the best way out of it is to have a wiki project on Tamil itself . Tamil can be related to language or ethnic identity. It can also mean a civilization or set of religious cultural and social values derived from Jaininsm, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Christianity and even modern humanistic secularism that is all synthesized. It is better to have a broader scope to this wiki project rather than restrict it to one aspect of it.


 * Good example, look at this. The article says that Iyengars Diaspora in Karnataka may not consider itself ethnically Tamil but has preserved Tamil language and contributed to it for over 800 years but elite Vellala immigrants to Malaysia and Singapore don’t even speak Tamil within 3 generations although they consider them Tamils (Vellalas more than Tamils). Similarly Sri Lankan Muslims don’t consider them Tamils but they speak Tamil in the midst of the most racially charged (that is anti-Tamil sentiments) areas such as Galle & Matara for 1000 years. So to club it all together as Tamil civilization is to miss the boat, but we can class it as Tamil with less objections. Taprobanus (talk) 14:13, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Just a nitpick: it's simplistic - and incorrect - to say that Karnataka Iyengars don't consider themselves to be Tamil (some do, some don't), and on a quick read even the Tamilnet article doesn't say that. But otherwise, I think you've presented the case for a Wikiproject on Tamil very well, and I agree that calling it "Tamil" is better than calling it "Tamil civilisation".  It'd be hard to, for example, explain in what sense Srinivasa Ramanujan - or, for that matter, someone like Ananda Coomaraswamy who very clearly saw himself as being part of a pan-Indian culture - was part of a "Tamil civilisation".  But they'd both fit very well into a wikiproject which dealt with all things Tamil. -- Arvind (talk) 13:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with that. However, I am sure that some people will be crushed by all the people who will be included into this wikiproject if a name change was done. Some sense of reality may kick in once they find the fame of India is from ..... Watchdogb (talk) 14:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * So you agree to a name change, we should suggest it to all members and see what they think ? Taprobanus (talk) 15:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Definitely agree to name change. Anything that would get rid of friction between users is welcome by me. Watchdogb (talk) 16:05, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree to name change proposal as per Taprobanus.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 15:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't find anything wrong with the name. Moreover, a name change would make people think that this Wikiproject is only about the Tamil language and does not cover Tamil culture.- Ravichandar 18:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Tamil can stand for people, language, culture, history, Diaspora issues, politics if we define the project that way. Tamil civilization is restrictive and provocative. For example Veerapan, he is considered to be both a common bandit by many as well as a freedom fighter by a few. I just don’t understand, how that article can be under Tamil civilization, I don’t underatnd. But can it come under Tamil project ? sure why not. Similarly Elara is supposed to be Tamil King of Sri Lanka. People have objections to consider it under the Tamil civilization banner but who can question if we bring it under Tamil wiki project ? These are some arguments for renaming it as Wikiproject Tamil.Taprobanus (talk) 20:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * But Wikiproject Tamil could easily be mistaken by an onlooker for a project on Tamil language. I think Wikiproject Tamil Heritage or something like that will be good. In my view, however, though the content of the project page has some POV (like mentioning only Paraiyan, Pulaiyan and Pallan in ethnic groups leaving aside others; and the list of articles itself I feel which concentrates more on Sri Lankan Tamils and Tamil freedom fighters than people from the mainland), the name of the project itself, I feel, is not POV. - Ravichandar 04:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * That is a beautiful suggestion, wikiproject Tamil heritage. I like it, I think it will be neutral and not attract objections Taprobanus (talk) 13:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanx.Anyhow dats just a suggestion.I feel that naming the Wikiproject Tamil Heritage would make it a POV- Ravichandar 14:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I kind of like "wikiproject Tamil heritage", I would support that. I wouldn't mind though keeping it "tamil civilization". I can understand some of the arguments against tamil "civilization" for some of the possible exclusion, but I don't think recognizing it would necessarily exclude it from the scope of "indic" civilization. Also I think by the use of the term would be more encompassing include many different areas, tamil speaking or not. "tamil civilization" or "tamil heritage" either one works for me.--Kathanar (talk) 15:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I will contact Wikiraja and ask his opinion too with this change request Taprobanus (talk) 15:22, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I did not get a positive feedback, so I am abandoning my effort to rename it. Just for caution, this wiki project will run into rough weather just because of the name Taprobanus (talk) 16:56, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Needs help
i do not know if i am supposed to ask it in this page,

Sorry if its the case.(kindly suggest me where to ask for assistance)

But, I've run aground, I'm creating an article which is almost complete and i need some help in adding Tamil Texts and indic transliterations for the terms. If possible some pronunciation guide too.if thast accomplished, it can be moved to article space.

the article is regarding the Navy of the Chola empire. you can have a look at it and User:Everdawn/Sandboxes/Chola_navy

I think the coverage is fine, if you have any suggestions and or corrections please discuss in the talk page of the article as i can follow it.

Thanks Swraj (talk) 18:28, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion
The 'Articles' section of the project is deficient. While Elara and Mahendravarman I are included as kings Narasimhavarman I, Senguttuvan and Karikala are not included. As far as poets are concerned, again only three are mentioned leaving aside numerous Tamil poets of good quality.- Ravichandar 19:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * As far adding articles, be my guest :))) Taprobanus (talk) 20:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Gounder article
Friends, the article on Gounders is in a pretty bad shape. It has been the subject of edit wars. The previous editor had included a lot of POV and someone has responded by blanking the article completely. I think it will be better if we take the responsibility of maintaining the article - Ravichandar 04:55, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * On close observation, it is obvious that most of the edits to the article have been from anonymous IPs. We should also do something to tackle these anonymous IPs- Ravichandar 04:58, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The guy who does most of it has been blocked but he will do it with an IP anyway. Do we really want to care about Caste related articles? Because they are seem to be really unstable. That's why I am peeling off Sri lanka realted castes from India related because at lest they are somewhat stable. See Vanniar vs Vanniar (Chieftain), one is stable andthe other is impossible to keep tidy. It is such an uphill battle. 18:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

merge / title
This project together with WikiProject Dravidian civilizations should be merged under the name of "Dravidology" or similar (e.g. "Dravidian studies"). Let's keep Wikiproject scopes oriented towards maximum usefulness. dab (𒁳) 10:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed Taprobanus (talk) 11:58, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I would rather leave this alone or change the title to Tamil studies or Tamil than to merge with Dravidian Studies. I had enough of this submersion of Tamil with this mythical Dravidian concept. We finally have something going properly, I dont want to mess it up. Taprobanus (talk) 12:17, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose merge per Taprobanus. Tamil and Dravidian are two different concepts. Watchdogb (talk) 21:48, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Chola
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Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Tamil civilization
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Iyer
I've nominated the article Iyer for a peer review. Do drop by and participate in the review process. Thanks- Ravichandar My coffee shop 11:20, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Sri Lankan Tamil people
It has been nominated for FA review.Taprobanus (talk) 12:29, 21 September 2008 (UTC)